https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2022/1222/1343307-hurling-management-teams-for-the-2023-season/
I'm not confident about Galway under Shefflin. I have a feeling the first year is always the best year to shake something out of Galway when it's an outside man.
I think they need more than a year.
Galway are always a danger. They just pick and choose what years to turn up.
Quote from: Don Cockburn on January 06, 2023, 12:41:22 PM
Galway are always a danger. They just pick and choose what years to turn up.
Games you mean. Can absolutely blow someone out of the water one week and then roll over to get their bellies tickled the next.
Galway must be an infuriating team to support in the hurling. They keep showing promise like they're as good as anyone then like you say the next day anyone could beat them. So much talent in the county but so little return this century at least considering what they have at their disposal.
Quote from: johnnycool on January 06, 2023, 01:21:09 PM
Quote from: Don Cockburn on January 06, 2023, 12:41:22 PM
Galway are always a danger. They just pick and choose what years to turn up.
Games you mean. Can absolutely blow someone out of the water one week and then roll over to get their bellies tickled the next.
Galway hurlers have 7 different levels. At level 7 nobody can play them
Words used to describe the Galway hurlers
Level 1 Puthrid
Level 2 Pure fuckin' usheless
Level 3 They threw it away
Level 4 Watch them f**k it up
Level 5 Mighty
Level 6 Slick
Level 7 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o2cV-FpoHo
#flaky
#consistent ?
6 semi-finals, 3 finals since 2015. Not been beaten by more than 4 points in any championship game since 2016, no other county can claim that. Kilkenny, Cork, Waterford, Clare, Wexford are longer without AIs than Galway.
2023 will see further flux in the team however. Coen has retired and David Burke will hardly either start or finish games any more. Conor Cooney and Jason Flynn (and maybe Brian Concannon also) just can't be trusted to deliver consistently, while McInerney will hardly start many more games at no. 6 either. Hopefully Tom Monaghan and Ronan Glennon (though I still have doubts) will consolidate their positions while such as Tiernan Killeen, Ronan Murphy, Evan Niland and Donal O'Shea can push on. Daithi, 2 Mannions, Whelan, J Cooney still the mainstays of the team.
Quote from: mouview on January 06, 2023, 06:43:31 PM
#consistent ?
6 semi-finals, 3 finals since 2015. Not been beaten by more than 4 points in any championship game since 2016, no other county can claim that. Kilkenny, Cork, Waterford, Clare, Wexford are longer without AIs than Galway.
2023 will see further flux in the team however. Coen has retired and David Burke will hardly either start or finish games any more. Conor Cooney and Jason Flynn (and maybe Brian Concannon also) just can't be trusted to deliver consistently, while McInerney will hardly start many more games at no. 6 either. Hopefully Tom Monaghan and Ronan Glennon (though I still have doubts) will consolidate their positions while such as Tiernan Killeen, Ronan Murphy, Evan Niland and Donal O'Shea can push on. Daithi, 2 Mannions, Whelan, J Cooney still the mainstays of the team.
Plus Zero club all Irelands won. I think the correlation is very strong.
So what happened when Portuma were winning club all Irelands? Or athenry? Clarinsbridge did well too.
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 06, 2023, 07:11:03 PM
So what happened when Portuma were winning club all Irelands? Or athenry? Clarinsbridge did well too.
The county team was quite a bit further away from Croke Park.
Between 92 and 2014 Galway teams won about half of the club all Irelands.
During that time the county team could never get any consistency.
2011
Brendan Lynskey pauses, as if to gather his words into more orderly bundles. He is angry. Not irritable or uneasy, but stridently, palpably angry."I'm trying to say this without blowing a head gasket," he sighs. "But there's a problem here in Galway..." " Noel Lane's frustration is asterisked by an innate reluctance to be seen as opportunistic or unfair. "I hate ever questioning players," says the manager of the 2001 defeated All-Ireland finalists. "But you have to ask do they not have the mental toughness or physical ruthlessness, that savage will to win? And there's only one way for them to answer that question."
They couldn't seem to get a proper manager either. Loughnane was almost disastrous, McIntyre little better; Conor Hayes was perhaps marginally better than Noel Lane.
Conor Hayes : "One of the issues I had with Galway was: I found them to be very much a bunch of individuals. And, when you're losing, the individual goes to mind himself and nobody else."
Quote from: imtommygunn on January 06, 2023, 07:11:03 PM
So what happened when Portuma were winning club all Irelands? Or athenry? Clarinsbridge did well too.
They would all go and sit in various corners in the dressing room and on the bus
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/
"In hurling, more so than football, this time of year there is no similarity to what we see in May, June and July. It's all about trying to get your timing right and not to overdo it in these months, in this weather.
"The pace of the game in the Munster Senior League is probably 25% of championship, in my opinion. The league would be more like 50-75% depending on the stage of it.
"That extra 25% comes once championship starts and pitches are better, everything is faster. Can guys can adapt to that, not just physically but also mentally, in terms of decision-making, instinct and having the character to do it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o2cV-FpoHo&t=128s
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/
"There is a strong case to maybe extend the championship into league or extend the championship when hurling is at its best, from the middle of February right up until July/August when we see the best players playing in the best conditions, more often than we do at the moment. Rather than in January when there is a huge amount being asked of them."
Every hurling county should have a minimum of 1 5g full sized pitch
Every province should have a minimum of 1 Dome similar to what they have in Connacht
That resolves the issue of early or late season games being played or delayed
Make the League more meaningful than what it currently is
Intercounty season jan-July
Club August-December
Laois decent win today... Wexford do start slow pre season but still great win
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 08, 2023, 06:23:47 PM
Laois decent win today... Wexford do start slow pre season but still great win
Yes, it was a decent win. They had their noses in front most of the way, and just held on - Rowland pulling off a great save after Chin set up a good chance at the end. Rowland then sent over a long-range free to seal it.
Seemingly, Wexford had 9 debutants starting, while Laois only started two. However, Laois must've brought on 8 or 9 subs, which was way more than Wexford - and at least a couple of them debutants, too. They worked hard, tackled well, and deserved the win. Of course, as we all know, Wexford at full-strength would be a different proposition. But, we'll take it all the same!
You never know when a hurling manager will make an appearance
https://www.rte.ie/news/player/2023/0113/22196411-tipperary-students-win-bt-young-scientist-competition/
This is a good read
https://www.gaa.ie/news/flashback-1996-all-ireland-shc-final-wexford-v-limerick/
Aaron Gillane in some discipline bother
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/no-comment-john-kiely-stays-silent-on-aaron-gillanes-absence-from-limerick-squad-42288308.html
.
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 16, 2023, 11:58:08 AM
Aaron Gillane in some discipline bother
https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/no-comment-john-kiely-stays-silent-on-aaron-gillanes-absence-from-limerick-squad-42288308.html
.
Be some loss if he is off the panel, is a cracking player, was benched a few times last year I think, probably tough to meet all the demands that's been laid out for them, but if you are hungry enough for more it shouldn't be an issue.
You are a long long time not playing the best game in the world, plenty of time after the boots are put away to enjoy the other things in life!!
You'd hope he wasn't on the team holiday through his own choice. Be bad form if he didn't travel due to been dropped from the squad for the incoming year.
Quote from: pbat on January 16, 2023, 05:49:32 PM
You'd hope he wasn't on the team holiday through his own choice. Be bad form if he didn't travel due to been dropped from the squad for the incoming year.
I think there's an ongoing matter to be resolved before it will be decided if he's able to rejoin the panel.
what did he do are they keeping it quiet.
Are the rumours true about a physical altercation with a Munster rugby player?
Not the first Limerick player to get in a scuffle. One of them was in a row after the Munster final last year.
Quote from: rodney trotter on January 19, 2023, 08:54:41 PM
Not the first Limerick player to get in a scuffle. One of them was in a row after the Munster final last year.
And was dropped off the panel right away.
There may be legal proceedings afoot with this other one allegedly.
Hosting Kilkenny this weekend, hopefully they are allowing their Ballyhale players some time off, while we bring back the Dunloy lads back in..
Wasn't a great Walsh cup by all accounts but should see a decent effort at Corrigan at the weekend. Wexford Galway probably the tightest match to call
Pauric Mahoney retired. He was a good one.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2023, 09:18:04 AM
Pauric Mahoney retired. He was a good one.
At 31.
Wonder if he wasn't prepared to buy into Davy's uber negative style of hurling.
There is no downtime in between the league and the championship and there are more games so counties have to be ready from the start or else ignore the league.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 01, 2023, 11:29:40 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 01, 2023, 09:18:04 AM
Pauric Mahoney retired. He was a good one.
At 31.
Wonder if he wasn't prepared to buy into Davy's uber negative style of hurling.
I wondered exactly the same.
I don't think the hurling league holds the same weight as the football. If there was one division 1 it'd be different.
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2023, 11:39:09 AM
There is no downtime in between the league and the championship and there are more games so counties have to be ready from the start or else ignore the league.
Teams peak for championship and the good ones peak for the latter stages of the championship, the league is and always will be a place to blood and tweak the team, It's important but its not the be and end all.
With how the set up is now, the better teams will always be in a top division, its the Westmeaths and Antrim and Laois's of the leagues that are using it to get players up a level and maintain status, they will only grow when they have a sustained period in top flight
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 08:52:50 AM
Hosting Kilkenny this weekend, hopefully they are allowing their Ballyhale players some time off, while we bring back the Dunloy lads back in..
Wasn't a great Walsh cup by all accounts but should see a decent effort at Corrigan at the weekend. Wexford Galway probably the tightest match to call
Should be a few competitive matches in the opening round. Wexford will be mad keen to add a Walsh Cup trophy in their biggest game yet under the new lights, but Galway are coming with a lot of good, new(ish) players and will be ultra-competitive. (Hopefully none get injured during this week's Fitzgibbon round). Cork, under a new manager, will be eager to get off to a good start at home against a Limerick team who don't always do the league well. Both Waterford and Dublin are also under new / returning management so both sets of players should be trying to impress their masters.
National Hurling League Division 1B county-by-county guide
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/01/nhl-division-1b-county-by-county/
Derek Lyng facing a difficult assignment as Kilkenny begin life after Brian Cody
Gordon Manning
Wed Feb 1 2023 - 19:00
Antrim
Manager: Darren Gleeson (4th season)
2022 record: Finished bottom of Division 1B, but beat Offaly in a relegation playoff to retain their top flight status for 2023. Joe McDonagh Cup winners. Beaten by Cork in an All-Ireland preliminary quarter-final.
Opening fixture: Saturday v Kilkenny, Corrigan Park, 2.0
Antrim lost all three of their Walsh Cup fixtures in January – to Dublin, Westmeath and Galway. They open their league campaign against Kilkenny this weekend, but the reality is Antrim's most significant game over the coming weeks will be their round four showdown against Laois.
Kilkenny
Manager: Derek Lyng (1st year)
2022 record: Finished top of Division 1B, with four wins and one defeat. But were beaten by Cork in a league semi-final. Leinster champions. Lost to Limerick in the All-Ireland final.
Opening fixture: Saturday v Antrim, Corrigan Park, 2.0
Kilkenny folk are still getting used to life after Brian Cody. It remains to be seen how the post-Cody era will shape up in 2023, but Derek Lyng will at least be hoping to start the league with a win over Antrim, before welcoming Tipperary to Nowlan Park next week.
New Kilkenny manager Derek Lyng keeps an eye on his charges during the Walsh Cup clash against Laois. Lyng has a difficult act to follow as he takes the managerial reins from the legendary Brian Cody. Photograph: Laszlo Geczo/Inpho
Tipperary
Manager: Liam Cahill (1st year)
2022 record: Finished fourth in Division 1B, with three wins and two defeats. Lost all four of their Munster SHC round-robin fixtures and finished bottom of the table.
Opening fixture: Saturday v Laois, FBD Semple Stadium, 5.0
Liam Cahill has appointed Noel McGrath as his captain for 2023 with Ronan Maher as vice-captain. The new Tipp boss has named a squad that includes youth and experience, including stalwarts Seamus Callanan and Patrick 'Bonner' Maher. Padraic Maher has joined Cahill's backroom team.
Laois
Manager: Willie Maher (1st year)
2022 record: Finished fifth in Division 1B, their one victory, over Antrim, enough for Laois to remain in Division One. However, they lost all five of their Leinster SHC round-robin games and have been relegated to the Joe McDonagh Cup for 2023.
Opening fixture: Saturday v Tipperary, FBD Semple Stadium, 5.0
Maher has a challenge on his hands to keep Laois in Division One, with the round four game against Antrim likely to decide which of those teams finishes bottom of the group and ends up in a relegation playoff. Maher has former Waterford player Dan Shanahan in his management team.
Waterford
Manager: Davy Fitzgerald (1st year)
2022 record: League champions. Waterford finished second in Division 1B, but beat Wexford at the semi-final stages and ultimately Cork in the final to win the Division One title. Managed just one victory, over Tipperary, from their four Munster SHC games. Finished fourth in the table.
Opening fixture: Sunday v Dublin, Fraher Field, 2.30
Pauric Mahony's retirement is a blow for Waterford as Davy Fitzgerald is already planning without Shane and Kieran Bennett, who are away for the year. With Walsh Park undergoing development work, Waterford won't have their usual home ground for all of their scheduled home games this season. They begin their league campaign in Fraher Field in Dungarvan on Sunday against Dublin. This is Fitzgerald's second crack at the Waterford job.
Dublin
Manager: Micheál Donoghue (1st year)
2022 record: Finished third in Division 1B, winning three games, losing one and drawing one. Failed to progress to the All-Ireland series, finishing fourth in the Leinster SHC with three wins and two defeats.
Opening fixture: Sunday v Waterford, Fraher Field, 2.30
Micheál Donoghue has said there are 10 players from last year's panel unavailable to him in 2023 for various reasons. Among those he won't be able to call upon are Liam Rushe, Chris Crummey and Cian O'Callaghan. But Eoghan O'Donnell, who linked up with the Dublin footballers last summer, has committed to the cause with the hurlers again for the 2023 campaign. After a few seasons of little movement, this is a big season for Dublin.
Fine comeback win for Cork against Limerick. 8 points behind at half time.
Thankfully game sparked into life in 2nd half. Fair play to Cork. Some turnaround.
Stayed away from having a bet on this cause anything could happen, I turned over soon into second half, thought Limerick had that in the bag
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 04, 2023, 09:14:03 PM
Fine comeback win for Cork against Limerick. 8 points behind at half time.
could be a costly win with what looks like a serious injury to Robbie O'Flynn
A very underrated Hurler
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2023, 11:53:13 AM
Quote from: seafoid on February 01, 2023, 11:39:09 AM
There is no downtime in between the league and the championship and there are more games so counties have to be ready from the start or else ignore the league.
Teams peak for championship and the good ones peak for the latter stages of the championship, the league is and always will be a place to blood and tweak the team, It's important but its not the be and end all.
With how the set up is now, the better teams will always be in a top division, its the Westmeaths and Antrim and Laois's of the leagues that are using it to get players up a level and maintain status, they will only grow when they have a sustained period in top flight
Munster Teams dont have that luxury
Quote from: clonadmad on February 04, 2023, 10:12:06 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 04, 2023, 09:14:03 PM
Fine comeback win for Cork against Limerick. 8 points behind at half time.
could be a costly win with what looks like a serious injury to Robbie O'Flynn
A very underrated Hurler
He'll do well to get back for championship, didn't look good...
Limerick arse boxing again, only four weeks of training done.
Not sure Cork showed enough to be a force when the sod dries up
Quote from: johnnycool on February 04, 2023, 10:15:51 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 04, 2023, 10:12:06 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 04, 2023, 09:14:03 PM
Fine comeback win for Cork against Limerick. 8 points behind at half time.
could be a costly win with what looks like a serious injury to Robbie O'Flynn
A very underrated Hurler
He'll do well to get back for championship, didn't look good...
Limerick arse boxing again, only four weeks of training done.
Not sure Cork showed enough to be a force when the sod dries up
Dowling said they were 6 weeks further down the road than they were last year
A good competitive second half
I expect the chasing pack (cork galway Clare and Kk) to close further on Limerick this year whether they catch them remains to be seen
Antrim seem to have put in a good shift.
I know that the hurling league isn't as dynamic as the football but repeated exposure to the top teams has to be good for the Joe Mac/all Ireland interface crowd
scrap provincial championships maybe play them early in season make the current league setup the all ireland only bring in semis and quarter finals group winners get bye to semis you can still name the other competitions after people it could be named all ireland division 2 joe mcdonagh cup all ireland division 3 christy ring cup etc.
Laois Antrim Westmeath are a level above Joe McDonagh, but well below the top 6 when it comes to the business end of the year... maintaining and adding to the panels will give more player's exposure to this level which can take them up... still waiting on Dublin to breakthrough and they are a level above us
Limerick, cork, Waterford, tipp, Clare, Galway, Wexford, kk, Dublin then the rest. Gap is massive between anyone and that.
Antrim, Laois , Westmeath then the likes of Kerry , Offaly and Carlow seem to have dropped off but I think Kildare have upped it. Offaly will likely make that a top ten in a few years.
Gap between those 9 and the rest is very big bar the odd blip.
If counties wanted more high quality competition something new would need to be tried, like evening up teams by transferring players from the stronger counties to drive standard improvement.
But I don't think they are interested.
Quote from: seafoid on February 05, 2023, 02:33:14 PM
If counties wanted more high quality competition something new would need to be tried, like evening up teams by transferring players from the stronger counties to drive standard improvement.
But I don't think they are interested.
It's about transporting a mind set, a passion a drive and a willingness to put the effort in..
Antrim Laois and Westmeath don't lack that they just don't have enough of it, whether that's from clubs or school's structures feeding into it I don't know.
I could use the excuse of geography and where Antrim are but the likes of Westmeath and Laois are in the thick of it. So there's something missing
Transferring players has been tried. It doesn't work and how would you transfer up the north for example. Wouldn't work.
Numbers, passion etc a huge thing. Dual also a factor in counties.
Another way to do it would be to start a project at under 12 and build a team of winners. That is what Glen did. It happens all the time in club.
A lot of it is psychological but you would also have to look at drop out rates. It takes a long time to build a serious hurler. You need a certain amount of them in a county to kick on.
You need to feed the best specimens into the hurling. It's all about the iterations. Galway did it in 2011 when they dropped most of the panel and based the panel on an u 21 team. Limerick did it. You need to give them regular exposure to the highest level.
Davy's enthusiasm is creating issues, 2 reds at home and a draw is a poor showing
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 05, 2023, 01:58:44 PM
Limerick, cork, Waterford, tipp, Clare, Galway, Wexford, kk, Dublin then the rest. Gap is massive between anyone and that.
Antrim, Laois , Westmeath then the likes of Kerry , Offaly and Carlow seem to have dropped off but I think Kildare have upped it. Offaly will likely make that a top ten in a few years.
Gap between those 9 and the rest is very big bar the odd blip.
Anything to be said for divisions of 8 again? Would make it competitive. Though, I suppose, there's be too many games in a condensed season...
3 groups of 4 with round robin , home and away
Quote from: seafoid on February 05, 2023, 08:26:47 PM
3 groups of 4 with round robin , home and away
Not your worst idea ever....
I don't know why they don't do the four eights. I think the team(s) who would be too good would kick up too much.
It's probably too early for a view on Tipp
https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1622361498830995458
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 05, 2023, 02:47:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 05, 2023, 02:33:14 PM
If counties wanted more high quality competition something new would need to be tried, like evening up teams by transferring players from the stronger counties to drive standard improvement.
But I don't think they are interested.
It's about transporting a mind set, a passion a drive and a willingness to put the effort in..
Antrim Laois and Westmeath don't lack that they just don't have enough of it, whether that's from clubs or school's structures feeding into it I don't know.
I could use the excuse of geography and where Antrim are but the likes of Westmeath and Laois are in the thick of it. So there's something missing
Mind set, a passion, a drive and a willingness are all secondary.
First of all you need a system. A priest from Cork I think introduced hurling to Antrim and Down. That needs a reboot.
Hurling is very different to football. Say it takes x hours to master. Football might be a quarter of that. Three quarters of the hurling hours have to be at the right level. You need games. And coaches with up to the minute drills . And managers. Eddie Brennan did an impressive job with Laois for 2 years I think but the developing counties would need that sort of support for 20 years with no county board bullshit. And you need a mindset of excellence. In Mickey Linden's Laochra Gael there is an interview with Barney McAleenan who was his PE teacher and football coach. Linden was top notch but only on his right foot . McAleenan told him he would need to kick points from both feet in Croke Park. So he practiced. And in the 94 final scored with his left foot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=337EaNOMHVs&t=120s
In terms of Galway, which is one of the insider counties, from say 2006 to 2011 the team was hurling at maybe 70%. They got up to 90% in 2012. It still took another 5 years to get to 100%. It is very difficult. But it's fantastic when it works.
Any viable solution has to involve the insider counties. And funding of top level coaching. And scouring the county for the best talent underage.
It would be like Crossmaglen but with a higher skill level. :o
Quote from: seafoid on February 06, 2023, 10:33:44 AM
A priest from Cork I think introduced hurling to Antrim and Down. That needs a reboot.
Are you sure about that?!
Quote from: burdizzo on February 07, 2023, 04:28:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 06, 2023, 10:33:44 AM
A priest from Cork I think introduced hurling to Antrim and Down. That needs a reboot.
Are you sure about that?!
Christian brothers in schools were big drivers back in the day but hurling has been around a long long time, but he needs to talk crap so it's ok ;D
Hurling had too be reintroduced . I can't remember where I read about the Cork connection.
https://www.historyireland.com/the-geography-of-hurling-11-2/
By the mid nineteenth century, hurling had declined so steeply that it survived only in three pockets, around Cork city, in south-east Galway and in the area north of Wexford town.
What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?
Genuine question.
Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?
Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.
Quote from: Upandover on February 07, 2023, 10:47:40 PM
What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?
Genuine question.
Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?
Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.
A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...
Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too
I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..
As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2023, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Upandover on February 07, 2023, 10:47:40 PM
What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?
Genuine question.
Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?
Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.
A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...
Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too
I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..
As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.
I think the expectations are lower in these counties, too. When Laois beat Dublin to get to the all-Ireland quarter final a couple of years ago, everyone thought they'd kick on, get lads back - but instead, lads dropped away, as if they reckoned it was as far as they could go. Also - and just talking about Laois here - there's no one around who realistically EXPECTS they can win, say, a Leinster title, because there's no one (or very few, at least) who've seen it done. Offaly, on the other hand, I think do have serious ambitions to be 'back up there', and that's in no small part due to the fact there's plenty around who've seen it done, know what it takes, and fully expect that it CAN be done. And I think they probably will overtake Laois, Antrim, Westmeath pretty soon.
I also think that in the counties mentioned, hurling very much plays second fiddle to football. Sadly.
Quote from: burdizzo on February 07, 2023, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2023, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Upandover on February 07, 2023, 10:47:40 PM
What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?
Genuine question.
Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?
Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.
A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...
Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too
I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..
As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.
I think the expectations are lower in these counties, too. When Laois beat Dublin to get to the all-Ireland quarter final a couple of years ago, everyone thought they'd kick on, get lads back - but instead, lads dropped away, as if they reckoned it was as far as they could go. Also - and just talking about Laois here - there's no one around who realistically EXPECTS they can win, say, a Leinster title, because there's no one (or very few, at least) who've seen it done. Offaly, on the other hand, I think do have serious ambitions to be 'back up there', and that's in no small part due to the fact there's plenty around who've seen it done, know what it takes, and fully expect that it CAN be done. And I think they probably will overtake Laois, Antrim, Westmeath pretty soon.
I also think that in the counties mentioned, hurling very much plays second fiddle to football. Sadly.
Its a strange one because football in Antrim we are at best a div 3 team but mainly div 4 for so many years, WE got to one Ulster final in over 50 years but its still a big deal here with me club teams that hurling.. I can't work that out other than its an easier sport to play ;)
Quote from: burdizzo on February 07, 2023, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2023, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Upandover on February 07, 2023, 10:47:40 PM
What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?
Genuine question.
Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?
Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.
A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...
Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too
I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..
As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.
I think the expectations are lower in these counties, too. When Laois beat Dublin to get to the all-Ireland quarter final a couple of years ago, everyone thought they'd kick on, get lads back - but instead, lads dropped away, as if they reckoned it was as far as they could go. Also - and just talking about Laois here - there's no one around who realistically EXPECTS they can win, say, a Leinster title, because there's no one (or very few, at least) who've seen it done. Offaly, on the other hand, I think do have serious ambitions to be 'back up there', and that's in no small part due to the fact there's plenty around who've seen it done, know what it takes, and fully expect that it CAN be done. And I think they probably will overtake Laois, Antrim, Westmeath pretty soon.
I also think that in the counties mentioned, hurling very much plays second fiddle to football. Sadly.
Down U17 hurlers were in Tipp last weekend for a few challenge games vrs Tipp minors in Thurles.
Got the usual tanking as expected but was talking to one of their coaches and he said whilst there was a noticeable difference in standard the Down lads were getting to the pitch of the game much better in the second half.
Regular exposure to that standard of hurling at an early age is crucial and to build from it. We don't do that often enough and whilst the logistics aren't great (the lads from the Ards were away from 6am) it's essential to actually develop beyond our current level.
Tipp have 60 odd clubs to pick from, Cork 100 plus, Kilkenny 40 or there abouts, Down 6 or so contribute to that team so there needs to be a bit of reality within your expectations but that doesn't excuse not trying.
I was looking at a map of the hurling areas in the country .
What really stands out is the small geographical areas covered by Antrim and Down hurling.
(https://www.historyireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/The-Geography-of-Hurling-4.jpg)
Playing Population for starters and proximity to high quality opposition
Indeed, Limerick (9,980) has the sixth largest hurling playing population in Ireland currently, behind Cork (25,600), Tipperary (14,260), Dublin (13,980), Galway (12,520), and Kilkenny (10,080).
If we are to consider Map 2 a measurement of hurling density, such an indicator might better reflect the health of the game rather than its overall popularity. Unsurprisingly, only Dublin (15.33/km2) contains at least one starting team worth of hurlers per square kilometre. The next most densely populated counties in terms of hurlers are Waterford (5.27/km2), and Kilkenny (4.89 km2). More pressing a concern, arguably, is that 13 counties of Ireland have less than one hurler per square kilometre, from Down (0.83/km2) in the northeast to Kerry(0.58/km2) in the southwest and back to Donegal (0.40/km2) in the northwest.
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2022/0322/1287753-hurling-census-2022-population-hurlers-density/#:~:text=Indeed%2C%20Limerick%20(9%2C980)%20has,%2C%20and%20Kilkenny%20(10%2C080).
In the Weaker counties
You just dont have enough players putting in the Hurling hours needed to excel at the game.
Quote from: clonadmad on February 08, 2023, 09:24:01 AM
In the Weaker counties
You just dont have enough players putting in the Hurling hours needed to excel at the game.
Yeah I know a couple of lads from Armagh who are unbelievably talented hurlers- maybe if they were from Kilkenny and were playing at a high standard from an early age they'd be as good as those lads. Thankless task trying to develop hurling teams in a lot of counties.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2023, 09:08:56 AM
Its a strange one because football in Antrim we are at best a div 3 team but mainly div 4 for so many years, WE got to one Ulster final in over 50 years but its still a big deal here with me club teams that hurling.. I can't work that out other than its an easier sport to play ;)
Much the same here in Laois - we're currently division 4 in football and Division 1 in hurling, but the county board is still very skewed towards football. And that's despite the fact that the hurling county finals bring in bigger attendances. In terms of clubs/ playing numbers, it's probably about 60 football:40 hurling. Part of it might be that football's more widely played nationally, and there's always a chance- if you get fit enough and are determined enough - that you can make strides. With hurling, it's more like baby steps up intercounty the pecking order.
Quote from: burdizzo on February 08, 2023, 10:42:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2023, 09:08:56 AM
Its a strange one because football in Antrim we are at best a div 3 team but mainly div 4 for so many years, WE got to one Ulster final in over 50 years but its still a big deal here with me club teams that hurling.. I can't work that out other than its an easier sport to play ;)
Much the same here in Laois - we're currently division 4 in football and Division 1 in hurling, but the county board is still very skewed towards football. And that's despite the fact that the hurling county finals bring in bigger attendances. In terms of clubs/ playing numbers, it's probably about 60 football:40 hurling. Part of it might be that football's more widely played nationally, and there's always a chance- if you get fit enough and are determined enough - that you can make strides. With hurling, it's more like baby steps up intercounty the pecking order.
Similar dynamic in Westmeath. These counties have much much smaller populations than the top hurling counties (Kilkenny excepted). And unlike Kilkenny are splitting their resources across two games. Westmeath is a genuine duel county - in that it actually has duel players. Almost every member of the county hurling panel plays club football , and most at senior level. This is not the case in Galway for example, where it is effectively two different counties from a GAA perspective.
Bottom line is, player numbers are not there. And there are not (and realistically never will be) the resources to change that dramatically. It's a numbers game ; population and money.
Quote from: burdizzo on February 07, 2023, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2023, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Upandover on February 07, 2023, 10:47:40 PM
What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?
Genuine question.
Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?
Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.
A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...
Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too
I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..
As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.
I think the expectations are lower in these counties, too. When Laois beat Dublin to get to the all-Ireland quarter final a couple of years ago, everyone thought they'd kick on, get lads back - but instead, lads dropped away, as if they reckoned it was as far as they could go. Also - and just talking about Laois here - there's no one around who realistically EXPECTS they can win, say, a Leinster title, because there's no one (or very few, at least) who've seen it done. Offaly, on the other hand, I think do have serious ambitions to be 'back up there', and that's in no small part due to the fact there's plenty around who've seen it done, know what it takes, and fully expect that it CAN be done. And I think they probably will overtake Laois, Antrim, Westmeath pretty soon.
I also think that in the counties mentioned, hurling very much plays second fiddle to football. Sadly.
Offaly have won all Irelands in recent memory. That is priceless.
It's a real pity that the momentum generated by Eddie Brennan in Laois just petered out.
Quote from: burdizzo on February 08, 2023, 10:42:09 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2023, 09:08:56 AM
Its a strange one because football in Antrim we are at best a div 3 team but mainly div 4 for so many years, WE got to one Ulster final in over 50 years but its still a big deal here with me club teams that hurling.. I can't work that out other than its an easier sport to play ;)
Much the same here in Laois - we're currently division 4 in football and Division 1 in hurling, but the county board is still very skewed towards football. And that's despite the fact that the hurling county finals bring in bigger attendances. In terms of clubs/ playing numbers, it's probably about 60 football:40 hurling. Part of it might be that football's more widely played nationally, and there's always a chance- if you get fit enough and are determined enough - that you can make strides. With hurling, it's more like baby steps up intercounty the pecking order.
The difference between levels in hurling is massive. I always felt with Antrim that the players have to put in huge huge efforts to get to the top level and when they get there it becomes very hard to sustain especially when they are taking big beatings. It kind of feels like Laois, Westmeath and Carlow to name but a few always have the same problem too.
You could probably do a pHd on it tbh. Geography, numbers, desire - the list is endless. The desire is not always a fair comment tbh because say glens of antrim people live and breathe hurling and I am sure in many of these other counties of similar ilk it is the same. The desire maybe is more there at club than county sometimes. Tbh it very much feels like peaks and troughs. Darren Gleeson has done a great job with us and I can't help but feel that there may be a trough when he moves on but I hope I am wrong!
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 08, 2023, 10:30:23 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 08, 2023, 09:24:01 AM
In the Weaker counties
You just dont have enough players putting in the Hurling hours needed to excel at the game.
Yeah I know a couple of lads from Armagh who are unbelievably talented hurlers- maybe if they were from Kilkenny and were playing at a high standard from an early age they'd be as good as those lads. Thankless task trying to develop hurling teams in a lot of counties.
Whereas the serious hurling counties have a conveyor belt of talent every year
maybe the New Ross motion before Congress might progress things slowly in the right direction
I could see Kildare making a Hurling Breakthrough and by that I mean playing Leinster Championship and Div1 Hurling
Population,Large Business,closeness to third level colleges and a lot of Hurling Expats living now within the County
Quote from: Upandover on February 07, 2023, 10:47:40 PM
What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?
Genuine question.
Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?
Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.
Limerick was in the doldrums for about 40 years. Money entered the scene and they were very organised. But I wouldn't have them in the same class as Kilkenny where hurling excellence has been a religion over the same period.
Quote from: burdizzo on February 07, 2023, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2023, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Upandover on February 07, 2023, 10:47:40 PM
What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?
Genuine question.
Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?
Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.
A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...
Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too
I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..
As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.
I think the expectations are lower in these counties, too. When Laois beat Dublin to get to the all-Ireland quarter final a couple of years ago, everyone thought they'd kick on, get lads back - but instead, lads dropped away, as if they reckoned it was as far as they could go. Also - and just talking about Laois here - there's no one around who realistically EXPECTS they can win, say, a Leinster title, because there's no one (or very few, at least) who've seen it done. Offaly, on the other hand, I think do have serious ambitions to be 'back up there', and that's in no small part due to the fact there's plenty around who've seen it done, know what it takes, and fully expect that it CAN be done. And I think they probably will overtake Laois, Antrim, Westmeath pretty soon.
I also think that in the counties mentioned, hurling very much plays second fiddle to football. Sadly.
Agree with all that plus I'll add one if that's ok.
The standard clubs play at will determine how good you are. The small few clubs in Laois, for example, play each other all the time. Rivalries build up and the year becomes all about beating the rivals as opposed to improving.
Visionaries in Naas saw something. They took their teams down to Kilkenny, begged to be put in the A division, learnt a few hard lessons in the beginning but eventually prospered. They are now part and parcel of the Kilkenny club underage scene competing well in its competitions, winning a minor league recently. More importantly, their players see a way of improving. Their current senior team is the harvest of that work.
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 08, 2023, 10:30:23 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 08, 2023, 09:24:01 AM
In the Weaker counties
You just dont have enough players putting in the Hurling hours needed to excel at the game.
Yeah I know a couple of lads from Armagh who are unbelievably talented hurlers- maybe if they were from Kilkenny and were playing at a high standard from an early age they'd be as good as those lads. Thankless task trying to develop hurling teams in a lot of counties.
Keady and Middletown are mad about the hurling. There may be more too in Armagh. Mayo clubs in AI intermediate final and I *think* sligo in junior. Wee pockets all over the place.
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2023, 11:19:52 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 07, 2023, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2023, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Upandover on February 07, 2023, 10:47:40 PM
What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?
Genuine question.
Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?
Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.
A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...
Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too
I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..
As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.
I think the expectations are lower in these counties, too. When Laois beat Dublin to get to the all-Ireland quarter final a couple of years ago, everyone thought they'd kick on, get lads back - but instead, lads dropped away, as if they reckoned it was as far as they could go. Also - and just talking about Laois here - there's no one around who realistically EXPECTS they can win, say, a Leinster title, because there's no one (or very few, at least) who've seen it done. Offaly, on the other hand, I think do have serious ambitions to be 'back up there', and that's in no small part due to the fact there's plenty around who've seen it done, know what it takes, and fully expect that it CAN be done. And I think they probably will overtake Laois, Antrim, Westmeath pretty soon.
I also think that in the counties mentioned, hurling very much plays second fiddle to football. Sadly.
Offaly have won all Irelands in recent memory. That is priceless.
It's a real pity that the momentum generated by Eddie Brennan in Laois just petered out.
Petered???? "Fucked" would be a more appropriate word there.
Quote from: seafoid on February 08, 2023, 11:34:28 AM
Quote from: Upandover on February 07, 2023, 10:47:40 PM
What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?
Genuine question.
Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?
Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.
Limerick was in the doldrums for about 40 years. Money entered the scene and they were very organised. But I wouldn't have them in the same class as Kilkenny where hurling excellence has been a religion over the same period.
Limerick have spent their money really well, in comparison to the likes of Galway who have blown millions on misjudged land purchases and lack of oversight on County Board spending
Equally important to Limerick is access to 3 third level colleges and excellent organisation and commitment from the right people over the past 20 odd years
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 08, 2023, 11:38:31 AM
Quote from: Armagh18 on February 08, 2023, 10:30:23 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 08, 2023, 09:24:01 AM
In the Weaker counties
You just dont have enough players putting in the Hurling hours needed to excel at the game.
Yeah I know a couple of lads from Armagh who are unbelievably talented hurlers- maybe if they were from Kilkenny and were playing at a high standard from an early age they'd be as good as those lads. Thankless task trying to develop hurling teams in a lot of counties.
Keady and Middletown are mad about the hurling. There may be more too in Armagh. Mayo clubs in AI intermediate final and I *think* sligo in junior. Wee pockets all over the place.
Yeah they're big into the hurling there but again relatively- i think Middletown got to an Ulster intermediate final this year and were beat, they won it maybe 6-7 years ago. Keady were beat in a final a few years back as well.
Craobh Rua in Camlough doing great work as well- won Ulster Junior recently and stepped up to Armagh senior hurling and held their own, but still a fair bit off Middletown. They're not helped by the fact one of their main men is Jarly Og Burns who is obviously tied up with county football.
Quote from: Zooming around on February 08, 2023, 11:37:16 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 07, 2023, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2023, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Upandover on February 07, 2023, 10:47:40 PM
What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?
Genuine question.
Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?
Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.
A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...
Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too
I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..
As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.
I think the expectations are lower in these counties, too. When Laois beat Dublin to get to the all-Ireland quarter final a couple of years ago, everyone thought they'd kick on, get lads back - but instead, lads dropped away, as if they reckoned it was as far as they could go. Also - and just talking about Laois here - there's no one around who realistically EXPECTS they can win, say, a Leinster title, because there's no one (or very few, at least) who've seen it done. Offaly, on the other hand, I think do have serious ambitions to be 'back up there', and that's in no small part due to the fact there's plenty around who've seen it done, know what it takes, and fully expect that it CAN be done. And I think they probably will overtake Laois, Antrim, Westmeath pretty soon.
I also think that in the counties mentioned, hurling very much plays second fiddle to football. Sadly.
Agree with all that plus I'll add one if that's ok.
The standard clubs play at will determine how good you are. The small few clubs in Laois, for example, play each other all the time. Rivalries build up and the year becomes all about beating the rivals as opposed to improving.
Visionaries in Naas saw something. They took their teams down to Kilkenny, begged to be put in the A division, learnt a few hard lessons in the beginning but eventually prospered. They are now part and parcel of the Kilkenny club underage scene competing well in its competitions, winning a minor league recently. More importantly, their players see a way of improving. Their current senior team is the harvest of that work.
The Mid Tipp Division were interested in allowing in Laois Teams from minor down to play in their leagues and the Laois teams could then play in their own championship, the proposal was made to the Laois CB and it then died a death.
Fair play to Naas for having the drive and commitment to play in the KK leagues but fair play to Kilkenny too for trying in a practical way to improve hurling in Kildare
This pairing up system could be done in a lot of weaker counties bordering the stronger hurling counties
Talking of naas, theyve been everywhere at underage level.
We played them at carryduff in hurling and at lamh dearg in football last year, strong sides at both codes.
Ulster teams need to play matches against teams from the south as often as possible if they want to improve. Teams like slaughtneil, ballycran and the other stronger non Antrim clubs get no benefit from playing matches against other Ulster teams
Quote from: harryR on February 08, 2023, 02:24:00 PM
Ulster teams need to play matches against teams from the south as often as possible if they want to improve. Teams like slaughtneil, ballycran and the other stronger non Antrim clubs get no benefit from playing matches against other Ulster teams
The top tier teams in Ulster S'niel, Dunloy, Loughgiel, Cushendall, Portaferry, Ballycran would be able to compete in the Kilkenny/Tipp/Galway/Limerick leagues. I said compete though, and with their championships that would be a different ask also but not impossible.
I one league alone Antrim would have only 3 teams that would meet a standard, we just don't have enough clubs that can commit to that.. I would love to see a proper Belfast hurling only club or two that would put all efforts into hurling only, but setting aside club pride would be the hardest thing, in doing that I believe we'd have 6 or even 7 clubs that would be hurling at a higher standard and generating better players through the juvenile set ups
Quote from: clonadmad on February 08, 2023, 11:50:32 AM
Quote from: Zooming around on February 08, 2023, 11:37:16 AM
Quote from: burdizzo on February 07, 2023, 11:22:32 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 07, 2023, 10:59:57 PM
Quote from: Upandover on February 07, 2023, 10:47:40 PM
What is missing from the likes of antrim, laois, westmeath, perhaps even dublin to get upto the level with the likes of kilkenny and limerick?
Genuine question.
Is it schools? Is it coaching? Is it parents not buying in? Soccer?
Id love to go and hear the different demographics, watch the training sessions at younger age groups just to see how it differs compared to us.
A mixture of dual sports doesn't help but the tradition of Kilkenny Tipp Cork and so on is a big factor in having the mindset right, for Antrim we have 4 clubs that play hurling at a decent level. We need ten and a few decent intermediate teams to push on to senior...
Schools is B level and county juvenile is at B grade too
I'm not sure or able to put my finger on it but it'll be a mixture of what you have posted..
As for training/coaching kids the right way that's a big factor too. We had fantastic coaches in our club that were doing all the right things with a group of kids a while back, the lads were developing well but the drop off or commitment disappeared.
I think the expectations are lower in these counties, too. When Laois beat Dublin to get to the all-Ireland quarter final a couple of years ago, everyone thought they'd kick on, get lads back - but instead, lads dropped away, as if they reckoned it was as far as they could go. Also - and just talking about Laois here - there's no one around who realistically EXPECTS they can win, say, a Leinster title, because there's no one (or very few, at least) who've seen it done. Offaly, on the other hand, I think do have serious ambitions to be 'back up there', and that's in no small part due to the fact there's plenty around who've seen it done, know what it takes, and fully expect that it CAN be done. And I think they probably will overtake Laois, Antrim, Westmeath pretty soon.
I also think that in the counties mentioned, hurling very much plays second fiddle to football. Sadly.
Agree with all that plus I'll add one if that's ok.
The standard clubs play at will determine how good you are. The small few clubs in Laois, for example, play each other all the time. Rivalries build up and the year becomes all about beating the rivals as opposed to improving.
Visionaries in Naas saw something. They took their teams down to Kilkenny, begged to be put in the A division, learnt a few hard lessons in the beginning but eventually prospered. They are now part and parcel of the Kilkenny club underage scene competing well in its competitions, winning a minor league recently. More importantly, their players see a way of improving. Their current senior team is the harvest of that work.
The Mid Tipp Division were interested in allowing in Laois Teams from minor down to play in their leagues and the Laois teams could then play in their own championship, the proposal was made to the Laois CB and it then died a death.
Fair play to Naas for having the drive and commitment to play in the KK leagues but fair play to Kilkenny too for trying in a practical way to improve hurling in Kildare
This pairing up system could be done in a lot of weaker counties bordering the stronger hurling counties
We've entered into the Antrim leagues at underage with the provisio that we also have to compete in our own county league and that can be a stretch where you're committing to a lot of travelling and a lot of fixtures, that's probably the same with Naas going underage in Kilkenny as do/did the Carlow clubs.
Naas has a huge catchment area with a lot of blowins from the hurling strongholds further west. They're very strong at underage and IIRC won a Div1 AI feile a few years ago. They'll get stronger with the experience in Kilkenny much like Mount Leinster Rangers getting to an AI final.
How feasible would it be to expand the geographical footprint of hurling in Down and Antrim ?
What would you need do? The 2 counties have decent population density even after allowing for religion :o
and Belfast is split between the 2 .
Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2023, 05:04:32 PM
How feasible would it be to expand the geographical footprint of hurling in Down and Antrim ?
What would you need do? The 2 counties have decent population density even after allowing for religion :o
and Belfast is split between the 2 .
Could be wrong but I think they are making decent progress in Down, with a few non peninsula clubs starting to nip at the heels of the big 3?
The higher skill levels required is a huge barrier to entry for clubs - from both a playing and coaching perspective
Non traditional clubs nearly always need a strong core of die hard hurling men to establish themselves
You tend to see someone with drive getting it started, but once they lose interest/circumstances change (or it starts to interfere with the local footballers) then it tends to shrivel away again
That or a well respected blow-in who marries into the parish
Quote from: Franko on February 09, 2023, 09:53:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 09, 2023, 05:04:32 PM
How feasible would it be to expand the geographical footprint of hurling in Down and Antrim ?
What would you need do? The 2 counties have decent population density even after allowing for religion :o
and Belfast is split between the 2 .
Could be wrong but I think they are making decent progress in Down, with a few non peninsula clubs starting to nip at the heels of the big 3?
The higher skill levels required is a huge barrier to entry for clubs - from both a playing and coaching perspective
Non traditional clubs nearly always need a strong core of die hard hurling men to establish themselves
You tend to see someone with drive getting it started, but once they lose interest/circumstances change (or it starts to interfere with the local footballers) then it tends to shrivel away again
That or a well respected blow-in who marries into the parish
No Ards club won an underage hurling championship in 2022. Two went to South Belfast and one to Castlewellan.
That bodes well for Down hurling in the longer term and thankfully gone are the days of the only competition the Ards clubs were each other.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2023, 02:40:32 PM
Quote from: harryR on February 08, 2023, 02:24:00 PM
Ulster teams need to play matches against teams from the south as often as possible if they want to improve. Teams like slaughtneil, ballycran and the other stronger non Antrim clubs get no benefit from playing matches against other Ulster teams
The top tier teams in Ulster S'niel, Dunloy, Loughgiel, Cushendall, Portaferry, Ballycran would be able to compete in the Kilkenny/Tipp/Galway/Limerick leagues. I said compete though, and with their championships that would be a different ask also but not impossible.
I one league alone Antrim would have only 3 teams that would meet a standard, we just don't have enough clubs that can commit to that.. I would love to see a proper Belfast hurling only club or two that would put all efforts into hurling only, but setting aside club pride would be the hardest thing, in doing that I believe we'd have 6 or even 7 clubs that would be hurling at a higher standard and generating better players through the juvenile set ups
Na magha would be a hurling only team from Derry city, underage teams all fairly decent however they seem to struggle alot when it gets to senior team. Weakest team in Derry for a while
Clare had 16 men on the field there. Ref soon sorted it and gave the extra boy a yellow. Think he was a bit paranoid about it blowing up :D
Limerick still looking sharp with a few missing. Waterford could be doing with less red cards.
Clare were dreadful
The all Ireland will come down to who has the strongest panel. Same as the 6 nations.
Quote from: Kidder81 on February 11, 2023, 09:49:59 PM
Clare were dreadful
It wasn't that they were missing Kelly - their style of play was awful. Limerick get the ball and they're pinging men to their hand with accuracy and Clare just lump it anywhere and then let their men fight for it. It's like they haven't evolved with the game.
Tipp giving kk the run around. How can the kk defence allow a tipp player free as a bird at the top of the D time and time again I don't know.
Kk will have the wind second half , they'll need a good start
Cork are doing well v Galway
Early days. Wouldn't be panicking about the league lads.
Teams getting a good look at their panel and making a lot of changes from week to week and during the game.
All geared to the round robins in a few months.
Was worried how Antrim would fair today, Dublin taking advantage of our mistakes and overplaying the ball..
That said if them goal's had have went in we'd be a lot closer!!
The split season has downgraded the status of the league in hurling which is a pity.
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2023, 06:52:32 PM
The split season has downgraded the status of the league in hurling which is a pity.
That is nonsense. The league has been crap for a hell of a long time. The championship being on a league basis downgraded the league more than anything. Chopping and changing the format downgraded it.
It's not the split season- if they made one division one it would be fine. All the top teams know they are safe. If you had like they had the old division one there would be no room for slip ups.
Quote from: shark on February 12, 2023, 07:24:41 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2023, 06:52:32 PM
The split season has downgraded the status of the league in hurling which is a pity.
That is nonsense. The league has been crap for a hell of a long time. The championship being on a league basis downgraded the league more than anything. Chopping and changing the format downgraded it.
Seems that alright.
It was strange that they went with Round robin in the Munster championship. It was always regarded as the ultimate championship to win. It's too long now and not the same bite
Quote from: rodney trotter on February 12, 2023, 08:03:54 PM
It was strange that they went with Round robin in the Munster championship. It was always regarded as the ultimate championship to win. It's too long now and not the same bite
The thing about the round robins is a couole of big teams will not get through to the knock out stages. That's why the round robins are cut throat. A couple of years ago, Dublin, I think lost out on points difference.
I think the Joe Mc Donagh winners getting into the knock out stages is fair enough (to help them progress etc.) but to see the beaten finalists get in also at the expense of a 'bigger' team is madness to me.
That's why the league is not as important.
The round robins come straight after the league. Teams really need another weeks break, maybe two weeks even.
Quote from: marty34 on February 12, 2023, 08:20:35 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on February 12, 2023, 08:03:54 PM
It was strange that they went with Round robin in the Munster championship. It was always regarded as the ultimate championship to win. It's too long now and not the same bite
The thing about the round robins is a couole of big teams will not get through to the knock out stages. That's why the round robins are cut throat. A couple of years ago, Dublin, I think lost out on points difference.
I think the Joe Mc Donagh winners getting into the knock out stages is fair enough (to help them progress etc.) but to see the beaten finalists get in also at the expense of a 'bigger' team is madness to me.
That's why the league is not as important.
The round robins come straight after the league. Teams really need another weeks break, maybe two weeks even.
Munster is far more cutthroat than Leinster where the Dubs are not very consistent.
Quote from: rodney trotter on February 12, 2023, 08:03:54 PM
It was strange that they went with Round robin in the Munster championship. It was always regarded as the ultimate championship to win. It's too long now and not the same bite
Highest attendance of all provincial championships in either code
5 closely matched teams most years since the round robin came in
No bite in it ?
Jesus wept
Quote from: clonadmad on February 12, 2023, 09:08:53 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on February 12, 2023, 08:03:54 PM
It was strange that they went with Round robin in the Munster championship. It was always regarded as the ultimate championship to win. It's too long now and not the same bite
Highest attendance of all provincial championships in either code
5 closely matched teams most years since the round robin came in
No bite in it ?
Jesus wept
Waterford were a shambles last year in Munster. They came off a great league campaign, so yes they were lacking the same bite.
Peaked too soon or whatever it was
Tipperary were very poor too.
Quote from: rodney trotter on February 12, 2023, 09:15:30 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 12, 2023, 09:08:53 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on February 12, 2023, 08:03:54 PM
It was strange that they went with Round robin in the Munster championship. It was always regarded as the ultimate championship to win. It's too long now and not the same bite
Highest attendance of all provincial championships in either code
5 closely matched teams most years since the round robin came in
No bite in it ?
Jesus wept
Waterford were a shambles last year in Munster. They came off a great league campaign, so yes they were lacking the same bite.
Peaked too soon or whatever it was
Tipperary were very poor too.
If every provincial championship had as much bite as the Munster hurling championship,the GAA competitions would be in a great place
Your not seriously suggesting it goes back to a county getting knocked out after losing 1 game ?
Tipp can be either sublime or ridiculous
They weren't going out after one game though. Getting beat effectively put them in the back door as per the football. I also think the Munster championship isn't what it was. Part of that is teams sick of getting beat by Limerick mind you.
Quote from: seafoid on February 12, 2023, 08:33:47 PM
Quote from: marty34 on February 12, 2023, 08:20:35 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on February 12, 2023, 08:03:54 PM
It was strange that they went with Round robin in the Munster championship. It was always regarded as the ultimate championship to win. It's too long now and not the same bite
The thing about the round robins is a couole of big teams will not get through to the knock out stages. That's why the round robins are cut throat. A couple of years ago, Dublin, I think lost out on points difference.
I think the Joe Mc Donagh winners getting into the knock out stages is fair enough (to help them progress etc.) but to see the beaten finalists get in also at the expense of a 'bigger' team is madness to me.
That's why the league is not as important.
The round robins come straight after the league. Teams really need another weeks break, maybe two weeks even.
Munster is far more cutthroat than Leinster where the Dubs are not very consistent.
They are cut throat as teams' season will be over if they don't qualify, regardless of province. A big team will lose out.
As I said, it's unfair that Joe Mc Donagh finalists qualify. This is not fair.
Hence the league is not as important now - championship is too close. Teams need another couple of weeks.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 12, 2023, 09:49:33 PM
They weren't going out after one game though. Getting beat effectively put them in the back door as per the football. I also think the Munster championship isn't what it was. Part of that is teams sick of getting beat by Limerick mind you.
In the last 3 round round robin Munster Championships
Limerick lost a total of 3 games
Predicting the 3 that comes out of Munster every year is a lot trickier than predicting the 3 that comes out of Leinster
The great pity is that Kerry aren't up to it and then they could have a proper 6 team championship
Quote from: clonadmad on February 12, 2023, 10:43:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 12, 2023, 09:49:33 PM
They weren't going out after one game though. Getting beat effectively put them in the back door as per the football. I also think the Munster championship isn't what it was. Part of that is teams sick of getting beat by Limerick mind you.
In the last 3 round round robin Munster Championships
Limerick lost a total of 3 games
Predicting the 3 that comes out of Munster every year is a lot trickier than predicting the 3 that comes out of Leinster
The great pity is that Kerry aren't up to it and then they could have a proper 6 team championship
True.
No reason why Kerry shouldn't be in it.
Quote from: clonadmad on February 12, 2023, 10:43:53 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 12, 2023, 09:49:33 PM
They weren't going out after one game though. Getting beat effectively put them in the back door as per the football. I also think the Munster championship isn't what it was. Part of that is teams sick of getting beat by Limerick mind you.
In the last 3 round round robin Munster Championships
Limerick lost a total of 3 games
Predicting the 3 that comes out of Munster every year is a lot trickier than predicting the 3 that comes out of Leinster
The great pity is that Kerry aren't up to it and then they could have a proper 6 team championship
I think you can safely say Limerick will come out of Munster, any of the other 4 could get either of the other two spare berths..
Leinster in itself is probably harder to call who's the top dog as Wex, KK or Galway may still be slightly ahead of the Dubs who can spring a surprise in one game but would need more than that to get a top 3 berth.
If you were a betting man you could predict Wex, KK and Galway to come out of Leinster but you might struggle to pick a winner especially as I think KK are struggling for a new identity based on yesterdays performance.
If it were knockout though then they could get knocked out in the earlier round if they're not on their game.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 13, 2023, 10:26:15 AM
If it were knockout though then they could get knocked out in the earlier round if they're not on their game.
Put in all that effort at training and be gone after 1 game
Riiiiight
Backdoor. Doesn't have to be a backdoor to munster. It can be a backdoor full stop but one chance to win munster and everyone gets two chances in the AI.Worked before.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 13, 2023, 10:36:33 AM
Backdoor. Doesn't have to be a backdoor to munster. It can be a backdoor full stop but one chance to win munster and everyone gets two chances in the AI.Worked before.
The provincial round robin system works well
Teams get games and a blip in one game isn't the end of your season
We have lads on here about developing and promoting hurling and your talking about reducing the number of high profile games
I am not as convinced as you it does work well though and I don't think that has anything to do with the promotion of hurling. There are some flat games.
Also I would say the league would be better without it as round robin early matches are almost treated as warm up games. Granted munster teams need to be on the ball a bit more from the start but honestly I found some of munster games last year weren't great. You take limerick - clare games out of it and I don't think they were.
Promotion of hurling is fine in top tiers. It's the lower tiers it's not.
Cork boy
https://twitter.com/RTEgaa/status/1624900234659909634
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2023, 11:34:06 AM
Cork boy
https://twitter.com/RTEgaa/status/1624900234659909634
Still not convinced they'll do much come championship. They may well get out of Munster and maybe beat a Wexford or the likes but won't count when Galway, Kilkenny or Limerick are in full flow with their full 15's on.
Cork defence still lacks backbone without the ball.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 13, 2023, 03:22:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2023, 11:34:06 AM
Cork boy
https://twitter.com/RTEgaa/status/1624900234659909634
Still not convinced they'll do much come championship. They may well get out of Munster and maybe beat a Wexford or the likes but won't count when Galway, Kilkenny or Limerick are in full flow with their full 15's on.
Cork defence still lacks backbone without the ball.
I know but at least there are signs of momentum. 2005 was a very long time ago.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 13, 2023, 03:22:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2023, 11:34:06 AM
Cork boy
https://twitter.com/RTEgaa/status/1624900234659909634
Still not convinced they'll do much come championship. They may well get out of Munster and maybe beat a Wexford or the likes but won't count when Galway, Kilkenny or Limerick are in full flow with their full 15's on.
Cork defence still lacks backbone without the ball.
Joyce will be their No. 6 for next 5 or 6 years so that'll tie that position down. He's a propr holding chb rather that a wing back playing at centre back and buzzing about everywhere.
Downey at full back looks ok. Seems to be getting his chance in there and taking it. Is he a brother of Robert Downey?
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/12/dublin-hold-off-late-antrim-blitz-to-keep-up-unbeaten-run/
Then Molloy added a second Antrim goal in the 66th minute, again from close range, Dublin's nerves suddenly being tested. Antrim simply ran out of road, finishing with 14 wides, manager Darren Gleeson making no secret of where the game was lost.
"It'd be easy for me to focus on the last 15 or 20 minutes," he said, "but what happened in the preceding 50 wasn't up to what we are looking for, no real intensity, didn't lay a glove on them physically in the middle section of the field.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 13, 2023, 03:22:09 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 13, 2023, 11:34:06 AM
Cork boy
https://twitter.com/RTEgaa/status/1624900234659909634
Still not convinced they'll do much come championship. They may well get out of Munster and maybe beat a Wexford or the likes but won't count when Galway, Kilkenny or Limerick are in full flow with their full 15's on.
Cork defence still lacks backbone without the ball.
I'm not convinced by Galway at all, I think Cork would definitely give them a game if they met in the summer
Championship hurling is about doing the iterations. Galway are deeper into the process than Cork.
They were playing with 14 for most of the second half as well.
worth remembering
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/
"In hurling, more so than football, this time of year there is no similarity to what we see in May, June and July. It's all about trying to get your timing right and not to overdo it in these months, in this weather.
"The pace of the game in the Munster Senior League is probably 25% of championship, in my opinion. The league would be more like 50-75% depending on the stage of it.
"That extra 25% comes once championship starts and pitches are better, everything is faster. Can guys can adapt to that, not just physically but also mentally, in terms of decision-making, instinct and having the character to do it?
Tipp took a bit of beating on the injury front in the first 5 minutes of the game vrs Kilkenny;
Following medical assessment of a number of players who sustained injuries recently, the following is an update on each player.
Paddy Cadell suffered a Pivot shift injury to his left knee while playing against Kilkenny in the Allianz hurling league round 2 game in UPMC Nolan Park. On examination it has been confirmed that Paddy has suffered a cruciate ligament tear and will now miss the remainder of the 2023 intercounty season
Cathal Barrett collided with one of his own players during the same fixture , which has resulted in an un displaced fracture to the scapula. Cathal will be required to keep his arm in a sling for the next 3 weeks and at that point he should be able to commence his rehabilitation work. At this point it is expected that Cathal should be in a position to recommence some on field activity in 10 to 12 weeks.
Niall O Meara underwent a scan earlier this week following an injury to his groin picked up in a recent training session. Examination confirmed a tear of the adductor origin .Niall will commence his rehabilitation and at this point and it is hopeful that Niall can commence full training again in 6 to 7 weeks.
Injuries could determine the all Ireland.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 15, 2023, 04:25:23 PM
Tipp took a bit of beating on the injury front in the first 5 minutes of the game vrs Kilkenny;
Following medical assessment of a number of players who sustained injuries recently, the following is an update on each player.
Paddy Cadell suffered a Pivot shift injury to his left knee while playing against Kilkenny in the Allianz hurling league round 2 game in UPMC Nolan Park. On examination it has been confirmed that Paddy has suffered a cruciate ligament tear and will now miss the remainder of the 2023 intercounty season
Cathal Barrett collided with one of his own players during the same fixture , which has resulted in an un displaced fracture to the scapula. Cathal will be required to keep his arm in a sling for the next 3 weeks and at that point he should be able to commence his rehabilitation work. At this point it is expected that Cathal should be in a position to recommence some on field activity in 10 to 12 weeks.
Niall O Meara underwent a scan earlier this week following an injury to his groin picked up in a recent training session. Examination confirmed a tear of the adductor origin .Niall will commence his rehabilitation and at this point and it is hopeful that Niall can commence full training again in 6 to 7 weeks.
Bubbles has retired from county now too.
Quote from: mouview on February 16, 2023, 01:23:46 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on February 15, 2023, 04:25:23 PM
Tipp took a bit of beating on the injury front in the first 5 minutes of the game vrs Kilkenny;
Following medical assessment of a number of players who sustained injuries recently, the following is an update on each player.
Paddy Cadell suffered a Pivot shift injury to his left knee while playing against Kilkenny in the Allianz hurling league round 2 game in UPMC Nolan Park. On examination it has been confirmed that Paddy has suffered a cruciate ligament tear and will now miss the remainder of the 2023 intercounty season
Cathal Barrett collided with one of his own players during the same fixture , which has resulted in an un displaced fracture to the scapula. Cathal will be required to keep his arm in a sling for the next 3 weeks and at that point he should be able to commence his rehabilitation work. At this point it is expected that Cathal should be in a position to recommence some on field activity in 10 to 12 weeks.
Niall O Meara underwent a scan earlier this week following an injury to his groin picked up in a recent training session. Examination confirmed a tear of the adductor origin .Niall will commence his rehabilitation and at this point and it is hopeful that Niall can commence full training again in 6 to 7 weeks.
Bubbles has retired from county now too.
And Dillon Quirke died tragically. A serious hurler. Like Niall Donohue, he might have become the captain in a different scenario.
So motion 37 was passed. Central council will implement standards for hurley sizes. A step in the right direction IMO. Interesting to see how they will implement it and what the criteria will be.
Size of bas?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2023, 04:21:36 PM
Size of bas?
No details given but surely the bas is the subject to change.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2023, 04:21:36 PM
Size of bas?
Maybe enforce the maximum 13cm bas size that's in place already
Quote from: clonadmad on February 19, 2023, 05:46:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2023, 04:21:36 PM
Size of bas?
Maybe enforce the maximum 13cm bas size that's in place already
Hopefully they'll hand out a template to the ref's lol!! I'm not running around with a measuring tape
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2023, 06:16:53 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 19, 2023, 05:46:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2023, 04:21:36 PM
Size of bas?
Maybe enforce the maximum 13cm bas size that's in place already
Hopefully they'll hand out a template to the ref's lol!! I'm not running around with a measuring tape
The keeper would be the place to start
Quote from: clonadmad on February 19, 2023, 07:03:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2023, 06:16:53 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 19, 2023, 05:46:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2023, 04:21:36 PM
Size of bas?
Maybe enforce the maximum 13cm bas size that's in place already
Hopefully they'll hand out a template to the ref's lol!! I'm not running around with a measuring tape
The keeper would be the place to start
Like I said, I'll not be running about with a measuring tape
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2023, 07:40:59 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 19, 2023, 07:03:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2023, 06:16:53 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 19, 2023, 05:46:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2023, 04:21:36 PM
Size of bas?
Maybe enforce the maximum 13cm bas size that's in place already
Hopefully they'll hand out a template to the ref's lol!! I'm not running around with a measuring tape
The keeper would be the place to start
Like I said, I'll not be running about with a measuring tape
Good lad
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/02/20/gaa-congress-haunted-by-kilmacud-glen-controversy/
19 to allow Kerry hurlers compete in the Munster championship should they win the Joe McDonagh Cup. Previously they would have been obliged in those circumstances to play off against the bottom team in the Munster round robin. Automatic relegation to apply to the province that has six teams. This was proposed by Kerry and the Munster Council. 98-2
Liam Griffin on growing hurling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iihX7vN2r0&t=5640s
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2023, 05:41:03 PM
Liam Griffin on growing hurling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iihX7vN2r0&t=5640s
His motion was shot to bits by the football counties at convention
Quote from: clonadmad on February 24, 2023, 05:53:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2023, 05:41:03 PM
Liam Griffin on growing hurling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iihX7vN2r0&t=5640s
His motion was shot to bits by the football counties at convention
It was- but he will be back because this is both important and in the GAA's interest.
Here is the report he mentioned
https://www.sportireland.ie/news/benefits-of-sport-on-irish-society-and-economy-confirmed-by-new-study
Quote from: clonadmad on February 24, 2023, 05:53:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2023, 05:41:03 PM
Liam Griffin on growing hurling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iihX7vN2r0&t=5640s
His motion was shot to bits by the football counties at convention
Are those the same counties that say the GAA are doing nothing to promote hurling in weaker counties?
Joe Canning on smothering Limerick
Limerick JC https://twitter.com/RTEgaa/status/1629966425442992129
OTB on Galway v Limerick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbz1FUHIh1I&t=6765s
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2023, 05:41:03 PM
Liam Griffin on growing hurling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iihX7vN2r0&t=5640s
A good idea for a motion but some of the practicalities are challenging.
The biggest problem is that football focussed clubs and counties have no interest in promoting hurling.
It's like baseball depending on basketball people to promote baseball.
Quote from: The Wedger on February 27, 2023, 01:20:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on February 24, 2023, 05:41:03 PM
Liam Griffin on growing hurling
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iihX7vN2r0&t=5640s
A good idea for a motion but some of the practicalities are challenging.
The biggest problem is that football focussed clubs and counties have no interest in promoting hurling.
It's like baseball depending on basketball people to promote baseball.
Some of the skills can be transferred
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2023, 06:16:53 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on February 19, 2023, 05:46:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 19, 2023, 04:21:36 PM
Size of bas?
Maybe enforce the maximum 13cm bas size that's in place already
Hopefully they'll hand out a template to the ref's lol!! I'm not running around with a measuring tape
They can make a cut out template that the hurl must be able to pass through.
A bit like the Ryanair frame that carry on bags must squeeze through, or else they are considered over sized.
Smuggling oversized sticks may then become like the sliotar wars of a few years ago, where Cork players were smuggling illegal sliotars onto the pitch in their shorts.
Limerick looking decent but Galway are probably still one of the teams able to match them in the physicality and that unpredictability of Galway will always keep Limerick on their toes.
Some new faces in the Galway side showing up well, some very light looking but good to give them their break in the league with no real impact.
Hayes in a bit of bother with a one handed belt, he can consider himself lucky no one seems to have seen it..
I think the whole world minus Kiely saw it ;D
Canning right you need to press them from the full back line but easier said than done.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 28, 2023, 11:59:31 AM
I think the whole world minus Kiely saw it ;D
Canning right you need to press them from the full back line but easier said than done.
Canning has a point but then you need attackers who're able to prevent the Limerick defenders from breaking passed them, easier said than done, but certainly under their puckouts, go man for man and see where that gets you.
Currently everyone is funnelling back to be defensive yet the Limerick lads are either able to work it up to midfield and take their points from range or hit the spaces for their forwards to run into. Yes they've no real goal threat but they don't need one currently.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 28, 2023, 11:52:11 AM
Limerick looking decent but Galway are probably still one of the teams able to match them in the physicality and that unpredictability of Galway will always keep Limerick on their toes.
Some new faces in the Galway side showing up well, some very light looking but good to give them their break in the league with no real impact.
Hayes in a bit of bother with a one handed belt, he can consider himself lucky no one seems to have seen it..
Galway way off in terms of physicality, have been for 3/4 seasons now. One of the least strongest teams out there now I would suggest.
I might have missed this in the chat, but what's going on with Aaron Gillane then? Not on the panel for the rumoured altercation with rugby star or what's the story
Limerick have superb accuracy but teams have to try to stop it at source.
Quote from: harryR on February 28, 2023, 04:05:39 PM
I might have missed this in the chat, but what's going on with Aaron Gillane then? Not on the panel for the rumoured altercation with rugby star or what's the story
Playing well for Creeves Celtic soccer team these days.
Quote from: harryR on February 28, 2023, 04:05:39 PM
I might have missed this in the chat, but what's going on with Aaron Gillane then? Not on the panel for the rumoured altercation with rugby star or what's the story
Alleged court case pending...
Quote from: johnnycool on March 02, 2023, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: harryR on February 28, 2023, 04:05:39 PM
I might have missed this in the chat, but what's going on with Aaron Gillane then? Not on the panel for the rumoured altercation with rugby star or what's the story
Alleged court case pending...
Heard similar, Limerick are in the position that they dont need to entertain the drama.
Fair bit of needle in this game. Been lacking a bit in the league so far.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2023, 07:50:01 PM
Fair bit of needle in this game. Been lacking a bit in the league so far.
They certainly dpn't seem to like each other. Cracking match though. Although the second goal and the red card have probably done for Waterford
Enjoyed that. Still think tipp are maybe a bit too much of a hit it on top of the forwards as opposed to work it precisely in but they have plenty of good forwards so it will work against most.
Davy was kind of out davyed there.
Tipp seem ahead of the rest in terms of fitness levels, the gamble is getting it right for championship
Good win for Antrim
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2023, 07:16:30 PM
Good win for Antrim
Antrim had to win ugly today, which matched the weather, so get any injuries sorted and prepare for championship which will bring us forward
The league in hurling is pretty meaningless compared to football.
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2023, 12:54:46 PM
The league in hurling is pretty meaningless compared to football.
revert back to what it was 4/5 years ago
when you had a top 6 Division 1
and the likes of Limerick Galway and Clare trying to get promoted out of Div2
Quote from: clonadmad on March 13, 2023, 01:23:58 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2023, 12:54:46 PM
The league in hurling is pretty meaningless compared to football.
revert back to what it was 4/5 years ago
when you had a top 6 Division 1
and the likes of Limerick Galway and Clare trying to get promoted out of Div2
Revert back to four divisions of 8 with two up two down. Seven league matches guaranteed 3 at home at least and something to play for in almost every match.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 02, 2023, 09:15:32 AM
Quote from: harryR on February 28, 2023, 04:05:39 PM
I might have missed this in the chat, but what's going on with Aaron Gillane then? Not on the panel for the rumoured altercation with rugby star or what's the story
Alleged court case pending...
Must have been sorted before getting that far 🤷
I don't think that having 2x6 is the problem. There is no link to the championship
The championship is far more important
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 12, 2023, 09:24:08 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2023, 07:16:30 PM
Good win for Antrim
Antrim had to win ugly today, which matched the weather, so get any injuries sorted and prepare for championship which will bring us forward
Antrim are safe. Laois go into the relegation playoff
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2023, 02:50:30 PM
I don't think that having 2x6 is the problem. There is no link to the championship
The championship is far more important
It's always been that way for as long as I can remember.
The problem with the league is that the games are actually meaningless as the top teams know they've only Laois/Antrim/Westmeath to beat to keep their status quo, but that's the way they wanted it.
I'd prefer the 4 x 8, two up, two down but the big counties don't want to have to avoid going into a Div2 with the riff raff.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 14, 2023, 10:28:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2023, 02:50:30 PM
I don't think that having 2x6 is the problem. There is no link to the championship
The championship is far more important
It's always been that way for as long as I can remember.
The problem with the league is that the games are actually meaningless as the top teams know they've only Laois/Antrim/Westmeath to beat to keep their status quo, but that's the way they wanted it.
I'd prefer the 4 x 8, two up, two down but the big counties don't want to have to avoid going into a Div2 with the riff raff.
Johnny, bit of a struggle against Derry at home at the weekend? salvaged a draw by the looks of it
Quote from: johnnycool on March 14, 2023, 10:28:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2023, 02:50:30 PM
I don't think that having 2x6 is the problem. There is no link to the championship
The championship is far more important
It's always been that way for as long as I can remember.
The problem with the league is that the games are actually meaningless as the top teams know they've only Laois/Antrim/Westmeath to beat to keep their status quo, but that's the way they wanted it.
I'd prefer the 4 x 8, two up, two down but the big counties don't want to have to avoid going into a Div2 with the riff raff.
I think there are 2 challenges. Making the league relevant and developing the game.
the League could have a guaranteed place in or a playoff for the last 6 as a prize. That would get counties interested.
Maybe Divisional teams would work for the developing counties. It is hard to see Antrim etc developing with such a small hurling footprint. Widening these is a long term project.
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2023, 11:30:24 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 14, 2023, 10:28:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2023, 02:50:30 PM
I don't think that having 2x6 is the problem. There is no link to the championship
The championship is far more important
It's always been that way for as long as I can remember.
The problem with the league is that the games are actually meaningless as the top teams know they've only Laois/Antrim/Westmeath to beat to keep their status quo, but that's the way they wanted it.
I'd prefer the 4 x 8, two up, two down but the big counties don't want to have to avoid going into a Div2 with the riff raff.
I think there are 2 challenges. Making the league relevant and developing the game.
the League could have a guaranteed place in or a playoff for the last 6 as a prize. That would get counties interested.
Maybe Divisional teams would work for the developing counties. It is hard to see Antrim etc developing with such a small hurling footprint. Widening these is a long term project.
No they wouldn't...
Would Laois and Offaly "merge" to be more competitive in Leinster? Are you then denying two groups of 24/30 hurlers a chance to develop over the one group and then what sort of buy in would the players give to it?
Quote from: johnnycool on March 14, 2023, 01:53:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2023, 11:30:24 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 14, 2023, 10:28:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2023, 02:50:30 PM
I don't think that having 2x6 is the problem. There is no link to the championship
The championship is far more important
It's always been that way for as long as I can remember.
The problem with the league is that the games are actually meaningless as the top teams know they've only Laois/Antrim/Westmeath to beat to keep their status quo, but that's the way they wanted it.
I'd prefer the 4 x 8, two up, two down but the big counties don't want to have to avoid going into a Div2 with the riff raff.
I think there are 2 challenges. Making the league relevant and developing the game.
the League could have a guaranteed place in or a playoff for the last 6 as a prize. That would get counties interested.
Maybe Divisional teams would work for the developing counties. It is hard to see Antrim etc developing with such a small hurling footprint. Widening these is a long term project.
No they wouldn't...
Would Laois and Offaly "merge" to be more competitive in Leinster? Are you then denying two groups of 24/30 hurlers a chance to develop over the one group and then what sort of buy in would the players give to it?
Well, if they wouldn't the only thing to do is grow the hurling footprint in each of the relevant counties.
Until then club all Irelands will be the ceiling.
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2023, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 14, 2023, 01:53:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2023, 11:30:24 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 14, 2023, 10:28:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2023, 02:50:30 PM
I don't think that having 2x6 is the problem. There is no link to the championship
The championship is far more important
It's always been that way for as long as I can remember.
The problem with the league is that the games are actually meaningless as the top teams know they've only Laois/Antrim/Westmeath to beat to keep their status quo, but that's the way they wanted it.
I'd prefer the 4 x 8, two up, two down but the big counties don't want to have to avoid going into a Div2 with the riff raff.
I think there are 2 challenges. Making the league relevant and developing the game.
the League could have a guaranteed place in or a playoff for the last 6 as a prize. That would get counties interested.
Maybe Divisional teams would work for the developing counties. It is hard to see Antrim etc developing with such a small hurling footprint. Widening these is a long term project.
No they wouldn't...
Would Laois and Offaly "merge" to be more competitive in Leinster? Are you then denying two groups of 24/30 hurlers a chance to develop over the one group and then what sort of buy in would the players give to it?
Well, if they wouldn't the only thing to do is grow the hurling footprint in each of the relevant counties.
Until then club all Irelands will be the ceiling.
You say that like it's a bad thing ;)
In terms of resources the club championships are a more even playing field, I don't think the likes of Laois, Antrim, Carlow could ever make the same resources available that are currently available to lads in Limerick, Cork, KK, heck even Clare who are the poor relations in this company.
That's the reality and those resources will be no different in an amalgamation.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 14, 2023, 04:15:34 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2023, 02:58:09 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 14, 2023, 01:53:47 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 14, 2023, 11:30:24 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 14, 2023, 10:28:42 AM
Quote from: seafoid on March 13, 2023, 02:50:30 PM
I don't think that having 2x6 is the problem. There is no link to the championship
The championship is far more important
It's always been that way for as long as I can remember.
The problem with the league is that the games are actually meaningless as the top teams know they've only Laois/Antrim/Westmeath to beat to keep their status quo, but that's the way they wanted it.
I'd prefer the 4 x 8, two up, two down but the big counties don't want to have to avoid going into a Div2 with the riff raff.
I think there are 2 challenges. Making the league relevant and developing the game.
the League could have a guaranteed place in or a playoff for the last 6 as a prize. That would get counties interested.
Maybe Divisional teams would work for the developing counties. It is hard to see Antrim etc developing with such a small hurling footprint. Widening these is a long term project.
No they wouldn't...
Would Laois and Offaly "merge" to be more competitive in Leinster? Are you then denying two groups of 24/30 hurlers a chance to develop over the one group and then what sort of buy in would the players give to it?
Well, if they wouldn't the only thing to do is grow the hurling footprint in each of the relevant counties.
Until then club all Irelands will be the ceiling.
You say that like it's a bad thing ;)
In terms of resources the club championships are a more even playing field, I don't think the likes of Laois, Antrim, Carlow could ever make the same resources available that are currently available to lads in Limerick, Cork, KK, heck even Clare who are the poor relations in this company.
That's the reality and those resources will be no different in an amalgamation.
Limerick now is an anomaly compared to the last 50 years. Pre JPM they were not so fluirseach. Hurling needs some imagination.
The money in the game could be split more evenly as in the US. Players could be transferred from bigger counties. There has to be a systemic review imo.
Most strong counties have a strong senior county league and championship and while the likes of Ballyhale Ballygunner and NP in Limerick do dominate their counties, it snot long before there is another team, Ballyhale will or have had their biggest tests in Kilkenny, so the depth and standard of club teams in these counties fills the county panels and gives a manager a far better skill/physical pick of players.
Laois, Carlow, Antrim, Westmeath, Kerry don't have more that 3 competitive teams challenging for honours I'd say at senior level, the standard in intermediate in some counties would be competitive with some of the best teams I've mentioned above
From an Antrim perspective we need to be unearthing more players and S&C needs done from about 4th year up, on top of developing the natural skills
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 15, 2023, 08:48:34 AM
Most strong counties have a strong senior county league and championship and while the likes of Ballyhale Ballygunner and NP in Limerick do dominate their counties, it snot long before there is another team, Ballyhale will or have had their biggest tests in Kilkenny, so the depth and standard of club teams in these counties fills the county panels and gives a manager a far better skill/physical pick of players.
Laois, Carlow, Antrim, Westmeath, Kerry don't have more that 3 competitive teams challenging for honours I'd say at senior level, the standard in intermediate in some counties would be competitive with some of the best teams I've mentioned above
From an Antrim perspective we need to be unearthing more players and S&C needs done from about 4th year up, on top of developing the natural skills
Ballyhale come with a great team every generation. In between a variety of clubs become county champions. Kilkenny wouldn't be the best example because hurling is a religion there. In Galway the geographical spread of hurlers is much wider. This is the issue for the developing counties. I don't think the GAA does enough in this area.
Rugby is looking at a Nations championship to bring North and South together. They have 3 goals
1 a global champion
2. engaging the fan base more than is the case currently
3. providing a pathway for rugby's emerging nations to improve and progress in order to benefit competition.
Hurling doesn't have a pathway for developing counties.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/03/16/ciaran-murphy-what-can-we-do-with-the-league-to-make-it-matter-again/
Jamie Wall, well-known hurling analyst and coach of the Mary Immaculate College Fitzgibbon Cup team, wasn't long in giving me some well-intentioned feedback. Instead of making the Munster and Leinster group stages home and away, as I had suggested, Jamie wanted to draw up two conferences of seven teams each, starting in March.
They would be drawn up from scratch each year, with teams from both provinces evenly divided to ensure that each conference remains even and competitive, and to ensure that counties keep playing as many different teams as possible.
Teams play each other home and away. The top three teams in each group would qualify for the All-Ireland championship. The winners of the two conferences would qualify for the All-Ireland semi-finals, and the teams placed second and third would play All-Ireland quarter-finals.
Limerick manager John Kiely and Galway manager Henry Shefflin shake hands after their Allianz Hurling League Division 1 Group A game at Pearse Stadium in Galway on February 26th. Photograph: Tom Maher/Inpho
You will have some questions, I'm sure, primarily perhaps about the status of the Munster and Leinster championships. Jamie's answer to that was ingenious. It takes three weekends to play off the two provincial championships. So if the conference group games start in March, you sprinkle in the provincial championship games like the FA Cup throughout a Premier League season.
You play the quarter-finals of the provincial championships on the May bank holiday weekend. You play the semi-finals on the June bank holiday weekend. And you play the provincial finals at the start of July between the All-Ireland quarter- and semi-finals.
They're not linked to the All-Ireland championship at all, but they remain important, knock-out competitions in their own right, with teams out of the running for the All-Ireland able to regain a measure of success from the year with a provincial final win. And those games would redress the balance between knock-out games, which we all grew up watching and admiring, and the league play of the two conferences.
[ The only certainty about the hurling league is that it is providing lots of uncertainty ]
The reason for seven teams? That was illustrated most effectively just last weekend.
In Division 1B Antrim and Laois had one game they had to win to avoid relegation: the game against each other. Antrim had home advantage for it, and that might have been the deciding factor. If there are two seven-team conferences (instead of the six-team divisions in the league), then their season, and Laois's season, and that of whoever else can force their way in, will not depend on beating the one other "weak" team in their vicinity, or indeed on the vagaries of being at home or away for that one fixture.
The five Munster counties, plus Galway, Kilkenny and Wexford, are currently a cut above. But would any of the teams named above be afraid of an awful trimming from Dublin at the moment? Depending on whether you put Dublin above or below that line, you're looking at either six or five teams in the category of "development" teams.
They would take a few beatings, but they would also get a chance to play at least four games against teams they would fancy beating. And they'd be a part of the big show. The bottom teams in each group would play a relegation playoff, and one team would be promoted.
Seven-team conferences would necessitate an early March start, and maybe a late July finish. If that was too tight (keeping in mind every team in a seven-team league would have two bye weeks), then even six-team conferences would be worth experimenting with. Anything but what we've been watching recently.
People who would try to tell you that the league isn't in such a bad shape might tell you to look at the crowds this year, which on the main have continued to look fairly healthy. I'd be inclined to say that if they'll turn out for this sham, imagine how interested they'd be in hurling that actually mattered in spring?
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
Like the Ulster football provincial.
Not sure if it up to Munster and Leinster though.
It starts with clubs and more importantly, counties.
Quote from: marty34 on March 20, 2023, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
Like the Ulster football provincial.
Not sure if it up to Munster and Leinster though.
It starts with clubs and more importantly, counties.
This is how it works within the GAA, delegates, county secretaries will be put under pressure by being told "vote this way or you can say goodbye to your GDO's" or some other grant/incentive will be applied..
The development of hurling has been left to the hurling elite yet we're shocked to see that the gap isn't closing between them and the "developing" counties.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 09:07:56 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 20, 2023, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
Like the Ulster football provincial.
Not sure if it up to Munster and Leinster though.
It starts with clubs and more importantly, counties.
This is how it works within the GAA, delegates, county secretaries will be put under pressure by being told "vote this way or you can say goodbye to your GDO's" or some other grant/incentive will be applied..
The development of hurling has been left to the hurling elite yet we're shocked to see that the gap isn't closing between them and the "developing" counties.
Counties have to develop more club players and more senior teams to a certain level and that buck to a point stops with clubs and how they develop their kids. These commitments are the same for kids in Cork and Down at club level, what happens when they hit the age of 14? How does that gap start to grow to a point that can't be matched again?
Are we looking at schools hurling development? Club development, lack of effort, kids falling out of interest and so on? What are the likes of Tipp doing to keep the standards high from those ages up? Physicality is another thing too but there has been conversations do you start looking at size rather than skill then improve those big lads skill levels as we move on?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 20, 2023, 10:16:14 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 09:07:56 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 20, 2023, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
Like the Ulster football provincial.
Not sure if it up to Munster and Leinster though.
It starts with clubs and more importantly, counties.
This is how it works within the GAA, delegates, county secretaries will be put under pressure by being told "vote this way or you can say goodbye to your GDO's" or some other grant/incentive will be applied..
The development of hurling has been left to the hurling elite yet we're shocked to see that the gap isn't closing between them and the "developing" counties.
Counties have to develop more club players and more senior teams to a certain level and that buck to a point stops with clubs and how they develop their kids. These commitments are the same for kids in Cork and Down at club level, what happens when they hit the age of 14? How does that gap start to grow to a point that can't be matched again?
Are we looking at schools hurling development? Club development, lack of effort, kids falling out of interest and so on? What are the likes of Tipp doing to keep the standards high from those ages up? Physicality is another thing too but there has been conversations do you start looking at size rather than skill then improve those big lads skill levels as we move on?
It'd be good to see the breakdown of hurling clubs in each county.
At senior level and underage level.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 09:07:56 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 20, 2023, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
Like the Ulster football provincial.
Not sure if it up to Munster and Leinster though.
It starts with clubs and more importantly, counties.
This is how it works within the GAA, delegates, county secretaries will be put under pressure by being told "vote this way or you can say goodbye to your GDO's" or some other grant/incentive will be applied..
The development of hurling has been left to the hurling elite yet we're shocked to see that the gap isn't closing between them and the "developing" counties.
there's been no director of Hurling appointed since Martin Fogarty left the post on the 23/12/21
but yeah blame the hurling "elite"
who ever they are
Hurling Registered Playing Population
Cork (25,600)
Tipperary (14,260)
Dublin (13,980)
Galway (12,520)
Kilkenny (10,080)
Limerick (9,980)
if You want to win an All Ireland, Chances are you will need over 9k registered Players
131 Hurling Clubs in the Whole of Ulster v 210 in Cork alone
Quote from: clonadmad on March 20, 2023, 01:19:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 09:07:56 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 20, 2023, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
Like the Ulster football provincial.
Not sure if it up to Munster and Leinster though.
It starts with clubs and more importantly, counties.
This is how it works within the GAA, delegates, county secretaries will be put under pressure by being told "vote this way or you can say goodbye to your GDO's" or some other grant/incentive will be applied..
The development of hurling has been left to the hurling elite yet we're shocked to see that the gap isn't closing between them and the "developing" counties.
there's been no director of Hurling appointed since Martin Fogarty left the post on the 23/12/21
but yeah blame the hurling "elite"
who ever they are
Why, what did Martin do during his tenure that I missed?
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 02:17:06 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 20, 2023, 01:19:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 09:07:56 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 20, 2023, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
Like the Ulster football provincial.
Not sure if it up to Munster and Leinster though.
It starts with clubs and more importantly, counties.
This is how it works within the GAA, delegates, county secretaries will be put under pressure by being told "vote this way or you can say goodbye to your GDO's" or some other grant/incentive will be applied..
The development of hurling has been left to the hurling elite yet we're shocked to see that the gap isn't closing between them and the "developing" counties.
there's been no director of Hurling appointed since Martin Fogarty left the post on the 23/12/21
but yeah blame the hurling "elite"
who ever they are
Why, what did Martin do during his tenure that I missed?
well done on missing my point
As for the Hurling Elites you keep mentioning
Who are they ?
Quote from: clonadmad on March 20, 2023, 02:31:17 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 02:17:06 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 20, 2023, 01:19:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 09:07:56 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 20, 2023, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
Like the Ulster football provincial.
Not sure if it up to Munster and Leinster though.
It starts with clubs and more importantly, counties.
This is how it works within the GAA, delegates, county secretaries will be put under pressure by being told "vote this way or you can say goodbye to your GDO's" or some other grant/incentive will be applied..
The development of hurling has been left to the hurling elite yet we're shocked to see that the gap isn't closing between them and the "developing" counties.
there's been no director of Hurling appointed since Martin Fogarty left the post on the 23/12/21
but yeah blame the hurling "elite"
who ever they are
Why, what did Martin do during his tenure that I missed?
well done on missing my point
As for the Hurling Elites you keep mentioning
Who are they ?
They are those lads from the traditional hurling counties who sit on committees allegedly to develop hurling but only ever come up with proposals to solidify their own counties position or think that what works in Tipp will work in Meath or Kildare..
Ever ask why the CR and Nicky Rackard finals are no longer on before the Liam McCarthy semi-finals? Even wonder why the current league format came about rather than the previous Div1A and Div1B's of 8 teams?
Quote from: johnnycool on March 21, 2023, 09:38:31 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 20, 2023, 02:31:17 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 02:17:06 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on March 20, 2023, 01:19:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 09:07:56 AM
Quote from: marty34 on March 20, 2023, 08:43:31 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
Like the Ulster football provincial.
Not sure if it up to Munster and Leinster though.
It starts with clubs and more importantly, counties.
This is how it works within the GAA, delegates, county secretaries will be put under pressure by being told "vote this way or you can say goodbye to your GDO's" or some other grant/incentive will be applied..
The development of hurling has been left to the hurling elite yet we're shocked to see that the gap isn't closing between them and the "developing" counties.
there's been no director of Hurling appointed since Martin Fogarty left the post on the 23/12/21
but yeah blame the hurling "elite"
who ever they are
Why, what did Martin do during his tenure that I missed?
well done on missing my point
As for the Hurling Elites you keep mentioning
Who are they ?
They are those lads from the traditional hurling counties who sit on committees allegedly to develop hurling but only ever come up with proposals to solidify their own counties position or think that what works in Tipp will work in Meath or Kildare..
Ever ask why the CR and Nicky Rackard finals are no longer on before the Liam McCarthy semi-finals? Even wonder why the current league format came about rather than the previous Div1A and Div1B's of 8 teams?
The Lads that sit on Hurling Development Committees can only make Recommendations
They cant force anything through
As regards the downgrading of the lower grade Hurling Competitions, that was done at Central Council Level and not by any Hurling Committee which you seem to have such enmity towards
Liam Griffin put a proposal to Congress recently with regard to every Club having to have a u7/u9 Hurling Team, It was shot down in Flames
What way did your County vote?
You could do a lot worse than learn from the traditional counties as to what works and what doesn't.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
the Munster Hurling Championship has nearly double the attendance of its next nearest Provincial Competition, which is the Ulster Football Championship
No one is going to wreck that competition for the sake of Counties who cant get their act together for the past 140 years
Change has to come from the top down.
The history of modern hurling is the history of dragging out concessions from the old firm.
They always used skill as a barrier to entry.
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2023, 10:31:32 AM
Change has to come from the top down.
The history of modern hurling is the history of dragging out concessions from the old firm.
They always used skill as a barrier to entry.
Another Lad that doesnt know how things work
Change or Concessions as you like to call them are brought about by votes in Congress where Delegates from every County vote for or against proposals brought forward by a club
Thats how your Minors ended up in the Leinster Championship this year.
Theres a reason why Counties are weak and it starts and ends with those Counties
Start with your own house before blaming those who are doing things right in theirs
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on March 21, 2023, 10:16:28 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
the Munster Hurling Championship has nearly double the attendance of its next nearest Provincial Competition, which is the Ulster Football Championship
No one is going to wreck that competition for the sake of Counties who cant get their act together for the past 140 years
At least you are honest.
As regards the downgrading of the lower grade Hurling Competitions, that was done at Central Council Level and not by any Hurling Committee which you seem to have such enmity towardsAnd who was president at the time? A certain Nicky Brennan from Kilkenny who was more interesting in returning the minor semi-finals to those dates than allowing the CR and Nicky Rackard to maintain those dates. Why else would Central Council have made those changes?
Quote from: johnnycool on March 21, 2023, 12:12:23 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on March 21, 2023, 10:16:28 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
the Munster Hurling Championship has nearly double the attendance of its next nearest Provincial Competition, which is the Ulster Football Championship
No one is going to wreck that competition for the sake of Counties who cant get their act together for the past 140 years
At least you are honest.
As regards the downgrading of the lower grade Hurling Competitions, that was done at Central Council Level and not by any Hurling Committee which you seem to have such enmity towards
And who was president at the time? A certain Nicky Brennan from Kilkenny who was more interesting in returning the minor semi-finals to those dates than allowing the CR and Nicky Rackard to maintain those dates. Why else would Central Council have made those changes?
The sense of victimhood is strong here
First the Hurling Elites
the stronger Hurling Counties
and now Nickey Brennan
Much and all as I love to blame Kilkenny for everything
Nickey Brennan was 1 man with 1 vote, there was more than him to relegate the lower hurling competitions to the wilderness
as if having them on before a Hurling Semifinal was going to be the cure for all the weaker counties Hurling Problems either
it might also have passed your attention that the Minor Hurling last year was a standalone competition with the final on in a packed Nowlan Park between Tipp and Offaly who in fairness to them are doing something about get ack to where they were in the 80' and 90's.
Bottom Line
As pointed out earlier
You will need over 9,000 players to win an All Ireland nowadays
Getting to those numbers requires huge work,rather than blaming everyone else
https://twitter.com/TheGAADiplomat/status/1638214240069615616
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on March 21, 2023, 02:02:57 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 21, 2023, 12:12:23 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on March 21, 2023, 10:16:28 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
the Munster Hurling Championship has nearly double the attendance of its next nearest Provincial Competition, which is the Ulster Football Championship
No one is going to wreck that competition for the sake of Counties who cant get their act together for the past 140 years
At least you are honest.
As regards the downgrading of the lower grade Hurling Competitions, that was done at Central Council Level and not by any Hurling Committee which you seem to have such enmity towards
And who was president at the time? A certain Nicky Brennan from Kilkenny who was more interesting in returning the minor semi-finals to those dates than allowing the CR and Nicky Rackard to maintain those dates. Why else would Central Council have made those changes?
The sense of victimhood is strong here
First the Hurling Elites
the stronger Hurling Counties
and now Nickey Brennan
Much and all as I love to blame Kilkenny for everything
Nickey Brennan was 1 man with 1 vote, there was more than him to relegate the lower hurling competitions to the wilderness
as if having them on before a Hurling Semifinal was going to be the cure for all the weaker counties Hurling Problems either
it might also have passed your attention that the Minor Hurling last year was a standalone competition with the final on in a packed Nowlan Park between Tipp and Offaly who in fairness to them are doing something about get ack to where they were in the 80' and 90's.
Bottom Line
As pointed out earlier
You will need over 9,000 players to win an All Ireland nowadays
Getting to those numbers requires huge work,rather than blaming everyone else
Not every county is capable of winning an AI hence the reason I'm all on for the various grades in intercounty hurling championship, it's the false platitudes and in some cases downright arrogance of some with their plans to improve hurling in areas they know nothing about the issues faced in those areas;
Make up of the 2020 Hurling committee
Tipp x2
Galway x2
Cork x1
KK x1
Antrim x1
Limerick x1
Clare x1
Waterford x1
With the best will in the world and I know some have coached outside their own county most notable Paul Flynn who was up in Down for a year, what would these lads and one lady know what the issues are facing Fermanagh or Tyrone hurlers, let alone in Meath, Kildare, Westmeath and the likes.
There needs to be more voices from these areas on these focus groups to give a more rounded approach to hurling and it's development.
Once Down get the lads in Donaghadee, Bangor, Newtownards, East Belfast and Dundonald hurling we'll give Tipp a run for their money. ;)
Quote from: johnnycool on March 22, 2023, 11:57:45 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on March 21, 2023, 02:02:57 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 21, 2023, 12:12:23 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on March 21, 2023, 10:16:28 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
the Munster Hurling Championship has nearly double the attendance of its next nearest Provincial Competition, which is the Ulster Football Championship
No one is going to wreck that competition for the sake of Counties who cant get their act together for the past 140 years
At least you are honest.
As regards the downgrading of the lower grade Hurling Competitions, that was done at Central Council Level and not by any Hurling Committee which you seem to have such enmity towards
And who was president at the time? A certain Nicky Brennan from Kilkenny who was more interesting in returning the minor semi-finals to those dates than allowing the CR and Nicky Rackard to maintain those dates. Why else would Central Council have made those changes?
The sense of victimhood is strong here
First the Hurling Elites
the stronger Hurling Counties
and now Nickey Brennan
Much and all as I love to blame Kilkenny for everything
Nickey Brennan was 1 man with 1 vote, there was more than him to relegate the lower hurling competitions to the wilderness
as if having them on before a Hurling Semifinal was going to be the cure for all the weaker counties Hurling Problems either
it might also have passed your attention that the Minor Hurling last year was a standalone competition with the final on in a packed Nowlan Park between Tipp and Offaly who in fairness to them are doing something about get ack to where they were in the 80' and 90's.
Bottom Line
As pointed out earlier
You will need over 9,000 players to win an All Ireland nowadays
Getting to those numbers requires huge work,rather than blaming everyone else
Not every county is capable of winning an AI hence the reason I'm all on for the various grades in intercounty hurling championship, it's the false platitudes and in some cases downright arrogance of some with their plans to improve hurling in areas they know nothing about the issues faced in those areas;
Make up of the 2020 Hurling committee
Tipp x2
Galway x2
Cork x1
KK x1
Antrim x1
Limerick x1
Clare x1
Waterford x1
With the best will in the world and I know some have coached outside their own county most notable Paul Flynn who was up in Down for a year, what would these lads and one lady know what the issues are facing Fermanagh or Tyrone hurlers, let alone in Meath, Kildare, Westmeath and the likes.
There needs to be more voices from these areas on these focus groups to give a more rounded approach to hurling and it's development.
Once Down get the lads in Donaghadee, Bangor, Newtownards, East Belfast and Dundonald hurling we'll give Tipp a run for their money. ;)
back to my point of You should be helping yourselves not waiting for anyone to help you, there was no Down Nominee for that committee
I see Down has a Catholic/Nationalist population of around 250,000 people
Bigger than Limerick Tipperary Wexford Clare Waterford
2 and a half times the size of Kilkenny
smaller than only Galway Cork and Dublin of the so called Stronger Counties
and Ye cant grow the game of Hurling !!!!
What sets apart down from the likes of tipp/kilkenny?
Is it facilities, interest, quality of coaching?
Quote from: Upandover on March 22, 2023, 01:15:10 PM
What sets apart down from the likes of tipp/kilkenny?
Is it facilities, interest, quality of coaching?
Hurling footprint eg number of clubs
Relative isolation
The non religious nature of hurling in most of the county
Quote from: Upandover on March 22, 2023, 01:15:10 PM
What sets apart down from the likes of tipp/kilkenny?
Is it facilities, interest, quality of coaching?
Exposure to high level hurling across the age groups is a big issue.
Our minors were recently down in Tipp and played a Tipp minor team, totally blown away but were making a better fist of getting to the speed of the game the longer it went on, but that won't be repeated as the money isn't in Down to support it and the structures aren't in place to force Down CB to support it. Antrim beat them well in whatever form of championship it was this year, so they'll be in Leinster B I believe, but already I'm hearing of interest waning within the team and preferring to train with their clubs.
We've had teams at blitzes in KK, Dublin and the likes and can hold their own against clubs from traditional counties, but at IC level it's a totally different set of resources.
Hurling is by and far the least dominant sport in the GAA in Down, mostly by small, rural clubs so the player pool is small, Portaferry would be the biggest club at the minute and they'd be doing well to have 50 adult hurlers all in. There's more camogie clubs in Down FFS.
It's hard to expand when the next village up from you is Portavogie and they fly union jacks 365 days in the year.
It is improving with the two South Belfast clubs putting in serious effort as well as Castlewellan who've a decent catchment to work from, but there's little to no hurling in Newcastle, Downpatrick and to a lesser extent Newry who are fielding at senior which is good, but they've huge gaps in their underage structures, probably down to so few volunteers can only do so much. I'm not even sure now if Down have a hurling GDO to assist as the last one I was aware of is now working for Gaelfast in Antrim and isn't involved in Down.
IF Martin Fogarty is to be replaced it has to be by someone who isn't interested in coaching ballwall sessions and the likes but someone with an understanding
structures and is prepared to stamp on toes with football dominated County boards, Kilkenny and Tipp don't have that problem.
Give Cathal McErlean a crack at it, a lad who knows exactly what it takes to get hurling going in an area not known for it and also lets stop forcing kids having to chose between either sport which happens far too often in a lot of counties.
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on March 22, 2023, 01:12:02 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 22, 2023, 11:57:45 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on March 21, 2023, 02:02:57 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 21, 2023, 12:12:23 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on March 21, 2023, 10:16:28 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 20, 2023, 08:20:08 AM
There's a lot of good in what Jamie says but it won't happen purely on the basis of the vested interests of the Munster and Leinster councils giving up their cash cows, it ain't going to happen.
Sometimes the hurling elite have no interest in developing hurling outside their own wee cabal.
the Munster Hurling Championship has nearly double the attendance of its next nearest Provincial Competition, which is the Ulster Football Championship
No one is going to wreck that competition for the sake of Counties who cant get their act together for the past 140 years
At least you are honest.
As regards the downgrading of the lower grade Hurling Competitions, that was done at Central Council Level and not by any Hurling Committee which you seem to have such enmity towards
And who was president at the time? A certain Nicky Brennan from Kilkenny who was more interesting in returning the minor semi-finals to those dates than allowing the CR and Nicky Rackard to maintain those dates. Why else would Central Council have made those changes?
The sense of victimhood is strong here
First the Hurling Elites
the stronger Hurling Counties
and now Nickey Brennan
Much and all as I love to blame Kilkenny for everything
Nickey Brennan was 1 man with 1 vote, there was more than him to relegate the lower hurling competitions to the wilderness
as if having them on before a Hurling Semifinal was going to be the cure for all the weaker counties Hurling Problems either
it might also have passed your attention that the Minor Hurling last year was a standalone competition with the final on in a packed Nowlan Park between Tipp and Offaly who in fairness to them are doing something about get ack to where they were in the 80' and 90's.
Bottom Line
As pointed out earlier
You will need over 9,000 players to win an All Ireland nowadays
Getting to those numbers requires huge work,rather than blaming everyone else
Not every county is capable of winning an AI hence the reason I'm all on for the various grades in intercounty hurling championship, it's the false platitudes and in some cases downright arrogance of some with their plans to improve hurling in areas they know nothing about the issues faced in those areas;
Make up of the 2020 Hurling committee
Tipp x2
Galway x2
Cork x1
KK x1
Antrim x1
Limerick x1
Clare x1
Waterford x1
With the best will in the world and I know some have coached outside their own county most notable Paul Flynn who was up in Down for a year, what would these lads and one lady know what the issues are facing Fermanagh or Tyrone hurlers, let alone in Meath, Kildare, Westmeath and the likes.
There needs to be more voices from these areas on these focus groups to give a more rounded approach to hurling and it's development.
Once Down get the lads in Donaghadee, Bangor, Newtownards, East Belfast and Dundonald hurling we'll give Tipp a run for their money. ;)
back to my point of You should be helping yourselves not waiting for anyone to help you, there was no Down Nominee for that committee
I see Down has a Catholic/Nationalist population of around 250,000 people
Bigger than Limerick Tipperary Wexford Clare Waterford
2 and a half times the size of Kilkenny
smaller than only Galway Cork and Dublin of the so called Stronger Counties
and Ye cant grow the game of Hurling !!!!
I'm on my club executive and at no point were we asking to put anyone forward.
The Ards peninsula has a nationalist population of less that 7K, with three senior clubs in that and 75% of the current senior team from there, there's bigger clubs in Tipp than that.
Limerick maybe even better this year ???
There are hurling clubs in galway that won't field m underage football teams after the age of 13 so lads can concentrate on hurling
That's the sort of stupidity you have to deal with in gaa circles
I wish they'd do a few takes of Cian Lynch's flicks and pick ups. They're unreal.
TG4's director always seem to cut the play short in the replays and we miss them.
He done 3 or 4 in that game tonight as if he was in his back garden.
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 25, 2023, 08:56:41 PM
Limerick maybe even better this year ???
I agree. Tipp threw all they had at them.
Quote from: burdizzo on March 25, 2023, 09:35:53 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on March 25, 2023, 08:56:41 PM
Limerick maybe even better this year ???
I agree. Tipp threw all they had at them.
And no Kyle Hayes. Flannagan only on for last 10 mins. No Dan Morrisery. GH in for 10 mins.
They've used the league to blood another few lads properly including Ó Dalaigh, Houlihan and Ryan etc.
does the hurling league suffer because format is too similar to the championship
Limerick just pull away in the second half. With Tipp it was 5 minutes in. With Galway last year it was 10 minutes from the end.
The result is the same.
The semi-final yesterday lacked any real intensity, very much "excuse me" type hurling, which IMO was down to Corks approach, they never really went at Kilkenny who were comfortable throughout, Collins in the Cork goals kept it respectable. Blanchfield in the halfback line, is growing on me, no messing with him..
Tipp put up a decent showing on Saturday evening considering where they were in the championship last year, the question is can they kick on again come championship as you know Limerick certainly will as they've another few gears yet to go through.
Ominous looking for everyone else come championship.
I was very impressed by Blanchfield when I saw him up close against Antrim.
Cork were very fired up for someone that didn't go at them tbh. They seem to be trying to do an equivalent of Limerick's short passing game and more often than not pass to a man who is surrounded. I thought they were quite naive.
In saying that too I thought Kilkenny hit too many 50-50 balls into the forwards. The game has evolved from that. They are very good at fighting for it etc but Limerick wouldn't be wasting the amount of balls they did. They still have Reid, Cody and Mullen to come back though I would expect that to improve a lot.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 27, 2023, 08:28:55 AM
The semi-final yesterday lacked any real intensity, very much "excuse me" type hurling, which IMO was down to Corks approach, they never really went at Kilkenny who were comfortable throughout, Collins in the Cork goals kept it respectable. Blanchfield in the halfback line, is growing on me, no messing with him..
Tipp put up a decent showing on Saturday evening considering where they were in the championship last year, the question is can they kick on again come championship as you know Limerick certainly will as they've another few gears yet to go through.
Ominous looking for everyone else come championship.
I thought Blanchfield was v good in the league last year a few times I saw KK, of course when the league is over Cody goes back to his old faithfuls & who could argue with him. John Donnelly another player that seems to be revelling since Cody has gone.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 27, 2023, 08:28:55 AM
The semi-final yesterday lacked any real intensity, very much "excuse me" type hurling, which IMO was down to Corks approach, they never really went at Kilkenny who were comfortable throughout, Collins in the Cork goals kept it respectable. Blanchfield in the halfback line, is growing on me, no messing with him..
Tipp put up a decent showing on Saturday evening considering where they were in the championship last year, the question is can they kick on again come championship as you know Limerick certainly will as they've another few gears yet to go through.
Ominous looking for everyone else come championship.
Cork were very disappointing. OTB have a Cork hurling analyst and she was singing their praises all League.
Quote from: seafoid on March 27, 2023, 08:05:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on March 27, 2023, 08:28:55 AM
The semi-final yesterday lacked any real intensity, very much "excuse me" type hurling, which IMO was down to Corks approach, they never really went at Kilkenny who were comfortable throughout, Collins in the Cork goals kept it respectable. Blanchfield in the halfback line, is growing on me, no messing with him..
Tipp put up a decent showing on Saturday evening considering where they were in the championship last year, the question is can they kick on again come championship as you know Limerick certainly will as they've another few gears yet to go through.
Ominous looking for everyone else come championship.
Cork were very disappointing. OTB have a Cork hurling analyst and she was singing their praises all League.
I think we're now seeing that because of the close proximity of the championship to the league teams are holding back somewhat, but we'll find out soon enough whose got a kick in them come championship.
In fairness to Cork they've tried a lot of young players as well, the soundings coming out of their camp was that they were going to give the Kilkenny game a real rattle but it was anything but.
Harnedy is proving to be every bit as crucial to them as Horgan and they need a physical type lad in Dalton to show up in the championship as he really hasn't done anything since U21 a few years back.
It was a good idea for Galway to take the League handy. Cats 7 points behind. Tipp got blown away. Cork ran out of gas. Not good for confidence.
This is a wee bit depressing. Limerick are just a mile above everyone else.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 09, 2023, 03:25:39 PM
This is a wee bit depressing. Limerick are just a mile above everyone else.
Limerick on a different level.
Theirs to lose again this year.
Getting stronger and stronger. KK will be disappointed with their low scoring total. Just swamped by Limerick.
The time to beat Limerick is in the championship endgame, not the start of April.
This time last year limerick was only starting to get going, this year they seem to have nearly peaked before championship has even started. Will they keep this up for the summer probably but it wouldn't be a complete shock if someone like Tipp ambushed them either.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 10, 2023, 10:03:08 AM
This time last year limerick was only starting to get going, this year they seem to have nearly peaked before championship has even started. Will they keep this up for the summer probably but it wouldn't be a complete shock if someone like Tipp ambushed them either.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/
"In hurling, more so than football, this time of year there is no similarity to what we see in May, June and July. It's all about trying to get your timing right and not to overdo it in these months, in this weather.
"The pace of the game in the Munster Senior League is probably 25% of championship, in my opinion. The league would be more like 50-75% depending on the stage of it.
"That extra 25% comes once championship starts and pitches are better, everything is faster. Can guys can adapt to that, not just physically but also mentally, in terms of decision-making, instinct and having the character to do it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXCh9OhDiCI
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 10, 2023, 10:03:08 AM
This time last year limerick was only starting to get going, this year they seem to have nearly peaked before championship has even started. Will they keep this up for the summer probably but it wouldn't be a complete shock if someone like Tipp ambushed them either.
The worrying thing is I am not sure they have peaked. I dunno what gear they were in yesterday but I am not convinced they were full throttle.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 10, 2023, 10:22:02 AM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 10, 2023, 10:03:08 AM
This time last year limerick was only starting to get going, this year they seem to have nearly peaked before championship has even started. Will they keep this up for the summer probably but it wouldn't be a complete shock if someone like Tipp ambushed them either.
The worrying thing is I am not sure they have peaked. I dunno what gear they were in yesterday but I am not convinced they were full throttle.
but neither did Kilkenny .
Quote from: seafoid on April 10, 2023, 09:40:29 AM
The time to beat Limerick is in the championship endgame, not the start of April.
So, that leaves an AI semi-final or final.
I get your logic but on the way there you've a load of hurdles to get over, a bit of luck with injuries, suspensions and the likes, Limerick however seemed to have even more strength in depth to cope with all that better than anyone else.
It would be hard to see the pick of the rest of the other counties in Munster beating them at this stage.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 09, 2023, 03:25:39 PM
This is a wee bit depressing. Limerick are just a mile above everyone else.
We'd the same when Kilkenny were in their pomp, there were AI finals the game was over after 20 minutes. Enjoy it for what it is, an exceptional team at their finest.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 12, 2023, 12:41:48 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 10, 2023, 09:40:29 AM
The time to beat Limerick is in the championship endgame, not the start of April.
So, that leaves an AI semi-final or final.
I get your logic but on the way there you've a load of hurdles to get over, a bit of luck with injuries, suspensions and the likes, Limerick however seemed to have even more strength in depth to cope with all that better than anyone else.
It would be hard to see the pick of the rest of the other counties in Munster beating them at this stage.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 09, 2023, 03:25:39 PM
This is a wee bit depressing. Limerick are just a mile above everyone else.
We'd the same when Kilkenny were in their pomp, there were AI finals the game was over after 20 minutes. Enjoy it for what it is, an exceptional team at their finest.
Fixed that for you, they are a total machine. Can vary their style so effectively in game as well as game to game.
Can mix it when required, can close it down when needed and when they open up I don't think there has been a more effective scoring team ever.
Quote from: marty34 on April 09, 2023, 04:51:55 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 09, 2023, 03:25:39 PM
This is a wee bit depressing. Limerick are just a mile above everyone else.
Limerick on a different level.
Theirs to lose again this year.
Getting stronger and stronger. KK will be disappointed with their low scoring total. Just swamped by Limerick.
Possibly, but no AI was won in April and this Limerick team have never peaked so soon in the season. All they beat on Sunday was a very mediocre Kilkenny team (under a new manager) who have been masquerading as an effective one for a few seasons now. If nothing else, Limerick's trip through Munster will become more fraught as opposing counties will start wearing timber off them I predict. They're bound to pick up a few injuries, suspensions, lads losing form etc. in their perambulations around the golden vale over the next 7 weeks.
I agree with the bit about K but I am not sure about Limerick peaking yet. I do think the KK team aren't fantastic - the FB was left hung out to dry on Flanagan and tbh so were the entire full back line but more cover should have been provided or changes should have been made. I dunno why that wasn't done.
Limerick will probably have bigger challenges but for me they are half a dozen points better than anyone out there unless something drastic changes.
Tommy Walsh
How to beat Limerick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQm6SPsxbx8&t=2880s
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2023, 07:05:11 PM
Tommy Walsh
How to beat Limerick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQm6SPsxbx8&t=2880s
Man mark that Limerick half forward line and half back lines you're going to have to have your own half backs right up into midfield which is going to leave an acre of space for Guillane, Casey and Seamy Flanagan to work in with no cover in front of you.
It's high risk and you'll need a fullback line with a lot of pace and physique to cope with that, but then again the theory is that the ball in won't be as good and higher in the air, giving the defenders a chance, but get it wrong and the net will be shaking.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 13, 2023, 03:16:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2023, 07:05:11 PM
Tommy Walsh
How to beat Limerick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQm6SPsxbx8&t=2880s
Man mark that Limerick half forward line and half back lines you're going to have to have your own half backs right up into midfield which is going to leave an acre of space for Guillane, Casey and Seamy Flanagan to work in with no cover in front of you.
It's high risk and you'll need a fullback line with a lot of pace and physique to cope with that, but then again the theory is that the ball in won't be as good and higher in the air, giving the defenders a chance, but get it wrong and the net will be shaking.
He says movement and speed...I wonder how that would get on
Quote from: johnnycool on April 13, 2023, 03:16:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2023, 07:05:11 PM
Tommy Walsh
How to beat Limerick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQm6SPsxbx8&t=2880s
Man mark that Limerick half forward line and half back lines you're going to have to have your own half backs right up into midfield which is going to leave an acre of space for Guillane, Casey and Seamy Flanagan to work in with no cover in front of you.
It's high risk and you'll need a fullback line with a lot of pace and physique to cope with that, but then again the theory is that the ball in won't be as good and higher in the air, giving the defenders a chance, but get it wrong and the net will be shaking.
Is the no cover thing not pretty much what KK tried? Sure look how that turned out.
Quote from: seafoid on April 13, 2023, 04:38:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 13, 2023, 03:16:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2023, 07:05:11 PM
Tommy Walsh
How to beat Limerick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQm6SPsxbx8&t=2880s
Man mark that Limerick half forward line and half back lines you're going to have to have your own half backs right up into midfield which is going to leave an acre of space for Guillane, Casey and Seamy Flanagan to work in with no cover in front of you.
It's high risk and you'll need a fullback line with a lot of pace and physique to cope with that, but then again the theory is that the ball in won't be as good and higher in the air, giving the defenders a chance, but get it wrong and the net will be shaking.
He says movement and speed...I wonder how that would get on
Limerick forwards aren't lacking in that regard either, que big Seamy Flanagan showing the KK fullback a clean pair of heels before passing off to a free Guillane to shake said net.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 13, 2023, 05:01:41 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 13, 2023, 03:16:45 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 12, 2023, 07:05:11 PM
Tommy Walsh
How to beat Limerick
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQm6SPsxbx8&t=2880s
Man mark that Limerick half forward line and half back lines you're going to have to have your own half backs right up into midfield which is going to leave an acre of space for Guillane, Casey and Seamy Flanagan to work in with no cover in front of you.
It's high risk and you'll need a fullback line with a lot of pace and physique to cope with that, but then again the theory is that the ball in won't be as good and higher in the air, giving the defenders a chance, but get it wrong and the net will be shaking.
Is the no cover thing not pretty much what KK tried? Sure look how that turned out.
See above.
Limerick hit 20 wides and still won pulling up by 11 points, Kilkenny had a few sights at goal, but were few and far between.
Serious outfit this Limerick lot.
might as well,Just hand them the Liam McCarthy now and be done with it
Anyone playing Limerick needs goals.
There is no point in trying to match Limerick for power or skill.
Cork did well against them in 2018 and 2019 by creating space and getting runners from deep .
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on April 14, 2023, 02:08:38 PM
might as well,Just hand them the Liam McCarthy now and be done with it
I wouldn't go that far, Clare might give them a bit of a game, but everyone else in Munster are also rans...
;)
Quote from: johnnycool on April 17, 2023, 02:17:46 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on April 14, 2023, 02:08:38 PM
might as well,Just hand them the Liam McCarthy now and be done with it
I wouldn't go that far, Clare might give them a bit of a game, but everyone else in Munster are also rans...
;)
Everyone in Ireland is also rans
What odds are they for 6 in a row ?
Still think Tipp the only team to ambush them by simply moving the ball faster and moving faster themselves but it will only happen if limerick are off colour. Limerick brings there A game for rest of year and it's a done deal.
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 17, 2023, 04:54:31 PM
Still think Tipp the only team to ambush them by simply moving the ball faster and moving faster themselves but it will only happen if limerick are off colour. Limerick brings there A game for rest of year and it's a done deal.
They have to ambush them outside Munster
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2023, 05:04:17 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 17, 2023, 04:54:31 PM
Still think Tipp the only team to ambush them by simply moving the ball faster and moving faster themselves but it will only happen if limerick are off colour. Limerick brings there A game for rest of year and it's a done deal.
They have to ambush them outside Munster
With Munster being so tight I don't think anyone can keep their powder dry for an "ambush" in an AI semi-final or final.
It'll need to be full tilt in Munster from the get go.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 18, 2023, 03:54:00 PM
Quote from: seafoid on April 17, 2023, 05:04:17 PM
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on April 17, 2023, 04:54:31 PM
Still think Tipp the only team to ambush them by simply moving the ball faster and moving faster themselves but it will only happen if limerick are off colour. Limerick brings there A game for rest of year and it's a done deal.
They have to ambush them outside Munster
With Munster being so tight I don't think anyone can keep their powder dry for an "ambush" in an AI semi-final or final.
It'll need to be full tilt in Munster from the get go.
On the other hand if everyone loses to Limerick the competition will be fierce outside those matches with them.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/04/20/gaa-working-group-to-look-at-use-of-handpass-in-hurling/
GAA working group to look at use of handpass in hurling
Issue has been a source of recurrent controversy within the game
Expand
Westmeath's Davy Glennon makes a handpass under pressure from Eoghan O'Donnell of Dublin. Photograph: Ashley Cahill/Inpho
Seán Moran
Thu Apr 20 2023 - 14:33
The GAA has moved to address growing concern about the use of the handpass in hurling with a working group appointed to review the matter and report with "conclusions and recommendations" by the end of the summer.
This group will have an open agenda, which includes everything from stricter enforcement, to tweaking the regulations, to fundamental rule change.
The Standing Committee on the Playing Rules (SCPR), Croke Park's influential think tank on trends and issues within the games, has confirmed that issue of the handpass has been on their agenda for a while and at last month's meeting, the decision was taken to impanel a small group to consider the issue, according to committee chair David Hassan.
"We are very much aware of this issue," he told The Irish Times and at our meeting in March a few weeks ago, we established a working group, which will have amongst its member Barry Kelly, an All-Ireland final referee, and Podge Collins, the Clare dual player, both of whom are members of the Playing Rules committee.
"They have been tasked as a small group with complementing their membership with one or two others to give this issue thorough examination and look at a range of options that could be brought forward to address this.
"I know that inevitably raises expectations about a rule change and the recommendations may be short of that – for instance a strengthening of the current wording or the trialling of some potential alternatives – but all options will be considered by the working group."
Learn more
In recent years, the issue of the handpass has been a source of recurrent controversy within hurling.
A valid pass is meant to feature two distinct movements, a 'release' and a 'striking action'. Instead intercounty matches frequently showcase transfers that are effectively 'throws', which are prohibited under rule in both football and hurling.
It was reported this week in the Irish Examiner that a letter has gone out to the counties, reminding intercounty teams of the imperative to observe the rule. Hassan says that although the need is to proceed with caution, the working group will have a blank canvas.
"I'd be satisfied that Barry Kelly, who refereed four All-Ireland finals, Podge Collins and others will give this a thorough examination and will come forward with conclusions and recommendations and those recommendations may well include the trialling of alternatives. We've shown in the past that we have no difficulty with trialling rules if that's a conclusion.
"Before that we should consider other options, like clarification of existing wording. I'd be satisfied the working group will come forward with proposals that reflect the broad range of opinions."
A major advocacy role has been taken by former Tipperary All-Ireland winner, Conor O'Donovan, who has widely circulated a video of his alternative rules for the handpass, which involve using the non ball-holding hand to play away the sliotar.
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In an interview with The Irish Times 18 months ago he explained why he believed intensified enforcement would not work.
"Referees can't be sure whether there's a striking action or not and they let a lot go but if they started to penalise it there'd be uproar. Get rid of the ambiguity.
"It would eliminate the rucks. Players wouldn't be stopping to roll-lift the ball because if they get surrounded they can just offload it. Similarly players running into tackles, who are looking for frees don't mind if they don't get them because they can toss the ball to a runner off their shoulder.
"If that isn't available they'll think twice about running into tackles. Players who aren't throwing the ball in today's game are putting themselves at a competitive disadvantage."
Last year, O'Donovan's club Nenagh Éire Óg brought a motion for rule change to the Tipperary convention where it narrowly failed to secure sufficient support.
Strong Clare team announced...
Will they hit the heights of last year or will a resurgent Tipp have enough firepower to down the banner?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FuOw5vbWIAIv5hj?format=jpg&name=small)
I'm going with Tipp on this one, I think they'll get more goals than Clare but there will be goals at both ends, forwards on top unless John Conlon can shore up that defence.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 21, 2023, 11:21:34 AM
Strong Clare team announced...
Will they hit the heights of last year or will a resurgent Tipp have enough firepower to down the banner?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FuOw5vbWIAIv5hj?format=jpg&name=small)
I'm going with Tipp on this one, I think they'll get more goals than Clare but there will be goals at both ends, forwards on top unless John Conlon can shore up that defence.
I think Clare will shade it
Ronan Maher at 12 and Jason Forde at 7??
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/04/22/hurling-2023-county-by-county-guide/
Hurling Championship 2023: county-by-county guide
Championship 2023 preview: The 11 counties on the start line to play for the Liam MacCarthy Cup
Limerick's Declan Hannon and Cian Lynch lift the Liam MacCarthy Cup in 2022.
Seán Moran
Fri Apr 21 2023 - 12:00
Leinster
Antrim
Antrim's Neil McManus.
Manager: Darren Gleeson (4th year)
Odds: All-Ireland 1000/1 and Leinster 200/1
First up: v Dublin, Corrigan Park, 22nd April, 2.0
Gradually putting some daylight between themselves and the other middle ranking counties having secured a fourth season in Division One. Neil McManus still a formidable leader and Nigel Elliot a welcome return after three years in Australia. Tipp match aside, their home form is respectable. Key match this weekend.
Dublin's Eoghan O'Donnell.
Manager: Micheál Donoghue (1st year)
Odds: All-Ireland 80/1; Leinster 14/1
Learn more
First up: v Antrim, Corrigan Park, 22nd April, 2.0
Priority in the league was talent identification and results were correspondingly underwhelming. Attack disrupted through the various injuries to Alex Considine, Cian O'Sullivan and Ronan Hayes. Dónal Burke still carrying the scoreboard burden and Eoghan O'Donnell a big presence at the back. Sights on the top three.
Galway
Galway manager Henry Shefflin.
Manager: Henry Shefflin (2nd year)
Odds: All-Ireland 7/1; Leinster evens
First up: v Wexford, Pearse Stadium, 22nd April, 4.30
Galway's exemplary inconsistency must be baffling Henry Shefflin. Last year's poor display against Kilkenny prefigured an epic tilt at Limerick. Questionable engagement with league hasn't really clarified things apart from the bad news of David Burke's injury. Still have highest ceiling outside champions – but rarely reach that height.
Kilkenny
Kilkenny's TJ Reid.
Manager: Derek Lyng (1st year)
Odds: All-Ireland 8/1; Leinster 6/5
First up: v Westmeath, UPMC Nowlan Park, 22nd April, 6.0
Kilkenny struggled at times with Derek Lyng's tactical realignment but still reached league final where Limerick taught a hard lesson. Some year, TJ Reid will stop being a hurler of the year nominee. Not what they were, especially in terms of a big half-back platform, but well capable of retaining Leinster and making hard yards for anyone.
Westmeath
Westmeath's Killian Doyle.
Manager: Joe Fortune (2nd year)
Odds: All-Ireland 1000/1; Leinster 500/1
First up: v Kilkenny, UPMC Nowlan Park, 22nd April, 6.0
Secured a fourth season in five in Division One and showed signs of improvement in a tough league. All Star nominee Killian Doyle's accuracy from the placed ball makes his injury-enforced absence a major setback for an attack that has been short on goals. Took a point off Wexford last year but a hard road beckons.
Wexford
Wexford's Simon Donohoe.
Manager: Darragh Egan (2nd year)
Odds: All-Ireland 50/1 and Leinster 9/1
First up: v Galway, Pearse Stadium, 22nd April, 4.30
A poor league in contrast to last year and beset by injuries to key players, not all of which have cleared up. Attempts to uncover new talent weren't conspicuously successful and recent form in challenge matches not brilliant. Need everyone back on board. Opening with a key match and up against it.
Munster
Clare
Clare's Tony Kelly.
Manager: Brian Lohan (4th year)
Odds: All-Ireland 16/1; Munster 9/1
First Up: v Tipperary, Cusack Park, 23rd April, 4.0
Have managed to slip under the radar a bit despite being unbeaten in last year's Munster round robin and topping the table. Provincial competitiveness against Limerick overshadowed by All-Ireland semi-final disaster. Aidan McCarthy back and Shane O'Donnell ready to go. Can Tony Kelly keep shooting the lights out?
Cork
Cork's Patrick Horgan.
Manager: Pat Ryan (1st year)
Odds: All-Ireland 10/1; Munster 15/2
First Up: v Waterford, Páirc Uí Chaoimh, 30th April, 4.0
Spread net wide in encouraging league until defeat by Kilkenny in the semi-final. Darragh Fitzgibbon and Patrick Horgan due back for championship but haven't played this year. One of successes to date, Eoin Downey at full back, is suspended for first match and other injuries weaken the defence.
Limerick
Limerick's Shane O'Brien.
Manager: John Kiely (7th year)
Odds: All-Ireland 8/15; Munster 3/10
First Up: v Waterford, FBD Semple Stadium, 23rd April, 2.0
A local estimate last year was that they could drop 15 per cent and still win the All-Ireland, which they did despite loss of Cian Lynch and Peter Casey. Both now restored to fitness and some new talent added, like Shane O'Brien, although involved with under-20s. Also look in better physical shape. Odds tell their own story.
Tipperary
Tipperary's Bryan O'Mara. Photograph: Inpho/Ken Sutton
Manager: Liam Cahill (1st year)
Odds: All-Ireland 16/1; Munster 9/1
First Up: v Clare, Cusack Park, 23rd April, 4.0
Although ship has been steadied, injuries have taken a toll with Paddy Cadell out for season. Veterans Cathal Barrett and Séamus Callanan due back, albeit without much game time, but Bryan O'Mara's return a definite plus on last year. Unbeaten going into semi-final where they lost honourably to Limerick and top scorers in Division One. Will compete.
Waterford
Waterford's Dessie Hutchinson. Photograph: Inpho
Manager: David Fitzgerald (1st year)
Odds: All-Ireland 25/1; Munster 16/1
First Up: v Limerick, FBD Semple Stadium, 23rd April, 2.0
Wracked by injuries during the league, Waterford have recovered most of the absentees although Shane McNulty and Iarlaith Daly miss out this weekend. Tactical trials with arch-shooter Dessie Hutchinson playing deep have been puzzling but surely experimental. Hardest match first and will target rattling Cork next week to challenge for qualification. Outliers.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/04/22/champions-limerick-hold-all-the-keys-to-hurlings-kingdom/
Kilkenny will recover from the league final, but the question is how good are they on their best day? They couldn't have reached the All-Ireland final last year without TJ Reid's towering leadership, but he's coming back for his 15th season: how many times can they rub the lamp and expect the same genie to emerge?
Eoin Cody seems to have stalled, Huw Lalor appears to be less effective at centre back, and young Billy Drennan learned more on the last day of the league, harshly, than he had in the previous two months. They won't be Limerick's nearest pursuers.
And Galway? Nothing we saw during the league was designed to answer that question. It was clear from Henry Shefflin's comments after the Limerick game in February that they had no desire to reach the league play-offs. They are probably the second-biggest team in the championship and they are not short of firepower, but all of that only gets you to the start line. In his second season, Shefflin will need to come up with something different.
The last time Limerick were in distress was in the first half of the 2021 Munster final, when Tipperary led them by 10 points. Eamon O'Shea, one of the greatest minds in the modern game, had come back with Liam Sheedy for one last tilt. A few months later he reflected on what they had tried to do.
"I wouldn't be interested in playing them at their own game," he said. "We had to find those pockets of space where you could do your hurling, but it's very difficult because they are really structured, and structured really well. So, it takes more keys to unlock them. The team that finds a way to unlock them is going to need multiple keys. It's their game now, if you like – they have the ball."
Munster Spending by County 2014-22
Which County spent over €13m ? 💳
Over €2.3m was spent by which County in 2022 ? 💶
💰 The Total spending in 2014 was €5.8m,What did the 6 Counties spend in 2022💰
Click Link to read the Article
https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/munster-gaa-team-spending (https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/munster-gaa-team-spending)
#gaa #hurling #football #gaelicfootball #claregaa #kerrygaa #limerickgaa #corkgaa #waterfordgaa
Fair play to Antrim for drawing with Dublin. Easy win for Galway versus Wexford.
Short puck out killing Clare
Quote from: dec on April 23, 2023, 04:24:15 PM
Short puck out killing Clare
Another one there now.. crazy
Clare gave up soft goals today that gave the game to Tip in the end. I was hopeful that having given up on Quilligan in goals that they wouldn't be gifting goals to the opposition but it was the same old story.
Clare scored enough at the other end but were too leaky at the back.
I only watched the highlights back. It was ridiculous the goals they gave away. Jake Morris is some goal poacher though.
Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2023, 11:41:05 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 21, 2023, 11:21:34 AM
Strong Clare team announced...
Will they hit the heights of last year or will a resurgent Tipp have enough firepower to down the banner?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FuOw5vbWIAIv5hj?format=jpg&name=small)
I'm going with Tipp on this one, I think they'll get more goals than Clare but there will be goals at both ends, forwards on top unless John Conlon can shore up that defence.
I think Clare will shade it
Tipp are one of the few teams who actively go hell bent for goals and whilst ably assisted by some poor puck outs (one wasn't the keepers fault) they need them to get enough scores to win out as their defence is pretty porous as well, especially with Cathal Barrett traipsing out the field after Tony Kelly.
Clare will be up against it going to the Gaelic Grounds, but with Limerick being pushed all the way by Waterford who hit some terrible wides in the last 10 minutes they'll need to get something from that as it'll be hard to get a 3rd spot with 2 defeats from 2.
Waterford had a bit of a kick in them, DeBurca is a big loss, but they do have real cover in defence. They went toe to toe in the physicality stakes with Limerick and weren't that far away in the end. Limerick had a bit of dirty diesel in the tank and will know they must do better for Clare's visit.
Waterford now go to Cork and like Clare, 2 losses from 2 is something they don't want, but I think they'll win in Cork if Davy keeps the attacking mindset and maybe push up on a weak enough Cork defence who Waterford have had the better off in recent years.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 24, 2023, 11:30:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2023, 11:41:05 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 21, 2023, 11:21:34 AM
Strong Clare team announced...
Will they hit the heights of last year or will a resurgent Tipp have enough firepower to down the banner?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FuOw5vbWIAIv5hj?format=jpg&name=small)
I'm going with Tipp on this one, I think they'll get more goals than Clare but there will be goals at both ends, forwards on top unless John Conlon can shore up that defence.
I think Clare will shade it
Tipp are one of the few teams who actively go hell bent for goals and whilst ably assisted by some poor puck outs (one wasn't the keepers fault) they need them to get enough scores to win out as their defence is pretty porous as well, especially with Cathal Barrett traipsing out the field after Tony Kelly.
Clare will be up against it going to the Gaelic Grounds, but with Limerick being pushed all the way by Waterford who hit some terrible wides in the last 10 minutes they'll need to get something from that as it'll be hard to get a 3rd spot with 2 defeats from 2.
Waterford had a bit of a kick in them, DeBurca is a big loss, but they do have real cover in defence. They went toe to toe in the physicality stakes with Limerick and weren't that far away in the end. Limerick had a bit of dirty diesel in the tank and will know they must do better for Clare's visit.
Waterford now go to Cork and like Clare, 2 losses from 2 is something they don't want, but I think they'll win in Cork if Davy keeps the attacking mindset and maybe push up on a weak enough Cork defence who Waterford have had the better off in recent years.
Kelly spent most of his time at full forward and is clearly not 100%
He is a fine hurler but he doesn't like the close attention of a man marking back like what Cathal Barrett is,give Kelly space to run onto a ball and he will run riot.
Foudy is coming in for a lot of criticism for the goals
the first one, Conor Cleary should have concentrated more on the ball and less on John McGrath when it was in flight and he would have stopped it.
the second one saw John Conlon fail to receive a straight forward puck out in space in the right wing back back position
the third one was a comedy of errors in the Clare Goalmouth
4 was a penalty
5 was Seanie Ryan on in his debut after 20 seconds burying it
Waterford will be kicking themselves, the usual story of rushed wides with them
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on April 24, 2023, 12:38:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 24, 2023, 11:30:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2023, 11:41:05 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 21, 2023, 11:21:34 AM
Strong Clare team announced...
Will they hit the heights of last year or will a resurgent Tipp have enough firepower to down the banner?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FuOw5vbWIAIv5hj?format=jpg&name=small)
I'm going with Tipp on this one, I think they'll get more goals than Clare but there will be goals at both ends, forwards on top unless John Conlon can shore up that defence.
I think Clare will shade it
Tipp are one of the few teams who actively go hell bent for goals and whilst ably assisted by some poor puck outs (one wasn't the keepers fault) they need them to get enough scores to win out as their defence is pretty porous as well, especially with Cathal Barrett traipsing out the field after Tony Kelly.
Clare will be up against it going to the Gaelic Grounds, but with Limerick being pushed all the way by Waterford who hit some terrible wides in the last 10 minutes they'll need to get something from that as it'll be hard to get a 3rd spot with 2 defeats from 2.
Waterford had a bit of a kick in them, DeBurca is a big loss, but they do have real cover in defence. They went toe to toe in the physicality stakes with Limerick and weren't that far away in the end. Limerick had a bit of dirty diesel in the tank and will know they must do better for Clare's visit.
Waterford now go to Cork and like Clare, 2 losses from 2 is something they don't want, but I think they'll win in Cork if Davy keeps the attacking mindset and maybe push up on a weak enough Cork defence who Waterford have had the better off in recent years.
Kelly spent most of his time at full forward and is clearly not 100%
He is a fine hurler but he doesn't like the close attention of a man marking back like what Cathal Barrett is,give Kelly space to run onto a ball and he will run riot.
Foudy is coming in for a lot of criticism for the goals
the first one, Conor Cleary should have concentrated more on the ball and less on John McGrath when it was in flight and he would have stopped it.
the second one saw John Conlon fail to receive a straight forward puck out in space in the right wing back back position
the third one was a comedy of errors in the Clare Goalmouth
4 was a penalty
5 was Seanie Ryan on in his debut after 20 seconds burying it
Waterford will be kicking themselves, the usual story of rushed wides with them
Whilst you have a good point to make on that, a keeper in that position has to assume no one is going to touch the ball and get his angles right, it went straight in from 60 odd metres from a lineball... If Cleary catches or blocks it then all good, if McGrath gets a flick then it's in the lap of the gods, but to allow it to drop in with no one touching it is poor keeping IMO. There's been plenty of questions on Cleary also the last few years but it looks like they've no one else for No3.
The second was Conlons fault all day long, puck out was straight into his hand, should be bread and butter at this level, 4 and 5 the keeper had no chance.
Verney on a blueprint to beat Limerick https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig9x9uXOTYQ&4350s
Interesting hurling discussion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxlv-K1CNyQ&t=3600s
Quote from: johnnycool on April 24, 2023, 12:59:05 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on April 24, 2023, 12:38:00 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 24, 2023, 11:30:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on April 21, 2023, 11:41:05 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on April 21, 2023, 11:21:34 AM
Strong Clare team announced...
Will they hit the heights of last year or will a resurgent Tipp have enough firepower to down the banner?
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FuOw5vbWIAIv5hj?format=jpg&name=small)
I'm going with Tipp on this one, I think they'll get more goals than Clare but there will be goals at both ends, forwards on top unless John Conlon can shore up that defence.
I think Clare will shade it
Tipp are one of the few teams who actively go hell bent for goals and whilst ably assisted by some poor puck outs (one wasn't the keepers fault) they need them to get enough scores to win out as their defence is pretty porous as well, especially with Cathal Barrett traipsing out the field after Tony Kelly.
Clare will be up against it going to the Gaelic Grounds, but with Limerick being pushed all the way by Waterford who hit some terrible wides in the last 10 minutes they'll need to get something from that as it'll be hard to get a 3rd spot with 2 defeats from 2.
Waterford had a bit of a kick in them, DeBurca is a big loss, but they do have real cover in defence. They went toe to toe in the physicality stakes with Limerick and weren't that far away in the end. Limerick had a bit of dirty diesel in the tank and will know they must do better for Clare's visit.
Waterford now go to Cork and like Clare, 2 losses from 2 is something they don't want, but I think they'll win in Cork if Davy keeps the attacking mindset and maybe push up on a weak enough Cork defence who Waterford have had the better off in recent years.
Kelly spent most of his time at full forward and is clearly not 100%
He is a fine hurler but he doesn't like the close attention of a man marking back like what Cathal Barrett is,give Kelly space to run onto a ball and he will run riot.
Foudy is coming in for a lot of criticism for the goals
the first one, Conor Cleary should have concentrated more on the ball and less on John McGrath when it was in flight and he would have stopped it.
the second one saw John Conlon fail to receive a straight forward puck out in space in the right wing back back position
the third one was a comedy of errors in the Clare Goalmouth
4 was a penalty
5 was Seanie Ryan on in his debut after 20 seconds burying it
Waterford will be kicking themselves, the usual story of rushed wides with them
Whilst you have a good point to make on that, a keeper in that position has to assume no one is going to touch the ball and get his angles right, it went straight in from 60 odd metres from a lineball... If Cleary catches or blocks it then all good, if McGrath gets a flick then it's in the lap of the gods, but to allow it to drop in with no one touching it is poor keeping IMO. There's been plenty of questions on Cleary also the last few years but it looks like they've no one else for No3.
The second was Conlons fault all day long, puck out was straight into his hand, should be bread and butter at this level, 4 and 5 the keeper had no chance.
Definitely
Always follow the original flight of the ball
It's not far from the top in terms of standing orders for goalkeepers
IIRC did Jack Grealish (the Galway one) not score a goal last year with a long high ball in and it deceived the keeper.
Happens more often than you'd think.
Maybe more difficult is there's a few lads in front of you where if nobody is near the keeper then it should be dealt with handy enough.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/04/26/sean-moran-time-for-the-gaa-to-get-their-heads-around-dangers-of-concussion/
Football and hurling are not collision sports in the same sense as rugby but they increasingly involve ferocious contacts. Players are bigger and stronger. In the words of one intercounty referee from a couple of years ago, "if you're 6ft 2in and spending six months in the gym, you want to put it to some use".
Concussion has become an issue for the GAA as well.
One view in hurling is that the requirement to wear a protective headguard or helmet inspires a complacency in players that their opponents are fully protected, thus fraying the constraints on careless and reckless use of the hurl.
Another is that the shorter and lighter nature of the hurl has made it more like an extension of the arm, according to one official.
"A lot of the problem now is that the length of the hurl is short. It means that it's much lighter. That also means that it's being swung around the head in an attempt to go for the ball whereas before, if the ball was there to be played more often than not, you'd put you hand in.
"Now you flick with the hurl and you can catch the head, the elbow rather than try to grab the ball. It's like the hurl is an extension of the hand. That's the way it's gone."
Neither is headgear a complete protection. It helps to prevent laceration and such injuries but in the words of another informed official, the helmet is "irrelevant" when it comes to concussion or brain injury.
Ger Ryan was chair of the GAA's Medical Scientific and Welfare Committee (MSWC) when increased penalties were introduced for interfering or tampering with an opponent's helmet – elevated to a red card.
"That was one of the reasons that the 'interference' with the helmet rule was brought in. If you're running and I grab your helmet, it may not impede you but it may impact on your brain, which is now travelling at a different rate to the head, which is a layman's explanation of contrecoup brain injury."
Last year, it was emphasised to GAA referees: "Players are responsible for the contact that they make. It doesn't matter whether it was accidental. If he is responsible for the contact that he makes, then he has to take the repercussions of that contact."
The GAA has its own concussion management protocols in place for 10 years but there is still uncertainty about what role a referee can play. In rugby it's not uncommon for a player to be required to leave the field for head injury assessment.
That intervention is rare in Gaelic games despite the provision for it having been included in the rules governing other temporary replacements in a motion accepted by congress in 2021.
Before that congress Dick Clerkin, then chair of the MSWC, explained the need for the new regulation.
"Experience is telling us both anecdotally from speaking with players and from qualitative and quantitative studies that there are cases when there are head injuries and players aren't being removed for assessment."
Aside from that, there is an onus on players to curb reckless behaviour. Judging by Sunday in Thurles, there needs to be intensified enforcement when it comes to head injuries inflicted on the field of play.
The least players can expect is that opponents won't set out deliberately to hit their heads but there has to be a higher standard of care than that.
RTE hurling podcast
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pGetUoyBwY
Clare overcame limerick in the gaelic grounds tonight by 1 point. Did anybody see it, it wasn't on rte.
It was on GAAGO. Fantastic game. Clare with the win. Limerick scored a goal with about a minute to go and made it very tight. Real championship intensity to it with very little space or time given.
Amazing result and sets up the Munster championship. Anything is possible within that group
What does it say about Limerick especially after last week?
Finn and lynch went off injured and hegarty only played a half. They'll be fine. Seem to have injuries round full back too.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 29, 2023, 10:00:48 PM
Finn and lynch went off injured and hegarty only played a half. They'll be fine. Seem to have injuries round full back too.
Fantastic game. Glad to see Clare win it in the end.
Got as close as anybody to Limerick recently, twice last year so they used that hurt tonight. Lohan's team, like Cody's, never give up. Enbodiment of their manager. After a loss last week to Tipperary, they needed the win, so in a way it was knock-out for Clare.
Went at it man for man and brought the hard work.
Limerick not firing on all cylinders...yet but will be hard to shift. They have a decent break now to recover.
5 teams fighting for 3 places means it's hell for leather in every game. If you lose the first, the second game is crucial - need the win.
Fantastic game - just flew by.
First loss for Limerick since 2019.
Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2023, 10:40:46 PM
First loss for Limerick since 2019.
First time Clare have beaten Limerick in their home ground in a championship game since 1901.
Quote from: seafoid on April 29, 2023, 09:28:30 PM
What does it say about Limerick especially after last week?
That if your a percentage off in this Munster championship you will be beaten,if Waterford hadn't hit 16 wides last Sunday in Thurles they would have beaten them too
Limerick will still come out of Munster
It's going to turn into some dogfight should Waterford beat Cork this afternoon
I'm not sure the change of GK for Clare has improved things, Flanagans late goal looked very soft
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 30, 2023, 10:39:30 AM
I'm not sure the change of GK for Clare has improved things, Flanagans late goal looked very soft
These things happen. Quaid let a soft one on too. All keepers make mistakes but more pronounced than any other player.
Just the 10 steps there for TJ before getting a foul
And about 9 for that goal ffs !!
Concannon is playing well
Strong finish by Galway
The Déise were Atrocious. 2 losses out of 2.
Quote from: seafoid on April 30, 2023, 05:45:42 PM
The Déise were Atrocious. 2 losses out of 2.
They've lost something like 12 games out of 14 in round robin.
It's a brutal stat.
They were very poor today. Very dead and tired looking. Strange with a defeat behind them last week. Contrast to Clare.
I think a problem with round robin is if you're out two weeks in a row and really fired up for the first one hard to follow that up.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2023, 06:42:55 PM
I think a problem with round robin is if you're out two weeks in a row and really fired up for the first one hard to follow that up.
Tell that to Clare.
Fair point. Maybe it's just Limerick games... They have it tricky enough to qualify too.
Waterford in big diffs. Cork tipp , Clare Waterford etc still to go. Some great games.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 30, 2023, 06:55:08 PM
Fair point. Maybe it's just Limerick games... They have it tricky enough to qualify too.
Waterford in big diffs. Cork tipp , Clare Waterford etc still to go. Some great games.
Just seems to be Waterford in the round robin.
Today, with a defeat behind them, seemed very passive and second to every ball.
Hard to know what the issue is.
Waterford's Munster round-robin hurling struggles continue. That makes it 12 defeats out of 14 games since this format started in 2018. Seven of those losses by margin of nine points or greater.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/01/nicky-english-clare-raise-the-stakes-as-questions-about-the-champions-intensify/
I also worry about Limerick's energy and where their scores are coming from. Gearóid Hegarty isn't starting and Cathal O'Neill is a different type of player and not as prolific. Cian Lynch struggled for scores and Kyle Hayes's attacking threat has looked subdued this year. Only Séamus Flanagan has been scoring goals.
Haven't gotten to see the Clare/Limerick game as yet, but will try to have a peak, the highlights don't do a game justice on TSG..
As for KK/Galway, a strange sort of a game, ebbed and flowed from one team to another, Galway forwards looked good in patches, then Kilkenny closed the gap only to open up a bit of a lead themselves, Galway pulled level with the last puck of the game. Maybe there's an inevitability that they both knew the winning or losing of that game will count for nothing if they keep rolling over the rest of the Leinster pack, I don't know but it's hard not to see them both meeting again in the Leinster final and even then it isn't truly knockout stuff.
Waterford, I just can't understand. Some very talented hurlers in that group, but whether it's tactics or mentality they just haven't been able to get to the pitch of the game on Sunday. They let Cork play the game Cork wanted to running at pace from deep with not a physical glove laid on a Cork lad. There has to be a level of aggression in any team and it was sorely lacking on Sunday.
Cork will be pleased with the win, but they won't enjoy the same "excuse me" hurling from any other team left in it though and then we'll know if they're the real deal or not.
You'd have to imagine Waterford are stuffed now. Tipp and Clare to go who both need the wins.
Galway KK was like they said in analysis. A championship game broke out with about 10 minutes to go. I am not convinced there's enough fight in Galway tbh. KK fight for everything like their lives depend on it and will beat much better teams than themselves on the back of it.
There was no jeopardy in the Kilkenny Galway match. Clare couldn't lose against Limerick. Of course it was more intensive.
The 2 provinces are imbalanced. There are 4/5 decent teams in Munster and currently only 2 in Leinster.
Leinster has Antrim, Westmeath and Dublin who would all be at a lower level than Waterford.
Ger Gilroy on OTB suggested knockout provincials followed by round robins of the top 8/10 to find the top 4/6.
(https://www.irishexaminer.com/cms_media/module_img/7098/3549034_10_articlelarge_2498468.jpg)
WORTHY CAUSE: At the launch of The Dillon Quirke Foundation fundraising in association with The Circet All-Ireland GAA Golf Challenge at the Clonoulty-Rossmore GAA Club in Tipperary are inter-county hurling managers, from left, Henry Shefflin of Galway, John Kiely of Limerick, Darren Gleeson of Antrim, Darragh Egan of Wexford, Pat Ryan of Cork, Davy Fitzgerald of Waterford, Stephen Molumphy of Kerry and Liam Cahill of Tipperary. The Foundation are calling on all GAA clubs to provide €100 towards providing cardiac screening across the association. To donate, visit bit.ly/doitfordillon.
Quote from: seafoid on May 03, 2023, 07:07:03 PM
The 2 provinces are imbalanced. There are 4/5 decent teams in Munster and currently only 2 in Leinster.
Leinster has Antrim, Westmeath and Dublin who would all be at a lower level than Waterford.
Ger Gilroy on OTB suggested knockout provincials followed by round robins of the top 8/10 to find the top 4/6.
If Wexford smarten up a bit, there's no guarantee Kilkenny will reach the Leinster final. If Wexford beat Dublin this weekend, their home game with Kilkenny is winner-take-all. For all the criticism of Galway, Kilkenny are in no way convincing either. Lot of hold-and-cold hurlers in their squad and TJ Reid is not near fit as yet.
There has been a Covid-like outbreak of wideitis in Galway this past Spring, affecting both Seniors and U20s. If the Seniors brush up on this, and their use of possession, (I counted at least 5 KK scores last Sunday that came from situations where Galway had the ball), they'll improve a good bit. The team balance still isn't perfect; Whelan is obviously carrying an injury and Conor Cooney's shocking inconsistency shows no sign of abating. Fintan Burke's return should allow Joe Cooney to return to the HF line, giving that area a badly needed boost. Having been a Minor winner in 2015, it's just now that Evan Niland is finally nailing down a spot on the team. (Marty Morrissey told us that 22-year old Jack Grealish was also on that team!).
The teams in Leinster can take it handy so they aren't in prime condition yet. Munster teams have no choice.
The Lads this week discuss
Is the Hurling Championship actually fit for purpose?
The Dog eat Dog Munster Championship versus the much easier route into the top 3 in Leinster.
click to listen in
Listen in via the Website
thepremierviewpodcast.com/epsode/ep-103-champions-vs-europa-league (http://thepremierviewpodcast.com/epsode/ep-103-champions-vs-europa-league)
Spotify
open.spotify.com/episode/6787xS6Tl4RYBDHo6svYD6 (ftp://open.spotify.com/episode/6787xS6Tl4RYBDHo6svYD6)
Sean Finn out for the Year
A massive loss even to the likes of Limerick
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 04, 2023, 07:28:44 PM
Sean Finn out for the Year
A massive loss even to the likes of Limerick
Big blow alright. Huge loss but Casey will slot in there now.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/05/joe-canning-how-well-you-recover-is-the-key-for-everybody-in-this-championship/
Joe Canning: Galway may have been better off losing to Kilkenny
How well you recover for the next day is the key for everybody in this championship
Joe Canning
Fri May 5 2023 - 06:00
One of the beauties of the round-robin system in the hurling championship is that the story keeps changing. In the old championship format, teams could spend weeks thinking about a big win or a big loss before they had to play again. In this system, every result and every performance has a knock-on effect that teams must deal with quickly or risk getting stuck.
Take last weekend. Waterford played like a team that hadn't been able to move on from their game against Limerick a week earlier. To me, it was a mental issue rather than a physical one. They had probably targeted the Limerick game for so long, and they had put so much energy into that performance, that they struggled to get beyond it.
Even though they lost against Limerick they would have been listening to compliments all week about how well they had played, and no matter how hard a player tries to block out the noise, that kind of stuff still seeps in. Waterford blew a chance to beat Limerick, and really gave themselves no chance of beating Cork by the way they played in the first half. Now their season is hanging by a thread.
How well you recover is the key for everybody. Clare only had a six-day turnaround after their loss to Tipperary, but the things that they needed to fix were obvious and they didn't have to look hard to find positives. The 3-23 they scored against Tipp would have been enough to win every other game played in the championship so far. They managed to get themselves into the right frame of mind for the Gaelic Grounds last Saturday night and everything else flows from that.
I said before the championship started that the biggest challenge for Limerick would be getting up for every game. All they were hearing was that they were going to walk the All-Ireland. On the flip side of that, every team they played was going to treat that game like it was an All-Ireland final. It is no coincidence that the best performances Clare and Waterford have produced this year, by a mile, have been against Limerick.
They need the three-week break that they have now. I still believe Limerick have the best team and the best panel, but it's a long time since they produced two mediocre performances in the championship, back-to-back. I wouldn't say their performance against Clare was flat, but it didn't have the kind of edge that they normally bring. Without that, they're not the same team. They're around long enough not to panic.
Learn more
For Kilkenny and Galway there are no urgent consequences from their match in Nowlan Park, but everything has a context. The Leinster Championship is weaker now than it has been for years and everybody expects Kilkenny and Galway to meet in the Leinster final again. You won't hear Kilkenny and Galway saying that but you can be sure it was somewhere in their minds.
The next time they meet will be in different circumstances but there will be stuff carried over from the game last week. Even though it was a draw, Kilkenny will feel like they lost the game. Not being able to manage a five-point lead late in the game, at home, against one of their biggest rivals, will sting. They'll bring that grievance into a Leinster final.
This might sound funny, but you'd wonder if it would have been better for Galway to lose by a point, and carry that disappointment into a potential Leinster final down the road. Every team is looking for psychological edge, and in the round-robin system you can sometimes get that from a defeat. If Limerick go on to win the All-Ireland they'll probably think that losing to Clare last weekend was the best thing that could have happened to them. That's not how they're feeling at the moment, but teams look for energy wherever they can find it.
Until the last quarter, there was a lot of shadowboxing in Nowlan Park. Good scores, nice hurling, but not the kind of intensity you would expect. Neither team wanted to lose, but unlike some of the games that are coming up in Munster, nobody's life was on the line.
Galway's Jack Grealish and Eoin Cody of Kilkenny during last weekend's Leinster round-robin clash. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
Some of the changes that Galway made when they were chasing the game were interesting though. Conor Cooney and Conor Whelan would be seen as the leaders of the Galway attack, but both of them were taken off. In Conor Whelan's case it was probably the first time he was ever taken off in a championship match when the game was still in the melting pot.
The way the game went, though, he couldn't argue. It seemed that every time the ball went into him he was wrestling with Huw Lawlor and the Kilkenny full back was one of their better players on the day. It was a brave call by Henry Shefflin and his selectors to send on a couple of inexperienced young lads late in the game, but Liam Collins and Declan McLoughlin both came up with a score and justified their presence.
For Conor Whelan and Conor Cooney I'm sure being taken off in a game like that will make them think a little bit. I remember when we drew against Dublin in the 2015 championship I was taken off in injury time when the game was still on the line. Anthony Cunningham was the Galway manager at the time and on the following Tuesday night he took me and Joseph Cooney into the referee's room before training in Athenry and laid it on the line for us.
I spent the rest of that week thinking I was going to be dropped for the replay. As it happened I started full forward, we won easily and I managed to get a few scores. Galway will need Conor Whelan and Conor Cooney to be at their best as the year goes on. Nothing was lost last Sunday; we won't know for a while how much was really gained.
Cork and Tipperary in Páirc Uí Chaoimh is the outstanding game of this weekend. Even though they both have a win under their belts, it's not a game either of them can afford to lose. Cork were good in lots of ways last Sunday, but I wasn't impressed with their defence. They coughed up three or four clear goal chances after half-time, and if they do that against a goal-hungry team like Tipp, they won't get away with it.
I don't think Cork came out of the league knowing who their best six backs were and I still think they have problems in their full-back line. Cork have had less than a week to sort it out. That's what this championship demands more than anything: quick solutions.
This co-comm on GAAGO for Dub v Wex is so biased!
Dunno who he is, but has a Dublin accent and is shouting "well done" when Dublin win a free ffs
Quote from: Tubberman on May 06, 2023, 06:36:50 PM
This co-comm on GAAGO for Dub v Wex is so biased!
Dunno who he is, but has a Dublin accent and is shouting "well done" when Dublin win a free ffs
Used to be the GK for Dublin
I forked out for gaa go this week and watched Clare Limerick before this evenings games. Clare were impressive.
When was the last time you heard a Dub doing co commentator on a hurling match? I don't recall any.....maybe that tip guy that used to play for them.
Donal og Cusack was on the sunday game tonight giving out about the fact that none of the big hurling games are being televised by RTE and hurling is losing out on a lot of exposure and the chance to recruit more people to the game. I think he may have a point.
I am on here talking to myself after a weekend of hurling games. Problem is nobody has seen the games. I am grown up and can fork out for the games if I want but a young kid who might want to watch hurling is reliant on parents who may or may not be hurling people to pay for gaa go.
Pay per view for an amateur game like hurling does not seem quite right. I wonder who is making money from the gaa go.
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 07, 2023, 11:25:40 PM
Donal og Cusack was on the sunday game tonight giving out about the fact that none of the big hurling games are being televised by RTE and hurling is losing out on a lot of exposure and the chance to recruit more people to the game. I think he may have a point.
I am on here talking to myself after a weekend of hurling games. Problem is nobody has seen the games. I am grown up and can fork out for the games if I want but a young kid who might want to watch hurling is reliant on parents who may or may not be hurling people to pay for gaa go.
Pay per view for an amateur game like hurling does not seem quite right. I wonder who is making money from the gaa go.
Just on the point of Donal Og, he made a point about his nephew that is the same in my house. My son plays Gaelic football and hurling, he could recognise David Clifford & TJ Reid maybe but because of FIFA On the PS he could name pretty much every premier league player.
A football man myself but love the wee ball, and Donal Og is 100%
If the hurling wasn't on gaago it would be on sky sports with the same conversation. No fan of rte but they can only show so many games. If gaago or sky sports weren't broadcasting the games would they be on at all? Split season means all the games are condensed into a shorter window. Does munster hurling need to be promoted before the Tailtean cup etc??
with so many games on these days could they experiment with friday night games in provincials maybe one game per round robin round
RTÉ isn't particularly flúirseach and the GAA wants revenue from streaming even though WiFi is patchy. GAAGO is a joint venture.
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 08, 2023, 12:28:11 AM
If the hurling wasn't on gaago it would be on sky sports with the same conversation. No fan of rte but they can only show so many games. If gaago or sky sports weren't broadcasting the games would they be on at all? Split season means all the games are condensed into a shorter window. Does munster hurling need to be promoted before the Tailtean cup etc??
Yes.
Quote from: Eire90 on May 08, 2023, 02:46:58 AM
with so many games on these days could they experiment with friday night games in provincials maybe one game per round robin round
And expect hard working amateurs to go play championship games after a weeks work? Get real
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on May 08, 2023, 12:14:14 AM
A football man myself but love the wee ball, and Donal Og is 100%
Is he ? if some of the munster hurling matches aren't put behind the pay wall, what hurling matches will be ?
Where will the GAA get the money for paying player expenses ? to pay for the new pairc ui chaoimh ? Fraher Field ? for developing club facilities etc
Donal is a good man for complaining, but does he have any real ideas for promoting it other that putting it on free to air tv
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 08, 2023, 12:28:11 AM
If the hurling wasn't on gaago it would be on sky sports with the same conversation. No fan of rte but they can only show so many games. If gaago or sky sports weren't broadcasting the games would they be on at all? Split season means all the games are condensed into a shorter window. Does munster hurling need to be promoted before the Tailtean cup etc??
A fair whack of the population already have Sky Sports I would think, Gaa Go is an extra expense and a much inferior product the fact that it's streamed. The streaming would instantly rule out some people in rural areas
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 08, 2023, 10:58:27 AM
Quote from: SHEEDY on May 08, 2023, 12:28:11 AM
If the hurling wasn't on gaago it would be on sky sports with the same conversation. No fan of rte but they can only show so many games. If gaago or sky sports weren't broadcasting the games would they be on at all? Split season means all the games are condensed into a shorter window. Does munster hurling need to be promoted before the Tailtean cup etc??
A fair whack of the population already have Sky Sports I would think, Gaa Go is an extra expense and a much inferior product the fact that it's streamed. The streaming would instantly rule out some people in rural areas
Any numbers to back up that claim that a fair whack of the population already have sky sports ? Most articles on the matter point to the sky gaa viewership figures being low https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/business-of-sport/arid-40991783.html . GAAGO isn't perfect, but i feel its a lot better than the sky model
Munster hurling could be a spinoff competition
Quote from: didlyi on May 08, 2023, 09:46:37 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on May 08, 2023, 02:46:58 AM
with so many games on these days could they experiment with friday night games in provincials maybe one game per round robin round
And expect hard working amateurs to go play championship games after a weeks work? Get real
I wouldnt be too worried about that end of things theres not too many players that would be killed working on a site or the likes lol main issue would be the supporters travelling to and from matches.
Dónal Óg only seems to fret about hurling when it involves the big boys from Munster.
The truth is that hurling is a sport whereby the 'hurling people' don't give a flying f**k about anything bar the big beasts.
If you are having a go at RTÉ for hurling how come so many counties never get a minute of live coverage.
Seen a stat saying that by the time the Munster hurling championship finishes all 10 matches will have been shown live and it will be an even split of live games between rte and gaago.
Quote from: didlyi on May 08, 2023, 09:46:37 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on May 08, 2023, 02:46:58 AM
with so many games on these days could they experiment with friday night games in provincials maybe one game per round robin round
And expect hard working amateurs to go play championship games after a weeks work? Get real
it would be restricted to countys that are close and throw does not have to be till after 8pm club players play friday night are they not hard working.
It's Donal Óg's annual plea - https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1548790658885992449?s=20
That time he was moaning the Westmeath hurlers were just being mobbed on the pitch but were only given a few minutes on the same channel that give him his soap box.
https://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2023/05/08/news/cahair_o_kane_we_re_not_ready_for_gaago_and_it_isn_t_ready_for_us-3263329/
Cahair O'Kane: We're not ready for GAAGO, and it isn't ready for us
IT would have been very easy for RTE to throw a sheet over the mirror rather than allow Donal Óg Cusack and Jackie Tyrrell to peer into it on Sunday night.
Given that the Cork-Tipperary game in particular turned out to be a classic that hadn't been widely available to television viewers, they could have taken more time to dissect the nuts and bolts of it.
Instead they gave their pundits a platform for some introspection.
You don't see that very often, anywhere. Usually the last person to blame for anything is the one in the mirror.
When GAAGO was an ugly duckling, it seemed there was a beautiful swan within.
In times of Covid, it provided outstanding service. Virtually the whole National League, across all four divisions, was available to either stream live or watch back on demand.
The big championship games were still carved up for TV between RTÉ and Sky but the vast majority were available for online customers to watch back at any time.
For the eight years that it existed, there was vocal opposition to the Sky deal.
Some were no less vehemently against it at the end than they had been in the beginning.
BBC making a play for greater access harmed Sky's position.
This year's All-Ireland finals will be shown live on BBC2 across the whole of the UK for the first time ever. Past broadcasts had been restricted to BBCNI.
There was nowhere left for Sky to go. They got thrown whatever was on a Saturday evening, a couple of decent qualifiers, their share of All-Ireland quarter-finals and a whole lot fewer subscriptions than they would have wanted because of the rise of dodgy boxes.
£50-odd a month or £100 a year (allegedly)? Legal shmegal.
Paywalls are proven to be damaging to the visibility of sport, and if left long enough, the sport itself.
Cricket, rugby, Premier League, Champions League, you name it, they've all taken the envelope and said to hell with the eyeballs.
Where they differ is that none of them have given the kind of precedence to a streaming service that the GAA have to GAAGO.
Amazon Prime has less than 10 per cent of live Premier League games shown this season.
Prime get 20. BT Sport have 53 and Sky show over 140.
It is pretty much an experiment. See how it runs a few Wednesday nights a year.
How fast the pictures can be transmitted through the internet compared to a standard television signal is the big issue in the world of instantaneous information.
If the goal is 10 seconds late on your screen, chances are you'll already know from your simultaneous scrolling that it's been scored.
GAAGO will show a total of 38 exclusive championship games from 2023 until 2018.
RTÉ television will show 31 plus the Joe McDonagh cup final, both Tailteann cup semi-finals and final.
That means GAAGO is showing 52 per cent of what is being shown live for the next five years.
The subscription element of GAAGO is one thing.
Paywalls are not good for the GAA and they're not good for supporters.
But when I purchased the Early Bird deal away back when it was announced, it cost €59 for the year. That's less than €2 a game, compared to the €13 people are now paying to buy access to individual games.
As subscriptions go, it wasn't wholly unreasonable. I'm still against the idea but it doesn't feel like a fleecing either.
The bigger problem here is that nobody is quite ready for streaming to take over.
Ireland as a country isn't ready for it. While 96 per cent of homes have internet access, in the border (77 per cent) and midland (79 per cent) regions that figure drops way down.
There are plans to develop and improve it, but we're not there yet. The cables, like everything else, get rolled out from Dublin and can take a long time to reach Sligo or Donegal.
The platform itself can be clunky. I'm as tech savvy as any other 34-year-old, but just for a trial on Sunday night, I tried to cast a replay of Antrim-Kilkenny to my TV. There was no cast button in sight.
Football and especially hurling are not games to be consumed whole on a mobile phone.
Aside from the visibility, there's also the communal aspect of people in a room being able to watch it together on a TV screen.
Even if it had worked, in terms of live games, casting is not available on all TV sets and isn't all that handy to do is some cases. It usually comes with a further built-in time delay in transmitting the picture from phone to TV.
The coverage from the games they've done coverage from has seemed good, with Paddy Andrews, Marc Ó Sé and Michael Murphy a fairly strong team for Derry-Monaghan, to lend an example.
Mike Finnerty and Dave McIntyre are excellent commentators, as Grainne McElwain is a host.
But they've also had games with no build-up or pitchside analysis.
And that's grand when it's an alternative. When it's the place you go to for the games that you wouldn't ordinarily expect to see on your terrestrial TV station.
It's not grand for a broadcaster with exclusivity on more than half of the games every summer.
On Saturday 20 May, GAAGO will show Kerry v Mayo and then Galway v Tyrone.
Those are not only the two big ties of that weekend, but probably the two biggest ties of the entire round robin series.
Hurling has been here for a few weeks already.
The blowback ought be loud.
Like most things, this kind of slipped beneath the radar. It was as if Sky are gone, Hallelujah, who cares what happens now.
The Sky deal was many things but one thing you couldn't accuse them of was a bad package. Even the biggest begrudger would admit they did analysis well.
You either had Sky or you didn't. If you had it, you had it on your TV.
A streaming platform, by its nature, will run a number of seconds behind. In a fast-paced, high-scoring sport like hurling, seconds can be a long time.
An email from GAAGO to customers last week conceded that there were some "teething issues" on their opening weekend.
More worryingly, it told recipients that they were having issues with payment through Android phones and that they should purchase via "the website instead".
Given that around 52 per cent of phone users in Ireland use Android, it's the kind of glitch that tells you this thing isn't at the level it needs to be at to occupy the position it now holds.
GAAGO will be a great service in time. It was brilliant during Covid, and as an alternative option for secondary games that might not have squeezed their way into the TV schedule, it would have been invaluable.
But it's a massive error on the GAA's part to have made it a primary broadcaster and to have given it so many games of such significance at this point in its existence.
In his annual report, Tom Ryan said that the big advantage was that GAAGO "will give us complete flexibility and control over match selection, scheduling and how we promote our games".
The other big advantage might be some flexibility in the contracts. It's not a multi-billion pound foreign entity they've signed up with. It's part-owned by the GAA and RTÉ.
You would think in the circumstances, where it's the same vested parties from both sides of it, there has to be some wiggle-room.
Streaming is the future. Eventually it will all go that way.
But it's not the present, least of all for the GAA.
This is a move for years down the line, once the technology is tightened up and readily available to virtually everyone in the country, and when bigger sporting organisations have shown how to lead their broadcast package with it.
GAAGO isn't ready for us, and we're not ready for it.
I understand the frustration of missing two cracking Munster championship games to live TV and all the promotion loss that goes with it, but you got to remember we're in a round robin scenario with 11 games played over 7 weeks and you've more games in Leinster in the same timeframe and we haven't even touched on the football.
It's not RTE's job to promote hurling and as much as I think the GAA do a poor job of promoting hurling (I'm not going to start on lower level hurling) I think GAAGO is a step in the right direction as we now get a lot more access to games than we ever did. I'd prefer a youtube channel but the production process needs paid for somehow.
Donal Og won't give two shiny shítes if Westmeath and Antrim play out an absolute humdinger of a game in a few weeks time and he himself probably couldn't name half the hurlers on the field let alone his nephew..
Oh, got to see the Cork/Tipp game (not saying a firestick was in play or not ;) ) and it was a clinker.
Some great scores throughout, thought Tipp should have held out for the win, subs made a big difference to both teams, Kingston for Cork and Mark Kehoe for Tipp, serious pace in both sets of forwards and both defences struggled with strong running at them hence the scorefest.
Both remain undefeated and now both should be confident of holding out for a top 3 finish but nothing is set in stone yet.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 09, 2023, 10:16:10 AM
I understand the frustration of missing two cracking Munster championship games to live TV and all the promotion loss that goes with it, but you got to remember we're in a round robin scenario with 11 games played over 7 weeks and you've more games in Leinster in the same timeframe and we haven't even touched on the football.
It's not RTE's job to promote hurling and as much as I think the GAA do a poor job of promoting hurling (I'm not going to start on lower level hurling) I think GAAGO is a step in the right direction as we now get a lot more access to games than we ever did. I'd prefer a youtube channel but the production process needs paid for somehow.
Donal Og won't give two shiny shítes if Westmeath and Antrim play out an absolute humdinger of a game in a few weeks time and he himself probably couldn't name half the hurlers on the field let alone his nephew..
Turns out that GAAGO is a joint venture between the GAA and RTE, so I'd have thought that it's no wonder they've had two high profile Munster games on GAAGO to generate a bit of revenue...
A quick quiz on the current Tpp Team, whos father won 3 all Ireland medals in 3 different decades, who has 6 senior club football medals etc etc
and also why us Tipp Lads would prefer if Kyle Hayes didn't start at centre forward for Limerick against us
https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/tipp-team-quiz (https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/tipp-team-quiz)
Quote from: johnnycool on May 10, 2023, 09:36:35 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 09, 2023, 10:16:10 AM
I understand the frustration of missing two cracking Munster championship games to live TV and all the promotion loss that goes with it, but you got to remember we're in a round robin scenario with 11 games played over 7 weeks and you've more games in Leinster in the same timeframe and we haven't even touched on the football.
It's not RTE's job to promote hurling and as much as I think the GAA do a poor job of promoting hurling (I'm not going to start on lower level hurling) I think GAAGO is a step in the right direction as we now get a lot more access to games than we ever did. I'd prefer a youtube channel but the production process needs paid for somehow.
Donal Og won't give two shiny shítes if Westmeath and Antrim play out an absolute humdinger of a game in a few weeks time and he himself probably couldn't name half the hurlers on the field let alone his nephew..
Turns out that GAAGO is a joint venture between the GAA and RTE, so I'd have thought that it's no wonder they've had two high profile Munster games on GAAGO to generate a bit of revenue...
Maybe it's because Munster hurling is box office and there is no box office football this weekend
If the hurling had a more balanced 5+6 split there would be more interesting matches in Leinster and fewer in Munster.
Quote from: seafoid on May 12, 2023, 11:20:44 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 10, 2023, 09:36:35 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 09, 2023, 10:16:10 AM
I understand the frustration of missing two cracking Munster championship games to live TV and all the promotion loss that goes with it, but you got to remember we're in a round robin scenario with 11 games played over 7 weeks and you've more games in Leinster in the same timeframe and we haven't even touched on the football.
It's not RTE's job to promote hurling and as much as I think the GAA do a poor job of promoting hurling (I'm not going to start on lower level hurling) I think GAAGO is a step in the right direction as we now get a lot more access to games than we ever did. I'd prefer a youtube channel but the production process needs paid for somehow.
Donal Og won't give two shiny shítes if Westmeath and Antrim play out an absolute humdinger of a game in a few weeks time and he himself probably couldn't name half the hurlers on the field let alone his nephew..
Turns out that GAAGO is a joint venture between the GAA and RTE, so I'd have thought that it's no wonder they've had two high profile Munster games on GAAGO to generate a bit of revenue...
Maybe it's because Munster hurling is box office and there is no box office football this weekend
If the hurling had a more balanced 5+6 split there would be more interesting matches in Leinster and fewer in Munster.
The only thing of interest in Leinster is the battle for the third spot with the Dubs now in pole position, other than that it's a foregone conclusion.
As talked about in a recent podcast 5 of the 7 top teams are in Munster but there's no will to change this to an open draw so we'll need to live with it.
I thought the first point was strange. "Failing to grab a close match against Limerick. Limerick were deemed unbeatable at the time.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/13/tailteann-cup-previews-cavan-can-begin-charge-for-title-with-win-over-laois/Waterford's two negatives to date have been failing to grab a close match against Limerick, who were down to 14, and the loss of Tadhg de Búrca to another serious injury.
Davy seems to be taking a lot of heat on SM for Waterford's Championship performances this year, any chance he 'steps back' and not take up the second year of his term?
Quote from: NAG1 on May 15, 2023, 01:13:09 PM
Davy seems to be taking a lot of heat on SM for Waterford's Championship performances this year, any chance he 'steps back' and not take up the second year of his term?
He was interviewed and saying stuff like "been here 5 months" "I'll be putting in a powerful amount of work for the next 12 months"
So seems set for another season at the very least
I wouldn't be sure he'll get it.
Hard to know what's gone wrong in Waterford this past few years but a lot of defeats in the round robin since it's started.
Was in finals and semi-finals under Mc Grath but they seem to be fading away badly year on year. They seem to have the spine of a team but I can't figure out what the problem is. They've had a few injuries but not more than any other county.
Is it they'd have no home games and have to play away having that big an impact on them in championship?
Kildare have been a big disappointment in the Joe Mc Donagh.
After shooting up in the Christy Ring, they haven't pushed on at all. Must be a huge gulf between JMcD and CR. Kildare really needed to stay in the Joe Mc Donagh this year to push forward.
Though with underage going well and Naas going well that they'd have got one result to keep them up. Down caught them and gave them a lesson.
Quote from: marty34 on May 15, 2023, 06:51:09 PM
Kildare have been a big disappointment in the Joe Mc Donagh.
After shooting up in the Christy Ring, they haven't pushed on at all. Must be a huge gulf between JMcD and CR. Kildare really needed to stay in the Joe Mc Donagh this year to push forward.
Though with underage going well and Naas going well that they'd have got one result to keep them up. Down caught them and gave them a lesson.
Down have quality hurlers but lack the physicality against big teams, Kildare in the past have usually been a big team but maybe have dropped in recent years, been a while since I've seen them in fairness.
Pity to see Kildare's McDonagh work out the way it did as it looked like they were really on the up. Hurling can be cruel like that as we in antrim know only too well and sometimes the league can be no real barometer. Teams peak at different times etc which I suspect may have happened here.
All the same good to see Down stay up.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2023, 11:16:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 15, 2023, 06:51:09 PM
Kildare have been a big disappointment in the Joe Mc Donagh.
After shooting up in the Christy Ring, they haven't pushed on at all. Must be a huge gulf between JMcD and CR. Kildare really needed to stay in the Joe Mc Donagh this year to push forward.
Though with underage going well and Naas going well that they'd have got one result to keep them up. Down caught them and gave them a lesson.
Down have quality hurlers but lack the physicality against big teams, Kildare in the past have usually been a big team but maybe have dropped in recent years, been a while since I've seen them in fairness.
Down were very poor this year but just had to win 1 match...and that's what happened.
Maybe a year or two too early for Kildare but I thought they'd edge Down.
Huge gap between Mc Donagh and Ring standards. We'll see thst next year again also I'd say.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/16/limerick-face-unexpectedly-crucial-meeting-with-tipperary-in-thurles/
It would have amazed the consensus a month ago were it known that by their third match in the Munster championship, All-Ireland favourites Limerick would be playing for their future.
On Sunday, they head for Thurles to take on a revitalised Tipperary, knowing that they must win to make sure of progressing out of the province they have dominated for the past four years.
"If we don't win on Sunday, we're in trouble," according to county secretary Mike O'Riordan. "Clare are ahead of us on the head-to-head."
Quote from: seafoid on May 16, 2023, 11:29:47 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/16/limerick-face-unexpectedly-crucial-meeting-with-tipperary-in-thurles/
It would have amazed the consensus a month ago were it known that by their third match in the Munster championship, All-Ireland favourites Limerick would be playing for their future.
On Sunday, they head for Thurles to take on a revitalised Tipperary, knowing that they must win to make sure of progressing out of the province they have dominated for the past four years.
"If we don't win on Sunday, we're in trouble," according to county secretary Mike O'Riordan. "Clare are ahead of us on the head-to-head."
Cork beat Clare in Ennis
Tipp beat Limerick in Thurles
Limerick will be gone
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2023, 11:16:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 15, 2023, 06:51:09 PM
Kildare have been a big disappointment in the Joe Mc Donagh.
After shooting up in the Christy Ring, they haven't pushed on at all. Must be a huge gulf between JMcD and CR. Kildare really needed to stay in the Joe Mc Donagh this year to push forward.
Though with underage going well and Naas going well that they'd have got one result to keep them up. Down caught them and gave them a lesson.
Down have quality hurlers but lack the physicality against big teams, Kildare in the past have usually been a big team but maybe have dropped in recent years, been a while since I've seen them in fairness.
Down were targeting this game for a few weeks now, lads carrying knocks held off in other games that ultimately weren't going to matter. Beat Kildare and stay up which they did.
I still struggle with why Down play all their home games in Ballycran and always have. It's the smallest pitch in the county and doesn't suit the forwards Down have at their disposal, albeit I know there's a bit of lack of pace in their defence, but not overly.
Tight pitch suits the big, physical lads better than the speedsters.
As much as I'd like Down to claim a few more scalps at this level I think hanging in here is all we can hope for to the next while.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 16, 2023, 12:04:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2023, 11:16:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 15, 2023, 06:51:09 PM
Kildare have been a big disappointment in the Joe Mc Donagh.
After shooting up in the Christy Ring, they haven't pushed on at all. Must be a huge gulf between JMcD and CR. Kildare really needed to stay in the Joe Mc Donagh this year to push forward.
Though with underage going well and Naas going well that they'd have got one result to keep them up. Down caught them and gave them a lesson.
Down have quality hurlers but lack the physicality against big teams, Kildare in the past have usually been a big team but maybe have dropped in recent years, been a while since I've seen them in fairness.
Down were targeting this game for a few weeks now, lads carrying knocks held off in other games that ultimately weren't going to matter. Beat Kildare and stay up which they did.
I still struggle with why Down play all their home games in Ballycran and always have. It's the smallest pitch in the county and doesn't suit the forwards Down have at their disposal, albeit I know there's a bit of lack of pace in their defence, but not overly.
Tight pitch suits the big, physical lads better than the speedsters.
As much as I'd like Down to claim a few more scalps at this level I think hanging in here is all we can hope for to the next while.
Where would you find a more suitable pitch with a good surface in Down for hurling that would suit them JC? Just asking
Quote from: Walt Jabsco on May 16, 2023, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 16, 2023, 12:04:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2023, 11:16:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 15, 2023, 06:51:09 PM
Kildare have been a big disappointment in the Joe Mc Donagh.
After shooting up in the Christy Ring, they haven't pushed on at all. Must be a huge gulf between JMcD and CR. Kildare really needed to stay in the Joe Mc Donagh this year to push forward.
Though with underage going well and Naas going well that they'd have got one result to keep them up. Down caught them and gave them a lesson.
Down have quality hurlers but lack the physicality against big teams, Kildare in the past have usually been a big team but maybe have dropped in recent years, been a while since I've seen them in fairness.
Down were targeting this game for a few weeks now, lads carrying knocks held off in other games that ultimately weren't going to matter. Beat Kildare and stay up which they did.
I still struggle with why Down play all their home games in Ballycran and always have. It's the smallest pitch in the county and doesn't suit the forwards Down have at their disposal, albeit I know there's a bit of lack of pace in their defence, but not overly.
Tight pitch suits the big, physical lads better than the speedsters.
As much as I'd like Down to claim a few more scalps at this level I think hanging in here is all we can hope for to the next while.
Where would you find a more suitable pitch with a good surface in Down for hurling that would suit them JC? Just asking
Portaferry for a start. Their top pitch holds up well in the winter, no stand though but from a hurling perspective I can live without one.
Liatroim in with an honourable shout, just a bit short for my liking ;)
Quote from: johnnycool on May 16, 2023, 04:03:04 PM
Quote from: Walt Jabsco on May 16, 2023, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 16, 2023, 12:04:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2023, 11:16:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 15, 2023, 06:51:09 PM
Kildare have been a big disappointment in the Joe Mc Donagh.
After shooting up in the Christy Ring, they haven't pushed on at all. Must be a huge gulf between JMcD and CR. Kildare really needed to stay in the Joe Mc Donagh this year to push forward.
Though with underage going well and Naas going well that they'd have got one result to keep them up. Down caught them and gave them a lesson.
Down have quality hurlers but lack the physicality against big teams, Kildare in the past have usually been a big team but maybe have dropped in recent years, been a while since I've seen them in fairness.
Down were targeting this game for a few weeks now, lads carrying knocks held off in other games that ultimately weren't going to matter. Beat Kildare and stay up which they did.
I still struggle with why Down play all their home games in Ballycran and always have. It's the smallest pitch in the county and doesn't suit the forwards Down have at their disposal, albeit I know there's a bit of lack of pace in their defence, but not overly.
Tight pitch suits the big, physical lads better than the speedsters.
As much as I'd like Down to claim a few more scalps at this level I think hanging in here is all we can hope for to the next while.
Where would you find a more suitable pitch with a good surface in Down for hurling that would suit them JC? Just asking
Portaferry for a start. Their top pitch holds up well in the winter, no stand though but from a hurling perspective I can live without one.
Liatroim in with an honourable shout, just a bit short for my liking ;)
What's wrong with Newry? Other than not being in the peninsula obviously.
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:26:43 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 16, 2023, 04:03:04 PM
Quote from: Walt Jabsco on May 16, 2023, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 16, 2023, 12:04:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2023, 11:16:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 15, 2023, 06:51:09 PM
Kildare have been a big disappointment in the Joe Mc Donagh.
After shooting up in the Christy Ring, they haven't pushed on at all. Must be a huge gulf between JMcD and CR. Kildare really needed to stay in the Joe Mc Donagh this year to push forward.
Though with underage going well and Naas going well that they'd have got one result to keep them up. Down caught them and gave them a lesson.
Down have quality hurlers but lack the physicality against big teams, Kildare in the past have usually been a big team but maybe have dropped in recent years, been a while since I've seen them in fairness.
Down were targeting this game for a few weeks now, lads carrying knocks held off in other games that ultimately weren't going to matter. Beat Kildare and stay up which they did.
I still struggle with why Down play all their home games in Ballycran and always have. It's the smallest pitch in the county and doesn't suit the forwards Down have at their disposal, albeit I know there's a bit of lack of pace in their defence, but not overly.
Tight pitch suits the big, physical lads better than the speedsters.
As much as I'd like Down to claim a few more scalps at this level I think hanging in here is all we can hope for to the next while.
Where would you find a more suitable pitch with a good surface in Down for hurling that would suit them JC? Just asking
Portaferry for a start. Their top pitch holds up well in the winter, no stand though but from a hurling perspective I can live without one.
Liatroim in with an honourable shout, just a bit short for my liking ;)
What's wrong with Newry? Other than not being in the peninsula obviously.
Absolutely nothing wrong with Newry either. I'm not saying the crowds are any bigger in the Ards than they would be elsewhere and considering the current (for the time being) Manager is a Shamrocks man I was surprised there wasn't more games there.
The stats must back up Ballycran pitch as being better suited for Down, I just don't see that in their personnel as they're a small team in general.
Most illuminating about pitch's in Down
Full Houses expected in Ennis Sunday and a close to full one in Semple
Also a full house in Carlow tonight for the u20 Leinster final
6 of the Offaly minors from last year starting tonight,
Hurling definitely needs the likes of Offaly back firing
Waterford and Wexford not to fall back
Dublin to play in a Quarter final this year at a minimum
The GAA also be putting in target resources into Counties in the Dubin Commuter Belt such as Kildare and Meath
Quote from: johnnycool on May 17, 2023, 02:30:43 PM
Quote from: Franko on May 17, 2023, 02:26:43 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 16, 2023, 04:03:04 PM
Quote from: Walt Jabsco on May 16, 2023, 01:40:18 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 16, 2023, 12:04:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 15, 2023, 11:16:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 15, 2023, 06:51:09 PM
Kildare have been a big disappointment in the Joe Mc Donagh.
After shooting up in the Christy Ring, they haven't pushed on at all. Must be a huge gulf between JMcD and CR. Kildare really needed to stay in the Joe Mc Donagh this year to push forward.
Though with underage going well and Naas going well that they'd have got one result to keep them up. Down caught them and gave them a lesson.
Down have quality hurlers but lack the physicality against big teams, Kildare in the past have usually been a big team but maybe have dropped in recent years, been a while since I've seen them in fairness.
Down were targeting this game for a few weeks now, lads carrying knocks held off in other games that ultimately weren't going to matter. Beat Kildare and stay up which they did.
I still struggle with why Down play all their home games in Ballycran and always have. It's the smallest pitch in the county and doesn't suit the forwards Down have at their disposal, albeit I know there's a bit of lack of pace in their defence, but not overly.
Tight pitch suits the big, physical lads better than the speedsters.
As much as I'd like Down to claim a few more scalps at this level I think hanging in here is all we can hope for to the next while.
Where would you find a more suitable pitch with a good surface in Down for hurling that would suit them JC? Just asking
Portaferry for a start. Their top pitch holds up well in the winter, no stand though but from a hurling perspective I can live without one.
Liatroim in with an honourable shout, just a bit short for my liking ;)
What's wrong with Newry? Other than not being in the peninsula obviously.
Absolutely nothing wrong with Newry either. I'm not saying the crowds are any bigger in the Ards than they would be elsewhere and considering the current (for the time being) Manager is a Shamrocks man I was surprised there wasn't more games there.
The stats must back up Ballycran pitch as being better suited for Down, I just don't see that in their personnel as they're a small team in general.
Ah fair enough, just thought there might have been an issue with it for whatever reason
Which I couldn't work out - as any time I was there it was top notch
Great to see such a turn out last night for the Offaly Wexford U20s. Good lively game as well.
Kudos to Tg4 again, these U20 and Minor matches past few weeks have been great watches.
Quote from: NAG1 on May 18, 2023, 09:43:11 AM
Great to see such a turn out last night for the Offaly Wexford U20s. Good lively game as well.
Kudos to Tg4 again, these U20 and Minor matches past few weeks have been great watches.
TG4 the true home of Gaelic Games
Quote from: clonadmad on May 18, 2023, 09:53:11 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 18, 2023, 09:43:11 AM
Great to see such a turn out last night for the Offaly Wexford U20s. Good lively game as well.
Kudos to Tg4 again, these U20 and Minor matches past few weeks have been great watches.
TG4 the true home of Gaelic Games
Totally.
Cork V Clare in the U20's on Monday night was excellent also.
Fantastic coverage.
Quote from: marty34 on May 18, 2023, 12:11:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 18, 2023, 09:53:11 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 18, 2023, 09:43:11 AM
Great to see such a turn out last night for the Offaly Wexford U20s. Good lively game as well.
Kudos to Tg4 again, these U20 and Minor matches past few weeks have been great watches.
TG4 the true home of Gaelic Games
Totally.
Cork V Clare in the U20's on Monday night was excellent also.
Fantastic coverage.
Some of the best games about are the U20 championship as well as the minor ones.
Cork Centre back O'Connor, poised to go to the rugby, he's been close to a few reds the last two games, physicality is good but needs harnessed.
Ben Cunningham, Ger's son is some spud and Clare have some real good hurlers in their ranks also, I've liked their fullback Conneally the last few times I've saw him. Too early for senior though, a few runs out in a national league come 2024 will be soon enough.
Galway minors had held Kilkenny to three points going into the last 5 minutes of the first half in Portloaise, KK managed to get that up to 6 to take the bad look of it and give it a right go but Galway had too much for them. No wonder they didn't want Galway minors in Leinster.
Quote from: marty34 on May 18, 2023, 12:11:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 18, 2023, 09:53:11 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 18, 2023, 09:43:11 AM
Great to see such a turn out last night for the Offaly Wexford U20s. Good lively game as well.
Kudos to Tg4 again, these U20 and Minor matches past few weeks have been great watches.
TG4 the true home of Gaelic Games
Totally.
Cork V Clare in the U20's on Monday night was excellent also.
Fantastic coverage.
Youd have to have Cork down as favourites to win it out now
Offaly have some lovely hurlers but it could be a year or 2 soon for them to win the u20 All Ireland.
It would be only brilliant to see them back at the top table.
it will be interesting to see,will it be a double header with the Joe Mc Cup, Offaly have definitely one u20 starter with their seniors which would involve them having to make a tough decision.
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 18, 2023, 03:11:49 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 18, 2023, 12:11:27 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 18, 2023, 09:53:11 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 18, 2023, 09:43:11 AM
Great to see such a turn out last night for the Offaly Wexford U20s. Good lively game as well.
Kudos to Tg4 again, these U20 and Minor matches past few weeks have been great watches.
TG4 the true home of Gaelic Games
Totally.
Cork V Clare in the U20's on Monday night was excellent also.
Fantastic coverage.
Youd have to have Cork down as favourites to win it out now
Offaly have some lovely hurlers but it could be a year or 2 soon for them to win the u20 All Ireland.
It would be only brilliant to see them back at the top table.
it will be interesting to see,will it be a double header with the Joe Mc Cup, Offaly have definitely one u20 starter with their seniors which would involve them having to make a tough decision.
The physicality of the Cork team is way ahead of Offaly at this point. The S&C programmes seem to have been on different levels.
With regards to S&C in intercounty teams, I was pitch side watching the Kilkenny lads mingle after the game, and couldn't help noticed the difference, upper body wasn't much difference, Kilkenny slightly ahead of that but the strength in the legs was different gravy altogether, they must be squatting big weights, which will help in those rucks, breaking tackles, fielding and running.. Are we missing this or just not at that level yet?
By the way I don't always looks at mens legs ;D
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 19, 2023, 09:24:24 AM
With regards to S&C in intercounty teams, I was pitch side watching the Kilkenny lads mingle after the game, and couldn't help noticed the difference, upper body wasn't much difference, Kilkenny slightly ahead of that but the strength in the legs was different gravy altogether, they must be squatting big weights, which will help in those rucks, breaking tackles, fielding and running.. Are we missing this or just not at that level yet?
By the way I don't always looks at mens legs ;D
My young fella got his photo taken on the pitch with Mossy Keoghan after it & I see what you are saying, he was really powerfully built with legs like a rugby player
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/20/nicky-english-re-energised-tipperary-the-litmus-test-for-limericks-wayward-championship-run/
Nicky English: Re-energised Tipperary the litmus test for Limerick's wayward championship run
Champions under pressure in Thurles whereas earlier in Ennis, Clare look that bit better than Cork
Nicky English
Sat May 20 2023 - 05:00
We have arrived at a pivotal week in the Munster championship. In a short space of time, we have moved from Limerick's four-in-a-row being a foregone conclusion to a match that is suddenly the litmus test of the champions' whole season.
They underperformed against Waterford. The intensity against Clare was actually quite good if you look back at it and they lost by just a point but the key concern is that their scoring rate has diminished. The range of scoring potential is also reduced with Cian Lynch, Peter Casey and Gearóid Hegarty not as prolific to date.
This match will tell us a lot about Limerick. Tipperary have been fresh, energetic and revitalised with a number of interesting, young players like Alan Tynan in the middle of the field and Bryan O'Mara, who have added to the team but unfortunately for them, they are missing Jason Forde, who had been having his best year.
Munster is so delicately balanced that if the teams come out, knowing that Cork have beaten Clare in Ennis, Limerick will have to win to stay in the championship
I still believe that Limerick can't afford to be significantly less effective than they were against Clare and they don't have Seán Finn, who would typically be marking Forde because of a season-ending injury and is their top defender.
Munster is so delicately balanced that if the teams come out, knowing that Cork have beaten Clare in Ennis, Limerick will have to win to stay in the championship.
Both matches are really exciting prospects and there is likely to be a huge attendance in Thurles and the biggest Tipp crowd that has been seen in 2023.
They will be in attendance because of growing faith in the team's resurgence after the win in Ennis and even the draw in Cork, which they could have won. There have been flaws, most obviously the concession of seven goals in two matches and they were lucky not to concede a few more. That has to be a concern.
Having reviewed both games, it was hard to pinpoint any systemic errors that were causing this but such hospitable defending is a fact.
They have also picked up yellow cards, which is a danger but that vulnerability has been caused by pace, such as Ryan Taylor against Clare and Darragh Fitzgibbon in the Cork match running at the Tipperary defence.
That pace is not a feature of the Limerick game but hard running is and with Kyle Hayes, Hegarty, Tom Morrissey and Will O'Donoghue, it has been one of the difficulties that Tipperary have had with them in recent years as well as the damage done by their half-back line.
They have taken control from that line of the whole middle third, which led to the amazing turnaround in the 2021 Munster final and also the league semi-final last March. Having established that domination, they got scores from Byrnes, Hannon and Colin Coughlan in the absence of Kyle Hayes, who did such damage in 2021.
In both those cases, Tipp played into the wind in the second half and could not bypass the Limerick half-back line. Liam Cahill has to figure out a response to that — which Clare did — because his team just couldn't win any ball in the key areas during the second half of that league semi-final.
It's likely that the choice of Bonner Maher is designed for this purpose.
They had to face waves of attack, as opposed to the different threat of Cork, coming from the half-forward line rather than in stacked phalanxes from farther back, establishing the platform for Aaron Gillane and Séamus Flanagan to prosper.
Tipperary have been forceful around the middle of the field and scoring has been impressive, led by Jake Morris and with Mark Kehoe coming in and contributing.
Forde is a huge loss. At a minimum, he is a very reliable free-taker. Who will take over? Gearóid O'Connor has been a very successful free taker for UL and did well on the last day when thrust into it.
It's a bigger deal to have to go out knowing you're on the frees from the start. It will be a huge test for a young player if that's the way it falls.
If Limerick's problem is simply the lower conversion rate that John Kiely has acknowledged, that's fixable. As well as that, the intensity of Clare-Limerick was higher than any other championship match this year.
I've questioned whether Cusack Park is as big an advantage to Clare as it used to be. Tipp used their tight skills to win there
So far they have exhibited vulnerability but they have too much in a match that unlike Tipp, they can't afford to lose. In doing so, they can reset their whole championship.
Kilkenny to do the business v Dublin
Clare to win in a sold out Ennis
Limerick to do what they normally have done the past few years v Tipperary
Is tickets hard to come by for tipp v Limerick
Quote from: clonadmad on May 20, 2023, 11:00:00 AM
Kilkenny to do the business v Dublin
Clare to win in a sold out Ennis
Limerick to do what they normally have done the past few years v Tipperary
Near full house at Tipp game also.
After 3 weeks break, you'd think Limerick would be fired up.
Quote from: marty34 on May 21, 2023, 10:57:01 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 20, 2023, 11:00:00 AM
Kilkenny to do the business v Dublin
Clare to win in a sold out Ennis
Limerick to do what they normally have done the past few years v Tipperary
Near full house at Tipp game also.
After 3 weeks break, you'd think Limerick would be fired up.
Clare beating Cork which is a very real possibility will mean Limerick have to beat Tipp which I think they will do.
It's good to have meaningful games this early in the championship
Kilkenny's better skill gets them past Dublin who matched them physically but ultimately That ability to find unanswered scores puts the game to bed.
Kilkenny won't be winning this year or next few years.
Todays games are going to be epic, everything on the line, could be a shock
Antrim giving Galway a good match.
Hon de Banner.
Rip roaring contest in Ennis, Clare finished the half strongly to lead by 4.
Cork struggling with big Duggan , Kelly feeding off the breaks well but the Cork forwards are dangerous too
Still all to play for
I see Joanna and Donal Og started off with who's the biggest arsehole competition
Clare are going to throw this away...
Yip .
Let's see will they reference the blatant dive at the end to overturn that free.
But sure the hurling lads wouldn't be diving. Would they?
Quote from: Mourne Red on May 21, 2023, 03:04:00 PM
I see Joanna and Donal Og started off with who's the biggest arsehole competition
I though she done very well with his smarminess. Hurling snobbery out in force this week!
Good start by Tipp. The name of the game is intensity.
Tipp have started off better than Limerick. Will it continue like that?
Clare deserved the win against Cork. I think they might get their first Munster championship in 25 years. Another great game.
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 21, 2023, 04:28:47 PM
Tipp have started off better than Limerick. Will it continue like that?
Clare deserved the win against Cork. I think they might get their first Munster championship in 25 years. Another great game.
They might have to beat Limerick to win it. Or not.
RTE
70 (+3) mins Wexford 2-22 Westmeath 4-17
An incredible story deveoping at Wexford Park, where Westmeath lead the hosts late on...
They won
Limerick are not as accurate as usual. It's neck and neck. Tipp backs are fantastic
Another blatant dive by tipp player. 2 games 2 shocking cheating acts.
And no doubt Donal Og the mouth won't mention a thing.
Tipp 0-25 Limerick 0-25 result. looking like Tipp v Clare Munster final. Limerick v Cork where the winner will have a Preliminary quarter final and the loser out of the championship.
Limerick have to beat Cork . Cork have to beat Limerick.
Quote from: 5times5times on May 21, 2023, 05:32:44 PM
Another blatant dive by tipp player. 2 games 2 shocking cheating acts.
And no doubt Donal Og the mouth won't mention a thing.
A big throwing yourself to the ground by either Hannon or Byrnes, thankfully the ref waved play on.
Limerick not firing yet and will need to beat Cork next week or they're gone...
Tipp Clare final by the looks of it.
At least the Down footballers got to see a good half of hurling before heading back up the road.
One worry for Clare was Quilligan was back to handing out gifts to the opposition again today. Batting out an easy penalty save to Cork for one goal and diving out of the way of Horgans shot for Corks third goal.
Quote from: 5times5times on May 21, 2023, 05:32:44 PM
Another blatant dive by tipp player. 2 games 2 shocking cheating acts.
And no doubt Donal Og the mouth won't mention a thing.
When was the dive in the Clare match I didn't see any dive?
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 21, 2023, 06:09:09 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on May 21, 2023, 05:32:44 PM
Another blatant dive by tipp player. 2 games 2 shocking cheating acts.
And no doubt Donal Og the mouth won't mention a thing.
When was the dive in the Clare match I didn't see any dive?
Kelly was definitely making a meal of things at the very end of the match.
Quote from: seafoid on May 21, 2023, 05:58:32 PM
Limerick have to beat Cork . Cork have to beat Limerick.
Definately Munster knock-out championship there.
Winner takes all.
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 21, 2023, 06:04:18 PM
One worry for Clare was Quilligan was back to handing out gifts to the opposition again today. Batting out an easy penalty save to Cork for one goal and diving out of the way of Horgans shot for Corks third goal.
Yeah, they've had issues early in the year.
Goalkeeper faults show up moreso than outfield players.
Clare are motoring rightly and Duggan is some outlet option in at ff. Wins it or breaks it. A real hanful.
Still hard to know about Cork. Questions are still there so I give a hesitant nod to Limerick next week.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 21, 2023, 06:16:06 PM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 21, 2023, 06:09:09 PM
Quote from: 5times5times on May 21, 2023, 05:32:44 PM
Another blatant dive by tipp player. 2 games 2 shocking cheating acts.
And no doubt Donal Og the mouth won't mention a thing.
When was the dive in the Clare match I didn't see any dive?
Kelly was definitely making a meal of things at the very end of the match.
He is hardly Bruno. I don't know if he dived but he was definitely fouled.
https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1660329181295640577
Some win for Westmeath. But all the more amazing given how much a deficit they had to come back from.
Is Leo Cullen in charge of the Wexford hurlers?
The defending was cat. 3 major hurling counties are currently in various stages of distress.
Hurling folk.
Is Donal Og an insightful pundit?
I don't watch much of your game but every time I hear him speak he's the kind of person I'd walk around the block to avoid. Just comes across as pointed, angry and sullen.
Him and Cantwell together is my idea of tv hell.
Quote from: thewobbler on May 21, 2023, 08:08:56 PM
Hurling folk.
Is Donal Og an insightful pundit?
I don't watch much of your game but every time I hear him speak he's the kind of person I'd walk around the block to avoid. Just comes across as pointed, angry and sullen.
Him and Cantwell together is my idea of tv hell.
He can be extremist and angry as well as very partisan, I think. He wouldn't be my favourite pundit.
Both games could have been great finals...
Munster Championship has been top notch again regardless of how Limerick have dominated, the plus side is they've raised the bar for the rest
Quote from: thewobbler on May 21, 2023, 08:08:56 PM
Hurling folk.
Is Donal Og an insightful pundit?
I don't watch much of your game but every time I hear him speak he's the kind of person I'd walk around the block to avoid. Just comes across as pointed, angry and sullen.
Him and Cantwell together is my idea of tv hell.
There was some atmosphere in the studio when the two of them went at it ... Dalo and Joe didn't know where to look. :(
As for his analysis, he can bring some good points but you'd think he's the first to ever think of them.
I like Liam Sheedy better for that, but there are far better analysis online from the likes of the 42.ie, Christy O'Connor etc.
Limerick blew it at the end when Mulcahy took the point instead of playing a support runner in on goals.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 21, 2023, 09:28:44 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on May 21, 2023, 08:08:56 PM
Hurling folk.
Is Donal Og an insightful pundit?
I don't watch much of your game but every time I hear him speak he's the kind of person I'd walk around the block to avoid. Just comes across as pointed, angry and sullen.
Him and Cantwell together is my idea of tv hell.
There was some atmosphere in the studio when the two of them went at it ... Dalo and Joe didn't know where to look. :(
As for his analysis, he can bring some good points but you'd think he's the first to ever think of them.
I like Liam Sheedy better for that, but there are far better analysis online from the likes of the 42.ie, Christy O'Connor etc.
Donal Óg's a bit arrogant and Cantwell's the same. Like to be in the limelight.
He reads a report on the Friday before games on RTE 1 I think. Very flowery language but he's ok in terms of analysis but likes the attention.
I think Jackie Hurley is good. Keeps the conversation going without being aggressive.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/22/nicky-english-exceptional-contest-leaves-tipp-still-standing-and-limerick-facing-fight-for-survival/
Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2023, 07:04:25 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/22/nicky-english-exceptional-contest-leaves-tipp-still-standing-and-limerick-facing-fight-for-survival/
Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.
You can say that again!
Quote from: johnnycool on May 22, 2023, 08:00:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2023, 07:04:25 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/22/nicky-english-exceptional-contest-leaves-tipp-still-standing-and-limerick-facing-fight-for-survival/
Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.
You can say that again!
;D ;D ;D
If only he could think for himself and not post other peoples shite!
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2023, 07:04:25 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/22/nicky-english-exceptional-contest-leaves-tipp-still-standing-and-limerick-facing-fight-for-survival/
Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.
Sean Finn a huge loss for them
Cian Lynch a shadow of his former self
Hegarty at war with himself and anyone near him
There's an uncharacteristic hesitancy to their play particularly in the forwards at the minute whether that is fatigue or lack of appetite is hard to tell but they are going to have to pull it of the fire against Cork to survive now.
Tipp are the image of their manager, tough uncompromising with the odd flash of flair
Jason Forde a huge loss but it was great to see the likes of Jake Morris and Mark Kehoe finally taking on leadership roles.
Its amazing what you can do when you have a proper management set up and people that know what they are doing as opposed to the unmitigated disaster of 2022,the County Board took a lot of flak for doing what they did, but it turns out to have been the correct decision.
the Joanne and Donal Og argument
She's promoted beyond her ability and obviously was told to ambush him by her producer with that line of Questioning, It also was neither the time nor place for it
He's a passionate Hurling man who stands up for his sport, most of the time with cogent well thought out arguments
Id have him over the likes of the nodding dog that is Cavanagh on the football side.
Tipp didn't bow down to Limerick this time, I thought the momentum would take Limerick over the line once they got going but the intensity from both would not be out of place come finals day..
Compare that to the Leinster championship and its chalk and cheese
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 22, 2023, 09:09:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2023, 07:04:25 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/22/nicky-english-exceptional-contest-leaves-tipp-still-standing-and-limerick-facing-fight-for-survival/
Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.
Sean Finn a huge loss for them
Cian Lynch a shadow of his former self
Hegarty at war with himself and anyone near him
There's an uncharacteristic hesitancy to their play particularly in the forwards at the minute whether that is fatigue or lack of appetite is hard to tell but they are going to have to pull it of the fire against Cork to survive now.
Tipp are the image of their manager, tough uncompromising with the odd flash of flair
Jason Forde a huge loss but it was great to see the likes of Jake Morris and Mark Kehoe finally taking on leadership roles.
Its amazing what you can do when you have a proper management set up and people that know what they are doing as opposed to the unmitigated disaster of 2022,the County Board took a lot of flak for doing what they did, but it turns out to have been the correct decision.
the Joanne and Donal Og argument
She's promoted beyond her ability and obviously was told to ambush him by her producer with that line of Questioning, It also was neither the time nor place for it
He's a passionate Hurling man who stands up for his sport, most of the time with cogent well thought out arguments
Id have him over the likes of the nodding dog that is Cavanagh on the football side.
He does but every once in a while he picks fights that he doesn't need to.
The comments on the tailteann cup actually took away from the point he was making and was a cheap shot.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 22, 2023, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 22, 2023, 09:09:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2023, 07:04:25 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/22/nicky-english-exceptional-contest-leaves-tipp-still-standing-and-limerick-facing-fight-for-survival/
Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.
Sean Finn a huge loss for them
Cian Lynch a shadow of his former self
Hegarty at war with himself and anyone near him
There's an uncharacteristic hesitancy to their play particularly in the forwards at the minute whether that is fatigue or lack of appetite is hard to tell but they are going to have to pull it of the fire against Cork to survive now.
Tipp are the image of their manager, tough uncompromising with the odd flash of flair
Jason Forde a huge loss but it was great to see the likes of Jake Morris and Mark Kehoe finally taking on leadership roles.
Its amazing what you can do when you have a proper management set up and people that know what they are doing as opposed to the unmitigated disaster of 2022,the County Board took a lot of flak for doing what they did, but it turns out to have been the correct decision.
the Joanne and Donal Og argument
She's promoted beyond her ability and obviously was told to ambush him by her producer with that line of Questioning, It also was neither the time nor place for it
He's a passionate Hurling man who stands up for his sport, most of the time with cogent well thought out arguments
Id have him over the likes of the nodding dog that is Cavanagh on the football side.
He does but every once in a while he picks fights that he doesn't need to.
The comments on the tailteann cup actually took away from the point he was making and was a cheap shot.
Donal Óg has no interest in promoting hurling in lower tier counties. He couldn't care less so as being called a passionate hurling man...it is what it is...a load of waffle.
As I say, he and Cantwell light the limelight. Always about them.
2 fantastic games yesterday. Munster has it all. Every game is as important as the next.
Would love to see Kerry in Munster round robin also. If Westmeath and Antrim can be in Leinster, Kerry should be in Munster.
Donal Og is one of these people who thinks he's entitled to talk down to everyone about hurling.
He's latest, and quite bizarre, gripe is with Kerry for some reason. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he's applied for the Kerry job in the past and didn't get it. As along with a lot of other things with him in his head Kerry should bend over backwards to get him as manager and should just get the job.
A few years ago he was all about "Team Ulster" and Ulster hurling in general. Again it wouldn't surprise me if he had applied for the Antrim job and didn't get it. So he now also has a grip with Antrim.
I don't know what it is with him but for a man now in his mid 40s he's incredibly childish about everything.
And likely will play the "you know what card" down the line when he keeps p155ing people off. Snob of the highest order
Quote from: johnnycool on May 22, 2023, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 22, 2023, 09:09:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2023, 07:04:25 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/22/nicky-english-exceptional-contest-leaves-tipp-still-standing-and-limerick-facing-fight-for-survival/
Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.
Sean Finn a huge loss for them
Cian Lynch a shadow of his former self
Hegarty at war with himself and anyone near him
There's an uncharacteristic hesitancy to their play particularly in the forwards at the minute whether that is fatigue or lack of appetite is hard to tell but they are going to have to pull it of the fire against Cork to survive now.
Tipp are the image of their manager, tough uncompromising with the odd flash of flair
Jason Forde a huge loss but it was great to see the likes of Jake Morris and Mark Kehoe finally taking on leadership roles.
Its amazing what you can do when you have a proper management set up and people that know what they are doing as opposed to the unmitigated disaster of 2022,the County Board took a lot of flak for doing what they did, but it turns out to have been the correct decision.
the Joanne and Donal Og argument
She's promoted beyond her ability and obviously was told to ambush him by her producer with that line of Questioning, It also was neither the time nor place for it
He's a passionate Hurling man who stands up for his sport, most of the time with cogent well thought out arguments
Id have him over the likes of the nodding dog that is Cavanagh on the football side.
He does but every once in a while he picks fights that he doesn't need to.
The comments on the tailteann cup actually took away from the point he was making and was a cheap shot.
The comments on the Tailteann Cup were idiotic
It let the GAA Hierarchy along with McBennett and Dee Forbes in RTE off the hook as the narrative was about GAA Go v the ordinary Hurling supporter
Instead Donal Og with his comments turned it into a Football v Hurling argument
Granted some on the Football side should have spotted this also and given it the oxygen of publicity but they couldn't help themselves either
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 12:00:47 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 22, 2023, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 22, 2023, 09:09:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2023, 07:04:25 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/22/nicky-english-exceptional-contest-leaves-tipp-still-standing-and-limerick-facing-fight-for-survival/
Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.
Sean Finn a huge loss for them
Cian Lynch a shadow of his former self
Hegarty at war with himself and anyone near him
There's an uncharacteristic hesitancy to their play particularly in the forwards at the minute whether that is fatigue or lack of appetite is hard to tell but they are going to have to pull it of the fire against Cork to survive now.
Tipp are the image of their manager, tough uncompromising with the odd flash of flair
Jason Forde a huge loss but it was great to see the likes of Jake Morris and Mark Kehoe finally taking on leadership roles.
Its amazing what you can do when you have a proper management set up and people that know what they are doing as opposed to the unmitigated disaster of 2022,the County Board took a lot of flak for doing what they did, but it turns out to have been the correct decision.
the Joanne and Donal Og argument
She's promoted beyond her ability and obviously was told to ambush him by her producer with that line of Questioning, It also was neither the time nor place for it
He's a passionate Hurling man who stands up for his sport, most of the time with cogent well thought out arguments
Id have him over the likes of the nodding dog that is Cavanagh on the football side.
He does but every once in a while he picks fights that he doesn't need to.
The comments on the tailteann cup actually took away from the point he was making and was a cheap shot.
Donal Óg has no interest in promoting hurling in lower tier counties. He couldn't care less so as being called a passionate hurling man...it is what it is...a load of waffle.
As I say, he and Cantwell light the limelight. Always about them.
2 fantastic games yesterday. Munster has it all. Every game is as important as the next.
Would love to see Kerry in Munster round robin also. If Westmeath and Antrim can be in Leinster, Kerry should be in Munster.
if Kerry win the Joe McDonagh at any point
they will be in the Munster Hurling Championship
Its up to the lower tier counties to get their own houses in order instead of pointing at Donal Og or anyone else.
Duignan and Offaly being a prime example of what you can do,if you get your House in order.
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 22, 2023, 12:49:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 12:00:47 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 22, 2023, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 22, 2023, 09:09:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2023, 07:04:25 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/22/nicky-english-exceptional-contest-leaves-tipp-still-standing-and-limerick-facing-fight-for-survival/
Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.
Sean Finn a huge loss for them
Cian Lynch a shadow of his former self
Hegarty at war with himself and anyone near him
There's an uncharacteristic hesitancy to their play particularly in the forwards at the minute whether that is fatigue or lack of appetite is hard to tell but they are going to have to pull it of the fire against Cork to survive now.
Tipp are the image of their manager, tough uncompromising with the odd flash of flair
Jason Forde a huge loss but it was great to see the likes of Jake Morris and Mark Kehoe finally taking on leadership roles.
Its amazing what you can do when you have a proper management set up and people that know what they are doing as opposed to the unmitigated disaster of 2022,the County Board took a lot of flak for doing what they did, but it turns out to have been the correct decision.
the Joanne and Donal Og argument
She's promoted beyond her ability and obviously was told to ambush him by her producer with that line of Questioning, It also was neither the time nor place for it
He's a passionate Hurling man who stands up for his sport, most of the time with cogent well thought out arguments
Id have him over the likes of the nodding dog that is Cavanagh on the football side.
He does but every once in a while he picks fights that he doesn't need to.
The comments on the tailteann cup actually took away from the point he was making and was a cheap shot.
Donal Óg has no interest in promoting hurling in lower tier counties. He couldn't care less so as being called a passionate hurling man...it is what it is...a load of waffle.
As I say, he and Cantwell light the limelight. Always about them.
2 fantastic games yesterday. Munster has it all. Every game is as important as the next.
Would love to see Kerry in Munster round robin also. If Westmeath and Antrim can be in Leinster, Kerry should be in Munster.
if Kerry win the Joe McDonagh at any point
they will be in the Munster Hurling Championship
Its up to the lower tier counties to get their own houses in order instead of pointing at Donal Og or anyone else.
Duignan and Offaly being a prime example of what you can do,if you get your House in order.
Duignan has done well but Offaly should never have been in the Christy ring to begin with. Somebody seriously took their eye off the ball there with regards to underage development in that county over a long period of time.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on May 21, 2023, 07:12:59 PM
Some win for Westmeath. But all the more amazing given how much a deficit they had to come back from.
Is Leo Cullen in charge of the Wexford hurlers?
Fair play to Westmeath, some comeback. All to play for next week, anyone out of Antrim, Westmeath or Wexford could be down. It will make for an exciting days hurling.
Quote from: keep her low this half on May 22, 2023, 01:08:23 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 22, 2023, 12:49:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 12:00:47 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 22, 2023, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 22, 2023, 09:09:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2023, 07:04:25 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/22/nicky-english-exceptional-contest-leaves-tipp-still-standing-and-limerick-facing-fight-for-survival/
Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.
Sean Finn a huge loss for them
Cian Lynch a shadow of his former self
Hegarty at war with himself and anyone near him
There's an uncharacteristic hesitancy to their play particularly in the forwards at the minute whether that is fatigue or lack of appetite is hard to tell but they are going to have to pull it of the fire against Cork to survive now.
Tipp are the image of their manager, tough uncompromising with the odd flash of flair
Jason Forde a huge loss but it was great to see the likes of Jake Morris and Mark Kehoe finally taking on leadership roles.
Its amazing what you can do when you have a proper management set up and people that know what they are doing as opposed to the unmitigated disaster of 2022,the County Board took a lot of flak for doing what they did, but it turns out to have been the correct decision.
the Joanne and Donal Og argument
She's promoted beyond her ability and obviously was told to ambush him by her producer with that line of Questioning, It also was neither the time nor place for it
He's a passionate Hurling man who stands up for his sport, most of the time with cogent well thought out arguments
Id have him over the likes of the nodding dog that is Cavanagh on the football side.
He does but every once in a while he picks fights that he doesn't need to.
The comments on the tailteann cup actually took away from the point he was making and was a cheap shot.
Donal Óg has no interest in promoting hurling in lower tier counties. He couldn't care less so as being called a passionate hurling man...it is what it is...a load of waffle.
As I say, he and Cantwell light the limelight. Always about them.
2 fantastic games yesterday. Munster has it all. Every game is as important as the next.
Would love to see Kerry in Munster round robin also. If Westmeath and Antrim can be in Leinster, Kerry should be in Munster.
if Kerry win the Joe McDonagh at any point
they will be in the Munster Hurling Championship
Its up to the lower tier counties to get their own houses in order instead of pointing at Donal Og or anyone else.
Duignan and Offaly being a prime example of what you can do,if you get your House in order.
Duignan has done well but Offaly should never have been in the Christy ring to begin with. Somebody seriously took their eye off the ball there with regards to underage development in that county over a long period of time.
They were in the Christy Ring because the results put them there.
they are doing the work now to get them back to where they need to be,in both codes.
A template for so called weaker hurling with much larger populations than Offaly to use
Quote from: keep her low this half on May 22, 2023, 01:12:16 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on May 21, 2023, 07:12:59 PM
Some win for Westmeath. But all the more amazing given how much a deficit they had to come back from.
Is Leo Cullen in charge of the Wexford hurlers?
Fair play to Westmeath, some comeback. All to play for next week, anyone out of Antrim, Westmeath or Wexford could be down. It will make for an exciting days hurling.
Wexford beating Kilkenny would be a bit of a stretch considering the form they're in.
The yellabellies will be hoping Westmeath overturn Antrim as that's their best bet of staying up. The game in Mullingar coupled with a few injuries on the Antrim team might just do it.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 22, 2023, 01:26:55 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on May 22, 2023, 01:12:16 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on May 21, 2023, 07:12:59 PM
Some win for Westmeath. But all the more amazing given how much a deficit they had to come back from.
Is Leo Cullen in charge of the Wexford hurlers?
Fair play to Westmeath, some comeback. All to play for next week, anyone out of Antrim, Westmeath or Wexford could be down. It will make for an exciting days hurling.
Wexford beating Kilkenny would be a bit of a stretch considering the form they're in.
The yellabellies will be hoping Westmeath overturn Antrim as that's their best bet of staying up. The game in Mullingar coupled with a few injuries on the Antrim team might just do it.
If Westmeath were cunning they might let Antrim beat them provided Kilkenny beat Wexford
Better to have the likes of Offaly or Carlow in Leinster next year than Wexford
Do the Munster Hurling Final tickets go on general sale?
RTÉ's live hurling games next Sunday will be Dublin v Galway at 2pm and Limerick v Cork at 4pm
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 22, 2023, 12:49:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 12:00:47 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 22, 2023, 11:37:14 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 22, 2023, 09:09:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 22, 2023, 07:04:25 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/22/nicky-english-exceptional-contest-leaves-tipp-still-standing-and-limerick-facing-fight-for-survival/
Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.Limerick aren't the team of the league final but they weren't beaten either and are still there but key players aren't in good form and they're not hitting the 30 points that used to be standard for them. Other teams will smell blood.
Sean Finn a huge loss for them
Cian Lynch a shadow of his former self
Hegarty at war with himself and anyone near him
There's an uncharacteristic hesitancy to their play particularly in the forwards at the minute whether that is fatigue or lack of appetite is hard to tell but they are going to have to pull it of the fire against Cork to survive now.
Tipp are the image of their manager, tough uncompromising with the odd flash of flair
Jason Forde a huge loss but it was great to see the likes of Jake Morris and Mark Kehoe finally taking on leadership roles.
Its amazing what you can do when you have a proper management set up and people that know what they are doing as opposed to the unmitigated disaster of 2022,the County Board took a lot of flak for doing what they did, but it turns out to have been the correct decision.
the Joanne and Donal Og argument
She's promoted beyond her ability and obviously was told to ambush him by her producer with that line of Questioning, It also was neither the time nor place for it
He's a passionate Hurling man who stands up for his sport, most of the time with cogent well thought out arguments
Id have him over the likes of the nodding dog that is Cavanagh on the football side.
He does but every once in a while he picks fights that he doesn't need to.
The comments on the tailteann cup actually took away from the point he was making and was a cheap shot.
Donal Óg has no interest in promoting hurling in lower tier counties. He couldn't care less so as being called a passionate hurling man...it is what it is...a load of waffle.
As I say, he and Cantwell light the limelight. Always about them.
2 fantastic games yesterday. Munster has it all. Every game is as important as the next.
Would love to see Kerry in Munster round robin also. If Westmeath and Antrim can be in Leinster, Kerry should be in Munster.
if Kerry win the Joe McDonagh at any point
they will be in the Munster Hurling Championship
Its up to the lower tier counties to get their own houses in order instead of pointing at Donal Og or anyone else.
Duignan and Offaly being a prime example of what you can do,if you get your House in order.
Why shouldn't Kerry be in the Munster championship now?
This old make them jump through hoops to get there. A joke. Give them something to inspire to.
Case is the elite don't want Kerry in it. They don't want teams to develop. I can understand that as they want to keep it a closed shop but then you have Donal Óg trying to save hurling from the tv studio.
Offaly are progressing but they are a traditional hurling county who have won All-Irelands in the recent past. It's not as if they have no hurling tradition. They are getting their house in order but it could be a few years yet before they are at the top table.
It's all well in saying teams should help themselves but it's harder said than done. County in the lower tiers are, and will always be football counties. That's a fact. Martin Fogarty did a decent job in trying to build regional teams in various counties and starting leagues to improve underage teams.
Counties need more club teams (more players) to improve their county teams. Carlow, as an example, have few senior clubs but are doing their best but imagine with another 4 or 5 senior hurling clubs, they could be a lot more competitive.
Tyrone the same, limited senior clubs (3 really at senior level) but imagine if they had another 3 or 4 senior clubs, they could step it up another bit. They have quite a few clubs at underage, Donegal the same but it'll take a few years for them to come through at senior club level.
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
Do Kilkenny have a NFL team?
Clare, Cork and Limerick are strong in football.
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Now why would teams from Leinster/Down play in the Munster championship?
That'd just be silly now.
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
Munster is a fine championship but there's no jeopardy in it. No relegation no matter how bad you are, that is pretty difficult to change and the obvious way would be to give Kerry if they're runners up in the Joe McDonagh a crack at it.
Bottom team in Munster vrs Kerry who'd obviously go straight into Munster if they win the Joe McDonagh outright...
Come to think of it, any way you cut it, it would be a mess..
Open draw anyone?
;D
For those of an older disposition will know that once a long long time ago Galway played in the Munster championship, but felt they weren't getting a fair crack at it and left.
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
so Kerry should be taken out of the joe McDonagh and put in the Liam McCarthy competition over all the other Joe McDonagh teams
If Kerry are good enough they will win the Joe Mc at some point and enter the Munster championship
Quote from: johnnycool on May 22, 2023, 05:06:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
Munster is a fine championship but there's no jeopardy in it. No relegation no matter how bad you are, that is pretty difficult to change and the obvious way would be to give Kerry if they're runners up in the Joe McDonagh a crack at it.
Bottom team in Munster vrs Kerry who'd obviously go straight into Munster if they win the Joe McDonagh outright...
Come to think of it, any way you cut it, it would be a mess..
Open draw anyone?
;D
For those of an older disposition will know that once a long long time ago Galway played in the Munster championship, but felt they weren't getting a fair crack at it and left.
Galway lost all the games they played in the Munster Championship
That's why they left
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 06:01:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
so Kerry should be taken out of the joe McDonagh and put in the Liam McCarthy competition over all the other Joe McDonagh teams
If Kerry are good enough they will win the Joe Mc at some point and enter the Munster championship
Kerry have fewer hurling clubs than other counties at the same level. The hurling footprint would be similar to Down's. It limits how much progress they can make.
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 06:03:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 22, 2023, 05:06:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
Munster is a fine championship but there's no jeopardy in it. No relegation no matter how bad you are, that is pretty difficult to change and the obvious way would be to give Kerry if they're runners up in the Joe McDonagh a crack at it.
Bottom team in Munster vrs Kerry who'd obviously go straight into Munster if they win the Joe McDonagh outright...
Come to think of it, any way you cut it, it would be a mess..
Open draw anyone?
;D
For those of an older disposition will know that once a long long time ago Galway played in the Munster championship, but felt they weren't getting a fair crack at it and left.
Galway lost all the games they played in the Munster Championship
That's why they left
they won one, but my point still stands, perceptions are everything.
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 07:56:56 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 06:01:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
so Kerry should be taken out of the joe McDonagh and put in the Liam McCarthy competition over all the other Joe McDonagh teams
If Kerry are good enough they will win the Joe Mc at some point and enter the Munster championship
Kerry have fewer hurling clubs than other counties at the same level. The hurling footprint would be similar to Down's. It limits how much progress they can make.
How many hurling clubs are there in Down?
How many clubs are there in Kerry?
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
such absolute drivel
Firstly you didn't know that if Kerry won the Joe Mc Donagh, they would be in the Munster Championship
Then you wanted Kerry taken out of the Joe McDonagh and put in Munster regardless even thought they aren't good enough to win it at the minute and over the heads of all the other teams competing in the Joe McDonagh
Now its a grand conspiracy by the Hurling Elite to keep hurling down
Liam Griffin had a motion before congress that every Gaa club would have a hurling team up to u9/11
Everyone of your downtrodden northern counties voted against it
how about you start there with your "closed shop" bull shit
Quote from: clonadmad on May 23, 2023, 08:21:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 07:56:56 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 06:01:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
so Kerry should be taken out of the joe McDonagh and put in the Liam McCarthy competition over all the other Joe McDonagh teams
If Kerry are good enough they will win the Joe Mc at some point and enter the Munster championship
Kerry have fewer hurling clubs than other counties at the same level. The hurling footprint would be similar to Down's. It limits how much progress they can make.
How many hurling clubs are there in Down?
How many clubs are there in Kerry?
Read my previous point about more clubs are needed in these counties to move on to the next level.
Carlow I think would have 4 or 5 senior clubs also.
It's all about getting more regional based clubs at underage level (a seperate club with 3 or 4 football clubs feeding into it) and with a good group of coaches - moving likely blow ins to the area but who are mad for hurling. Building it from that. Can be done if the will is there. Needs to work on big numbers to develop properly).
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 08:41:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
such absolute drivel
Firstly you didn't know that if Kerry won the Joe Mc Donagh, they would be in the Munster Championship
Then you wanted Kerry taken out of the Joe McDonagh and put in Munster regardless even thought they aren't good enough to win it at the minute and over the heads of all the other teams competing in the Joe McDonagh
Now its a grand conspiracy by the Hurling Elite to keep hurling down
Liam Griffin had a motion before congress that every Gaa club would have a hurling team up to u9/11
Everyone of your downtrodden northern counties voted against it
how about you start there with your "closed shop" bull shit
You are probably fully aware that barring Antrim all the other northern counties are footballing dominated and the county boards reflect that in their decision making.
Liams motion was well intended but impractical and what I'd prefer that Croke park insist that there's certain days of the week/month set aside for hurling only.
Go games blitzes be organised within the county and kids who want to hurl but are from a football only play for amalgamations organised by the counties GDO's.
Kids will play anything if given the chance, but far too many CB's and clubs make kids decide on one or the other. Let's allocate slots so that this isn't the case.
Dublin used to do this, probably still do where each alternate Saturday morning is rotated between hurling and football. More counties need to adopt this approach.
Quote from: clonadmad on May 23, 2023, 08:21:33 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 07:56:56 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 06:01:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
so Kerry should be taken out of the joe McDonagh and put in the Liam McCarthy competition over all the other Joe McDonagh teams
If Kerry are good enough they will win the Joe Mc at some point and enter the Munster championship
Kerry have fewer hurling clubs than other counties at the same level. The hurling footprint would be similar to Down's. It limits how much progress they can make.
How many hurling clubs are there in Down?
How many clubs are there in Kerry?
https://www.askaboutireland.ie/aai-files/assets/libraries/wexford-county-library/reading-room/sports-recreation/sport/present-hurling-region.jpg
Quote from: johnnycool on May 23, 2023, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 08:41:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
such absolute drivel
Firstly you didn't know that if Kerry won the Joe Mc Donagh, they would be in the Munster Championship
Then you wanted Kerry taken out of the Joe McDonagh and put in Munster regardless even thought they aren't good enough to win it at the minute and over the heads of all the other teams competing in the Joe McDonagh
Now its a grand conspiracy by the Hurling Elite to keep hurling down
Liam Griffin had a motion before congress that every Gaa club would have a hurling team up to u9/11
Everyone of your downtrodden northern counties voted against it
how about you start there with your "closed shop" bull shit
You are probably fully aware that barring Antrim all the other northern counties are footballing dominated and the county boards reflect that in their decision making.
Liams motion was well intended but impractical and what I'd prefer that Croke park insist that there's certain days of the week/month set aside for hurling only.
Go games blitzes be organised within the county and kids who want to hurl but are from a football only play for amalgamations organised by the counties GDO's.
Kids will play anything if given the chance, but far too many CB's and clubs make kids decide on one or the other. Let's allocate slots so that this isn't the case.
Dublin used to do this, probably still do where each alternate Saturday morning is rotated between hurling and football. More counties need to adopt this approach.
so its now Footballs fault
and here we were being told it was the "Hurling Elite" keeping hurling down
Liam Griffins proposal was impractical and yet you are suggesting weeks or god help us Months being set aside for Hurling when there's not enough teams in those counties to play hurling in the first instance
You grow hurling from the ground up and you grow with kids of u9,introducing the game to kids of 12 and older is nearly a waste of time
if they dont have the basics by 8/9/10
you are at nothing
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 09:19:43 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 23, 2023, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 08:41:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
such absolute drivel
Firstly you didn't know that if Kerry won the Joe Mc Donagh, they would be in the Munster Championship
Then you wanted Kerry taken out of the Joe McDonagh and put in Munster regardless even thought they aren't good enough to win it at the minute and over the heads of all the other teams competing in the Joe McDonagh
Now its a grand conspiracy by the Hurling Elite to keep hurling down
Liam Griffin had a motion before congress that every Gaa club would have a hurling team up to u9/11
Everyone of your downtrodden northern counties voted against it
how about you start there with your "closed shop" bull shit
You are probably fully aware that barring Antrim all the other northern counties are footballing dominated and the county boards reflect that in their decision making.
Liams motion was well intended but impractical and what I'd prefer that Croke park insist that there's certain days of the week/month set aside for hurling only.
Go games blitzes be organised within the county and kids who want to hurl but are from a football only play for amalgamations organised by the counties GDO's.
Kids will play anything if given the chance, but far too many CB's and clubs make kids decide on one or the other. Let's allocate slots so that this isn't the case.
Dublin used to do this, probably still do where each alternate Saturday morning is rotated between hurling and football. More counties need to adopt this approach.
so its now Footballs fault
and here we were being told it was the "Hurling Elite" keeping hurling down
Liam Griffins proposal was impractical and yet you are suggesting weeks or god help us Months being set aside for Hurling when there's not enough teams in those counties to play hurling in the first instance
You grow hurling from the ground up and you grow with kids of u9,introducing the game to kids of 12 and older is nearly a waste of time
if they dont have the basics by 8/9/10
you are at nothing
Someone better tell you about a Seán Óg Ó hAilpín then ;)
Nah, I'd agree with you on that but my point is to develop hurling in football orientated counties you need a will within that county board to free up dedicated slots to hurling, a saturday morning where a go games blitz can be organised within the county but there's no point if clubs are off pushing football at the same time.
Lets not force kids to pick one over the other is all I'm looking for.
The Munster championship is fascinating because the standard is shared by the 4 teams,. Limerick have fallen back since last year.
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 12:11:33 PM
The Munster championship is fascinating because the standard is shared by the 4 teams,. Limerick have fallen back since last year.
Limerick are still odds on to win the All Ireland and unless Cork beat them Sunday
I can't see any other outcome
Them coming third in Munster might actually help them even further
Quote from: clonadmad on May 23, 2023, 01:21:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 12:11:33 PM
The Munster championship is fascinating because the standard is shared by the 4 teams,. Limerick have fallen back since last year.
Limerick are still odds on to win the All Ireland and unless Cork beat them Sunday
I can't see any other outcome
Them coming third in Munster might actually help them even further
They are now 11/8, they were about 1/2 after the league
Quote from: Saffrongael on May 23, 2023, 01:39:05 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 23, 2023, 01:21:59 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 12:11:33 PM
The Munster championship is fascinating because the standard is shared by the 4 teams,. Limerick have fallen back since last year.
Limerick are still odds on to win the All Ireland and unless Cork beat them Sunday
I can't see any other outcome
Them coming third in Munster might actually help them even further
They are now 11/8, they were about 1/2 after the league
A dramatic shift since I looked at it with Powers before the weekend
Still the out and out favourites
Tipps odds halved to second favourites at 4/1
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 08:41:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
such absolute drivel
Firstly you didn't know that if Kerry won the Joe Mc Donagh, they would be in the Munster Championship
Then you wanted Kerry taken out of the Joe McDonagh and put in Munster regardless even thought they aren't good enough to win it at the minute and over the heads of all the other teams competing in the Joe McDonagh
Now its a grand conspiracy by the Hurling Elite to keep hurling down
Liam Griffin had a motion before congress that every Gaa club would have a hurling team up to u9/11
Everyone of your downtrodden northern counties voted against it
how about you start there with your "closed shop" bull shit
Ok Donal Óg, thanks for the arrogance.
My point is Kerry should be in the Munster championship. They are the only team in Munster not playing in it. You state why they should be there over other teams - why would the Leinster teams/and or Down play in Leinster. That's just not practical.
We have Waterford who have played about 16 games and have won only 1 of them yet they'll still be there next year. Yet in Leinster a team drops out. As I said, the elite don't want to promote hurling it's a closed shop.
I thunk you made reference about KK and the football they play but you never answered have they a NFL team. You don't know anything about KK football. There's definately not 41 football clubs in KK. I'd say they'll be finishing their championships up about now to get ready for the serious business of hurling.
Again you asked for two counties that have clubs playing both - I gave you Cork and Clare.
Nice touch saying 'downtrodden' northern teams - I reckon you're a west brit who's peeved of at the success of SF in the recent election going by your previous comments. Downtrodden is a nice choice of word. Partitionist mentality is hanging out of you.
Can you gve me a breakdown of the vote of Griffin's motion?
What were the votes for and against?
Regardless, it was a silly motion as if the GAA could start to make clubs play hurling. You really believe that motion would cure hurling?
My suggestion is that regional clubs are the way to go in football counties. Slowly but surely young ones playing hurling are increasing in various counties which is great for themselves and secondly for the game.
As I say no demotion from Munster - the best competition the GAA has and you say it's not a closed shop?
You need to be more positive in promoting hurling than talking down to people - lose the anger and be more positive.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 22, 2023, 05:06:42 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
Munster is a fine championship but there's no jeopardy in it. relegation no matter how bad you are, that is pretty difficult to change and the obvious way would be to give Kerry if thNoey're runners up in the Joe McDonagh a crack at it.
Bottom team in Munster vrs Kerry who'd obviously go straight into Munster if they win the Joe McDonagh outright...
Come to think of it, any way you cut it, it would be a mess..
Open draw anyone?
;D
For those of an older disposition will know that once a long long time ago Galway played in the Munster championship, but felt they weren't getting a fair crack at it and left.
That's the positive way to look at it Johnny.
Galway hurling was in a bad way from the mid 50s until the early 70s. The Republic Of Ireland soccer team went through a similar experience during some of that time and didn't win a match for several years. Galway had an awful time in Munster. They probably wouldn't have been Joe McDonagh standard at the time.
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 09:19:43 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 23, 2023, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 08:41:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
such absolute drivel
Firstly you didn't know that if Kerry won the Joe Mc Donagh, they would be in the Munster Championship
Then you wanted Kerry taken out of the Joe McDonagh and put in Munster regardless even thought they aren't good enough to win it at the minute and over the heads of all the other teams competing in the Joe McDonagh
Now its a grand conspiracy by the Hurling Elite to keep hurling down
Liam Griffin had a motion before congress that every Gaa club would have a hurling team up to u9/11
Everyone of your downtrodden northern counties voted against it
how about you start there with your "closed shop" bull shit
You are probably fully aware that barring Antrim all the other northern counties are footballing dominated and the county boards reflect that in their decision making.
Liams motion was well intended but impractical and what I'd prefer that Croke park insist that there's certain days of the week/month set aside for hurling only.
Go games blitzes be organised within the county and kids who want to hurl but are from a football only play for amalgamations organised by the counties GDO's.
Kids will play anything if given the chance, but far too many CB's and clubs make kids decide on one or the other. Let's allocate slots so that this isn't the case.
Dublin used to do this, probably still do where each alternate Saturday morning is rotated between hurling and football. More counties need to adopt this approach.
so its now Footballs fault
and here we were being told it was the "Hurling Elite" keeping hurling down
Liam Griffins proposal was impractical and yet you are suggesting weeks or god help us Months being set aside for Hurling when there's not enough teams in those counties to play hurling in the first instance
You grow hurling from the ground up and you grow with kids of u9,introducing the game to kids of 12 and older is nearly a waste of time
if they dont have the basics by 8/9/10
you are at nothing
As I say, such a positive attitude to the young GAA lad/lassies all over Ireland.
Stay in the B team as you're rubbish at picking the ball at 9 years old.
As a matter of fact, don't come back as you're no good.
I hope you're not coaching U9's or U10's.
Great attitude.
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 03:08:22 PM
Galway hurling was in a bad way from the mid 50s until the early 70s. The Republic Of Ireland soccer team went through a similar experience during some of that time and didn't win a match for several years. Galway had an awful time in Munster. They probably wouldn't have been Joe McDonagh standard at the time.
Galway still massively under performing at senior level in relation to their juvenile success.
Quote from: NAG1 on May 23, 2023, 03:10:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 03:08:22 PM
Galway hurling was in a bad way from the mid 50s until the early 70s. The Republic Of Ireland soccer team went through a similar experience during some of that time and didn't win a match for several years. Galway had an awful time in Munster. They probably wouldn't have been Joe McDonagh standard at the time.
Galway still massively under performing at senior level in relation to their juvenile success.
So has everyone since 2017.
The context is very different for Galway compared to the 60s.
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2023, 03:09:53 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 09:19:43 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 23, 2023, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 08:41:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
such absolute drivel
Firstly you didn't know that if Kerry won the Joe Mc Donagh, they would be in the Munster Championship
Then you wanted Kerry taken out of the Joe McDonagh and put in Munster regardless even thought they aren't good enough to win it at the minute and over the heads of all the other teams competing in the Joe McDonagh
Now its a grand conspiracy by the Hurling Elite to keep hurling down
Liam Griffin had a motion before congress that every Gaa club would have a hurling team up to u9/11
Everyone of your downtrodden northern counties voted against it
how about you start there with your "closed shop" bull shit
You are probably fully aware that barring Antrim all the other northern counties are footballing dominated and the county boards reflect that in their decision making.
Liams motion was well intended but impractical and what I'd prefer that Croke park insist that there's certain days of the week/month set aside for hurling only.
Go games blitzes be organised within the county and kids who want to hurl but are from a football only play for amalgamations organised by the counties GDO's.
Kids will play anything if given the chance, but far too many CB's and clubs make kids decide on one or the other. Let's allocate slots so that this isn't the case.
Dublin used to do this, probably still do where each alternate Saturday morning is rotated between hurling and football. More counties need to adopt this approach.
so its now Footballs fault
and here we were being told it was the "Hurling Elite" keeping hurling down
Liam Griffins proposal was impractical and yet you are suggesting weeks or god help us Months being set aside for Hurling when there's not enough teams in those counties to play hurling in the first instance
You grow hurling from the ground up and you grow with kids of u9,introducing the game to kids of 12 and older is nearly a waste of time
if they dont have the basics by 8/9/10
you are at nothing
As I say, such a positive attitude to the young GAA lad/lassies all over Ireland.
Stay in the B team as you're rubbish at picking the ball at 9 years old.
As a matter of fact, don't come back as you're no good.
I hope you're not coaching U9's or U10's.
Great attitude.
And you are an awful eejit to even type all that
Ger Loughnane who would know a thing more about Hurling than you has often stated that you need to have the basics by the time you are 6 or 7
That the difference between the strong hurling counties and the weak
In the Strong the Hurley is an extension of a young lads arm
in the weak its a 2 hours a week training session at best
You can still play it and enjoy it & dare I say thrive at it. You might not be Joe Canning but there aren't too many of those about
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 03:30:05 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 23, 2023, 03:10:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 03:08:22 PM
Galway hurling was in a bad way from the mid 50s until the early 70s. The Republic Of Ireland soccer team went through a similar experience during some of that time and didn't win a match for several years. Galway had an awful time in Munster. They probably wouldn't have been Joe McDonagh standard at the time.
Galway still massively under performing at senior level in relation to their juvenile success.
So has everyone since 2017.
The context is very different for Galway compared to the 60s.
Since Galway won the Senior All Ireland in 1988
They have been in a total of 37 Minor and u20/21 All Ireland finals
Winning 13 Minor All Irelands and 9 u20/21 All Ireland Titles
They have managed from that to win 1 Senior all Ireland
So Yeah by any metric they have underperformed
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 04:11:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 03:30:05 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 23, 2023, 03:10:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 03:08:22 PM
Galway hurling was in a bad way from the mid 50s until the early 70s. The Republic Of Ireland soccer team went through a similar experience during some of that time and didn't win a match for several years. Galway had an awful time in Munster. They probably wouldn't have been Joe McDonagh standard at the time.
Galway still massively under performing at senior level in relation to their juvenile success.
So has everyone since 2017.
The context is very different for Galway compared to the 60s.
Since Galway won the Senior All Ireland in 1988
They have been in a total of 37 Minor and u20/21 All Ireland finals
Winning 13 Minor All Irelands and 9 u20/21 All Ireland Titles
They have managed from that to win 1 Senior all Ireland
So Yeah by any metric they have underperformed
Obviously. Next thing you'll declare that Mayo's all Ireland productivity is suboptimal.
The question is what happens from here, especially if Limerick are operating at a lower level compared to recent years.
There should be a few all Irelands available. Tipp could win one in every 2. What is the problem with doing back to back ?
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 03:43:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2023, 03:09:53 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 09:19:43 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 23, 2023, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 08:41:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
such absolute drivel
Firstly you didn't know that if Kerry won the Joe Mc Donagh, they would be in the Munster Championship
Then you wanted Kerry taken out of the Joe McDonagh and put in Munster regardless even thought they aren't good enough to win it at the minute and over the heads of all the other teams competing in the Joe McDonagh
Now its a grand conspiracy by the Hurling Elite to keep hurling down
Liam Griffin had a motion before congress that every Gaa club would have a hurling team up to u9/11
Everyone of your downtrodden northern counties voted against it
how about you start there with your "closed shop" bull shit
You are probably fully aware that barring Antrim all the other northern counties are footballing dominated and the county boards reflect that in their decision making.
Liams motion was well intended but impractical and what I'd prefer that Croke park insist that there's certain days of the week/month set aside for hurling only.
Go games blitzes be organised within the county and kids who want to hurl but are from a football only play for amalgamations organised by the counties GDO's.
Kids will play anything if given the chance, but far too many CB's and clubs make kids decide on one or the other. Let's allocate slots so that this isn't the case.
Dublin used to do this, probably still do where each alternate Saturday morning is rotated between hurling and football. More counties need to adopt this approach.
so its now Footballs fault
and here we were being told it was the "Hurling Elite" keeping hurling down
Liam Griffins proposal was impractical and yet you are suggesting weeks or god help us Months being set aside for Hurling when there's not enough teams in those counties to play hurling in the first instance
You grow hurling from the ground up and you grow with kids of u9,introducing the game to kids of 12 and older is nearly a waste of time
if they dont have the basics by 8/9/10
you are at nothing
As I say, such a positive attitude to the young GAA lad/lassies all over Ireland.
Stay in the B team as you're rubbish at picking the ball at 9 years old.
As a matter of fact, don't come back as you're no good.
I hope you're not coaching U9's or U10's.
Great attitude.
And you are an awful eejit to even type all that
Ger Loughnane who would know a thing more about Hurling than you has often stated that you need to have the basics by the time you are 6 or 7
That the difference between the strong hurling counties and the weak
In the Strong the Hurley is an extension of a young lads arm
in the weak its a 2 hours a week training session at best
Holy Cow - quoting Loughnane in 2023!
Now you're saying if you don't have the basics by 6 or 7...instead of 9 or 10.
Whatever you say Coach.
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2023, 05:40:05 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 03:43:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2023, 03:09:53 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 09:19:43 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 23, 2023, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 08:41:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
such absolute drivel
Firstly you didn't know that if Kerry won the Joe Mc Donagh, they would be in the Munster Championship
Then you wanted Kerry taken out of the Joe McDonagh and put in Munster regardless even thought they aren't good enough to win it at the minute and over the heads of all the other teams competing in the Joe McDonagh
Now its a grand conspiracy by the Hurling Elite to keep hurling down
Liam Griffin had a motion before congress that every Gaa club would have a hurling team up to u9/11
Everyone of your downtrodden northern counties voted against it
how about you start there with your "closed shop" bull shit
You are probably fully aware that barring Antrim all the other northern counties are footballing dominated and the county boards reflect that in their decision making.
Liams motion was well intended but impractical and what I'd prefer that Croke park insist that there's certain days of the week/month set aside for hurling only.
Go games blitzes be organised within the county and kids who want to hurl but are from a football only play for amalgamations organised by the counties GDO's.
Kids will play anything if given the chance, but far too many CB's and clubs make kids decide on one or the other. Let's allocate slots so that this isn't the case.
Dublin used to do this, probably still do where each alternate Saturday morning is rotated between hurling and football. More counties need to adopt this approach.
so its now Footballs fault
and here we were being told it was the "Hurling Elite" keeping hurling down
Liam Griffins proposal was impractical and yet you are suggesting weeks or god help us Months being set aside for Hurling when there's not enough teams in those counties to play hurling in the first instance
You grow hurling from the ground up and you grow with kids of u9,introducing the game to kids of 12 and older is nearly a waste of time
if they dont have the basics by 8/9/10
you are at nothing
As I say, such a positive attitude to the young GAA lad/lassies all over Ireland.
Stay in the B team as you're rubbish at picking the ball at 9 years old.
As a matter of fact, don't come back as you're no good.
I hope you're not coaching U9's or U10's.
Great attitude.
And you are an awful eejit to even type all that
Ger Loughnane who would know a thing more about Hurling than you has often stated that you need to have the basics by the time you are 6 or 7
That the difference between the strong hurling counties and the weak
In the Strong the Hurley is an extension of a young lads arm
in the weak its a 2 hours a week training session at best
Holy Cow - quoting Loughnane in 2023!
Now you're saying if you don't have the basics by 6 or 7...instead of 9 or 10.
Whatever you say Coach.
This just shows you up for how little you actually know when it comes to Hurling
Anyone that knows anything about Hurling would know the quicker you get a hurley into a young lads hand and then the more often they practice, the more proficient they will get
that holds true in 2023 the same as it did in 2003 or 1993
As for looking down your nose at Ger Loughnane
You and your county would be delighted with yourselves if you achieved a tenth of what he achieved
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 04:39:24 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 04:11:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 03:30:05 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 23, 2023, 03:10:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 03:08:22 PM
Galway hurling was in a bad way from the mid 50s until the early 70s. The Republic Of Ireland soccer team went through a similar experience during some of that time and didn't win a match for several years. Galway had an awful time in Munster. They probably wouldn't have been Joe McDonagh standard at the time.
Galway still massively under performing at senior level in relation to their juvenile success.
So has everyone since 2017.
The context is very different for Galway compared to the 60s.
Since Galway won the Senior All Ireland in 1988
They have been in a total of 37 Minor and u20/21 All Ireland finals
Winning 13 Minor All Irelands and 9 u20/21 All Ireland Titles
They have managed from that to win 1 Senior all Ireland
So Yeah by any metric they have underperformed
Obviously. Next thing you'll declare that Mayo's all Ireland productivity is suboptimal.
The question is what happens from here, especially if Limerick are operating at a lower level compared to recent years.
There should be a few all Irelands available. Tipp could win one in every 2. What is the problem with doing back to back ?
looks like I touched a nerve
Heres the reality for ye Galway Boys
Ye cant turn minor and u20/21 All Ireland winning Hurlers into Senior All Ireland Winning Hurlers
Until Ye figure that one out,Ye will be continue winning 1 in a rows every 30 Years.
Apparently Wexford have an injury problem rather than an Offaly-type problem.
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 24, 2023, 09:29:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 04:39:24 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 04:11:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 03:30:05 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 23, 2023, 03:10:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 03:08:22 PM
Galway hurling was in a bad way from the mid 50s until the early 70s. The Republic Of Ireland soccer team went through a similar experience during some of that time and didn't win a match for several years. Galway had an awful time in Munster. They probably wouldn't have been Joe McDonagh standard at the time.
Galway still massively under performing at senior level in relation to their juvenile success.
So has everyone since 2017.
The context is very different for Galway compared to the 60s.
Since Galway won the Senior All Ireland in 1988
They have been in a total of 37 Minor and u20/21 All Ireland finals
Winning 13 Minor All Irelands and 9 u20/21 All Ireland Titles
They have managed from that to win 1 Senior all Ireland
So Yeah by any metric they have underperformed
Obviously. Next thing you'll declare that Mayo's all Ireland productivity is suboptimal.
The question is what happens from here, especially if Limerick are operating at a lower level compared to recent years.
There should be a few all Irelands available. Tipp could win one in every 2. What is the problem with doing back to back ?
looks like I touched a nerve
Heres the reality for ye Galway Boys
Ye cant turn minor and u20/21 All Ireland winning Hurlers into Senior All Ireland Winning Hurlers
Until Ye figure that one out,Ye will be continue winning 1 in a rows every 30 Years.
I doubt it. You have to understand why there was such a delay.
You could start here
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/vincent-hogan-have-galway-become-a-soft-touch/26743621.html
There was no continuity after 1990. What you need is a culture of winners with quality younger players feeding into the team over time.
Galway have that now. Compare that to say 2007. Galway were so far off the pace. I think the future is bright. We have to beat Cork in an all Ireland final.
Leinster looks to have fallen into Europa Conference territory rather than Europa League.
Kilkenny & Galway stroll and Wexford look set for relegation.
What can be done to make it a more balanced Championship plus all reviews and previews.
Click link to listen via
Website
https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/epsode/munster-hurling-has-no-equal (https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/epsode/munster-hurling-has-no-equal)
Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6yYruwCtRp2YBmQp1wAvcV (https://open.spotify.com/episode/6yYruwCtRp2YBmQp1wAvcV)
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 24, 2023, 09:29:27 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 04:39:24 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 04:11:28 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 03:30:05 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on May 23, 2023, 03:10:36 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 23, 2023, 03:08:22 PM
Galway hurling was in a bad way from the mid 50s until the early 70s. The Republic Of Ireland soccer team went through a similar experience during some of that time and didn't win a match for several years. Galway had an awful time in Munster. They probably wouldn't have been Joe McDonagh standard at the time.
Galway still massively under performing at senior level in relation to their juvenile success.
So has everyone since 2017.
The context is very different for Galway compared to the 60s.
Since Galway won the Senior All Ireland in 1988
They have been in a total of 37 Minor and u20/21 All Ireland finals
Winning 13 Minor All Irelands and 9 u20/21 All Ireland Titles
They have managed from that to win 1 Senior all Ireland
So Yeah by any metric they have underperformed
Obviously. Next thing you'll declare that Mayo's all Ireland productivity is suboptimal.
The question is what happens from here, especially if Limerick are operating at a lower level compared to recent years.
There should be a few all Irelands available. Tipp could win one in every 2. What is the problem with doing back to back ?
looks like I touched a nerve
Heres the reality for ye Galway Boys
Ye cant turn minor and u20/21 All Ireland winning Hurlers into Senior All Ireland Winning Hurlers
Until Ye figure that one out,Ye will be continue winning 1 in a rows every 30 Years.
Looks like you set out to also. It's always one from Tipp that does.
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 24, 2023, 01:03:10 PM
Leinster looks to have fallen into Europa Conference territory rather than Europa League.
Kilkenny & Galway stroll and Wexford look set for relegation.
What can be done to make it a more balanced Championship plus all reviews and previews.
Click link to listen via
Website
https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/epsode/munster-hurling-has-no-equal (https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/epsode/munster-hurling-has-no-equal)
Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6yYruwCtRp2YBmQp1wAvcV (https://open.spotify.com/episode/6yYruwCtRp2YBmQp1wAvcV)
Interesting but this is because Limerick slipped back into the pack. It's a fantastic summer of hurling with each week better than the previous one but it may not happen again for 5 years.
Wexford have an injury crisis which is not permanent either. Wexford have a decent underage record.
Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2023, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 24, 2023, 01:03:10 PM
Leinster looks to have fallen into Europa Conference territory rather than Europa League.
Kilkenny & Galway stroll and Wexford look set for relegation.
What can be done to make it a more balanced Championship plus all reviews and previews.
Click link to listen via
Website
https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/epsode/munster-hurling-has-no-equal (https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/epsode/munster-hurling-has-no-equal)
Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6yYruwCtRp2YBmQp1wAvcV (https://open.spotify.com/episode/6yYruwCtRp2YBmQp1wAvcV)
Interesting but this is because Limerick slipped back into the pack. It's a fantastic summer of hurling with each week better than the previous one but it may not happen again for 5 years.
Wexford have an injury crisis which is not permanent either. Wexford have a decent underage record.
Another podcast touched on Wexford persisting with lads who're obviously not fully fit which begs the question is there no confidence from Management on some of the panelists and did they blood enough younger players during the league. Irrespective they really should be seeing off Westmeath at their leisure and deal with high balls better than they did.
Also, Lets call it for what it is, a much improved Tipp (from last year) drew with a playing poorly Limerick, Limerick sort out their malaise, which isn't a given and we'll know more this weekend and they're still favourites to win the AI. Limerick shot selections poor on the day again with a very poor return.
Kiely certainly called out a few stars who failed to perform on Sunday after getting taken off, so it'll be interesting if they respond in kind. I think he also needs to introduce some fresh blood, something Cody did every once in a while managed to do to keep them on top.
As for the Leinster v Munster champions league/conference comment, I wouldn't be betting too much on Clare or Tipp beating either Galway or Kilkenny later on this summer. Don't confuse a closeness in the games with quality as we saw when KK overturned Clare with ease last summer.
Both Leinster teams have the ability/opportunity to peak later on in the year, the Munster counties have been hammering seven bells out of each other the last few weeks.
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 24, 2023, 09:26:01 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2023, 05:40:05 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 03:43:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2023, 03:09:53 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 09:19:43 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 23, 2023, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 08:41:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
such absolute drivel
Firstly you didn't know that if Kerry won the Joe Mc Donagh, they would be in the Munster Championship
Then you wanted Kerry taken out of the Joe McDonagh and put in Munster regardless even thought they aren't good enough to win it at the minute and over the heads of all the other teams competing in the Joe McDonagh
Now its a grand conspiracy by the Hurling Elite to keep hurling down
Liam Griffin had a motion before congress that every Gaa club would have a hurling team up to u9/11
Everyone of your downtrodden northern counties voted against it
how about you start there with your "closed shop" bull shit
You are probably fully aware that barring Antrim all the other northern counties are footballing dominated and the county boards reflect that in their decision making.
Liams motion was well intended but impractical and what I'd prefer that Croke park insist that there's certain days of the week/month set aside for hurling only.
Go games blitzes be organised within the county and kids who want to hurl but are from a football only play for amalgamations organised by the counties GDO's.
Kids will play anything if given the chance, but far too many CB's and clubs make kids decide on one or the other. Let's allocate slots so that this isn't the case.
Dublin used to do this, probably still do where each alternate Saturday morning is rotated between hurling and football. More counties need to adopt this approach.
so its now Footballs fault
and here we were being told it was the "Hurling Elite" keeping hurling down
Liam Griffins proposal was impractical and yet you are suggesting weeks or god help us Months being set aside for Hurling when there's not enough teams in those counties to play hurling in the first instance
You grow hurling from the ground up and you grow with kids of u9,introducing the game to kids of 12 and older is nearly a waste of time
if they dont have the basics by 8/9/10
you are at nothing
As I say, such a positive attitude to the young GAA lad/lassies all over Ireland.
Stay in the B team as you're rubbish at picking the ball at 9 years old.
As a matter of fact, don't come back as you're no good.
I hope you're not coaching U9's or U10's.
Great attitude.
And you are an awful eejit to even type all that
Ger Loughnane who would know a thing more about Hurling than you has often stated that you need to have the basics by the time you are 6 or 7
That the difference between the strong hurling counties and the weak
In the Strong the Hurley is an extension of a young lads arm
in the weak its a 2 hours a week training session at best
Holy Cow - quoting Loughnane in 2023!
Now you're saying if you don't have the basics by 6 or 7...instead of 9 or 10.
Whatever you say Coach.
This just shows you up for how little you actually know when it comes to Hurling
Anyone that knows anything about Hurling would know the quicker you get a hurley into a young lads hand and then the more often they practice, the more proficient they will get
that holds true in 2023 the same as it did in 2003 or 1993
As for looking down your nose at Ger Loughnane
You and your county would be delighted with yourselves if you achieved a tenth of what he achieved
Says the coach who discards any kid who can't pick the ball up by 6 or 7.
Wise up.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 24, 2023, 02:27:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2023, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 24, 2023, 01:03:10 PM
Leinster looks to have fallen into Europa Conference territory rather than Europa League.
Kilkenny & Galway stroll and Wexford look set for relegation.
What can be done to make it a more balanced Championship plus all reviews and previews.
Click link to listen via
Website
https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/epsode/munster-hurling-has-no-equal (https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/epsode/munster-hurling-has-no-equal)
Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6yYruwCtRp2YBmQp1wAvcV (https://open.spotify.com/episode/6yYruwCtRp2YBmQp1wAvcV)
Interesting but this is because Limerick slipped back into the pack. It's a fantastic summer of hurling with each week better than the previous one but it may not happen again for 5 years.
Wexford have an injury crisis which is not permanent either. Wexford have a decent underage record.
Another podcast touched on Wexford persisting with lads who're obviously not fully fit which begs the question is there no confidence from Management on some of the panelists and did they blood enough younger players during the league. Irrespective they really should be seeing off Westmeath at their leisure and deal with high balls better than they did.
Also, Lets call it for what it is, a much improved Tipp (from last year) drew with a playing poorly Limerick, Limerick sort out their malaise, which isn't a given and we'll know more this weekend and they're still favourites to win the AI. Limerick shot selections poor on the day again with a very poor return.
Kiely certainly called out a few stars who failed to perform on Sunday after getting taken off, so it'll be interesting if they respond in kind. I think he also needs to introduce some fresh blood, something Cody did every once in a while managed to do to keep them on top.
As for the Leinster v Munster champions league/conference comment, I wouldn't be betting too much on Clare or Tipp beating either Galway or Kilkenny later on this summer. Don't confuse a closeness in the games with quality as we saw when KK overturned Clare with ease last summer.
Both Leinster teams have the ability/opportunity to peak later on in the year, the Munster counties have been hammering seven bells out of each other the last few weeks.
Yeah, real action only starts in Croke Park.
Leinster teams are waiting in the long grass!
As an aside, a point almost missed at the week-end was T.J. becoming top scorer in the championship on Saturday. Some achievement. It was mentioned on GAA Go and then Pat Horgan overtook him on Sunday. Another fine achievement.
Who goes the furtherest in this years championship could define the top scorer ever in the hurling championship. What an accolade that is to have. GAA should be making more of these lads rivalry as it's unprecedented.
Imagine T.J., Pat, Joe and Seamie all making their debuts inside a week of each other and are still going strong years later and the scores they're racked up. 4 of the finest. As I say a great achievement.
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 04:09:03 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 24, 2023, 09:26:01 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2023, 05:40:05 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 03:43:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2023, 03:09:53 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 09:19:43 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 23, 2023, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 08:41:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
such absolute drivel
Firstly you didn't know that if Kerry won the Joe Mc Donagh, they would be in the Munster Championship
Then you wanted Kerry taken out of the Joe McDonagh and put in Munster regardless even thought they aren't good enough to win it at the minute and over the heads of all the other teams competing in the Joe McDonagh
Now its a grand conspiracy by the Hurling Elite to keep hurling down
Liam Griffin had a motion before congress that every Gaa club would have a hurling team up to u9/11
Everyone of your downtrodden northern counties voted against it
how about you start there with your "closed shop" bull shit
You are probably fully aware that barring Antrim all the other northern counties are footballing dominated and the county boards reflect that in their decision making.
Liams motion was well intended but impractical and what I'd prefer that Croke park insist that there's certain days of the week/month set aside for hurling only.
Go games blitzes be organised within the county and kids who want to hurl but are from a football only play for amalgamations organised by the counties GDO's.
Kids will play anything if given the chance, but far too many CB's and clubs make kids decide on one or the other. Let's allocate slots so that this isn't the case.
Dublin used to do this, probably still do where each alternate Saturday morning is rotated between hurling and football. More counties need to adopt this approach.
so its now Footballs fault
and here we were being told it was the "Hurling Elite" keeping hurling down
Liam Griffins proposal was impractical and yet you are suggesting weeks or god help us Months being set aside for Hurling when there's not enough teams in those counties to play hurling in the first instance
You grow hurling from the ground up and you grow with kids of u9,introducing the game to kids of 12 and older is nearly a waste of time
if they dont have the basics by 8/9/10
you are at nothing
As I say, such a positive attitude to the young GAA lad/lassies all over Ireland.
Stay in the B team as you're rubbish at picking the ball at 9 years old.
As a matter of fact, don't come back as you're no good.
I hope you're not coaching U9's or U10's.
Great attitude.
And you are an awful eejit to even type all that
Ger Loughnane who would know a thing more about Hurling than you has often stated that you need to have the basics by the time you are 6 or 7
That the difference between the strong hurling counties and the weak
In the Strong the Hurley is an extension of a young lads arm
in the weak its a 2 hours a week training session at best
Holy Cow - quoting Loughnane in 2023!
Now you're saying if you don't have the basics by 6 or 7...instead of 9 or 10.
Whatever you say Coach.
This just shows you up for how little you actually know when it comes to Hurling
Anyone that knows anything about Hurling would know the quicker you get a hurley into a young lads hand and then the more often they practice, the more proficient they will get
that holds true in 2023 the same as it did in 2003 or 1993
As for looking down your nose at Ger Loughnane
You and your county would be delighted with yourselves if you achieved a tenth of what he achieved
Says the coach who discards any kid who can't pick the ball up by 6 or 7.
Wise up.
Christ your some fool
Point out exactly where i said that
You clearly dont have a clue about Hurling but are arrogant enough to display your ignorance on here
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 04:18:20 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 24, 2023, 02:27:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2023, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 24, 2023, 01:03:10 PM
Leinster looks to have fallen into Europa Conference territory rather than Europa League.
Kilkenny & Galway stroll and Wexford look set for relegation.
What can be done to make it a more balanced Championship plus all reviews and previews.
Click link to listen via
Website
https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/epsode/munster-hurling-has-no-equal (https://thepremierviewpodcast.com/epsode/munster-hurling-has-no-equal)
Spotify
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6yYruwCtRp2YBmQp1wAvcV (https://open.spotify.com/episode/6yYruwCtRp2YBmQp1wAvcV)
Interesting but this is because Limerick slipped back into the pack. It's a fantastic summer of hurling with each week better than the previous one but it may not happen again for 5 years.
Wexford have an injury crisis which is not permanent either. Wexford have a decent underage record.
Another podcast touched on Wexford persisting with lads who're obviously not fully fit which begs the question is there no confidence from Management on some of the panelists and did they blood enough younger players during the league. Irrespective they really should be seeing off Westmeath at their leisure and deal with high balls better than they did.
Also, Lets call it for what it is, a much improved Tipp (from last year) drew with a playing poorly Limerick, Limerick sort out their malaise, which isn't a given and we'll know more this weekend and they're still favourites to win the AI. Limerick shot selections poor on the day again with a very poor return.
Kiely certainly called out a few stars who failed to perform on Sunday after getting taken off, so it'll be interesting if they respond in kind. I think he also needs to introduce some fresh blood, something Cody did every once in a while managed to do to keep them on top.
As for the Leinster v Munster champions league/conference comment, I wouldn't be betting too much on Clare or Tipp beating either Galway or Kilkenny later on this summer. Don't confuse a closeness in the games with quality as we saw when KK overturned Clare with ease last summer.
Both Leinster teams have the ability/opportunity to peak later on in the year, the Munster counties have been hammering seven bells out of each other the last few weeks.
Yeah, real action only starts in Croke Park.
Leinster teams are waiting in the long grass!
As an aside, a point almost missed at the week-end was T.J. becoming top scorer in the championship on Saturday. Some achievement. It was mentioned on GAA Go and then Pat Horgan overtook him on Sunday. Another fine achievement.
Who goes the furtherest in this years championship could define the top scorer ever in the hurling championship. What an accolade that is to have. GAA should be making more of these lads rivalry as it's unprecedented.
Imagine T.J., Pat, Joe and Seamie all making their debuts inside a week of each other and are still going strong years later and the scores they're racked up. 4 of the finest. As I say a great achievement.
Kilkenny havent won an All Ireland since 2015
Wexford since 1996
Dublin since 1938
I guess We best include Galway since they won it in 2017
Munster teams have won 7 out of the last 10 All Irelands
It is very unusual for someone from Tipperary to hide behind Limerick's stats. Tipperary hurling people used to be proudly independent.
The podcast is quite interesting even if it is partisan.
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 24, 2023, 05:25:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 04:09:03 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 24, 2023, 09:26:01 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2023, 05:40:05 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 03:43:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2023, 03:09:53 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 09:19:43 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 23, 2023, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 08:41:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
such absolute drivel
Firstly you didn't know that if Kerry won the Joe Mc Donagh, they would be in the Munster Championship
Then you wanted Kerry taken out of the Joe McDonagh and put in Munster regardless even thought they aren't good enough to win it at the minute and over the heads of all the other teams competing in the Joe McDonagh
Now its a grand conspiracy by the Hurling Elite to keep hurling down
Liam Griffin had a motion before congress that every Gaa club would have a hurling team up to u9/11
Everyone of your downtrodden northern counties voted against it
how about you start there with your "closed shop" bull shit
You are probably fully aware that barring Antrim all the other northern counties are footballing dominated and the county boards reflect that in their decision making.
Liams motion was well intended but impractical and what I'd prefer that Croke park insist that there's certain days of the week/month set aside for hurling only.
Go games blitzes be organised within the county and kids who want to hurl but are from a football only play for amalgamations organised by the counties GDO's.
Kids will play anything if given the chance, but far too many CB's and clubs make kids decide on one or the other. Let's allocate slots so that this isn't the case.
Dublin used to do this, probably still do where each alternate Saturday morning is rotated between hurling and football. More counties need to adopt this approach.
so its now Footballs fault
and here we were being told it was the "Hurling Elite" keeping hurling down
Liam Griffins proposal was impractical and yet you are suggesting weeks or god help us Months being set aside for Hurling when there's not enough teams in those counties to play hurling in the first instance
You grow hurling from the ground up and you grow with kids of u9,introducing the game to kids of 12 and older is nearly a waste of time
if they dont have the basics by 8/9/10
you are at nothing
As I say, such a positive attitude to the young GAA lad/lassies all over Ireland.
Stay in the B team as you're rubbish at picking the ball at 9 years old.
As a matter of fact, don't come back as you're no good.
I hope you're not coaching U9's or U10's.
Great attitude.
And you are an awful eejit to even type all that
Ger Loughnane who would know a thing more about Hurling than you has often stated that you need to have the basics by the time you are 6 or 7
That the difference between the strong hurling counties and the weak
In the Strong the Hurley is an extension of a young lads arm
in the weak its a 2 hours a week training session at best
Holy Cow - quoting Loughnane in 2023!
Now you're saying if you don't have the basics by 6 or 7...instead of 9 or 10.
Whatever you say Coach.
This just shows you up for how little you actually know when it comes to Hurling
Anyone that knows anything about Hurling would know the quicker you get a hurley into a young lads hand and then the more often they practice, the more proficient they will get
that holds true in 2023 the same as it did in 2003 or 1993
As for looking down your nose at Ger Loughnane
You and your county would be delighted with yourselves if you achieved a tenth of what he achieved
Says the coach who discards any kid who can't pick the ball up by 6 or 7.
Wise up.
Christ your some fool
Point out exactly where i said that
You clearly dont have a clue about Hurling but are arrogant enough to display your ignorance on here
This is your quote:
You grow hurling from the ground up and you grow with kids of u9,introducing the game to kids of 12 and older is nearly a waste of time
if they dont have the basics by 8/9/10
you are at nothing
You are at nothing - such a statement. Then you bring Loughnane into it using a younger age group. FFS. A few posters pulled you up on it.
Good debate on another thread about the merits of Go Games and competitive blitzes etc. You should read it - differing opinions on how to develop young players.
You might learn a thing or two.
It may not be worth winning Leinster this year because the winners will probably get Limerick in the semi final.
Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2023, 08:22:34 PM
It may not be worth winning Leinster this year because the winners will probably get Limerick in the semi final.
On current form (if they get over Cork) then I'd say both Galway and KK wouldn't mind that. Kinnerk and Kiely have a bit of work to do this week.
If Cork get over Limerick their confidence will be coming out their ears and they'll have an AI in the bag according to their supporters, sure Leinster is shíte.
;)
Camera panned around to the sideline and you could see the blind panic in Kinnerks face in the closing minutes of that Tipp game. It'll only take one of those 'underperforming' limerick stars to have a good game to pull them through, saying that Cork have surprised me this year so far so will be a cracking game.
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 25, 2023, 09:24:26 AM
Camera panned around to the sideline and you could see the blind panic in Kinnerks face in the closing minutes of that Tipp game. It'll only take one of those 'underperforming' limerick stars to have a good game to pull them through, saying that Cork have surprised me this year so far so will be a cracking game.
Not sure Cork have done anything great yet.
Clare had 5 or 6 points on them 20 minutes into the second half and proceeded to hit 3 or 4 really bad wides, inexplicable wides, Kelly was missing frees as well, but I suppose they showed a bit of resilience which is new to them, but Clare should have had 8 to 9 points on them by the finish line.
Maybe Clare got a bit of whiteline fever, who knows.
Anyone else think Horgan is done? He's lost that bit of pace and is even more reliant than ever on really good ball in, or taking the ball from the runners carrying it in.
He never could win his own ball.
Quote from: Jeepers Creepers on May 25, 2023, 09:24:26 AM
Camera panned around to the sideline and you could see the blind panic in Kinnerks face in the closing minutes of that Tipp game. It'll only take one of those 'underperforming' limerick stars to have a good game to pull them through, saying that Cork have surprised me this year so far so will be a cracking game.
Wonder why if true though? Limerick weren't out even if they lost, they would still have to beat Cork regardless. Which I think they will do. Cork can't seem to settle on a properly-firing forward division and have played only in fits and starts v Tipp and Clare to date. Just don't think they have it in them to get a result on Sunday.
Cork need to build around Ben Cunningham when he progresses. Proven free taker for St Finbarr's and Cork U20's, and a big strapping lad. Their biggest problem the last few years has been forwards not winning their own ball, and not working hard enough. Get this lad in and build around him with the pace of Robbie O'Flynn and Shane Kingston. I expect Limerick to win comfortably enough this weekend, but there has been some decent signs this year for Cork going forward.
Quote from: ClubScene13 on May 25, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
Cork need to build around Ben Cunningham when he progresses. Proven free taker for St Finbarr's and Cork U20's, and a big strapping lad. Their biggest problem the last few years has been forwards not winning their own ball, and not working hard enough. Get this lad in and build around him with the pace of Robbie O'Flynn and Shane Kingston. I expect Limerick to win comfortably enough this weekend, but there has been some decent signs this year for Cork going forward.
Still have a major hole to fill in the No3 jersey. I know they've pencilled in Eoin Downey for that, rangey like the brother and may come good over time but not this year for me.
Quote from: ClubScene13 on May 25, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
Cork need to build around Ben Cunningham when he progresses. Proven free taker for St Finbarr's and Cork U20's, and a big strapping lad. Their biggest problem the last few years has been forwards not winning their own ball, and not working hard enough. Get this lad in and build around him with the pace of Robbie O'Flynn and Shane Kingston. I expect Limerick to win comfortably enough this weekend, but there has been some decent signs this year for Cork going forward.
I think Declan Dalton has progressed well this year. More involved in open play. Could be the next leader in Cork's attack.
Quote from: ClubScene13 on May 25, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
Cork need to build around Ben Cunningham when he progresses. Proven free taker for St Finbarr's and Cork U20's, and a big strapping lad. Their biggest problem the last few years has been forwards not winning their own ball, and not working hard enough. Get this lad in and build around him with the pace of Robbie O'Flynn and Shane Kingston. I expect Limerick to win comfortably enough this weekend, but there has been some decent signs this year for Cork going forward.
Is he not being lost to Munster rugby? Maybe someone else I'm thinking of....
Quote from: mouview on May 25, 2023, 12:41:09 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on May 25, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
Cork need to build around Ben Cunningham when he progresses. Proven free taker for St Finbarr's and Cork U20's, and a big strapping lad. Their biggest problem the last few years has been forwards not winning their own ball, and not working hard enough. Get this lad in and build around him with the pace of Robbie O'Flynn and Shane Kingston. I expect Limerick to win comfortably enough this weekend, but there has been some decent signs this year for Cork going forward.
Is he not being lost to Munster rugby? Maybe someone else I'm thinking of....
No that is Ben O'Connor
Quote from: johnnycool on May 25, 2023, 11:49:25 AM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on May 25, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
Cork need to build around Ben Cunningham when he progresses. Proven free taker for St Finbarr's and Cork U20's, and a big strapping lad. Their biggest problem the last few years has been forwards not winning their own ball, and not working hard enough. Get this lad in and build around him with the pace of Robbie O'Flynn and Shane Kingston. I expect Limerick to win comfortably enough this weekend, but there has been some decent signs this year for Cork going forward.
Still have a major hole to fill in the No3 jersey. I know they've pencilled in Eoin Downey for that, rangey like the brother and may come good over time but not this year for me.
I agree with you, looking at the physique of Eoin Downey I always found it very optimistic to pencil him in. Young lad yet so time on his side. Ben O'Connor to Munster rugby a disaster for them but what do you do.
Quote from: ClubScene13 on May 25, 2023, 01:14:01 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 25, 2023, 11:49:25 AM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on May 25, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
Cork need to build around Ben Cunningham when he progresses. Proven free taker for St Finbarr's and Cork U20's, and a big strapping lad. Their biggest problem the last few years has been forwards not winning their own ball, and not working hard enough. Get this lad in and build around him with the pace of Robbie O'Flynn and Shane Kingston. I expect Limerick to win comfortably enough this weekend, but there has been some decent signs this year for Cork going forward.
Still have a major hole to fill in the No3 jersey. I know they've pencilled in Eoin Downey for that, rangey like the brother and may come good over time but not this year for me.
I agree with you, looking at the physique of Eoin Downey I always found it very optimistic to pencil him in. Young lad yet so time on his side. Ben O'Connor to Munster rugby a disaster for them but what do you do.
Maybe do an Alan Tynan and come back in in a year or two.
Quote from: marty34 on May 25, 2023, 01:51:40 PM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on May 25, 2023, 01:14:01 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 25, 2023, 11:49:25 AM
Quote from: ClubScene13 on May 25, 2023, 10:31:38 AM
Cork need to build around Ben Cunningham when he progresses. Proven free taker for St Finbarr's and Cork U20's, and a big strapping lad. Their biggest problem the last few years has been forwards not winning their own ball, and not working hard enough. Get this lad in and build around him with the pace of Robbie O'Flynn and Shane Kingston. I expect Limerick to win comfortably enough this weekend, but there has been some decent signs this year for Cork going forward.
Still have a major hole to fill in the No3 jersey. I know they've pencilled in Eoin Downey for that, rangey like the brother and may come good over time but not this year for me.
I agree with you, looking at the physique of Eoin Downey I always found it very optimistic to pencil him in. Young lad yet so time on his side. Ben O'Connor to Munster rugby a disaster for them but what do you do.
Maybe do an Alan Tynan and come back in in a year or two.
Darren Sweetnam was looking good at the hurling before professional rugby came calling, probably making a decent enough living out of it in France, so hard to fault these lads.
Cork have the problem Galway had for a long time. The difficulty of getting the team up to the right level after a period of mediocrity. If the team doesn't have the right attitude, bringing promising young players into it usually won't change the dynamic . Cork should have recovered from the 2006 final but they still haven't. From 1980 on they were worth around 2 all Irelands per decade but this has dropped to 0 in the 10s.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/26/joe-canning-wexfords-decline-poses-a-big-problem-for-the-leinster-championship/
In Munster, the margins have been tiny in most of the games and every team has been going flat out. You wonder what toll that will take on them down the road. It was obvious when Clare got to the All-Ireland semi-final last year that they didn't have much left in the tank and that's the risk for the team that loses the Munster final.
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 07:39:50 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 24, 2023, 05:25:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 04:09:03 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 24, 2023, 09:26:01 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2023, 05:40:05 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 03:43:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 23, 2023, 03:09:53 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 09:19:43 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 23, 2023, 08:59:16 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 23, 2023, 08:41:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 04:58:01 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 04:09:23 PM
Quote from: marty34 on May 22, 2023, 03:07:48 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on May 22, 2023, 03:01:13 PM
How is it a closed shop if Kerry win the Joe Mc and get into the Munster Championship based on results?
Are you saying they should be parachuted over other Joe McDonagh level teams purely because they are based in Munster?
As regards weaker counties developing hurling
Kilkenny for all the bad press with regards to them and football
they still have 30 plus of their clubs playing football
Where are the equivalent counties that would be strong in football and have 30 of their clubs playing hurling?
The fact is,there isn't
They are the only county in Munster not playing in it.
Westmeath and Antrim are in the Leinster championship. Are you saying to me that Kerry wouldn't give them a good game?
You do know how the Joe McDonagh competition works ?
Are you saying they should get promoted to the Liam McCarthy over every other county in the Joe Mc purely on the fact that they are based in Munster ?
Yeah, I am saying that. They're the only team in Munster not playing in Munster. I'd may an exception.
Seems like the big boys want to keep a closed shop - for all the grá of hurling in Munster, it's a clear case of hurling snobbery at its finest.
By the way, if you're so excerised over the the Joe Mc Donagh, are you saying the winners and runners up should qualify instead of the 4th placed teams in Leinster and Munster?
such absolute drivel
Firstly you didn't know that if Kerry won the Joe Mc Donagh, they would be in the Munster Championship
Then you wanted Kerry taken out of the Joe McDonagh and put in Munster regardless even thought they aren't good enough to win it at the minute and over the heads of all the other teams competing in the Joe McDonagh
Now its a grand conspiracy by the Hurling Elite to keep hurling down
Liam Griffin had a motion before congress that every Gaa club would have a hurling team up to u9/11
Everyone of your downtrodden northern counties voted against it
how about you start there with your "closed shop" bull shit
You are probably fully aware that barring Antrim all the other northern counties are footballing dominated and the county boards reflect that in their decision making.
Liams motion was well intended but impractical and what I'd prefer that Croke park insist that there's certain days of the week/month set aside for hurling only.
Go games blitzes be organised within the county and kids who want to hurl but are from a football only play for amalgamations organised by the counties GDO's.
Kids will play anything if given the chance, but far too many CB's and clubs make kids decide on one or the other. Let's allocate slots so that this isn't the case.
Dublin used to do this, probably still do where each alternate Saturday morning is rotated between hurling and football. More counties need to adopt this approach.
so its now Footballs fault
and here we were being told it was the "Hurling Elite" keeping hurling down
Liam Griffins proposal was impractical and yet you are suggesting weeks or god help us Months being set aside for Hurling when there's not enough teams in those counties to play hurling in the first instance
You grow hurling from the ground up and you grow with kids of u9,introducing the game to kids of 12 and older is nearly a waste of time
if they dont have the basics by 8/9/10
you are at nothing
As I say, such a positive attitude to the young GAA lad/lassies all over Ireland.
Stay in the B team as you're rubbish at picking the ball at 9 years old.
As a matter of fact, don't come back as you're no good.
I hope you're not coaching U9's or U10's.
Great attitude.
And you are an awful eejit to even type all that
Ger Loughnane who would know a thing more about Hurling than you has often stated that you need to have the basics by the time you are 6 or 7
That the difference between the strong hurling counties and the weak
In the Strong the Hurley is an extension of a young lads arm
in the weak its a 2 hours a week training session at best
Holy Cow - quoting Loughnane in 2023!
Now you're saying if you don't have the basics by 6 or 7...instead of 9 or 10.
Whatever you say Coach.
This just shows you up for how little you actually know when it comes to Hurling
Anyone that knows anything about Hurling would know the quicker you get a hurley into a young lads hand and then the more often they practice, the more proficient they will get
that holds true in 2023 the same as it did in 2003 or 1993
As for looking down your nose at Ger Loughnane
You and your county would be delighted with yourselves if you achieved a tenth of what he achieved
Says the coach who discards any kid who can't pick the ball up by 6 or 7.
Wise up.
Christ your some fool
Point out exactly where i said that
You clearly dont have a clue about Hurling but are arrogant enough to display your ignorance on here
This is your quote:
You grow hurling from the ground up and you grow with kids of u9,introducing the game to kids of 12 and older is nearly a waste of time
if they dont have the basics by 8/9/10
you are at nothing
You are at nothing - such a statement. Then you bring Loughnane into it using a younger age group. FFS. A few posters pulled you up on it.
Good debate on another thread about the merits of Go Games and competitive blitzes etc. You should read it - differing opinions on how to develop young players.
You might learn a thing or two.
Down Lad with all the answers to developing Hurlers
When can we see the fruits of yere labours?
Quote from: seafoid on May 25, 2023, 02:27:44 PM
Cork have the problem Galway had for a long time. The difficulty of getting the team up to the right level after a period of mediocrity. If the team doesn't have the right attitude, bringing promising young players into it usually won't change the dynamic . Cork should have recovered from the 2006 final but they still haven't. From 1980 on they were worth around 2 all Irelands per decade but this has dropped to 0 in the 10s.
Corks problem is tippy tappy Hurling and the fact that the club game is gone marsh mellow soft down there
Galways problem for a long time used to be the opposite, talented Galway minors getting beheaded when they stepped up and played in senior club games
A Defining weekend for the Championship
If Cork beat Limerick, they are gone and then its wide open for everyone else.
The more likelihood is that Limerick win and then win the All Ireland
A Tipp win and Limerick win puts Limerick third and a game most likely against Carlow ,
Which Kiely the chance to get game time into the younger Lads who he has been slow enough to bring in, in the heat of a Munster championship
Your English's,Coughlin,Boylan even young Houlihan who featured during the League
They all perform and then Lynch and Hegarty and Hayes get time to get their mojo back
And they are primed to face the losers of a Leinster Final in the Quarter Final
Then they face the Leinster Champions in a semi final
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 26, 2023, 11:38:02 AM
A Defining weekend for the Championship
If Cork beat Limerick, they are gone and then its wide open for everyone else.
The more likelihood is that Limerick win and then win the All Ireland
A Tipp win and Limerick win puts Limerick third and a game most likely against Carlow ,
Which Kiely the chance to get game time into the younger Lads who he has been slow enough to bring in, in the heat of a Munster championship
Your English's,Coughlin,Boylan even young Houlihan who featured during the League
They all perform and then Lynch and Hegarty and Hayes get time to get their mojo back
And they are primed to face the losers of a Leinster Final in the Quarter Final
Then they face the Leinster Champions in a semi final
I would have thought if Limerick beat Cork and then the Carlow/Offaly loser and then the Leinster runner up they would quite probably play the Munster Champs in the semi final as the Munster runner up will likely be in the other semi final (after beating winner of Carlow/Offaly and then Dublin who they should also beat).
Quote from: blasmere on May 26, 2023, 11:44:43 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 26, 2023, 11:38:02 AM
A Defining weekend for the Championship
If Cork beat Limerick, they are gone and then its wide open for everyone else.
The more likelihood is that Limerick win and then win the All Ireland
A Tipp win and Limerick win puts Limerick third and a game most likely against Carlow ,
Which Kiely the chance to get game time into the younger Lads who he has been slow enough to bring in, in the heat of a Munster championship
Your English's,Coughlin,Boylan even young Houlihan who featured during the League
They all perform and then Lynch and Hegarty and Hayes get time to get their mojo back
And they are primed to face the losers of a Leinster Final in the Quarter Final
Then they face the Leinster Champions in a semi final
I would have thought if Limerick beat Cork and then the Carlow/Offaly loser and then the Leinster runner up they would quite probably play the Munster Champs in the semi final as the Munster runner up will likely be in the other semi final (after beating winner of Carlow/Offaly and then Dublin who they should also beat).
Runner Up in Joe Mc plays third placed Munster Team Saturday 17/6 or Sunday 18/6
Winner of that then plays Leinster Runner Up on Saturday 24/6
Quote from: blasmere on May 26, 2023, 11:44:43 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 26, 2023, 11:38:02 AM
A Defining weekend for the Championship
If Cork beat Limerick, they are gone and then its wide open for everyone else.
The more likelihood is that Limerick win and then win the All Ireland
A Tipp win and Limerick win puts Limerick third and a game most likely against Carlow ,
Which Kiely the chance to get game time into the younger Lads who he has been slow enough to bring in, in the heat of a Munster championship
Your English's,Coughlin,Boylan even young Houlihan who featured during the League
They all perform and then Lynch and Hegarty and Hayes get time to get their mojo back
And they are primed to face the losers of a Leinster Final in the Quarter Final
Then they face the Leinster Champions in a semi final
I would have thought if Limerick beat Cork and then the Carlow/Offaly loser and then the Leinster runner up they would quite probably play the Munster Champs in the semi final as the Munster runner up will likely be in the other semi final (after beating winner of Carlow/Offaly and then Dublin who they should also beat).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_All-Ireland_Senior_Hurling_Championship
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2023, 11:54:48 AM
Quote from: blasmere on May 26, 2023, 11:44:43 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 26, 2023, 11:38:02 AM
A Defining weekend for the Championship
If Cork beat Limerick, they are gone and then its wide open for everyone else.
The more likelihood is that Limerick win and then win the All Ireland
A Tipp win and Limerick win puts Limerick third and a game most likely against Carlow ,
Which Kiely the chance to get game time into the younger Lads who he has been slow enough to bring in, in the heat of a Munster championship
Your English's,Coughlin,Boylan even young Houlihan who featured during the League
They all perform and then Lynch and Hegarty and Hayes get time to get their mojo back
And they are primed to face the losers of a Leinster Final in the Quarter Final
Then they face the Leinster Champions in a semi final
I would have thought if Limerick beat Cork and then the Carlow/Offaly loser and then the Leinster runner up they would quite probably play the Munster Champs in the semi final as the Munster runner up will likely be in the other semi final (after beating winner of Carlow/Offaly and then Dublin who they should also beat).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_All-Ireland_Senior_Hurling_Championship
That doesnt tell you who plays the winner or loser of the Joe Mc
Use this link
https://www.gaa.ie/hurling/gaa-hurling-all-ireland-senior-championship/fixtures
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb9jyjSh6hI&t=1096s
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 26, 2023, 11:57:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2023, 11:54:48 AM
Quote from: blasmere on May 26, 2023, 11:44:43 AM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 26, 2023, 11:38:02 AM
A Defining weekend for the Championship
If Cork beat Limerick, they are gone and then its wide open for everyone else.
The more likelihood is that Limerick win and then win the All Ireland
A Tipp win and Limerick win puts Limerick third and a game most likely against Carlow ,
Which Kiely the chance to get game time into the younger Lads who he has been slow enough to bring in, in the heat of a Munster championship
Your English's,Coughlin,Boylan even young Houlihan who featured during the League
They all perform and then Lynch and Hegarty and Hayes get time to get their mojo back
And they are primed to face the losers of a Leinster Final in the Quarter Final
Then they face the Leinster Champions in a semi final
I would have thought if Limerick beat Cork and then the Carlow/Offaly loser and then the Leinster runner up they would quite probably play the Munster Champs in the semi final as the Munster runner up will likely be in the other semi final (after beating winner of Carlow/Offaly and then Dublin who they should also beat).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_All-Ireland_Senior_Hurling_Championship
That doesnt tell you who plays the winner or loser of the Joe Mc
Use this link
https://www.gaa.ie/hurling/gaa-hurling-all-ireland-senior-championship/fixtures
It does
All-Ireland preliminary quarter-finals
17 June 2023 Joe McDonagh Cup Winners v 3rd Leinster Championship
17 June 2023 Joe McDonagh Cup Runners-Up v 3rd Munster Championship
All-Ireland quarter-finals
24 June 2023 Munster Runners-Up v Peliminary Quarter-Final Winners 1
24 June 2023 Leinster Runners-Up v Peliminary Quarter-Final Winners 2
All-Ireland semi-finals
9 July 2023 Leinster Champions v Quarter-Final Winners 1
8 July 2023 Munster Champions v Quarter-Final Winners 2
Ah right, so it still leaves it open for a Munster Champs v Limerick AI Final, assuming Limerick finish 3rd in Munster.
Plenty of chat about the final group settings but I'll be interested to see how Waterford go this weekend.
Surely there much be some sort of kick in them after all that's been said about them...you'd think.
You'd think they'd keep Dessie H a bit closer to goal to frighten a few defenders instead of being out the field a good bit.
This game should tell us more about Davy Fitz and Waterford.
Quote from: blasmere on May 26, 2023, 12:24:00 PM
Ah right, so it still leaves it open for a Munster Champs v Limerick AI Final, assuming Limerick finish 3rd in Munster.
Hard to know what is wrong with Limerick and whether it is fixable. In 2013 Kilkenny collapsed having won 6 all irelands between 06 and 12.
Dublin won Leinster and Clare won the all Ireland. Cork finished Kilkenny off in an amazing match.
KK came back to win two more in 14 and 15. That was the last of them.
I'm finding the Cork/Limerick game close to call.
I think Limerick will have learned a bit from Clare and have a few high balls going into their forwards and having Guillane and Co sweeping up off those balls. If Lynch starts it would be hard for him to be as bad again and getting the hook might have concentrated his mind a bit.
Going for Limerick but only just.
Tipp to beat Waterford by three or four, you'd think Waterford would be going full pelt to gain some self respect but hard to know what's going on inside that changing room. The sight of Cahill and Bevans in the other dugout should be another catalyst, I'm not confident they have that kick.
Galway to beat Dublin after a bit of a scare and Kilkenny to beat Wexford pulling up.
Antrim have it to do vrs Westmeath with key men missing, that might be a tight one with all of Wexford cheering on the lakesiders.
Cork had 30 all Irelands in 2005 and Kilkenny had 28. Now Kilkenny have 36 to Cork's 30
You would expect some mean reversion from Cork at some stage.
Donal Og Tailteann was involved in the strike that poleaxed Cork hurling. None of the Kilkenny hurlers were as polarising.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 26, 2023, 03:30:18 PM
I'm finding the Cork/Limerick game close to call.
I think Limerick will have learned a bit from Clare and have a few high balls going into their forwards and having Guillane and Co sweeping up off those balls. If Lynch starts it would be hard for him to be as bad again and getting the hook might have concentrated his mind a bit.
Going for Limerick but only just.
Tipp to beat Waterford by three or four, you'd think Waterford would be going full pelt to gain some self respect but hard to know what's going on inside that changing room. The sight of Cahill and Bevans in the other dugout should be another catalyst, I'm not confident they have that kick.
Galway to beat Dublin after a bit of a scare and Kilkenny to beat Wexford pulling up.
Antrim have it to do vrs Westmeath with key men missing, that might be a tight one with all of Wexford cheering on the lakesiders.
Tipp had the Waterford experience last year. Sometimes the year is rotten. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb9jyjSh6hI&t=1096s
Cork can score score goals but tend to fade out . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCJblaUkkfc
We don't know what is wrong with Limerick. The match could go either way.
I don't think the Wexicans deserve to go down.
Quote from: seafoid on May 26, 2023, 03:41:05 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 26, 2023, 03:30:18 PM
I'm finding the Cork/Limerick game close to call.
I think Limerick will have learned a bit from Clare and have a few high balls going into their forwards and having Guillane and Co sweeping up off those balls. If Lynch starts it would be hard for him to be as bad again and getting the hook might have concentrated his mind a bit.
Going for Limerick but only just.
Tipp to beat Waterford by three or four, you'd think Waterford would be going full pelt to gain some self respect but hard to know what's going on inside that changing room. The sight of Cahill and Bevans in the other dugout should be another catalyst, I'm not confident they have that kick.
Galway to beat Dublin after a bit of a scare and Kilkenny to beat Wexford pulling up.
Antrim have it to do vrs Westmeath with key men missing, that might be a tight one with all of Wexford cheering on the lakesiders.
Tipp had the Waterford experience last year. Sometimes the year is rotten. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tb9jyjSh6hI&t=1096s
Cork can score score goals but tend to fade out . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCJblaUkkfc
We don't know what is wrong with Limerick. The match could go either way.
I don't think the Wexicans deserve to go down.
They very much will if they finish bottom, no deserving about it. In saying that I think Westmeath will beat Antrim with the momentum from last week and with Antrim's injuries.
Hegarty and Lynch gave them very little the last day, Tipp were the better team in most people's eyes, and still couldn't put them away. That shows the levels Limerick are operating at. I expect a good game from Flanagan, and Kyle Hayes being moved up the pitch is an option. I hope I'm wrong but I can't see Cork having the metal for the white heat of the Gaelic grounds for all the marbles. Limerick by 4-6
Limerick are operating below the level of Clare and Tipp. It's not that they had a bad start. They haven't been able to find their previous form.
Maybe Cork are below their level. I don't know. But there is something wrong with Limerick that wouldn't seem to fit with their status as favourites.
I don't know what is wrong with Lynch and Hegarty but I don't see it being put right on sunday. It might be too close to call but I am going with Cork for the upset even if it wouldn't be that much of an upset.
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 26, 2023, 06:48:29 PM
I don't know what is wrong with Lynch and Hegarty but I don't see it being put right on sunday. It might be too close to call but I am going with Cork for the upset even if it wouldn't be that much of an upset.
I think it'd be quite a big upset, actually. Can't see Cork doing it, at all.
Wexford have been dire pretty much all year. The odds are stacked against them, but I have a hunch that'll they'll wriggle out of it.
Offaly will probably beat Carlow, but they played a dangerous game putting out a dummy team last time. It'd be good enough for them if they got caught.
Antrim won't have any hang ups against Westmeath, this game, regardless of injuries was the pivotal game of the championship for us. We have been scoring well and getting goals. 3-21 should win it and if Westmeath top that then fair play and well deserved.
We just have to match the early intensity they'll bring at the start and settle into the game. The bookies have the game with us very slim favourites
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/27/limerick-and-wexford-not-the-only-ones-with-it-all-on-the-line-on-final-sunday/
An unanticipated problem for Limerick has been the tightness of their panel and its difficulty in absorbing loss of form
Limerick will see it out and hopefully this is the kick that's needed. Long term though, some freshening up is needed.
Sky info has Antrim playing Kerry in the Joe McDonagh final!
Noticed that ;D
Hopefully not a glimpse into the future!
Good game and I love the style of refereeing, let them at it!
Red card for that? Debatable enough penalty. Carlow 2-9 Offaly 1-5 now.
Was never a red based on how he's been ref'ing it so far, based on other games it's a black card and ten minutes in the bin..
Only one winner here now
If you get a red for interfering with the helmet then the Offaly boy pulled his face guard off and deserved it... If... definitely penalty though.
Decent enough game this.
There was no intent in that
Carlow win after extra time. 2-29 to 1-31.
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 27, 2023, 07:07:46 PM
Carlow win after extra time. 2-29 to 1-31.
Great game....... No love lost between the Offaly and Carlow fans!
Quote from: marty34 on May 24, 2023, 04:18:20 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 24, 2023, 02:27:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 24, 2023, 01:43:51 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 24, 2023, 01:03:10 PM
Leinster looks to have fallen into Europa Conference territory rather than Europa League.
Kilkenny & Galway stroll and Wexford look set for relegation.
What can be done to make it a more balanced Championship plus all reviews and previews.
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Interesting but this is because Limerick slipped back into the pack. It's a fantastic summer of hurling with each week better than the previous one but it may not happen again for 5 years.
Wexford have an injury crisis which is not permanent either. Wexford have a decent underage record.
Another podcast touched on Wexford persisting with lads who're obviously not fully fit which begs the question is there no confidence from Management on some of the panelists and did they blood enough younger players during the league. Irrespective they really should be seeing off Westmeath at their leisure and deal with high balls better than they did.
Also, Lets call it for what it is, a much improved Tipp (from last year) drew with a playing poorly Limerick, Limerick sort out their malaise, which isn't a given and we'll know more this weekend and they're still favourites to win the AI. Limerick shot selections poor on the day again with a very poor return.
Kiely certainly called out a few stars who failed to perform on Sunday after getting taken off, so it'll be interesting if they respond in kind. I think he also needs to introduce some fresh blood, something Cody did every once in a while managed to do to keep them on top.
As for the Leinster v Munster champions league/conference comment, I wouldn't be betting too much on Clare or Tipp beating either Galway or Kilkenny later on this summer. Don't confuse a closeness in the games with quality as we saw when KK overturned Clare with ease last summer.
Both Leinster teams have the ability/opportunity to peak later on in the year, the Munster counties have been hammering seven bells out of each other the last few weeks.
Yeah, real action only starts in Croke Park.
Leinster teams are waiting in the long grass!
As an aside, a point almost missed at the week-end was T.J. becoming top scorer in the championship on Saturday. Some achievement. It was mentioned on GAA Go and then Pat Horgan overtook him on Sunday. Another fine achievement.
Who goes the furtherest in this years championship could define the top scorer ever in the hurling championship. What an accolade that is to have. GAA should be making more of these lads rivalry as it's unprecedented.
Imagine T.J., Pat, Joe and Seamie all making their debuts inside a week of each other and are still going strong years later and the scores they're racked up. 4 of the finest. As I say a great achievement.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0526/1385739-statistically-speaking-gaa-failing-to-sell-hoggie-v-tj/
Good article here re: my point about TJ/Pat H.
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 27, 2023, 08:00:43 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 27, 2023, 07:07:46 PM
Carlow win after extra time. 2-29 to 1-31.
Great game....... No love lost between the Offaly and Carlow fans!
Joe Mc Donagh another great final, like Antrim V Kerry last year. Very high scoring last year and the same yesterday.
Great achievement by Carlow. Some core group of players. They just keep going. I'd have fancied Offaly before hand and then fancies them in extra-time after they crawled back to get the draw. But credit to Carlow. Some finish.
Apparently Offaly had 26 wides. They have more work to do and if Wexford get relegated it will take Offaly a minimum of 2 seasons to get promoted.
Westmeath 0-07 2-06 Antrim
Dublin 2-13 0-10 Galway
Wexford 0-05 2-07 Kilkenny
Wexford match now a draw. If this is the result and Antrim win do Westmeath get relegated ?
Wexford 4-23 5-18 Kilkenny
Well done Antrim
3 points in this group ain't too shabby.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/results/gaa/2023/6326/tables/
Seamie Flanagan takes a point after 15 steps.
Some start to this game.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 26, 2023, 08:10:49 PM
Antrim won't have any hang ups against Westmeath, this game, regardless of injuries was the pivotal game of the championship for us. We have been scoring well and getting goals. 3-21 should win it and if Westmeath top that then fair play and well deserved.
We just have to match the early intensity they'll bring at the start and settle into the game. The bookies have the game with us very slim favourites
Bitta trumpet blowing ;)
If Cork can keep up this intensity and Limerick con... scratch that! This is a cracker
Waterford are bating Tipp by 9 points at half time.
Limerick have 3 goals in this game to none for Cork. Cork need to change that. Limerick up by 3.
Cork got a goal but it wasn't enough. Tip were well beaten by Waterford so Limerick go to the Munster final to play Clare. Tipperary barely survived and Cork go home.
Tipp were abysmal last season so expecting them to be worldbeaters this season was a bit too far
Donal og talks some bollocks. Why would you give Westmeath more than anyone lee because they got relegated?
Good ahow by Waterford. Bit of fight in them at least.
Good to see Dessie in where he should be. Makes a big difference.
Tipp will be happy enough.
KK should have put Wexford to the sword. Cody's team wouldn't have let them off I'd say. Great chance to banish Wexford, one of your rivals, from the Leinster championship for a year.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/28/darragh-egan-im-just-delighted-that-the-boys-got-their-just-rewards-today/"We were six or seven minutes from being in an All-Ireland semi-final last year. We were four minutes from being in the Joe McDonagh next year. If we can strike a chord somewhere in the middle, we will have a big say in how things go over the next few years.
Quote from: marty34 on May 29, 2023, 07:33:18 AM
Good ahow by Waterford. Bit of fight in them at least.
Good to see Dessie in where he should be. Makes a big difference.
Tipp will be happy enough.
KK should have put Wexford to the sword. Cody's team wouldn't have let them off I'd say. Great chance to banish Wexford, one of your rivals, from the Leinster championship for a year.
This KK team is not up to the level of Cody's finest
Quote from: seafoid on May 28, 2023, 06:08:53 PM
Tipp were abysmal last season so expecting them to be worldbeaters this season was a bit too far
Tipp had their worst year ever last year.
The aim was to get out of Munster which has been achieved
Offaly in Tullamore next up followed by the losers of the Leinster final
A draw or better would have knocked Limerick out yesterday and Cork just couldn't close it out
They will win the All Ireland now
Limerick may have been a bit fortunate yesterday but did enough to stay in the championship and will push on.
The salty tears of Cork fans are delicious. Extra bonus! 8)
Quote from: Dag Dog on May 29, 2023, 10:35:35 AM
Limerick may have been a bit fortunate yesterday but did enough to stay in the championship and will push on.
The salty tears of Cork fans are delicious. Extra bonus! 8)
I think Cork are coming & will be there or thereabouts in a year or two
When will the Munster final venue be announced?
Trying to get to it.
An amazing game and unfortunately one team won't be given another shot at it
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 29, 2023, 09:42:22 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 28, 2023, 06:08:53 PM
Tipp were abysmal last season so expecting them to be worldbeaters this season was a bit too far
Tipp had their worst year ever last year.
The aim was to get out of Munster which has been achieved
Offaly in Tullamore next up followed by the losers of the Leinster final
A draw or better would have knocked Limerick out yesterday and Cork just couldn't close it out
They will win the All Ireland now
Tipp were shite for most of the 70s. Last year only lasted a year.
I dunno about Limerick and the 4 in a row. Cork are not the finished article. There is something missing from Limerick. They remind me of Kilkenny in 2013. They couldn't find their mojo.
Cork failed to deal with the high balls in a paid the price, yes the penalty was soft but the optics for O'Donoghue weren't good, the ball had broken off the two lads, O'Donoghue didn't see where it had gone, had his arm in (as does any defender nowadays) and Guillane trying to get to the ball even if he has a hold of O'Donoghues arm, it's easy to see why it was given TBH.
Limerick also left at least two good goal chances behind, great flick off the hurl by the Cork keeper, Collins to prevent Guillane from pulling the trigger in the first half when only 8 metres out and also Guillanes poor layoff to Flanaghan in the second half with the goal at their mercy.
Yes, Cork have made improvements but they've still a bit to go, they rightly got a lot of frees due to Limerick's tackling being wayward and more often than not high tackles, but Limerick still hit something like 14 wides, some of those very poor, others were down to good pressure on the attacker but they also struggled and left a lot of space in behind and left both Guillane and Flanaghan too often on one on one situations, that needs addressed, the same wasn't happening for the Cork forwards who'd two or three Limerick defenders to take on a beat before a chance arose.
Limerick still aren't their slickest, dropped catches, missed lifts, poor passes, wrong options still riddled this performance but there was a greater intensity to them and they've found themselves in the Munster final after Tipp failed to turn up in Tom Semples field.
It's all to play for and Limerick are back in the driving seat.
Is there an argument to be made that by the time the Munster championship is over the teams will have gutted themselves that much that it could open the door for KK or Galway.
IMO it is the only way this KK team will get close to any of the other teams, serious rebuild required.
Great weekend of hurling, agree with JC Limerick still making those basic mistakes which we havent seen from them in recent times but there is no denying their hunger for the battle. All of the subs came on for players who had completely gassed themselves and were shattered coming off.
Cork are not the finished article but maybe were lucky not to go forward.
Limerick beat the bottom 2 teams, drew with the third place team and lost to the top team.
It's really hard to know how good they are this year.
Quote from: NAG1 on May 30, 2023, 09:57:18 AM
Is there an argument to be made that by the time the Munster championship is over the teams will have gutted themselves that much that it could open the door for KK or Galway.
IMO it is the only way this KK team will get close to any of the other teams, serious rebuild required.
Great weekend of hurling, agree with JC Limerick still making those basic mistakes which we havent seen from them in recent times but there is no denying their hunger for the battle. All of the subs came on for players who had completely gassed themselves and were shattered coming off.
There's no doubt that the Munster teams have to hit the top level quicker in the season and as Tipp found out there's no easy games, whereas with the best will in the world KK and Galway can ease off in a few games in Leinster, the problem is they better be able to make the step up when the need arises come quarterfinal stage and if we do get a lowkey Leinster final the winners could be going into an AI semi-final not having been to the pitch of a high pressure game as yet!.
Galway were awful in the first half on Sunday but credit to the Dubs, they went at them and gave it a right lash, KK were also a bit off it against a fired up Wexford, can either find the full 70 minutes going full tilt in the AI stages as they'll need to.
Has to be remembered KK destroyed Clare last year too. They're unlikely to win it but you'll not beat them handy.
Galway are a massive disappointment. They should be so much better than they are. (unless there is some sting in them but don't see it yet).
Kilkenny haven't set the world on fire either. With more matches the key is to peak at the right time and that is later. Munster is completely different.Teams have to peak twice.
Limerick have home venue for the Munster Final.
Should see them over the line.
Quote from: marty34 on May 30, 2023, 06:55:16 PM
Limerick have home venue for the Munster Final.
Should see them over the line.
You'd have expected a 50/50 split on the ticket allocation all the same.
The ground was absolutely packed last day out... it was a joy to see
It seems a bit silly by Clare to agree to Limerick as the venue. They should have played it in Cork. Big new stadium with no big games being played there.
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 30, 2023, 09:19:54 PM
It seems a bit silly by Clare to agree to Limerick as the venue. They should have played it in Cork. Big new stadium with no big games being played there.
Maybe they decided that rather than drive passed the Gaelic grounds and another 50 odd mile to Cork, they'd do their fans a favour and play it at the closest venue. Limerick fans would be coming in on the same road to Cork city.
Ballsy enough move but evidently Thurles not available..
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 08:59:54 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 30, 2023, 09:19:54 PM
It seems a bit silly by Clare to agree to Limerick as the venue. They should have played it in Cork. Big new stadium with no big games being played there.
Maybe they decided that rather than drive passed the Gaelic grounds and another 50 odd mile to Cork, they'd do their fans a favour and play it at the closest venue. Limerick fans would be coming in on the same road to Cork city.
Ballsy enough move but evidently Thurles not available..
That's exactly why they've done it, it's a fair dander from Westest Clare to Cork. They've already beaten them there and the tickets will be 50/50.
West Clare is football. East Clare is hurling.
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 10:52:05 AM
West Clare is football. East Clare is hurling.
Anthony Daly said it's much handier in Limerick for plenty of the Clare lads
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 10:52:05 AM
West Clare is football. East Clare is hurling.
So they've no hurling fans in West Clare then...
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 10:52:05 AM
West Clare is football. East Clare is hurling.
That will be news to the likes of Ballyea then
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 08:59:54 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 30, 2023, 09:19:54 PM
It seems a bit silly by Clare to agree to Limerick as the venue. They should have played it in Cork. Big new stadium with no big games being played there.
Maybe they decided that rather than drive passed the Gaelic grounds and another 50 odd mile to Cork, they'd do their fans a favour and play it at the closest venue. Limerick fans would be coming in on the same road to Cork city.
Ballsy enough move but evidently Thurles not available..
Thurles was available to hold it, I don't know where you got that from
Clare CB wanted Thurles
Limerick CB wanted Cork
as per the statement issued by the Munster Council
Clare requested extra time on Monday night to consult and agreed to the Gaelic Grounds on Tuesday morning
Probably the logical choice as you'd have both sets of fans going down the n20 and Charleville and Buttevant are choked on normal days, the road to Thurles is worse again
Quote from: seafoid on May 29, 2023, 08:38:15 AM
Quote from: marty34 on May 29, 2023, 07:33:18 AM
Good ahow by Waterford. Bit of fight in them at least.
Good to see Dessie in where he should be. Makes a big difference.
Tipp will be happy enough.
KK should have put Wexford to the sword. Cody's team wouldn't have let them off I'd say. Great chance to banish Wexford, one of your rivals, from the Leinster championship for a year.
This KK team is not up to the level of Cody's finest
You dont say
Codys greatest achievement was getting that team to within 2 points of Limerick in last years All Ireland Final
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 11:52:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 08:59:54 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 30, 2023, 09:19:54 PM
It seems a bit silly by Clare to agree to Limerick as the venue. They should have played it in Cork. Big new stadium with no big games being played there.
Maybe they decided that rather than drive passed the Gaelic grounds and another 50 odd mile to Cork, they'd do their fans a favour and play it at the closest venue. Limerick fans would be coming in on the same road to Cork city.
Ballsy enough move but evidently Thurles not available..
Thurles was available to hold it, I don't know where you got that from
Clare CB wanted Thurles
Limerick CB wanted Cork
as per the statement issued by the Munster Council
Clare requested extra time on Monday night to consult and agreed to the Gaelic Grounds on Tuesday morning
Probably the logical choice as you'd have both sets of fans going down the n20 and Charleville and Buttevant are choked on normal days, the road to Thurles is worse again
Thurles not available in so much as the Munster Council knew of both teams preferences as you outlined and decided on Cork, Clare asked for another 24hours to review their options and then offered to play the game in Limerick.
50/50 ticket allocation will make it a good day out for both sets of fans, the Cork County Board losing out on a payout won't go down well.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 12:21:25 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 11:52:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 08:59:54 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 30, 2023, 09:19:54 PM
It seems a bit silly by Clare to agree to Limerick as the venue. They should have played it in Cork. Big new stadium with no big games being played there.
Maybe they decided that rather than drive passed the Gaelic grounds and another 50 odd mile to Cork, they'd do their fans a favour and play it at the closest venue. Limerick fans would be coming in on the same road to Cork city.
Ballsy enough move but evidently Thurles not available..
Thurles was available to hold it, I don't know where you got that from
Clare CB wanted Thurles
Limerick CB wanted Cork
as per the statement issued by the Munster Council
Clare requested extra time on Monday night to consult and agreed to the Gaelic Grounds on Tuesday morning
Probably the logical choice as you'd have both sets of fans going down the n20 and Charleville and Buttevant are choked on normal days, the road to Thurles is worse again
Thurles not available in so much as the Munster Council knew of both teams preferences as you outlined and decided on Cork, Clare asked for another 24hours to review their options and then offered to play the game in Limerick.
50/50 ticket allocation will make it a good day out for both sets of fans, the Cork County Board losing out on a payout won't go down well.
Thurles was available to hold it and Clare wanted to go to Thurles
Munster Council hadnt decided on Cork ahead of giving Clare 24 hours to "review their options"
Jesus your some waffler
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 11:47:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 10:52:05 AM
West Clare is football. East Clare is hurling.
That will be news to the likes of Ballyea then
The plural of anecdote is not data.
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 12:39:24 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 11:47:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 10:52:05 AM
West Clare is football. East Clare is hurling.
That will be news to the likes of Ballyea then
The plural of anecdote is not data.
Aye
and when you make sweeping generalisations that display your lack of actual knowledge
Expect to get pulled up on them
I like this statement of intent from Clare.
Not only is it looking after their fan base to ensure they will get as much support there as possible, while saving them time and money. It is also a really positive psychological outlook for the team, they don't care where it is played they are ready to go.
Don't get me wrong it could back fire on them but definitely have to give it to them, it is ballsy.
Quote from: NAG1 on May 31, 2023, 01:11:00 PM
I like this statement of intent from Clare.
Not only is it looking after their fan base to ensure they will get as much support there as possible, while saving them time and money. It is also a really positive psychological outlook for the team, they don't care where it is played they are ready to go.
Don't get me wrong it could back fire on them but definitely have to give it to them, it is ballsy.
2006 was the last time a team played their opponents at home in a Munster final and won
The last 4/ 5 off the top of my head have all be won by the home team
Quote from: NAG1 on May 31, 2023, 01:11:00 PM
I like this statement of intent from Clare.
Not only is it looking after their fan base to ensure they will get as much support there as possible, while saving them time and money. It is also a really positive psychological outlook for the team, they don't care where it is played they are ready to go.
Don't get me wrong it could back fire on them but definitely have to give it to them, it is ballsy.
Reminds me of a story a few years ago, BC1 might know more about this.
The Athletic Grounds were closed at the time and county matches and championship finals were been played in Crossmaglen. Dromintee complained at the county board meeting about Cross having home advantage for the county final. The Cross delegate stood up and said I'll tell you what we'll play it in Dromintee. Last time there was ever a discussion about venues.
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 12:50:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 12:39:24 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 11:47:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2023, 10:52:05 AM
West Clare is football. East Clare is hurling.
That will be news to the likes of Ballyea then
The plural of anecdote is not data.
Aye
and when you make sweeping generalisations that display your lack of actual knowledge
Expect to get pulled up on them
West Clare is football country. East Clare is hurling. It is not the other way around.
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 12:21:25 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 11:52:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 08:59:54 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 30, 2023, 09:19:54 PM
It seems a bit silly by Clare to agree to Limerick as the venue. They should have played it in Cork. Big new stadium with no big games being played there.
Maybe they decided that rather than drive passed the Gaelic grounds and another 50 odd mile to Cork, they'd do their fans a favour and play it at the closest venue. Limerick fans would be coming in on the same road to Cork city.
Ballsy enough move but evidently Thurles not available..
Thurles was available to hold it, I don't know where you got that from
Clare CB wanted Thurles
Limerick CB wanted Cork
as per the statement issued by the Munster Council
Clare requested extra time on Monday night to consult and agreed to the Gaelic Grounds on Tuesday morning
Probably the logical choice as you'd have both sets of fans going down the n20 and Charleville and Buttevant are choked on normal days, the road to Thurles is worse again
Thurles not available in so much as the Munster Council knew of both teams preferences as you outlined and decided on Cork, Clare asked for another 24hours to review their options and then offered to play the game in Limerick.
50/50 ticket allocation will make it a good day out for both sets of fans, the Cork County Board losing out on a payout won't go down well.
Thurles was available to hold it and Clare wanted to go to Thurles
Munster Council hadnt decided on Cork ahead of giving Clare 24 hours to "review their options"
Jesus your some waffler
Are you saying Clare went off and decided to do a deal with Limerick in holding it in the Gaelic Grounds even after telling the Munster Council they preferred Thurles and the Munster Council not having decided where it was going?
Doesn't make any sense to do that from a Clare perspective.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 12:21:25 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 11:52:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 08:59:54 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 30, 2023, 09:19:54 PM
It seems a bit silly by Clare to agree to Limerick as the venue. They should have played it in Cork. Big new stadium with no big games being played there.
Maybe they decided that rather than drive passed the Gaelic grounds and another 50 odd mile to Cork, they'd do their fans a favour and play it at the closest venue. Limerick fans would be coming in on the same road to Cork city.
Ballsy enough move but evidently Thurles not available..
Thurles was available to hold it, I don't know where you got that from
Clare CB wanted Thurles
Limerick CB wanted Cork
as per the statement issued by the Munster Council
Clare requested extra time on Monday night to consult and agreed to the Gaelic Grounds on Tuesday morning
Probably the logical choice as you'd have both sets of fans going down the n20 and Charleville and Buttevant are choked on normal days, the road to Thurles is worse again
Thurles not available in so much as the Munster Council knew of both teams preferences as you outlined and decided on Cork, Clare asked for another 24hours to review their options and then offered to play the game in Limerick.
50/50 ticket allocation will make it a good day out for both sets of fans, the Cork County Board losing out on a payout won't go down well.
Thurles was available to hold it and Clare wanted to go to Thurles
Munster Council hadnt decided on Cork ahead of giving Clare 24 hours to "review their options"
Jesus your some waffler
Are you saying Clare went off and decided to do a deal with Limerick in holding it in the Gaelic Grounds even after telling the Munster Council they preferred Thurles and the Munster Council not having decided where it was going?
Doesn't make any sense to do that from a Clare perspective.
Clare didn't go off and do a deal with Limerick
If the deal was to be done
It was to be done between Clare and the Munster council
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 04:03:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 12:21:25 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 11:52:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 08:59:54 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 30, 2023, 09:19:54 PM
It seems a bit silly by Clare to agree to Limerick as the venue. They should have played it in Cork. Big new stadium with no big games being played there.
Maybe they decided that rather than drive passed the Gaelic grounds and another 50 odd mile to Cork, they'd do their fans a favour and play it at the closest venue. Limerick fans would be coming in on the same road to Cork city.
Ballsy enough move but evidently Thurles not available..
Thurles was available to hold it, I don't know where you got that from
Clare CB wanted Thurles
Limerick CB wanted Cork
as per the statement issued by the Munster Council
Clare requested extra time on Monday night to consult and agreed to the Gaelic Grounds on Tuesday morning
Probably the logical choice as you'd have both sets of fans going down the n20 and Charleville and Buttevant are choked on normal days, the road to Thurles is worse again
Thurles not available in so much as the Munster Council knew of both teams preferences as you outlined and decided on Cork, Clare asked for another 24hours to review their options and then offered to play the game in Limerick.
50/50 ticket allocation will make it a good day out for both sets of fans, the Cork County Board losing out on a payout won't go down well.
Thurles was available to hold it and Clare wanted to go to Thurles
Munster Council hadnt decided on Cork ahead of giving Clare 24 hours to "review their options"
Jesus your some waffler
Are you saying Clare went off and decided to do a deal with Limerick in holding it in the Gaelic Grounds even after telling the Munster Council they preferred Thurles and the Munster Council not having decided where it was going?
Doesn't make any sense to do that from a Clare perspective.
Clare didn't go off and do a deal with Limerick
If the deal was to be done
It was to be done between Clare and the Munster council
Munster Senior Hurling Final Venue Confirmed
Following a meeting today of the CCC of the Munster Council, it has been agreed that the Munster Senior Hurling Championship Final between Clare and Limerick will take place at the TUS Gaelic Grounds in Limerick on Sunday June 11th at 1:45 pm.
This decision follows a request from Clare to the Munster Council CCC on Monday evening of May 29th to postpone making a decision on the venue to allow Clare time to explore the possibility of playing the game at the TUS Gaelic Grounds in Limerick. Earlier, Clare had proposed Semple Stadium, while Limerick had proposed Páirc Uí Chaoimh. The Munster Council CCC agreed to postpone making their decision,
and today Clare and Limerick have confirmed that they had reached agreement to play the game at the TUS Gaelic Grounds.The 1:45 pm throw in time is to facilitate live TV and the possibility of extra time. The Leinster Final throws in at 4 pm.
Stand tickets will be distributed through participating County Boards only, while terrace tickets will be going on sale to the general public on Thursday June 1st at 12 Noon
END OF STATEMENT
No, Clare and Limerick reached an agreement, obviously needed ratified by the Munster Council, but sure it's all done and dusted now!
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 04:53:56 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 04:03:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 12:21:25 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 11:52:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 08:59:54 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 30, 2023, 09:19:54 PM
It seems a bit silly by Clare to agree to Limerick as the venue. They should have played it in Cork. Big new stadium with no big games being played there.
Maybe they decided that rather than drive passed the Gaelic grounds and another 50 odd mile to Cork, they'd do their fans a favour and play it at the closest venue. Limerick fans would be coming in on the same road to Cork city.
Ballsy enough move but evidently Thurles not available..
Thurles was available to hold it, I don't know where you got that from
Clare CB wanted Thurles
Limerick CB wanted Cork
as per the statement issued by the Munster Council
Clare requested extra time on Monday night to consult and agreed to the Gaelic Grounds on Tuesday morning
Probably the logical choice as you'd have both sets of fans going down the n20 and Charleville and Buttevant are choked on normal days, the road to Thurles is worse again
Thurles not available in so much as the Munster Council knew of both teams preferences as you outlined and decided on Cork, Clare asked for another 24hours to review their options and then offered to play the game in Limerick.
50/50 ticket allocation will make it a good day out for both sets of fans, the Cork County Board losing out on a payout won't go down well.
Thurles was available to hold it and Clare wanted to go to Thurles
Munster Council hadnt decided on Cork ahead of giving Clare 24 hours to "review their options"
Jesus your some waffler
Are you saying Clare went off and decided to do a deal with Limerick in holding it in the Gaelic Grounds even after telling the Munster Council they preferred Thurles and the Munster Council not having decided where it was going?
Doesn't make any sense to do that from a Clare perspective.
Clare didn't go off and do a deal with Limerick
If the deal was to be done
It was to be done between Clare and the Munster council
Munster Senior Hurling Final Venue Confirmed
Following a meeting today of the CCC of the Munster Council, it has been agreed that the Munster Senior Hurling Championship Final between Clare and Limerick will take place at the TUS Gaelic Grounds in Limerick on Sunday June 11th at 1:45 pm.
This decision follows a request from Clare to the Munster Council CCC on Monday evening of May 29th to postpone making a decision on the venue to allow Clare time to explore the possibility of playing the game at the TUS Gaelic Grounds in Limerick. Earlier, Clare had proposed Semple Stadium, while Limerick had proposed Páirc Uí Chaoimh. The Munster Council CCC agreed to postpone making their decision, and today Clare and Limerick have confirmed that they had reached agreement to play the game at the TUS Gaelic Grounds.
The 1:45 pm throw in time is to facilitate live TV and the possibility of extra time. The Leinster Final throws in at 4 pm.
Stand tickets will be distributed through participating County Boards only, while terrace tickets will be going on sale to the general public on Thursday June 1st at 12 Noon
END OF STATEMENT
No, Clare and Limerick reached an agreement, obviously needed ratified by the Munster Council, but sure it's all done and dusted now!
You do realise it's up to the Munster Council to decide when and where games within the province are to be played
It's amazing that some lad from Down knew that Thurles was unavailable
Even though Clare looked for it and it was available to host
And then knows all about the contents of "the deal" struck between Clare and Limerick,
And then knows the inner workings of the Munster Council
Remarkable
Jonny in Down will have the same view of the Munster final as you and everyone else from Tipp, from the living room sofa. Maybe your not as ignorant via the audio platform, who knows.
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 05:36:09 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 04:53:56 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 04:03:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 12:21:25 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 11:52:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 08:59:54 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 30, 2023, 09:19:54 PM
It seems a bit silly by Clare to agree to Limerick as the venue. They should have played it in Cork. Big new stadium with no big games being played there.
Maybe they decided that rather than drive passed the Gaelic grounds and another 50 odd mile to Cork, they'd do their fans a favour and play it at the closest venue. Limerick fans would be coming in on the same road to Cork city.
Ballsy enough move but evidently Thurles not available..
Thurles was available to hold it, I don't know where you got that from
Clare CB wanted Thurles
Limerick CB wanted Cork
as per the statement issued by the Munster Council
Clare requested extra time on Monday night to consult and agreed to the Gaelic Grounds on Tuesday morning
Probably the logical choice as you'd have both sets of fans going down the n20 and Charleville and Buttevant are choked on normal days, the road to Thurles is worse again
Thurles not available in so much as the Munster Council knew of both teams preferences as you outlined and decided on Cork, Clare asked for another 24hours to review their options and then offered to play the game in Limerick.
50/50 ticket allocation will make it a good day out for both sets of fans, the Cork County Board losing out on a payout won't go down well.
Thurles was available to hold it and Clare wanted to go to Thurles
Munster Council hadnt decided on Cork ahead of giving Clare 24 hours to "review their options"
Jesus your some waffler
Are you saying Clare went off and decided to do a deal with Limerick in holding it in the Gaelic Grounds even after telling the Munster Council they preferred Thurles and the Munster Council not having decided where it was going?
Doesn't make any sense to do that from a Clare perspective.
Clare didn't go off and do a deal with Limerick
If the deal was to be done
It was to be done between Clare and the Munster council
Munster Senior Hurling Final Venue Confirmed
Following a meeting today of the CCC of the Munster Council, it has been agreed that the Munster Senior Hurling Championship Final between Clare and Limerick will take place at the TUS Gaelic Grounds in Limerick on Sunday June 11th at 1:45 pm.
This decision follows a request from Clare to the Munster Council CCC on Monday evening of May 29th to postpone making a decision on the venue to allow Clare time to explore the possibility of playing the game at the TUS Gaelic Grounds in Limerick. Earlier, Clare had proposed Semple Stadium, while Limerick had proposed Páirc Uí Chaoimh. The Munster Council CCC agreed to postpone making their decision, and today Clare and Limerick have confirmed that they had reached agreement to play the game at the TUS Gaelic Grounds.
The 1:45 pm throw in time is to facilitate live TV and the possibility of extra time. The Leinster Final throws in at 4 pm.
Stand tickets will be distributed through participating County Boards only, while terrace tickets will be going on sale to the general public on Thursday June 1st at 12 Noon
END OF STATEMENT
No, Clare and Limerick reached an agreement, obviously needed ratified by the Munster Council, but sure it's all done and dusted now!
You do realise it's up to the Munster Council to decide when and where games within the province are to be played
It's amazing that some lad from Down knew that Thurles was unavailable
Even though Clare looked for it and it was available to host
And then knows all about the contents of "the deal" struck between Clare and Limerick,
And then knows the inner workings of the Munster Council
Remarkable
It's ok to be wrong once in a while, premierview even when the Munster council statement proves me right.
Just because I'm from Down doesn't mean I don't have contacts in both Limerick and Clare, let alone Tipp, heck Len Gaynor stayed in our house back when he managed the McDonaghs to a club AI, I could go on.
;D
Premier view seems to be living down to the Tipp kn**ker stereotype
Quote from: Kidder81 on May 31, 2023, 09:40:50 PM
Premier view seems to be living down to the Tipp kn**ker stereotype
I used to frequent the premiumview forum back in the day, plenty of respectful posters on there so not going to draw on stereotypes...
I am, he's a tool!! And a snob!
Complete clown.
Unless you're All Star material by 6 or 7 years old, you're finished...according to him.
Not that knowledgeable on hurling either. Likes to waffle.
Let him 'aff and like Brolly, don't take him too serious.
I wonder will Cian Lynch start the next day out. Key thing for Limerick is to put a marker on TK, follow him everywhere - don't even worry about the ball.
Should be good. Clare will be well ready.
Going by the way he was moving when he came on can't see Cian being fully ready for this one.
Definitely doesn't look back to his sharpest.
Quote from: NAG1 on June 01, 2023, 01:59:02 PM
Going by the way he was moving when he came on can't see Cian being fully ready for this one.
Definitely doesn't look back to his sharpest.
He's got two weeks from the Cork game, but yes doesn't look to be operating at top speed when he did enter the fray..
Clare need a fullback for the final, they might have to choose between Paul Flanagan and Morey, neither ideal as you need someone in there with a bit of pace, physicality and aerial ability, you need all to be able to deal with Guillane and Seamus Flanagan even with Conlon sitting deep in front.
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 09:34:42 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 05:36:09 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 04:53:56 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 04:03:33 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 03:55:33 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 12:37:23 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 12:21:25 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on May 31, 2023, 11:52:47 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on May 31, 2023, 08:59:54 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on May 30, 2023, 09:19:54 PM
It seems a bit silly by Clare to agree to Limerick as the venue. They should have played it in Cork. Big new stadium with no big games being played there.
Maybe they decided that rather than drive passed the Gaelic grounds and another 50 odd mile to Cork, they'd do their fans a favour and play it at the closest venue. Limerick fans would be coming in on the same road to Cork city.
Ballsy enough move but evidently Thurles not available..
Thurles was available to hold it, I don't know where you got that from
Clare CB wanted Thurles
Limerick CB wanted Cork
as per the statement issued by the Munster Council
Clare requested extra time on Monday night to consult and agreed to the Gaelic Grounds on Tuesday morning
Probably the logical choice as you'd have both sets of fans going down the n20 and Charleville and Buttevant are choked on normal days, the road to Thurles is worse again
Thurles not available in so much as the Munster Council knew of both teams preferences as you outlined and decided on Cork, Clare asked for another 24hours to review their options and then offered to play the game in Limerick.
50/50 ticket allocation will make it a good day out for both sets of fans, the Cork County Board losing out on a payout won't go down well.
Thurles was available to hold it and Clare wanted to go to Thurles
Munster Council hadnt decided on Cork ahead of giving Clare 24 hours to "review their options"
Jesus your some waffler
Are you saying Clare went off and decided to do a deal with Limerick in holding it in the Gaelic Grounds even after telling the Munster Council they preferred Thurles and the Munster Council not having decided where it was going?
Doesn't make any sense to do that from a Clare perspective.
Clare didn't go off and do a deal with Limerick
If the deal was to be done
It was to be done between Clare and the Munster council
Munster Senior Hurling Final Venue Confirmed
Following a meeting today of the CCC of the Munster Council, it has been agreed that the Munster Senior Hurling Championship Final between Clare and Limerick will take place at the TUS Gaelic Grounds in Limerick on Sunday June 11th at 1:45 pm.
This decision follows a request from Clare to the Munster Council CCC on Monday evening of May 29th to postpone making a decision on the venue to allow Clare time to explore the possibility of playing the game at the TUS Gaelic Grounds in Limerick. Earlier, Clare had proposed Semple Stadium, while Limerick had proposed Páirc Uí Chaoimh. The Munster Council CCC agreed to postpone making their decision, and today Clare and Limerick have confirmed that they had reached agreement to play the game at the TUS Gaelic Grounds.
The 1:45 pm throw in time is to facilitate live TV and the possibility of extra time. The Leinster Final throws in at 4 pm.
Stand tickets will be distributed through participating County Boards only, while terrace tickets will be going on sale to the general public on Thursday June 1st at 12 Noon
END OF STATEMENT
No, Clare and Limerick reached an agreement, obviously needed ratified by the Munster Council, but sure it's all done and dusted now!
You do realise it's up to the Munster Council to decide when and where games within the province are to be played
It's amazing that some lad from Down knew that Thurles was unavailable
Even though Clare looked for it and it was available to host
And then knows all about the contents of "the deal" struck between Clare and Limerick,
And then knows the inner workings of the Munster Council
Remarkable
It's ok to be wrong once in a while, premierview even when the Munster council statement proves me right.
Just because I'm from Down doesn't mean I don't have contacts in both Limerick and Clare, let alone Tipp, heck Len Gaynor stayed in our house back when he managed the McDonaghs to a club AI, I could go on.
;D
Wow I'm so impressed
You actually know people not just in Clare but Limerick too
Wow
And a Tipperary man stayed in your house nearly 40 odd years ago
Wow
I hope you have one of the blue plaques up on the wall of your house to signify Lens stay.
You clearly do know people
Clare missing Cleary could be a blessing disguise for them as he lacks the mobility and agility for a modern day full back
He would have been brilliant back in lohans day but the game has moved on
Limerick only hit the ball into Gillane under certain conditions
When it's not on
They point from distance
Time for all posters to cop on with the personal comments towards other posters
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on June 01, 2023, 06:38:48 PM
Clare missing Cleary could be a blessing disguise for them as he lacks the mobility and agility for a modern day full back
He would have been brilliant back in lohans day but the game has moved on
Limerick only hit the ball into Gillane under certain conditions
When it's not on
They point from distance
They used to.
Lots of wides so far this championship.
Quote from: seafoid on June 01, 2023, 08:32:00 PM
Quote from: The Premierview Podcast on June 01, 2023, 06:38:48 PM
Clare missing Cleary could be a blessing disguise for them as he lacks the mobility and agility for a modern day full back
He would have been brilliant back in lohans day but the game has moved on
Limerick only hit the ball into Gillane under certain conditions
When it's not on
They point from distance
They used to.
Lots of wides so far this championship.
Has Limericks number of wides increased in the Munster championship this year v last?
Their number of shots has reduced . Their accuracy numbers are down too.
Quote from: seafoid on June 02, 2023, 05:15:02 AM
Their number of shots has reduced . Their accuracy numbers are down too.
Vrs Cork they still got off 50 shots I believe as they normally would, some of the attempts were from positions and under duress that they wouldn't normally take on, that's changed as much as anything. Pressure of being in a tight game can do that to you.
They also knew there were goals to be had against that Cork defence, Clare showed the way in that regard, Limerick aren't known for actively targeting goals like that so they've added that string to their bow. They also butchered a few goal chances as well.
I'd expect them to go at the Clare defence in a similar fashion, Cleary isn't the most mobile, but lob those balls in on Guillane and Flanagan like they did against Cork and Cleary would have made a much better fist of claiming them or making sure neither Limerick lad got them. Paul Flanagan and Morey don't possess that skillset although both are better over the ground to the diagonal ball in.
Lohan has a big decision to make on that one.
They also got by with a little help from their friends
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_DSh1icy-Y
Quote from: seafoid on June 02, 2023, 10:19:17 AM
They also got by with a little help from their friends
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_DSh1icy-Y
Plenty of frees went against them too, that's the way it goes, marginal calls the lot of them.
Teams are definitely getting closer to them in terms of the physicality of the tackle and swarming them better than in previous years.
This obv has the knock on effect of more shots taken under pressure and players being more physically tired from the exertion to get free to shoot. Resulting in slightly lower returns.
I think that is why they have switched slightly and are now looking to actively get goals, they have realised that maybe they won't hit the previous massive points tally.
21 May
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/05/21/limerick-still-trusting-in-proven-process-as-they-seek-to-get-back-on-track/
Are teams getting closer to Limerick? Cleary points out that seven of Limerick's last eight matches in the championship have been one-score games, including a draw and a defeat; in their previous 10 championship matches their average winning margin had been nearly nine points.
I think Clare will get plenty of joy inside also.
Throw Duggan in there a few times and throw it into him. Have Kelly buzzing about in there also.
Diarmuid Ryan chipping in with a few points from distance with Fitzgerald there also so there could be a good few points from distance.
Tom M. having a great season and Graeme M. always coming off the bench and making an impact these days.
Tier 3,4 and 5 Hurling finals on tomorrow
1pm Monaghan V Lancashire
(Lory Meagher)
3pm Donegal V Wicklow
(Nickey Rackard)
5pm Derry V Meath
(Christy Ring)
Expected attendance only 5,000 for those 6 teams in Croke Park.
And that's fine... these PLAYERS deserve along with management to be allowed to play on the hallowed turf of Croke, regardless of how many turn up
And the GAA fulfils it's big promise of live TV coverage for these games, by showing them on RTE2 and Sky Sports 1. ::)
Only kidding - you'll find them on the TG4 Youtube channel.
They're not even worth a token appearance on GAA Go.
Tailteann Cup backers... take note of what's coming down the tracks
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 02, 2023, 10:37:25 PM
And that's fine... these PLAYERS deserve along with management to be allowed to play on the hallowed turf of Croke, regardless of how many turn up
Absolutely .
Monaghan tried their best to lose that, Lancashire had their chances at the death to still it. Memorable day for all involved at HQ
Clare got the better of Galway in the minor hurling final in what was a surprise to many including all 3 tg4 pundits who backed Galway. Clare enjoyed a big lead before conceding 2 late goals to still win by 5.
In the ongoing under 20 final Cork are pulling away after getting away with a lot of fouling going largely unpunished. 10 points up with 10 minutes to play.
Quote from: Capt Pat on June 04, 2023, 04:17:55 PM
Clare got the better of Galway in the minor hurling final in what was a surprise to many including all 3 tg4 pundits who backed Galway. Clare enjoyed a big lead before conceding 2 late goals to still win by 5.
In the ongoing under 20 final Cork are pulling away after getting away with a lot of fouling going largely unpunished. 10 points up with 10 minutes to play.
Cork, physically further on than the Offaly lads, some of the tackles were borderline and I'm being kind here, one looked like a shoulder, elbow to the head, umpires had the better view of that one. Offaly have some fine stickmen in there, the defender with the green and black helmet being one of them but it may take some time for them to make the difference at senior. They'll need even more underage teams to make the step up to being truly competitive in Leinster and beyond.
Big Eoin Downey patting Screeney on the top of the helmet wasn't a good look, we'll see how many lads be pats on the head like that come senior.
Minors was a good game too, Clare probably the better balanced team even after losing their fullback to injury at half time, Galway more dependent on Niland and Rabbitte to get the scores again.
I wouldn't begrudge Clare. They were very good yesterday.
Galway won All-Ireland minor titles in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020. Clare have a total of 2.
The priority for Galway now is fixing the minor to senior transition mechanism.
Quote from: seafoid on June 05, 2023, 11:32:00 AM
I wouldn't begrudge Clare. They were very good yesterday.
Galway won All-Ireland minor titles in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020. Clare have a total of 2.
The priority for Galway now is fixing the minor to senior transition mechanism.
But that's the reason for the under 20 level, that step up to senior is there, but a small enough percentage of that Galway team will progress to senior. Galway traditionally very strong at minor, what's their record at the old under21 or recent under 20?
they were always decent at u21 too. Not a new problem for them.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 05, 2023, 01:49:50 PM
they were always decent at u21 too. Not a new problem for them.
Been over 12 years since they won last so transition from minor to the next level seems lately to be the problem for Galway
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2023, 01:56:04 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 05, 2023, 01:49:50 PM
they were always decent at u21 too. Not a new problem for them.
Been over 12 years since they won last so transition from minor to the next level seems lately to be the problem for Galway
Jeffrey Lynskey pointed that out during his tenure as Galway minor manager and he went onto manage their U20's but even in a really good minor team you'd be doing well to get 3 lads to intercounty senior.
Cork might find that out as well.
Heck, even the great Kilkenny era is littered with fantastic minor hurlers who never made it to senior, it's not specific to one county.
It always seems more of a problem in Galway though.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 05, 2023, 02:53:48 PM
It always seems more of a problem in Galway though.
The problem with Galway as used to be the case with the seniors is they were walking through to an AI semi final in all age groups until that was changed, so you were judging players on a very small sample size of games.
Now they will have a much better idea of what a player has with the number of games the minors and U-20s are getting in Leinster, and beyond if they get out of Leinster
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2023, 01:46:20 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 05, 2023, 11:32:00 AM
I wouldn't begrudge Clare. They were very good yesterday.
Galway won All-Ireland minor titles in 2015, 2017, 2018, 2019 and 2020. Clare have a total of 2.
The priority for Galway now is fixing the minor to senior transition mechanism.
But that's the reason for the under 20 level, that step up to senior is there, but a small enough percentage of that Galway team will progress to senior. Galway traditionally very strong at minor, what's their record at the old under21 or recent under 20?
The last u21 all Ireland was in 2011-That team was the chassis of the 2017 all Ireland.
Anthony Cunningham dumped the 2011 seniors when he took over and built the team around the 2011 u21s because they had a culture of winning.
Galway hurling got serious then and since then u20 and club titles , which used to be very frequent, have fallen off the wagon.
Galway need to change their club competition structures
They are a joke
Quote from: johnnycool on June 05, 2023, 11:26:36 AM
Quote from: Capt Pat on June 04, 2023, 04:17:55 PM
Clare got the better of Galway in the minor hurling final in what was a surprise to many including all 3 tg4 pundits who backed Galway. Clare enjoyed a big lead before conceding 2 late goals to still win by 5.
In the ongoing under 20 final Cork are pulling away after getting away with a lot of fouling going largely unpunished. 10 points up with 10 minutes to play.
Cork, physically further on than the Offaly lads, some of the tackles were borderline and I'm being kind here, one looked like a shoulder, elbow to the head, umpires had the better view of that one. Offaly have some fine stickmen in there, the defender with the green and black helmet being one of them but it may take some time for them to make the difference at senior. They'll need even more underage teams to make the step up to being truly competitive in Leinster and beyond.
Big Eoin Downey patting Screeney on the top of the helmet wasn't a good look, we'll see how many lads be pats on the head like that come senior.
Cork certainly lowered the blades and some of it was unpleasant.
https://twitter.com/buff_egan/status/1665372458352885762?s=08
Weighing it all up, Cork were going to win this game anyway with their older and highly talented team.
I've read lots of comments from Cork lads patting themselves on the back for by winning by showing an 'edge'. This may not be as clever as they think.
Imagine if a less generous ref showed red to Kingston. When Richie Hogan cost Kilkenny any chance in the 2019 All Ireland by doing something similar, the Kilkenny people weren't thanking him for showing an edge, laying down a marker, showing Tipp who the men were.
Cork had a physical advantage which the correctly used, but there was some cheap stuff mixed in too that is the opposite of good hard hurling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLS3utYEhFc
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 06, 2023, 08:47:17 PM
Galway need to change their club competition structures
They are a joke
What's wrong with the club hurling championships in Galway
Quote from: clonadmad on June 07, 2023, 08:46:13 PM
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on June 06, 2023, 08:47:17 PM
Galway need to change their club competition structures
They are a joke
What's wrong with the club hurling championships in Galway
It was felt it was time to give clubs in other counties a chance.
Taggy Fogarty on Kilkenny's weaknesses
Galway have to lob the ball in all day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEK4e7IRWiY&t=2250s
Quote from: seafoid on June 08, 2023, 11:37:36 AM
Taggy Fogarty on Kilkenny's weaknesses
Galway have to lob the ball in all day
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEK4e7IRWiY&t=2250s
Not on top of Lawlor though, I'd agree with that.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/09/clare-name-injury-doubt-conor-cleary-in-starting-team-for-munster-hurling-final/
Clare name injury doubt Conor Cleary in starting team for Munster hurling final
Adrian Mullen misses Kilkenny's Leinster final against Galway at Croke Park
Clare have named Conor Cleary at full back for the Munster hurling final this weekend. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
Seán Moran
Fri Jun 9 2023 - 13:50
Conor Cleary has been named to start in the Clare team for Sunday's Munster hurling final in the TUS Gaelic Grounds. The full back had to leave the field against Cork after sustaining an arm or shoulder injury and there were fears that he faced a lengthy lay-off.
Manager Brian Lohan names an unchanged team for the weekend but has tended to make changes before the throw-in and if Cleary is deemed not fit to start, the options are Séadna Morey, who replaced him against Cork and All Star nominee Paul Flanagan.
Limerick name the same side that defeated Cork in the last round-robin match. Twice Hurler of the Year Cian Lynch is once again listed on the bench. Having sustained a hamstring injury he didn't start against Cork and appeared for only a few minutes at the end.
He may however be alright to start on Sunday in a reprise of last year's epic final, won by Limerick in extra time.
R
Adrian Mullen misses Kilkenny's Leinster final against Galway at Croke Park, having sustained a thumb fracture against Wexford. He is one of three listed changes from that match. Also out are Pádraig Walsh and Walter Walsh, who revert to the bench.
In comes Mikey Carey, who only recently returned home after a sojourn in Australia but whose pace was a big asset to the team that reached last year's All-Ireland final and two All Star nominees, Richie Reid and Paddy Deegan, have both recovered from injury.
Learn more
Galway list Cathal Mannion among the subs but he is considered unlikely to make an appearance. There are two announced changes with TJ Brennan replaced at corner back by Darren Morrissey and Declan McLoughlin making way for the fit again Brian Concannon.
CLARE: Éibhear Quilligan; Adam Hogan, Conor Cleary, Rory Hayes; Diarmuid Ryan, John Conlon, David McInerney; David Fitzgerald, Cathal Malone; Peter Duggan, Tony Kelly, Aidan McCarthy; Ryan Taylor, Shane O'Donnell, Mark Rodgers.
Subs: Eamonn Foudy, Cian Nolan, Ian Galvin, Shane Meehan, Aron Shanagher, Aaron Fitzgerald, Robin Mounsey, Paul Flanagan, Cian Galvin, Keith Smyth, Séadna Morey.
LIMERICK: Nickie Quaid; Mike Casey, Dan Morrisey, Barry Nash; Diarmaid Byrnes, Declan Hannon (capt), Kyle Hayes; Darragh O'Donovan, Will O'Donoghue; Gearóid Hegarty, Cathal O'Neill, Tom Morrissey; Aaron Gillane, Séamus Flanagan, Peter Casey
Subs: David McCarthy, Conor Boylan, Ronan Connolly, Aaron Costello, Colin Coughlan, Adam English, Richie English, Cian Lynch, Graeme Mulcahy, Oisín O'Reilly, David Reidy.
GALWAY: Éanna Murphy; Jack Grealish, Gearóid McInerney, Darren Morrissey; Pádraic Mannion, Daithi Burke, Fintan Burke; Joseph Cooney, Ronan Glennon; Tom Monaghan, Conor Cooney, Kevin Cooney; Conor Whelan, Brian Concannon, Evan Niland.
This is a fantastic article
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/10/banner-passion-for-the-munster-championship-an-undying-flame/
Why Clare's passion for the Munster championship burns like an undying flame
It's 1998 since Brian Lohan was a central figure on the last Clare team that won the province and now, as manager, his team are intent on bridging that long gap
Denis Walsh
Sat Jun 10 2023 - 04:15
Johnny Callinan was just 17 years old when he was sent into the smouldering remains of the 1972 Munster final.
By his reckoning, Clare were trailing Cork by 32 points, numbed to the humiliation. Haulie Daly, Anthony's uncle, was one of the selectors and they were both Clarecastle men. In the meltdown it dawned on Haulie that he could salvage something imperishable. Just a trinket to take home.
"'Young Callinan, go in there,' Haulie says to me. The secretary wrote out the slip. 'Where am I going on?' I said. 'It doesn't matter – it doesn't matter. Just go on.' His reasoning was that Jimmy Smyth [one of Clare's greatest ever players] had played minor, junior and senior in the same year and Haulie wanted me to play minor, U-21 and senior in the same year. We were only beaten by 22 points in the end."
For generations, Clare's relationship with the Munster final was full of unrequited feelings. They weren't part of its rampant mythology, and they scarcely figured on its roll of honour.
The Munster final had imposed a limit on everything: their ambition, their status, their horizon; glory. In their experience so much about it was oppressive, and yet it was a boundless source of wishful thinking. They were infatuated by it, and inflamed by it, along with everyone else.
Callinan remembers being brought to Munster finals by his father in the early 1960s, lifted over the turnstile in Thurles or Limerick. When he died his Dad's friends continued to take him, faithfully observing the midsummer ritual.
"We were all caught up in it. Even though Clare hadn't won one in living memory, I was brought up completely on the Munster championship. It was the only game in town."
After Clare beat Limerick in the round robin game at the end of April, Brian Lohan immediately framed the outcome in that context.
"The Munster championship is just such a massive competition for us – and historically it's such a big competition for us."
The feeling Lohan described was impervious to the pain that had been handed down through the decades. Between 1932 and 1995 Clare had contested 11 Munster finals, and lost them all. The 22-point beating in 1972 wasn't even a record defeat; they had conceded 11 goals to Limerick in 1918 on the way to a 31-point annihilation. Yet it was rooted in their collective psyche.
"When I was growing up I never even dreamt of an All-Ireland," says Seanie McMahon. "It was something that wasn't even for us. It was nearly like a different game because we were never there. The Munster final was the one. That's where the heartbreak was. That's why winning it was so special. For me, that was the game."
They processed the heartbreak in different ways, on a case-by-case basis. In his long and brilliant career Callinan was involved in six finals, the last of them in Killarney in 1986 when Cork beat them by just three points.
Leaving the field in Fitzgerald Stadium a Clare supporter called him over.
"Give me the hurley," he said, "you won't be needing it again." Callinan flicked the hurley, shaking the wire in front of the pup's face.
"After the match I eventually had to go to a pub with only Cork people in it," says Callinan. "All the Clare people were delighted, they were having a great weekend in Killarney and we were after going close. I knew the end was nigh for me – getting beaten again.
"It's not a game that we left after us, or anything like that. The 1981 final against Limerick, that would be the one that I would be sorest over. We beat Cork [for the first time in 40 years, in the semi-final] and then Joe McKenna ran riot in the final [for Limerick]. There's no good memories out of defeats."
In his autobiography, Anthony Daly writes about coming back to Clarecastle after calamitous Munster final defeats. In 1994 they had been beaten badly for the second year in a row and landed back in the Coach House Inn.
"My sister-in-law Anne started clapping in a genuine show of affection or appreciation," wrote Daly. "Nobody joined her. They were looking at her as if to say, 'What are you applauding those chokers for? They're after sh**ting themselves again.'
"They were only thinking what everyone else was saying behind our backs. It was that kind of sombre mood that prompted the late Michael 'Nuggy' Nihill, who was a great Clare supporter, to ask on Clare FM the Monday after the 1994 final, 'When are Clare going to stop ruining the Munster final?' . . . In 1993 and 1994 some of our people felt we had denigrated the entire history and culture of Clare hurling."
Callinan couldn't see any good in all this torment. Around that time, and for years before, he had been a vocal advocate of dismantling the provincial system and replacing it with an open draw. In his 17-year career he had played just 27 championship matches. Like others, Clare laboured under the twin yokes of history and colonial neighbours.
Clare captain Anthony Daly with the trophy after his side's 1995 Munster final win over Limerick. Tom Honan/Inpho
"I'm a bit of a contrarian here," says Callinan. "I don't give a s**t about the Munster championship. I honestly don't. The Munster championship was a sacred cow, and it was overblown. I've never been a supporter of the provincial championships. In my naivety, when the back door came in, I thought the Munster and Leinster championships would be done away with.
"Now, maybe I'm peeved as well. I togged out in five Munster finals and missed another through injury in '74, and was beaten in all of them. When Clare won the Munster final in 1995 they stopped in Clarecastle with the cup and I must admit I did say to [Ger] Loughnane, 'We can die happy now.'"
Loughnane and Callinan both played in the 1978 Munster final, one of bitterest in their history. Clare had won back-to-back National Leagues and Cork had won back-to-back All-Irelands, and if they weren't the top two teams in the country they were both in the top three. Clare played against the wind in the first half and trailed by just two points at the break; at the end of a low-scoring game, Clare were still two behind. Broken.
RTÉ filmed an atmospheric eight-minute piece about Munster final day in Thurles, without dwelling on the play. Afterwards the RTÉ crew intruded gently on a grieving Clare dressing room, full of people standing around and shuffling in loaded silence. Seamus Durack, Clare's All-Star goalie, said that he had cried after a match for only the second time in his life.
Then they interviewed Loughnane, standing bare-chested, his mop of sandy hair tossed like a salad.
"When we started out three or four years ago our aim was to win an All-Ireland," Loughnane said. "You might think, inside in this dressing room, that aim has been forgotten. I can tell you, it's not forgotten. We were beaten before. I can tell you, we're going to be back again."
It took 17 years for Loughane's prophesy to come true. More than anybody else, he burst the dam in the Clare players' minds. A couple of days after the 1995 Munster final he reflected on a life's work.
"I had firmly made up my mind that I wasn't going to get out of hurling until I won a Munster championship," he said.
"That was my 13th Munster final [with Clare and St Flannan's] I'd lost fecking 12. It became a total and utter obsession. You've no idea how much of an obsession it was. When it was over it was just relief. I know people were euphoric, but I didn't have that feeling of euphoria. Just relief that something that had been a total obsession had been realised."
Under Loughnane they won three Munster titles in four years but have won none since. In the last 25 years Clare have contested just five Munster finals, and lost them all.
Davy Fitzgerald led them to an All-Ireland and a National League, but during his six years as manager they won just one match in Munster. Between 1999 and 2017 Clare reached just one Munster final. On that front, on those bare numbers, it was as bad as their worst days.
"It is a big thing for us still," says Fergie Tuohy, who played on the 90s team, and was a selector on the Clare team that reached the 2008 Munster final.
"The more you go without something, the more you crave for it. Because it's within your province, it gives you a standing.
"Lohan is of the 90s mindset. Playing the Munster final in Limerick was his decision at the end of the day, with the management. I'd say in the back of his mind he was thinking of 1996 – when we were All-Ireland champions and Limerick turned us over in the Gaelic Grounds. He wouldn't be saying it publicly, but in the back of his mind I'd say he'd just like to set the record straight. 'Now ye're the champions, and we'll take ye at home.'"
Under Lohan, Clare have gone baldheaded to win the Munster title. Last year, they gave a performance that would win nine Munster finals out of ten. Over the following month, though, they never fully recovered and in Croke Park they paid a heavy price.
"I think what killed us last year was the extra time," says Callinan. "It absolutely flattened us. Limerick got the Munster championship, but they also got a four week break. The four week break is a huge prize – bigger than winning the Munster championship, in my view."
Callinan has been involved in fundraising for Clare teams since the 1990s and is heavily involved in Club Clare now. He has no quarrel with Lohan's unyielding passion for this championship: Munster first, then the world. He still believes that the provincial system will be torn down one day, though he's not holding his breath. The provincial councils now, he says, are like "little empires".
"It reminds me of that phrase they used during the banking crisis, it [the Munster championship] has gone too big to fail."
Once more. With feeling.
https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1667869196867313665
Clare going toe to toe with Limerick, must be some heat on the pitch today
Half time Limerick 0-11 Clare 1-11.
Are Limerick goosed ?
Goal for Limerick they lead 1-14 to 1-13. 44 mins played.
A Clare goal would put a cat among the pigeons
Into added time Limerick two in front.
Pitch invasion. #Jaysus
From one Munster title in 23 years to now 5 Munster titles in a row for Limerick. FT Limerick 1-23 Clare 1-22.
Clare lost that rather than Limerick winning it
Clare's accuracy let them down at bit in the last 5 mins, but it could hardly be closer.
Bit messy at the end, pitch invasion and no free for Clare despite shoulder in the face.
Clare should've had at least one free there at the end
Thought there was two frees in that last play..
That was a definite free in at the end.
Would have been out of all the frees in that game to give one of those at the end.
Aaron Gillane is something else..
Kelly of all days went missing
He's has Kelly ever been as poor as that..
Why did Clare leave Nolan on Gillane for so long?. It cost them the game. They had a class act like Morey on the bench all along. That and poor finishing at thend cost them dear.
Hopefully Clare don't fade out of the championship like they did last year after losing the Munster final.
Quote from: Onthe40 on June 11, 2023, 03:33:27 PM
He's has Kelly ever been as poor as that..
Last year against Kilkenny.
Quote from: Capt Pat on June 11, 2023, 03:36:44 PM
Why did Clare leave Nolan on Gillane for so long?. It cost them the game. They had a class act like Morey on the bench all along. That and poor finishing at thend cost them dear.
Hopefully Clare don't fade out of the championship like they did last year after losing the Munster final.
This loss is going to hurt.
They missed the full back as well
From gaastatsman. Clares 52% strike rate is where that game was lost for them.
(https://i.ibb.co/25KK05W/Screenshot-20230611-154143-2.png) (https://ibb.co/vDzzCDV)
Galway starting off with good intensity.
Kilkenny Galway 1-6 each after 18 mins.
1-11 Galway 2-6 cats
Half time Kilkenny 2-9 Galway 1-12. The atmosphere in the two finals today a bit different.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 11, 2023, 03:28:58 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on June 11, 2023, 03:28:18 PM
That was a definite free in at the end.
Two.
Jaysus that was as clear two fouls there as you'd ever see. Clare robbed there
Looking good for Kilkenny, 48 minutes played Kilkenny 3-16 Galway 1-15
3 points in it now
Galway level it up 68 minutes played.
galway ahead
Galway 1 up, 3 mins of stoppage time left. Some second half.
2 up.
What a finish
OMG! Goal for Kilkenny to win it with the last poc of the game.
What a finish
FT Galway 2-26 Kilkenny 4-21. Fine comeback by tribesmen yet beaten by a goal in the 6th minute of added time. Four in a row Leinster titles for the cats.
Fair dues to the referee not blowing up on the 5 minutes, when the ball was in a melee in the corner.
What a finish.
Sickening way to lose that though
Don't really watch much Hurling but watched the 2 games today and it was a more enjoyable watch than any of the football I've seen lately.
Quote from: clarshack on June 11, 2023, 05:39:16 PM
Don't really watch much Hurling but watched the 2 games today and it was a more enjoyable watch than any of the football I've seen lately.
That and there are f*ck all Football games on the TV anymore!
Seafoid, don't worry it's only a Leinster title and will always mean more to Kilkenny than Galway!
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 11, 2023, 05:42:08 PM
Quote from: clarshack on June 11, 2023, 05:39:16 PM
Don't really watch much Hurling but watched the 2 games today and it was a more enjoyable watch than any of the football I've seen lately.
That and there are f*ck all Football games on the TV anymore!
You could have all the football games you want on TV and none of them would still match those two hurling games today. Epic stuff.
Gotta be one of the worse goals to give away, what was that lad thinking.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 11, 2023, 05:44:46 PM
Seafoid, don't worry it's only a Leinster title and will always mean more to Kilkenny than Galway!
They haven't won the all Ireland since 2015, the poor creaturs.
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2023, 05:49:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 11, 2023, 05:44:46 PM
Seafoid, don't worry it's only a Leinster title and will always mean more to Kilkenny than Galway!
They haven't won the all Ireland since 2015, the poor creaturs.
They are a step closer to rectifying that after today.
Felt for Conor Walsh being dragged in front of the cameras for to receive a MOTM award that will probably end up being left in the dressing room.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 11, 2023, 06:01:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2023, 05:49:05 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 11, 2023, 05:44:46 PM
Seafoid, don't worry it's only a Leinster title and will always mean more to Kilkenny than Galway!
They haven't won the all Ireland since 2015, the poor creaturs.
They are a step closer to rectifying that after today.
Felt for Conor Walsh being dragged in front of the cameras for to receive a MOTM award that will probably end up being left in the dressing room.
They are still missing something. TJ is 35.
If they were the real deal they would have won by at least 8 points.
24,483 low for today's Leinster final or the expected crowd?
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 11, 2023, 06:10:13 PM
24,483 low for today's Leinster final or the expected crowd?
They were expecting mid-20s, so pretty much as expected!
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 11, 2023, 04:59:43 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 11, 2023, 03:28:58 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on June 11, 2023, 03:28:18 PM
That was a definite free in at the end.
Two.
Jaysus that was as clear two fouls there as you'd ever see. Clare robbed there
What was the ref thinking? Usually they are mad for games to finish level and there was 2 perfect opportunities to have a draw. He obviously wanted a Limerick win.
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 11, 2023, 06:10:13 PM
24,483 low for today's Leinster final or the expected crowd?
Time to take Leinster finals out of a 3/4 empty Croke Park
Quote from: Capt Pat on June 11, 2023, 06:15:35 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on June 11, 2023, 04:59:43 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 11, 2023, 03:28:58 PM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on June 11, 2023, 03:28:18 PM
That was a definite free in at the end.
Two.
Jaysus that was as clear two fouls there as you'd ever see. Clare robbed there
What was the ref thinking? Usually they are mad for games to finish level and there was 2 perfect opportunities to have a draw. He obviously wanted a Limerick win.
He (referee) was thinking - I should have blown up before this and if Clare Score from the free, I'd have to spend an extra half an hour officiating this madness in the sun!
Quote from: clonadmad on June 11, 2023, 06:33:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 11, 2023, 06:10:13 PM
24,483 low for today's Leinster final or the expected crowd?
Time to take Leinster finals out of a 3/4 empty Croke Park
Which stadium in Leinster, would O'Moore Park be big enough to host 25,000 crowd?
Conor Whelan got man of the match.
https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1667935685720829952
The 10th anniversary of his cousin Niall Donohue will happen in October.
They never got to play on the same Galway team.
Quote from: clonadmad on June 11, 2023, 06:33:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 11, 2023, 06:10:13 PM
24,483 low for today's Leinster final or the expected crowd?
Time to take Leinster finals out of a 3/4 empty Croke Park
Indeed, inflating the admission price price for football matches to compensate for loss makers like this.
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2023, 07:07:20 PM
Conor Whelan got man of the match.
https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1667935685720829952
The 10th anniversary of his cousin Niall Donohue will happen in October.
They never got to play on the same Galway team.
He looked like a boy who was going to fire it against a wall in the changing rooms.
I just think the manner of that defeat will knock the life out of Galway's year, could have been loookh forward to a 4 week break, instead they will have Tipp in two weeks
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 11, 2023, 07:05:31 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 11, 2023, 06:33:40 PM
Quote from: Captain Obvious on June 11, 2023, 06:10:13 PM
24,483 low for today's Leinster final or the expected crowd?
Time to take Leinster finals out of a 3/4 empty Croke Park
Which stadium in Leinster, would O'Moore Park be big enough to host 25,000 crowd?
Nowlan holds 27,500
O'Moore Park 23,000
Tullamore I think now has a capacity of 20,000
Salthill used to have a capacity of 33,000
Probably 30k nowadays
If Kilkenny and Galway were to come up with a home and away agreement like a lot of the Munster counties used to have
It might solve it
The game had everything at the end and it would have been hard to follow the Munster final but an amazing finish..
I hope Clare aren't as gassed as they were last year.
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2023, 09:17:13 PM
I hope Clare aren't as gassed as they were last year.
Dublin could give them a game if they aren't tuned in.
What's the thoughts on Shelfflin in Galway? Heard a few fans chatting on the way out and they weren't overly impressed with his so far.
He didn't lose that game, then couple of lads at the end did.still inexperienced. Manager at County level but Galway aren't overly strong either.
Will he ever manage Kilkenny, I wonder? I have my doubts.
Quote from: seafoid on June 11, 2023, 09:17:13 PM
I hope Clare aren't as gassed as they were last year.
You're a very caring soul Seafoid.
i think people are fed up with same teams in final nearly every year we probably get kilkenny and galway again next year people become apathetic to it is there event that much celebration in Kilkenny town when they win a leinster i think its time provincials were scrapped and have open draw all ireland maybe two groups of 5 or 6 provincial finals could be replace by semi final qualifiers or just put group winners straight into semis.
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 11, 2023, 10:10:37 PM
What's the thoughts on Shelfflin in Galway? Heard a few fans chatting on the way out and they weren't overly impressed with his so far.
I think the challenge is for the medium term. To build a team for the post Limerick era. It's the same in Kilkenny. Neither team is the finished article. There has to be progress every year.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/12/nicky-english-provincial-races-may-be-closed-but-all-ireland-remains-open-season/
(Opens in new window)
Gaelic Games
Nicky English: Provincial races may be run but All-Ireland remains an open bookLimerick again showed how hard they are to beat whereas Galway are not as damaged by Leinster final defeat as last year
Expand
Limerick's Peter Casey collides with Tony Kelly of Clare during the last play of the game. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
Nicky English
Mon Jun 12 2023 - 05:00
I can't say that two extremely close matches in the provincial finals left me any the wiser about the relativities of the remaining teams. But now that they're over and we move on to the All-Ireland, it's looking like open season, a series of matches that will be decided on the day.
In Munster, Limerick didn't necessarily sustain the improvement I thought I saw against Cork. Maybe the heat affected them but they looked heavy-legged.
It's a great achievement by Derek Lyng in his first season and highlighted again the goal threat Kilkenny are bringing to matches.
For Galway this doesn't look terminal in the way last year's Leinster final defeat felt. I think there was a lot like about them. They'll have a big say but it's Kilkenny who go straight to the semi-final.
After the dust has settled I still think Limerick have the highest ceiling even though we haven't really glimpsed it yet but they are so hard to beat if not the foregone conclusions of earlier this year. This is turning into a grinding championship and the champions are accomplished at that.
Overall, though, it's open season as this weekend has again demonstrated
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:29:07 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 11, 2023, 10:10:37 PM
What's the thoughts on Shelfflin in Galway? Heard a few fans chatting on the way out and they weren't overly impressed with his so far.
I think the challenge is for the medium term. To build a team for the post Limerick era. It's the same in Kilkenny. Neither team is the finished article. There has to be progress every year.
The post Limerick era could be in 3/4 years time
Galway haven't progressed under Shefflin
Even more inconsistent than they were before he arrived
Defensive structure very poor
And the Achilles heel of goalkeeping still not resolved
Quote from: sensini on June 11, 2023, 02:50:00 PM
Limerick have this. Have 50 on them and Galway to win.
So close ;D
Dónal Óg on the Galway backs.
https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1668007300853006336
The last bit about kicking the ball to Buckley reminded me of the 2005 final. He was in goal and saved from Hayes I think who was rushing in. He batted the goal to the side. There was no goal .
Clare v Limerick - Clare definitely left it behind, bad wides and shots at bad times killed them. 100% was a free if not two at the very end, but even if had gone to ET I only think there was one winner.
Galway v Kilkenny - Two fragile looking teams, not good news for KK that they are relying on Big Walter to come on and pull them out of the fire. Hard to know what to make of Galway, tonnes of talent but seem to be lacking mentally when it comes to killing the game, had one or two chances offensively to make better decisions at the end and obviously numerous defensive ones in that melee.
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:40:44 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/12/nicky-english-provincial-races-may-be-closed-but-all-ireland-remains-open-season/
(Opens in new window)
Gaelic Games
Nicky English: Provincial races may be run but All-Ireland remains an open bookLimerick again showed how hard they are to beat whereas Galway are not as damaged by Leinster final defeat as last year
Expand
Limerick's Peter Casey collides with Tony Kelly of Clare during the last play of the game. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
Nicky English
Mon Jun 12 2023 - 05:00
I can't say that two extremely close matches in the provincial finals left me any the wiser about the relativities of the remaining teams. But now that they're over and we move on to the All-Ireland, it's looking like open season, a series of matches that will be decided on the day.
In Munster, Limerick didn't necessarily sustain the improvement I thought I saw against Cork. Maybe the heat affected them but they looked heavy-legged.
It's a great achievement by Derek Lyng in his first season and highlighted again the goal threat Kilkenny are bringing to matches.
For Galway this doesn't look terminal in the way last year's Leinster final defeat felt. I think there was a lot like about them. They'll have a big say but it's Kilkenny who go straight to the semi-final.
After the dust has settled I still think Limerick have the highest ceiling even though we haven't really glimpsed it yet but they are so hard to beat if not the foregone conclusions of earlier this year. This is turning into a grinding championship and the champions are accomplished at that.
Overall, though, it's open season as this weekend has again demonstrated
Thanks for posting
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/12/clare-can-find-solace-in-defeat-as-the-numbers-dont-add-up-for-limerick/
If Limerick were an NFL team, the stats junkies would be sizing them up for a takedown. Their five championship matches so far this year have resulted in a two-point win, two one-point wins, a draw and a one-point defeat. Five games, washing out to an aggregate scoring difference in their favour of just three points.
The advanced metrics dudes would not find that kind of thing impressive. Particularly when you compare it to this point in 2022, when Limerick's aggregate scoring difference after their fourth Munster title in a row was +24. They certainly wouldn't look at the numbers and come to the conclusion that Limerick deserve to be odds-on favourites for the All-Ireland.
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 08:36:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:29:07 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 11, 2023, 10:10:37 PM
What's the thoughts on Shelfflin in Galway? Heard a few fans chatting on the way out and they weren't overly impressed with his so far.
I think the challenge is for the medium term. To build a team for the post Limerick era. It's the same in Kilkenny. Neither team is the finished article. There has to be progress every year.
The post Limerick era could be in 3/4 years time
Galway haven't progressed under Shefflin
Even more inconsistent than they were before he arrived
Defensive structure very poor
And the Achilles heel of goalkeeping still not resolved
Let's see how far they get this year.
He is a big improvement on his predecessor. In 2021 they lost to Waterford in the qualifiers.
He has been good at introducing new players. Kilkenny were just as inconsistent yesterday and just as ropey in defence.
And the post Limerick era could start next month.
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 04:16:42 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/12/clare-can-find-solace-in-defeat-as-the-numbers-dont-add-up-for-limerick/
If Limerick were an NFL team, the stats junkies would be sizing them up for a takedown. Their five championship matches so far this year have resulted in a two-point win, two one-point wins, a draw and a one-point defeat. Five games, washing out to an aggregate scoring difference in their favour of just three points.
The advanced metrics dudes would not find that kind of thing impressive. Particularly when you compare it to this point in 2022, when Limerick's aggregate scoring difference after their fourth Munster title in a row was +24. They certainly wouldn't look at the numbers and come to the conclusion that Limerick deserve to be odds-on favourites for the All-Ireland.
Tight margins when you break it down like thst but they still get over the line when it matters. A good break for them and Kilkenny now.
Mullan is a big miss for the Cats and Richie Reid is a great reader of the game from 6. Likes to sit in the pocket and has time now.
TJ got on the board from play yesterday. Game too-ed and flowed and KK had it and then Galway had it. They should have seen it out. I'm sure they're gutted. Galway could have a say yet.
Limerick do what Limerick do. Be interesting to see how Clare respond.
Clare shouldn't be as brónach as last year. They could have won yesterday with more shot discipline. They just need a few tweaks. Last year they gave everything. If they can learn from yesterday they have a great chance.
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 04:21:44 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 08:36:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:29:07 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 11, 2023, 10:10:37 PM
What's the thoughts on Shelfflin in Galway? Heard a few fans chatting on the way out and they weren't overly impressed with his so far.
I think the challenge is for the medium term. To build a team for the post Limerick era. It's the same in Kilkenny. Neither team is the finished article. There has to be progress every year.
The post Limerick era could be in 3/4 years time
Galway haven't progressed under Shefflin
Even more inconsistent than they were before he arrived
Defensive structure very poor
And the Achilles heel of goalkeeping still not resolved
Let's see how far they get this year.
He is a big improvement on his predecessor. In 2021 they lost to Waterford in the qualifiers.
He has been good at introducing new players. Kilkenny were just as inconsistent yesterday and just as ropey in defence.
And the post Limerick era could start next month.
If you have a look at the age profile of Limerick
That era won't finishing any time soon
Compare and contrast with the ages of the key Galway men who are in their 30's
One thing you can never accuse Kilkenny of is inconsistency
Limerick have the same thing as Galway and Kilkenny. Fading in and out. Whichever team fixes it could win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCJblaUkkfc
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 06:20:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 04:21:44 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 08:36:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:29:07 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 11, 2023, 10:10:37 PM
What's the thoughts on Shelfflin in Galway? Heard a few fans chatting on the way out and they weren't overly impressed with his so far.
I think the challenge is for the medium term. To build a team for the post Limerick era. It's the same in Kilkenny. Neither team is the finished article. There has to be progress every year.
The post Limerick era could be in 3/4 years time
Galway haven't progressed under Shefflin
Even more inconsistent than they were before he arrived
Defensive structure very poor
And the Achilles heel of goalkeeping still not resolved
Let's see how far they get this year.
He is a big improvement on his predecessor. In 2021 they lost to Waterford in the qualifiers.
He has been good at introducing new players. Kilkenny were just as inconsistent yesterday and just as ropey in defence.
And the post Limerick era could start next month.
If you have a look at the age profile of Limerick
That era won't finishing any time soon
Compare and contrast with the ages of the key Galway men who are in their 30's
One thing you can never accuse Kilkenny of is inconsistency
Dublin couldn't do it. Kerry couldn't do it. Why would Limerick be different?
You might say Clare are better if they had Cleary or started Morey. Limerick are obviously not as good as they were previous years. I think somebody other than Limerick will win out this year. However they will be favourites all the way. That is just the way it is.
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:40:29 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 06:20:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 04:21:44 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 08:36:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:29:07 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 11, 2023, 10:10:37 PM
What's the thoughts on Shelfflin in Galway? Heard a few fans chatting on the way out and they weren't overly impressed with his so far.
I think the challenge is for the medium term. To build a team for the post Limerick era. It's the same in Kilkenny. Neither team is the finished article. There has to be progress every year.
The post Limerick era could be in 3/4 years time
Galway haven't progressed under Shefflin
Even more inconsistent than they were before he arrived
Defensive structure very poor
And the Achilles heel of goalkeeping still not resolved
Let's see how far they get this year.
He is a big improvement on his predecessor. In 2021 they lost to Waterford in the qualifiers.
He has been good at introducing new players. Kilkenny were just as inconsistent yesterday and just as ropey in defence.
And the post Limerick era could start next month.
If you have a look at the age profile of Limerick
That era won't finishing any time soon
Compare and contrast with the ages of the key Galway men who are in their 30's
One thing you can never accuse Kilkenny of is inconsistency
Dublin couldn't do it. Kerry couldn't do it. Why would Limerick be different?
Did Dublin not do 6 in a row ?
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 10:33:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:40:29 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 06:20:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 04:21:44 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 08:36:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:29:07 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 11, 2023, 10:10:37 PM
What's the thoughts on Shelfflin in Galway? Heard a few fans chatting on the way out and they weren't overly impressed with his so far.
I think the challenge is for the medium term. To build a team for the post Limerick era. It's the same in Kilkenny. Neither team is the finished article. There has to be progress every year.
The post Limerick era could be in 3/4 years time
Galway haven't progressed under Shefflin
Even more inconsistent than they were before he arrived
Defensive structure very poor
And the Achilles heel of goalkeeping still not resolved
Let's see how far they get this year.
He is a big improvement on his predecessor. In 2021 they lost to Waterford in the qualifiers.
He has been good at introducing new players. Kilkenny were just as inconsistent yesterday and just as ropey in defence.
And the post Limerick era could start next month.
If you have a look at the age profile of Limerick
That era won't finishing any time soon
Compare and contrast with the ages of the key Galway men who are in their 30's
One thing you can never accuse Kilkenny of is inconsistency
Dublin couldn't do it. Kerry couldn't do it. Why would Limerick be different?
Did Dublin not do 6 in a row ?
"That era won't finishing any time soon"
The core engine of the Limerick team was identified in a Tony Forrestal tournament for under 14s in 2010. 9 of them were on the All Ireland team in 2018. It all depends how long they stay ahead of the pack. They have a lot of miles on the tachometer.
https://www.youtube.com/live/-SWCRs3sHxc?feature=share
Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2023, 06:15:56 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 10:33:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:40:29 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 06:20:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 04:21:44 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 08:36:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:29:07 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 11, 2023, 10:10:37 PM
What's the thoughts on Shelfflin in Galway? Heard a few fans chatting on the way out and they weren't overly impressed with his so far.
I think the challenge is for the medium term. To build a team for the post Limerick era. It's the same in Kilkenny. Neither team is the finished article. There has to be progress every year.
The post Limerick era could be in 3/4 years time
Galway haven't progressed under Shefflin
Even more inconsistent than they were before he arrived
Defensive structure very poor
And the Achilles heel of goalkeeping still not resolved
Let's see how far they get this year.
He is a big improvement on his predecessor. In 2021 they lost to Waterford in the qualifiers.
He has been good at introducing new players. Kilkenny were just as inconsistent yesterday and just as ropey in defence.
And the post Limerick era could start next month.
If you have a look at the age profile of Limerick
That era won't finishing any time soon
Compare and contrast with the ages of the key Galway men who are in their 30's
One thing you can never accuse Kilkenny of is inconsistency
Dublin couldn't do it. Kerry couldn't do it. Why would Limerick be different?
Did Dublin not do 6 in a row ?
"That era won't finishing any time soon"
The core engine of the Limerick team was identified in a Tony Forrestal tournament for under 14s in 2010. 9 of them were on the All Ireland team in 2018. It all depends how long they stay ahead of the pack. They have a lot of miles on the tachometer.
https://www.youtube.com/live/-SWCRs3sHxc?feature=share
"Dublin couldn't do it"
But Dublin did win a 6 in a row
Did they not ?
Quote from: clonadmad on June 13, 2023, 08:28:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2023, 06:15:56 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 10:33:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:40:29 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 06:20:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 04:21:44 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 08:36:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:29:07 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 11, 2023, 10:10:37 PM
What's the thoughts on Shelfflin in Galway? Heard a few fans chatting on the way out and they weren't overly impressed with his so far.
I think the challenge is for the medium term. To build a team for the post Limerick era. It's the same in Kilkenny. Neither team is the finished article. There has to be progress every year.
The post Limerick era could be in 3/4 years time
Galway haven't progressed under Shefflin
Even more inconsistent than they were before he arrived
Defensive structure very poor
And the Achilles heel of goalkeeping still not resolved
Let's see how far they get this year.
He is a big improvement on his predecessor. In 2021 they lost to Waterford in the qualifiers.
He has been good at introducing new players. Kilkenny were just as inconsistent yesterday and just as ropey in defence.
And the post Limerick era could start next month.
If you have a look at the age profile of Limerick
That era won't finishing any time soon
Compare and contrast with the ages of the key Galway men who are in their 30's
One thing you can never accuse Kilkenny of is inconsistency
Dublin couldn't do it. Kerry couldn't do it. Why would Limerick be different?
Did Dublin not do 6 in a row ?
"That era won't finishing any time soon"
The core engine of the Limerick team was identified in a Tony Forrestal tournament for under 14s in 2010. 9 of them were on the All Ireland team in 2018. It all depends how long they stay ahead of the pack. They have a lot of miles on the tachometer.
https://www.youtube.com/live/-SWCRs3sHxc?feature=share
"Dublin couldn't do it"
But Dublin did win a 6 in a row
Did they not ?
You said they could win 10 in a row. That is impossible.
I would be surprised if Limerick won 6 in a row. Because of 2019.
This year would be the 6 in a row if they hadn't lost in 2019 .
What no team can do is replace a generational team and continue the winning.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/08/read-all-about-it-at-last-the-tuam-stars-who-lit-up-football-in-the-1950s/
"I had only fleeting memories of some of those players playing on bad Kerry teams being given the runaround by Larry Tompkins."
Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2023, 09:08:08 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 13, 2023, 08:28:31 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2023, 06:15:56 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 10:33:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:40:29 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 06:20:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 04:21:44 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 12, 2023, 08:36:55 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 12, 2023, 06:29:07 AM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 11, 2023, 10:10:37 PM
What's the thoughts on Shelfflin in Galway? Heard a few fans chatting on the way out and they weren't overly impressed with his so far.
I think the challenge is for the medium term. To build a team for the post Limerick era. It's the same in Kilkenny. Neither team is the finished article. There has to be progress every year.
The post Limerick era could be in 3/4 years time
Galway haven't progressed under Shefflin
Even more inconsistent than they were before he arrived
Defensive structure very poor
And the Achilles heel of goalkeeping still not resolved
Let's see how far they get this year.
He is a big improvement on his predecessor. In 2021 they lost to Waterford in the qualifiers.
He has been good at introducing new players. Kilkenny were just as inconsistent yesterday and just as ropey in defence.
And the post Limerick era could start next month.
If you have a look at the age profile of Limerick
That era won't finishing any time soon
Compare and contrast with the ages of the key Galway men who are in their 30's
One thing you can never accuse Kilkenny of is inconsistency
Dublin couldn't do it. Kerry couldn't do it. Why would Limerick be different?
Did Dublin not do 6 in a row ?
"That era won't finishing any time soon"
The core engine of the Limerick team was identified in a Tony Forrestal tournament for under 14s in 2010. 9 of them were on the All Ireland team in 2018. It all depends how long they stay ahead of the pack. They have a lot of miles on the tachometer.
https://www.youtube.com/live/-SWCRs3sHxc?feature=share
"Dublin couldn't do it"
But Dublin did win a 6 in a row
Did they not ?
You said they could win 10 in a row. That is impossible.
I would be surprised if Limerick won 6 in a row. Because of 2019.
This year would be the 6 in a row if they hadn't lost in 2019 .
What no team can do is replace a generational team and continue the winning.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/08/read-all-about-it-at-last-the-tuam-stars-who-lit-up-football-in-the-1950s/
"I had only fleeting memories of some of those players playing on bad Kerry teams being given the runaround by Larry Tompkins."
Id take the opinions of a lad that didn't know that Dublin had won 6 in a row with a large dollop of salt
Given the age profile of that Limerick team most of who are only coming into their prime plus the addition of the likes of English and Coughlin
There's a few more All Irelands in them before Galway start their long heralded dominance
The nature of team sport is that teams dominate and then are replaced by other teams.
Limerick 's winning margins this year are lower than last year.
But carry on.
They won the munster final in normal time this year...
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/12/clare-can-find-solace-in-defeat-as-the-numbers-dont-add-up-for-limerick/
Their five championship matches so far this year have resulted in a two-point win, two one-point wins, a draw and a one-point defeat. Five games, washing out to an aggregate scoring difference in their favour of just three points.
The advanced metrics dudes would not find that kind of thing impressive. Particularly when you compare it to this point in 2022, when Limerick's aggregate scoring difference after their fourth Munster title in a row was +24
That was when they had Sean Finn, Cian Lynch and Peter Casey all fit...
Is that factored into advanced stats?
Their dominance, like anyone's, will end at some point but they're a bloody good team and young so they will be there or thereabouts for a good while.
However how that was not given as a free to Clare just at the end of that game I will never know
We can say their margin of victory has reduced and that is not up for argument but they always seem to find a way, be that a one or two point victory. They are so hard to put away and are a great team obviously.
Quote from: seafoid on June 13, 2023, 11:03:47 AM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/12/clare-can-find-solace-in-defeat-as-the-numbers-dont-add-up-for-limerick/
Their five championship matches so far this year have resulted in a two-point win, two one-point wins, a draw and a one-point defeat. Five games, washing out to an aggregate scoring difference in their favour of just three points.
The advanced metrics dudes would not find that kind of thing impressive. Particularly when you compare it to this point in 2022, when Limerick's aggregate scoring difference after their fourth Munster title in a row was +24
Kiely has managed them to 12 finals
And won every one of them
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 13, 2023, 11:16:59 AM
That was when they had Sean Finn, Cian Lynch and Peter Casey all fit...
Is that factored into advanced stats?
Their dominance, like anyone's, will end at some point but they're a bloody good team and young so they will be there or thereabouts for a good while.
However how that was not given as a free to Clare just at the end of that game I will never know
Clare shouldn't have needed that free to draw level
They should have been 4/5/6 points ahead and it over
44 shots at goal 23 on target
Just over a 50% conversion rate
8 balls dropped short into Nickie Quaids hands
A rookie full back getting destroyed,on a yellow after 20 mins which hampered the full back even further
Morey and Paul Flanagan sitting on the bench
They also haven't developed a top end free taker unlike nearly every other county
They can focus on that free all they want and it should have been given but the roots of their demise run much deeper
Heh. They'd probably have missed it, anyway!!
The atmosphere after the match was mad
https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1667906667646689281
Larry McCarthy has intimated that the Munster and Leinster SHC finals will be played on separate days from next year onwards.
Both finals were played back-to-back last Sunday, with McCarthy conceding that the arrangement wasn't ideal.
"I think we will look at it," the GAA president said after the Tailteann Cup quarter-final draw on RTÉ Radio's Morning Ireland.
"Having the two of them on the one day is not optimal for us. it could be changed for next season. We'll get the CCCC to look at it."
Quote from: Eire90 on June 14, 2023, 07:18:23 AM
Larry McCarthy has intimated that the Munster and Leinster SHC finals will be played on separate days from next year onwards.
Both finals were played back-to-back last Sunday, with McCarthy conceding that the arrangement wasn't ideal.
"I think we will look at it," the GAA president said after the Tailteann Cup quarter-final draw on RTÉ Radio's Morning Ireland.
"Having the two of them on the one day is not optimal for us. it could be changed for next season. We'll get the CCCC to look at it."
the Munster Final should be played after the Leinster final
would that be a saturday-sunday then and they could alternate years id actually love if they did that with football and hurling all ireland finals.
Quote from: Eire90 on June 14, 2023, 07:21:37 AM
would that be a saturday-sunday then and they could alternate years id actually love if they did that with football and hurling all ireland finals.
I think they do it for the semi-finals. One on the Saturday and one on the Sunday.
Quote from: Eire90 on June 14, 2023, 07:18:23 AM
Larry McCarthy has intimated that the Munster and Leinster SHC finals will be played on separate days from next year onwards.
Both finals were played back-to-back last Sunday, with McCarthy conceding that the arrangement wasn't ideal.
"I think we will look at it," the GAA president said after the Tailteann Cup quarter-final draw on RTÉ Radio's Morning Ireland.
"Having the two of them on the one day is not optimal for us. it could be changed for next season. We'll get the CCCC to look at it."
That's already been agreed starting next year
One on the Saturday evening the other on the Sunday
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/14/sean-moran-the-munster-hurling-championship-has-been-great-but-can-it-continue/
Would it be fairer for Munster teams if the round-robin groups mixed according to seeding? Of course, but then we would end up with two identical league competitions, one after the other.
There is another compelling reason why it won't happen. Munster have had a fantastic year at the box office. In his welcoming address for Sunday's programme, provincial chair Ger Ryan pinpointed the reason why Munster hurling is unlikely to be tampered with.
"We have had great crowds at our games this year and by throw-in time today, total attendances of this year's senior hurling championship will exceed 300,000," Ryan said.
That adds up to a staggering average attendance of 27,288 per match. When you consider the misgivings – justified in the football championship – about the round-robin format and its traditional impact on attendances, that's an astonishing figure, especially as it includes Waterford's doomed fixture list.
It means the average crowd in Munster was nearly 3,000 greater than the Leinster final, which was itself the best attended match in the province by a distance.
Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2023, 03:51:15 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/14/sean-moran-the-munster-hurling-championship-has-been-great-but-can-it-continue/
Would it be fairer for Munster teams if the round-robin groups mixed according to seeding? Of course, but then we would end up with two identical league competitions, one after the other.
There is another compelling reason why it won't happen. Munster have had a fantastic year at the box office. In his welcoming address for Sunday's programme, provincial chair Ger Ryan pinpointed the reason why Munster hurling is unlikely to be tampered with.
"We have had great crowds at our games this year and by throw-in time today, total attendances of this year's senior hurling championship will exceed 300,000," Ryan said.
That adds up to a staggering average attendance of 27,288 per match. When you consider the misgivings – justified in the football championship – about the round-robin format and its traditional impact on attendances, that's an astonishing figure, especially as it includes Waterford's doomed fixture list.
It means the average crowd in Munster was nearly 3,000 greater than the Leinster final, which was itself the best attended match in the province by a distance.
An average of over 27, 000 is some going.
Quote from: marty34 on June 14, 2023, 06:19:26 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 14, 2023, 03:51:15 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/14/sean-moran-the-munster-hurling-championship-has-been-great-but-can-it-continue/
Would it be fairer for Munster teams if the round-robin groups mixed according to seeding? Of course, but then we would end up with two identical league competitions, one after the other.
There is another compelling reason why it won't happen. Munster have had a fantastic year at the box office. In his welcoming address for Sunday's programme, provincial chair Ger Ryan pinpointed the reason why Munster hurling is unlikely to be tampered with.
"We have had great crowds at our games this year and by throw-in time today, total attendances of this year's senior hurling championship will exceed 300,000," Ryan said.
That adds up to a staggering average attendance of 27,288 per match. When you consider the misgivings – justified in the football championship – about the round-robin format and its traditional impact on attendances, that's an astonishing figure, especially as it includes Waterford's doomed fixture list.
It means the average crowd in Munster was nearly 3,000 greater than the Leinster final, which was itself the best attended match in the province by a distance.
An average of over 27, 000 is some going.
It probably would have broken 30,000 if Waterford had gotten the win in round 1
The problem in Leinster at the moment is that Offaly and Wexford are well off the pace and Dublin needs a few years to get back to the pace.
Maybe Waterford could be transferred or swapped with Wexford for few years.
Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2023, 09:41:32 AM
The problem in Leinster at the moment is that Offaly and Wexford are well off the pace and Dublin needs a few years to get back to the pace.
Maybe Waterford could be transferred or swapped with Wexford for few years.
There's no cut and thrust in Leinster, anyone with an inkling of an idea in hurling had a Leinster final of Galway v Kilkenny, that never really looked in any doubt.
In Munster we'd Limerick on the cusp of going out on the last day with Tipp only having to beat Waterford to get a berth in the Munster final, and with Tipp failing to beat Waterford there was a chance of Cork and Limerick both going through at Tipps expense if they managed to draw, Limerick only won by a point to get an unexpected Munster final berth.
That keeps the public engaged all the way through, Leinster need Wexford and Dublin cutting lumps out of the other two on a consistent basis.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 15, 2023, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2023, 09:41:32 AM
The problem in Leinster at the moment is that Offaly and Wexford are well off the pace and Dublin needs a few years to get back to the pace.
Maybe Waterford could be transferred or swapped with Wexford for few years.
There's no cut and thrust in Leinster, anyone with an inkling of an idea in hurling had a Leinster final of Galway v Kilkenny, that never really looked in any doubt.
In Munster we'd Limerick on the cusp of going out on the last day with Tipp only having to beat Waterford to get a berth in the Munster final, and with Tipp failing to beat Waterford there was a chance of Cork and Limerick both going through at Tipps expense if they managed to draw, Limerick only won by a point to get an unexpected Munster final berth.
That keeps the public engaged all the way through, Leinster need Wexford and Dublin cutting lumps out of the other two on a consistent basis.
Leinster needs 5 decent teams so it needs Offaly as well.
Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2023, 11:58:18 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 15, 2023, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2023, 09:41:32 AM
The problem in Leinster at the moment is that Offaly and Wexford are well off the pace and Dublin needs a few years to get back to the pace.
Maybe Waterford could be transferred or swapped with Wexford for few years.
There's no cut and thrust in Leinster, anyone with an inkling of an idea in hurling had a Leinster final of Galway v Kilkenny, that never really looked in any doubt.
In Munster we'd Limerick on the cusp of going out on the last day with Tipp only having to beat Waterford to get a berth in the Munster final, and with Tipp failing to beat Waterford there was a chance of Cork and Limerick both going through at Tipps expense if they managed to draw, Limerick only won by a point to get an unexpected Munster final berth.
That keeps the public engaged all the way through, Leinster need Wexford and Dublin cutting lumps out of the other two on a consistent basis.
Leinster needs 5 decent teams so it needs Offaly as well.
Indeed, but Offaly are going to find out this weekend that they're a good bit off the pace currently.
Why do they need Offaly?
Why do they not need Carlow? Or Laois? Or Westmeath? Or Antrim? etc...
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 15, 2023, 12:15:27 PM
Why do they need Offaly?
Why do they not need Carlow? Or Laois? Or Westmeath? Or Antrim? etc...
The more the better. Offaly are making their way back. Hurling needs a plan for Antrim, Laois etc.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 15, 2023, 12:06:22 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2023, 11:58:18 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 15, 2023, 10:28:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2023, 09:41:32 AM
The problem in Leinster at the moment is that Offaly and Wexford are well off the pace and Dublin needs a few years to get back to the pace.
Maybe Waterford could be transferred or swapped with Wexford for few years.
There's no cut and thrust in Leinster, anyone with an inkling of an idea in hurling had a Leinster final of Galway v Kilkenny, that never really looked in any doubt.
In Munster we'd Limerick on the cusp of going out on the last day with Tipp only having to beat Waterford to get a berth in the Munster final, and with Tipp failing to beat Waterford there was a chance of Cork and Limerick both going through at Tipps expense if they managed to draw, Limerick only won by a point to get an unexpected Munster final berth.
That keeps the public engaged all the way through, Leinster need Wexford and Dublin cutting lumps out of the other two on a consistent basis.
Leinster needs 5 decent teams so it needs Offaly as well.
Indeed, but Offaly are going to find out this weekend that they're a good bit off the pace currently.
How much time do you think they need? 5-7 years ?
How many hurlers are there in Belfast ? What would be the split between Down and Antrim ?
Hurling this year is very exciting but for the endgame there are only really 6 teams at a similar level. Waterford and Wexford are in a slump, Dublin are rebuilding and there is a gap to the chasers.
Belfast teams have won one antrim championship this century(IIRC) and the down belfast team look like they're getting relegated to antrim division three...
Hurling can be reintroduced to places . Belfast is an underused asset for Antrim and Down where the hurling footprint is the problem.
Laois is different https://youtu.be/D8sTmXpgBS0&t=5220s
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 15, 2023, 02:56:01 PM
Belfast teams have won one antrim championship this century(IIRC) and the down belfast team look like they're getting relegated to antrim division three...
See that, a bit surprised by that TBH but their Down neighbours (Is Carryduff still Belfast?) have consolidated their stay in Div2.
I'd say it's at least an 90/10 split towards Antrim in terms of adult hurlers in Belfast, probably more maybe.
WRT Antrim, when was the last time an Antrim team won an A grade underage hurling title?
Offaly need to keep building on their 2022 minors and 2023 U20's of which there's a big overlap, so you can't put a timeframe on how long it'll take, but it'll need to be a sustained effort to the standard of those two teams and Leo O'Connor, a Limerick man, can't do everything.
Quote from: seafoid on June 15, 2023, 03:01:12 PM
Hurling can be reintroduced to places . Belfast is an underused asset for Antrim and Down where the hurling footprint is the problem.
Laois is different https://youtu.be/D8sTmXpgBS0&t=5220s
I don't want to speak ill of the dead
But Teddy was a disaster as Laois manager,I could give 4/5 shocking examples but I won't
Some of what he spoke about as regards player buy isn't an issue with the likes of Willie Maher
Quote from: johnnycool on June 15, 2023, 03:06:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 15, 2023, 02:56:01 PM
Belfast teams have won one antrim championship this century(IIRC) and the down belfast team look like they're getting relegated to antrim division three...
See that, a bit surprised by that TBH but their Down neighbours (Is Carryduff still Belfast?) have consolidated their stay in Div2.
I'd say it's at least an 90/10 split towards Antrim in terms of adult hurlers in Belfast, probably more maybe.
WRT Antrim, when was the last time an Antrim team won an A grade underage hurling title?
Offaly need to keep building on their 2022 minors and 2023 U20's of which there's a big overlap, so you can't put a timeframe on how long it'll take, but it'll need to be a sustained effort to the standard of those two teams and Leo O'Connor, a Limerick man, can't do everything.
A grade as in AI A grade? Not in my lifetime and questionable if ever unless I have missed a big chunk of history... Club the only A grade we have been particularly successful at.
Carryduff do seem to be improving a lot. Surprised about Bredagh as some of your neighbours told me he reckoned it wouldn't be that long before they won a down title.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 15, 2023, 03:15:20 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 15, 2023, 03:06:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 15, 2023, 02:56:01 PM
Belfast teams have won one antrim championship this century(IIRC) and the down belfast team look like they're getting relegated to antrim division three...
See that, a bit surprised by that TBH but their Down neighbours (Is Carryduff still Belfast?) have consolidated their stay in Div2.
I'd say it's at least an 90/10 split towards Antrim in terms of adult hurlers in Belfast, probably more maybe.
WRT Antrim, when was the last time an Antrim team won an A grade underage hurling title?
Offaly need to keep building on their 2022 minors and 2023 U20's of which there's a big overlap, so you can't put a timeframe on how long it'll take, but it'll need to be a sustained effort to the standard of those two teams and Leo O'Connor, a Limerick man, can't do everything.
A grade as in AI A grade? Not in my lifetime and questionable if ever unless I have missed a big chunk of history... Club the only A grade we have been particularly successful at.
Carryduff do seem to be improving a lot. Surprised about Bredagh as some of your neighbours told me he reckoned it wouldn't be that long before they won a down title.
Think quite a few Bredagh players went to Australia, they were strong last year
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 15, 2023, 03:58:38 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 15, 2023, 03:15:20 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 15, 2023, 03:06:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 15, 2023, 02:56:01 PM
Belfast teams have won one antrim championship this century(IIRC) and the down belfast team look like they're getting relegated to antrim division three...
See that, a bit surprised by that TBH but their Down neighbours (Is Carryduff still Belfast?) have consolidated their stay in Div2.
I'd say it's at least an 90/10 split towards Antrim in terms of adult hurlers in Belfast, probably more maybe.
WRT Antrim, when was the last time an Antrim team won an A grade underage hurling title?
Offaly need to keep building on their 2022 minors and 2023 U20's of which there's a big overlap, so you can't put a timeframe on how long it'll take, but it'll need to be a sustained effort to the standard of those two teams and Leo O'Connor, a Limerick man, can't do everything.
A grade as in AI A grade? Not in my lifetime and questionable if ever unless I have missed a big chunk of history... Club the only A grade we have been particularly successful at.
Carryduff do seem to be improving a lot. Surprised about Bredagh as some of your neighbours told me he reckoned it wouldn't be that long before they won a down title.
Think quite a few Bredagh players went to Australia, they were strong last year
They were pushing for promotion last year and had some very good underage hurlers coming through their ranks so that's disappointing..
Quote from: johnnycool on June 15, 2023, 03:06:27 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 15, 2023, 02:56:01 PM
Belfast teams have won one antrim championship this century(IIRC) and the down belfast team look like they're getting relegated to antrim division three...
See that, a bit surprised by that TBH but their Down neighbours (Is Carryduff still Belfast?) have consolidated their stay in Div2.
I'd say it's at least an 90/10 split towards Antrim in terms of adult hurlers in Belfast, probably more maybe.
WRT Antrim, when was the last time an Antrim team won an A grade underage hurling title?
Offaly need to keep building on their 2022 minors and 2023 U20's of which there's a big overlap, so you can't put a timeframe on how long it'll take, but it'll need to be a sustained effort to the standard of those two teams and Leo O'Connor, a Limerick man, can't do everything.
It all comes from the clubs first. That where the real work goes in. County coaches and managers can only work with what they've got coming through at 15, 16 and 17.
TIPPERARY (SHC v Offaly): Rhys Shelly; Eoghan Connolly, Michael Breen, Craig Morgan; Bryan O'Mara, Ronan Maher, Dan McCormack; Conor Stakelum, Noel McGrath; Alan Tynan, Jason Forde, Séamus Kennedy; Jake Morris, Séamus Callanan, Mark Kehoe.
Subs: Barry Hogan, John Campion, Pauric Campion, Joe Fogarty, Enda Heffernan, John McGrath, Gearóid O'Connor, Niall O'Meara, Jack Ryan, Johnny Ryan, Seán Ryan.
OFFALY: Stephen Corcoran; Ben Conneely, Ciarán Burke, David King; Jack Clancy, Jason Sampson, Killian Sampson; Eimhin Kelly, Sam Bourke; Brian Duignan, Eoghan Cahill, Adrian Cleary; Cillian Kiely, Paddy Clancy, Charlue Mitchell.
Subs: Eamon Cleary, Paddy Delaney, Eoghan Parlon, Liam Langton, John Murphy, James Nally, Conor Langton, Cathal O'Meara, Joe Hoctor, Cathal King, Ross Ravenhill.
Tipp flying under the radar, should dispatch Offaly without much effort and be ready to give Galway a right rattle in the QF.
Dublin might get a sterner test down in Dr Cullen park if they're not zoned it, physical outfit Carlow who won't spare the ash.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 16, 2023, 04:07:44 PM
Tipp flying under the radar, should dispatch Offaly without much effort and be ready to give Galway a right rattle in the QF.
Dublin might get a sterner test down in Dr Cullen park if they're not zoned it, physical outfit Carlow who won't spare the ash.
Tipp are priced to beat Galway. That's fantastic motivation for Galway if they can sort out the backs.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0616/1389476-donal-og-cusacks-hurling-nation-time-for-real-change/
Groups of heroic volunteers in the so-called weaker hurling counties put together the odd good team and keep hope alive. What help do they get from the GAA leadership?
They need finance and guidance for academies and career pathways, specialised hurling coaches arriving like missionaries, regional hurling centres, shared expertise for developing partnerships with local businesses to help the funding of hurling, twinning mentoring arrangements with stronger counties, a guarantee of immunity from relegation for two or three years when Carlow make the Leinster championship. And that's just for starters.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/17/referees-in-a-tough-position-as-hurlings-high-wire-act-continues/Referees in a tough position as hurling's high wire act continuesAre rule changes needed to check the rampant physicality of the modern game which is making life increasingly difficult for match officials
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Shane O'Donnell of Clare comes under pressure from Limerick's Colin Coughlan and Kyle Hayes during the fiercely-contested Munster final at the TUS Gaelic Grounds, Limerick. Photograph: Laszlo Geczo/Inpho
Denis Walsh
Sat Jun 17 2023 - 05:00
Exhibit A: a random sample. About nine minutes into the Munster hurling final there were four fouls in the space of 11 seconds. One of them was a late shoulder into the chest of a player who had spilled the ball; the other three infringements involved pushing and pulling at the arms and upper body of a player in possession. Nobody went down, nobody stopped, nobody looked for a free, nobody batted an eyelid. Man and ball kept moving, as if nothing had happened.
Maybe nobody noticed except the referee. After the third or fourth infringement Liam Gordon raised his arm to indicate that he was playing an advantage, trying not to interfere, but conscious that he was the regulator. By then Ryan Taylor had escaped the sniper's alley and was running loose in open field.
By the time he found Shane O'Donnell with a pass, Gordon had lowered his arm. Just before he drove the ball over the bar O'Donnell was fouled too, but the score stood. No free. The fouls were blended into the sauce of a hot dish; nobody cared if they were eating chilli or capers, and nobody was bothered about allergies.
Barry Kelly, the former intercounty referee, was in Croke Park, watching the Munster final on the big screen in the stadium, sitting alongside a bunch of other retired referees.
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"One of them just said to me, 'It's much tougher than it was – four of five times tougher than it was [to referee an inter county hurling game]'. It's only nine years since my last All-Ireland final [2014] but it was a joy to referee. I did three semi-finals with Galway and Tipp in 2015, '16 and '17, all one point games, and they were fantastic matches [to referee]. That's only six years ago.
"There was more mano-a-mano stuff, even then. Now, the play is condensed. There's far more physicality, there are far more hits, the possession game has gone to a new level. For years, among the national referees, we used look on at whatever the opposite of envy is at the football referees and what they were refereeing. Dog eat dog stuff. I would think now that football has gone very passive and very lateral. A hurling game at the highest level now is as hard if not harder to referee than a game of football – and I would never have said that.
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Referee Liam Gordon during the Munster final at the TUS Gaelic Grounds in Limerick. Photograph: Laszlo Geczo/Inpho
"I got loads of texts about Liam Gordon not awarding the free [to Clare in the last minute] and my stock answer was, 'I do not envy anybody trying to referee modern day hurling'. The standard of hurling is phenomenal, the skill levels are gone off the scale, but it's a far, far harder game than I refereed."
Intercounty referees are sent a rule book at the beginning of the season, but up to a couple of years ago they used to receive an exhaustive 80 page handbook. One page was devoted to a checklist of match-day logistics, alpha to omega. Among the 23 items listed was a reminder to bring a coin for the toss and a straight-faced directive to "referee the game in accordance with the rules".
But how, exactly? The way hurling is being played at elite levels has changed so much over the last five or six years that the rule book hasn't been able to keep up. The body-shape of players, the emphasis on power-plays, greater clustering in the middle third, the prevalence of swarm tackling and the viral spread of rucks have made elements of the game impossible to referee except by gut reaction and guessing.
In a ruck, when there are half a dozen players hunched like workmen over a manhole, how is a referee supposed to decipher which player made the first illegal contact? In those situations nobody is making a shoulder charge, hip to hip, which is the only physical tackle defined in the rule book. But everybody is doing something to shift somebody else out of the way. So, does the referee allow the ruck to play itself out, knowing full well that infringements are taking place?
"Apply the rules, that's fine," says Willie Barrett, who was an intercounty referee for nearly 20 years, and mentors elite referees now.
"But then, let's see what everyone is talking about on Monday morning? The number of frees. No one wants to see a situation where there are 50 or 60 frees in a match. No referee wants to be the centre of attention. Striking a balance is challenging, to say the least."
It was easier when most duels for the ball were just between two players, and the ball spent more time in open dispute. In that environment, hooking, blocking and flicking were clean and dynamic ways for possession to change hands. Those skills, though, have been marginalised. Players are so conditioned to recycle the ball in tight situations now that throwing it up and swinging hard is the last thing on their minds. Most strikes on the ball are made in space, after a quick set-up, like the spike in volleyball.
In other situations, players are drilled to run at opponents and break the tackle. But what kind of "tackle" are they breaking? It is not a foul to meet an oncoming player with an outstretched arm, but it is a foul as soon as that arm makes a holding motion. Most players will not be stopped by that kind of contact, and because they can usually break through, the referee will ordinarily not blow for a foul.
In that way an infringement has entered the bloodstream of the game, championed by common practice. Coaches and players know that this boundary has been pushed so that kind of tackling is coached now: players are met with body hits and strong arms to the upper body in the hope of slowing them down, or forcing a turnover.
"If somebody is running at you, what options do you have?" says Dickie Murphy, the former intercounty referee. "If you go to the rule book you have the shoulder-to-shoulder or the flick. But there's very little. The tackle that a fella is breaking, is it a legal tackle? Probably not. At times it's like rugby with hurls. But if you start blowing for everything it gets on everyone's nerves."
In that kind of contact zone, the risk for the player in possession is to be accused of charging.
"You watch the warm-ups before games and in a lot of cases there's charging going on," says Johnny Ryan, the Munster referees co-ordinator and a former intercounty referee. "They're taking the ball into contact and they're charging."
The way the game is played now requires a lot of consent. If players weren't prepared to absorb the hits and carry on, the game would descend into anarchy. More than that, players don't expect full protection from the rules. They understand that hurling, at elite level, is played in a blurred area between permissiveness and policing.
Brian Gavin with Tipperary's Brendan Maher and Kilkenny's JJ Delaney ahead of the 2014 All-Ireland hurling final replay. 'No way would the modern game suit my style of refereeing. It just became very difficult,' says Gavin. Photograph: Inpho
Brian Gavin stepped down from intercounty refereeing in 2017, partly because of the direction the game was taking at elite level. Without being a slave to the whistle, his style was to let the game flow. That took intuition and confidence and fine judgement. That approach wasn't in the manual, but most players liked it and a lot of the time it worked. In the modern game, though, he wondered how it would fly.
"You have to be able to reel it out and reel it back," he says. "You can only let it go when you feel you're in control of the game and you get that vibe. A lot of referees don't get that vibe because they don't have that natural instinct. I could nearly know when a game was getting out of control.
"But no way would the modern game suit my style of refereeing. It just became very difficult. You could have eight or ten lads around the ball. Some plays were just impossible to ref. It wouldn't suit me now."
When big calls are missed in real-time by referees the question of television match officials often comes up. Professional soccer and rugby have learned to lean on that technological crutch, and the GAA have taken a tentative step down that road with Hawkeye in Croke Park and Thurles.
In his speech to GAA Congress in February the GAA president Larry McCarthy announced the formation of a work group that would explore the practicalities of such an approach in the GAA. He chose his words carefully, cautioning that the "the free-flowing nature of hurling and football may be less conducive to the use of technology than more stop-start sports". Still he was prepared to take a look.
Johnny Ryan is on that committee. In recent weeks the work group used the Dublin-Kildare game in Nowlan Park as a field exercise, and he will be in the Gaelic Grounds tomorrow in the same capacity for the Mayo v Cork game, watching the game from screens in the TV production van.
One of the key issues is the scale of the coverage. For the Champions League final last week, for example, there were 49 cameras in use; for the Champions Cup final in rugby there were 36 cameras; for the URC final there were 33.
For the All-Ireland finals in Croke Park, though, there are just 13 cameras, and for normal live broadcasts around the country that number falls to between seven and nine.
GAAGO are covering the Offaly v Tipperary game in Tullamore today with just one main camera and a couple of roving cameras. That level of coverage would be insufficient to support a Television Match Official. The work group will bring a report to the last Central Council meeting of the year, but these are baby steps towards something that might never happen.
In any case, that won't change how hurling is played now or refereed. Will there be rule changes? What rules? And in that case, would there be more frees? Does anybody want more frees? Only if you're a point down in the last second.
The high wire act continues. Don't look down.
'Kilkenny don't give a sh*t who they play' | Limerick turn into a different animal in Croke Park
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJKqDMd7ZNQ
Well written piece by the ref's. Managing the game would be correct in most games, players need to understand styles of refereeing from the various refs out there.
You can sanitise the shit right out of the game if you want, but it will make for poor viewing
There is one physical tackle allowed in both codes, shoulder to shoulder, any other physical tackle is a foul.
Referee it to that standard and you'll see plenty walking away from it.
Half time in O'Connor Park
Offaly 1-10 Tipperary 3-25
Tipp doing what the are meant to do. Think a pity penalty call with black card for Offaly given, but Tipp don't look like slowing down
McDonagh Cup should be the McDonagh Cup and that's it. Finish it later, don't condense it and don't be putting them in to play in the McCarthy Cup. Don't be taking the good out of the Competition.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 17, 2023, 05:16:13 PM
McDonagh Cup should be the McDonagh Cup and that's it. Finish it later, don't condense it and don't be putting them in to play in the McCarthy Cup. Don't be taking the good out of the Competition.
That's a fair enough point, only Laois have actually progressed with this system.
Offaly though will be playing Div 1 opponents next season and this will let them know where they are at in preparation for next year and beyond, physically fitness wise they'll need to get to a level that'll they'll compete with Westmeath and Antrim and look to improve on games like this.
The lighting has obviously struck the signal there
Result Offaly 3-18 Tipperary 7-38. According to GAA_Stats 7-38 (59 points) highest team score in All-Ireland senior hurling championship history and it was the first game to break 80 points in All-Ireland SHC.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 17, 2023, 05:16:13 PM
McDonagh Cup should be the McDonagh Cup and that's it. Finish it later, don't condense it and don't be putting them in to play in the McCarthy Cup. Don't be taking the good out of the Competition.
Should be just the winners go through and they play the 3rd team in Leinster. Hard for Offaly or any team to pick themselves up after loosing the Joe Mac final and throw them in against a battle hardened Munster team. But there shroud be a route in for the winners and give teams a stepping stone up. They have to try grow the game rather than keeping in a closed club for a few teams.
On that, and it's only half time, Carlow are winning against Dublin by a point 0-13 to 0-12
so being competitive at the minute
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 17, 2023, 05:16:13 PM
McDonagh Cup should be the McDonagh Cup and that's it. Finish it later, don't condense it and don't be putting them in to play in the McCarthy Cup. Don't be taking the good out of the Competition.
Hard to please everyone isnt it. Not long since I heard that all teams in the country should be entitled to a chance to win Liam Mac in a given year. Id wager that no sooner would this option be removed there would be cries to bring it back the following year.
Quote from: didlyi on June 17, 2023, 11:16:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 17, 2023, 05:16:13 PM
McDonagh Cup should be the McDonagh Cup and that's it. Finish it later, don't condense it and don't be putting them in to play in the McCarthy Cup. Don't be taking the good out of the Competition.
Hard to please everyone isnt it. Not long since I heard that all teams in the country should be entitled to a chance to win Liam Mac in a given year. Id wager that no sooner would this option be removed there would be cries to bring it back the following year.
What do we want hurling to be? Realistically this year there are only 6 serious teams
sorry Dublin, Waterford, Wexford, Antrim and Westmeath
https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1670197080495882240
Quote from: seafoid on June 18, 2023, 12:08:11 PM
Quote from: didlyi on June 17, 2023, 11:16:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 17, 2023, 05:16:13 PM
McDonagh Cup should be the McDonagh Cup and that's it. Finish it later, don't condense it and don't be putting them in to play in the McCarthy Cup. Don't be taking the good out of the Competition.
Hard to please everyone isnt it. Not long since I heard that all teams in the country should be entitled to a chance to win Liam Mac in a given year. Id wager that no sooner would this option be removed there would be cries to bring it back the following year.
What do we want hurling to be? Realistically this year there are only 6 serious teams
sorry Dublin, Waterford, Wexford, Antrim and Westmeath
https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1670197080495882240
Realistically in football, there really is only 6? Contenders? Sorry the other 26 counties
Realistically there is less than six. Football and hurling not much different for potential winners.
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 18, 2023, 05:20:00 PM
Realistically there is less than six. Football and hurling not much different for potential winners.
I'm humouring him! ;)
Quote from: seafoid on June 18, 2023, 12:08:11 PM
Quote from: didlyi on June 17, 2023, 11:16:40 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 17, 2023, 05:16:13 PM
McDonagh Cup should be the McDonagh Cup and that's it. Finish it later, don't condense it and don't be putting them in to play in the McCarthy Cup. Don't be taking the good out of the Competition.
Hard to please everyone isnt it. Not long since I heard that all teams in the country should be entitled to a chance to win Liam Mac in a given year. Id wager that no sooner would this option be removed there would be cries to bring it back the following year.
What do we want hurling to be? Realistically this year there are only 6 serious teams
sorry Dublin, Waterford, Wexford, Antrim and Westmeath
https://twitter.com/TheSundayGame/status/1670197080495882240
You didnt include Cork in the 6 or those you apologized to
beaten by a point by Limerick and if the result had been reversed they would have been one of the 3 coming out of Munster
Dublin drew with Galway
Waterford should have beaten Limerick in round 1 and gave Tipp a lesson
Wexford bet Kilkenny
Westmeath bet Wexford
Antrim drew with Dublin
the challenge for the bottom 4 of the 11 in the Championship is to putting in consistently strong performance's across the Championship
Venues for the two QFs announced today I assume ?
Double header in Nowlan Park or Limerick Gaelic Grounds, Cork have a home football game on so that ruled out.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 19, 2023, 12:35:40 PM
Double header in Nowlan Park or Limerick Gaelic Grounds, Cork have a home football game on so that ruled out.
Nowlan not a runner
Capacity 27,500
Is Croke not an option ?
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 19, 2023, 12:57:37 PM
Is Croke not an option ?
The logical choice would
Tipp v Galway in Limerick
Clare v Dublin in Portlaoise
There's nothing to gained by having a double header in a half or even third full Croke Park and dragging 2 counties from the west across the country to Dublin
Quote from: clonadmad on June 19, 2023, 01:41:34 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 19, 2023, 12:57:37 PM
Is Croke not an option ?
The logical choice would
Tipp v Galway in Limerick
Clare v Dublin in Portlaoise
There's nothing to gained by having a double header in a half or even third full Croke Park and dragging 2 counties from the west across the country to Dublin
Galway and Dublin will struggle to win these games. Could be tight at times but feel Tipp and Clare will pull away with 10 minutes to go
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2023, 02:36:46 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 19, 2023, 01:41:34 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 19, 2023, 12:57:37 PM
Is Croke not an option ?
The logical choice would
Tipp v Galway in Limerick
Clare v Dublin in Portlaoise
There's nothing to gained by having a double header in a half or even third full Croke Park and dragging 2 counties from the west across the country to Dublin
Galway and Dublin will struggle to win these games. Could be tight at times but feel Tipp and Clare will pull away with 10 minutes to go
How did Tipp play in last year's All Ireland semi final ?
Galway's last showing wouldn't fill anyone with confidence at all. I would expect Tipp to win comfortably unless Shefflin can get a huge reaction out of them. Can't see it to be honest.
Clare will have too many for Dublin as well, if they can get through relatively easy it should help tee them up for a semi final.
Quote from: NAG1 on June 19, 2023, 03:12:56 PM
Galway's last showing wouldn't fill anyone with confidence at all. I would expect Tipp to win comfortably unless Shefflin can get a huge reaction out of them. Can't see it to be honest.
Clare will have too many for Dublin as well, if they can get through relatively easy it should help tee them up for a semi final.
Tipp won one match in Munster. That's one more than last year.
The brand is worth more than the hurling
Galway are a massive disappointment SF. I like Galway but they should be doing so much better than what they are and tbh far too often that seems to have been the case over the years.
That said Tipp games always seem to put fire in their belly so if they have anything in them this is the game for them...
Quote from: seafoid on June 19, 2023, 03:15:49 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 19, 2023, 03:12:56 PM
Galway's last showing wouldn't fill anyone with confidence at all. I would expect Tipp to win comfortably unless Shefflin can get a huge reaction out of them. Can't see it to be honest.
Clare will have too many for Dublin as well, if they can get through relatively easy it should help tee them up for a semi final.
Tipp won one match in Munster. That's one more than last year.
The brand is worth more than the hurling
Drawing with the much vaunted Cork, beating the even more vaunted Clare may stand to Tipp, and it will be interesting to see how Galway respond due to the nature of their Leinster final defeat.
Conor Cooney sums Galway up in a nutshell, can do the unexpected, pull off a glorious score but 5 minutes later put an easy chance wide, no consistency.
I think both games will be tight on Sunday.
Gaelic Grounds double header confirmed
Clare v Dublin 4pm
Galway v Tipp 6:15pm
Both live on RTE
Quote from: imtommygunn on June 19, 2023, 03:19:12 PM
Galway are a massive disappointment SF. I like Galway but they should be doing so much better than what they are and tbh far too often that seems to have been the case over the years.
That said Tipp games always seem to put fire in their belly so if they have anything in them this is the game for them...
Limerick have won 4 out of the last 5 all Irelands. By definition the rest of the teams have underperformed.
I think it's amazing that Huw Lawlor hasn't won an all Ireland , for example.
Since 2012 Galway have been different as well. They became much more competitive and started featuring in semi finals and finals. I think people mix up different decades.
Quote from: seafoid on June 19, 2023, 02:53:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2023, 02:36:46 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 19, 2023, 01:41:34 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 19, 2023, 12:57:37 PM
Is Croke not an option ?
The logical choice would
Tipp v Galway in Limerick
Clare v Dublin in Portlaoise
There's nothing to gained by having a double header in a half or even third full Croke Park and dragging 2 counties from the west across the country to Dublin
Galway and Dublin will struggle to win these games. Could be tight at times but feel Tipp and Clare will pull away with 10 minutes to go
How did Tipp play in last year's All Ireland semi final ?
I'm talking about this year, no point talking about last year as that has no reflection on this game
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2023, 07:48:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 19, 2023, 02:53:23 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 19, 2023, 02:36:46 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 19, 2023, 01:41:34 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 19, 2023, 12:57:37 PM
Is Croke not an option ?
The logical choice would
Tipp v Galway in Limerick
Clare v Dublin in Portlaoise
There's nothing to gained by having a double header in a half or even third full Croke Park and dragging 2 counties from the west across the country to Dublin
Galway and Dublin will struggle to win these games. Could be tight at times but feel Tipp and Clare will pull away with 10 minutes to go
How did Tipp play in last year's All Ireland semi final ?
I'm talking about this year, no point talking about last year as that has no reflection on this game
Tipp are in a much better place this year than last in terms of a game plan, S&C, and player buy in, so I'd expect them to give Galway a right rattle.
We're now into the knockout phase (in reality) so Tipp and indeed Galway cannot be holding anything back from now on in..
I don't think there will be much in it.
Yeah, knock out now.
Sometimes after a very good result like Tipp, the form could dip a bit. Can they replicate it? Offaly's score was quite decent so Tipp conceded a good few chances themselves.
Basically Galway need to win - for Henry's sake. Another loss this year, after the Leinster Final would be a brutal blow for him, the players and his management team
Tipp be strong favourites but it could be tighter then people think.
Antrim's Neil McManus calls it a day on the inter county scene. Seriously good hurler who gave Antrim 17/18 years of service.
Quote from: Pub Bore on June 21, 2023, 09:29:45 AM
Antrim's Neil McManus calls it a day on the inter county scene. Seriously good hurler who gave Antrim 17/18 years of service.
Fantastic servant for Cushendall, Antrim and hurling in general.
Get him signed up full time for The Sunday Game asap please. Great pundit.
Quote from: Pub Bore on June 21, 2023, 09:29:45 AM
Antrim's Neil McManus calls it a day on the inter county scene. Seriously good hurler who gave Antrim 17/18 years of service.
A hurling legend
Dublin are a big price at 11/2, if Clare have any sort of hangover from the Munster final
Quote from: marty34 on June 21, 2023, 10:44:33 AM
Quote from: Pub Bore on June 21, 2023, 09:29:45 AM
Antrim's Neil McManus calls it a day on the inter county scene. Seriously good hurler who gave Antrim 17/18 years of service.
Fantastic servant for Cushendall, Antrim and hurling in general.
Get him signed up full time for The Sunday Game asap please. Great pundit.
He didn't look out of place when doing halftime at a game a few seasons ago
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 21, 2023, 12:38:43 PM
Dublin are a big price at 11/2, if Clare have any sort of hangover from the Munster final
Clare can throw in a ropey performance when least expected. Went into the all Ireland semi v KK as favourites last year and were beat out the gate in 15 minutes. Dubs might be worth a sneaky £10
Quote from: keep her low this half on June 21, 2023, 03:53:27 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 21, 2023, 12:38:43 PM
Dublin are a big price at 11/2, if Clare have any sort of hangover from the Munster final
Clare can throw in a ropey performance when least expected. Went into the all Ireland semi v KK as favourites last year and were beat out the gate in 15 minutes. Dubs might be worth a sneaky £10
Don't underestimate the loss of John Conlon to them, but they never fronted up with a physical Kilkenny, they'll need to show something better than that against the Dubs, but I'm not expecting Clare to win this by much.
Dublin have been building momentum as well but Clare have more hurling.
Quote from: seafoid on June 21, 2023, 04:03:29 PM
Dublin have been building momentum as well but Clare have more hurling.
Had it have been in Croke I'd have given Dublin a bit of a sniff, but the fact its down the country plays to Clare. Can only see one result here.
Declan Hannon to miss the semi-final. Might be back for the final.
Injuries starting to hit Luimneach now. The bench is getting tested, but holding firm.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 21, 2023, 04:01:09 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on June 21, 2023, 03:53:27 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 21, 2023, 12:38:43 PM
Dublin are a big price at 11/2, if Clare have any sort of hangover from the Munster final
Clare can throw in a ropey performance when least expected. Went into the all Ireland semi v KK as favourites last year and were beat out the gate in 15 minutes. Dubs might be worth a sneaky £10
Don't underestimate the loss of John Conlon to them, but they never fronted up with a physical Kilkenny, they'll need to show something better than that against the Dubs, but I'm not expecting Clare to win this by much.
What happened Conlon?
Quote from: Franko on June 22, 2023, 07:13:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 21, 2023, 04:01:09 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on June 21, 2023, 03:53:27 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 21, 2023, 12:38:43 PM
Dublin are a big price at 11/2, if Clare have any sort of hangover from the Munster final
Clare can throw in a ropey performance when least expected. Went into the all Ireland semi v KK as favourites last year and were beat out the gate in 15 minutes. Dubs might be worth a sneaky £10
Don't underestimate the loss of John Conlon to them, but they never fronted up with a physical Kilkenny, they'll need to show something better than that against the Dubs, but I'm not expecting Clare to win this by much.
What happened Conlon?
He was injured prior to the AI semi-final v Kilkenny, as to what that injury was I can't be sure.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 22, 2023, 07:56:14 AM
Quote from: Franko on June 22, 2023, 07:13:30 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 21, 2023, 04:01:09 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on June 21, 2023, 03:53:27 PM
Quote from: Saffrongael on June 21, 2023, 12:38:43 PM
Dublin are a big price at 11/2, if Clare have any sort of hangover from the Munster final
Clare can throw in a ropey performance when least expected. Went into the all Ireland semi v KK as favourites last year and were beat out the gate in 15 minutes. Dubs might be worth a sneaky £10
Don't underestimate the loss of John Conlon to them, but they never fronted up with a physical Kilkenny, they'll need to show something better than that against the Dubs, but I'm not expecting Clare to win this by much.
What happened Conlon?
He was injured prior to the AI semi-final v Kilkenny, as to what that injury was I can't be sure.
Ah sorry, read that completely wrong - thought he had a current injury
Whichever of the Portumna neighbours has the better backs will win. If Shefflin doesn't sort out the Galway backs he will never get the Kilkenny job. I mo thuairim
Quote from: seafoid on June 23, 2023, 01:31:54 PM
Whichever of the Portumna neighbours has the better backs will win. If Shefflin doesn't sort out the Galway backs he will never get the Kilkenny job. I mo thuairim
Tipp v Galway too close to call but I'm going to plump for Tipp, but they'll need to stop Conor Whelan whose hitting a bit of form after a few underpar performances.
Going for the Clare men in the other game by about 5 or so, but in modern terms that's a tight game also.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 23, 2023, 04:22:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 23, 2023, 01:31:54 PM
Whichever of the Portumna neighbours has the better backs will win. If Shefflin doesn't sort out the Galway backs he will never get the Kilkenny job. I mo thuairim
Tipp v Galway too close to call but I'm going to plump for Tipp, but they'll need to stop Conor Whelan whose hitting a bit of form after a few underpar performances.
Going for the Clare men in the other game by about 5 or so, but in modern terms that's a tight game also.
No Aidan Mc Carthy it seems.
Quote from: johnnycool on June 23, 2023, 04:22:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 23, 2023, 01:31:54 PM
Whichever of the Portumna neighbours has the better backs will win. If Shefflin doesn't sort out the Galway backs he will never get the Kilkenny job. I mo thuairim
Tipp v Galway too close to call but I'm going to plump for Tipp, but they'll need to stop Conor Whelan whose hitting a bit of form after a few underpar performances.
Going for the Clare men in the other game by about 5 or so, but in modern terms that's a tight game also.
I'd say Barrett's the man for Whelan. Good battle there.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/23/nicky-english-tipp-tend-to-score-plenty-and-concede-plenty-but-i-think-theyll-come-out-on-top/Tipperary's Achilles heel has been how easily they concede, from the 3-23 against Clare and then the 4-19 against Cork. Even against Offaly they conceded 3-18.
Galway do enough but run the risk of allowing a poor Tipp back in.
But that won't matter ..
While Limerick are not at their best it'll be another cagey affair I'd say
The perfect result for Galway. Things to work on. Better than winning Leinster.
Quote from: marty34 on June 23, 2023, 06:11:58 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 23, 2023, 04:22:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 23, 2023, 01:31:54 PM
Whichever of the Portumna neighbours has the better backs will win. If Shefflin doesn't sort out the Galway backs he will never get the Kilkenny job. I mo thuairim
Tipp v Galway too close to call but I'm going to plump for Tipp, but they'll need to stop Conor Whelan whose hitting a bit of form after a few underpar performances.
Going for the Clare men in the other game by about 5 or so, but in modern terms that's a tight game also.
I'd say Barrett's the man for Whelan. Good battle there.
He definitely wasn't
Quote from: clonadmad on June 24, 2023, 09:08:21 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 23, 2023, 06:11:58 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 23, 2023, 04:22:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 23, 2023, 01:31:54 PM
Whichever of the Portumna neighbours has the better backs will win. If Shefflin doesn't sort out the Galway backs he will never get the Kilkenny job. I mo thuairim
Tipp v Galway too close to call but I'm going to plump for Tipp, but they'll need to stop Conor Whelan whose hitting a bit of form after a few underpar performances.
Going for the Clare men in the other game by about 5 or so, but in modern terms that's a tight game also.
I'd say Barrett's the man for Whelan. Good battle there.
He definitely wasn't
Don't think he started on him. It was Mc Cormack and he could've had a couple of goals. Then Barrett went on him.
Whelan was excellent today. A real leader and focal point for their attack. Wouldn't have mattered who Tipp put on him.
Big result for Shefflin. Lads were doubting themselves I'd say coming down the final straight after the Leinster Final. But they hung in there.
Tipp were poor. None of the ff line scored and they looked out of joints, as what normally happens after hammering Offaly in the last game. It would've better to have beat Offaly by 1 pt.
Tipp slipped up against Waterford too with a place in the Munster Final up for grabs. Galway seem to have their number recently in championship. Cahill will be wondering where it all went wrong.
Plenty for Galway to work on and that'll suit Henry perfectly.
Considering last year ,third in Munster and qf is about right. The Tipp brand never hurled a ball. #Jaysus
Quote from: seafoid on June 24, 2023, 10:21:00 PM
Considering last year ,third in Munster and qf is about right. The Tipp brand never hurled a ball. #Jaysus
They were very poor
Clare easily got the better of Dublin in the opening game. Tony Kelly picked up 3 goals and 4 points in a man of the match performance. Mark Rodgers also impressed up front for Clare.
Clare look good but they have a few injuries now. As well as the 3 defenders Conlon, Cleary and McInerney, shane O'Donnell picked up an injury. I think Clare will need some if not all of those players back for the tough match up with Kilkenny.
I expected more from Tipperary in the other game especially up front. The only goal they got to get them back in the game came from a mishit point attempt.
Galway were not brilliant in winning either but they got the result and while I am not certain I think they might just get the better of Limerick in the semi.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/23/nicky-english-tipp-tend-to-score-plenty-and-concede-plenty-but-i-think-theyll-come-out-on-top
Limerick may fear Galway more because the Leinster final performance – until the late calamity – had a lot to recommend it and they did enough to win.
I doubt they will fear them SF.
What is the level of the Dublin hurling support, didn't notice as many jerseys in Limerick yesterday on TV. Is it a bit like the Cork footballers?
Quote from: marty34 on June 24, 2023, 09:24:43 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on June 24, 2023, 09:08:21 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 23, 2023, 06:11:58 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on June 23, 2023, 04:22:21 PM
Quote from: seafoid on June 23, 2023, 01:31:54 PM
Whichever of the Portumna neighbours has the better backs will win. If Shefflin doesn't sort out the Galway backs he will never get the Kilkenny job. I mo thuairim
Tipp v Galway too close to call but I'm going to plump for Tipp, but they'll need to stop Conor Whelan whose hitting a bit of form after a few underpar performances.
Going for the Clare men in the other game by about 5 or so, but in modern terms that's a tight game also.
I'd say Barrett's the man for Whelan. Good battle there.
He definitely wasn't
Don't think he started on him. It was Mc Cormack and he could've had a couple of goals. Then Barrett went on him.
Whelan was excellent today. A real leader and focal point for their attack. Wouldn't have mattered who Tipp put on him.
Big result for Shefflin. Lads were doubting themselves I'd say coming down the final straight after the Leinster Final. But they hung in there.
Tipp were poor. None of the ff line scored and they looked out of joints, as what normally happens after hammering Offaly in the last game. It would've better to have beat Offaly by 1 pt.
Tipp slipped up against Waterford too with a place in the Munster Final up for grabs. Galway seem to have their number recently in championship. Cahill will be wondering where it all went wrong.
Plenty for Galway to work on and that'll suit Henry perfectly.
First 15 minutes Whelan never saw the ball, Tipp then allowed C Mannion in particular the time and space to hit diagonal balls in front of Whelan, taking out the sweeper and that's a hoor of a ball for any corner back or defender, and Whelans touch at times let him down or he'd have a few more scores to his name.
Whilst Galway were the better team they went almost 10 minutes in the second half without a score and that gave Tipp a sniff of a game they'd no right to be in and that is Galways Achilles heel, they don't put teams away, they got the jitters so to speak.
Tipp were disappointing, I was expecting a full on contest and whilst it started out like it might be that the game went flat, not all Tipps fault, but neither team wanted to lose the game rather than go out and win it with the usual deep lying defenders pucking the ball back and forth until Galway started finding the spaces for Kevin Cooney and Whelan to operate in.
Tipp lumped some amount of ball on top of the Galway half back line with little return, no real powerful runs from defence making the Galway lads come out and take them on, all too predictable from Tipp who were reliant on wee pockets of brilliance from the McGraths or Forde, but nothing sustained.
They can thank their keeper and poor shooting from Galway for the closeness at the end as that scoreline flattered them.
Only got the second half of the Dub/Clare game and it was over at that stage, Clare will want a few more of their injuries to clear up before meeting Kilkenny who also will be wanting a healthier panel to chose from.
Couldn't see that performance from Tipp coming at all, thought they were building nicely, be serious questions for the Management team to look at all year now.
Despite Tipp playing so badly Galway still nearly managed to mess it up, consistently inconsistent.
Clare will definitely need their injuries cleared up for the next including Conlon, I fear that might be a longer term one he looked pretty shook going off.
That was the thing though it wasn't great play from Tipp to get back into it. Galway let them back into it between missing so many chances and then that mess up for the goal. Very surprised Tipp were so bad.
Could very well be a repeat of last year's final. I hope not tbh and it's Galway Clare but I'd be surprised.
Galway are improving. The defence was very solid compared to the Leinster final. The forwards created a lot of chances compared to Tipp.
They play well together . Tipp will probably be a lot better next year.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/27/how-all-ireland-hurling-quarter-finals-influence-the-battle-of-the-provinces/
Coincidence or not, Limerick and Clare have more serious injury concerns than Galway or Kilkenny going into this year's last four.
The provincial demands have escalated since the round-robin format was introduced. Playing four competitive matches in just over five weeks maximises the potential disruption of injury and suspension, never mind fatigue.
Quote from: seafoid on June 26, 2023, 06:24:41 PM
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/27/how-all-ireland-hurling-quarter-finals-influence-the-battle-of-the-provinces/
Coincidence or not, Limerick and Clare have more serious injury concerns than Galway or Kilkenny going into this year's last four.
The provincial demands have escalated since the round-robin format was introduced. Playing four competitive matches in just over five weeks maximises the potential disruption of injury and suspension, never mind fatigue.
I'd say if you looked at the player churn in each of the last four teams you'd see that more or less Clare and Limerick had to stick with their first 15-18 lads most games as they were all important whereas Galway and KK could try out new blood, rest some of the lads carrying knocks in a few of the other games against WM or Antrim (no offence intended), if anything the run out Galway got against Tipp will do them a bit of good as it allowed them to sort out a few positional issues they'd against KK, a few lads getting into form and all that for a one off go at Limerick when the tank can be really emptied from now on in.
Clare, really need to turn up against KK, I'd expect Conlon to start, less sure about Cleary who would be more suited to playing against KK by his sheer physicality he brings to them, they lacked that against Dublin who caught quite a bit of high ball in there, KK will make Clare pay dearly if that happens again.
Kelly will want to really turn it on, Mikey Butler or no Mikey Butler, Duggan hasn't impressed me at all this year, glimpses of good play, but not sustained enough for my liking and he'll need to be on form for Lawlor who's one of the best defenders out there.
David Fitzgerald is the most improved, consistent hurler on this Clare team, big man who powers through the game and put over points from anywhere, I think Clare will dominate midfield and that could give them the platform to win out this game, I hope they do but you always have it in the back of your mind that Kilkenny will not be easy beat and will be in with a shout going into the last 5 minutes and they normally handle those situations better than other teams, so it'll be two very interesting games for me.
I think the way it pans out for the winner is:
We had games week on week and our lads are road tested against high quality opposition
OR
We had a good break/recovery between games to focus on the next game.
The winner writes the history and all that!
KK will bring what KK bring. They'll miss Adrian Mullan who was one of their beat players in the knock out series last year, especially from open play. Richie Reid missed the Leinster Final so he'll be a big addition sitting in the pocket, reading the game and delivering decent ball to the forwards. T.J. got 3 points from play and seems to be coming into form in general play.
I suppose it's really all about Clare, after last years poor performance. Will the scars still be there or have they pushed on. We'll not know until the final whistle. Be interesting to see how they line up re: injuries. Hogan is still very young and Croke Park could prove that. TK coming into form also. KK no doubt will man mark him but he needs to have a big influence on the game. Rogers is going well inside and could be dangerous if he gets good ball.
I think it'll all come down to how KK handle TK.
Quote from: marty34 on June 30, 2023, 10:52:14 AM
I think the way it pans out for the winner is:
We had games week on week and our lads are road tested against high quality opposition
OR
We had a good break/recovery between games to focus on the next game.
The winner writes the history and all that!
KK will bring what KK bring. They'll miss Adrian Mullan who was one of their beat players in the knock out series last year, especially from open play. Richie Reid missed the Leinster Final so he'll be a big addition sitting in the pocket, reading the game and delivering decent ball to the forwards. T.J. got 3 points from play and seems to be coming into form in general play.
I suppose it's really all about Clare, after last years poor performance. Will the scars still be there or have they pushed on. We'll not know until the final whistle. Be interesting to see how they line up re: injuries. Hogan is still very young and Croke Park could prove that. TK coming into form also. KK no doubt will man mark him but he needs to have a big influence on the game. Rogers is going well inside and could be dangerous if he gets good ball.
I think it'll all come down to how KK handle TK.
If Clare allow that to be the deciding factor then they'll lose and will deserve to lose.
O'Donnell, Duggan, Rodgers all need to be winning their own battles or at least in Duggans case parity with Lawlor.
Clare shipped less psychological damage losing the Munster final this year but they need everyone available and playing on song to beat the jammy Leinster champions.
It could be close.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/04/galway-forward-jason-flynn-ruled-out-for-the-rest-of-the-championship-with-hamstring-injury/
Galway forward Jason Flynn ruled out for the rest of the championship with hamstring injury
Flynn picked up the injury during a training session following the win over Tipperary
Galway's Jason Flynn will miss the rest of the season with a hamstring injury. Photograph: James Crombie/Inpho
Gordon Manning
Tue Jul 4 2023 - 19:57
Galway forward Jason Flynn will miss the rest of the All-Ireland senior hurling championship because of a hamstring injury.
Henry Shefflin confirmed Flynn will not be available for this weekend's semi-final against Limerick, or the All-Ireland decider should Galway advance.
Flynn, who scored a goal when he came on in the Leinster final, also featured off the bench in the Tribesmen's victory over Tipperary last time out.
Speaking to Galway Bay FM, Shefflin said: "Jason came back on the Tuesday after the Tipperary match and lit it up in training.
Gordon Manning
Gordon Manning
Always baffled me as to how Flynn didn't kick on and fulfil the huge potential he had..
Various managers just didn't seem to trust or rate him, when it looked like he would be the man to build a forward line around.
Serious power and pace and well able to hurl just never seemed to kick on to that next level that he looked like he could have had.
Maybe slightly sore on and not fully aware of other circumstances, but just how it appears from the outside looking in.
Quote from: NAG1 on July 05, 2023, 02:02:26 PM
Always baffled me as to how Flynn didn't kick on and fulfil the huge potential he had..
Various managers just didn't seem to trust or rate him, when it looked like he would be the man to build a forward line around.
Serious power and pace and well able to hurl just never seemed to kick on to that next level that he looked like he could have had.
Maybe slightly sore on and not fully aware of other circumstances, but just how it appears from the outside looking in.
A strange one alright.
I think he was travelling between the US and home so training was probably on the light side and hard for a manager to start or even put on ahead of other lads who are training full tilt, but I thought he was home full time the last few years.
He more often than not has an impact from the bench so was always a strange one that he never really started much.
At least he won his all Ireland.
A fabulous player.
Quote from: seafoid on July 06, 2023, 10:13:40 AM
At least he won his all Ireland.
A fabulous player.
No doubt and he definitely is, but it is one of those ones of what could have been.
Such a talent.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 06, 2023, 09:41:07 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on July 05, 2023, 02:02:26 PM
Always baffled me as to how Flynn didn't kick on and fulfil the huge potential he had..
Various managers just didn't seem to trust or rate him, when it looked like he would be the man to build a forward line around.
Serious power and pace and well able to hurl just never seemed to kick on to that next level that he looked like he could have had.
Maybe slightly sore on and not fully aware of other circumstances, but just how it appears from the outside looking in.
A strange one alright.
I think he was travelling between the US and home so training was probably on the light side and hard for a manager to start or even put on ahead of other lads who are training full tilt, but I thought he was home full time the last few years.
He more often than not has an impact from the bench so was always a strange one that he never really started much.
That was Johnny Glynn who was in America
Quote from: Two Hands FFS on July 06, 2023, 12:51:59 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 06, 2023, 09:41:07 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on July 05, 2023, 02:02:26 PM
Always baffled me as to how Flynn didn't kick on and fulfil the huge potential he had..
Various managers just didn't seem to trust or rate him, when it looked like he would be the man to build a forward line around.
Serious power and pace and well able to hurl just never seemed to kick on to that next level that he looked like he could have had.
Maybe slightly sore on and not fully aware of other circumstances, but just how it appears from the outside looking in.
A strange one alright.
I think he was travelling between the US and home so training was probably on the light side and hard for a manager to start or even put on ahead of other lads who are training full tilt, but I thought he was home full time the last few years.
He more often than not has an impact from the bench so was always a strange one that he never really started much.
That was Johnny Glynn who was in America
Ating a heap of sh*te!
Quote from: NAG1 on July 06, 2023, 10:26:01 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 06, 2023, 10:13:40 AM
At least he won his all Ireland.
A fabulous player.
No doubt and he definitely is, but it is one of those ones of what could have been.
Such a talent.
In particular, had a fine match in the 2015 semi' v Tipp, when he nabbed 4 points from play. Got a dinger in the final too as I recall. I think self-belief more than anything has held him back, has all the physical talents. (Has also had to overcome personal tragedy in his life, sadly.)
Are the hurling semi finals under the radar this week,? Talk of not great ticket sales in one match
Quote from: full moon on July 06, 2023, 08:21:22 PM
Are the hurling semi finals under the radar this week,? Talk of not great ticket sales in one match
Very little coverage . No interviews.
They're live on BBC. That feels like a first.
Indo says they expecting 60k+ at KK v Clare and 40-45k for LK V Gal. I think they have it in reverse as the top decks of the stands are not open for the KK game.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/06/23/nicky-english-tipp-tend-to-score-plenty-and-concede-plenty-but-i-think-theyll-come-out-on-top
I was impressed by Galway's attack in the Leinster final against Kilkenny. Conor Whelan was in the best form I've seen him for a while. He looked fit and strong and was outstanding. Evan Niland's free-taking was top-class but I was also impressed by how easily he found space for himself.
Kevin Cooney has serious potential. He may have frittered away a lot of scoring chances in Kilkenny but the reason Galway were winning the Leinster final down the stretch was because of him, fielding ball and shooting at will. He has great pace and is a player who I think we will hear a good deal about in future.
Limerick may fear Galway more because the Leinster final performance – until the late calamity – had a lot to recommend it and they did enough to win
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/07/joe-canning-galway-need-to-bring-savage-aggression-to-beat-limerick/
Every game involving Limerick is physical and Galway will need to bring savage aggression tomorrow. The way Galway set up will be crucial. If they approach the semi-final the same way they did the quarter-final I think they have very little chance.
Against Tipp, they got a lot of bodies into their own half of the field, and snuffed out Tipp's goal threat. That worked on that day, against that opposition, but Limerick are a completely different proposition. I'm convinced that the only way to beat the All-Ireland champions is to push up and put massive pressure on the ball in their half of the field. Don't let them walk it out. Really squeeze them.
Galway stood off Limerick last year and tried to win the game with shots from distance. If they had converted half of the shots they missed they would have won the match, but shooting from distance all the time is not a percentage play. Galway will need to come up with something better than that.
Anyone interested in any premium level tickets for Sunday? I have a few for sale, PM me.
Kilkenny 9/2 to championship to great odds. Will beat clare and will rattle Limerick in the final.
Quote from: didlyi on July 07, 2023, 12:34:48 PM
Indo says they expecting 60k+ at KK v Clare and 40-45k for LK V Gal. I think they have it in reverse as the top decks of the stands are not open for the KK game.
Yeah they have it in reverse.
Last year 39,626 was at the Clare v Kilkenny semi final and 52,215 at Limerick v Galway.
Will Limerick's injuries prove to be their undoing tonight?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 08, 2023, 04:48:21 PM
Will Limerick's injuries prove to be their undoing tonight?
3 from the starting 15 in last years AI final?
Sean Finn,Declan Hannon,Graeme Mulcahy* and replacements Mike Casey,Cian Lynch and Peter Casey
*named on the bench this evening.
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 08, 2023, 05:24:29 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 08, 2023, 04:48:21 PM
Will Limerick's injuries prove to be their undoing tonight?
3 from the starting 15 in last years AI final?
Sean Finn,Declan Hannon,Graeme Mulcahy* and replacements Mike Casey,Cian Lynch and Peter Casey
*named on the bench this evening.
Finn and Hannon big losses, Lynch seems to be still playing himself back in from his injury, that said they have been goal hungry and the defence is tight.
Hoping for it to be full pelt
No late changes in personnel for Limerick or Galway
Good opening 20 mins. Galway have recovered well for the early goal conceded and they lead 1-9 to 1-5.
Half time Galway 1-13 Limerick 1-12. The tribesmen deserve their half time lead but Limerick finished the half strongly.
Limerick in trouble
Expect Galway to fill their togs in second half.
Game on BBC 2. Coverage well ahead of RTE.
59,739 the official attendance. Expected was 60k so wasn't far off
Goal for Limerick 46 mins played Limerick 2-16 Galway 1-15. It was 1-12 to 1-6 to Galway on 28 minutes.
Game over. Gillane on fire.
Quote from: seafoid on July 08, 2023, 06:31:22 PM
Limerick in trouble
Other way around now, looks inevitable at this stage
55 mins played Limerick 2-18 Galway 1-16
Galway look flat and Limerick are just playing it around.
That has to be the end of Shefflin?
As a neutral it seems The Ref let Limerick away with a fair amount of over physical tackles.
Galway are gone but when the game was in the melting pot he let Limerick away with a fair bit, while blowing Galway.
Full time Limerick 2-24 Galway 1-18. From the 28th minute today Limerick showed why they are going for 4 All Ireland titles in a row or 5 out of the last 6 All Ireland titles on offer.
Apparently Galway hurlers have won just 1 of their last 12 Championship matches in Croke Park. Limerick in comparison have won 9 of their last 10 championship games in Croke Park. (only defeat to Kilkenny by 1 point in the 2019 AI semi final)
Shades of Mayo v Dublin in the football semi final last weekend. Mayo like Galway today doing well for 28 minutes then the fitter and stronger side took over to win pulling up.
Man of the Match award looks like a Junior Cert woodwork project.
Men against boys in the second half.
Galway were absolutely terrible after half time.
Realistically, while Galway have a lot of good players, Whelan and Daithi Burke are the only two that would be considered up there with the best in the country. And Burke's best years are probably behind him.
Quote from: Cunny Funt on July 08, 2023, 07:39:36 PM
Shades of Mayo v Dublin in the football semi final last weekend. Mayo like Galway today doing well for 28 minutes then the fitter and stronger side took over to win pulling up.
Yes the 7 day turnaround affected Galway greatly! :D
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 08, 2023, 07:30:16 PM
Galway look flat and Limerick are just playing it around.
That has to be the end of Shefflin?
Is the manager the problem though?
Doubtful.
Galway just aren't as good as the likes of Limerick at the moment.
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 08, 2023, 07:40:00 PM
Man of the Match award looks like a Junior Cert woodwork project.
Was saying the same thing! Awful someone made that on the way up on the bus
On the game Limericks fitness levels are off the chart
Quote from: galwayman on July 08, 2023, 07:40:15 PM
Men against boys in the second half.
Galway were absolutely terrible after half time.
Realistically, while Galway have a lot of good players, Whelan and Daithi Burke are the only two that would be considered up there with the best in the country. And Burke's best years are probably behind him.
Maybe a bit harsh - think there are a few more players than that at that level.
That game was a bit depressing tbh - Galway really dropped the head and limerick once again showed they are just too good. How many players are they missing and still winning an ai semi that easy?
Wonder what the future will hold for king Henry. I don't think a kk team would drop off like that.
Hegarty and Lynch still not back to their best but apart from that nothing else to complain about from Limericks point of view.
Clare to beat Kilkenny tomorrow if Cleary and Conlon are fit.
Quote from: galwayman on July 08, 2023, 07:42:01 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 08, 2023, 07:30:16 PM
Galway look flat and Limerick are just playing it around.
That has to be the end of Shefflin?
Is the manager the problem though?
Doubtful.
Galway just aren't as good as the likes of Limerick at the moment.
You are probably right, but I always rather a local man as Manager.
Limerick 26 scores from 44 shots and Galway 19 scores from 32 shots.
Kilkenny won't beat them either. Kilkenny are at the same level as Galway.
Limerick have superb workrate. They will win a few more and then time will call them.
They have super players but it's always the same ones. Just like Barcelona.
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 08, 2023, 07:35:43 PM
Full time Limerick 2-24 Galway 1-18. From the 28th minute today Limerick showed why they are going for 4 All Ireland titles in a row or 5 out of the last 6 All Ireland titles on offer.
Apparently Galway hurlers have won just 1 of their last 12 Championship matches in Croke Park. Limerick in comparison have won 9 of their last 10 championship games in Croke Park. (only defeat to Kilkenny by 1 point in the 2019 AI semi final)
Those 2 stats are linked. If one team is dominant everyone else loses. Tipp, Cork, Kilkenny, Waterford, Wexford, Clare, Antrim, Westmeath - everyone loses. Even Kilkenny . The Kilkenny goalkeeper has never won the all Ireland.
I doubt Galway only won 1- they got to finals in 2015, 2017 and 2018. That's 4 because they won in 2017. I think they lost to Limerick in 2020, 2022 and now
I think that is all the Croke Park appearances since 2015.
Well they say there's never a bad game of Hurling, but today we had one.
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 08, 2023, 08:10:08 PM
Well they say there's never a bad game of Hurling, but today we had one.
First half was top drawer. Third quarter Limerick stepped on the gas and blew Galway away, last quarter was all about the lack of fighting quality needed to beat a team going for greatness.
Best of all no one talking about bad calls or the ref being a talking point.
No one asking for rule changes or other shite that daily with bog ball.
But comparing apples and oranges is your thing, dive in
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 08, 2023, 07:43:48 PM
Quote from: galwayman on July 08, 2023, 07:40:15 PM
Men against boys in the second half.
Galway were absolutely terrible after half time.
Realistically, while Galway have a lot of good players, Whelan and Daithi Burke are the only two that would be considered up there with the best in the country. And Burke's best years are probably behind him.
Maybe a bit harsh - think there are a few more players than that at that level.
That game was a bit depressing tbh - Galway really dropped the head and limerick once again showed they are just too good. How many players are they missing and still winning an ai semi that easy?
Wonder what the future will hold for king Henry. I don't think a kk team would drop off like that.
The difference between the 2 teams was workrate. That gave Limerick control of their half. Maybe the key is S&C.
Quote from: seafoid on July 08, 2023, 08:06:09 PM
I doubt Galway only won 1-
One championship win in a Dublin venue for Galway 2019 to 2023. Against Wexford in 2020. Since then have drawn and lost to Dublin and number of defeats to Kilkenny and Limerick.
Quote from: Blowitupref on July 08, 2023, 08:37:37 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 08, 2023, 08:06:09 PM
I doubt Galway only won 1-
One championship win in a Dublin venue for Galway 2019 to 2023. Against Wexford in 2020. Since then have drawn and lost to Dublin and number of defeats to Kilkenny and Limerick.
Most teams have lost to Limerick in that period. It's the manner of defeat that's telling, work rate which Henry was shouting for is missing, whether that's down to S&C or desire to achieve something only they will know..
The work rate was there until the going got tough though. S&c a factor but i doubt it was the main one. Limerick sussed them out and once they did destroyed them really. The lack of ability on the sideline to change things wasn't good.
Galway's decision making on the field was terrible. Ball after ball wasted by dropping down on the Limerick defence. Very little on the bench to shake it up either.
Limerick look a mile ahead of the rest once again. Once they got going they are hard to stop. Everything they do, even the little things like Casey conning the ref a couple of times, is ruthless.
Once the ref put away his whistle and Limerick at it, there was only going to be one winner.
Quote from: Premier Emperor on July 08, 2023, 09:45:17 PM
Once the ref put away his whistle and Limerick at it, there was only going to be one winner.
Another dick post, you fairly rack them up. Ref was spot on but sure whatever floats your narrative. Tipp out and their club teams won't put up much either as normal
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 08, 2023, 08:14:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 08, 2023, 08:10:08 PM
Well they say there's never a bad game of Hurling, but today we had one.
First half was top drawer. Third quarter Limerick stepped on the gas and blew Galway away, last quarter was all about the lack of fighting quality needed to beat a team going for greatness.
Best of all no one talking about bad calls or the ref being a talking point.
No one asking for rule changes or other shite that daily with bog ball.
But comparing apples and oranges is your thing, dive in
Totally agree, 9 out of 10 times Hurling matches are top notch and today up to half time was top notch, But not after. Last week Kerry/Tyrone and Mayo/Dublin were top notch up to half time, But not after that.
Limerick do what Limerick do. Took them 20 mins to 'warm up' but when they did they just controlled the game. A great team to watch - short stick passing, movement and shooting. A fantastic hurling team.
Galway played into their hands in second half. Lost their shape and lack of work-rate combined with poor decision making.
I was wondering that Galway needed to make a statement in first 5 mins of second half after letting Limerick back into it and they won throw the sliotar straight after half-time from the throw in, then coughed it up easily and Limerick got a point (iirc), then they took over.
Galway should have been up by at least 5 pts at half-time when they had they really dominant first 20 mins but couldn't convert. They looked for, and got Whelan on a lot of ball.
Competition for places/bench will be tight in next few weeks for the final. A lot of lads putting their hand up today.
Quote from: seafoid on July 08, 2023, 07:52:11 PM
Kilkenny won't beat them either. Kilkenny are at the same level as Galway.
Limerick have superb workrate. They will win a few more and then time will call them.
They have super players but it's always the same ones. Just like Barcelona.
Kilkenny won't beat Clare either I reckon
Limerick are the hurling equivalent of the Dublin 6 in a row. They were also untouchable .
Quote from: seafoid on July 09, 2023, 08:44:31 AM
Limerick are the hurling equivalent of the Dublin 6 in a row. They were also untouchable .
Galway clearly not at the level of the Munster teams when they faced Limerick this year
Even Waterford who had a poor year could have beaten them if they had kept wides down and were right in it till the end
Galway by comparison were beaten with 20 minutes to go
Out on their legs and out of ideas
They have regressed under Henry and he has a job of work on his hands in the final year of his term
His main men are all in the autumn of their careers and the replacements don't look up to it
Galway are missing a Canning like figure and since he left they have lacked any killer intinct. Thy need to blood new players now as this crop aint going anywhere. Good match though for 50 minutes.
Quote from: clonadmad on July 09, 2023, 09:12:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 09, 2023, 08:44:31 AM
Limerick are the hurling equivalent of the Dublin 6 in a row. They were also untouchable .
Galway clearly not at the level of the Munster teams when they faced Limerick this year
Even Waterford who had a poor year could have beaten them if they had kept wides down and were right in it till the end
Galway by comparison were beaten with 20 minutes to go
Out on their legs and out of ideas
They have regressed under Henry and he has a job of work on his hands in the final year of his term
His main men are all in the autumn of their careers and the replacements don't look up to it
Limerick aren't the as the team who to Clare. Limerick peak for 2 matches and nobody can beat them.
Quote from: seafoid on July 09, 2023, 11:11:28 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on July 09, 2023, 09:12:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 09, 2023, 08:44:31 AM
Limerick are the hurling equivalent of the Dublin 6 in a row. They were also untouchable .
Galway clearly not at the level of the Munster teams when they faced Limerick this year
Even Waterford who had a poor year could have beaten them if they had kept wides down and were right in it till the end
Galway by comparison were beaten with 20 minutes to go
Out on their legs and out of ideas
They have regressed under Henry and he has a job of work on his hands in the final year of his term
His main men are all in the autumn of their careers and the replacements don't look up to it
Limerick aren't the as the team who to Clare. Limerick peak for 2 matches and nobody can beat them.
I don't understand your first sentence so I cant comment on what your saying
This notion that Limerick have to peak for 2 games like an 1970's Kerry football team is laughable
Munster is so tight they have to be on it from game 1
Let's not forget that they had to beat Cork to stay in the championship
The reality is that Galway are dependent on lads in their 30's
don't seem to have much coming to match the lads they will be replacing
And have a manger in situ who in his final year next year has some very difficult decisions to make
Plenty coming through for Galway. Need a 1985 or 2012 scenario where a whole host of them are tried together and thrown in the deep end.
Think I'm swaying towards a draw here, trying to make reasons for either team to win but feel it's going to go to the wire.
TJ with frees alone will keep Kilkenny within touching distance and Kilkenny will keep it tight at the back.
Clare's fitness and spread of scorers will stretch Kilkenny at times, so be interesting to see how the line out and who picks up who!
Trying to decide which pub in Dunfanaghy to watch it, two dog friendly pubs here, which is great for our two!
I see the top level camogiers throw it too...
:'(
Quote from: clonadmad on July 09, 2023, 12:06:54 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 09, 2023, 11:11:28 AM
Quote from: clonadmad on July 09, 2023, 09:12:24 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 09, 2023, 08:44:31 AM
Limerick are the hurling equivalent of the Dublin 6 in a row. They were also untouchable .
Galway clearly not at the level of the Munster teams when they faced Limerick this year
Even Waterford who had a poor year could have beaten them if they had kept wides down and were right in it till the end
Galway by comparison were beaten with 20 minutes to go
Out on their legs and out of ideas
They have regressed under Henry and he has a job of work on his hands in the final year of his term
His main men are all in the autumn of their careers and the replacements don't look up to it
Limerick aren't the as the team who to Clare. Limerick peak for 2 matches and nobody can beat them.
I don't understand your first sentence so I cant comment on what your saying
This notion that Limerick have to peak for 2 games like an 1970's Kerry football team is laughable
Munster is so tight they have to be on it from game 1
Let's not forget that they had to beat Cork to stay in the championship
The reality is that Galway are dependent on lads in their 30's
don't seem to have much coming to match the lads they will be replacing
And have a manger in situ who in his final year next year has some very difficult decisions to make
Munster is intense but the intensity level is nowhere near what Limerick brought yesterday. Do you think they spent the last 4 weeks saving hay?
Rodgers is out according to rte. It is a big blow for Clare.
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 09, 2023, 03:44:30 PM
Rodgers is out according to rte. It is a big blow for Clare.
Incorrect information apparently
Really looking forward to this one. Basically if you play Kilkenny you need to fight for every ball like your life depends on it because they will. Question is will Clare do that.
Another Kilkenny and Limerick final with Limerick to win 10.
20 mins played Kilkenny in control thus far and leading 0-10 to 0-7.
Half time Kilkenny 0-15 Clare 0-10 and the cats good value for that 5 point lead.
5 points in it.
If Kilkenny go on to win here they could well have the work rate to match Limerick, was only two points between the sides in last years All Ireland final.
Limerick too strong for either. GOAT team.
It's better for Kilkenny to lose serial all Ireland finals. They are so earnest. Galway have lost enough. Losing All Ireland finals is horrible.
A lof Kilkenny support gone home at half time. An awful shower of people.
51 mins played a finely balanced game 0-17 each.
This is brilliant stuff. What a game.
0-15 to 0-9 after 35 mins Kilkenny were leading to Clare leading 0-17 to 0-19 53mns. Big turning point the Kilkenny goal on 55 mins and so preventable from Clare.
62 mins played Kilkenny 1-20 Clare 0-20
Goal for Clare level game again! 1-20 each.
FT Kilkenny 1-25 Clare 1-22 so it will be a repeat of last years All Ireland final. Some outstanding saves by both goalkeepers today.
How did he save that at the end there, unbelievable save.
tremendous game, Q how were there only 3 mins additional time, farcical should have been 6 or 7 with all the injuries, hawk eye etc.
Who makes that decision and what is it based off.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 09, 2023, 02:48:39 PM
I see the top level camogiers throw it too...
Kilkenny, Cork and Galway are interchangeable.
Clare kind of blew that. The gift of a goal and the wrong tactics in the first half. There is always next year for Clare with good under age players coming through.
Yet again probably didn't get the top performance from Tony Kelly that was needed to get them over the line. TJ Reid stood up at the right times
Clare lost the match in the first half
Quote from: joemamas on July 09, 2023, 05:38:40 PM
tremendous game, Q how were there only 3 mins additional time, farcical should have been 6 or 7 with all the injuries, hawk eye etc.
Who makes that decision and what is it based off.
Personally I was looking at 4 or at a push five, Hawkeye would be 20/30 seconds subs 20 depending on faffing about, maybe one or two injuries seconds half?
3 was shy for sure...
Anyway on the game, it was always going to be a close encounter but the intensity the Kilkenny bring is savage and they'll need that in spades next day.
Huge difference bring Limerick will not allow the momentum to change once they are in control, today when Clare levelled they didn't push on and get the killer scores, the Cats just redoubled their efforts and took their chances.
Kilkenny left behind 5 wides, that some efficiency with the ball, especially in hurling.
The save at the end ruin my bet but that was unreal and proved to be the winner
Whistler did a fine job, couple of calls were 50/50's but nothing he could do about the 5 seconds, that's all ya get. I counted it back again and it was five seconds depending on how slow/fast you count it.
Not sure Kilkenny's bench is enough but they are there and Clare need to rethink.
Clare's goal btw was some effort, Shane wouldn't be the tallest but his fielding and strength is something else
Quote from: seafoid on July 09, 2023, 04:47:01 PM
It's better for Kilkenny to lose serial all Ireland finals. They are so earnest. Galway have lost enough. Losing All Ireland finals is horrible.
"It's better for Kilkenny to lose serial all Ireland finals"
Jesus you talk some rot
No county least of all Kilkenny will want to lose serial all ireland finals
They will relish the opportunity of stopping a Limerick 4 in a row
Quote from: clonadmad on July 09, 2023, 06:49:15 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 09, 2023, 04:47:01 PM
It's better for Kilkenny to lose serial all Ireland finals. They are so earnest. Galway have lost enough. Losing All Ireland finals is horrible.
"It's better for Kilkenny to lose serial all Ireland finals"
Jesus you talk some rot
No county least of all Kilkenny will want to lose serial all ireland finals
They will relish the opportunity of stopping a Limerick 4 in a row
Every team that wins a semi is motivated to win the final. Kilkenny will lose again .
Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 09, 2023, 04:58:07 PM
A lof Kilkenny support gone home at half time. An awful shower of people.
What?
Quote from: marty34 on July 09, 2023, 07:36:21 PM
Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 09, 2023, 04:58:07 PM
A lof Kilkenny support gone home at half time. An awful shower of people.
What?
Well based on that Clare supporter beating up a girl in Hill 16 I'm not surprised
Rodgers had the ball in his hand on 5 seconds to take his shot, ref should have let it play out for the 5 seconds. Bad call
Should it not have been a black card penalty for the free awarded on Eoin Cody when he cut in along the end line ? As opposed to a yellow card
Quote from: Kidder81 on July 09, 2023, 08:27:38 PM
Rodgers had the ball in his hand on 5 seconds to take his shot, ref should have let it play out for the 5 seconds. Bad call
Should it not have been a black card penalty for the free awarded on Eoin Cody when he cut in along the end line ? As opposed to a yellow card
Yes 5 seconds and ref either blows or allows it to continue, he pulled it back unfortunately with hindsight he could have gave him 6 seconds
Is the ruling a goal scoring opportunity not taken because of a foul black card penalty, or yellow card for dangerous use of hurl?
Cody got shot off cleanly and not hindered so maybe the ref was correct
Brian Gavin: Clare had strong grounds for grievances with some of the officiating
It had all started so well for Colm Lyons in the second of the All-Ireland semi-finals. Giving good and clear advantage, the likes of David McInerney and Huw Lawlor were allowed the opportunity to score fine points as a result.
Seadna Morey was picked up for a yellow card on Tom Phelan but then things started to slip. Colm missed a yellow card for an over-zealous foul by Conor Fogarty on Tony Kelly, which first drew the frustration of the Clare supporters.
Adam Hogan was rightly booked for slapping across Eoin Cody but as Colm played advantage Phelan then ploughed into John Conlon and he did nothing about it. That there was no sanction beggared belief.
To make matter worse, a few minutes later he pulled back the action for a foul on Peter Duggan just as Mark Rodgers was finding the Kilkenny net. Clare fans were seething with that and rightly so but across the two games the advantage rule was being butchered with far too much time given for attacks to develop.
In that second half, Colm looked lost. Richie Hogan should have been whistled for overcarrying before Diarmuid Ryan took him out and was booked. Walter Walsh was clever in how he drew the late free from David McInerney too. Those couple of borderline placed balls scored by TJ Reid sure made Kilkenny's life easier.
There's no doubt that Clare contributed to their own downfall with the concession of the goal. Eoin Murphy's saves and Conor Fogarty's block were factors too. But Clare had strong grounds for grievances with some of the officiating. Colm, when he reviews the game, might not like some of what he sees.
Going into the weekend, I felt Saturday's game was going to be the tougher of the two to ref just because of the physical nature of the teams involved. For the first 45 minutes or so, it was a test for James Owens but he showed some great advantage in the opening half, especially for Aaron Gillane's goal and a Conor Whelan point.
Kyle Hayes rightly went into the book for a chop on Brian Concannon, who had started the game at 100 miles an hour. And James was keeping a tight rein on proceedings, refusing to let too much go.
The big talking point in the first half was the stoppage in play as Nickie Quaid took off his helmet when it appeared he was signalling about a stomach issue. This is the second time the Limerick goalkeeper has done that in this championship and you can't but think it's a tactical move.
Let's be honest, Limerick were under the pump at that stage. Six points down and their puckouts in a bit of bother, the breather was welcomed and they ended up outscoring Galway 1-18 to six points for the rest of the match. No doubt if it is repeated in the final, the referee will have to take a dim view.
James' control of the game loosened in the second half as proven by Galway not receiving a free out for a foul on Seán Linnane just before Cian Lynch put in motion the move for Gillane's second goal. In the first half, it would have been a Galway free but the refereeing style had changed.
Grappling with Seamus Flanagan on the ground and guilty of a high tackle, Jack Grealish could have been booked twice but only saw yellow once. Cathal O'Neill was rightly carded for a wild pull late on and James had done reasonably well before the game as a contest petered out.
Having said that, and it was a trend across both matches, the amount of questionable handpasses and steps taken. It's something you almost come to expect around the end of the championship but in the league or start of the provincial championships these offences would be punished accordingly.
Onto the final on Sunday week and if GAA politics don't get in the way John Keenan should be getting ready for his first All-Ireland final. I sure hope they don't deny him this earned opportunity.
not good for the game having same teams in final
There's not a game you could not pick out a grievance with calls. In the main I felt the calls evened themselves out.
Galvin should look back at some of his refereeing decisions over the years. I'd like to see how critical he is of his own strange calls
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2023, 11:01:16 PM
There's not a game you could not pick out a grievance with calls. In the main I felt the calls evened themselves out.
Galvin should look back at some of his refereeing decisions over the years. I'd like to see how critical he is of his own strange calls
Gavin would sicken you with his constant attacks on refs which give's legitimacy to others who never blew a whistle to do much worse
And all for a few € in a newspaper column
Quote from: Eire90 on July 09, 2023, 10:41:15 PM
not good for the game having same teams in final
First time since 1973/74 to have back to back Limerick v Kilkenny All Ireland finals. Limerick won it in 1973 and Kilkenny gained revenge by winning the 1974. History to repeat itself in 2023 with Kilkenny winning?
Quote from: Eire90 on July 09, 2023, 10:41:15 PM
not good for the game having same teams in final
The two best teams in the country are in the final so good for the game or not it is what it is.
Quote from: jcpen on July 10, 2023, 06:40:42 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 09, 2023, 10:41:15 PM
not good for the game having same teams in final
The two best teams in the country are in the final so good for the game or not it is what it is.
True. They played in the 2023 League Final.
Best two teams in 2023. No question.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2023, 07:44:10 PM
Quote from: marty34 on July 09, 2023, 07:36:21 PM
Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 09, 2023, 04:58:07 PM
A lof Kilkenny support gone home at half time. An awful shower of people.
What?
Well based on that Clare supporter beating up a girl in Hill 16 I'm not surprised
What happened there?
Quote from: jcpen on July 10, 2023, 06:40:42 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on July 09, 2023, 10:41:15 PM
not good for the game having same teams in final
The two best teams in the country are in the final so good for the game or not it is what it is.
If Kilkenny had to come through the much tougher Munster Championship would they be so fresh?
They had easy games like Antrim and Westmeath and could afford to throw the Wexford game too.
Clare just came up short again, they need to develop some more inside forwards who can both win their own ball and take scores.
Don't like concentrate on it but the standard of officiating in both games left a lot of questions.
Limerick are hard to ref, but so many calls were either missed or wrong. Don't even get me started on their 'handpassing' I would say we are close to 80% being throws.
Again yesterday the number of fouls either ignored or missed was shocking, one of the poorest games I've seen him ref.
Big difference for me was Kilkenny's bench. They were being dominated for 10 mins+ at the start of the second half. Big Walter came on and won a few balls and gave them an outlet for their puckouts. Wee Richie came on and won a free in the corner. Kenny got a point. Pàdraig Walsh got a point. Outwith Walsh, who came on with about 2 mins to go, the other lads came in early to make a difference. Good calls by the KK management team.
Clare made 3 subs. Ryan Taylor was injured before half-time . One was a direct switch for the one they made pre-match. Big Aaron Shanagher came in with 2 mins to go, when they needed a goal. It was warm yesterday, serious humid so for me, Lohan didn't think he had enough on the bench.
KK made 5 subs and they all, outwith Buckley really, made a big contribution in the second half. Clare's didn't. That was the difference in my opinion.
Fantastic save by Murphy. Such quick reactions. O'Donnell was excellent for Clare, Duggan a handful also. Quilligan was very good also. I'm surprised TK wasn't on a lot more frees. Clare have went with Aidan Mc Carthy, TK and now Rogers on the frees. Hard to beat a consistent free taker.
Some great battles all over the park. Good honest battles between the players.
T.J., for me, is the best hurler ever. Still going strong. Didn't score from play but got on the ball, scored frees and sidelines, won dirty ball and was all over the pitch. A leader when needed.
I said before that Clare needed TK to have a big impact on the game, if Clare were going to be successful. He didn't, unfortunately for Clare. Butler, again done a great job on him. Tracked him everywhere. In Munster games, TK was getting on ball and more importantly scoring, something he only managed once.
Derek Lyng has done a great job in his first year. Leage Final and, Leinster Champions and now All-Ireland Finalists. Not bad in the year after Cody leaves. You can see KK's style changing. Far more adaptable at working it short. But still happy for Richie Reid to mop up ball/short puckouts and he always looks for Cody inside for the long out ball.
Limerick will be strong favourites for Liam again but KK will not panic.
Edit: Kilkenny had 5 wides yesterday in total - 2 in the first half.
Clare had 9 wides in total.
Not too often both teams have single figure wides in CP I'd say.
Once more thing, them airhorns would drive you mad.
They should be banned as they're so annoying but more importantly, when a free is being taken by either side, the amount of young ones/teenagers blowing them trying to put the free-taker off is a disgrace.
Should be taken off them before the go in.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2023, 11:01:16 PM
There's not a game you could not pick out a grievance with calls. In the main I felt the calls evened themselves out.
Galvin should look back at some of his refereeing decisions over the years. I'd like to see how critical he is of his own strange calls
Can't argue with anything Gavin wrote there, Kilkenny are masters at buying frees and getting away with stuff as well. Brian Lohan was going mad on the sideline and quite rightly so. Teams have to bring a game that gives them a few extra scores to counter balance the lob sided free count. Still if Tony Kelly had of showed up and Clare's decision making was a bit better they would have got over the line anyway. Eoin Cody is some player and Eoin Murphy was probably the difference yesterday.
KK were cuter at winning frees and at not giving them away. Limerick were the same. I really wasn't overly impressed by the ref yesterday and I'm a neutral.
That's the difference in the best teams though. Clare were a bit naive in places. KK got away with emptying Conlon a few times.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2023, 07:44:10 PM
Quote from: marty34 on July 09, 2023, 07:36:21 PM
Quote from: BuzzCagney on July 09, 2023, 04:58:07 PM
A lof Kilkenny support gone home at half time. An awful shower of people.
What?
Well based on that Clare supporter beating up a girl in Hill 16 I'm not surprised
Scandalous stuff. No place for that behaviour
Quote from: north_antrim_hound on July 10, 2023, 10:48:07 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2023, 11:01:16 PM
There's not a game you could not pick out a grievance with calls. In the main I felt the calls evened themselves out.
Galvin should look back at some of his refereeing decisions over the years. I'd like to see how critical he is of his own strange calls
Can't argue with anything Gavin wrote there, Kilkenny are masters at buying frees and getting away with stuff as well. Brian Lohan was going mad on the sideline and quite rightly so. Teams have to bring a game that gives them a few extra scores to counter balance the lob sided free count. Still if Tony Kelly had of showed up and Clare's decision making was a bit better they would have got over the line anyway. Eoin Cody is some player and Eoin Murphy was probably the difference yesterday.
Gavin has a cheek complaining about any Ref, he was no better than any of them at the moment.
Also was he not done for assaulting a referee and having the investigation into it stalled to allow him to ref the All Ireland final of that year?
I feel sorry for refs these days. The amount of holding and pulling and dragging is worse than ever and the throw handpass is the culprit yet not one pundit is calling it out. There are ways of making the game easier for the refs if we just have a deep dive into the tackle in hurling and the handpass. Constant blaming the refs is just kicking the can down the road.
The tackle very difficult to ref now, and teams have got clever to it with all the talk this year about dangerous frontal tackles , with contact the arms are going up into the air and throwing themselves back to the ground. Hoping for a red in many cases for the tackler
advantage rule in gaa is terrible, surely if a player passes the ball and his team continue on then that is the advantage? I hate the 5 second rule make it easy for refs, if the player gets the ball away and the team are still attacking then thats the advantage.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 10, 2023, 10:51:54 AM
KK were cuter at winning frees and at not giving them away. Limerick were the same. I really wasn't overly impressed by the ref yesterday and I'm a neutral.
That's the difference in the best teams though. Clare were a bit naive in places. KK got away with emptying Conlon a few times.
thought the ref was poor enough yesterday and as a neutral seemed to give kilkenny easier frees.
the call back in the second half when calre scored a goal was harsh i thought given he had allowed teh advantage rule to develop in other circumstances
all in all though it was some save at the end
Think Lohan and the boys will lose more sleep over the things they could actually effect, hope they keep at it for next year. They given powerful value this season.
Richie Hogan has been on the go since 2007
Quote from: seafoid on July 10, 2023, 12:24:56 PM
Richie Hogan has been on the go since 2007
I thought Richie was a bit off the pace even though he won a very important free that Clare will be sickened to have given away...like many other free they gave away.
Quote from: didlyi on July 10, 2023, 12:51:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 10, 2023, 12:24:56 PM
Richie Hogan has been on the go since 2007
I thought Richie was a bit off the pace even though he won a very important free that Clare will be sickened to have given away...like many other free they gave away.
Yeah he was going nowhere and obviously doesent have the legs anymore so not sure what the Clare players were expecting him to do
Quote from: Saffron_sam20 on July 10, 2023, 11:55:25 AM
advantage rule in gaa is terrible, surely if a player passes the ball and his team continue on then that is the advantage? I hate the 5 second rule make it easy for refs, if the player gets the ball away and the team are still attacking then thats the advantage.
The clue is in the name.
The alternative is a free shot at goal from wherever the foul occurs, so in order for any 'advantage' to accrue, the outcome of the play during the 5 seconds must be at least equivalent to this.
Just continuing to attack isn't necessarily any advantage.
Actually thought that could have been a red card. Shoulder from Ryan to the head.
But Lohan will blame the referee. It wasn't the referee in the Munster final who left the same fella on Gillane for over 50 minutes and on a yellow card, or randomly played a sweeper in the first half.
Quote from: Two Hands FFS on July 10, 2023, 01:11:17 PM
Actually thought that could have been a red card. Shoulder from Ryan to the head.
But Lohan will blame the referee. It wasn't the referee in the Munster final who left the same fella on Gillane for over 50 minutes and on a yellow card, or randomly played a sweeper in the first half.
Or played a sweeper in the first half to not concede goals...yet went toe-to-toe with Limerick. Strange decision.
I watched it and bar maybe one or two calls he didn't call I didn't see much wrong, that's me just watching it as a fan of hurling. These games are set at a frenetic pace, the intensity is just breakneck pace.
Yes, having another look at the 5 seconds call was maybe tight, the call for Cody's possible should for penalty the ref got it right.
Kilkenny always have played on the line of, foul or no foul, over zealous but not enough to call
Some ref's like it physical others not
Question MR 2.
If Nicky Quaid went down with a contact lense issue - although clearly there was nothing wrong and he was just cleverly slowing things down as Limerick were 6 pts down but Galway had the momentum.
It was clever play acting by an experienced operator.
What is the rule there? Can a ref just say get up, there's nothing wrong and I know what you're at?
Quote from: marty34 on July 10, 2023, 07:11:52 PM
Question MR 2.
If Nicky Quaid went down with a contact lense issue - although clearly there was nothing wrong and he was just cleverly slowing things down as Limerick were 6 pts down but Galway had the momentum.
It was clever play acting by an experienced operator.
What is the rule there? Can a ref just say get up, there's nothing wrong and I know what you're at?
We all know what he was at and in fact you can see the ref having a word with him.
He could do what ever he wants and deal with the repercussions afterwards, he could book him for feigned injury, he could throw the ball in on the twenty one for not pucking the ball out when instructed.
Problem is he takes helmet off claims an injury play stops regardless, ref has a word gets a booking or hop ball and the play of slowing it down is still achieved!
Having an injury sin bin won't have desired effect either as it's wasting even more time!! Fullback takes keepers jersey off faffs about and we are no further on.
I'm not a doctor and I'll not take the responsibility of a fake injury or real one. If play is in front of an injured player I'll play on, though the moaning of "head injury, he could be dying" ( I shit you not some shouted that for a wrist injury!!)
But those things I've mentioned are what the ref can do
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 10, 2023, 07:39:56 PM
Quote from: marty34 on July 10, 2023, 07:11:52 PM
Question MR 2.
If Nicky Quaid went down with a contact lense issue - although clearly there was nothing wrong and he was just cleverly slowing things down as Limerick were 6 pts down but Galway had the momentum.
It was clever play acting by an experienced operator.
What is the rule there? Can a ref just say get up, there's nothing wrong and I know what you're at?
We all know what he was at and in fact you can see the ref having a word with him.
He could do what ever he wants and deal with the repercussions afterwards, he could book him for feigned injury, he could throw the ball in on the twenty one for not pucking the ball out when instructed.
Problem is he takes helmet off claims an injury play stops regardless, ref has a word gets a booking or hop ball and the play of slowing it down is still achieved!
Having an injury sin bin won't have desired effect either as it's wasting even more time!! Fullback takes keepers jersey off faffs about and we are no further on.
I'm not a doctor and I'll not take the responsibility of a fake injury or real one. If play is in front of an injured player I'll play on, though the moaning of "head injury, he could be dying" ( I shit you not some shouted that for a wrist injury!!)
But those things I've mentioned are what the ref can do
Correct Mr2 not much the Ref can do in this situation.
It needs looked at from a rules perspective, the umpires are there and can see if there has been contact with the GK to cause an injury of any description. If this is not the case and the GK deliberately takes the helmet off, slowing the game down then I think a 21 yard free as a consequence would soon put a stop to it.
Watch how quickly the helmet would go back on in that situation. Even the threat of this as a punishment makes it too big a risk for a GK to take.
Quote from: NAG1 on July 11, 2023, 09:24:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 10, 2023, 07:39:56 PM
Quote from: marty34 on July 10, 2023, 07:11:52 PM
Question MR 2.
If Nicky Quaid went down with a contact lense issue - although clearly there was nothing wrong and he was just cleverly slowing things down as Limerick were 6 pts down but Galway had the momentum.
It was clever play acting by an experienced operator.
What is the rule there? Can a ref just say get up, there's nothing wrong and I know what you're at?
We all know what he was at and in fact you can see the ref having a word with him.
He could do what ever he wants and deal with the repercussions afterwards, he could book him for feigned injury, he could throw the ball in on the twenty one for not pucking the ball out when instructed.
Problem is he takes helmet off claims an injury play stops regardless, ref has a word gets a booking or hop ball and the play of slowing it down is still achieved!
Having an injury sin bin won't have desired effect either as it's wasting even more time!! Fullback takes keepers jersey off faffs about and we are no further on.
I'm not a doctor and I'll not take the responsibility of a fake injury or real one. If play is in front of an injured player I'll play on, though the moaning of "head injury, he could be dying" ( I shit you not some shouted that for a wrist injury!!)
But those things I've mentioned are what the ref can do
Correct Mr2 not much the Ref can do in this situation.
It needs looked at from a rules perspective, the umpires are there and can see if there has been contact with the GK to cause an injury of any description. If this is not the case and the GK deliberately takes the helmet off, slowing the game down then I think a 21 yard free as a consequence would soon put a stop to it.
Watch how quickly the helmet would go back on in that situation. Even the threat of this as a punishment makes it too big a risk for a GK to take.
Mr. Kiely not happy with people questioning why Quaid went down at that time.
We don't know the facts and don't know his medical history apparently.
Quote from: NAG1 on July 11, 2023, 09:24:17 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 10, 2023, 07:39:56 PM
Quote from: marty34 on July 10, 2023, 07:11:52 PM
Question MR 2.
If Nicky Quaid went down with a contact lense issue - although clearly there was nothing wrong and he was just cleverly slowing things down as Limerick were 6 pts down but Galway had the momentum.
It was clever play acting by an experienced operator.
What is the rule there? Can a ref just say get up, there's nothing wrong and I know what you're at?
We all know what he was at and in fact you can see the ref having a word with him.
He could do what ever he wants and deal with the repercussions afterwards, he could book him for feigned injury, he could throw the ball in on the twenty one for not pucking the ball out when instructed.
Problem is he takes helmet off claims an injury play stops regardless, ref has a word gets a booking or hop ball and the play of slowing it down is still achieved!
Having an injury sin bin won't have desired effect either as it's wasting even more time!! Fullback takes keepers jersey off faffs about and we are no further on.
I'm not a doctor and I'll not take the responsibility of a fake injury or real one. If play is in front of an injured player I'll play on, though the moaning of "head injury, he could be dying" ( I shit you not some shouted that for a wrist injury!!)
But those things I've mentioned are what the ref can do
Correct Mr2 not much the Ref can do in this situation.
It needs looked at from a rules perspective, the umpires are there and can see if there has been contact with the GK to cause an injury of any description. If this is not the case and the GK deliberately takes the helmet off, slowing the game down then I think a 21 yard free as a consequence would soon put a stop to it.
Watch how quickly the helmet would go back on in that situation. Even the threat of this as a punishment makes it too big a risk for a GK to take.
Endemic in the Antrim club game now as well, our lads used to get pissed off at how the more established teams tried to manage the game momentum swings. They are as bad as the rest of them now. Hard to see how you fix it.
Realistically, Quaid can only be dealt with under timewasting rules I'd say.
Quote from: Zooming around on July 11, 2023, 11:06:10 AM
Realistically, Quaid can only be dealt with under timewasting rules I'd say.
Or feigning an injury which is a yellow card
Limerick have all the tricks. I won't miss them.
Quote from: seafoid on July 11, 2023, 11:55:43 AM
Limerick have all the tricks. I won't miss them.
It is game management and teams will always find a way to swing things to their advantage, but when it becomes as blatant and obvious as this it should be an easier fix.
It is definitely more difficult out the field. However if any suspected head injury, requiring the player to remove their helmet ends in a HIA type situation then I suspect there will be less of that too.
The game has to move with the teams, it's a bit of cat and mouse with the rules to ensure the type of thing doesnt detract from the game at all levels.
Quote from: NAG1 on July 11, 2023, 02:17:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 11, 2023, 11:55:43 AM
Limerick have all the tricks. I won't miss them.
It is game management and teams will always find a way to swing things to their advantage, but when it becomes as blatant and obvious as this it should be an easier fix.
It is definitely more difficult out the field. However if any suspected head injury, requiring the player to remove their helmet ends in a HIA type situation then I suspect there will be less of that too.
The game has to move with the teams, it's a bit of cat and mouse with the rules to ensure the type of thing doesnt detract from the game at all levels.
No a bad idea that.
Take helmet off = mandatory HIA assessment off the pitch
Have given no thought to the applicaton of this in a club scenario in fairness, but it would have put the nonsense out of Quaid at the weekend
Quote from: Franko on July 11, 2023, 03:36:50 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on July 11, 2023, 02:17:27 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 11, 2023, 11:55:43 AM
Limerick have all the tricks. I won't miss them.
It is game management and teams will always find a way to swing things to their advantage, but when it becomes as blatant and obvious as this it should be an easier fix.
It is definitely more difficult out the field. However if any suspected head injury, requiring the player to remove their helmet ends in a HIA type situation then I suspect there will be less of that too.
The game has to move with the teams, it's a bit of cat and mouse with the rules to ensure the type of thing doesnt detract from the game at all levels.
No a bad idea that.
Take helmet off = mandatory HIA assessment off the pitch
Have given no thought to the applicaton of this in a club scenario in fairness, but it would have put the nonsense out of Quaid at the weekend
I'm not so sure.
This would eat up the clock for another 2/3 minutes to make a sub, any sort of sub.
That' would suit the team who want to kill the clock.
I'd just throw in ball on 20 m line straight away...then see how quick the keeper gets his helmet on.
The aim of what Quaid did was to break the rhythm of the opposing team. So the only solution is to remove the offending player from the pitch immediately. Anything else punishes the opposing team.
Kiely was a bit ridiculous with some of his comments, doesent even know if Quaid wear contact lenses apparently, it's none of his business ???
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 09, 2023, 11:01:16 PM
There's not a game you could not pick out a grievance with calls. In the main I felt the calls evened themselves out.
Galvin should look back at some of his refereeing decisions over the years. I'd like to see how critical he is of his own strange calls
Yip,
The durty hoorbag denied us a real rattle against Newtownshandrum with our corner forward getting poleaxed by their keeper with the goal at his mercy and them only winning by 2 with 10 minutes to go, played on the big bollox, but hey I'm not bitter ;)
Throughout I thought TJ in particular got a few soft frees (at both ends of the field), Kelly had one given against him when Butler slipped which rightly enraged him and there was no 5 seconds advantage for the disallowed goal, but I think the ref expected Lawlor to hold onto what looked like a routine catch and not spill it...
Yes there were a few soft ones went Clares way but I don't think they "balanced" themselves out over the 70 minutes, but ultimately the losing of this game was in Clares own hands, the sweeper was a mistake, big time, Morey was lost and at the other end Richie Reid was picking out Eoin Cody at will out on the touchlines and he was giving the young lad a torrid time, but I believe he's the real deal and will give any defender out there a torrid time with that type of ball going into him. Kilkenny are too cute to be pucking ball down on top of a sweeper and it was only when the Clare lads pushed up that Kilkenny were in a spot of bother, Reid wasn't dominating in the same manner, the ball out was dirtier, Clare defenders could then attack it more, one for Lohan to learn if they get a chance again next year and there's no reason to think that they won't.
In the first half alone, Cleary blocked a ball straight down to a Kilkenny forward when the obvious thing was to catch it, a short puck out was worked to a midfielder tight on the sideline, Malone I think it was, he was blocked down and resulted in a point, not to mention the KK goal in the second half, defender taking a short puckout and got caught in possession, that and the missed chances, yes some great blocks from the KK midfielder in the first half, fortunate, but forwards need to be driving that into the ground from that range,not to mention Eoin Murphys reaction save right at the end.
(https://www.irishtimes.com/resizer/-Un2UcYIzFyRcFBas_qfxcmD7hs=/1600x0/filters:format(jpg):quality(70)/cloudfront-eu-central-1.images.arcpublishing.com/irishtimes/K7Q7SMLCM5CN2M4HTI5CFV6QVM.jpg)https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gael[hgames/2023/07/12/an-incredible-image-two-year-old-boy-engrossed-by-all-ireland-hurling-semi-final/An incredible image': Two-year-old boy engrossed by All-Ireland hurling semi-finalPhotograph of Kilkenny supporter Fionn McGivern on Croke Park steps goes viral on social media
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A photograph of Fionn McGivern taken during Sunday's senior hurling clash between Kilkenny and Clare at Croke Park has gone viral. Photograph: Inpho/James Crombie
Rory Fleming
Wed Jul 12 2023 - 13:43
Eoin Murphy's goalkeeping heroics saw Kilkenny overcome Clare in Sunday's second All-Ireland senior hurling championship semi-final, but much of the post-match coverage was fixed on an off-the-field matter.
A photograph of an enthralled young Kilkenny fan, Fionn McGivern, was captured by Inpho Photography's James Crombie and went viral on social media after the full-time whistle.
With more than three million views on Twitter to date, the image shows two-year-old Fionn standing in a striking pose along the steps of Croke Park as fans watch the action unfolding on the pitch.
Fionn's father, Brendan, who won an Ulster minor hurling title with Antrim, has hailed the photograph as "incredible".
Mr McGivern explained that Fionn has been "engrossed" by the game of hurling since before he could walk.
"He's only a two-year-old, but he just loves being involved with the game," he said. "Even in and around the house, he's hurling mad and football mad. He's had a hurl in his hand from the time he was struggling to walk, so it's pretty cool to see.
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"He's always loved it, he'll come out to the club games [St Enda's of Glengormley] with me, and he'd be there watching that, and his sister would be up playing her matches which he goes to too, so everyone up in the club knows him."
Fionn McGivern during Sunday's All-Ireland senior hurling clash between Kilkenny and Clare at Croke Park. Photograph: Inpho/James Crombie
The McGivern family hail from Co Antrim, but that did not stop Fionn from cheering on the Black Cats at Croke Park at the weekend. "There's no real link, we're just big GAA fans and he's got a lot of county kits, both him and his sister," said Mr McGivern, adding: "I was always a fan growing up and DJ Carey was always my guy when I was younger."
Thankfully for the McGiverns, Derek Lyng's side overcame the challenge of the Banner county during what was Fionn's first trip to GAA headquarters. "He loved every minute of it and he got a great game for his first one," Mr McGivern said.
He described the reaction that the photograph of his son has imbued as "incredible".
"It really is an incredible image. I think it'll be one of them ones where you never get such an iconic photo again. Everybody is just there focusing on the match, and then there he is, the wee man, stood there by himself. You can see that he's there looking on, engrossed in it, with his pose too," he added.
"A lot of friends and family have reached out, quite a few journalists too, RTÉ and some newspapers got in touch so you can see that the photo really took off."
An incredible image': Two-year-old boy engrossed by All-Ireland hurling semi-finalPhotograph of Kilkenny supporter Fionn McGivern on Croke Park steps goes viral on social media
Eoin Murphy's goalkeeping heroics saw Kilkenny overcome Clare in Sunday's second All-Ireland senior hurling championship semi-final, but much of the post-match coverage was fixed on an off-the-field matter.
A photograph of an enthralled young Kilkenny fan, Fionn McGivern, was captured by Inpho Photography's James Crombie and went viral on social media after the full-time whistle.
With more than three million views on Twitter to date, the image shows two-year-old Fionn standing in a striking pose along the steps of Croke Park as fans watch the action unfolding on the pitch.
Fionn's father, Brendan, who won an Ulster minor hurling title with Antrim, has hailed the photograph as "incredible".
Mr McGivern explained that Fionn has been "engrossed" by the game of hurling since before he could walk.
"He's only a two-year-old, but he just loves being involved with the game," he said. "Even in and around the house, he's hurling mad and football mad. He's had a hurl in his hand from the time he was struggling to walk, so it's pretty cool to see.
Learn more
"He's always loved it, he'll come out to the club games [St Enda's of Glengormley] with me, and he'd be there watching that, and his sister would be up playing her matches which he goes to too, so everyone up in the club knows him."
The McGivern family hail from Co Antrim, but that did not stop Fionn from cheering on the Black Cats at Croke Park at the weekend. "There's no real link, we're just big GAA fans and he's got a lot of county kits, both him and his sister," said Mr McGivern, adding: "I was always a fan growing up and DJ Carey was always my guy when I was younger."
Thankfully for the McGiverns, Derek Lyng's side overcame the challenge of the Banner county during what was Fionn's first trip to GAA headquarters. "He loved every minute of it and he got a great game for his first one," Mr McGivern said.
He described the reaction that the photograph of his son has imbued as "incredible".
"It really is an incredible image. I think it'll be one of them ones where you never get such an iconic photo again. Everybody is just there focusing on the match, and then there he is, the wee man, stood there by himself. You can see that he's there looking on, engrossed in it, with his pose too," he added.
"A lot of friends and family have reached out, quite a few journalists too, RTÉ and some newspapers got in touch so you can see that the photo really took off."
What's the craic with a draw in the final? The 6th August is down for AI hurling final replay if required, would this be if the first game is level on 70 minutes or AET?
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 12, 2023, 03:37:12 PM
What's the craic with a draw in the final? The 6th August is down for AI hurling final replay if required, would this be if the first game is level on 70 minutes or AET?
There is no chance of a draw
Quote from: ClubScene13 on July 12, 2023, 03:37:12 PM
What's the craic with a draw in the final? The 6th August is down for AI hurling final replay if required, would this be if the first game is level on 70 minutes or AET?
Draw after extra for senior finals go to replay
There is a chance of a draw.
Felt the same about ref Jc. Kk wiser about playing the ref than Clare as well but Kelly shafted a couple of times. Limerick are wise to these things too. The free when tj was back in defense when he was lauded for his work rate etc wasn't a free as you say.
Wouldn't mind Kelly, and his histrionics. Actually, serves him right.
Clare lost by one puck of the ball.
The amount of soft frees Kilkenny got were hard to fathom. The free against Tony Kelly when the Kilkenny player slipped, the two frees TJ got in the minutes leading up to halftime, one in his attacking half (which he scored from) then the one in his own full back line, neither were frees.
Clare have a genuine grievance here. Training all year to be on the end of those decisions is hard to stomach.
Go back and watch the first free awarded in the game. The Kilkenny player twice puts his hand in the Clare defender's neck then face. That's 2 men every day of the week.
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 12, 2023, 11:24:35 PM
Clare lost by one puck of the ball.
The amount of soft frees Kilkenny got were hard to fathom. The free against Tony Kelly when the Kilkenny player slipped, the two frees TJ got in the minutes leading up to halftime, one in his attacking half (which he scored from) then the one in his own full back line, neither were frees.
Clare have a genuine grievance here. Training all year to be on the end of those decisions is hard to stomach.
Go back and watch the first free awarded in the game. The Kilkenny player twice puts his hand in the Clare defender's neck then face. That's 2 men every day of the week.
Go back and watch how Clare played the game, hie the defender lost possession that led to a goal, look at the use of the sweeper. There are plenty reasons why Clare lost, blaming the ref is easy though
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 12, 2023, 11:24:35 PM
Clare lost by one puck of the ball.
The amount of soft frees Kilkenny got were hard to fathom. The free against Tony Kelly when the Kilkenny player slipped, the two frees TJ got in the minutes leading up to halftime, one in his attacking half (which he scored from) then the one in his own full back line, neither were frees.
Clare have a genuine grievance here. Training all year to be on the end of those decisions is hard to stomach.
Go back and watch the first free awarded in the game. The Kilkenny player twice puts his hand in the Clare defender's neck then face. That's 2 men every day of the week.
Clare have only themselves to blame.
1. Played a sweeper against KK for first half yet the went toe-to-toe with Limerick in Munster. Bad idea by Lohan.
2. Hit too many wides and from impossible angles.
3. Poor enough bench. No impact.
4. TK was poor.
5. Coughed up a handy goal.
Not the ref's fault the above happened.
Clare would have been 18-17 up ten minutes into the 2nd half only for another poor refereeing decision, that being the disallowed goal.
Clare were on fire for the first 20 minutes of the 2nd half and did take the lead, through their tactics and will to win. They went 2 up, 19-17 and were on top all over the pitch.
The one big mistake Clare made was the conceded goal. Outside of that they did little wrong.
There was one throw ball given the entire game. Who did it go against? Clare!!
Referees circling the wagons is a poor look. Show a little balance in your perspective if you want to be taken seriously.
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 12, 2023, 11:59:28 PM
Clare would have been 18-17 up ten minutes into the 2nd half only for another poor refereeing decision, that being the disallowed goal.
Clare were on fire for the first 20 minutes of the 2nd half and did take the lead, through their tactics and will to win. They went 2 up, 19-17 and were on top all over the pitch.
The one big mistake Clare made was the conceded goal. Outside of that they did little wrong.
There was one throw ball given the entire game. Who did it go against? Clare!!
Referees circling the wagons is a poor look. Show a little balance in your perspective if you want to be taken seriously.
Ok should Clare player been black carded and penalty given?
He probably should have been red carded. It was a bad slap on the hip. Body language from the ref was poor in this incident. No advantage signalled by a raised hand at all but still played advantage. Left the players bemused.
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 13, 2023, 12:16:32 AM
He probably should have been red carded. It was a bad slap on the hip. Body language from the ref was poor in this incident. No advantage signalled by a raised hand at all but still played advantage. Left the players bemused.
So no biased towards Clare, it could've been ( my view was different) an easy penalty Sin bin and no one on reflection would disagree with it.
But still it's he favoured Kilkenny?
The Cats won the game in the first half, Clare came back at them and looked to be on top, boom, Kilkenny goal, job done. Bar a fantastic late save Clare could have squeezed out extra time.
The missed free from 30 meters was awful miss too, 9 wides to 5 but that must have been the ref's fault too
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 12, 2023, 11:24:35 PM
Clare lost by one puck of the ball.
The amount of soft frees Kilkenny got were hard to fathom. The free against Tony Kelly when the Kilkenny player slipped, the two frees TJ got in the minutes leading up to halftime, one in his attacking half (which he scored from) then the one in his own full back line, neither were frees.
Clare have a genuine grievance here. Training all year to be on the end of those decisions is hard to stomach.
Go back and watch the first free awarded in the game. The Kilkenny player twice puts his hand in the Clare defender's neck then face. That's 2 men every day of the week.
Clare should have had at least two black cards which would have resulted in penalties which TJ Reid would have buried plus a red card for the head high tackle on Richie Hogan but of course the ref favoured Kilkenny!!!! Take off the glasses.
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 12, 2023, 11:59:28 PM
Clare would have been 18-17 up ten minutes into the 2nd half only for another poor refereeing decision, that being the disallowed goal.
Clare were on fire for the first 20 minutes of the 2nd half and did take the lead, through their tactics and will to win. They went 2 up, 19-17 and were on top all over the pitch.
The one big mistake Clare made was the conceded goal. Outside of that they did little wrong.
There was one throw ball given the entire game. Who did it go against? Clare!!
Referees circling the wagons is a poor look. Show a little balance in your perspective if you want to be taken seriously.
Whatever about all your other points, there can be no quibbles about the disallowed goal. The whistle clearly sounded before the ball was driven in and the KK defenders had largely stopped playing.
Quote from: Zooming around on July 13, 2023, 09:24:30 AM
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 12, 2023, 11:24:35 PM
Clare lost by one puck of the ball.
The amount of soft frees Kilkenny got were hard to fathom. The free against Tony Kelly when the Kilkenny player slipped, the two frees TJ got in the minutes leading up to halftime, one in his attacking half (which he scored from) then the one in his own full back line, neither were frees.
Clare have a genuine grievance here. Training all year to be on the end of those decisions is hard to stomach.
Go back and watch the first free awarded in the game. The Kilkenny player twice puts his hand in the Clare defender's neck then face. That's 2 men every day of the week.
Clare should have had at least two black cards which would have resulted in penalties which TJ Reid would have buried plus a red card for the head high tackle on Richie Hogan but of course the ref favoured Kilkenny!!!! Take off the glasses.
Oh come on. Ruche Higan clearly overcarried the ball then bought that foul. The commentators all agreed on that. Red card my arse.
Quote from: mouview on July 13, 2023, 09:51:49 AM
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 12, 2023, 11:59:28 PM
Clare would have been 18-17 up ten minutes into the 2nd half only for another poor refereeing decision, that being the disallowed goal.
Clare were on fire for the first 20 minutes of the 2nd half and did take the lead, through their tactics and will to win. They went 2 up, 19-17 and were on top all over the pitch.
The one big mistake Clare made was the conceded goal. Outside of that they did little wrong.
There was one throw ball given the entire game. Who did it go against? Clare!!
Referees circling the wagons is a poor look. Show a little balance in your perspective if you want to be taken seriously.
Whatever about all your other points, there can be no quibbles about the disallowed goal. The whistle clearly sounded before the ball was driven in and the KK defenders had largely stopped playing.
Was the wrong call though. The advantage was poorly applied as it was for the slap on the hip at the other end of the field. The Clare goal was right on the fringe of the 5 second rule. Look at the reaction of the players.
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 13, 2023, 11:10:02 AM
Quote from: mouview on July 13, 2023, 09:51:49 AM
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 12, 2023, 11:59:28 PM
Clare would have been 18-17 up ten minutes into the 2nd half only for another poor refereeing decision, that being the disallowed goal.
Clare were on fire for the first 20 minutes of the 2nd half and did take the lead, through their tactics and will to win. They went 2 up, 19-17 and were on top all over the pitch.
The one big mistake Clare made was the conceded goal. Outside of that they did little wrong.
There was one throw ball given the entire game. Who did it go against? Clare!!
Referees circling the wagons is a poor look. Show a little balance in your perspective if you want to be taken seriously.
Whatever about all your other points, there can be no quibbles about the disallowed goal. The whistle clearly sounded before the ball was driven in and the KK defenders had largely stopped playing.
Was the wrong call though. The advantage was poorly applied as it was for the slap on the hip at the other end of the field. The Clare goal was right on the fringe of the 5 second rule. Look at the reaction of the players.
And the referee. You can see on one of the replays from his facial expression that he knew he called it too early. Not allowing this to affect subsequent decisions is one of the things that sets tops refs apart from the rest. Don't think I could resist trying to even it up ;D
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 13, 2023, 11:27:42 AM
Looked to me that he saw that ball being caught by the Kilkenny back and went to blow the whistle to call it back. As he's doing so the Kilkenny back drops the catch and of course it's put into the net. When you blow the whistle you can't unblow it.
It's unfortunate and I'm sure the referee looks back and wishes he waited but it is literally a split second decision. I wouldn't be too hard on him.
It was a 5 second decision, he could, and I know I've went well beyond 5 seconds to see how it develops but yeah, while he was actually clocked correctly, I'm sure looking back he wishes he'd have seen him drop the ball and we'd all be saying the ref was brilliant, but for now he's just a ......
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2023, 11:32:25 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 13, 2023, 11:27:42 AM
Looked to me that he saw that ball being caught by the Kilkenny back and went to blow the whistle to call it back. As he's doing so the Kilkenny back drops the catch and of course it's put into the net. When you blow the whistle you can't unblow it.
It's unfortunate and I'm sure the referee looks back and wishes he waited but it is literally a split second decision. I wouldn't be too hard on him.
It was a 5 second decision, he could, and I know I've went well beyond 5 seconds to see how it develops but yeah, while he was actually clocked correctly, I'm sure looking back he wishes he'd have seen him drop the ball and we'd all be saying the ref was brilliant, but for now he's just a ......
Was he? It didn't feel like 5 seconds at the time...
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 13, 2023, 11:06:29 AM
Quote from: Zooming around on July 13, 2023, 09:24:30 AM
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 12, 2023, 11:24:35 PM
Clare lost by one puck of the ball.
The amount of soft frees Kilkenny got were hard to fathom. The free against Tony Kelly when the Kilkenny player slipped, the two frees TJ got in the minutes leading up to halftime, one in his attacking half (which he scored from) then the one in his own full back line, neither were frees.
Clare have a genuine grievance here. Training all year to be on the end of those decisions is hard to stomach.
Go back and watch the first free awarded in the game. The Kilkenny player twice puts his hand in the Clare defender's neck then face. That's 2 men every day of the week.
Clare should have had at least two black cards which would have resulted in penalties which TJ Reid would have buried plus a red card for the head high tackle on Richie Hogan but of course the ref favoured Kilkenny!!!! Take off the glasses.
Oh come on. Ruche Higan clearly overcarried the ball then bought that foul. The commentators all agreed on that. Red card my arse.
I have no intention of getting into a discussion on your arse.
He was hit with a shoulder to the head. A clear red card.
Quote from: johnnycool on July 13, 2023, 11:47:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2023, 11:32:25 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 13, 2023, 11:27:42 AM
Looked to me that he saw that ball being caught by the Kilkenny back and went to blow the whistle to call it back. As he's doing so the Kilkenny back drops the catch and of course it's put into the net. When you blow the whistle you can't unblow it.
It's unfortunate and I'm sure the referee looks back and wishes he waited but it is literally a split second decision. I wouldn't be too hard on him.
It was a 5 second decision, he could, and I know I've went well beyond 5 seconds to see how it develops but yeah, while he was actually clocked correctly, I'm sure looking back he wishes he'd have seen him drop the ball and we'd all be saying the ref was brilliant, but for now he's just a ......
Was he? It didn't feel like 5 seconds at the time...
I timed it at the time of the first replay, 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, ;)
In fairness, I was on my 4th pint of Guinness but it was 5 not 4
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2023, 01:26:37 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 13, 2023, 11:47:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2023, 11:32:25 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 13, 2023, 11:27:42 AM
Looked to me that he saw that ball being caught by the Kilkenny back and went to blow the whistle to call it back. As he's doing so the Kilkenny back drops the catch and of course it's put into the net. When you blow the whistle you can't unblow it.
It's unfortunate and I'm sure the referee looks back and wishes he waited but it is literally a split second decision. I wouldn't be too hard on him.
It was a 5 second decision, he could, and I know I've went well beyond 5 seconds to see how it develops but yeah, while he was actually clocked correctly, I'm sure looking back he wishes he'd have seen him drop the ball and we'd all be saying the ref was brilliant, but for now he's just a ......
Was he? It didn't feel like 5 seconds at the time...
I timed it at the time of the first replay, 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, ;)
In fairness, I was on my 4th pint of Guinness but it was 5 not 4
It wasn't clocked properly. He didn't wait the full 5 seconds. Think Lawlor dropped the ball just shy of 4 seconds. Does a ref just count in their head in those instances? It's not as if he has time to set a stopwatch ?
Quote from: Kidder81 on July 13, 2023, 01:31:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2023, 01:26:37 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 13, 2023, 11:47:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2023, 11:32:25 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 13, 2023, 11:27:42 AM
Looked to me that he saw that ball being caught by the Kilkenny back and went to blow the whistle to call it back. As he's doing so the Kilkenny back drops the catch and of course it's put into the net. When you blow the whistle you can't unblow it.
It's unfortunate and I'm sure the referee looks back and wishes he waited but it is literally a split second decision. I wouldn't be too hard on him.
It was a 5 second decision, he could, and I know I've went well beyond 5 seconds to see how it develops but yeah, while he was actually clocked correctly, I'm sure looking back he wishes he'd have seen him drop the ball and we'd all be saying the ref was brilliant, but for now he's just a ......
Was he? It didn't feel like 5 seconds at the time...
I timed it at the time of the first replay, 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, ;)
In fairness, I was on my 4th pint of Guinness but it was 5 not 4
It wasn't clocked properly. He didn't wait the full 5 seconds. Think Lawlor dropped the ball just shy of 4 seconds. Does a ref just count in their head in those instances? It's not as if he has time to set a stopwatch ?
What minute of the game was it? I'll get the stopwatch out, time it from the second of the free and moment he blew
edit.. 44th minute
I clocked it at 4.89 seconds..
He'll need to work on his Mississippi's
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2023, 01:43:24 PM
Quote from: Kidder81 on July 13, 2023, 01:31:03 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2023, 01:26:37 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 13, 2023, 11:47:00 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2023, 11:32:25 AM
Quote from: Duine Inteacht Eile on July 13, 2023, 11:27:42 AM
Looked to me that he saw that ball being caught by the Kilkenny back and went to blow the whistle to call it back. As he's doing so the Kilkenny back drops the catch and of course it's put into the net. When you blow the whistle you can't unblow it.
It's unfortunate and I'm sure the referee looks back and wishes he waited but it is literally a split second decision. I wouldn't be too hard on him.
It was a 5 second decision, he could, and I know I've went well beyond 5 seconds to see how it develops but yeah, while he was actually clocked correctly, I'm sure looking back he wishes he'd have seen him drop the ball and we'd all be saying the ref was brilliant, but for now he's just a ......
Was he? It didn't feel like 5 seconds at the time...
I timed it at the time of the first replay, 1 Mississippi, 2 Mississippi, ;)
In fairness, I was on my 4th pint of Guinness but it was 5 not 4
It wasn't clocked properly. He didn't wait the full 5 seconds. Think Lawlor dropped the ball just shy of 4 seconds. Does a ref just count in their head in those instances? It's not as if he has time to set a stopwatch ?
What minute of the game was it? I'll get the stopwatch out, time it from the second of the free and moment he blew
edit.. 44th minute
I clocked it at 4.89 seconds..
He'll need to work on his Mississippi's
Did it again and it was 5.35 seconds.. I don't know now! Either way he blew possibly quicker than what you would see normally in games, I'm around 10 seconds depending on how I'm feeling ;D
Can we get back to the hurling?
Quote from: marty34 on July 13, 2023, 04:17:27 PM
Can we get back to the hurling?
Limerick will miss Sean Finn to stifle Eoin Cody, but Mr Cody won't get the same space as he did on Sunday past....
Expecting a Limerick win by 5 or 6. They're hitting form at the right time for me.
I hope KK win and I don't say that much with them.
Should be going down, and the craic's mighty but something missing these last few years, maybe it's the stand alone game I don't know. But sure it's the showpiece event and if Kilkenny start as well and can get a bitta or regain some momentum in the second half they'll do alright, if their wide count is similar that'll help
John Keenan got the final I see. Will be a tough game to referee. Limerick are very physical. Don't think there'll be one score in it this time.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2023, 05:11:26 PM
Should be going down, and the craic's mighty but something missing these last few years, maybe it's the stand alone game I don't know. But sure it's the showpiece event and if Kilkenny start as well and can get a bitta or regain some momentum in the second half they'll do alright, if their wide count is similar that'll help
If kilkenny start well Quaid will take off his helmet.
Quote from: seafoid on July 13, 2023, 08:08:44 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 13, 2023, 05:11:26 PM
Should be going down, and the craic's mighty but something missing these last few years, maybe it's the stand alone game I don't know. But sure it's the showpiece event and if Kilkenny start as well and can get a bitta or regain some momentum in the second half they'll do alright, if their wide count is similar that'll help
If kilkenny start well Quaid will take off his helmet.
Not a good look I'd imagine
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 13, 2023, 08:04:45 PM
John Keenan got the final I see. Will be a tough game to referee. Limerick are very physical. Don't think there'll be one score in it this time.
We'll be discussing the amount of throw balls by Limerick after the game.
An exhibition of how to officiate by the Tyrone referee in the Dublin v Monaghan game.
Quote from: Jonkunlon on July 15, 2023, 06:52:02 PM
An exhibition of how to officiate by the Tyrone referee in the Dublin v Monaghan game.
It's a pity he doesn't do both
All Ireland Final this weekend. Same two as last year and last year was a classic. Limerick will rightly be hot favourites, their record in finals under Kiely is exceptional.
Looking back on last years final Limerick have got Cian Lynch back to some degree but have lost Finn and Hannon which is a bad blow. The Cats have a new manager and slightly modified style. I think the Cats are fractionally better than last year but I don't think a fractional improvement will beat limerick who are still the best team in the country by some distance when they put their mind to it.
Quote from: keep her low this half on July 17, 2023, 03:32:27 PM
All Ireland Final this weekend. Same two as last year and last year was a classic. Limerick will rightly be hot favourites, their record in finals under Kiely is exceptional.
Looking back on last years final Limerick have got Cian Lynch back to some degree but have lost Finn and Hannon which is a bad blow. The Cats have a new manager and slightly modified style. I think the Cats are fractionally better than last year but I don't think a fractional improvement will beat limerick who are still the best team in the country by some distance when they put their mind to it.
Can't argue with much of that. Only chink I could find really is that Cian Lynch still isn't firing like he can, as of yet. Think teams have realised the middle 3rd is where the battle is with Limerick and have flooded this zone with bodies which has limited his effectiveness. That being said he could still rock up on Sunday with a storming performance, he is the type for it.
Is Hannon definitely missing?
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 17, 2023, 03:43:07 PM
Is Hannon definitely missing?
I thought I'd read after the semi-final that they were giving him every chance of being ready, might just have been paper talk.
Quote from: NAG1 on July 17, 2023, 03:41:30 PM
Quote from: keep her low this half on July 17, 2023, 03:32:27 PM
All Ireland Final this weekend. Same two as last year and last year was a classic. Limerick will rightly be hot favourites, their record in finals under Kiely is exceptional.
Looking back on last years final Limerick have got Cian Lynch back to some degree but have lost Finn and Hannon which is a bad blow. The Cats have a new manager and slightly modified style. I think the Cats are fractionally better than last year but I don't think a fractional improvement will beat limerick who are still the best team in the country by some distance when they put their mind to it.
Can't argue with much of that. Only chink I could find really is that Cian Lynch still isn't firing like he can, as of yet. Think teams have realised the middle 3rd is where the battle is with Limerick and have flooded this zone with bodies which has limited his effectiveness. That being said he could still rock up on Sunday with a storming performance, he is the type for it.
Lynch just isn't motoring full pelt at all, he thrives in the close confines and when on song, sees the better option and has the ability to get the ball to them, no zip to him as yet for me, he finds that on Sunday and he'll cause problems. Cathal O'Neill is some backup all the same, he's start all day, every day in every other team in the country.
who picks up Flanaghan and Guillane? Lawlor probably on Guillane and that'll be a battle royal, but as much as Butler is a wee sticky bollox I think Flanaghan may have too much power for him, horse of a man also. I like big rangy Blanchfield but he'll be needed further out the field on any of the bastes Limerick to put in there, so it could be on hands on deck in there.
Richie Reid won't be allowed to play as a quarterback and if he does sit deep in the pocket then expect Limerick to create overlaps out the field and pop over the points.
It's a conundrum how to outplay Limerick and whilst I do think Kilkenny may be able to match them mostly for physicality in the middle part of the park I think Limericks experience will see this out UNLESS Eoin Cody can bag a few goals if he's getting a good supply of ball and I'm not so sure Limerick will make the same mistakes as Clare..
A lot will depend on whether Hannon will play. I have been calling for Limericks downfall so far this year as well as Lynch Hegarty hasn't been as dominant as he has in previous years. So I am tipping Kilkenny.
Quote from: Capt Pat on July 17, 2023, 06:51:16 PM
A lot will depend on whether Hannon will play. I have been calling for Limericks downfall so far this year as well as Lynch Hegarty hasn't been as dominant as he has in previous years. So I am tipping Kilkenny.
Hegarty showing signs he is coming to the boil the last day out.
KK will have to have a wonder day IMO. Limerick just have so many game winners all over the field.
Folks, any inkling that the GAA might put some unsold tickets on Ticketmaster like last year?
Quote from: Hurler on the Bitch on July 18, 2023, 02:33:19 PM
Folks, any inkling that the GAA might put some unsold tickets on Ticketmaster like last year?
Give Frankie Quinn a shout, you being an Antrim man and all
It's Limerick's to lose, they've more match winners and can still win if a couple of them are quiet. Kilkenny have no such luxury, everyone will need to play the game of their lives to have a chance.
Limerick's only black mark in the last 5 years was surprisingly losing to Kilkenny in 2019. They'll surely still be sore about that.
While Kilkenny ran them to 2 points last year, it never felt like there was going to be an upset. I also think that Cody felt that this was a good time to go as they'd probably overachieved with the talent to hand.
Kilkenny would need more goals, or a ref who gets strict on Limerick's physicality to cause a shock.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on July 18, 2023, 11:04:23 PM
It's Limerick's to lose, they've more match winners and can still win if a couple of them are quiet. Kilkenny have no such luxury, everyone will need to play the game of their lives to have a chance.
Limerick's only black mark in the last 5 years was surprisingly losing to Kilkenny in 2019. They'll surely still be sore about that.
While Kilkenny ran them to 2 points last year, it never felt like there was going to be an upset. I also think that Cody felt that this was a good time to go as they'd probably overachieved with the talent to hand.
Kilkenny would need more goals, or a r
And their hand passes.
Quote from: marty34 on July 18, 2023, 11:14:57 PM
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on July 18, 2023, 11:04:23 PM
It's Limerick's to lose, they've more match winners and can still win if a couple of them are quiet. Kilkenny have no such luxury, everyone will need to play the game of their lives to have a chance.
Limerick's only black mark in the last 5 years was surprisingly losing to Kilkenny in 2019. They'll surely still be sore about that.
While Kilkenny ran them to 2 points last year, it never felt like there was going to be an upset. I also think that Cody felt that this was a good time to go as they'd probably overachieved with the talent to hand.
Kilkenny would need more goals, or a r
And their hand passes.
Are they any worse in relation to hand passing than anyone else?
They have improved upon it IMO, but I've seen plenty of Clare,Galway,KK, Cork, Waterford lads hand passing being dubious as well!
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on July 18, 2023, 11:04:23 PM
It's Limerick's to lose, they've more match winners and can still win if a couple of them are quiet. Kilkenny have no such luxury, everyone will need to play the game of their lives to have a chance.
Limerick's only black mark in the last 5 years was surprisingly losing to Kilkenny in 2019. They'll surely still be sore about that.
While Kilkenny ran them to 2 points last year, it never felt like there was going to be an upset. I also think that Cody felt that this was a good time to go as they'd probably overachieved with the talent to hand.
Kilkenny would need more goals, or a ref who gets strict on Limerick's physicality to cause a shock.
Kilkenny hurling has prided itself in it's physicality and they won't be found wanting in that regard either when it comes to it on Sunday, I just think Limerick have that bit more "Grace under pressure" all over the park when it gets close.
Hoping for a humdinger on Sunday but it doesn't always bear out like that, Limerick going for 4-in-a-row (and 5 out of 6) and Kilkenny looking to get their first since 2015, that's almost famine like times down on the Noreside, let alone the prospect of losing 2 AI finals in a row against Limerick will add it's own pressures to this particular set of Kilkenny players still living in the shadow of their great teams of the 00's and 10's.
(https://scontent.fdub7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/361907407_836034924557466_6453376866249663764_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=9H3Um8LOkNsAX_UaeSD&_nc_oc=AQlM51t9QrPkfXjWkpZC9LuelGPyG6QtaZIJBVAeoTMj2DrLj8VuPZOSiumqVVPAAfM&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub7-1.fna&oh=00_AfCNu175Fuzt4TWPvlT6EyrCyrz1wTlqrhBGlPSKci_E4w&oe=64BCA1E4)
(https://scontent.fdub7-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/361855533_836030517891240_7766508479248590547_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p180x540&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=vzH1a2KfHxMAX-KKlzc&_nc_ht=scontent.fdub7-1.fna&oh=00_AfBv-ENFNTmjmhs2DrRIkVO_K0o8sgIBYHUukpF_QzHx-g&oe=64BC7E21)
Kilkenny's star man for me now is Eoin Cody...
It's a hard one to call, Limerick always seem to find that extra gear or ability to tag 3 in a row scores to stay ahead, TJ will keep the scoreboard ticking over, but he can't afford to miss one of those free's the whole match.
Cody is one aggressive fecker and will take on the Limerick attack, resulting in frees and scoreable chances, Lawlor will have some battle with Aaron, that will be worth the admission fee alone.
If Limerick are on top in those areas and the Kilkenny players elsewhere don't stand up then it could be the same result as last year, close but never going to win.
Kilkenny need the same start to their games that they have been having, but can't fold when the green tidal wave eventually comes, they'll have to manage to have a purple patch in the second half to actually be in with a chance
Looking forward to the craic and banter around the ground on Sunday, usual pints in Maghers, if the forecast is right we might get some dry skies and a shower or two
Limerick had a 45 year long famine. Kilkenny's is 8 years
Hannon is still missing for Limerick so I will stick with Kilkenny. I am not certain if Limericks 9 point win over Galway is a true indication of their form. I expect a close game and I am not sure which way it will go.
A great article about Neil McManus
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/07/22/id-have-loved-to-have-played-in-a-game-like-we-are-going-to-see-on-sunday-neil-mcmanus/
No team from the past of present could live with how Limerick played in the last 45 minutes against Galway.
Limerick should win but some day soon they're going to fall off the cliff. Very hard to keep coming back every year with mainly the same cast.
Seems, going by weather forecast, it will be a rainy one tomorrow, not sure if there will be any team that'll benefit from that
Weather awful in around North Dublin. Hasn't stopped raining all morning.
Hard to know who to want to win this one. I would prefer to see limerick's dominance broken but kk have dominated plenty over the years so tbh I'd rather see someone else bar them break the dominance.
is there no sort of final on before all ireland any more.
Lee Chin that tough he's walking round Dublin in a t-shirt in that weather. Never seen as many nosey people looking on TV.
Blanchfield out for Kilkenny... That's a big loss for them, abrasive hurler with aerial power which I felt they needed.
Kilkenny with a 6 point lead after 28 minutes. Maybe its their day.
When lynch gets the ball things happen. Still very tight. Cody looking for goals flat out. Mullen in midfield having a surprisingly off game.
Expect limerick to win this yet.
Limerick will wear them down eventually. There is such a difference in the physiques of the 2 sides, Limerick must be the biggest most imposing GAA side ever.
Half time Kilkenny 1-9 Limerick 0-9. Deserved lead at the break for Kilkenny but with the wind advantage it's doubtful if a 3 point lead will be enough come the end of this game.
Some response from Limerick since the 2nd Kilkenny goal
Too many KK lads taking too much out of it and giving cheap turnovers.
When Limerick go up a gear there's not much point in anyone trying against them. They're just better.
Turned into a shooting drill for Limerick in 2nd half. Outscored kk 1.5 to 19 points so far in the second half
Some insane scores from Limerick here. Incredible team and am absolutely monstrous performance. They kept Gillane relatively quiet, especially in second half and I say relatively only because of his impossibly high standards. Flanagan and Tom Morrissey relatively quiet as well and then so many others step up.
KK def had a chance to win this year but they needed everyone to turn up. Walter didn't work out at all and had a few terrible shots, Mullen couldn't get into the game at all and I'm not sure Cody has touched the ball in the second half.
On top of everything, limerick's touch is still noticeably leagues ahead.
Full Time Kilkenny 2-15 Limerick 0-30. Outstanding 2nd half performance by Limerick showed why they are the best team in Ireland have won four in a row and will be hard stopped winning 5 in a row next year.
What a team. Began to feel sorry for kk at the end.
Give them the f**king cup, Larry.
They nearly didn't make it against Cork but there can be no denying their domination of the game continues with the 4 in a row. The only question is will 5 be possible?
Quote from: gallsman on July 23, 2023, 05:00:13 PM
Some insane scores from Limerick here. Incredible team and am absolutely monstrous performance. They kept Gillane relatively quiet, especially in second half and I say relatively only because of his impossibly high standards. Flanagan and Tom Morrissey relatively quiet as well and then so many others step up.
KK def had a chance to win this year but they needed everyone to turn up. Walter didn't work out at all and had a few terrible shots, Mullen couldn't get into the game at all and I'm not sure Cody has touched the ball in the second half.
On top of everything, limerick's touch is still noticeably leagues ahead.
Limerick 94 were real. These multiple winners in football and hurling backed by money that nobody else gets it's not GAA
the only narriative the media could spin in can limerick do 4 in a row
Longest speech ever.
Has Varadkar got his own personal bodyguard?
Quote from: seafoid on July 23, 2023, 05:13:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 23, 2023, 05:00:13 PM
Some insane scores from Limerick here. Incredible team and am absolutely monstrous performance. They kept Gillane relatively quiet, especially in second half and I say relatively only because of his impossibly high standards. Flanagan and Tom Morrissey relatively quiet as well and then so many others step up.
KK def had a chance to win this year but they needed everyone to turn up. Walter didn't work out at all and had a few terrible shots, Mullen couldn't get into the game at all and I'm not sure Cody has touched the ball in the second half.
On top of everything, limerick's touch is still noticeably leagues ahead.
Limerick 94 were real. These multiple winners in football and hurling backed by money that nobody else gets it's not GAA
No amount of €€€€ can put the ball over the bar like Peter Casey did in that second half...
Fantastic team, just enjoy them for the time that's in it
RTE interviewer asked Casey about his "cameo" lolol.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 23, 2023, 05:15:43 PM
Longest speech ever.
There are a lot of people to thank........
Quote from: gallsman on July 23, 2023, 04:38:33 PM
Too many KK lads taking too much out of it and giving cheap turnovers.
I'd say if you were sitting in the stands you would see that there very few options on for the lad in possession, so took the ball into contact and lost it more often than not. No point lumping high ball in the second half, Limerick got the measure of that with O'Donoghue staying very deep. Cody was taken out of the game also, no space for the ball in front of him, only option for Kilkenny was to work it around the middle to get a long range point but Limerick even had that closed down.
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 23, 2023, 05:44:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 23, 2023, 05:15:43 PM
Longest speech ever.
There are a lot of people to thank........
Ha ha, I thought the supporters were allowed on the pitch at the end, but that was only the players and coaches families ;D
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 23, 2023, 05:44:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 23, 2023, 05:15:43 PM
Longest speech ever.
There are a lot of people to thank........
I'm of the opinion that speeches should be done away with.
Quote from: jcpen on July 23, 2023, 06:26:10 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 23, 2023, 05:44:24 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 23, 2023, 05:15:43 PM
Longest speech ever.
There are a lot of people to thank........
I'm of the opinion that speeches should be done away with.
I'm not, it's the winning counties day. A day that may never happen soon again, so saviour it.
The losing fans are well down Jones Road and the TV viewership can switch to Netflix.
whole thing had a meh feeling to it to me limerick win again Kilkenny in final again
I said before if Kilkenny start well they have to get a patch of dominance later, they didn't take advantage of that second goal, Limerick are amazing at building on momentum.
Can't see Limerick bate next few years
Limerick completely took over after the goal. Kilkenny couldn't win a scrap in the Limerick half at all. Some poor decisions made as well by the cats playing short balls from sidelines and getting swamped. It's a long time since I saw Kilkenny look so ordinary. Hopefully someone can rise to Limericks level but I don't see the depth in talent in any of the other contenders to be honest. Kilkenny got no impact from the bench at all.
Quote from: thejuice on July 23, 2023, 07:13:30 PM
Limerick completely took over after the goal. Kilkenny couldn't win a scrap in the Limerick half at all. Some poor decisions made as well by the cats playing short balls from sidelines and getting swamped. It's a long time since I saw Kilkenny look so ordinary. Hopefully someone can rise to Limericks level but I don't see the depth in talent in any of the other contenders to be honest. Kilkenny got no impact from the bench at all.
It's the sheer size and physicality that opposition teams can't cope with. Limerick looked like about 3 years ahead of Kilkenny from an S&C point of view, it was so noticeable even when Kilkenny were leading that eventually Limerick would grind them down in the second half. They simply couldn't match that level of intensity and completely suffocated and over powered Kilkenny. They're the biggest machine that the GAA has seen, greater than even the Dublin footballers at their peak I'd say.
Fantastic Limerick performance.
But the level of thrown hand passes is now off the charts. And I done care if theres a mm of space that only geniuses can see. When will someone stand up and call this out?
Quote from: didlyi on July 23, 2023, 07:57:07 PM
Fantastic Limerick performance.
But the level of thrown hand passes is now off the charts. And I done care if theres a mm of space that only geniuses can see. When will someone stand up and call this out?
Duignan will never mention the throwing of the ball.
It's gone beyond a joke at this stage
Quote from: didlyi on July 23, 2023, 07:57:07 PM
Fantastic Limerick performance.
But the level of thrown hand passes is now off the charts. And I done care if theres a mm of space that only geniuses can see. When will someone stand up and call this out?
They also have difficulty with
What the F**k a foul is? One minute you get a free for all of wallops and belts. Next minute it's a free for a bit of hanky panky and a offended fist pumping the air.
What a team Limerick are, I thought at the start of the year they were unbeatable (when it matters) & it's proved to be the case
Amazing mentality, they never panic
I thought kilkenny's touch was at times poor and they reverted to long balls a lot. They did a great job keeping gillane and Flanagan so quiet but they lost nearly every other battle on the field barring Cody in the first half.
It was very similar to the Galway game. It's like limerick suss out your tactics in the first twenty to twenty five minutes then make their changes and that's that.
Again only people complaining are big ballers.
Well ref'd some fouls missed but no Spanish Inquisition needed
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2023, 09:53:32 PM
Again only people complaining are big ballers.
Well ref'd some fouls missed but no Spanish Inquisition needed
Thought Keenan did well, not an easy game to ref with those conditions. That's him down and dusted as an IC ref as he has turned 50
Quote from: Kidder81 on July 23, 2023, 10:21:15 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2023, 09:53:32 PM
Again only people complaining are big ballers.
Well ref'd some fouls missed but no Spanish Inquisition needed
Thought Keenan did well, not an easy game to ref with those conditions. That's him down and dusted as an IC ref as he has turned 50
Which is crazy, another top ref stepped down also cause he's 50! I want to know the logic to that
I find it very puzzling that Diarmaid Byrnes wasn't nominated for man of the match.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2023, 09:53:32 PM
Again only people complaining are big ballers.
Well ref'd some fouls missed but no Spanish Inquisition needed
He did good job that's why no one complaining... Also the game wasn' really close which it was in the football.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on July 23, 2023, 11:50:44 PM
I find it very puzzling that Diarmaid Byrnes wasn't nominated for man of the match.
Yeah absolute nonsense, outside of his general play scoring 0-8 from half back in AIF. A monster point from play, difficult frees in poor conditions (for most other players) towering catch when they were turning the tide. I thought he was immense
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on July 23, 2023, 11:50:44 PM
I find it very puzzling that Diarmaid Byrnes wasn't nominated for man of the match.
Agree with this. Won a lot of ball and scored some pressure frees when Limerick struggling.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 23, 2023, 05:10:29 PM
What a team. Began to feel sorry for kk at the end.
Wouldn't feel supporters. An arrogant bunch.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 07:20:55 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 23, 2023, 09:53:32 PM
Again only people complaining are big ballers.
Well ref'd some fouls missed but no Spanish Inquisition needed
He did good job that's why no one complaining... Also the game wasn' really close which it was in the football.
So when the games close the ref is shit ;D
The crazy thing about yesterday was Kilkenny have improved this year, they were able to really go at Limerick and at halftime there was a belief that there could be an upset, by the time I'd finished my pint at halftime, there was a point in it!
There was a huge press on the puck outs resulting in Limericks halfback line winning nearly all of them, cleanly I might add, and the short puck outs were hounded until the coughed up possession, the accuracy was off the chart, nearly everything they hit went over in that second half
Kilkenny needed a plan to stop that momentum, but couldn't engineer a free or tack over scoreable chances, they needed to try and either bypass that half backline or shot long distance
I remember Wexford back in the day when Kilkenny dominated and had a similar half back line to Limericks, and Wexford used the short pass and running game to counteract the Kilkenny's half back line, and it worked for a while if I remember well, they got goals
Whatever needs done to break their dominance, its going to take a serious effort, cause you can't go toe to toe with these boys
Or when it's close calls can have a major bearing on the outcome ;D
Kilkenny reverted to type a lot too though so while they improved this year in nearly all of their games I kind of felt they regressed a bit yesterday.
Hard to see Limerick's dominance being broken any time soon. Finn to come back in, Lynch to get a good year behind him, Hannon to come back etc. I dunno how they'll fit all those players in if they're all fit.
Hayes right pick for POTY. Beast of a man.
Game kind of played out how I expected it too.
KK completely flooded the middle third and had serious joy in that first 30mins.
Lynch turned up in a big way and had a massive impact on turning the game back towards Limerick.
Serious sign of a team, when the two most prolific forwards were largely kept out of the game and the third Casey pops up and has a wonder game.
Although KK did make a game of it, there is a lingering feeling that Clare would have made for a better final.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 09:12:53 AM
Or when it's close calls can have a major bearing on the outcome ;D
Kilkenny reverted to type a lot too though so while they improved this year in nearly all of their games I kind of felt they regressed a bit yesterday.
Hard to see Limerick's dominance being broken any time soon. Finn to come back in, Lynch to get a good year behind him, Hannon to come back etc. I dunno how they'll fit all those players in if they're all fit.
Hayes right pick for POTY. Beast of a man.
Don't see that Kilkenny improved this year. Got a lot of lucky breaks to reach the final and Reid didn't actually score from play yesterday or in the semi. Four of their forwards were swapped out yesterday, (did Billy Ryan even touch the ball?) and midfield beaten up a stick. If anything, the scoreline flattered Kilkenny yesterday, very mediocre team by their standards. Gave a much better account of themselves in last year's decider.
Quote from: mouview on July 24, 2023, 11:13:03 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 09:12:53 AM
Or when it's close calls can have a major bearing on the outcome ;D
Kilkenny reverted to type a lot too though so while they improved this year in nearly all of their games I kind of felt they regressed a bit yesterday.
Hard to see Limerick's dominance being broken any time soon. Finn to come back in, Lynch to get a good year behind him, Hannon to come back etc. I dunno how they'll fit all those players in if they're all fit.
Hayes right pick for POTY. Beast of a man.
Don't see that Kilkenny improved this year. Got a lot of lucky breaks to reach the final and Reid didn't actually score from play yesterday or in the semi. Four of their forwards were swapped out yesterday, (did Billy Ryan even touch the ball?) and midfield beaten up a stick. If anything, the scoreline flattered Kilkenny yesterday, very mediocre team by their standards. Gave a much better account of themselves in last year's decider.
reminscent of the Galway semi
Quote from: mouview on July 24, 2023, 11:13:03 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 09:12:53 AM
Or when it's close calls can have a major bearing on the outcome ;D
Kilkenny reverted to type a lot too though so while they improved this year in nearly all of their games I kind of felt they regressed a bit yesterday.
Hard to see Limerick's dominance being broken any time soon. Finn to come back in, Lynch to get a good year behind him, Hannon to come back etc. I dunno how they'll fit all those players in if they're all fit.
Hayes right pick for POTY. Beast of a man.
Don't see that Kilkenny improved this year. Got a lot of lucky breaks to reach the final and Reid didn't actually score from play yesterday or in the semi. Four of their forwards were swapped out yesterday, (did Billy Ryan even touch the ball?) and midfield beaten up a stick. If anything, the scoreline flattered Kilkenny yesterday, very mediocre team by their standards. Gave a much better account of themselves in last year's decider.
Tbh maybe when you think about it they haven't improved that much. I would say this though - they were pretty much too good for Clare. While that was tight and there was the odd call here or there you never really got the feeling Clare would win that game. Yes they were lucky enough against Galway mind you.
I don't think against a team as physical as Limerick some of their players are quite at that physical level. I don't think any other team is mind you.
Reid can do a lot without scoring too though. I think he struggled yesterday but he did cause bother against Clare.
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2023, 11:28:10 AM
Quote from: mouview on July 24, 2023, 11:13:03 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 09:12:53 AM
Or when it's close calls can have a major bearing on the outcome ;D
Kilkenny reverted to type a lot too though so while they improved this year in nearly all of their games I kind of felt they regressed a bit yesterday.
Hard to see Limerick's dominance being broken any time soon. Finn to come back in, Lynch to get a good year behind him, Hannon to come back etc. I dunno how they'll fit all those players in if they're all fit.
Hayes right pick for POTY. Beast of a man.
Don't see that Kilkenny improved this year. Got a lot of lucky breaks to reach the final and Reid didn't actually score from play yesterday or in the semi. Four of their forwards were swapped out yesterday, (did Billy Ryan even touch the ball?) and midfield beaten up a stick. If anything, the scoreline flattered Kilkenny yesterday, very mediocre team by their standards. Gave a much better account of themselves in last year's decider.
reminscent of the Galway semi
Wonder will Anthony 'Dalo' start spouting about Kilkenny going out with "zero honour" yesterday?
What is the tactical way to beat them?
There aren't many chinks in the armour and they seem to be able to adapt in game to various scenarios.
Also they are bringing players off the bench who would be starting on most if not all the other teams, similar to Dublin in the football few years ago.
Quote from: NAG1 on July 24, 2023, 01:24:00 PM
What is the tactical way to beat them?
There aren't many chinks in the armour and they seem to be able to adapt in game to various scenarios.
Also they are bringing players off the bench who would be starting on most if not all the other teams, similar to Dublin in the football few years ago.
Yeah and maybe Cork are coming, hard to tell but that Kilkenny team is on the wane & last year was probably the best of them. Quite a few the wrong side of 30
Always hear people saying you have to weather that third quarter Limerick storm, how though ?
Scoring 30 points in those conditions is obscene
They're exactly like dublin and would beat the best of the rest. Twice in a row now teams think they have sussed them out in the first 25 minutes or so and they have just analysed things, tweaked things and then blew the opposition away.
Teams that get a great start on them can't then deal with the intensity that comes when they get motoring, so fitness wise for starters Limerick are staying the full 73mins of the game, physically they are on top, their fielding of the ball is hard to beat and their accuracy is amazing.
They have a half back line that is gobbling up high ball, that ball is laid off to a runner or into space for someone to collect turn and score.
So basically you need to match them in the fitness/physicality areas before you get started on beating them tactically
You have to match or better their fighting qualities and Kilkenny did that aplenty in the first half, but never really touched leather (or man) there after in comparison
Closing off some of their better players allowed others to shine, so game planning that would need to be looked at too.
If I was a manager I'd be sweeping the clubs for big physical lumps, get them to a standard fitness wise then develop their skills, the small skillful hurler is a dying bread at intercounty level
Controlling possession is a must also for the other teams, you will lose most 50/50 balls against Limerick, be it a running game or short passing game or mixture of both its got to result in a score each time you work the ball out of defence
There is a difference though with how people looked at the great Dublin team and this Limerick team, the hurling fraternity are enjoying the skills on show and while you would love multiple teams winning it, Limerick are sticking two fingers up to the likes of Tipp, Cork, Kilkenny and they must be wondering how can they get past them?
When Dublin were flat out winning everyone was blaming the money, population and looking to split Dublin, and its unfair blah blah blah. People will no doubt highlight the JP money, but Limerick would be small enough to other counties, a dual county also they are just working with a great team that will eventually get old, how the management bring in players each time each year will show if they are actually going to maintain this
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 02:28:34 PM
They're exactly like dublin and would beat the best of the rest. Twice in a row now teams think they have sussed them out in the first 25 minutes or so and they have just analysed things, tweaked things and then blew the opposition away.
That's Kinnerk for you. Very astute.
The thing about Limerick is that they don't go for, or even need goals. They'll hit 30 points. Frightening.
Although T.J. didn't score from.play in the final this past two years, you could see he was trying to create a goal chance. He could have hit a handy point of two but knew KK needed goals. I'd say that was their plan. Try and create goal opportunities.
Gillane and Flanagan were poor by their high standards so the defence, espacially Lawlor did a good job. He's turning into a might full-back.
KK needed Fogarty, Donnelly and Keoghan to have the games of their lives, but it never happened. You'd need KK to play Limerick in the first half and then Galway to play them in the second half to make any inroads.
Look at Peter Casey, 5 pts in first half a couple of years ago, then went off with the cruciate (probably would have got MOTM if he wasn't injured), came back last year and then got MOTM yesterday with another 5 pts. What an operator!
Two new players in Finn and Hannon next year - as I say frightening.
Quote from: marty34 on July 24, 2023, 03:34:59 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 02:28:34 PM
They're exactly like dublin and would beat the best of the rest. Twice in a row now teams think they have sussed them out in the first 25 minutes or so and they have just analysed things, tweaked things and then blew the opposition away.
That's Kinnerk for you. Very astute.
The thing about Limerick is that they don't go for, or even need goals. They'll hit 30 points. Frightening.
Although T.J. didn't score from.play in the final this past two years, you could see he was trying to create a goal chance. He could have hit a handy point of two but knew KK needed goals. I'd say that was their plan. Try and create goal opportunities.
Gillane and Flanagan were poor by their high standards so the defence, espacially Lawlor did a good job. He's turning into a might full-back.
KK needed Fogarty, Donnelly and Keoghan to have the games of their lives, but it never happened. You'd need KK to play Limerick in the first half and then Galway to play them in the second half to make any inroads.
Look at Peter Casey, 5 pts in first half a couple of years ago, then went off with the cruciate (probably would have got MOTM if he wasn't injured), came back last year and then got MOTM yesterday with another 5 pts. What an operator!
Two new players in Finn and Hannon next year - as I say frightening.
The elusive 5-in-a-row feat would be quite a carrot for Limerick next year, but who's to say they will still have the same hunger and desire to start all over again in November? They were in danger enough of being knocked out v. Cork late in the match, so maybe the round-robin is the key to stopping them in 2024. There's also the possibility of more injuries being incurred and it may take Finn and Hannon a while to get back up to match sharpness next season as well. In addition, how strong really is their bench? O'Neill made a difference certainly but when he started games earlier in the season, he struggled to retain his place. Add in to the mix the fact that Flanagan, Hegarty and Tom Morrissey were fitful enough yesterday too.
Guess what I'm trying to say that as awesome as they were yesterday, their display was accentuated by a terribly poor one from KK who threw in the towel once Limerick wiped out the second goal-lead. Not impossible that someone could yet do a Tipp-2010 next year.
Tipp were coming though in 2010 with a good age profile, probably should have beaten KK in 09 but for some great goalkeeping from PJ Ryan & then the Benny Dunne red mist. Not sure I see a team like that next year
Mouview I think you are being a bit harsh on Kilkenny there.
Quote from: seafoid on July 23, 2023, 05:13:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 23, 2023, 05:00:13 PM
Some insane scores from Limerick here. Incredible team and am absolutely monstrous performance. They kept Gillane relatively quiet, especially in second half and I say relatively only because of his impossibly high standards. Flanagan and Tom Morrissey relatively quiet as well and then so many others step up.
KK def had a chance to win this year but they needed everyone to turn up. Walter didn't work out at all and had a few terrible shots, Mullen couldn't get into the game at all and I'm not sure Cody has touched the ball in the second half.
On top of everything, limerick's touch is still noticeably leagues ahead.
Limerick 94 were real. These multiple winners in football and hurling backed by money that nobody else gets it's not GAA
Even before the teams broke off from the parade the sheer difference in the physicality of both teams was evident
It was a professional team against an amateur team
Hoped Kilkenny would win simply as its now a flawed system
Monies are ruining the gaa
Quote from: naka on July 24, 2023, 07:55:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 23, 2023, 05:13:52 PM
Quote from: gallsman on July 23, 2023, 05:00:13 PM
Some insane scores from Limerick here. Incredible team and am absolutely monstrous performance. They kept Gillane relatively quiet, especially in second half and I say relatively only because of his impossibly high standards. Flanagan and Tom Morrissey relatively quiet as well and then so many others step up.
KK def had a chance to win this year but they needed everyone to turn up. Walter didn't work out at all and had a few terrible shots, Mullen couldn't get into the game at all and I'm not sure Cody has touched the ball in the second half.
On top of everything, limerick's touch is still noticeably leagues ahead.
Limerick 94 were real. These multiple winners in football and hurling backed by money that nobody else gets it's not GAA
Even before the teams broke off from the parade the sheer difference in the physicality of both teams was evident
It was a professional team against an amateur team
Hoped Kilkenny would win simply as its now a flawed system
Monies are ruining the gaa
Jeez Limerick had a back room team akin to a premier league side
Limerick's advantage is S&C., not hurling Happened after 25 min in the semi and at half time in the final. After this they take over. A team may want to change this next year. Because of 2019 Limerick are going for 5 and not 7
You fixate on the money too much. Yes they are way ahead s and c wise but they also have fantastic hurlers.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 11:40:17 AM
Quote from: mouview on July 24, 2023, 11:13:03 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 09:12:53 AM
Or when it's close calls can have a major bearing on the outcome ;D
Kilkenny reverted to type a lot too though so while they improved this year in nearly all of their games I kind of felt they regressed a bit yesterday.
Hard to see Limerick's dominance being broken any time soon. Finn to come back in, Lynch to get a good year behind him, Hannon to come back etc. I dunno how they'll fit all those players in if they're all fit.
Hayes right pick for POTY. Beast of a man.
Don't see that Kilkenny improved this year. Got a lot of lucky breaks to reach the final and Reid didn't actually score from play yesterday or in the semi. Four of their forwards were swapped out yesterday, (did Billy Ryan even touch the ball?) and midfield beaten up a stick. If anything, the scoreline flattered Kilkenny yesterday, very mediocre team by their standards. Gave a much better account of themselves in last year's decider.
Tbh maybe when you think about it they haven't improved that much. I would say this though - they were pretty much too good for Clare. While that was tight and there was the odd call here or there you never really got the feeling Clare would win that game. Yes they were lucky enough against Galway mind you.
I don't think against a team as physical as Limerick some of their players are quite at that physical level. I don't think any other team is mind you.
Reid can do a lot without scoring too though. I think he struggled yesterday but he did cause bother against Clare.
Kilkenny had a jammy Leinster final win. They are a similar level to Galway, ahead of Tipp, Cork, Waterford and Clare
. KK and Galway are hurling teams who don't do S& C a la Limerick. Maybe they will.
I hate to break it to you but Galway have plenty of beasts in there too. They do plenty of strength and conditioning. They just don't do it as well and probably don't have hurlers of the same level.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 08:32:50 PM
I hate to break it to you but Galway have plenty of beasts in there too. They do plenty of strength and conditioning. They just don't do it as well and probably don't have hurlers of the same level.
None of the other teams are anywhere near Limerick's S&Clevel
We don't know how the others would perform hurlingwise because we never had a level s&C.
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2023, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 08:32:50 PM
I hate to break it to you but Galway have plenty of beasts in there too. They do plenty of strength and conditioning. They just don't do it as well and probably don't have hurlers of the same level.
None of the other teams are anywhere near Limerick's S&Clevel
We don't know how the others would perform hurlingwise because we never had a level s&C.
S&C is available to every team, the players need to commit to it, it's simple, either you follow a plan or don't. The reality is Limerick are able to stick to the plan because they believe in it and gets rewards..
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2023, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 08:32:50 PM
I hate to break it to you but Galway have plenty of beasts in there too. They do plenty of strength and conditioning. They just don't do it as well and probably don't have hurlers of the same level.
None of the other teams are anywhere near Limerick's S&Clevel
We don't know how the others would perform hurlingwise because we never had a level s&C.
I was reading on a social media post that Galway had a decent financial backing too? It's very easy to just say limerick have more money but there's a lot more to it than that.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 09:48:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2023, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 08:32:50 PM
I hate to break it to you but Galway have plenty of beasts in there too. They do plenty of strength and conditioning. They just don't do it as well and probably don't have hurlers of the same level.
None of the other teams are anywhere near Limerick's S&Clevel
We don't know how the others would perform hurlingwise because we never had a level s&C.
I was reading on a social media post that Galway had a decent financial backing too? It's very easy to just say limerick have more money but there's a lot more to it than that.
Galway spent over 2 million on their Inter County teams in 2022.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41014745.html#:~:text=GALWAY%20have%20become%20the%20first,an%20eye%2Dwatering%20%E2%82%AC2%2C161%2C497.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 06:34:49 PM
Mouview I think you are being a bit harsh on Kilkenny there.
Not at all. Galway get plenty of stick whenever they lose a match, let some other county suffer the same hysterical analysis for doing the same.
S&C is part of it but this Limerick team are way off the charts in other areas.
I have never seen a more composed team, they are impossible to rattle. They just keep going, even when 5,6 or 7 points behind. They are totally selfless, nobody trying to be a hero. They always look for the man in a better position. David Reidy tracked back and was on the end line tackling for that Kilkenny batted goal chance at the very end. They are a rare breed.
Hard to believe they were underdogs against Galway in the 2018 final when this all started.
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2023, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 08:32:50 PM
I hate to break it to you but Galway have plenty of beasts in there too. They do plenty of strength and conditioning. They just don't do it as well and probably don't have hurlers of the same level.
None of the other teams are anywhere near Limerick's S&Clevel
We don't know how the others would perform hurlingwise because we never had a level s&C.
S&C had very little to do with Peter Casey's 5 points, (barring the shrug off on Mikey Butler), he'd white chalk on his boots for three of them, now from a Galway perspective who could you trust to do the same for them?
Conor Cooney would put over a worldy one minute and then miss an easy chance the next, he'd have put at best two of those over, Niland needs space, Casey was well chaperoned on three of those points and still got them over, Whelan, who I rate highly BTW would also have put at least two of those wide, Cathal O'Neill comes on and puts over one of the best points of the day while being closed in tight to the sideline on the Cusack stand side of the ground.
That is the difference between Limerick and the chasing pack, when the pressure comes on their shooting averages are far higher than anyone else.
Limericks one weakness is in dealing with high ball in on their fullback line, Kilkenny, Galway and Clare got joy from those, but couldn't sustain the effort to get the ball into positions to allow good ball to get in their.
Is TJ done? He's now moreso a playmaker, some of his passes yesterday in the second half would have resulted in good goal chances, one due to a slip and the other to a lad just getting it all wrong after that. It will be interesting if he goes another year, I can't see another Leinster title being enough to satisfy him, but we'll know more when Ballyhale exit the club championship (or win it again)..
Quote from: johnnycool on July 26, 2023, 11:01:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2023, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 08:32:50 PM
I hate to break it to you but Galway have plenty of beasts in there too. They do plenty of strength and conditioning. They just don't do it as well and probably don't have hurlers of the same level.
None of the other teams are anywhere near Limerick's S&Clevel
We don't know how the others would perform hurlingwise because we never had a level s&C.
S&C had very little to do with Peter Casey's 5 points, (barring the shrug off on Mikey Butler), he'd white chalk on his boots for three of them, now from a Galway perspective who could you trust to do the same for them?
Conor Cooney would put over a worldy one minute and then miss an easy chance the next, he'd have put at best two of those over, Niland needs space, Casey was well chaperoned on three of those points and still got them over, Whelan, who I rate highly BTW would also have put at least two of those wide, Cathal O'Neill comes on and puts over one of the best points of the day while being closed in tight to the sideline on the Cusack stand side of the ground.
That is the difference between Limerick and the chasing pack, when the pressure comes on their shooting averages are far higher than anyone else.
Limericks one weakness is in dealing with high ball in on their fullback line, Kilkenny, Galway and Clare got joy from those, but couldn't sustain the effort to get the ball into positions to allow good ball to get in their.
Is TJ done? He's now moreso a playmaker, some of his passes yesterday in the second half would have resulted in good goal chances, one due to a slip and the other to a lad just getting it all wrong after that. It will be interesting if he goes another year, I can't see another Leinster title being enough to satisfy him, but we'll know more when Ballyhale exit the club championship (or win it again)..
Casey has the facility to score points from acute angles and while seemingly being tightly marked. Limerick were freaky in their purple patch on Sunday though as everything they hit, wind-aided, went over the bar. As a team they've frequently had the propensity to hit a lot of wides in a match however, yes, even under pressure. E.g. 2018 AI final, 2023 league final, both Clare matches this year etc. Maybe the key to beating them is not to start well, like Galway and Kilkenny did in their games, but to tread water for as long as possible and then hammer the hammer by finishing strongly.
Quote from: mouview on July 26, 2023, 12:22:43 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 26, 2023, 11:01:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2023, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 08:32:50 PM
I hate to break it to you but Galway have plenty of beasts in there too. They do plenty of strength and conditioning. They just don't do it as well and probably don't have hurlers of the same level.
None of the other teams are anywhere near Limerick's S&Clevel
We don't know how the others would perform hurlingwise because we never had a level s&C.
S&C had very little to do with Peter Casey's 5 points, (barring the shrug off on Mikey Butler), he'd white chalk on his boots for three of them, now from a Galway perspective who could you trust to do the same for them?
Conor Cooney would put over a worldy one minute and then miss an easy chance the next, he'd have put at best two of those over, Niland needs space, Casey was well chaperoned on three of those points and still got them over, Whelan, who I rate highly BTW would also have put at least two of those wide, Cathal O'Neill comes on and puts over one of the best points of the day while being closed in tight to the sideline on the Cusack stand side of the ground.
That is the difference between Limerick and the chasing pack, when the pressure comes on their shooting averages are far higher than anyone else.
Limericks one weakness is in dealing with high ball in on their fullback line, Kilkenny, Galway and Clare got joy from those, but couldn't sustain the effort to get the ball into positions to allow good ball to get in their.
Is TJ done? He's now moreso a playmaker, some of his passes yesterday in the second half would have resulted in good goal chances, one due to a slip and the other to a lad just getting it all wrong after that. It will be interesting if he goes another year, I can't see another Leinster title being enough to satisfy him, but we'll know more when Ballyhale exit the club championship (or win it again)..
Casey has the facility to score points from acute angles and while seemingly being tightly marked. Limerick were freaky in their purple patch on Sunday though as everything they hit, wind-aided, went over the bar. As a team they've frequently had the propensity to hit a lot of wides in a match however, yes, even under pressure. E.g. 2018 AI final, 2023 league final, both Clare matches this year etc. Maybe the key to beating them is not to start well, like Galway and Kilkenny did in their games, but to tread water for as long as possible and then hammer the hammer by finishing strongly.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNsyEaDocRAuXlCwpdoTj1M4eRLegca4vJ0w&usqp=CAU)
will dublin become a genuine all ireland contender in next 8 years
Can't see it as they seem to be getting worse not better. Around 2012 or so they were beating kk and were genuine ai contenders(only for a year or so) and that was their chance I think...
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 08:12:40 AM
Can't see it as they seem to be getting worse not better. Around 2012 or so they were beating kk and were genuine ai contenders(only for a year or so) and that was their chance I think...
They had a push under Daly but since then they've stood still. Very inconsistent and not enough quality.
Like this year, two draws and one of them was V Antrim in the first game (iirc), so they're on the back foot in that group straight away.
A few high profile managers hasn't made any difference either.
Very similar to Galway. You just don't know what team is going to show up on the day.
Quote from: marty34 on August 02, 2023, 09:02:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 08:12:40 AM
Can't see it as they seem to be getting worse not better. Around 2012 or so they were beating kk and were genuine ai contenders(only for a year or so) and that was their chance I think...
They had a push under Daly but since then they've stood still. Very inconsistent and not enough quality.
Like this year, two draws and one of them was V Antrim in the first game (iirc), so they're on the back foot in that group straight away.
A few high profile managers hasn't made any difference either.
Very similar to Galway. You just don't know what team is going to show up on the day.
yeah, a bit spluttery alright, but if you'd a Con O'Callaghan in their ranks he'd make the power of difference, I seriously rate him, but he's never been tested at that level, but I'm sure there's plenty of Dublin hurling fans like myself love for him to give it a rattle.
Lots of Crokes lads didn't commit to the team in 2023, maybe more will on 2024, but who knows.
Quote from: johnnycool on August 02, 2023, 10:40:38 AM
Quote from: marty34 on August 02, 2023, 09:02:28 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 08:12:40 AM
Can't see it as they seem to be getting worse not better. Around 2012 or so they were beating kk and were genuine ai contenders(only for a year or so) and that was their chance I think...
They had a push under Daly but since then they've stood still. Very inconsistent and not enough quality.
Like this year, two draws and one of them was V Antrim in the first game (iirc), so they're on the back foot in that group straight away.
A few high profile managers hasn't made any difference either.
Very similar to Galway. You just don't know what team is going to show up on the day.
yeah, a bit spluttery alright, but if you'd a Con O'Callaghan in their ranks he'd make the power of difference, I seriously rate him, but he's never been tested at that level, but I'm sure there's plenty of Dublin hurling fans like myself love for him to give it a rattle.
Lots of Crokes lads didn't commit to the team in 2023, maybe more will on 2024, but who knows.
Outwith Donal Burke, who's quality then they're light enough. Crummy away this year. Doesn't seem to be the buy in that other counties have.
For whatever reason, maybe down to football?
Main issue, for me anyway, would be that they're never consistent at minor or U20 level so there's no real new hope coming through.
Look at Limerick, not the best example I know but they put serious effort into their underage squads 10/12 years ago and brought the majority of them through minors and 20's. A once in a generation outfit but point still stands that they brought them through.
This is not happening in Dublin and other counties for that matter.
Maybe counties should focus on say, 3 decent academy squads, and put huge effort into them and bring them through alâ Limerick? Would that work? Needs the will to be brave and do it.
Currently teams seem to be doing the same thing, year after year i.e. same squad with a couple of new lads on board/new manager on board but no real progress. One year slips into 5 years and again, no real progress.
Be interesting to see how Limerick brought these lads through after 20's. Was it 10 the first year, then another 10 the next year? Were their older players 'moved' to the side to facilitate this new batch of players?
If you look at the core 10/12 players of their panel, outwith Quaid, they're aged 25/28ish.
The average age on the Limerick team is 25.5
The average height is 6'1.5"
And the average weight is 13.8 stone
Its a serious physical outfit and those lads coming together at around the same time has given us the team Limerick are today, they have been together for a long time through juvenile and have been managed properly from those age groups into a senior team, winning it earlier has established a winning mentality and they just seem to be ready to go through the gears if they have to and hold on for a win or hammer home in the final 10 minutes of a game..
I think that there was seriously skillful talent and mad raw talent that has got better with coaching and tactics and creating a mindset that won't be beaten
The fitness levels along with the age, height and weight breaks opponents down throughout the game leaving gaps to knock over points in quick bursts.
Is this by design or as Marty says have they been brought through an development squad with this in mind
Either way its a joy to watch and there is no reason why they can't tag on at least another 3 titles with this squad
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 08:12:40 AM
Can't see it as they seem to be getting worse not better. Around 2012 or so they were beating kk and were genuine ai contenders(only for a year or so) and that was their chance I think...
Ryan O'Dwyer getting sent off in the 2013 All Ireland Semi Final was the sliding doors moment for Dublin Hurling
If he had stayed on they probably would have won and possibly won the All Ireland that year
Yeah I would agree with that. I imagine they'd be in a very different place right now if they'd got an AI or even a final place.
Their minors are always decent enough so you'd expect them to stay at that level but tbh it's a frustrating place to be. Put in loads of effort to maybe challenge KK or Galway if you're lucky.
Quote from: clonadmad on August 02, 2023, 12:10:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 08:12:40 AM
Can't see it as they seem to be getting worse not better. Around 2012 or so they were beating kk and were genuine ai contenders(only for a year or so) and that was their chance I think...
Ryan O'Dwyer getting sent off in the 2013 All Ireland Semi Final was the sliding doors moment for Dublin Hurling
If he had stayed on they probably would have won and possibly won the All Ireland that year
Possibly but any team knocking on the door usually, the next year, push on. This tells me that Dublin weren't nowhere good enough. They got close once but it's that consistency of winning Leinsters and getting to AI semi-finals is the issue.
They didn't do it then and haven't done it since.
They need a different way.
I had a feeling that Cork were going to sneak it in 2013 even if O'Dwyer had stayed on the field.
Still it was a year that any of the unfancied counties could have won it because Tipp and Kilkenny were in disarray.
Quote from: marty34 on August 02, 2023, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on August 02, 2023, 12:10:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 08:12:40 AM
Can't see it as they seem to be getting worse not better. Around 2012 or so they were beating kk and were genuine ai contenders(only for a year or so) and that was their chance I think...
Ryan O'Dwyer getting sent off in the 2013 All Ireland Semi Final was the sliding doors moment for Dublin Hurling
If he had stayed on they probably would have won and possibly won the All Ireland that year
Possibly but any team knocking on the door usually, the next year, push on. This tells me that Dublin weren't nowhere good enough. They got close once but it's that consistency of winning Leinsters and getting to AI semi-finals is the issue.
They didn't do it then and haven't done it since.
They need a different way.
Neither Cork nor Clare pushed on either after that
Norma service resumed with kilkenny and tipp for the following few years
Quote from: marty34 on August 02, 2023, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on August 02, 2023, 12:10:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 08:12:40 AM
Can't see it as they seem to be getting worse not better. Around 2012 or so they were beating kk and were genuine ai contenders(only for a year or so) and that was their chance I think...
Ryan O'Dwyer getting sent off in the 2013 All Ireland Semi Final was the sliding doors moment for Dublin Hurling
If he had stayed on they probably would have won and possibly won the All Ireland that year
cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccl
Possibly but any team knocking on the door usually, the next year, push on. This tells me that Dublin weren't nowhere good enough. They got close once but it's that consistency of winning Leinsters and getting to AI semi-finals is the issue.
They didn't do it then and haven't done it since.
They need a different way
Clare took their chance. 2013 was a once off. Cats returned in 14
Quote from: seafoid on August 21, 2023, 12:19:45 PM
Quote from: marty34 on August 02, 2023, 02:07:08 PM
Quote from: clonadmad on August 02, 2023, 12:10:23 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 02, 2023, 08:12:40 AM
Can't see it as they seem to be getting worse not better. Around 2012 or so they were beating kk and were genuine ai contenders(only for a year or so) and that was their chance I think...
Ryan O'Dwyer getting sent off in the 2013 All Ireland Semi Final was the sliding doors moment for Dublin Hurling
If he had stayed on they probably would have won and possibly won the All Ireland that year
cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccl
Possibly but any team knocking on the door usually, the next year, push on. This tells me that Dublin weren't nowhere good enough. They got close once but it's that consistency of winning Leinsters and getting to AI semi-finals is the issue.
They didn't do it then and haven't done it since.
They need a different way
Clare took their chance. 2013 was a once off. Cats returned in 14
I felt there was at least 2 more titles in that Clare team at the time, they didn't look to improve after winning that title as they just fell away from the reckoning, a bit like Galway, they also should have tagged on a couple more titles with that team.
Limerick on the other hand are improving each year, not resting on their laurels
I think some might say Fitzgerald wrecked them...
The key match that year was when Cork beat Kilkenny. The road opened. Kilkenny never got going properly. Normal service returned the next 2 years. 2013 was a special year Clare only have 4 all Irelands AFAIK.
.
2013 happened 8
years into Kilkenny's reign after the 4 in a row. They were missing something and there was a gap where the light got in. Something similar will probably happen at the fag end of the Limerick empire when the discipline fades
.
Quote from: imtommygunn on August 21, 2023, 06:30:15 PM
I think some might say Fitzgerald wrecked them...
And Kinnerk left them.
Didn't realise he was there. Some trail of success wherever he goes.
Hurling frees more likely to go to losing teams:
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/08/24/study-finds-hurling-frees-more-likely-to-go-to-team-trailing-on-scoreboard/
Ref margins are very interesting.
Quote from: seafoid on August 25, 2023, 04:36:07 PM
Hurling frees more likely to go to losing teams:
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/08/24/study-finds-hurling-frees-more-likely-to-go-to-team-trailing-on-scoreboard/
Ref margins are very interesting.
Its an interesting concept but as its said, they haven't looked at the actual 'free' to decide whether or not it is a free or not
Some factors being teams defend more when in front, teams attack more when behind, which will draw more fouls
I try and tally the free ups in a game the odd time, one time a lad was complaining about not getting frees, I showed him the free count, his team had more frees, he said that they were not in scoreable positions! Can't win lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBGuvuSPQDI
Losing this year's final really hurt Kilkenny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bc5AJWQ9s8
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 09:40:48 AM
Losing this year's final really hurt Kilkenny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bc5AJWQ9s8
The nature of the defeat will sting in Kilkenny.
Outfought and outthought , physically they were dominated, tactically naive and outhurled skill wise.
That could have never been said when they were in their pomp, still fresh in the minds of most Kilkenny supporters.
They know they're a bit short of that Limerick team, but so is everyone else.
Quote from: johnnycool on September 01, 2023, 09:50:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 09:40:48 AM
Losing this year's final really hurt Kilkenny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bc5AJWQ9s8
The nature of the defeat will sting in Kilkenny.
Outfought and outthought , physically they were dominated, tactically naive and outhurled skill wise.
That could have never been said when they were in their pomp, still fresh in the minds of most Kilkenny supporters.
They know they're a bit short of that Limerick team, but so is everyone else.
It was worse than last year. A 2 point defeat would have been ok but this was awful for them.
They would have been better off losing Leinster. It's going to be a long winter in Bennetsbridge
It's amazing that Huw Lawlor has no all Ireland medal. .
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 10:34:20 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 01, 2023, 09:50:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 09:40:48 AM
Losing this year's final really hurt Kilkenny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bc5AJWQ9s8
The nature of the defeat will sting in Kilkenny.
Outfought and outthought , physically they were dominated, tactically naive and outhurled skill wise.
That could have never been said when they were in their pomp, still fresh in the minds of most Kilkenny supporters.
They know they're a bit short of that Limerick team, but so is everyone else.
It was worse than last year. A 2 point defeat would have been ok but this was awful for them.
They would have been better off losing Leinster. It's going to be a long winter in Bennetsbridge
It's amazing that Huw Lawlor has no all Ireland medal. .
2015 is their last win, going into their 9th year without a win and being beat in their last 4 AI final appearances will hurt a team who's ability to win finals is what used to get them apart.
The manner with which Limerick went up through the gears in the second half and tore them asunder should be a concern to everyone, not just Kilkenny, The Limerick juggernaut shows no sign of abating.
They were also without Sean Finn and Deccy Hannon FFS!
Quote from: johnnycool on September 01, 2023, 03:36:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 10:34:20 AM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 01, 2023, 09:50:12 AM
Quote from: seafoid on September 01, 2023, 09:40:48 AM
Losing this year's final really hurt Kilkenny
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bc5AJWQ9s8
The nature of the defeat will sting in Kilkenny.
Outfought and outthought , physically they were dominated, tactically naive and outhurled skill wise.
That could have never been said when they were in their pomp, still fresh in the minds of most Kilkenny supporters.
They know they're a bit short of that Limerick team, but so is everyone else.
It was worse than last year. A 2 point defeat would have been ok but this was awful for them.
They would have been better off losing Leinster. It's going to be a long winter in Bennetsbridge
It's amazing that Huw Lawlor has no all Ireland medal. .
2015 is their last win, going into their 9th year without a win and being beat in their last 4 AI final appearances will hurt a team who's ability to win finals is what used to get them apart.
The manner with which Limerick went up through the gears in the second half and tore them asunder should be a concern to everyone, not just Kilkenny, The Limerick juggernaut shows no sign of abating.
They were also without Sean Finn and Deccy Hannon FFS!
The final was the same as the semi final. Same physicality afterburners to wipe out the opposition. It's hard to feel sorry for Kilkenny but they really got tangoed and losing a final is the worst match to lose.
Between 1963 and 1983 Kilkenny won 8 all Irelands. Afterwards they went into a 9 year slump with no all Irelands.
.
https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/local-news/1271277/watch-beautiful-poem-recited-by-the-pitch-side-in-memory-of-the-late-dillon-quirke.html
https://youtu.be/VjV5JI645B4?si=FUCXsirq42F3P7Yt&t=940s
I wonder what will be the outcome here?
https://twitter.com/PremierviewPod/status/1698364873694908925
Shocking . Does not look like hurling. Obviously no love lost between Tipp and Galway at ground level.
Can Galway keep brushing serious incidents like this under the carpet?
In the past there wasn't so many cameras and social media, so when Joe Canning was stamped in the face in 2006 it wasn't captured. When Johnny Maher went on the rampage about 10 years ago there was a bit more coverage but I think he still got away with it.
Maybe not with social media. The worst incident I can remember happened earlier, in 1990. Éanna Ryan was laid out cold by a brutal blow to the head from a Turloughmore player. Ryan had a serious head injury. It was feared that he would never play hurling again. He recovered slowly. 8 years later he came on as a sub in a game against Kinvara.
Quote from: mouview on July 24, 2023, 10:06:22 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 06:34:49 PM
Mouview I think you are being a bit harsh on Kilkenny there.
Not at all. Galway get plenty of stick whenever they lose a match, let some other county suffer the same hysterical analysis for doing the same.
That's a journalism problem. they only focus on the latest information. Same as the All stars.
Kilkenny and Galway are on the same level ie not good enough on the second half S&C afterburners. The Leinster final showed that there is nothing between them.
Quote from: mouview on July 26, 2023, 12:22:43 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 26, 2023, 11:01:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2023, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 08:32:50 PM
I hate to break it to you but Galway have plenty of beasts in there too. They do plenty of strength and conditioning. They just don't do it as well and probably don't have hurlers of the same level.
None of the other teams are anywhere near Limerick's S&Clevel
We don't know how the others would perform hurlingwise because we never had a level s&C.
S&C had very little to do with Peter Casey's 5 points, (barring the shrug off on Mikey Butler), he'd white chalk on his boots for three of them, now from a Galway perspective who could you trust to do the same for them?
Conor Cooney would put over a worldy one minute and then miss an easy chance the next, he'd have put at best two of those over, Niland needs space, Casey was well chaperoned on three of those points and still got them over, Whelan, who I rate highly BTW would also have put at least two of those wide, Cathal O'Neill comes on and puts over one of the best points of the day while being closed in tight to the sideline on the Cusack stand side of the ground.
That is the difference between Limerick and the chasing pack, when the pressure comes on their shooting averages are far higher than anyone else.
Limericks one weakness is in dealing with high ball in on their fullback line, Kilkenny, Galway and Clare got joy from those, but couldn't sustain the effort to get the ball into positions to allow good ball to get in their.
Is TJ done? He's now moreso a playmaker, some of his passes yesterday in the second half would have resulted in good goal chances, one due to a slip and the other to a lad just getting it all wrong after that. It will be interesting if he goes another year, I can't see another Leinster title being enough to satisfy him, but we'll know more when Ballyhale exit the club championship (or win it again)..
Casey has the facility to score points from acute angles and while seemingly being tightly marked. Limerick were freaky in their purple patch on Sunday though as everything they hit, wind-aided, went over the bar. As a team they've frequently had the propensity to hit a lot of wides in a match however, yes, even under pressure. E.g. 2018 AI final, 2023 league final, both Clare matches this year etc. Maybe the key to beating them is not to start well, like Galway and Kilkenny did in their games, but to tread water for as long as possible and then hammer the hammer by finishing strongly.
They would have to mirror Limerick's S&C. They would probably need to find a few new players. Does Evan Ferguson have any Galway links?
Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 08:11:44 AM
Quote from: mouview on July 26, 2023, 12:22:43 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 26, 2023, 11:01:15 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 24, 2023, 08:50:03 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 24, 2023, 08:32:50 PM
I hate to break it to you but Galway have plenty of beasts in there too. They do plenty of strength and conditioning. They just don't do it as well and probably don't have hurlers of the same level.
None of the other teams are anywhere near Limerick's S&Clevel
We don't know how the others would perform hurlingwise because we never had a level s&C.
S&C had very little to do with Peter Casey's 5 points, (barring the shrug off on Mikey Butler), he'd white chalk on his boots for three of them, now from a Galway perspective who could you trust to do the same for them?
Conor Cooney would put over a worldy one minute and then miss an easy chance the next, he'd have put at best two of those over, Niland needs space, Casey was well chaperoned on three of those points and still got them over, Whelan, who I rate highly BTW would also have put at least two of those wide, Cathal O'Neill comes on and puts over one of the best points of the day while being closed in tight to the sideline on the Cusack stand side of the ground.
That is the difference between Limerick and the chasing pack, when the pressure comes on their shooting averages are far higher than anyone else.
Limericks one weakness is in dealing with high ball in on their fullback line, Kilkenny, Galway and Clare got joy from those, but couldn't sustain the effort to get the ball into positions to allow good ball to get in their.
Is TJ done? He's now moreso a playmaker, some of his passes yesterday in the second half would have resulted in good goal chances, one due to a slip and the other to a lad just getting it all wrong after that. It will be interesting if he goes another year, I can't see another Leinster title being enough to satisfy him, but we'll know more when Ballyhale exit the club championship (or win it again)..
Casey has the facility to score points from acute angles and while seemingly being tightly marked. Limerick were freaky in their purple patch on Sunday though as everything they hit, wind-aided, went over the bar. As a team they've frequently had the propensity to hit a lot of wides in a match however, yes, even under pressure. E.g. 2018 AI final, 2023 league final, both Clare matches this year etc. Maybe the key to beating them is not to start well, like Galway and Kilkenny did in their games, but to tread water for as long as possible and then hammer the hammer by finishing strongly.
They would have to mirror Limerick's S&C. They would probably need to find a few new players. Does Evan Ferguson have any Galway links?
I'm not sure Evan Ferguson would last long if Kyle Hayes lined him up with a shoulder ;D
All the talk of S&C is all well and good and it makes a difference but Limerick hurlers are just brilliant hurlers. Full of ability, skill and game management.
That's the difference.
Barry Nash can man mark but come up the park and hit a score. It doesn't matter. Hayes can play half forward or half-back. Hannon out - no problem. Put WOD, a mid-fielder, in there. No issues.
They all seemlessly fit into a game of 5-a-side type hurling.
They are just brilliant hurlers. Each and every one of them.
They can be marked for 30-35 minutes. Afterwards they can't. That is not skill. That's S&C.
ffs sf they're well conditioned yes but they're fantastic hurlers. If you're just putting this down to s&c then you're missing quite a bit here. Have you noticed as well as anything that they also shift their tactics round that time when they notice how the opposition is playing?
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 02:47:56 PM
ffs sf they're well conditioned yes but they're fantastic hurlers. If you're just putting this down to s&c then you're missing quite a bit here. Have you noticed as well as anything that they also shift their tactics round that time when they notice how the opposition is playing?
Kinnerk is the key for that tactical element.
It's no coincidence that they have hit the perfect storm of S&C and skill level. When they set out in the development squads they are looking at players with certain characteristics, size shape frame etc throw the hurling coaching at them and if you have enough of these lads the hurling will stick with enough of them as we are seeing at the moment.
Granted there are a few who are just blessed with that level of skill and talent. But you don't produce a machine like they are without the above systems in place.
Yeah it needs a lot of that in place - well to operate the way they do it does anyway.
That being said no amount of s&c and training could provide you with the vision that Lynch has. You just can't manufacture that.
That Limerick team is all sorts of shapes too, it's not as if they are all rippling with muscles, they are built for hurling. Byrnes for example very lean and wirey, Sean Finn small but strongly built.
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 02:47:56 PM
ffs sf they're well conditioned yes but they're fantastic hurlers. If you're just putting this down to s&c then you're missing quite a bit here. Have you noticed as well as anything that they also shift their tactics round that time when they notice how the opposition is playing?
It's the combination but the key difference is the power boost. And it's like a multiplication. Some other teams are skilled but they don't have the power.
I also think that Limerick's power peaks in the championship endgame. They were just as skilled in Munster
Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 01:51:48 PM
They can be marked for 30-35 minutes. Afterwards they can't. That is not skill. That's S&C.
It's not S&C.
They're top class hurlers.
Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 05:02:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 02:47:56 PM
ffs sf they're well conditioned yes but they're fantastic hurlers. If you're just putting this down to s&c then you're missing quite a bit here. Have you noticed as well as anything that they also shift their tactics round that time when they notice how the opposition is playing?
It's the combination but the key difference is the power boost. And it's like a multiplication. Some other teams are skilled but they don't have the power.
I also think that Limerick's power peaks in the championship endgame. They were just as skilled in Munster
It's hurling not a video game ;D
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 08:19:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 05:02:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 02:47:56 PM
ffs sf they're well conditioned yes but they're fantastic hurlers. If you're just putting this down to s&c then you're missing quite a bit here. Have you noticed as well as anything that they also shift their tactics round that time when they notice how the opposition is playing?
It's the combination but the key difference is the power boost. And it's like a multiplication. Some other teams are skilled but they don't have the power.
I also think that Limerick's power peaks in the championship endgame. They were just as skilled in Munster
It's hurling not a video game ;D
Some of the KK lads are a bit off on the S&C though, take Tom Phelan, I thought he was a young lad, 21 or 22 or so, but he's 27.
A fine hurler but was bounced about and lost possession twice in the tackle in the second half that I can remember. Now he'd have been better off not going into those tackles although a lot of the time with Limerick those tackles come to you..
On the flip side, take Cathal O'Neill or Adam English, bit part players, 20 to 21 years old and far better conditioned for this type of hurling.
Kilkenny do have a bit of catching up to do in terms of S&C, no doubt but it starts in the youth teams and not when they're adults.
I do wonder how much time did Cody's team spend in the gym?
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 08, 2023, 10:03:26 AM
I do wonder how much time did Cody's team spend in the gym?
More than they'd care for you to believe.
As we're now seeing rocking up into a senior team and then starting S&C is way too late. These Limerick lads are working through age and profile specific programs since they are 13,14yo's
Quote from: johnnycool on September 08, 2023, 11:28:48 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 08, 2023, 10:03:26 AM
I do wonder how much time did Cody's team spend in the gym?
More than they'd care for you to believe.
As we're now seeing rocking up into a senior team and then starting S&C is way too late. These Limerick lads are working through age and profile specific programs since they are 13,14yo's
Hurling goes through fashion waves. Tommy Walsh went through them recently . There was Galway's jennet express in the 80s, Clare's intensity in 94, the running of the Cork midfield in 04/05, the movement of the Tipp team in 2010 , the accuracy and the relentlessness of the Cody teams etc. Limerick's S&C part of that. All of those teams were highly skilful. And everything is succeeded and beaten by something else.
The question is what comes after Limerick. Do they have another cohort of 13 year olds that was selected for profile and ready to go 5 years after Cian Lynch etc? If they don't, and most serial winning teams don't (cf the Man United thread), some other team will take over with some other fashion.
Quote from: seafoid on September 08, 2023, 12:12:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 08, 2023, 11:28:48 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 08, 2023, 10:03:26 AM
I do wonder how much time did Cody's team spend in the gym?
More than they'd care for you to believe.
As we're now seeing rocking up into a senior team and then starting S&C is way too late. These Limerick lads are working through age and profile specific programs since they are 13,14yo's
Hurling goes through fashion waves. Tommy Walsh went through them recently . There was Galway's jennet express in the 80s, Clare's intensity in 94, the running of the Cork midfield in 04/05, the movement of the Tipp team in 2010 , the accuracy and the relentlessness of the Cody teams etc. Limerick's S&C part of that. All of those teams were highly skilful. And everything is succeeded and beaten by something else.
The question is what comes after Limerick. Do they have another cohort of 13 year olds that was selected for profile and ready to go 5 years after Cian Lynch etc? If they don't, and most serial winning teams don't (cf the Man United thread), some other team will take over with some other fashion.
Cork are banking on a few strong juvenile teams to push them into contention, but barring a few were light enough looking. Plenty of pace alright and that's always good, but they need a sprinkling of ball winners and a few hardy souls in their defence. I don't see them as yet.
Clare for me are the not so dark horses. They've brought in young Hogan into their defence and their U20 fullback whose name escapes me looks like a proper modern fullback, big enough lad, pacey and fine wrists. Clare sort that defence out and they'll maybe finally land some silverware in Munster.
Quote from: johnnycool on September 08, 2023, 03:51:55 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 08, 2023, 12:12:24 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on September 08, 2023, 11:28:48 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 08, 2023, 10:03:26 AM
I do wonder how much time did Cody's team spend in the gym?
More than they'd care for you to believe.
As we're now seeing rocking up into a senior team and then starting S&C is way too late. These Limerick lads are working through age and profile specific programs since they are 13,14yo's
Hurling goes through fashion waves. Tommy Walsh went through them recently . There was Galway's jennet express in the 80s, Clare's intensity in 94, the running of the Cork midfield in 04/05, the movement of the Tipp team in 2010 , the accuracy and the relentlessness of the Cody teams etc. Limerick's S&C part of that. All of those teams were highly skilful. And everything is succeeded and beaten by something else.
The question is what comes after Limerick. Do they have another cohort of 13 year olds that was selected for profile and ready to go 5 years after Cian Lynch etc? If they don't, and most serial winning teams don't (cf the Man United thread), some other team will take over with some other fashion.
Cork are banking on a few strong juvenile teams to push them into contention, but barring a few were light enough looking. Plenty of pace alright and that's always good, but they need a sprinkling of ball winners and a few hardy souls in their defence. I don't see them as yet.
Clare for me are the not so dark horses. They've brought in young Hogan into their defence and their U20 fullback whose name escapes me looks like a proper modern fullback, big enough lad, pacey and fine wrists. Clare sort that defence out and they'll maybe finally land some silverware in Munster.
Kilkenny started running out of gas in 2012/13 . In the next few years Tipp and Galway were the clear pretenders but now there doesn't seem to be anyone.
Quote from: johnnycool on September 08, 2023, 09:34:52 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 08:19:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 05:02:36 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 02:47:56 PM
ffs sf they're well conditioned yes but they're fantastic hurlers. If you're just putting this down to s&c then you're missing quite a bit here. Have you noticed as well as anything that they also shift their tactics round that time when they notice how the opposition is playing?
It's the combination but the key difference is the power boost. And it's like a multiplication. Some other teams are skilled but they don't have the power.
I also think that Limerick's power peaks in the championship endgame. They were just as skilled in Munster
It's hurling not a video game ;D
Some of the KK lads are a bit off on the S&C though, take Tom Phelan, I thought he was a young lad, 21 or 22 or so, but he's 27.
A fine hurler but was bounced about and lost possession twice in the tackle in the second half that I can remember. Now he'd have been better off not going into those tackles although a lot of the time with Limerick those tackles come to you..
On the flip side, take Cathal O'Neill or Adam English, bit part players, 20 to 21 years old and far better conditioned for this type of hurling.
Kilkenny do have a bit of catching up to do in terms of S&C, no doubt but it starts in the youth teams and not when they're adults.
In fairness, Phelan was probably one of KK's best players in the final. Iirc, he got 3pts after being emptied by WOD after 5 mins.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0908/1404146-gaa-considering-changes-to-hurling-league-format/
GAA outline three alternative Allianz Hurling League formats
Updated / Friday, 8 Sep 2023 10:09
Limerick beat Kilkenny in this year's Allianz hurling League Division 1 final
Limerick beat Kilkenny in this year's Allianz hurling League Division 1 final
By Damian Lawlor
RTÉ GAA reporter
The GAA'S Central Competitions Control Committee is exploring alternative formats for Division 1 of the Allianz Hurling League from 2025 onwards.
The CCCC is acting on concerns that have been expressed by counties regarding a perceived significant gulf in standards between the strongest and weakest sides in the current Division 1A and 1B system, consisting of equivalent groups of six in which the two bottom sides play off to avoid relegation.
There is a feeling that this gap is affecting the overall intensity of the competition and that the current framework does not provide enough jeopardy for the top teams.
With regards to promotion and relegation, counties have also expressed their concern that there appears to be a yo-yo effect of a small but familiar list of counties coming up and going down from the top tier on a regular basis.
The CCCC has now decided to explore potential new structures to address these concerns but any new format, if adopted, will not come into play until the 2025 competition.
This week the CCCC signalled three potential alternatives for counties to consider. From there, any potential change in structure would need the approval of Central Council.
Option one would look at the GAA reverting to a meritocracy of 12 teams, with the top six teams in Division 1A and the next six in Division 1B, as applied from 2012-19.
Each county would play five games and the top team in 1B would join the top three in Division 1A in league semi-finals.
There would be no change to Divisions 2 or 3.
Option two would see a 12-team Division 1 with six seeded games for each county.
Teams would be seeded based on finishing positions from the previous year. Each team would play games against first, second and third seeds, ensuring that each county gets games at their own standard.
Again, there would be no change to Divisions 2 or 3
Options 3 would see an NHL of five divisions with seven teams in each. This would increase the number of teams in the top two divisions to 14 rather than the current 12 but with two teams going up and down in both divisions, it should ensure competitiveness.
It would also reduce the risk of a Liam MacCarthy Cup team being cut adrift from top-flight league hurling for a prolonged spell.
Feedback from counties must be relayed back to HQ by the end of September.
Option 2 is nonsense, are there 11 league games or do you just play some teams and not all? Way to complicated.
5 divisions of 7, where are getting 35 counties from? Are their three from England and will Cavan keep fielding? I know London field and so do Warickshire, who is the other county?
So basically Kilkenny or Tipperary don't fancy a trip to Belfast every year so rearrange the league. I know the Cats were up here twice this year league and championship, maybe that's the issue
Every year there is talk about spreading and promoting the game, then a big county gets annoyed and we alter things to suit them. Same old same old.
Quote from: keep her low this half on September 10, 2023, 05:44:43 PM
Option 2 is nonsense, are there 11 league games or do you just play some teams and not all? Way to complicated.
5 divisions of 7, where are getting 35 counties from? Are their three from England and will Cavan keep fielding? I know London field and so do Warickshire, who is the other county?
So basically Kilkenny or Tipperary don't fancy a trip to Belfast every year so rearrange the league. I know the Cats were up here twice this year league and championship, maybe that's the issue
Every year there is talk about spreading and promoting the game, then a big county gets annoyed and we alter things to suit them. Same old same old.
Option 3 makes the most sense in it's simplicity, there's jeopardy throughout the league structures with 2 going up and 2 going down, but your point is valid as I keep saying.
BUT it probably won't get the votes from the top teams as you've 5 Munster counties and realistically 4 Leinster counties, (Antrim and Westmeath's opinions don't really count) so that would be 2 having to hold their noses and play the likes of Carlow, Laois, Antrim, Kerry, Westmeath and the likes for a whole year and that just wouldn't do.
These changes aren't being driven to improve development within the weaker counties, it's all about the Liam McCarthy counties and what they want and it's not even that!
There would be no change to Divisions 2 or 3. as they're perfect the way they are or we haven't given it any thought as we don't give a shít???
It would also reduce the risk of a Liam MacCarthy Cup team being cut adrift from top-flight league hurling for a prolonged spell. There you go, spelled right out in black and white.
The fact that is was included tells you they don't consider Antrim or Westmeath/Carlow as a Liam MaCarthy county as what would be the issue of having 4 Liam McCarthy counties in Div2?
I think Toni Kroos if you put a Portumna jersey on him and were looking from the stand and he had the helmet off would easily be mistaken for Joe Canning
(https://healthygeorge.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Toni-Kroos.jpeg)
new rules being trialled with the Freshers hurlers;
Our Game (https://twitter.com/OurGameHQ/status/1704896375865958861)
Quote from: marty34 on September 08, 2023, 07:16:47 PMQuote from: johnnycool on September 08, 2023, 09:34:52 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 08:19:42 PMQuote from: seafoid on September 07, 2023, 05:02:36 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on September 07, 2023, 02:47:56 PMffs sf they're well conditioned yes but they're fantastic hurlers. If you're just putting this down to s&c then you're missing quite a bit here. Have you noticed as well as anything that they also shift their tactics round that time when they notice how the opposition is playing?
It's the combination but the key difference is the power boost. And it's like a multiplication. Some other teams are skilled but they don't have the power.
I also think that Limerick's power peaks in the championship endgame. They were just as skilled in Munster
It's hurling not a video game ;D
Some of the KK lads are a bit off on the S&C though, take Tom Phelan, I thought he was a young lad, 21 or 22 or so, but he's 27.
A fine hurler but was bounced about and lost possession twice in the tackle in the second half that I can remember. Now he'd have been better off not going into those tackles although a lot of the time with Limerick those tackles come to you..
On the flip side, take Cathal O'Neill or Adam English, bit part players, 20 to 21 years old and far better conditioned for this type of hurling.
Kilkenny do have a bit of catching up to do in terms of S&C, no doubt but it starts in the youth teams and not when they're adults.
In fairness, Phelan was probably one of KK's best players in the final. Iirc, he got 3pts after being emptied by WOD after 5 mins.
Phelan gave Byrnes a hard time of it when Kilkenny were going well in the first half
Matt Williams, on bringing the Joe Mac rugby teams up to the level where they could beat Italy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1v690GDm2c
The Championship will be a poorer place this year without Aussie, even with the limited time he has had recently always brings something different to the game and is a pleasure to watch. Hopefully finds the drive for it again at some point.
Quote from: NAG1 on September 27, 2023, 09:20:06 AMThe Championship will be a poorer place this year without Aussie, even with the limited time he has had recently always brings something different to the game and is a pleasure to watch. Hopefully finds the drive for it again at some point.
Maybe he wasn't keen on being part of a two man FF line with no other waterford players within 50 yards of him and Dessie!
I always felt for Conor McDonald at Wex and Maurice Shanahan back the first time Davy was with Waterford. They'd to work like dogs against 3 or 4 defenders.
Aussie is some talent and we may never see the best of them. Unfortunately he emerged in an era where managers have gone OTT with restrictive game plans and players like Aussie don't get to express themselves.
Allstar nominations
Only 2 KK forwards
Home Sport GAA Hurling
Gearóid Hegarty and Declan Hannon omitted but Limerick still dominate hurling All-Star nominations
Limerick's Cian Lynch, left, and Kyle Hayes. Photo: David Fitzgerald/Sportsfile
Limerick's Cian Lynch, left, and Kyle Hayes. Photo: David Fitzgerald/Sportsfile
Michael Verney
Today at 08:00
Former Hurler of the Year Gearóid Hegarty and Limerick skipper Declan Hannon are notable omissions from this year's PwC GAA/GPA All-Star nominees but the all-conquering Treaty still lead the way with a whopping 14 contenders.
Hegarty, an All-Star in each of the past three seasons, didn't make the cut after a patchy season by his standards while injury ruled Hannon, a three-time All-Star, out of the All-Ireland series.
John Kiely's men are still sure to lead the way when the awards are handed out on Friday November 17, though, and there is a first nomination for David Reidy after the Dromin Athlacca clubman forced his way into the starting 15 for the latter stages of the championship.
Mike Casey is another Limerick nominee as the Na Piarsaigh defender bids to become the last of Limerick's regular starters to be honoured with an All-Star.
There is also certain to be another Limerick man crowned Hurler of the Year with Diarmaid Byrnes chasing back-to-back wins while he is joined in the shortlist by Patrickswell clubmate Aaron Gillane and Kyle Hayes.
Read more
Brian Lohan rings the changes to Clare backroom team with former Banner star Brendan Bugler a high-profile addition
Kieran Donaghy: There were a few other approaches but I shut them down
Austin Gleeson opts out of Waterford squad for 2024 in hammer blow for Davy Fitz
All-Ireland finalists Kilkenny, who also secured a Leinster four-in-a-row, receive eight nominations with TJ Reid chasing his seventh All-Star while his Ballyhale Shamrocks clubmate Eoin Cody is in line for his his first award.
Munster runners-up Clare receive nine nominations with Tony Kelly bidding to win his fifth award and become the most successful Banner player in All-Star history.
It could also be a special night for his team-mates Adam Hogan and Mark Rodgers with the Clare pair nominated for All-Stars as well as being in the running with Cork's Ciarán Joyce to be crowned Young Hurler of the Year.
Elsewhere, Galway have six All-Star contenders with ace attacker Conor Whelan most likely to make the final 15 while Cork veteran Patrick Horgan is one of four Rebels nominated as he seeks his fifth award.
1:33
Today's Sport News in 90 Seconds - 28th September
�PwC GAA/GPA Hurling All-Star Nominations
Goalkeepers: Eoin Murphy (Kilkenny), Nickie Quaid (Limerick), Eibhear Quilligan (Clare).
Defenders: Barry Nash, Mike Casey, Dan Morrissey, Kyle Hayes, Diarmaid Byrnes (all Limerick), Mikey Butler, Huw Lawlor, Paddy Deegan, David Blanchfield (all Kilkenny), John Conlon, Adam Hogan, Diarmuid Ryan, David McInerney (all Clare), Ciarán Joyce, Damien Cahalane (both Cork), Jack Grealish, Daithí Burke (both Galway), Ronan Maher (Tipperary).
Midfielders: Darragh O'Donovan, Will O'Donoghue (both Limerick), Noel McGrath (Tipperary), Darragh Fitzgibbon (Cork), David Fitzgerald (Clare), Adrian Mullen (Kilkenny).
Forwards: Cian Lynch, Peter Casey, Tom Morrissey, Aaron Gillane, Séamus Flanagan, David Reidy (all Limerick), Cathal Mannion, Conor Whelan, Brian Concannon, Evan Niland (all Galway), Tony Kelly, Shane O'Donnell, Mark Rodgers (all Clare), TJ Reid, Eoin Cody (both Kilkenny), Jake Morris (Tipperary), Dónal Burke (Dublin), Patrick Horgan (Cork).
PwC GAA/GPA Hurler of the Year Nominees: Kyle Hayes, Aaron Gillane, Diarmaid Byrnes (all Limerick).
PwC GAA/GPA Young Hurler of the Year Nominees: Adam Hogan (Clare), Mark Rodgers (Clare), Ciarán Joyce (Cork).
Conor Whelan is nailed on. After that it's not looking good for Galway.
Quote from: Cyril Farrell fan on September 28, 2023, 06:39:20 PMConor Whelan is nailed on. After that it's not looking good for Galway.
KK will get more because they got hammered in the final rather than the semi final. The 2 teams were equally mediocre against JP McManus.
Quote from: seafoid on September 28, 2023, 06:50:21 PMQuote from: Cyril Farrell fan on September 28, 2023, 06:39:20 PMConor Whelan is nailed on. After that it's not looking good for Galway.
KK will get more because they got hammered in the final rather than the semi final. The 2 teams were equally mediocre against JP McManus.
Yep, there's some sort of formula at play with rarely gets discarded.
You'd think Clare will get at least three though, Conlan, Kelly and O'Donnell but they won't.
Quote from: johnnycool on September 29, 2023, 10:51:55 AMQuote from: seafoid on September 28, 2023, 06:50:21 PMQuote from: Cyril Farrell fan on September 28, 2023, 06:39:20 PMConor Whelan is nailed on. After that it's not looking good for Galway.
KK will get more because they got hammered in the final rather than the semi final. The 2 teams were equally mediocre against JP McManus.
Yep, there's some sort of formula at play with rarely gets discarded.
You'd think Clare will get at least three though, Conlan, Kelly and O'Donnell but they won't.
The 3 should get 2 each
Limerick 7
Kilkenny 5
Clare 2
Galway 1
The difference between 5 and 1 was a jammy goal.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/1115/1416662-limerick-and-kilkenny-dozen-on-all-star-hurling-team/
In the early 80s the finalists got 6.
In 1983 Nicky English won an All Star based on his potential. Tipp won nothing.It would be another 4 years before they won Munster for the first time since 1971. He must have only been 21 or 22. He subsequently became one of the greats. The All Stars now are more like the Ballon D'or. There is no room for developing stars.
Quote from: seafoid on November 16, 2023, 08:59:32 AMLimerick 7
Kilkenny 5
Clare 2
Galway 1
The difference between 5 and 1 was a jammy goal.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/1115/1416662-limerick-and-kilkenny-dozen-on-all-star-hurling-team/
In the early 80s the finalists got 6.
Galway were average enough this year and only Whelan deserved one.
Kilkenny will be happy with 5. Limerick lads will, no doubt, add on a few more before the end of their careers. Hard to catch Henry on 11. Unreal!
Great recognition for the players at the end of the year. Well deserved. Nice individual honour.
Quote from: marty34 on November 16, 2023, 06:03:27 PMQuote from: seafoid on November 16, 2023, 08:59:32 AMLimerick 7
Kilkenny 5
Clare 2
Galway 1
The difference between 5 and 1 was a jammy goal.
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/1115/1416662-limerick-and-kilkenny-dozen-on-all-star-hurling-team/
In the early 80s the finalists got 6.
Galway were average enough this year and only Whelan deserved one.
Kilkenny will be happy with 5. Limerick lads will, no doubt, add on a few more before the end of their careers. Hard to catch Henry on 11. Unreal!
Great recognition for the players at the end of the year. Well deserved. Nice individual honour.
Limerick are still far ahead. Leading the Peleton are KK, Galway and Clare. There is very little between them. The All-stars do not reflect this. The focus on the final distorts the reality imo.
Ultimately they are individual awards though and take for example KK - Eoin Cody, Lawlor, Butler etc are outstanding individuals. Limerick are much better as a team and tbh as individuals they are too but had a bit of churn this year with injuries or would deserve more. (Incidentally I actually don't think their 2 midfielders deserved one).
Clare have some outstanding individuals but Tony Kelly just hasn't performed on the big occasion too many times to get one - I would agree he didn't deserve one and the others just didn't do enough. Galway weren't really at it this year tbh.
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 17, 2023, 08:57:05 AMUltimately they are individual awards though and take for example KK - Eoin Cody, Lawlor, Butler etc are outstanding individuals. Limerick are much better as a team and tbh as individuals they are too but had a bit of churn this year with injuries or would deserve more. (Incidentally I actually don't think their 2 midfielders deserved one).
Clare have some outstanding individuals but Tony Kelly just hasn't performed on the big occasion too many times to get one - I would agree he didn't deserve one and the others just didn't do enough. Galway weren't really at it this year tbh.
Yet Butler gets one for keeping him quiet??
Don't agree on the TJ Reid one but this happens all the time with great hurlers in their twilight years pick up a few extra baubles, same as Henry at Horgan.
Kilkenny got sucker punched in the final like Galway in the semi. Neither team had an answer. It is probably better to lose a semi in that scenario. Losing finals is horrible.
That ball from Peter duggan for Clare's first goal was something else.
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 04, 2024, 03:11:48 PMThat ball from Peter duggan for Clare's first goal was something else.
Was decent game, the Kilkenny Wexford game (on Twitter at least) looked good
Antrim had a strong 25 minutes against Limerick! Hiding now
Quote from: imtommygunn on February 04, 2024, 03:11:48 PMThat ball from Peter duggan for Clare's first goal was something else.
That was David Fitzgerald....
;D I realised this when I watched it back.
Usually want to see the antrim games on tv but not that one. Going to be a tough year.
Some sideline pass on Saturday by Tipp's O'Meara (iirc).
Unreal pass on a patchy enough pitch.
Quote from: didlyi on February 05, 2024, 10:46:19 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on February 04, 2024, 03:11:48 PMThat ball from Peter duggan for Clare's first goal was something else.
That was David Fitzgerald....
Early days but Cork still haven't resolved their issues of a ball winner in their forwards, granted Barrett made a difference when he came on, but for the most part the Clare backs weren't too phased by the Cork forwards even with a few first teamers missing.
Wexford hopefully will be the dark horses this year with Rossiter in charge. They've a good few talented players in their ranks, hopefully a more ambitious gameplan and key lads avoiding injury could see them give the Leinster championship a good rattle to challenge the Kilkenny, Galway hegemony.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 05, 2024, 04:02:26 PMQuote from: didlyi on February 05, 2024, 10:46:19 AMQuote from: imtommygunn on February 04, 2024, 03:11:48 PMThat ball from Peter duggan for Clare's first goal was something else.
That was David Fitzgerald....
Early days but Cork still haven't resolved their issues of a ball winner in their forwards, granted Barrett made a difference when he came on, but for the most part the Clare backs weren't too phased by the Cork forwards even with a few first teamers missing.
Wexford hopefully will be the dark horses this year with Rossiter in charge. They've a good few talented players in their ranks, hopefully a more ambitious gameplan and key lads avoiding injury could see them give the Leinster championship a good rattle to challenge the Kilkenny, Galway hegemony.
Issue is Pat Horgan and Conor Lehane are still starting these days. Probably a few others of the older guard are still there.
In anything, these lads should be rested until the drier sod and the sun is higher in the sky. Time to blood new lads in the league and let them get at it.
I get what your are saying but its been very hard for Cork to replace the likes of Horgan, the man weighs in with 10 or more points (granted a lot are frees) but to an extent he wins a few of them himself and he's been their best target man.
I think its difficult to just 'save' players and hope they find their form coming the drier sod, Cork, traditionally should be performing better with the pick of players they have to choose from over other counties, that's their biggest issue.
I enjoyed yesterdays game and Clare showing they have plenty of depth too, to their squad, its sustaining a run of wins to win Liam in the Championship that they are falling down on, and Limerick ;)
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 06, 2024, 11:34:28 AMI get what your are saying but its been very hard for Cork to replace the likes of Horgan, the man weighs in with 10 or more points (granted a lot are frees) but to an extent he wins a few of them himself and he's been their best target man.
I think its difficult to just 'save' players and hope they find their form coming the drier sod, Cork, traditionally should be performing better with the pick of players they have to choose from over other counties, that's their biggest issue.
I enjoyed yesterdays game and Clare showing they have plenty of depth too, to their squad, its sustaining a run of wins to win Liam in the Championship that they are falling down on, and Limerick ;)
Horgan hasn't been a threat from play in a few years now. He's got his standard move of running around the back of a Cork player in possession to take the pass and tap over the bar.
Cork need a serious goal getter in there and it's no longer Horgan.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 06, 2024, 01:53:28 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 06, 2024, 11:34:28 AMI get what your are saying but its been very hard for Cork to replace the likes of Horgan, the man weighs in with 10 or more points (granted a lot are frees) but to an extent he wins a few of them himself and he's been their best target man.
I think its difficult to just 'save' players and hope they find their form coming the drier sod, Cork, traditionally should be performing better with the pick of players they have to choose from over other counties, that's their biggest issue.
I enjoyed yesterdays game and Clare showing they have plenty of depth too, to their squad, its sustaining a run of wins to win Liam in the Championship that they are falling down on, and Limerick ;)
Horgan hasn't been a threat from play in a few years now. He's got his standard move of running around the back of a Cork player in possession to take the pass and tap over the bar.
Cork need a serious goal getter in there and it's no longer Horgan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HV9ccAYnnPs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZBtyjWvXj0
Quote from: johnnycool on February 06, 2024, 01:53:28 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on February 06, 2024, 11:34:28 AMI get what your are saying but its been very hard for Cork to replace the likes of Horgan, the man weighs in with 10 or more points (granted a lot are frees) but to an extent he wins a few of them himself and he's been their best target man.
I think its difficult to just 'save' players and hope they find their form coming the drier sod, Cork, traditionally should be performing better with the pick of players they have to choose from over other counties, that's their biggest issue.
I enjoyed yesterdays game and Clare showing they have plenty of depth too, to their squad, its sustaining a run of wins to win Liam in the Championship that they are falling down on, and Limerick ;)
Horgan hasn't been a threat from play in a few years now. He's got his standard move of running around the back of a Cork player in possession to take the pass and tap over the bar.
Cork need a serious goal getter in there and it's no longer Horgan.
Declan Dalton could be an option but I think he's currently injured.
Plus he's good on the frees.
Just saying hard to see any development with players if Lehane and Horgan starting in the first league game.
Will Tipp be able to challenge Limerick munster this year ?
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2024/0206/1430856-big-guns-face-big-questions-in-the-league-this-weekend/
We thought this league might deliver more than last year in terms of more meaningful games and it's so far so good.
There was a great battle in Nowlan Park with honours even at the end, a good showing from Tipp and Clare and Limerick just being Limerick.
What a nice way to start this campaign for the All-Ireland champions, not much limelight, took care of Antrim, will do similarly against Westmeath at the weekend getting business done without too much outside focus.
It's ideal preparation for the team trying to make history this year, because when the limelight comes on them, it probably won't go off until the year is over. Such is the joy of being the best team in the country, everybody wants to nitpick every minute detail of them.
Being in 1B is an easier road to try and secure that Division 1A status in 2025. Realistically if they beat Dublin it's a done deal for Limerick and Galway. Tipp have that box ticked already and should now be safe to secure one of those top three spots so how will they approach the rest of this league now?
On Sunday at 3.45pm in Semple Stadium, Eamon O'Shea will try do something for the first time, coach a team to beat Tipperary. There is nothing but respect for him in Tipp and we'd all love to see things go well for him with Galway but not at Tipp's cost.
Will Cahill go for this and send out another message after their impressive performance against the Dubs in Parnell Park?
The learnings from previous seasons will have to be to make sure there is enough in the tank to compete at the business end of the year, and I think the panel is stronger and better equipped this year to do just that.
Tipperary turned on the style against Dublin
There is a wider spread of players to choose from and I'm sure someone will be getting the tap on the shoulder at training this week to say here's your chance now, against a top team, at home and in front of what should be a big crowd. Take this chance, prove you can mix it with the best because if it's left to the Antrim and Westmeath games to get your chance it's hard to see how the trust can be there for the battlefield that is the Munster Championship.
Whoever gets their chance this Sunday, I hope they grab it with both hands. I like what Tipp are about, I like the look of competition within the group and some young guns putting up their hands now saying I want that jersey.
I really thought Cork would hop off this league campaign but if they don't get something against Kilkenny on Saturday night by the banks of the Lee their campaign could be over before it has begun. It's a massive game for Cork, it's a game that will show us just how badly they want to progress in this league.
Kilkenny will be Kilkenny and give it their all. Nine of the starting XV from the All-Ireland final last year did not even feature last Sunday. I'd imagine we will see a few of those guys in action this Saturday night.
But what Cork team will we see Saturday night? The Cork that like a nice game of hurling - you score, we score and we'll see how it ends up - or a Cork team that are going to send out a message to say last year we were close, this year we'll be better and we want to give this league a serious rattle?
Cork need to step up their approach in my opinion. You can't just canter through these games and hope it will all click come championship.
There are games in the league that teams need to go after, that they need to win to create that buzz in training, to create momentum for the group, Saturday night against Kilkenny in their newly named home ground is one such game for Pat Ryan's men.
A win for the Banner men on Sunday would almost guarantee them safety as they will view the Offaly game as a gimme for them.
Pre-game last Sunday you'd have worried for a Clare team without their greatest ever in Tony Kelly, John Conlon and Shane O'Donnell but Mark Rodgers looks to be relishing the burden of expectation and there will be lots of help for him all around the field.
Clare have the hurlers, the physicality, the class to mix it with any team. My concern for them is that while they put up big scores on a regular basis, they also concede big scores.
In last year's Munster Championship, they conceded on average 28 points per game. Against a poor Cork performance for the majority of that game last Sunday they gave up 2-19.
Where's the issue here? Is it poor defending? Is it the lack of pressure on the quality of ball being delivered in, players not tracking the runners? I'm not sure but in terms of defenders they have some of the best in the likes of Conor Cleary, Adam Hogan, Paul Flanagan, Diarmuid Ryan, David McInerney and John Conlon to name a few.
Clare have questions to answer
I'm sure if these high scores keep getting shipped it's an area they will have to look at to see what is the best resolution because I feel Clare need a cup on the table this year to justify just how good this group are but conceding 28 points per game could be a major factor in preventing them doing so.
Inter-county hurling action is back and the crowds are talking with their feet.
It's been a great start to be fair, more of the same this weekend please before hurling takes a break next weekend with some teams knowing we've done all we can and others wondering what are we going to do now with nothing to show from two games. Panic stations – not at all but it will leave these groups with more questions than answers.
Cork have finally realised you need to tackle...
Great second half... Kilkenny turned off and Cork just found a spark...
You can't give teams leads like that and expect to pull the rabbit out of the hat at the end..
It's all flashes of quality here and there with Cork and absolutely no consistency. Hard to see them having enough to finish above Limerick, Clare, Tipp in Munster. And we know how that will go down for the 2nd year in a row with the public down there
Good match so far between Antrim and Dublin with the wind favouring Antrim in the second half
Galway have had a decent spell coming up to half time.
Just the 12 steps I counted for the Waterford goal v Clare ;)
Quote from: Saffrongael on February 11, 2024, 07:53:54 PMJust the 12 steps I counted for the Waterford goal v Clare ;)
The ref couldn't see if he tapped the ball on the stick or not, cos he was facing away and had a big Clare mullocker on his back.
Donal Óg gets ten monologues a year written into his contract? It's so painfully set up and the man does not give a flyin' f**k about Ulster Hurling.
He was on one about the split season and then when a Westmeath player said he loved it...there was nothing said. I'd be more keen to hear from the likes of the Louth Captain who was on last night.
But, hurling folk are more precious than rugby people. If you don't scream hurling is the best game ever then they have an issue. Maybe some people don't like it. Maybe kids, even the ones who start young simply do not enjoy it as much as other sports...that's just a thought mind.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on February 12, 2024, 11:32:48 AMDonal Óg gets ten monologues a year written into his contract? It's so painfully set up and the man does not give a flyin' f**k about Ulster Hurling.
He was on one about the split season and then when a Westmeath player said he loved it...there was nothing said. I'd be more keen to hear from the likes of the Louth Captain who was on last night.
But, hurling folk are more precious than rugby people. If you don't scream hurling is the best game ever then they have an issue. Maybe some people don't like it. Maybe kids, even the ones who start young simply do not enjoy it as much as other sports...that's just a thought mind.
he spoke really well last night, GAA really need to help the smaller hurling counties as he said not just pay them lip service
I agree, but the likes of Donal Óg and the other lads do pay lip service. Then if the sacred cow of MUNSTER HURLING!!! gets slighted or not lauded enough then he goes nuclear.
The same lad had a needless diog at the Tailteann Cup last year and I reckon plenty like him don't respect hurling outside the big lads.
It's a strange one where they moan about hurling not growing but then it's a massive issue if any of the Liam McCarthy lads' funds go to help weaker counties.
I do tend to say the real hurling men are the ones who are plugging away in the trenches.
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on February 12, 2024, 11:32:48 AMDonal Óg gets ten monologues a year written into his contract? It's so painfully set up and the man does not give a flyin' f**k about Ulster Hurling.
He was on one about the split season and then when a Westmeath player said he loved it...there was nothing said. I'd be more keen to hear from the likes of the Louth Captain who was on last night.
But, hurling folk are more precious than rugby people. If you don't scream hurling is the best game ever then they have an issue. Maybe some people don't like it. Maybe kids, even the ones who start young simply do not enjoy it as much as other sports...that's just a thought mind.
His rant before the Cork v Kilkenny game was something to behold.
He was giving out that Croke Park allowed Cork to proceed with the renovations to SuperValue Pairc and this was a millstone around Cork GAA, you really couldn't make it up.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1756410086505754770 (https://twitter.com/i/status/1756410086505754770)
Quote from: Gallybander on February 11, 2024, 10:03:24 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on February 11, 2024, 07:53:54 PMJust the 12 steps I counted for the Waterford goal v Clare ;)
The ref couldn't see if he tapped the ball on the stick or not, cos he was facing away and had a big Clare mullocker on his back.
;D
Quote from: Captain Scarlet on February 12, 2024, 11:32:48 AMDonal Óg gets ten monologues a year written into his contract? It's so painfully set up and the man does not give a flyin' f**k about Ulster Hurling.
He was on one about the split season and then when a Westmeath player said he loved it...there was nothing said. I'd be more keen to hear from the likes of the Louth Captain who was on last night.
But, hurling folk are more precious than rugby people. If you don't scream hurling is the best game ever then they have an issue. Maybe some people don't like it. Maybe kids, even the ones who start young simply do not enjoy it as much as other sports...that's just a thought mind.
Not all hurling people are.
Donal Og is a dose talking about the sacred Munster hurling championship
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peAFdYkxbVo&t=281s
The longest period Cork went without winning an all Ireland used to be 1903-19 or 16 years.
For Kilkenny the longest period was 1922-32 and 1947-57 or 10 years.
Cork's Last all Ireland was 2005 so this year is year 19
Kilkenny's last all Ireland was 2015 so this year is year 10.
#Jaysus
Who introduced the short hurls to the game? It seems to have happened between the 2020 all ireland and the 2021 final. Was it Limerick ?
2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qRfeHtqpxw
2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0rzgUeFv4Y
Quote from: seafoid on February 16, 2024, 05:21:05 PMWho introduced the short hurls to the game? It seems to have happened between the 2020 all ireland and the 2021 final. Was it Limerick ?
2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qRfeHtqpxw
2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0rzgUeFv4Y
Marty Mallon in Down was playing with a 32" hurl in the 90's. Everyone else was hammering away with 36 and 37" hurls at that time.
What is the future of hurling ?
20 minutes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Sz3ZjcJ1To
Kyle Hayes starts for Limerick against the Dubs this weekend, a month before his sentencing trial...
Do Limerick know something the rest of us don't?
Quote from: johnnycool on February 23, 2024, 08:43:28 AMKyle Hayes starts for Limerick against the Dubs this weekend, a month before his sentencing trial...
Do Limerick know something the rest of us don't?
I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just John Kiely trying to create a siege mentality from within and he is firmly backing his player. Rightly or wrongly but he's stuck his neck on the block for Hayes.
Quote from: yellowcard on February 23, 2024, 10:47:08 AMQuote from: johnnycool on February 23, 2024, 08:43:28 AMKyle Hayes starts for Limerick against the Dubs this weekend, a month before his sentencing trial...
Do Limerick know something the rest of us don't?
I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just John Kiely trying to create a siege mentality from within and he is firmly backing his player. Rightly or wrongly but he's stuck his neck on the block for Hayes.
Probably wrongly
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2024, 01:11:52 PMQuote from: yellowcard on February 23, 2024, 10:47:08 AMQuote from: johnnycool on February 23, 2024, 08:43:28 AMKyle Hayes starts for Limerick against the Dubs this weekend, a month before his sentencing trial...
Do Limerick know something the rest of us don't?
I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just John Kiely trying to create a siege mentality from within and he is firmly backing his player. Rightly or wrongly but he's stuck his neck on the block for Hayes.
Probably wrongly
Many will hold that view but Kiely either believes in his innocence or he has decided to completely ignore any off the field misconduct because he sees Hayes' value to this Limerick team as being greater than any moralistic standpojnt.
If Hayes was a fringe player I'm not sure he would have thought it worth the media scrutiny of deciding to play him in a League game in February. If Hayes walks free an innocent man and helps Limerick create history to win 5 in a row Kiely will feel vindicated in standing by his player.
Quote from: yellowcard on February 23, 2024, 02:30:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 23, 2024, 01:11:52 PMQuote from: yellowcard on February 23, 2024, 10:47:08 AMQuote from: johnnycool on February 23, 2024, 08:43:28 AMKyle Hayes starts for Limerick against the Dubs this weekend, a month before his sentencing trial...
Do Limerick know something the rest of us don't?
I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just John Kiely trying to create a siege mentality from within and he is firmly backing his player. Rightly or wrongly but he's stuck his neck on the block for Hayes.
Probably wrongly
Many will hold that view but Kiely either believes in his innocence or he has decided to completely ignore any off the field misconduct because he sees Hayes' value to this Limerick team as being greater than any moralistic standpojnt.
If Hayes was a fringe player I'm not sure he would have thought it worth the media scrutiny of deciding to play him in a League game in February. If Hayes walks free an innocent man and helps Limerick create history to win 5 in a row Kiely will feel vindicated in standing by his player.
He's been found guilty of violent disorder in a court of law, Kiely can believe all he likes, but that's the fact. All we're waiting on is his sentencing
Quote from: johnnycool on February 23, 2024, 04:09:07 PMQuote from: yellowcard on February 23, 2024, 02:30:18 PMQuote from: seafoid on February 23, 2024, 01:11:52 PMQuote from: yellowcard on February 23, 2024, 10:47:08 AMQuote from: johnnycool on February 23, 2024, 08:43:28 AMKyle Hayes starts for Limerick against the Dubs this weekend, a month before his sentencing trial...
Do Limerick know something the rest of us don't?
I wouldn't read too much into it. It's just John Kiely trying to create a siege mentality from within and he is firmly backing his player. Rightly or wrongly but he's stuck his neck on the block for Hayes.
Probably wrongly
Many will hold that view but Kiely either believes in his innocence or he has decided to completely ignore any off the field misconduct because he sees Hayes' value to this Limerick team as being greater than any moralistic standpojnt.
If Hayes was a fringe player I'm not sure he would have thought it worth the media scrutiny of deciding to play him in a League game in February. If Hayes walks free an innocent man and helps Limerick create history to win 5 in a row Kiely will feel vindicated in standing by his player.
He's been found guilty of violent disorder in a court of law, Kiely can believe all he likes, but that's the fact. All we're waiting on is his sentencing
It's not a good look for Kiely at all.
Quote from: johnnycool on February 19, 2024, 09:31:39 AMQuote from: seafoid on February 16, 2024, 05:21:05 PMWho introduced the short hurls to the game? It seems to have happened between the 2020 all ireland and the 2021 final. Was it Limerick ?
2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qRfeHtqpxw
2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0rzgUeFv4Y
Marty Mallon in Down was playing with a 32" hurl in the 90's. Everyone else was hammering away with 36 and 37" hurls at that time.
I was watching a camogie match today. The curse of the rucks. There is no ground hurling any more. This has been replaced by rucks thanks to the short hurls.
Quote from: seafoid on February 23, 2024, 10:17:49 PMQuote from: johnnycool on February 19, 2024, 09:31:39 AMQuote from: seafoid on February 16, 2024, 05:21:05 PMWho introduced the short hurls to the game? It seems to have happened between the 2020 all ireland and the 2021 final. Was it Limerick ?
2020
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qRfeHtqpxw
2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0rzgUeFv4Y
Marty Mallon in Down was playing with a 32" hurl in the 90's. Everyone else was hammering away with 36 and 37" hurls at that time.
I was watching a camogie match today. The curse of the rucks. There is no ground hurling any more. This has been replaced by rucks thanks to the short hurls.
I was at a school match last week and noticed some of the short hurls. Seriously reduces how far the lads can hit it but I suppose it's maybe better for control etc but on a heavy pitch it didn't really improve the quality of the game.
[/quote]
I was watching a camogie match today. The curse of the rucks. There is no ground hurling any more. This has been replaced by rucks thanks to the short hurls.
[/quote]
Players emerging from rucks with one hand up around the bas and the other hand holding the ball. You know from this stance that their first intention is to offload a handpass and they nearly always do. The reward for winning a ruck is too big and hence the rucks get bigger and bigger. We have endless threads on how to solve problems in Gaelic Football yet we are happy for hurling to follow it down the same old handpassing hole. Handpassing is the primary problem and rucks are secondary.
Huge rucks are a very recent development in the game. Ground hurling was much more efficient
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eM5-r5tG3Y
The rucks developed over the last 10 years as did the over use of the throw like handpass. So theres a relationship there. And sure the lack of ground hurling makes rucks more likely but ground hurling has been in decline for 30 years. The way hurling is going the hurl will be used less and the hand even more.
There's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.
Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...
At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.
Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2024, 08:40:45 PMThere's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.
Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...
At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.
Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.
Hurling never stays still. 20 years ago there was the running game of Cork. then Kilkenny introuced stickwork and intensity, Galway and Tipp followed up with the use of space. Limerick brought possession Something else will replace that .
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2024, 08:40:45 PMThere's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.
Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...
At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.
Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.
Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.
Quote from: didlyi on March 02, 2024, 12:54:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2024, 08:40:45 PMThere's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.
Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...
At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.
Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.
Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.
You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2024, 02:12:06 PMQuote from: didlyi on March 02, 2024, 12:54:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2024, 08:40:45 PMThere's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.
Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...
At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.
Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.
Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.
You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?
I think they are unsure and in most cases give the benefit of the doubt to keep the game flowing, as thats what we want right?. If your happy with that then why not just allow throws altogether? More to the point is that even if theres a mm of space between the ball and the hand its just too easy and its why there needs to be change. Hurling was always a game of skill and Im sorry to say these kind of handpasses (not all) are at the very low end of the skills.
Quote from: didlyi on March 02, 2024, 03:11:42 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2024, 02:12:06 PMQuote from: didlyi on March 02, 2024, 12:54:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2024, 08:40:45 PMThere's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.
Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...
At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.
Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.
Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.
You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?
I think they are unsure and in most cases give the benefit of the doubt to keep the game flowing, as thats what we want right?. If your happy with that then why not just allow throws altogether? More to the point is that even if theres a mm of space between the ball and the hand its just too easy and its why there needs to be change. Hurling was always a game of skill and Im sorry to say these kind of handpasses (not all) are at the very low end of the skills.
There's a simple rule in refereeing
If you can't see it you can't call it.
The flow of the game is generally down to the players tbf
Hand passing is an integral part of hurling and done right it can split defences and goals come from that quick pass.
Throws can't be allowed, as it leaves it wide open
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2024, 04:24:27 PMQuote from: didlyi on March 02, 2024, 03:11:42 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2024, 02:12:06 PMQuote from: didlyi on March 02, 2024, 12:54:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2024, 08:40:45 PMThere's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.
Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...
At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.
Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.
Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.
You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?
I think they are unsure and in most cases give the benefit of the doubt to keep the game flowing, as thats what we want right?. If your happy with that then why not just allow throws altogether? More to the point is that even if theres a mm of space between the ball and the hand its just too easy and its why there needs to be change. Hurling was always a game of skill and Im sorry to say these kind of handpasses (not all) are at the very low end of the skills.
There's a simple rule in refereeing
If you can't see it you can't call it.
The flow of the game is generally down to the players tbf
Hand passing is an integral part of hurling and done right it can split defences and goals come from that quick pass.
Throws can't be allowed, as it leaves it wide open
That is your convenient interpretation of the rule which actualy states 'the ball shall be Released and struck with a definite striking action of a hand'.
You have turned the rule around so that we error on the side of throwing rather than clear handpasses.
Handpassing is an integral part of the game but its becoming the primary means of moving the ball. Nobody is saying to get rid of the handpass, just the throw type. Excellent Read below....
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2024/0207/1431014-75-of-handpasses-are-fouls-kelly-urges-rule-change/
Quote from: didlyi on March 03, 2024, 11:05:34 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2024, 04:24:27 PMQuote from: didlyi on March 02, 2024, 03:11:42 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2024, 02:12:06 PMQuote from: didlyi on March 02, 2024, 12:54:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2024, 08:40:45 PMThere's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.
Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...
At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.
Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.
Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.
You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?
I think they are unsure and in most cases give the benefit of the doubt to keep the game flowing, as thats what we want right?. If your happy with that then why not just allow throws altogether? More to the point is that even if theres a mm of space between the ball and the hand its just too easy and its why there needs to be change. Hurling was always a game of skill and Im sorry to say these kind of handpasses (not all) are at the very low end of the skills.
There's a simple rule in refereeing
If you can't see it you can't call it.
The flow of the game is generally down to the players tbf
Hand passing is an integral part of hurling and done right it can split defences and goals come from that quick pass.
Throws can't be allowed, as it leaves it wide open
That is your convenient interpretation of the rule which actualy states 'the ball shall be Released and struck with a definite striking action of a hand'.
You have turned the rule around so that we error on the side of throwing rather than clear handpasses.
Handpassing is an integral part of the game but its becoming the primary means of moving the ball. Nobody is saying to get rid of the handpass, just the throw type. Excellent Read below....
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2024/0207/1431014-75-of-handpasses-are-fouls-kelly-urges-rule-change/
There's nothing convenient about it.. do we just call for fouls in all parts of the game because he probably did it?
Make the rule change and that's that.. but don't be making stuff up.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 03, 2024, 11:32:21 AMQuote from: didlyi on March 03, 2024, 11:05:34 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2024, 04:24:27 PMQuote from: didlyi on March 02, 2024, 03:11:42 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 02, 2024, 02:12:06 PMQuote from: didlyi on March 02, 2024, 12:54:01 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on March 01, 2024, 08:40:45 PMThere's nothing efficient about ground hurling over striking ball from hand or distributing the ball for a pass.
Hurling is a possession game now, controlling the ball allows the team with most possession more chances to win...
At club games you'll still get the Hail Marys coming outta defence but as a forward you'd much prefer a short puc out the wing in space.
Ruck's development would be hard to figure out in terms of changing the dynamic of the game.
Yes of course its a possession game. But that doesnt mean we should take every opportunity including breaking the rules to make possession easier for players.
Why does a players who wins possession in an ugly ruck surrounded by 10 players have the right to throw the ball out to a player outside the ruck. So they can maintain possession?
Why do todays players run straight into contact with the ball knowing they will either be fouled or offload with a throw handpass?
Why do players take the extra steps trying to offload a handpass getting the benefit of the steps rule simply because they are being fouled with spare hands to prevent the offload?
These are all glaring issues with the current possession game. The game doesnt necessarily need to evolve in one direction where we thrive more and more easy possession simply because possession is now king.
A reset is required and it start with implementing rules.
You can only call a throw when you see it.. do you really think the referee allows it?
I think they are unsure and in most cases give the benefit of the doubt to keep the game flowing, as thats what we want right?. If your happy with that then why not just allow throws altogether? More to the point is that even if theres a mm of space between the ball and the hand its just too easy and its why there needs to be change. Hurling was always a game of skill and Im sorry to say these kind of handpasses (not all) are at the very low end of the skills.
There's a simple rule in refereeing
If you can't see it you can't call it.
The flow of the game is generally down to the players tbf
Hand passing is an integral part of hurling and done right it can split defences and goals come from that quick pass.
Throws can't be allowed, as it leaves it wide open
That is your convenient interpretation of the rule which actualy states 'the ball shall be Released and struck with a definite striking action of a hand'.
You have turned the rule around so that we error on the side of throwing rather than clear handpasses.
Handpassing is an integral part of the game but its becoming the primary means of moving the ball. Nobody is saying to get rid of the handpass, just the throw type. Excellent Read below....
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2024/0207/1431014-75-of-handpasses-are-fouls-kelly-urges-rule-change/
There's nothing convenient about it.. do we just call for fouls in all parts of the game because he probably did it?
Make the rule change and that's that.. but don't be making stuff up.
Absouloutely not but with the proposed new rule there is no 'probably', its clearcut.
Jackie Tyrell baring all on the GAA social podcast.
GAA Social (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hgts91)
A very good listen and not afraid to come clean on his own discretions..
On the Cody/Shefflin hand shake he talks about, we'd Cody up last winter for a "legends" talk and Cody came clean on it and wasn't asked about it.
Cody is as Tyrell talks about is an out and out hurling man, his life is lived through that prism and more importantly Cody is a James Stephens and Kilkenny hurling man first and foremost.
Cody articulated that night that for the life of him he really could not understand how any Kilkenny hurler, especially someone like Shefflin who has gained so much from Kilkenny hurling could actually coach a team to try and beat Kilkenny in a Leinster or AI championship.
Old school alright but there's loads of lads with a similar attitude in every club and county in Ireland.
I'm sure there's lads in Tyrone would go mad if Mickey Harte coaches Derry to beat them...
He had already bared a lot of it on Laochra Gael a couple of years ago
Quote from: johnnycool on March 07, 2024, 10:41:07 AMJackie Tyrell baring all on the GAA social podcast.
GAA Social (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hgts91)
A very good listen and not afraid to come clean on his own discretions..
On the Cody/Shefflin hand shake he talks about, we'd Cody up last winter for a "legends" talk and Cody came clean on it and wasn't asked about it.
Cody is as Tyrell talks about is an out and out hurling man, his life is lived through that prism and more importantly Cody is a James Stephens and Kilkenny hurling man first and foremost.
Cody articulated that night that for the life of him he really could not understand how any Kilkenny hurler, especially someone like Shefflin who has gained so much from Kilkenny hurling could actually coach a team to try and beat Kilkenny in a Leinster or AI championship.
Old school alright but there's loads of lads with a similar attitude in every club and county in Ireland.
I'm sure there's lads in Tyrone would go mad if Mickey Harte coaches Derry to beat them...
If Kilkenny were winning it might be different. But kilkenny are really hurting. This is season 10 ...
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2024, 10:31:15 AMQuote from: johnnycool on March 07, 2024, 10:41:07 AMJackie Tyrell baring all on the GAA social podcast.
GAA Social (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hgts91)
A very good listen and not afraid to come clean on his own discretions..
On the Cody/Shefflin hand shake he talks about, we'd Cody up last winter for a "legends" talk and Cody came clean on it and wasn't asked about it.
Cody is as Tyrell talks about is an out and out hurling man, his life is lived through that prism and more importantly Cody is a James Stephens and Kilkenny hurling man first and foremost.
Cody articulated that night that for the life of him he really could not understand how any Kilkenny hurler, especially someone like Shefflin who has gained so much from Kilkenny hurling could actually coach a team to try and beat Kilkenny in a Leinster or AI championship.
Old school alright but there's loads of lads with a similar attitude in every club and county in Ireland.
I'm sure there's lads in Tyrone would go mad if Mickey Harte coaches Derry to beat them...
If Kilkenny were winning it might be different. But kilkenny are really hurting. This is season 10 ...
They're still bagging Leinster titles like hot dinners and whilst they're not winning AI's it isn't Shefflins Galway that's preventing them.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 08, 2024, 01:33:25 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 08, 2024, 10:31:15 AMQuote from: johnnycool on March 07, 2024, 10:41:07 AMJackie Tyrell baring all on the GAA social podcast.
GAA Social (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hgts91)
A very good listen and not afraid to come clean on his own discretions..
On the Cody/Shefflin hand shake he talks about, we'd Cody up last winter for a "legends" talk and Cody came clean on it and wasn't asked about it.
Cody is as Tyrell talks about is an out and out hurling man, his life is lived through that prism and more importantly Cody is a James Stephens and Kilkenny hurling man first and foremost.
Cody articulated that night that for the life of him he really could not understand how any Kilkenny hurler, especially someone like Shefflin who has gained so much from Kilkenny hurling could actually coach a team to try and beat Kilkenny in a Leinster or AI championship.
Old school alright but there's loads of lads with a similar attitude in every club and county in Ireland.
I'm sure there's lads in Tyrone would go mad if Mickey Harte coaches Derry to beat them...
If Kilkenny were winning it might be different. But kilkenny are really hurting. This is season 10 ...
They're still bagging Leinster titles like hot dinners and whilst they're not winning AI's it isn't Shefflins Galway that's preventing them.
Leinsters have no value in Catland
They get hammered on the big day and that really hurts.
Huw Lawlor has never won a senior all Ireland.
If you had said back in 2015 that one of the greatest players in the game, from Kilkenny, would have lost 4 senior finals and won none, nobody would have believed it.
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2024, 05:48:17 PMQuote from: johnnycool on March 08, 2024, 01:33:25 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 08, 2024, 10:31:15 AMQuote from: johnnycool on March 07, 2024, 10:41:07 AMJackie Tyrell baring all on the GAA social podcast.
GAA Social (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hgts91)
A very good listen and not afraid to come clean on his own discretions..
On the Cody/Shefflin hand shake he talks about, we'd Cody up last winter for a "legends" talk and Cody came clean on it and wasn't asked about it.
Cody is as Tyrell talks about is an out and out hurling man, his life is lived through that prism and more importantly Cody is a James Stephens and Kilkenny hurling man first and foremost.
Cody articulated that night that for the life of him he really could not understand how any Kilkenny hurler, especially someone like Shefflin who has gained so much from Kilkenny hurling could actually coach a team to try and beat Kilkenny in a Leinster or AI championship.
Old school alright but there's loads of lads with a similar attitude in every club and county in Ireland.
I'm sure there's lads in Tyrone would go mad if Mickey Harte coaches Derry to beat them...
If Kilkenny were winning it might be different. But kilkenny are really hurting. This is season 10 ...
They're still bagging Leinster titles like hot dinners and whilst they're not winning AI's it isn't Shefflins Galway that's preventing them.
Leinsters have no value in Catland
They get hammered on the big day and that really hurts.
Huw Lawlor has never won a senior all Ireland.
If you had said back in 2015 that one of the greatest players in the game, from Kilkenny, would have lost 4 senior finals and won none, nobody would have believed it.
I know all that, my original point being is that it isn't Shefflins Galway inflicting these defeats, it's Kielys Limerick
Quote from: johnnycool on March 09, 2024, 05:14:31 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 08, 2024, 05:48:17 PMQuote from: johnnycool on March 08, 2024, 01:33:25 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 08, 2024, 10:31:15 AMQuote from: johnnycool on March 07, 2024, 10:41:07 AMJackie Tyrell baring all on the GAA social podcast.
GAA Social (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0hgts91)
A very good listen and not afraid to come clean on his own discretions..
On the Cody/Shefflin hand shake he talks about, we'd Cody up last winter for a "legends" talk and Cody came clean on it and wasn't asked about it.
Cody is as Tyrell talks about is an out and out hurling man, his life is lived through that prism and more importantly Cody is a James Stephens and Kilkenny hurling man first and foremost.
Cody articulated that night that for the life of him he really could not understand how any Kilkenny hurler, especially someone like Shefflin who has gained so much from Kilkenny hurling could actually coach a team to try and beat Kilkenny in a Leinster or AI championship.
Old school alright but there's loads of lads with a similar attitude in every club and county in Ireland.
I'm sure there's lads in Tyrone would go mad if Mickey Harte coaches Derry to beat them...
If Kilkenny were winning it might be different. But kilkenny are really hurting. This is season 10 ...
They're still bagging Leinster titles like hot dinners and whilst they're not winning AI's it isn't Shefflins Galway that's preventing them.
Leinsters have no value in Catland
They get hammered on the big day and that really hurts.
Huw Lawlor has never won a senior all Ireland.
If you had said back in 2015 that one of the greatest players in the game, from Kilkenny, would have lost 4 senior finals and won none, nobody would have believed it.
I know all that, my original point being is that it isn't Shefflins Galway inflicting these defeats, it's Kielys Limerick
Kilkenny had a jammy win last year. Imo KK and Galway are on a similar level.
This chart is really interesting. Cork and the Cats have been flatlining for a while (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/All_Ireland_Senior_Hurling_Champions_Timeline.png)
Good live game on RTÉ tonight with Limerick winning 0-26 to 3-16
Limerick had 42 scoring chances to Tipps 30 so probably should have won by more, the goals kept Tipp in the game.
Sf Galway have been very poor this last few years. Kk have some fantastic players but as a team I think they are performing above themselves. Galway are definitely not performing above themselves. They've been a big disappointment since they won the ai tbh. They're the only team with the physicality in them to challenge limerick (and beat everyone else) but they never do.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 09, 2024, 09:58:14 PMSf Galway have been very poor this last few years. Kk have some fantastic players but as a team I think they are performing above themselves. Galway are definitely not performing above themselves. They've been a big disappointment since they won the ai tbh. They're the only team with the physicality in them to challenge limerick (and beat everyone else) but they never do.
Galway are poor but so are Kilkenny. Way off the pace. They can't compete for possession in their forwards, they lose too many puckouts , shooting is poor, they can't compete physically.
Winning Leinster means getting a ritual beating in the all Ireland final. Kilkenny get more allstars but they never win the big prize either.
Galway camogie have won 2 all Irelands recently so it's not not that bad overall. 8)
Offaly look as far off the top teams in Div 1 as ever with today's home defeat to Cork. 0-16 to 5-28.
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 10, 2024, 04:25:19 PMOffaly look as far off the top teams in Div 1 as ever with today's home defeat to Cork. 0-16 to 5-28.
Thought the -10 evens was a free one by the bookies..
This match is a war of attrition! Some fielding in tough conditions..
Hopefully Wexford hold on, Waterford have been wasteful with shots selections. But 3 in it with 5 to go
Great win for Wexford. They were very impressive
I wasn't expecting Kilkenny to lose. Cody will be on DEFCON 1
Offaly took some hammering from Cork. Some games as lopsided as football, looks bad when u think Offaly actually won few all Irelands 30yrs ago.They fell badly away.
The 1a and 1b should help that. You've effectively division 1 and 2 mixed together. They have a long way to come back though. Antrim against Galway was probably no better the other week and Westmeath have had similar hammerings.
SF the difference is Galway should be so much better than they are. KK aren't fantastic at the minute but are really making the most out of themselves. They are beating everyone bar Limerick. Having a team that should so much better than they are is harder to stomach.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 10, 2024, 07:12:23 PMThe 1a and 1b should help that. You've effectively division 1 and 2 mixed together. They have a long way to come back though. Antrim against Galway was probably no better the other week and Westmeath have had similar hammerings.
SF the difference is Galway should be so much better than they are. KK aren't fantastic at the minute but are really making the most out of themselves. They are beating everyone bar Limerick. Having a team that should so much better than they are is harder to stomach.
The results are the same. What is the point of winning Leinster anyway? From a Galway pov it is better to have KK making a show of themselves in the All Ireland final. 8) Galway have lost enough of them. If Galway are really good enough they will beat Limerick in the semifinal.
Whichever team finds a way to score goals against them might be able to beat them.
3 galway players sent off yesterday so Daithi burke and Conor whelan are unavailable for the match against Limerick next weekend
Quote from: seafoid on March 11, 2024, 01:20:43 PM3 galway players sent off yesterday so Daithi burke and Conor whelan are unavailable for the match against Limerick next weekend
I don't think either have cause for complaint all the same.
Davy Fitz's Waterford bate again and relegated. He had to stop himself from throwing some players under the bus in the interview after the game.
Will he still be in a job in a few months time?
Quote from: johnnycool on March 11, 2024, 04:17:06 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 11, 2024, 01:20:43 PM3 galway players sent off yesterday so Daithi burke and Conor whelan are unavailable for the match against Limerick next weekend
I don't think either have cause for complaint all the same.
Davy Fitz's Waterford bate again and relegated. He had to stop himself from throwing some players under the bus in the interview after the game.
Will he still be in a job in a few months time?
I think the league has been devalued. Nobody seems to be interested.
Every time I hear Craig Morgan mentioned in Tipp games it reminds me of Dillon Quirke.
Waterford will be back after one season anyway.
Yeah tbh I don't go out of my way at all to watch hurling matches at the minute as they feel more like friendlies. Football has far more at stake it seems. Division 1 in hurling is a procession this year. Probably nice for wexford to get one over on davy and clare on kilkenny but still doesn't mean that much.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2024, 04:40:44 PMYeah tbh I don't go out of my way at all to watch hurling matches at the minute as they feel more like friendlies. Football has far more at stake it seems. Division 1 in hurling is a procession this year. Probably nice for wexford to get one over on davy and clare on kilkenny but still doesn't mean that much.
It is indeed all a bit "friendly" at this stage with some counties proving to be more successful at building up a panel for the impending championship round robins but hey, that's what the tier 1 counties wanted.
They never should have done away with the way 1a was. The lower divisions are way more interesting.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2024, 04:40:44 PMYeah tbh I don't go out of my way at all to watch hurling matches at the minute as they feel more like friendlies. Football has far more at stake it seems. Division 1 in hurling is a procession this year. Probably nice for wexford to get one over on davy and clare on kilkenny but still doesn't mean that much.
Football division 2 has jeopardy because of Sam Maguire. Hurling top tier doesn't.
It is interesting to watch but not compelling.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2024, 04:40:44 PMYeah tbh I don't go out of my way at all to watch hurling matches at the minute as they feel more like friendlies. Football has far more at stake it seems. Division 1 in hurling is a procession this year. Probably nice for wexford to get one over on davy and clare on kilkenny but still doesn't mean that much.
Hurling league is probably their group format in the Leinster,Munster championship. Matches at the moment are mainly warm ups before that.
Yeah I don't think the championship format has helped and it is far too compressed too but I guess they all are at the minute.
I think they should have run off the league, week on week until finished.
Then gave the few weeks break during the league to the championship to spread it out a bit.
I thought there was plenty of bite in the Waterford Wexford game yesterday.
Some meaty challenges and no easy fouls to be won!
Waterford would need to work on shot selection and accuracy
They'd plenty opportunity to win that.
On another note, Cavan beat Armagh.
That be like Antrim beating Limerick in the league
Pity to see that as it's an Antrim man managing Armagh!
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2024, 10:05:44 PMPity to see that as it's an Antrim man managing Armagh!
There was an Antrim man managing Cavan last year, not sure if he's there this year
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 11, 2024, 10:38:06 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on March 11, 2024, 10:05:44 PMPity to see that as it's an Antrim man managing Armagh!
There was an Antrim man managing Cavan last year, not sure if he's there this year
Good for Cavan, the same county Croke Park were looking removed from the NHL's
I didn't know that Ciara Mageean's father played hurling for Down and bate Kilkenny back in the 90s.
Quote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 12:56:19 PMI didn't know that Ciara Mageean's father played hurling for Down and bate Kilkenny back in the 90s.
Bate Kilkenny and relegated them to Div2 and in Nowlan park. DJ Carey was playing also.
The team bus lost a window on the Ormeau Road on the way home.
;D
Cork bate us in the league semifinal in Croke Park a few weeks later.
Chrissy AKA the White Hunter was centre forward that day.
Ned Quinn took control of Kilkenny soon after and the rest is history.
Were you playing JC or are you younger than I imagine lol
He was a decent hurler in a very good Down team at the time. A few of those names starting to appear on down seniors now too.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 12, 2024, 01:06:21 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 12, 2024, 12:56:19 PMI didn't know that Ciara Mageean's father played hurling for Down and bate Kilkenny back in the 90s.
Bate Kilkenny and relegated them to Div2 and in Nowlan park. DJ Carey was playing also.
The team bus lost a window on the Ormeau Road on the way home.
;D
Cork bate us in the league semifinal in Croke Park a few weeks later.
Chrissy AKA the White Hunter was centre forward that day.
Ned Quinn took control of Kilkenny soon after and the rest is history.
Cá bhfágfadh sí é?
How could she not be class ?
Very good first half from Galway. Backs putting Limerick under pressure, Forwards rotating and good intensity
Quote from: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 01:59:23 PMVery good first half from Galway. Backs putting Limerick under pressure, Forwards rotating and good intensity
If Galway at home to a 14 man Limerick in a league game aren't able to win then you'd have to wonder what chance have they got of beating them in a knock out championship game this summer?
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 16, 2024, 02:19:23 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 01:59:23 PMVery good first half from Galway. Backs putting Limerick under pressure, Forwards rotating and good intensity
If Galway at home to a 14 man Limerick in a league game aren't able to win then you'd have to wonder what chance have they got of beating them in a knock out championship game this summer?
Fair point. Limerick outscoring them in the 2nd half.
Quote from: marty34 on March 16, 2024, 02:40:01 PMQuote from: Blowitupref on March 16, 2024, 02:19:23 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 01:59:23 PMVery good first half from Galway. Backs putting Limerick under pressure, Forwards rotating and good intensity
If Galway at home to a 14 man Limerick in a league game aren't able to win then you'd have to wonder what chance have they got of beating them in a knock out championship game this summer?
Fair point. Limerick outscoring them in the 2nd half.
A draw the result. Galway outscored 0-8 to 0-5 in the 2nd half.
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 16, 2024, 02:19:23 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 01:59:23 PMVery good first half from Galway. Backs putting Limerick under pressure, Forwards rotating and good intensity
If Galway at home to a 14 man Limerick in a league game aren't able to win then you'd have to wonder what chance have they got of beating them in a knock out championship game this summer?
If Galway were beaten out the gate last year yesterday was an improvement. Intensity and goals may beat Limerick this year. Or may not. Lets see
Dragging us Kilkenny folk to Cork next weekend for the Semi vs Limerick.. bonkers altogether.
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2024, 11:12:43 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on March 16, 2024, 02:19:23 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 01:59:23 PMVery good first half from Galway. Backs putting Limerick under pressure, Forwards rotating and good intensity
If Galway at home to a 14 man Limerick in a league game aren't able to win then you'd have to wonder what chance have they got of beating them in a knock out championship game this summer?
If Galway were beaten out the gate last year yesterday was an improvement. Intensity and goals may beat Limerick this year. Or may not. Lets see
Adam English would start on every other team in the Liam McCarthy cup barring Limerick, but I think we'll see more of him this year.
Kiely might struggle to find his best 15, but he does need fresh blood in there at both ends of the park.
Galway, Clare, Cork, Tipp, Kilkenny would need to catch Limerick on an off day so better hold off on that until the semi-final.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 19, 2024, 11:20:58 AMQuote from: seafoid on March 17, 2024, 11:12:43 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on March 16, 2024, 02:19:23 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 01:59:23 PMVery good first half from Galway. Backs putting Limerick under pressure, Forwards rotating and good intensity
If Galway at home to a 14 man Limerick in a league game aren't able to win then you'd have to wonder what chance have they got of beating them in a knock out championship game this summer?
If Galway were beaten out the gate last year yesterday was an improvement. Intensity and goals may beat Limerick this year. Or may not. Lets see
Adam English would start on every other team in the Liam McCarthy cup barring Limerick, but I think we'll see more of him this year.
Kiely might struggle to find his best 15, but he does need fresh blood in there at both ends of the park.
Galway, Clare, Cork, Tipp, Kilkenny would need to catch Limerick on an off day so better hold off on that until the semi-final.
Clare seems to have made several improvements from last year. The hurling this year should be very interesting. I remember the shock in 2010 when Tipp beat Kilkenny and in 2013 when Cork beat Kilkenny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_EN__VdpqE
Quote from: seafoid on March 19, 2024, 01:26:57 PMQuote from: johnnycool on March 19, 2024, 11:20:58 AMQuote from: seafoid on March 17, 2024, 11:12:43 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on March 16, 2024, 02:19:23 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 01:59:23 PMVery good first half from Galway. Backs putting Limerick under pressure, Forwards rotating and good intensity
If Galway at home to a 14 man Limerick in a league game aren't able to win then you'd have to wonder what chance have they got of beating them in a knock out championship game this summer?
If Galway were beaten out the gate last year yesterday was an improvement. Intensity and goals may beat Limerick this year. Or may not. Lets see
Adam English would start on every other team in the Liam McCarthy cup barring Limerick, but I think we'll see more of him this year.
Kiely might struggle to find his best 15, but he does need fresh blood in there at both ends of the park.
Galway, Clare, Cork, Tipp, Kilkenny would need to catch Limerick on an off day so better hold off on that until the semi-final.
Clare seems to have made several improvements from last year. The hurling this year should be very interesting. I remember the shock in 2010 when Tipp beat Kilkenny and in 2013 when Cork beat Kilkenny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_EN__VdpqE
Barry Kelly and his umpires really didn't do Kilkenny any favours that day.
The red aside there was three dodgy bits of umpiring which all went the way of Cork.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 19, 2024, 02:05:43 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 19, 2024, 01:26:57 PMQuote from: johnnycool on March 19, 2024, 11:20:58 AMQuote from: seafoid on March 17, 2024, 11:12:43 AMQuote from: Blowitupref on March 16, 2024, 02:19:23 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 16, 2024, 01:59:23 PMVery good first half from Galway. Backs putting Limerick under pressure, Forwards rotating and good intensity
If Galway at home to a 14 man Limerick in a league game aren't able to win then you'd have to wonder what chance have they got of beating them in a knock out championship game this summer?
If Galway were beaten out the gate last year yesterday was an improvement. Intensity and goals may beat Limerick this year. Or may not. Lets see
Adam English would start on every other team in the Liam McCarthy cup barring Limerick, but I think we'll see more of him this year.
Kiely might struggle to find his best 15, but he does need fresh blood in there at both ends of the park.
Galway, Clare, Cork, Tipp, Kilkenny would need to catch Limerick on an off day so better hold off on that until the semi-final.
Clare seems to have made several improvements from last year. The hurling this year should be very interesting. I remember the shock in 2010 when Tipp beat Kilkenny and in 2013 when Cork beat Kilkenny.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_EN__VdpqE
Barry Kelly and his umpires really didn't do Kilkenny any favours that day.
The red aside there was three dodgy bits of umpiring which all went the way of Cork.
Usually Kilkenny had enough in the tank to impose themselves on the opposition but they just seemed to run out of gas. I remember watching the match in Co Mayo and even football people were gripped by the unfolding story
The hurling pod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOCExl96IM
Limerick V KK.
English in centre forward to make hay until Kilkenny settle on a centre back for championship, but he won't stay there, he'll rotate with Lynch. Limerick naming a very strong defence in particular, hard to look past them.
Mullen and Cody need big, big games for KK to keep it interesting
Limerick by 5 or more for me
Clare v Tipp.
Clare are confident, but they need Shane O'Donnell and Tony Kelly to get some gametime before championship. Tipp have the first week off in Munster so might be more inclined to target the league final moreso that Clare.
Hard to call, going for Clare due to their better allround squad.
Down hurlers are away to Laois in Div2A semifinal but the Eoghan Sands red card appeal was unsuccessful and that's a big blow to their chances, time for some others to step up, Egan, young McGrattan in particular need to find their scoring form as every one of the forwards needs to be troubling the scoreboard on Saturday.
A dry sod would suit the current Down forwards, hard to see that being the case in Portlaoise but Down are in bonus territory and a win would tare up the bookies form book.
Kilkenny are in trouble. Nicky Brennan quoted in the Irish Times
"The conveyor belt has slowed down. We just haven't been finding the players. "
There was no cat on the higher education rising stars (Fitzgibbon all stars)
4 Clare, 3 x Galway, Tipping, Limerick and 2 Déise.
Kilkenny are cat.
https://youtu.be/G7qEivYkgZM&t=68s
Quote from: seafoid on March 23, 2024, 09:38:08 AMKilkenny are in trouble. Nicky Brennan quoted in the Irish Times
"The conveyor belt has slowed down. We just haven't been finding the players. "
There was no cat on the higher education rising stars (Fitzgibbon all stars)
4 Clare, 3 x Galway, Tipping, Limerick and 2 Déise.
Kilkenny are cat.
https://youtu.be/G7qEivYkgZM&t=68s
I would agree with you yet St Kieran's have been in the last 10 All Ireland school A finals, winning 6/7 of them
Sf they have been in the last two this last two years. Yes they're not winning but they're beating the second best in Munster to get to the final. They're not that bad. Limerick are just a level above.
Quote from: imtommygunn on March 23, 2024, 01:30:29 PMSf they have been in the last two this last two years. Yes they're not winning but they're beating the second best in Munster to get to the final. They're not that bad. Limerick are just a level above.
It's worse than that, tommy.
They don't have anyone to replace TJ. He is 36. In 2022 they stayed with Limerick until 7 minutes before the end. Last year they were gone 20 minutes from the end according to the Irish Times. They don't have the flow of young players to replace the ones who are aging.
The longest period between Kilkenny All Irelands is 10 years. This is year 10 of the latest famine.
Clare are probably better than them now.
Quote from: Saffrongael on March 23, 2024, 11:17:08 AMQuote from: seafoid on March 23, 2024, 09:38:08 AMKilkenny are in trouble. Nicky Brennan quoted in the Irish Times
"The conveyor belt has slowed down. We just haven't been finding the players. "
There was no cat on the higher education rising stars (Fitzgibbon all stars)
4 Clare, 3 x Galway, Tipping, Limerick and 2 Déise.
Kilkenny are cat.
https://youtu.be/G7qEivYkgZM&t=68s
I would agree with you yet St Kieran's have been in the last 10 All Ireland school A finals, winning 6/7 of them
I know from Galway (hurling and football) that it takes a long time to integrate talented underage playerss into senior intercounty teams. It is a system. Kilkenny seem to be missing a generation of county players. Galway footballers had this problem in 2012 or so. It looks like it won't improve for a while.
True, Limerick are a step above everybody else. They are going for 5-in-a-row this year. Never been done before so they're a special outfit.
Hard to judge other teams based on that. They have set the standard.
Limerick getting their lads back in time. Getting them ready for the harder sod. They've gave lads like Ó'Dalaigh, O'Brien and English etc. league game time and they've still very strong. Limerick will want to win the league.
They'll not be having any of this football craic 'we're not interested in the league' or we 'don't want to reach the final' etc. It's great preparation for their upcoming Munster championship.
I'd fancy Tipperary over Clare this week-end, going against the bookies. Cahill likes the league - although his teams have a habit of doing well in league and collapsing in Munster. So it'll be interesting. Maybe he has learned lessons from that. The next few months will tell us more.
It's a big year for Lohan and the Clare lads. Do they want League silverware or are they happy with their lot. They've a strong team named and are still without TK, RT and SOD. Three different, but excellent players for them. How will their fitness be come championship? For one thing, another flop in CP at the semi-final stage and it'd be hard on Lohan gain.
50 minutes played Kilkenny 3-11 Limerick 1-11. Kilkenny down to 14 since the 37th minute with Eoin Cody seeing red.
Two big goal chances for Kilkenny not taken. 14 v 14 with Peter Casey getting sent off on 56 minutes. 65 mins played Kilkenny leading 3-15 to 1-12
KK 8 ahead with 10 mins to go. 14 a side now Limerick making a lot of basic skill errors - most unlike them and KK more up for it.
Overly physical game with too many frees.
A very encouraging result and performance for Kilkenny. 3-17 to 1-15 it finished. As for Limerick It's a while since I've seen them give up so many goal scoring opportunities.
Quote from: Blowitupref on March 23, 2024, 06:03:22 PMA very encouraging result and performance for Kilkenny. 3-17 to 1-15 it finished. As for Limerick It's a while since I've seen them give up so many goal scoring opportunities.
Allowing the young fella to be left alone with TJ Reid on a one on one is criminal for Limerick, I've never seen them so bad, but credit to Kilkenny, they do what they do and and deserve to reach the final.
Kiely has an issue or two to resolve and I know everyone says they'll come good as they've done before, and I know they left it a bit tight in Munster last year with Waterford doing them a favour, but they very might be nipped if they don't get their act together, but we'll know more in a few weeks time when the alleged handbrake will be taken off!
Clare are well on top of Tipp.
It is very unusual to have Cork and KK on record or almost record droughts and Tipp rebuilding
So fat this decade they have no all Irelands.
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2024, 04:29:34 PMClare are well on top of Tipp.
It is very unusual to have Cork and KK on record or almost record droughts and Tipp rebuilding
So fat this decade they have no all Irelands.
Tipp happy to be going in at the break only 7 down, whatever hurling has been done by Clare so far.
Bonnar Maher is lots of things but a full forward isn't one of them, he needs to be further out the field winning dirty ball and driving forward with it.
Clare fouling giving Tipp a lifeline
Quote from: johnnycool on March 24, 2024, 04:41:25 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 24, 2024, 04:29:34 PMClare are well on top of Tipp.
It is very unusual to have Cork and KK on record or almost record droughts and Tipp rebuilding
So fat this decade they have no all Irelands.
Tipp happy to be going in at the break only 7 down, whatever hurling has been done by Clare so far.
Bonnar Maher is lots of things but a full forward isn't one of them, he needs to be further out the field winning dirty ball and driving forward with it.
Clare fouling giving Tipp a lifeline
Tipp are way off so far.
Kiely was interviewed on Radio 1. He said they lacked energy, cohesion and intensity and that it was one of the worst performances in his 8 years.
Tipp have decided to turn up, game on
Game off. Tipp not accurate enough.
19 wides. 10 frees sent wide.
Quote from: seafoid on March 24, 2024, 05:34:38 PM19 wides. 10 frees sent wide.
Clare went up the gears when needed but in general the standard of hurling was poor over the weekend and whilst it may not have looked like it the Down lads say there was quite a lot of sand on the pitch in Portlaoise which probably contributed to the bunching, inability to rise the ball first time etc etc which ensured the game didn't really have any pace to it.
Tipp will be concerned, unsure of the spine of their team, does Maher come out to 6, who goes back in to 3, centre forward is probably where they should be playing Bonnar Maher IMO but they to find a balance in there and lads who can get the most out of Forde and Morris who need the ball in early and in space to cause defences problems.
Clare content that they've a panel now going into championship but Kelly and O'Donnell need game time and surely the final is the place to get them some. Even Ryan Taylor and David McInerney haven't featured to date and are allegedly back to full fitness.
One concern for Clare is that they don't think John Conlan has 70 minutes in him and a stand in centre back isn't Seadna Morey in all fairness. Conlan has played some hurling in the last year with club and county and he isn't getting any younger but he is their talisman and there's more to replacing him than just for his hurling!
David Fitzgerald is a beast of a hurler, size, speed and skill, Clare need him in the game a lot more, but what a weapon.
I was completely wrong in my suggestion that Limerick and Tipperary would win. Both were, in similiar ways, very disappointing.
Tipperary moreso as I was expecting them to front up and tear into Clare but it was the complete opposite. Clare had the fire and dominated the game.
Forde and O'Connor were poor on the frees. Need to be hitting 90% of your free shots at any level. It's a good bulk of your scores nowadays. From watching Tipp yesterday, they have a ot of grafters but maybe need more skill. Maybe that'll come with the harder ground.
Clare were good. Never let up. Building a good panel but they'll have a tough battle in Munster. Fitzgerald is showing his true potential - fast, powerful and works the scoreboard. Cathal Malone is underated - does a mountain of work in that middle third. They, unlike Tipp, hve skilfull and tricky players inside. Hard to work with.
Munster should be fasinating once again. Will Limerick run out of steam. Has Davy's Waterford a kick in them? What Cork will turn up? Hard to believe the league is near over.
Quote from: marty34 on March 25, 2024, 09:21:02 AMI was completely wrong in my suggestion that Limerick and Tipperary would win. Both were, in similiar ways, very disappointing.
Tipperary moreso as I was expecting them to front up and tear into Clare but it was the complete opposite. Clare had the fire and dominated the game.
Forde and O'Connor were poor on the frees. Need to be hitting 90% of your free shots at any level. It's a good bulk of your scores nowadays. From watching Tipp yesterday, they have a ot of grafters but maybe need more skill. Maybe that'll come with the harder ground.
Clare were good. Never let up. Building a good panel but they'll have a tough battle in Munster. Fitzgerald is showing his true potential - fast, powerful and works the scoreboard. Cathal Malone is underated - does a mountain of work in that middle third. They, unlike Tipp, hve skilfull and tricky players inside. Hard to work with.
Munster should be fasinating once again. Will Limerick run out of steam. Has Davy's Waterford a kick in them? What Cork will turn up? Hard to believe the league is near over.
I thought quite a few of the Tipp lads were bulky in the chest area, too much bench pressing over the winter maybe, and looked to be more ponderous than Clare by and large..
Yes, hurling is now a lot more physical than it used to be but pace is still the key asset for me.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 25, 2024, 09:25:41 AMQuote from: marty34 on March 25, 2024, 09:21:02 AMI was completely wrong in my suggestion that Limerick and Tipperary would win. Both were, in similiar ways, very disappointing.
Tipperary moreso as I was expecting them to front up and tear into Clare but it was the complete opposite. Clare had the fire and dominated the game.
Forde and O'Connor were poor on the frees. Need to be hitting 90% of your free shots at any level. It's a good bulk of your scores nowadays. From watching Tipp yesterday, they have a ot of grafters but maybe need more skill. Maybe that'll come with the harder ground.
Clare were good. Never let up. Building a good panel but they'll have a tough battle in Munster. Fitzgerald is showing his true potential - fast, powerful and works the scoreboard. Cathal Malone is underated - does a mountain of work in that middle third. They, unlike Tipp, hve skilfull and tricky players inside. Hard to work with.
Munster should be fasinating once again. Will Limerick run out of steam. Has Davy's Waterford a kick in them? What Cork will turn up? Hard to believe the league is near over.
I thought quite a few of the Tipp lads were bulky in the chest area, too much bench pressing over the winter maybe, and looked to be more ponderous than Clare by and large..
Yes, hurling is now a lot more physical than it used to be but pace is still the key asset for me.
Agree JC. Just seemed to be more workers than shooters. Maybe the guile of the Mc Graths might help but Tyan, Connors, Dan Mc C and Bonnar Maher etc. will win the ball but need the finishers.
Maybe I'm being unfair and it was just one game but I expected a lot more from them. They'll not have a day when their free takers will have as bad a day either.
Maybe Cahill knows his team and experimented during the league but after yesterday, there's a lot more questions than answers I think.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 25, 2024, 09:02:34 AMQuote from: seafoid on March 24, 2024, 05:34:38 PM19 wides. 10 frees sent wide.
Clare went up the gears when needed but in general the standard of hurling was poor over the weekend and whilst it may not have looked like it the Down lads say there was quite a lot of sand on the pitch in Portlaoise which probably contributed to the bunching, inability to rise the ball first time etc etc which ensured the game didn't really have any pace to it.
There was an awful lot of sand on the pitch. Seemingly, a drainage pipe broke underneath, and with all the rain, it had to be fixed - so the pitch was dug up to do it last week.
Munster teams have to peak by end May to qualify . It's 3/5 and it is a dogfight.
Tipp can't peak end March and end May and July considering where they are starting from
https://twitter.com/BrophShane/status/1772003527205716004
The GAA has got a huge problem with the hurling and football leagues as in you can't trust what you are watching. Managers pick games over others to prioritise. So much of this years league has been fake and supporters won't stay paying high admission prices for it.
Quote from: johnnycool on March 25, 2024, 09:02:34 AMQuote from: seafoid on March 24, 2024, 05:34:38 PM19 wides. 10 frees sent wide.
Clare went up the gears when needed but in general the standard of hurling was poor over the weekend and whilst it may not have looked like it the Down lads say there was quite a lot of sand on the pitch in Portlaoise which probably contributed to the bunching, inability to rise the ball first time etc etc which ensured the game didn't really have any pace to it.
Tipp will be concerned, unsure of the spine of their team, does Maher come out to 6, who goes back in to 3, centre forward is probably where they should be playing Bonnar Maher IMO but they to find a balance in there and lads who can get the most out of Forde and Morris who need the ball in early and in space to cause defences problems.
Clare content that they've a panel now going into championship but Kelly and O'Donnell need game time and surely the final is the place to get them some. Even Ryan Taylor and David McInerney haven't featured to date and are allegedly back to full fitness.
One concern for Clare is that they don't think John Conlan has 70 minutes in him and a stand in centre back isn't Seadna Morey in all fairness. Conlan has played some hurling in the last year with club and county and he isn't getting any younger but he is their talisman and there's more to replacing him than just for his hurling!
David Fitzgerald is a beast of a hurler, size, speed and skill, Clare need him in the game a lot more, but what a weapon.
Championship is 25% faster than league. Touch and accuracy are far better. A loss like that may be better for Tipp in the long run if they are honest and want to learn from it.
Clare are probably better overall.
The provincial harness is unfair on Munster because there are 5 decent teams and in Leinster there aren't.
Quote from: seafoid on March 25, 2024, 04:26:22 PMQuote from: johnnycool on March 25, 2024, 09:02:34 AMQuote from: seafoid on March 24, 2024, 05:34:38 PM19 wides. 10 frees sent wide.
Clare went up the gears when needed but in general the standard of hurling was poor over the weekend and whilst it may not have looked like it the Down lads say there was quite a lot of sand on the pitch in Portlaoise which probably contributed to the bunching, inability to rise the ball first time etc etc which ensured the game didn't really have any pace to it.
Tipp will be concerned, unsure of the spine of their team, does Maher come out to 6, who goes back in to 3, centre forward is probably where they should be playing Bonnar Maher IMO but they to find a balance in there and lads who can get the most out of Forde and Morris who need the ball in early and in space to cause defences problems.
Clare content that they've a panel now going into championship but Kelly and O'Donnell need game time and surely the final is the place to get them some. Even Ryan Taylor and David McInerney haven't featured to date and are allegedly back to full fitness.
One concern for Clare is that they don't think John Conlan has 70 minutes in him and a stand in centre back isn't Seadna Morey in all fairness. Conlan has played some hurling in the last year with club and county and he isn't getting any younger but he is their talisman and there's more to replacing him than just for his hurling!
David Fitzgerald is a beast of a hurler, size, speed and skill, Clare need him in the game a lot more, but what a weapon.
Championship is 25% faster than league. Touch and accuracy are far better. A loss like that may be better for Tipp in the long run if they are honest and want to learn from it.
Clare are probably better overall.
The provincial harness is unfair on Munster because there are 5 decent teams and in Leinster there aren't.
Yet no one in Munster will ever question the fairness of the current format!
Quote from: johnnycool on March 25, 2024, 04:43:34 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 25, 2024, 04:26:22 PMQuote from: johnnycool on March 25, 2024, 09:02:34 AMQuote from: seafoid on March 24, 2024, 05:34:38 PM19 wides. 10 frees sent wide.
Clare went up the gears when needed but in general the standard of hurling was poor over the weekend and whilst it may not have looked like it the Down lads say there was quite a lot of sand on the pitch in Portlaoise which probably contributed to the bunching, inability to rise the ball first time etc etc which ensured the game didn't really have any pace to it.
Tipp will be concerned, unsure of the spine of their team, does Maher come out to 6, who goes back in to 3, centre forward is probably where they should be playing Bonnar Maher IMO but they to find a balance in there and lads who can get the most out of Forde and Morris who need the ball in early and in space to cause defences problems.
Clare content that they've a panel now going into championship but Kelly and O'Donnell need game time and surely the final is the place to get them some. Even Ryan Taylor and David McInerney haven't featured to date and are allegedly back to full fitness.
One concern for Clare is that they don't think John Conlan has 70 minutes in him and a stand in centre back isn't Seadna Morey in all fairness. Conlan has played some hurling in the last year with club and county and he isn't getting any younger but he is their talisman and there's more to replacing him than just for his hurling!
David Fitzgerald is a beast of a hurler, size, speed and skill, Clare need him in the game a lot more, but what a weapon.
Championship is 25% faster than league. Touch and accuracy are far better. A loss like that may be better for Tipp in the long run if they are honest and want to learn from it.
Clare are probably better overall.
The provincial harness is unfair on Munster because there are 5 decent teams and in Leinster there aren't.
Yet no one in Munster will ever question the fairness of the current format!
Whenever the first congress is where they review the new system there will probably be timber.
Cheddar, Colm O'rourke, Jim McGuinness and Colm Bonnar have all spoken with authority about the flaws of the system, , focusing on injuries, the lack of downtime and the fitness levels required.
Quote from: seafoid on March 27, 2024, 07:49:16 PMQuote from: johnnycool on March 25, 2024, 04:43:34 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 25, 2024, 04:26:22 PMQuote from: johnnycool on March 25, 2024, 09:02:34 AMQuote from: seafoid on March 24, 2024, 05:34:38 PM19 wides. 10 frees sent wide.
Clare went up the gears when needed but in general the standard of hurling was poor over the weekend and whilst it may not have looked like it the Down lads say there was quite a lot of sand on the pitch in Portlaoise which probably contributed to the bunching, inability to rise the ball first time etc etc which ensured the game didn't really have any pace to it.
Tipp will be concerned, unsure of the spine of their team, does Maher come out to 6, who goes back in to 3, centre forward is probably where they should be playing Bonnar Maher IMO but they to find a balance in there and lads who can get the most out of Forde and Morris who need the ball in early and in space to cause defences problems.
Clare content that they've a panel now going into championship but Kelly and O'Donnell need game time and surely the final is the place to get them some. Even Ryan Taylor and David McInerney haven't featured to date and are allegedly back to full fitness.
One concern for Clare is that they don't think John Conlan has 70 minutes in him and a stand in centre back isn't Seadna Morey in all fairness. Conlan has played some hurling in the last year with club and county and he isn't getting any younger but he is their talisman and there's more to replacing him than just for his hurling!
David Fitzgerald is a beast of a hurler, size, speed and skill, Clare need him in the game a lot more, but what a weapon.
Championship is 25% faster than league. Touch and accuracy are far better. A loss like that may be better for Tipp in the long run if they are honest and want to learn from it.
Clare are probably better overall.
The provincial harness is unfair on Munster because there are 5 decent teams and in Leinster there aren't.
Yet no one in Munster will ever question the fairness of the current format!
Whenever the first congress is where they review the new system there will probably be timber.
Cheddar, Colm O'rourke, Jim McGuinness and Colm Bonnar have all spoken with authority about the flaws of the system, , focusing on injuries, the lack of downtime and the fitness levels required.
Here's a novel idea:
Stop fleecing lads at trainings. Keep them fresh.
#lessismore
Quote from: marty34 on March 27, 2024, 07:56:57 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 27, 2024, 07:49:16 PMQuote from: johnnycool on March 25, 2024, 04:43:34 PMQuote from: seafoid on March 25, 2024, 04:26:22 PMQuote from: johnnycool on March 25, 2024, 09:02:34 AMQuote from: seafoid on March 24, 2024, 05:34:38 PM19 wides. 10 frees sent wide.
Clare went up the gears when needed but in general the standard of hurling was poor over the weekend and whilst it may not have looked like it the Down lads say there was quite a lot of sand on the pitch in Portlaoise which probably contributed to the bunching, inability to rise the ball first time etc etc which ensured the game didn't really have any pace to it.
Tipp will be concerned, unsure of the spine of their team, does Maher come out to 6, who goes back in to 3, centre forward is probably where they should be playing Bonnar Maher IMO but they to find a balance in there and lads who can get the most out of Forde and Morris who need the ball in early and in space to cause defences problems.
Clare content that they've a panel now going into championship but Kelly and O'Donnell need game time and surely the final is the place to get them some. Even Ryan Taylor and David McInerney haven't featured to date and are allegedly back to full fitness.
One concern for Clare is that they don't think John Conlan has 70 minutes in him and a stand in centre back isn't Seadna Morey in all fairness. Conlan has played some hurling in the last year with club and county and he isn't getting any younger but he is their talisman and there's more to replacing him than just for his hurling!
David Fitzgerald is a beast of a hurler, size, speed and skill, Clare need him in the game a lot more, but what a weapon.
Championship is 25% faster than league. Touch and accuracy are far better. A loss like that may be better for Tipp in the long run if they are honest and want to learn from it.
Clare are probably better overall.
The provincial harness is unfair on Munster because there are 5 decent teams and in Leinster there aren't.
Yet no one in Munster will ever question the fairness of the current format!
Whenever the first congress is where they review the new system there will probably be timber.
Cheddar, Colm O'rourke, Jim McGuinness and Colm Bonnar have all spoken with authority about the flaws of the system, , focusing on injuries, the lack of downtime and the fitness levels required.
Here's a novel idea:
Stop fleecing lads at trainings. Keep them fresh.
#lessismore
Correct!
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2024/0325/1439885-concern-over-tipperarys-free-for-all-approach/
McManus says that there are many puzzles for Cahill to solve if Tipp are to emerge from Munster, and the early season signs aren't overly positive.
He watched the Premier men coast past his native Antrim in the previous round of the league, but wasn't overly impressed by the victors, even allowing for the testing conditions at Corrigan Park on the day.
"They didn't shoot the lights out and they had plenty of their first team out on show," he said.
"I can't see where the goals are going to come from if Jake Morris isn't going to get them.
"I would worry for Tipperary. There is going to be an absolute dogfight in Munster for that third spot, between Waterford, Cork and Tipp as Clare and Limerick do look stronger than everybody else.
Paddy Deegan will have No6 on his back this Sunday, whether he stays there is another matter but expect Blanchfield to pick up Fitzgerald, probably the best suited KK defender for that particular job.
KK forwards probably as strong as it gets with maybe the exception of Drennan who'll get on at some point.
TJ will man the square and they'll drop ball in on him, no big secret in their gameplan there, but it will be interesting who Clare match up on him, Big Cleary is the obvious choice if TJ stays deep, if he wonders out a bit, and Cody goes in then Clare might need to reconsider, but I don't expect John Conlan to be too far away either way.
No sign of Tony Kelly, Clare either now feel confident they can win this game without him or the Munster Championship is more important to them, maybe they can do both.
My head says Clare but only a fool would write off Kilkenny to pip them.
A novel final (strangely) but looking forward to it. Both teams will take confidence away with a win, plus the extra game with intensity for their championships
Limerick will take stock and fine tune, still the team with 4 or 5 points better than the rest, will take a smash and grab effort (Wexford v Kilkenny comes to mind) to beat them but nothing impossible
Quote from: johnnycool on April 05, 2024, 11:40:38 AMPaddy Deegan will have No6 on his back this Sunday, whether he stays there is another matter but expect Blanchfield to pick up Fitzgerald, probably the best suited KK defender for that particular job.
KK forwards probably as strong as it gets with maybe the exception of Drennan who'll get on at some point.
TJ will man the square and they'll drop ball in on him, no big secret in their gameplan there, but it will be interesting who Clare match up on him, Big Cleary is the obvious choice if TJ stays deep, if he wonders out a bit, and Cody goes in then Clare might need to reconsider, but I don't expect John Conlan to be too far away either way.
No sign of Tony Kelly, Clare either now feel confident they can win this game without him or the Munster Championship is more important to them, maybe they can do both.
My head says Clare but only a fool would write off Kilkenny to pip them.
Kilkenny are not what they were. Clare should have enough to beat them.
Quote from: seafoid on April 05, 2024, 12:39:12 PMQuote from: johnnycool on April 05, 2024, 11:40:38 AMPaddy Deegan will have No6 on his back this Sunday, whether he stays there is another matter but expect Blanchfield to pick up Fitzgerald, probably the best suited KK defender for that particular job.
KK forwards probably as strong as it gets with maybe the exception of Drennan who'll get on at some point.
TJ will man the square and they'll drop ball in on him, no big secret in their gameplan there, but it will be interesting who Clare match up on him, Big Cleary is the obvious choice if TJ stays deep, if he wonders out a bit, and Cody goes in then Clare might need to reconsider, but I don't expect John Conlan to be too far away either way.
No sign of Tony Kelly, Clare either now feel confident they can win this game without him or the Munster Championship is more important to them, maybe they can do both.
My head says Clare but only a fool would write off Kilkenny to pip them.
Kilkenny are not what they were. Clare should have enough to beat them.
They certainly aren't but they know how to stay in the fight right to the end and Clare won't get it easy.
Did you watch the last 2 AI semi finals SF...
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 05, 2024, 12:56:43 PMDid you watch the last 2 AI semi finals SF...
I did
But Clare are on the way up and the odds are level so I think they are worth a win
https://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/hurling/national-hurling-league-division-1/winner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p5Lewbwp5c
Quote from: johnnycool on April 05, 2024, 12:55:06 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 05, 2024, 12:39:12 PMQuote from: johnnycool on April 05, 2024, 11:40:38 AMPaddy Deegan will have No6 on his back this Sunday, whether he stays there is another matter but expect Blanchfield to pick up Fitzgerald, probably the best suited KK defender for that particular job.
KK forwards probably as strong as it gets with maybe the exception of Drennan who'll get on at some point.
TJ will man the square and they'll drop ball in on him, no big secret in their gameplan there, but it will be interesting who Clare match up on him, Big Cleary is the obvious choice if TJ stays deep, if he wonders out a bit, and Cody goes in then Clare might need to reconsider, but I don't expect John Conlan to be too far away either way.
No sign of Tony Kelly, Clare either now feel confident they can win this game without him or the Munster Championship is more important to them, maybe they can do both.
My head says Clare but only a fool would write off Kilkenny to pip them.
Kilkenny are not what they were. Clare should have enough to beat them.
They certainly aren't but they know how to stay in the fight right to the end and Clare won't get it easy.
It should be a good match all right.
Quote from: seafoid on April 05, 2024, 01:26:39 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on April 05, 2024, 12:56:43 PMDid you watch the last 2 AI semi finals SF...
I did
But Clare are on the way up and the odds are level so I think they are worth a win
https://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/hurling/national-hurling-league-division-1/winner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p5Lewbwp5c
what has got better about them and worse about kk though?
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 05, 2024, 02:54:20 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 05, 2024, 01:26:39 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on April 05, 2024, 12:56:43 PMDid you watch the last 2 AI semi finals SF...
I did
But Clare are on the way up and the odds are level so I think they are worth a win
https://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/hurling/national-hurling-league-division-1/winner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p5Lewbwp5c
what has got better about them and worse about kk though?
Winning without Kelly I suppose is one thing. but they have some of that Lohan never say die steel about them
I'm not so sure about the steel thing - the biggest 2 tests they have had this last 2 years were the semi against KK and they failed.
Don't get me wrong I hope they win but KK are finished and Clare are on the up is not an opinion I would in any way agree with... Yes Clare faced up to Limerick better than KK did but ultimately KK have beat Clare when it counted.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 05, 2024, 03:20:50 PMI'm not so sure about the steel thing - the biggest 2 tests they have had this last 2 years were the semi against KK and they failed.
Don't get me wrong I hope they win but KK are finished and Clare are on the up is not an opinion I would in any way agree with... Yes Clare faced up to Limerick better than KK did but ultimately KK have beat Clare when it counted.
Clare lad on the Clare Hurlers forum responding to a comment in relation to Eddie Brennans prediction for Sunday.
History and success
every time they have played clare when it counted in the last 20 years they have won.
Not sure why should believe any different now
we have a better set of players than Kilkenny yet they won the last two all ireland semis.
why would this final be any different in their opinion?
Its up to us to change the narrative, until we do brennan is right
Yeah that is it in a nutshell. Absolutely no way should Clare have lost those last two but KK are extremely dogged and while they're not like a team from the Cody era they still have some superb hurlers in there too.
Ultimately they have been the second best team in the country this past 2 years and up to Clare to break that.
20 years a long time.
Quote from: imtommygunn on April 05, 2024, 02:54:20 PMQuote from: seafoid on April 05, 2024, 01:26:39 PMQuote from: imtommygunn on April 05, 2024, 12:56:43 PMDid you watch the last 2 AI semi finals SF...
I did
But Clare are on the way up and the odds are level so I think they are worth a win
https://www.oddschecker.com/gaelic-games/hurling/national-hurling-league-division-1/winner
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p5Lewbwp5c
what has got better about them and worse about kk though?
Time. KK are a year older. They aren't getting younger.
Clare have had time to think about where they want to go . If they want to kick on they have the opportunity to show it. Tá siad ag teacht.
Kilkenny just ended a spell of l0 minutes without scoring Clare are more efficient. If KK lose it will be the 4th national final lost by Huw Lawlor in 12 months.
https://youtu.be/0ver0lMNMgw
Do you need to lose a limb to get a free here...
Clare deserved it.
Kk looked poor enough but still managed to stay in it to the end. Clare have a good spread of forwards appearing there even without Kelly.
Clare deserved it in the end I think. But the ref nearly handed the result to Kilkenny with the wrong decision to give Kilkenny a penalty and Rodgers a black card. Justice was done when Cody missed the penalty.
Quote from: Capt Pat on April 06, 2024, 09:05:38 PMClare deserved it in the end I think. But the ref nearly handed the result to Kilkenny with the wrong decision to give Kilkenny a penalty and Rodgers a black card. Justice was done when Cody missed the penalty.
You can give a penalty inside the 21 I thought
I think this is the 4th national final in a row that KK have lost.
Normally a team in such a situation would turn to the injection of youth but KK don't have a conveyor belt of talent available.
Quote from: Kidder81 on April 06, 2024, 09:09:43 PMQuote from: Capt Pat on April 06, 2024, 09:05:38 PMClare deserved it in the end I think. But the ref nearly handed the result to Kilkenny with the wrong decision to give Kilkenny a penalty and Rodgers a black card. Justice was done when Cody missed the penalty.
You can give a penalty inside the 21 I thought
The ball was passed away and fumbled by the receiving kilkenny player when there was accidental contact between Rodgers and the passing Kilkenny player. Not a penalty or a black card imho.
The penalty and black card is for cynical fouls only denying goal scoring chances inside the 20 yard line.
It would have been some injustice if Clare had lost the game coming down the strait. Especially as the ref looked to be giving the Cats plenty of assistance near the end.
Cody hitting the penalty down into the mud patch was a schoolboy error. TJ Reid would have put it high towards the top corner.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 07, 2024, 09:04:30 AMIt would have been some injustice if Clare had lost the game coming down the strait. Especially as the ref looked to be giving the Cats plenty of assistance near the end.
Cody hitting the penalty down into the mud patch was a schoolboy error. TJ Reid would have put it high towards the top corner.
In fairness he let Fitzgerald take close to 10 steps for his goal, you don't usually see a player being allowed to pause, cut inside (while still not taking a tap) and then continue
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on April 07, 2024, 09:04:30 AMIt would have been some injustice if Clare had lost the game coming down the strait. Especially as the ref looked to be giving the Cats plenty of assistance near the end.
Cody hitting the penalty down into the mud patch was a schoolboy error. TJ Reid would have put it high towards the top corner.
That's the Kilkenny problem in a nutshell. It takes years to develop a TJ Reid or a Johnny Sexton.
Quote from: Saffrongael on April 07, 2024, 11:26:23 AMQuote from: Bord na Mona man on April 07, 2024, 09:04:30 AMIt would have been some injustice if Clare had lost the game coming down the strait. Especially as the ref looked to be giving the Cats plenty of assistance near the end.
Cody hitting the penalty down into the mud patch was a schoolboy error. TJ Reid would have put it high towards the top corner.
In fairness he let Fitzgerald take close to 10 steps for his goal, you don't usually see a player being allowed to pause, cut inside (while still not taking a tap) and then continue
He's a serious man for taking 10 steps.
In fairness, easily the best player in the National League this year. Clare will be hoping he keeps this run of form up. With David Mc Enerney, Shanagher and O'Donnell off the bench last night Clare are working on developing their panel. Just need them injury free as Munster will be tough.
Lohan needed the win last night to justify his work. Well deserved. Were the better team throughout. Clare were hungry and aggressive and in Mc Carthy and Duggan, they have good outlets up top.
Malone works hard in mid-field, Cleary is an old style full-back with Hogan developing into a super man marker/cornerback. With TK to come back, they'll by boosted for Munster.
KK were disappointing although they still have that never say die spirit. They seemed to be off the boil a bit e.g. Blanchfield missing the pick twice for Clare's goal. Simple stuff.
Cody's penalty was poorly struck in the marsh. Who know what would have happened if it went in but they didn't deserve it.
TJ was a big miss as on out bll at full-forward although Mossy Keoghan showed really well when introduced - 3 points I think.
Quote from: marty34 on April 07, 2024, 12:25:20 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on April 07, 2024, 11:26:23 AMQuote from: Bord na Mona man on April 07, 2024, 09:04:30 AMIt would have been some injustice if Clare had lost the game coming down the strait. Especially as the ref looked to be giving the Cats plenty of assistance near the end.
Cody hitting the penalty down into the mud patch was a schoolboy error. TJ Reid would have put it high towards the top corner.
In fairness he let Fitzgerald take close to 10 steps for his goal, you don't usually see a player being allowed to pause, cut inside (while still not taking a tap) and then continue
He's a serious man for taking 10 steps.
In fairness, easily the best player in the National League this year. Clare will be hoping he keeps this run of form up. With David Mc Enerney, Shanagher and O'Donnell off the bench last night Clare are working on developing their panel. Just need them injury free as Munster will be tough.
Lohan needed the win last night to justify his work. Well deserved. Were the better team throughout. Clare were hungry and aggressive and in Mc Carthy and Duggan, they have good outlets up top.
Malone works hard in mid-field, Cleary is an old style full-back with Hogan developing into a super man marker/cornerback. With TK to come back, they'll by boosted for Munster.
KK were disappointing although they still have that never say die spirit. They seemed to be off the boil a bit e.g. Blanchfield missing the pick twice for Clare's goal. Simple stuff.
Cody's penalty was poorly struck in the marsh. Who know what would have happened if it went in but they didn't deserve it.
TJ was a big miss as on out bll at full-forward although Mossy Keoghan showed really well when introduced - 3 points I think.
KK were/ are poor I dont see anything improving them drastically as the championship gets going. TJ will slightly but think he is on the other side of it.
They seem to be producing the same type of player at the moment with nothing really standing out.
Quote from: NAG1 on April 08, 2024, 10:13:08 AMQuote from: marty34 on April 07, 2024, 12:25:20 PMQuote from: Saffrongael on April 07, 2024, 11:26:23 AMQuote from: Bord na Mona man on April 07, 2024, 09:04:30 AMIt would have been some injustice if Clare had lost the game coming down the strait. Especially as the ref looked to be giving the Cats plenty of assistance near the end.
Cody hitting the penalty down into the mud patch was a schoolboy error. TJ Reid would have put it high towards the top corner.
In fairness he let Fitzgerald take close to 10 steps for his goal, you don't usually see a player being allowed to pause, cut inside (while still not taking a tap) and then continue
He's a serious man for taking 10 steps.
In fairness, easily the best player in the National League this year. Clare will be hoping he keeps this run of form up. With David Mc Enerney, Shanagher and O'Donnell off the bench last night Clare are working on developing their panel. Just need them injury free as Munster will be tough.
Lohan needed the win last night to justify his work. Well deserved. Were the better team throughout. Clare were hungry and aggressive and in Mc Carthy and Duggan, they have good outlets up top.
Malone works hard in mid-field, Cleary is an old style full-back with Hogan developing into a super man marker/cornerback. With TK to come back, they'll by boosted for Munster.
KK were disappointing although they still have that never say die spirit. They seemed to be off the boil a bit e.g. Blanchfield missing the pick twice for Clare's goal. Simple stuff.
Cody's penalty was poorly struck in the marsh. Who know what would have happened if it went in but they didn't deserve it.
TJ was a big miss as on out bll at full-forward although Mossy Keoghan showed really well when introduced - 3 points I think.
KK were/ are poor I dont see anything improving them drastically as the championship gets going. TJ will slightly but think he is on the other side of it.
They seem to be producing the same type of player at the moment with nothing really standing out.
They used to be able to freak teams out just by turning up. They have savage workrate but they don't have the players any more.
Clare had more energy.
Clare outworked them for sure, but they also have better and a variety of different types of hurler from what I saw.
Hopefully this Clare team aren't left ruing the fact of running into one of the best teams ever to be produced at their peak.
Only got round to watching the game yesterday.
Clare were much the better team over the 70 minutes especially the period after half time when they went 7 points up and looked to be well in control, but Kilkenny kept in the battle, some softish frees helped but also they're just never beat right till the end and TBH apart from the non penalty miss they'd a few chances for goals that were spurned.
Mossy Keoghan one on one with Rory Hayes in injury time, Hayes marshalled him well but I'd have expected a bit more vigor from Keoghan and he simply just tapped it over the bar.
No way Eddie Brennan or most of the KK forwards from that era would have done that with the game still to be won.
Clare looked good, but their dominance needs to be reflected on the scoreboard and they failed to keep the effort up over the whole second half, that is a potential worry for them.
Much being made of young Adam Hogan "buying" frees on social media, from what I see he does duck down in the tackle, but the bottom line is that there's nowhere in the rule book saying you can throw your spare arm out and around a player who's trying to get passed you.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2024, 10:11:43 AMOnly got round to watching the game yesterday.
Clare were much the better team over the 70 minutes especially the period after half time when they went 7 points up and looked to be well in control, but Kilkenny kept in the battle, some softish frees helped but also they're just never beat right till the end and TBH apart from the non penalty miss they'd a few chances for goals that were spurned.
Mossy Keoghan one on one with Rory Hayes in injury time, Hayes marshalled him well but I'd have expected a bit more vigor from Keoghan and he simply just tapped it over the bar.
No way Eddie Brennan or most of the KK forwards from that era would have done that with the game still to be won.
Clare looked good, but their dominance needs to be reflected on the scoreboard and they failed to keep the effort up over the whole second half, that is a potential worry for them.
Much being made of young Adam Hogan "buying" frees on social media, from what I see he does duck down in the tackle, but the bottom line is that there's nowhere in the rule book saying you can throw your spare arm out and around a player who's trying to get passed you.
Don't know why he is being singled out, every single player is at the same malarky. It is actually getting hard to watch, players running into a tackle and throwing the arms up to try and buy a free.
I guess there has to be more discipline by the tackler not to leave a loose arm in, but the refs need to start copping on to it as well.
Quote from: NAG1 on April 10, 2024, 10:20:15 AMQuote from: johnnycool on April 10, 2024, 10:11:43 AMOnly got round to watching the game yesterday.
Clare were much the better team over the 70 minutes especially the period after half time when they went 7 points up and looked to be well in control, but Kilkenny kept in the battle, some softish frees helped but also they're just never beat right till the end and TBH apart from the non penalty miss they'd a few chances for goals that were spurned.
Mossy Keoghan one on one with Rory Hayes in injury time, Hayes marshalled him well but I'd have expected a bit more vigor from Keoghan and he simply just tapped it over the bar.
No way Eddie Brennan or most of the KK forwards from that era would have done that with the game still to be won.
Clare looked good, but their dominance needs to be reflected on the scoreboard and they failed to keep the effort up over the whole second half, that is a potential worry for them.
Much being made of young Adam Hogan "buying" frees on social media, from what I see he does duck down in the tackle, but the bottom line is that there's nowhere in the rule book saying you can throw your spare arm out and around a player who's trying to get passed you.
Don't know why he is being singled out, every single player is at the same malarky. It is actually getting hard to watch, players running into a tackle and throwing the arms up to try and buy a free.
I guess there has to be more discipline by the tackler not to leave a loose arm in, but the refs need to start copping on to it as well.
The loose arm is a lazy tackle which has been tolerated at this level for a decade and more.
Now the likes of Kinnerk and the other specialist coaches will have to come up with something else to counteract the dip in the tackle which means the arm/hurl is around a players neck or head.
It's a football tackle, you can only tackle the ball, certainly stand your ground but as Johnny says, its lazy and most ref's will assess whether or not the defender has used his arm illegally
"Hurling referees have been advised to be mindful of players ducking into tackles in an attempt to win frees. Examples of recent league games were provided to officials of decisions going in favour of those who were simulating the fouls.
Across both codes, referees have been given the following checklist to factor in when considering to send off a player for a head-high tackle: if a contact is made to opponent's head, if the opponent has no opportunity to protect himself, if contact/impact is excessive or causes injury, if the elbow/forearm/shoulder is part of the contact, if the player making contact jumps or has been two feet off the ground, if the player making contact had a realistic alternative by way of challenging opponent and to the direction and distance covered by the player who makes contact."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41375074.html
At least the powers that be have copped on to it. It's still hard for a ref to spot in real time.
Quote from: Dag Dog on April 16, 2024, 10:55:18 AM"Hurling referees have been advised to be mindful of players ducking into tackles in an attempt to win frees. Examples of recent league games were provided to officials of decisions going in favour of those who were simulating the fouls.
Across both codes, referees have been given the following checklist to factor in when considering to send off a player for a head-high tackle: if a contact is made to opponent's head, if the opponent has no opportunity to protect himself, if contact/impact is excessive or causes injury, if the elbow/forearm/shoulder is part of the contact, if the player making contact jumps or has been two feet off the ground, if the player making contact had a realistic alternative by way of challenging opponent and to the direction and distance covered by the player who makes contact."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41375074.html
It's going like rugby that players must have a 'duty of care' to other players in the tackle.
That's a good thing in my opinion. Anything hit around the head is dangerous.
Quote from: marty34 on April 16, 2024, 12:22:51 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on April 16, 2024, 10:55:18 AM"Hurling referees have been advised to be mindful of players ducking into tackles in an attempt to win frees. Examples of recent league games were provided to officials of decisions going in favour of those who were simulating the fouls.
Across both codes, referees have been given the following checklist to factor in when considering to send off a player for a head-high tackle: if a contact is made to opponent's head, if the opponent has no opportunity to protect himself, if contact/impact is excessive or causes injury, if the elbow/forearm/shoulder is part of the contact, if the player making contact jumps or has been two feet off the ground, if the player making contact had a realistic alternative by way of challenging opponent and to the direction and distance covered by the player who makes contact."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41375074.html
It's going like rugby that players must have a 'duty of care' to other players in the tackle.
That's a good thing in my opinion. Anything hit around the head is dangerous.
You'll be looking for mitigating circumstances etc etc as well now ;D
Quote from: johnnycool on April 16, 2024, 02:30:03 PMQuote from: marty34 on April 16, 2024, 12:22:51 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on April 16, 2024, 10:55:18 AM"Hurling referees have been advised to be mindful of players ducking into tackles in an attempt to win frees. Examples of recent league games were provided to officials of decisions going in favour of those who were simulating the fouls.
Across both codes, referees have been given the following checklist to factor in when considering to send off a player for a head-high tackle: if a contact is made to opponent's head, if the opponent has no opportunity to protect himself, if contact/impact is excessive or causes injury, if the elbow/forearm/shoulder is part of the contact, if the player making contact jumps or has been two feet off the ground, if the player making contact had a realistic alternative by way of challenging opponent and to the direction and distance covered by the player who makes contact."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41375074.html
It's going like rugby that players must have a 'duty of care' to other players in the tackle.
That's a good thing in my opinion. Anything hit around the head is dangerous.
You'll be looking for mitigating circumstances etc etc as well now ;D
Maybe a TMO JC? :)
Quote from: johnnycool on April 16, 2024, 02:30:03 PMQuote from: marty34 on April 16, 2024, 12:22:51 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on April 16, 2024, 10:55:18 AM"Hurling referees have been advised to be mindful of players ducking into tackles in an attempt to win frees. Examples of recent league games were provided to officials of decisions going in favour of those who were simulating the fouls.
Across both codes, referees have been given the following checklist to factor in when considering to send off a player for a head-high tackle: if a contact is made to opponent's head, if the opponent has no opportunity to protect himself, if contact/impact is excessive or causes injury, if the elbow/forearm/shoulder is part of the contact, if the player making contact jumps or has been two feet off the ground, if the player making contact had a realistic alternative by way of challenging opponent and to the direction and distance covered by the player who makes contact."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41375074.html
It's going like rugby that players must have a 'duty of care' to other players in the tackle.
That's a good thing in my opinion. Anything hit around the head is dangerous.
You'll be looking for mitigating circumstances etc etc as well now ;D
Been saying this for a while now, players have a duty of care, granted and currently there are pitches out there that do not lend themselves to preventing lads sliding in or slipping underfoot that may cause 'accidental' albeit fouls still, but applying common sense ;) should help
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2024, 09:07:53 AMQuote from: johnnycool on April 16, 2024, 02:30:03 PMQuote from: marty34 on April 16, 2024, 12:22:51 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on April 16, 2024, 10:55:18 AM"Hurling referees have been advised to be mindful of players ducking into tackles in an attempt to win frees. Examples of recent league games were provided to officials of decisions going in favour of those who were simulating the fouls.
Across both codes, referees have been given the following checklist to factor in when considering to send off a player for a head-high tackle: if a contact is made to opponent's head, if the opponent has no opportunity to protect himself, if contact/impact is excessive or causes injury, if the elbow/forearm/shoulder is part of the contact, if the player making contact jumps or has been two feet off the ground, if the player making contact had a realistic alternative by way of challenging opponent and to the direction and distance covered by the player who makes contact."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41375074.html
It's going like rugby that players must have a 'duty of care' to other players in the tackle.
That's a good thing in my opinion. Anything hit around the head is dangerous.
You'll be looking for mitigating circumstances etc etc as well now ;D
Been saying this for a while now, players have a duty of care, granted and currently there are pitches out there that do not lend themselves to preventing lads sliding in or slipping underfoot that may cause 'accidental' albeit fouls still, but applying common sense ;) should help
From your experience if someone has the ball and is faced with a defender standing with their arms and hurl out, player in possession of the ball dips down and the arm/hurl of the defender is now around their neck and head, do you give them the foul or do you play on?
Quote from: johnnycool on April 17, 2024, 10:53:52 AMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 17, 2024, 09:07:53 AMQuote from: johnnycool on April 16, 2024, 02:30:03 PMQuote from: marty34 on April 16, 2024, 12:22:51 PMQuote from: Dag Dog on April 16, 2024, 10:55:18 AM"Hurling referees have been advised to be mindful of players ducking into tackles in an attempt to win frees. Examples of recent league games were provided to officials of decisions going in favour of those who were simulating the fouls.
Across both codes, referees have been given the following checklist to factor in when considering to send off a player for a head-high tackle: if a contact is made to opponent's head, if the opponent has no opportunity to protect himself, if contact/impact is excessive or causes injury, if the elbow/forearm/shoulder is part of the contact, if the player making contact jumps or has been two feet off the ground, if the player making contact had a realistic alternative by way of challenging opponent and to the direction and distance covered by the player who makes contact."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-41375074.html
It's going like rugby that players must have a 'duty of care' to other players in the tackle.
That's a good thing in my opinion. Anything hit around the head is dangerous.
You'll be looking for mitigating circumstances etc etc as well now ;D
Been saying this for a while now, players have a duty of care, granted and currently there are pitches out there that do not lend themselves to preventing lads sliding in or slipping underfoot that may cause 'accidental' albeit fouls still, but applying common sense ;) should help
From your experience if someone has the ball and is faced with a defender standing with their arms and hurl out, player in possession of the ball dips down and the arm/hurl of the defender is now around their neck and head, do you give them the foul or do you play on?
It really depends on how I feel that particular incident happens, while I'm not or should be judgmental of certain players but having been around the block as a player and ref for so many years I think I'm a good judge on intent, accident, looking for a free or basically someone being stronger and preventing someone from getting by .
Thats my call, only one whistle and I've got use my experience on it. Fine lines though
Shane O'Donnell and Adam Hogan great at 'winning' frees this way. Raising their hands high in the tackle and the ref. gives them a free.
Quote from: marty34 on April 17, 2024, 12:28:48 PMShane O'Donnell and Adam Hogan great at 'winning' frees this way. Raising their hands high in the tackle and the ref. gives them a free.
Some players, two in particular in Antrim play in a forceful forward combative way that try's to draw frees, they ain't charging but I can see how a ref may feel player is being infringed, but that's their style. Play on for me
Quote from: marty34 on April 17, 2024, 12:28:48 PMShane O'Donnell and Adam Hogan great at 'winning' frees this way. Raising their hands high in the tackle and the ref. gives them a free.
And Eoin Cody, and Conor Whelan and half the Cork team and Cathal Barrett and I could go on...
If the defender isn't tackling lawfully which is the first issue being ignored by all and sundry then of course players are going to engineer fouls out if it.
Fix the first problem and then other problems like overcarrying, head high tackling, dipping in the tackle go away.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 18, 2024, 09:25:49 AMQuote from: marty34 on April 17, 2024, 12:28:48 PMShane O'Donnell and Adam Hogan great at 'winning' frees this way. Raising their hands high in the tackle and the ref. gives them a free.
And Eoin Cody, and Conor Whelan and half the Cork team and Cathal Barrett and I could go on...
If the defender isn't tackling lawfully which is the first issue being ignored by all and sundry then of course players are going to engineer fouls out if it.
Fix the first problem and then other problems like overcarrying, head high tackling, dipping in the tackle go away.
Did a game last night, pitch conditions meant that lads would be losing their balance and slipping or sliding in and out of tackles, granted high summer (whenever that is) pitches firm up and that gives me less hassle.
Lads were looking frees for sliding in to collect the ball saying they were pushed, they initiated the slide first, play on, due to the heavy conditions players were being 'held' up more, again, no obvious free like arms being pulled shirts being pulled and so on, if he doesn't release the ball he'll over carry it.
In these incidents the cry is there all over him! There could be 15 players all over him, if there is no actual free being committed then play on.
As you say Johnny, get the first free, it depends on your interpretation of that first free lol
As frustrating as it is, sometimes there is not that obvious free so playing on is the best option
Not all tackles are frees, clear as mud
Did my first game with the new rule that if a physio comes on to the pitch and player removes his helmet he has to leave the pitch and can only come on in a break of play.. They had no idea!!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2024, 01:56:50 PMQuote from: johnnycool on April 18, 2024, 09:25:49 AMQuote from: marty34 on April 17, 2024, 12:28:48 PMShane O'Donnell and Adam Hogan great at 'winning' frees this way. Raising their hands high in the tackle and the ref. gives them a free.
And Eoin Cody, and Conor Whelan and half the Cork team and Cathal Barrett and I could go on...
If the defender isn't tackling lawfully which is the first issue being ignored by all and sundry then of course players are going to engineer fouls out if it.
Fix the first problem and then other problems like overcarrying, head high tackling, dipping in the tackle go away.
Did a game last night, pitch conditions meant that lads would be losing their balance and slipping or sliding in and out of tackles, granted high summer (whenever that is) pitches firm up and that gives me less hassle.
Lads were looking frees for sliding in to collect the ball saying they were pushed, they initiated the slide first, play on, due to the heavy conditions players were being 'held' up more, again, no obvious free like arms being pulled shirts being pulled and so on, if he doesn't release the ball he'll over carry it.
In these incidents the cry is there all over him! There could be 15 players all over him, if there is no actual free being committed then play on.
As you say Johnny, get the first free, it depends on your interpretation of that first free lol
As frustrating as it is, sometimes there is not that obvious free so playing on is the best option
Not all tackles are frees, clear as mud
Did my first game with the new rule that if a physio comes on to the pitch and player removes his helmet he has to leave the pitch and can only come on in a break of play.. They had no idea!!
The following is the guidance provided, injured players. We should communicated the guidance to medical and management teams if they enquire about implementation.
1. If a Doctor or \physio comes on to the field of play to treat or access an injured player we will not be instructing them to leave the field of play.
2. We will allow treatment on the field of play - however if this necessitates a stoppage in play, this will,
(a) be added on to the allotted time and
(b) any player treated on the field of play will need to come off and return to the field of play at the centre point of the sideline, after a break in play.
3. Just to inform you also after the meeting of Central Council the goalkeepers will be treated the same as every other player. In other words he also has to leave the field and come back on at the centre point of the sideline.
4. This also applies to removal of the helmet in hurling.It's not just the removal of the helmet though, it's if you've to stop the play to allow a physio on at all.
"It's not just the removal of the helmet though, it's if you've to stop the play to allow a physio on at all."
If I have to stop play.
Though if a physio comes on and can administer a spray while play continues I'm happy with that, should I have to blow the whistle and the player requires assistance they have to go off, now seeing as it was my first real go at it, I waved the player on rather than waiting for a break, he was genuinely hurt from a tackle from the other team, its a bit unfair surely to disadvantage them twice?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2024, 04:45:00 PM"It's not just the removal of the helmet though, it's if you've to stop the play to allow a physio on at all."
If I have to stop play.
Though if a physio comes on and can administer a spray while play continues I'm happy with that, should I have to blow the whistle and the player requires assistance they have to go off, now seeing as it was my first real go at it, I waved the player on rather than waiting for a break, he was genuinely hurt from a tackle from the other team, its a bit unfair surely to disadvantage them twice?
But is that not wrong, going by them new rules?
Quote from: marty34 on April 18, 2024, 04:59:16 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2024, 04:45:00 PM"It's not just the removal of the helmet though, it's if you've to stop the play to allow a physio on at all."
If I have to stop play.
Though if a physio comes on and can administer a spray while play continues I'm happy with that, should I have to blow the whistle and the player requires assistance they have to go off, now seeing as it was my first real go at it, I waved the player on rather than waiting for a break, he was genuinely hurt from a tackle from the other team, its a bit unfair surely to disadvantage them twice?
But is that not wrong, going by them new rules?
Completely
Bitta common sense needs to be applied and while I'm not against following it to the letter, sometimes it's actually counterproductive and not serving the reason why it's introduced
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2024, 06:27:14 PMQuote from: marty34 on April 18, 2024, 04:59:16 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2024, 04:45:00 PM"It's not just the removal of the helmet though, it's if you've to stop the play to allow a physio on at all."
If I have to stop play.
Though if a physio comes on and can administer a spray while play continues I'm happy with that, should I have to blow the whistle and the player requires assistance they have to go off, now seeing as it was my first real go at it, I waved the player on rather than waiting for a break, he was genuinely hurt from a tackle from the other team, its a bit unfair surely to disadvantage them twice?
But is that not wrong, going by them new rules?
Completely
Bitta common sense needs to be applied and while I'm not against following it to the letter, sometimes it's actually counterproductive and not serving the reason why it's introduced
No, I totally agree with you.
It'll be interesting to see what happens in big games during the summer.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2024, 06:27:14 PMQuote from: marty34 on April 18, 2024, 04:59:16 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2024, 04:45:00 PM"It's not just the removal of the helmet though, it's if you've to stop the play to allow a physio on at all."
If I have to stop play.
Though if a physio comes on and can administer a spray while play continues I'm happy with that, should I have to blow the whistle and the player requires assistance they have to go off, now seeing as it was my first real go at it, I waved the player on rather than waiting for a break, he was genuinely hurt from a tackle from the other team, its a bit unfair surely to disadvantage them twice?
But is that not wrong, going by them new rules?
Completely
Bitta common sense needs to be applied and while I'm not against following it to the letter, sometimes it's actually counterproductive and not serving the reason why it's introduced
The reason for the new rules is to prevent cynical playacting, faking injuries to slow the game down like nicky quaid getting something in his eye last year.
If its genuine then it's harsh but if they're acting the bollox then I'd make them wait for the next break in play.
Quote from: johnnycool on April 18, 2024, 10:18:41 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2024, 06:27:14 PMQuote from: marty34 on April 18, 2024, 04:59:16 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2024, 04:45:00 PM"It's not just the removal of the helmet though, it's if you've to stop the play to allow a physio on at all."
If I have to stop play.
Though if a physio comes on and can administer a spray while play continues I'm happy with that, should I have to blow the whistle and the player requires assistance they have to go off, now seeing as it was my first real go at it, I waved the player on rather than waiting for a break, he was genuinely hurt from a tackle from the other team, its a bit unfair surely to disadvantage them twice?
But is that not wrong, going by them new rules?
Completely
Bitta common sense needs to be applied and while I'm not against following it to the letter, sometimes it's actually counterproductive and not serving the reason why it's introduced
The reason for the new rules is to prevent cynical playacting, faking injuries to slow the game down like nicky quaid getting something in his eye last year.
If its genuine then it's harsh but if they're acting the bollox then I'd make them wait for the next break in play.
This rule was apparently amended during the week, to include the goalkeeper! Doesn't make much sense.
Quote from: Delgany 2nds on April 18, 2024, 10:29:23 PMQuote from: johnnycool on April 18, 2024, 10:18:41 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2024, 06:27:14 PMQuote from: marty34 on April 18, 2024, 04:59:16 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2024, 04:45:00 PM"It's not just the removal of the helmet though, it's if you've to stop the play to allow a physio on at all."
If I have to stop play.
Though if a physio comes on and can administer a spray while play continues I'm happy with that, should I have to blow the whistle and the player requires assistance they have to go off, now seeing as it was my first real go at it, I waved the player on rather than waiting for a break, he was genuinely hurt from a tackle from the other team, its a bit unfair surely to disadvantage them twice?
But is that not wrong, going by them new rules?
Completely
Bitta common sense needs to be applied and while I'm not against following it to the letter, sometimes it's actually counterproductive and not serving the reason why it's introduced
The reason for the new rules is to prevent cynical playacting, faking injuries to slow the game down like nicky quaid getting something in his eye last year.
If its genuine then it's harsh but if they're acting the bollox then I'd make them wait for the next break in play.
This rule was apparently amended during the week, to include the goalkeeper! Doesn't make much sense.
I said that a few weeks ago that to circumvent all this is for the keeper to go down. The rule didn't mention keepers.
I'd make it another player must stand i goals and team down to 14 players until next break in play.
Quote from: marty34 on April 18, 2024, 11:06:24 PMQuote from: Delgany 2nds on April 18, 2024, 10:29:23 PMQuote from: johnnycool on April 18, 2024, 10:18:41 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2024, 06:27:14 PMQuote from: marty34 on April 18, 2024, 04:59:16 PMQuote from: Milltown Row2 on April 18, 2024, 04:45:00 PM"It's not just the removal of the helmet though, it's if you've to stop the play to allow a physio on at all."
If I have to stop play.
Though if a physio comes on and can administer a spray while play continues I'm happy with that, should I have to blow the whistle and the player requires assistance they have to go off, now seeing as it was my first real go at it, I waved the player on rather than waiting for a break, he was genuinely hurt from a tackle from the other team, its a bit unfair surely to disadvantage them twice?
But is that not wrong, going by them new rules?
Completely
Bitta common sense needs to be applied and while I'm not against following it to the letter, sometimes it's actually counterproductive and not serving the reason why it's introduced
The reason for the new rules is to prevent cynical playacting, faking injuries to slow the game down like nicky quaid getting something in his eye last year.
If its genuine then it's harsh but if they're acting the bollox then I'd make them wait for the next break in play.
This rule was apparently amended during the week, to include the goalkeeper! Doesn't make much sense.
I said that a few weeks ago that to circumvent all this is for the keeper to go down. The rule didn't mention keepers.
I'd make it another player must stand i goals and team down to 14 players until next break in play.
That is what is meant to happen even if there's a penalty to be taken, if the keeper receives treatment from the incident that led to the penalty being given they too need to leave the field of play until the next break in play or in MR2's case when he waves him back on...
;D
Those frankies never were ones for following the rules.
The biggest problem I see with this is some players in the heat of the game will wave away any medical attention so that they can stay on the pitch, which in turn will lead to missed concussions or other injuries
The common sense approach would be for the team that has a player waiting to come on would be to knock the ball outta play as soon as possible so their player can come straight back on
Be some gurning soon especially come championship