Go Games - Good or bad - discuss...

[Sportacus]

Nothing wrong with competition, the kids aren't stupid.  The problem is the kid who spends most of his/her underage career on the bench because the coach wants to win every game.  The kid never feels fully part of it and never develops as much as they could have.  You can only really solve that if the club creates a culture to include them.  They could grow up to be your next club Secretary, or be a late developer who kicks the winner in a minor final, but the vast majority of coaches only see todays game and the need to win it - meanwhile the kid becomes disillusioned and off they go, or worse still, stay!

[Saffrongael]

We've been running the May day tournament for decades at our club, great event for P5's, teams from all over the country and even American teams have taken part in it. This year was the first time we had to follow the new guidelines and while we had full attendances I'd say it will be of less prestige given how the go-games format is done.

It may change some managers approach to 'competitions' in the future, more emphasis on getting competitive games with clubs than entering tournaments

I suppose I'm old school and don't see personally anything wrong with winning and losing, thats just me, in my day you didn't have many parents turning up at undrerage games to be fair, not to the extent it is now, so screaming parents at games is a new thing

As far as I know there was actually a couple of teams didn't turn up to your May Day tournament, when they heard it was "non competitive". (Even though all the refs were keeping score) and all the kids were straight over to them at the end of the game to ask the score 

[ck]

We've been running the May day tournament for decades at our club, great event for P5's, teams from all over the country and even American teams have taken part in it. This year was the first time we had to follow the new guidelines and while we had full attendances I'd say it will be of less prestige given how the go-games format is done.

It may change some managers approach to 'competitions' in the future, more emphasis on getting competitive games with clubs than entering tournaments

I suppose I'm old school and don't see personally anything wrong with winning and losing, thats just me, in my day you didn't have many parents turning up at undrerage games to be fair, not to the extent it is now, so screaming parents at games is a new thing

As far as I know there was actually a couple of teams didn't turn up to your May Day tournament, when they heard it was "non competitive". (Even though all the refs were keeping score) and all the kids were straight over to them at the end of the game to ask the score 

I have no problem with the winning or losing aspect but I have a major problem with kids not getting playing. I help out with underage teams and last week we played an U11 Go game against a local club. We only had 13 boys so agreed 12 aside with 1 sub which we alternated across the 3 thirds so everyone got roughly the same time on the pitch.

We played a club who had 16 players so therefore had 4 subs. They were much bigger and stronger than us as it was a very one sided game. They were hammering us by about 10 goals but only gave 1 of their subs a run at the end. I thought this was disgraceful so asked their coach why they did that. He replied that A. It was none of my business and I should take my beating and B. Said his subs didn't really want to play anyway.

Our club takes a very different approach and we'd be known for having a good conveyour belt in bringing players to senior level and consistently producing good players who were not so good at u11/13 etc. I believe we have the right approach and need to put faith in every player to give them every opportunity to excel.

The club mentioned above do not have a good record in retaining players. They lose a lot to soccer and struggle to field at senior and retaining players is a massive issue for them. I think the above example illustrates why they have that problem.

[Itchy]

Is the GAA about inclusion or elitism? Probably the answer is somewhere in the middle and a line must be drawn somewhere. I think competitive football should not start until at least U12. Why? Well because its a barrier to keeping quite a lot of kids playing if they are seen as the weak link that loses games and its not just coaches, its the kids themselves and its parents on the sideline. What's the bloody rush, by the time the kids are 13/14/15 they will be playing competitive games so frequently they'll be begging for a break.
A lot here blaming coaches but I suspect that its your own little Johnny's that you're worried about and maybe you are living your past failures as players through them and you can't wait to see them lift that cup? One guy defining kids at U11 by being weak and strong - unbelievable stuff.

[tbrick18]

I don't like the new ruling. There seems to be a thought that clubs around the country are alienating players and not giving everyone a fair crack. In my experience as a coach the last few years that's not the case.

In Down we have a series of go games dates set out with a variety of clubs every 2-3 weeks from April to September.

We generally spread our players across 2 teams to ensure a degree of competitiveness across the board. As a result our stronger players rarely get to play together all at the same time.

The odd tournament where teams can truly test themselves against other clubs is only good for the players in my opinion. The young ones love it and it brings out that bit extra in them.

There seems to be more effort into catering for the weaker player at the expense of the stronger players.

I just don't buy into there being no place for competition at all. If can be beneficial.

I think it is more important to have players playing at their level and developing them there.
At the youngest age there are huge disparities in the ability levels for various reasons.
There are ways and means to cater for all and the answer isn't to ban competition.

I dont believe this is a new ruling, I think it has been in place for some time but clubs have just ignored it.
Looks like GAA is going to clamp down on implementation. How they do that, I don't know.

[thewobbler]

Is the GAA about inclusion or elitism? Probably the answer is somewhere in the middle and a line must be drawn somewhere. I think competitive football should not start until at least U12. Why? Well because its a barrier to keeping quite a lot of kids playing if they are seen as the weak link that loses games and its not just coaches, its the kids themselves and its parents on the sideline. What's the bloody rush, by the time the kids are 13/14/15 they will be playing competitive games so frequently they'll be begging for a break.
A lot here blaming coaches but I suspect that its your own little Johnny's that you're worried about and maybe you are living your past failures as players through them and you can't wait to see them lift that cup? One guy defining kids at U11 by being weak and strong - unbelievable stuff.

I'll ask again Itchy, for I'm all ears:

I'd be particularly interested in learning how you would run coaching sessions for 11 year old boys without regularly identifying "weaker" and "stronger" players to pair off with each other.

[tbrick18]

I think u12 is a good age to start for winning/losing - End of the day it's life experience and youngsters these days hate losing look at them playing other sports or video games (Fortnite/FIFA etc) but they pick up the controller and get on with the next game if they lose same they will do in Football. If they enjoy the activity they will keep coming back.

Issue is parents/coaches who think winning is everything and will curse a ref out, parents rowing with other parents at matches or shout at young players when they do something wrong. . I've had to turn round in the sideline and parent parents along the sideline and tell them to catch themselves on and what example are they setting - they usually shut up out of embarrassment getting told off.

Coached teams from u10s/u11s to minors and competitions in training everyone wants to win and they always had fun in them, penalty comps/free taking, sprints/shooting - but that toxicity that's along the sideline at senior games trickles down through the age groups and what child is going to want to keep playing if they keep getting shouted at.

Yeah that's the issue alright.
I suppose if you look at it in that light, perhaps its an attempt to protect the kids from that level of critique until they are a little older.
Main issue is some coaches. I'm one of 5 coaches of our u10.5 team. One of the coaches wants to win tournaments and only wants to take stronger players. The rest of us want to improve the kids and make sure they all get as much football as possible and enjoy it. Said coach wants those things too but also only wants to play the strongest team every day. It's a constant cause of friction between coaches and also with parents, who at this particular age group do all seem content if everyone is getting a fair crack at it.
This coach is a good fella, just ultra competitive himself which tends to mean he's one of those guys at go-games/tournaments complaining to refs.
It's really difficult to get the right balance at those underage teams, but as said on here by others, kids all develop at different rates in terms of growth, skills and ability to take instruction. None should be pigeon-holed into a position, tagged as the next star or be written off at 10 years of age and unfortunately I think tournaments contribute to that at that age.
12 and up for tournaments is more than enough in my mind. They still have plenty of football before senior level when a lot will drop off if they dont make it by then.

[square_ball]

I dont believe this is a new ruling, I think it has been in place for some time but clubs have just ignored it.
Looks like GAA is going to clamp down on implementation. How they do that, I don't know.

I would imagine clubs will just ignore it and take the slap on the wrist if/when it comes. There'll just be fewer facebook posts etc. from the clubs hosting and winning them.

[Rudi]

Is the GAA about inclusion or elitism? Probably the answer is somewhere in the middle and a line must be drawn somewhere. I think competitive football should not start until at least U12. Why? Well because its a barrier to keeping quite a lot of kids playing if they are seen as the weak link that loses games and its not just coaches, its the kids themselves and its parents on the sideline. What's the bloody rush, by the time the kids are 13/14/15 they will be playing competitive games so frequently they'll be begging for a break.
A lot here blaming coaches but I suspect that its your own little Johnny's that you're worried about and maybe you are living your past failures as players through them and you can't wait to see them lift that cup? One guy defining kids at U11 by being weak and strong - unbelievable stuff.

I'll ask again Itchy, for I'm all ears:

I'd be particularly interested in learning how you would run coaching sessions for 11 year old boys without regularly identifying "weaker" and "stronger" players to pair off with each other.

If a strong player is playing with a weaker player, the weak player won't get a look in, the stronger player wont pass to him. You can encourage the strong lad to pass, he just wont. At go games we always had stronger teams & weaker teams, worked well. Everybody needs to get as equal time as possible playing. Its about development & weaker players wont develop playing with much stronger players. Better playing at a level they are comfortable at. Its always great to see a weaker player, staying at it & moving up to play with the stronger players, because he was developed properly.

[Truth hurts]

There are so many perspectives about this in GAA clubs, in online forums, and on social media. It's hardly the end of the world, though, to have to wait until u13 to play competitive football. Even though your coach didn't win the coveted St. Galls May Day trophy, he can wait for the next prestigious competition.

[JimStynes]

Our primary school tournaments are competitive, and we have a competitive league and a non-competitive league that run on the same day. We openly call it our competitive team and our development team. It works very well and every child that wants a game of football in P6 and 7 can go! There has to be some element of competition involved as children love competition from they're no age! They'll even race to the front of the dinner line if it means they win! A middle ground and common-sense approach is the best scenario. For underage games up to maybe u14 I would like a competitive half/quarter/third or whathever, of football and then a half where the score doesn't count and everyone can get a go!

As someone said earlier, it's the parents who are the problem 99% of the time! I have friends who turn into different people when it involves their own kids!! Usually becoming the people they once complained about themselves!

[trailer]

My views on this have changed recently. I have coached underage teams and always took the view that every child must get equal time and in a non competitive scenario would actually try to give weaker players more time as they needed it more.
In competitive scenarios everyone got the same time regardless. Kids did get frustrated when you took a player off if the game was in the balance and that affected the game.

But I think we need a pathway for those more talented and competitive kids. How that works I am not sure. In larger clubs were poss it is better to stream by ability and challenge those kids, soccer do this. In smaller clubs it difficult.
But one real frustrating outcome was that many weaker players were given loads of game time they ended up quitting anyway once they turned 10, 11 or 12. From an early age it was clear to all and sundry that GAA wasn't for them, they couldn't get ball, didn't know what to do with it when they did, got dispossessed, stood around, etc.
But my own admission I have seen some player really leap forward and become brilliant key players who you certainly wouldn't have thought would do that.

So yeah lots of contradictions in that and like I say I don't really know where I stand on the whole thing, but perhaps on balance there does need to be some competitive challenge run alongside the non competitive games.

[square_ball]

Being involved in a small club where we are lucky to get over 10/12 players in the go games blitzes its obviously easier to get everyone equal game time as we are just grateful to have the numbers to be able to field. When I hear of local clubs having upwards of 30 and maybe even more I don't know what the answer is.

We have been invited to a 9 a side tournament later this year and the limit on players is 15 so for a club with maybe for example 20 at that age group how you make those calls and leave lads at home is definitely not one I'd like to be making.

For what its worth I think the balance is right in Tyrone. Go games every 3 weeks or so with clubs arranging plenty of friendly matches in between those and training. And then at the end of the year there does seem be plenty of competitive tournaments where lads could fight it out to win something. Its definitely not a black and white issue.

[TabClear]

Our primary school tournaments are competitive, and we have a competitive league and a non-competitive league that run on the same day. We openly call it our competitive team and our development team. It works very well and every child that wants a game of football in P6 and 7 can go! There has to be some element of competition involved as children love competition from they're no age! They'll even race to the front of the dinner line if it means they win! A middle ground and common-sense approach is the best scenario. For underage games up to maybe u14 I would like a competitive half/quarter/third or whathever, of football and then a half where the score doesn't count and everyone can get a go!

As someone said earlier, it's the parents who are the problem 99% of the time! I have friends who turn into different people when it involves their own kids!! Usually becoming the people they once complained about themselves!

This. Parents should be f**king banned from Underage games. I have coached for a few years but as soon as my own kids are out of youth I am done with it and it is solely down to the parents. At U12.5 We had a policy that every player got at least a half. That did mean that better players got more game time as they usually stay on for the whole match. Looking back that might have been unfair as it meant the same players tended to get swapped out for each other  but we decided it would be too difficult to try to give the same game time for everyone and we wanted to avoid the situation where we had 4-5 weaker players coming on en masse near the end, significantly weakening the team and frustrating the rest of the players.

on one memorable evening before the game I had one parent complaining about the lack of game time her u12.5 son was getting   and threatening to take her son to a different club. I wouldnt have minded except she was going to take him to a larger club. To top it off, I went for a pint in the clubrooms afterwards with a couple of mates who have sons in the team and they were griping about us not playing our strongest team. They got a pretty colourful response on it. 

[NAG1]

The way the underage tournaments in Derry are handled is an interesting concept.

Each Club enters two teams and it is the combined scored of the two teams 1 & 2 which determines the overall result.

Takes away from that A & B concept of stronger and weaker players as each and every player can play their part.

However that being said it is still ruined for the vast majority by the odd eejit coach or parent roaring and shouting. The kids are never the issue, it is always those that are along the side line that cause the bother.