Hi Gang,
Hope you don't mind me asking for a bit of help with a little research project I've got cooking.
I'm looking for examples of small towns or villages in Ireland (north or south) with a public square, i.e. a place that looks like it was originally designed as an open marketplace. If it has a historic town square that's been given over to car parking I'll take that too.
Examples of what I'm looking for:
- Donegal Town has a triangular "square" that's surrounded by traffic, but still a space that could in theory be used for public gatherings.
- Boyle in Co. Roscommon has what seems to be a historic town square that's been mostly given over to car parking.
Examples of what I'm not looking for:
- Lack Co. Fermanagh - just a straight road through it and nowhere to gather with your mates.
- Dromahair Co. Leitrim - Seems like a nice village, but again I'm not aware of a clearly defined "public space" that's designed for just being there as a pedestrian, or could be utilised as such.
If you can find a place with <2000 people in it that has a public square, that'd be great. I'm struggling to find any.
And if you can't think of any, let me know because I'd find that helpful too.
Thanks!
Cross and Newtown in Armagh off top of my head.
Apologies, may both have too high of populations.
Bessbrook Co Armagh
The Moy in thon other county.
Hilltown in Down.
This is very helpful. Thanks, lads. Seems like the villages have to get bigger before a public square appears. I'm struggling to find one in any place with less than 1000 people in it.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2023, 11:29:57 PM
This is very helpful. Thanks, lads. Seems like the villages have to get bigger before a public square appears. I'm struggling to find one in any place with less than 1000 people in it.
Yeah you'd imagine squares historically would have been in market towns which would naturally grow into larger populations
Rostrevor Co Down
Lisdoonvarna?
Killough Co Down
Ballinascreen/Draperstown Co. Derry
http://www.historicalballinrobe.com/page_id__36.aspx
Ballinrobe (Cornmarket)
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on March 14, 2023, 11:29:57 PM
This is very helpful. Thanks, lads. Seems like the villages have to get bigger before a public square appears. I'm struggling to find one in any place with less than 1000 people in it.
Did these places have 1000 people when the square was established? Cross had a population of 828 in 1901. A few housing estates built in the last 50 odd years have little relevance to the original settlement when markets took place.
Makes sense that they'd have to be a certain size to have a square.
The Diamond in Donegal Town was traditionally used as a fair ground before the mart was built in the town. It's literally where the three main roads, south to Ballyshannon, northeast to Ballybofey and west to Killybegs, intersected. Basically a logical, central location for south Donegal commerce.
Supposedly the Diamond was originally laid out by Basil Brooke not long after the Flight of the Earls (he took over the O'Donnell castle), so it's been around in some form for 400 years.
Diamonds are a very planter thing.
Lisnarick in Fermanagh
Raphoe
Strabane- Abercorn Square was likely a gathering point and was located beside the old cattle market and just 100 yards from the old train station.
Athenry in Galway. Castlerea in Roscommon. Claremorris in Mayo.
Generally planned towns would have a square. Ulster has loads because of the Plantation. Eg Maghera, Magherafelt.
Planned towns would be associated with landlords elsewhere. There isn't much left of the landlord heritage bar car parking.
.
Every village in Tyrone has folk with big square heads who are often seen out in public, not sure if that excatly fits the criteria though ???
Best example I can think off is Castlepollard, Co Westmeath. Has a big green with 4 roads surrounding, pretty sure it hosted a market fair back in the day.
Kilrea?
Castlefinn, Castlederg
Quote from: armaghniac on March 15, 2023, 01:03:23 AM
Diamonds are a very planter thing.
You would have needed space for hangings and Redcoat visits to impress the Croppies, as a precursor to the B Specials and the Paratroopers.
In Co. Laois, Portlaoise, Mountmellick, Abbeyleix, and Stradbally all have market squares. The latter two were towns associated w/ a large estate. Timahoe also has a village green. I think that's still officially owned by the 'big house', too. Not sure on the populations of Stradbally and Abbeyleix, but Timahoe is pretty small - though the public space is a 'green', rather than a 'square', per se.
Edit: Just looked up Abbeyleix and Stradbally's populations, and they are, indeed, less than 2,000 according to 2016 census.
Pomeroy Tyrone.
Actually Castlederg might work as well with the Diamond.
Malin Village, Co Donegal. It's a triangle, but a beautifully kept open green in the centre of the village.
Portglenone?
Portaferry has a square.
Was always the spot for a bit of post hostelry boxing back in the day by the young turks.
Dungannon
Has Sneem in Kerry not got a wee square/grass area in the middle of it?
Does it count if the square (triangle) is mostly grassed?
Redhills, County Cavan
2006 Population = 420
The 1992 film, The Playboys, was filmed on location in the village, as was the 1995 film The Run of the Country
Kenmare
https://townmaps.ie/kenmare-town-map/
Ballaghaderreen, Co. Roscommon
It is actually called "The Square".
Quote from: weareros on March 15, 2023, 12:13:35 PM
Ballaghaderreen, Co. Roscommon
It is actually called "The Square".
The Square is probably in Mayo.
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2023, 12:16:42 PM
Quote from: weareros on March 15, 2023, 12:13:35 PM
Ballaghaderreen, Co. Roscommon
It is actually called "The Square".
The Square is probably in Mayo.
The house of the man - Dillon House - who moved the town from Mayo to Roscommon over water rates faces The Square.
https://www.rte.ie/archives/2015/0119/673718-dillon-house-ballaghadreen/
https://townmaps.ie/ has maps for loads of towns
Quote from: JoG2 on March 15, 2023, 07:59:36 AM
Every village in Tyrone has folk with big square heads who are often seen out in public, not sure if that excatly fits the criteria though ???
I laughed out loud at that. Very witty.
Quote from: Itchy on March 15, 2023, 08:17:49 AM
Best example I can think off is Castlepollard, Co Westmeath. Has a big green with 4 roads surrounding, pretty sure it hosted a market fair back in the day.
Yes once a month I believe until the late 60's. Population is only about 1100
Poyntzpass has a square of sorts. Old photos show the centre of the village heaving with cattle on market day.
Quote from: Orior on March 15, 2023, 05:09:16 PM
Poyntzpass has a square of sorts. Old photos show the centre of the village heaving with cattle on market day.
What happened the marsh between Lough Neagh and Carlingford Lough ?
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2023, 06:04:48 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 15, 2023, 05:09:16 PM
Poyntzpass has a square of sorts. Old photos show the centre of the village heaving with cattle on market day.
What happened the marsh between Lough Neagh and Carlingford Lough ?
Do you mean Páirc Esler?
Quote from: WeeDonns on March 15, 2023, 11:04:15 AM
Does it count if the square (triangle) is mostly grassed?
Redhills, County Cavan
2006 Population = 420
The 1992 film, The Playboys, was filmed on location in the village, as was the 1995 film The Run of the Country
Yep, that counts. Some sort of public space is all I'm looking for.
Thanks everyone, I think I have enough now but you're welcome to keep on adding and discussing here.
Quote from: armaghniac on March 15, 2023, 06:21:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2023, 06:04:48 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 15, 2023, 05:09:16 PM
Poyntzpass has a square of sorts. Old photos show the centre of the village heaving with cattle on market day.
What happened the marsh between Lough Neagh and Carlingford Lough ?
Do you mean Páirc Esler?
lol.
The Glyn bog has significantly dried up over the past 300-400 years. It still exists, with a lot of meadow land which is prone to flooding.
Rathfriland and Warrenpoint Co.Down.
Kilrea, Co. Derry
Quote from: Orior on March 15, 2023, 05:09:16 PM
Poyntzpass has a square of sorts. Old photos show the centre of the village heaving with cattle on market day.
It also has a couple of interesting mini roundabouts
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 15, 2023, 09:38:32 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 15, 2023, 05:09:16 PM
Poyntzpass has a square of sorts. Old photos show the centre of the village heaving with cattle on market day.
It also has a couple of interesting mini roundabouts
Modelled on Craigavon, lol
PS. The mini-roundabouts are really shite.
Quote from: Orior on March 15, 2023, 06:44:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on March 15, 2023, 06:21:13 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2023, 06:04:48 PM
Quote from: Orior on March 15, 2023, 05:09:16 PM
Poyntzpass has a square of sorts. Old photos show the centre of the village heaving with cattle on market day.
What happened the marsh between Lough Neagh and Carlingford Lough ?
Do you mean Páirc Esler?
lol.
The Glyn bog has significantly dried up over the past 300-400 years. It still exists, with a lot of meadow land which is prone to flooding.
GRMA
Monaghan Town has The Diamond , Church Square , Old Cross Square and a bit of a triangle type of a square at the Market House
There's a magic roundabout just down the road from the Market house on Park Street too , beside the wee chapel.
Were the squares used for executions in Ulster ?
Redhlls - Co. Cavan
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2023, 11:32:23 AM
Were the squares used for executions in Ulster ?
The centre mall in Armagh is the shape of a coffin.
Quote from: Orior on March 16, 2023, 12:45:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2023, 11:32:23 AM
Were the squares used for executions in Ulster ?
The centre mall in Armagh is the shape of a coffin.
Was that deliberate?
It'd be a bit of a misshapen coffin.
Georgian terraces like that sometimes had a nice curve in them. Makes it a more cosy setting. The architecture on the East side of the Mall is stunning, the west side is a bit more hit-and-miss.
Anybody in Omagh? I have a question and might need a favour. Private message me if you can help...
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2023, 11:32:23 AM
Were the squares used for executions in Ulster ?
I think that would have been one use for the squares all right, because they tended to attract big crowds. Apparently the word "gala" comes from "gallows," since a "gala day" or "gallows day" would be an event that drew a lot of people.
(Update: I just looked up the etymology and I don't know how accurate that statement is, but I'll just leave it up there anyway.)