Guide to the Sam Maguire and Tailteann Cup in 2024

[seafoid]

Why do they do the draw for this before the provincial finals?

It's a good question.  Some teams might now be thinking a loss wouldn't be the end of the world, so it takes the edge off things.

I'm pretty sure both Donegal and Armagh will want to avoid the group with the winners of Mayo/Galway and Derry!

Mayo and Galway are certainly in a tough position. The loser will get Dublin, Ros and Cavan; the winner the aforementioned group with Derry, Donegal/Armagh and Westmeath.

Armagh beat Galway and Westmeath last year and drew with Derry. That would do again.
In any case, teams can reach the preliminary QFs by kicking the weakest team and then you see who you get there, although the sequence of games can banjax you with injuries etc.

Unless you waltz through your province and have the biggest panel

The last rr - pre qf- qf
 is the killer

I wonder how many first seeds will win their qf . Will it be 3/4 like last year ?

[twohands!!!]

The last rr - pre qf- qf
 is the killer

I wonder how many first seeds will win their qf . Will it be 3/4 like last year ?

You would have to assume 4/4 would be the standard every year for the group winners making it the the semis.
This would have been the case last year only for Monaghan's penalty win over Armagh.

I wouldn't be surprised if 3/4 would be the usual most years for the first seeds in as regards making the semis. I think most years you've a very decent chance of one of the Ulster teams turning over one of the other provincial winners.

As you said the the preliminary quarter-finals route with 3 games in 3 weekends looks like an absolute death-trap of a route towards Sam. It's very hard to see a team winning Sam through that route.

[93-DY-SAM]

Tyrone be happy with that draw, short drive to ulster winner and should have more than enough for clare and Cork. Draw from hell for Derry.

Definitely a tough draw for us but the only advantage to be had is from winning the group, so from that perspective avoiding Dublin and Kerry is most welcome.

It's hardly a draw from hell. If we can't beat Westmeath we don't deserve to be in last 12. In terms of topping the group, I'd prefer the Connacht winners to any other province. Ulster runner up will be a tough one but we should have plenty of motivation to play either of those teams.

Some people esp the media just love cliches particularly "the group of death".

[Blowitupref]

The last rr - pre qf- qf
 is the killer

I wonder how many first seeds will win their qf . Will it be 3/4 like last year ?

You would have to assume 4/4 would be the standard every year for the group winners making it the the semis.
This would have been the case last year only for Monaghan's penalty win over Armagh.

I wouldn't be surprised if 3/4 would be the usual most years for the first seeds in as regards making the semis. I think most years you've a very decent chance of one of the Ulster teams turning over one of the other provincial winners.

As you said the the preliminary quarter-finals route with 3 games in 3 weekends looks like an absolute death-trap of a route towards Sam. It's very hard to see a team winning Sam through that route.

Yes would expect that to be the case until such time that all Quarter finalists are given at least two weeks prep time.  If we get another 3 Quarter final mis-matches this year as we did last year then HQ need to tweak it.

[Armagh18]

The last rr - pre qf- qf
 is the killer

I wonder how many first seeds will win their qf . Will it be 3/4 like last year ?

You would have to assume 4/4 would be the standard every year for the group winners making it the the semis.
This would have been the case last year only for Monaghan's penalty win over Armagh.

I wouldn't be surprised if 3/4 would be the usual most years for the first seeds in as regards making the semis. I think most years you've a very decent chance of one of the Ulster teams turning over one of the other provincial winners.

As you said the the preliminary quarter-finals route with 3 games in 3 weekends looks like an absolute death-trap of a route towards Sam. It's very hard to see a team winning Sam through that route.

Yes would expect that to be the case until such time that all Quarter finalists are given at least two weeks prep time.  If we get another 3 Quarter final mis-matches this year as we did last year then HQ need to tweak it.

Yeah that extra week break is massive for teams. (Not that you'd have known with how shite we were vs Monaghan.)

[twohands!!!]

The last rr - pre qf- qf
 is the killer

I wonder how many first seeds will win their qf . Will it be 3/4 like last year ?

You would have to assume 4/4 would be the standard every year for the group winners making it the the semis.
This would have been the case last year only for Monaghan's penalty win over Armagh.

I wouldn't be surprised if 3/4 would be the usual most years for the first seeds in as regards making the semis. I think most years you've a very decent chance of one of the Ulster teams turning over one of the other provincial winners.

As you said the the preliminary quarter-finals route with 3 games in 3 weekends looks like an absolute death-trap of a route towards Sam. It's very hard to see a team winning Sam through that route.

Yes would expect that to be the case until such time that all Quarter finalists are given at least two weeks prep time.  If we get another 3 Quarter final mis-matches this year as we did last year then HQ need to tweak it.

I don't think there is any chance that all the quarter-finalists are going to be given two weeks prep time for a fair while yet (think 10 years or so).

If you give the four preliminary quarter-finalists two weeks, you would need to give the group winners three weeks (assuming you did't stagger the groups) which would tilt the advantage of winning the group a fair bit away from the group winners. I don't think the powers that be want to reduce the benefit of winning the group/increase the odds for the teams coming 2nd and 3rd in the group.

Even if you were to play around with the timing and stagger the group stages to give all four quarter-finalist two weeks, it would lead to a situation whereby you gave some sides three weeks and some two at a later stage which I think the powers-that be would consider a worse option.

Long story short I think the GAA is going to keep the status quo in place for a good few years yet and that winning your group is going to be key if you want to win Sam.

[Blowitupref]

The last rr - pre qf- qf
 is the killer

I wonder how many first seeds will win their qf . Will it be 3/4 like last year ?

You would have to assume 4/4 would be the standard every year for the group winners making it the the semis.
This would have been the case last year only for Monaghan's penalty win over Armagh.

I wouldn't be surprised if 3/4 would be the usual most years for the first seeds in as regards making the semis. I think most years you've a very decent chance of one of the Ulster teams turning over one of the other provincial winners.

As you said the the preliminary quarter-finals route with 3 games in 3 weekends looks like an absolute death-trap of a route towards Sam. It's very hard to see a team winning Sam through that route.

Yes would expect that to be the case until such time that all Quarter finalists are given at least two weeks prep time.  If we get another 3 Quarter final mis-matches this year as we did last year then HQ need to tweak it.

I don't think there is any chance that all the quarter-finalists are going to be given two weeks prep time for a fair while yet (think 10 years or so).

If you give the four preliminary quarter-finalists two weeks, you would need to give the group winners three weeks (assuming you did't stagger the groups) which would tilt the advantage of winning the group a fair bit away from the group winners. I don't think the powers that be want to reduce the benefit of winning the group/increase the odds for the teams coming 2nd and 3rd in the group.

Even if you were to play around with the timing and stagger the group stages to give all four quarter-finalist two weeks, it would lead to a situation whereby you gave some sides three weeks and some two at a later stage which I think the powers-that be would consider a worse option.

Long story short I think the GAA is going to keep the status quo in place for a good few years yet and that winning your group is going to be key if you want to win Sam.

The powers to be will surely want all of their All Ireland Quarters to be as competitive as they can possibly be?  In year one of this new format we got highly competitive Prem Quarter finals decided on fine margins and only one of the All Ireland Quarter finals going that way. If that is repeated this year it will have to be looked at sooner than later.

Topping your group avoiding play off game and not playing any of the group winners in the last 8 is enough of advantage IMO.

[Cunny Funt]

The last rr - pre qf- qf
 is the killer

I wonder how many first seeds will win their qf . Will it be 3/4 like last year ?

You would have to assume 4/4 would be the standard every year for the group winners making it the the semis.
This would have been the case last year only for Monaghan's penalty win over Armagh.

I wouldn't be surprised if 3/4 would be the usual most years for the first seeds in as regards making the semis. I think most years you've a very decent chance of one of the Ulster teams turning over one of the other provincial winners.

As you said the the preliminary quarter-finals route with 3 games in 3 weekends looks like an absolute death-trap of a route towards Sam. It's very hard to see a team winning Sam through that route.

Yes would expect that to be the case until such time that all Quarter finalists are given at least two weeks prep time.  If we get another 3 Quarter final mis-matches this year as we did last year then HQ need to tweak it.

I don't think there is any chance that all the quarter-finalists are going to be given two weeks prep time for a fair while yet (think 10 years or so).

If you give the four preliminary quarter-finalists two weeks, you would need to give the group winners three weeks (assuming you did't stagger the groups) which would tilt the advantage of winning the group a fair bit away from the group winners. I don't think the powers that be want to reduce the benefit of winning the group/increase the odds for the teams coming 2nd and 3rd in the group.

Even if you were to play around with the timing and stagger the group stages to give all four quarter-finalist two weeks, it would lead to a situation whereby you gave some sides three weeks and some two at a later stage which I think the powers-that be would consider a worse option.

Long story short I think the GAA is going to keep the status quo in place for a good few years yet and that winning your group is going to be key if you want to win Sam.

The powers to be will surely want all of their All Ireland Quarters to be as competitive as they can possibly be?  In year one of this new format we got highly competitive Prem Quarter finals decided on fine margins and only one of the All Ireland Quarter finals going that way. If that is repeated this year it will have to be looked at sooner than later.

Topping your group avoiding play off game and not playing any of the group winners in the last 8 is enough of advantage IMO.

HQ in congress were asked about making that tweak to the schedule and the answer was to wait for another year or two to see if it remains an issue. 

[yellowcard]

I'm not sure this extra week is that big of a deal at all. Professional soccer players are capable of playing 90 minute matches every 3/4 days in peak season and I've seen people claim that GAA players at the top level are just as fit. So these players are well capable of fully recovering physically in the space of 7 days.

What about the advantage of getting into a rhythm of playing top level games week on week. I certainly don't think its anywhere near as big of a deal as many people make out.

[shawshank]

Well Tyrone looked like a team that were out on there feet against Donegal at the finish, and that was just after their second consecutive game. Why oh why are you comparing amateur players who go to work on a Monday to a professional. 

[yellowcard]

Well Tyrone looked like a team that were out on there feet against Donegal at the finish, and that was just after their second consecutive game. Why oh why are you comparing amateur players who go to work on a Monday to a professional. 

Firstly Tyrone played 2 periods of extra time in both games so that was going to be a factor for anybody who played the full 100 minutes in both matches. The last match of the round robin can't go to extra time so you wouldn't have those circumstances for a preliminary quarter final.

I've heard it said before that GAA athletes are just as fit as some professional sportsmen and I do believe this to be the case in plenty of instances. The biggest difference will be in recovery time so I accept that. However if you trawl through a lot of the top county squads you will find plenty of lads that aren't going to work on Monday morning especially after a big intercounty fixture.   

[Blowitupref]

Wouldn't be comparing it professional sports. The proof will be in the pudding for the All Ireland Quarter finals this summer. I believe Mayo and Tyrone would have given a better account of themselves last year with more time to prepare for their Quarter final and it's worth taking into account Tyrone and Mayo would be among the best when it come to fitness and conditioning of their players.   

[yellowcard]

Wouldn't be comparing it professional sports. The proof will be in the pudding for the All Ireland Quarter finals this summer. I believe Mayo and Tyrone would have given a better account of themselves last year with more time to prepare for their Quarter final and it's worth taking into account Tyrone and Mayo would be among the best when it come to fitness and conditioning of their players.   

No point in pulling out hypothetical situations to fit your narrative. Both Kerry and Dublin would widely be seen as better sides with bigger squads than either Tyrone or Mayo. I could equally point to how a rested Armagh were knocked out by Monaghan (after extra time) despite them playing 3 weeks in a row and who were seen as underdogs prior to that match. There are a whole range of factors that could affect a result including momentum, injuries, suspensions, illness, match fitness, confidence, freshness etc.

It might well be an advantage depending on the circumstances but I just don't think its as cut and dried as some people try to make out. There will be players who would much prefer to be playing every week because if they aren't they are invariably spending a full day in a training camp on the weekend before the next match anyway.   

[Armagh18]

Wouldn't be comparing it professional sports. The proof will be in the pudding for the All Ireland Quarter finals this summer. I believe Mayo and Tyrone would have given a better account of themselves last year with more time to prepare for their Quarter final and it's worth taking into account Tyrone and Mayo would be among the best when it come to fitness and conditioning of their players.   

No point in pulling out hypothetical situations to fit your narrative. Both Kerry and Dublin would widely be seen as better sides with bigger squads than either Tyrone or Mayo. I could equally point to how a rested Armagh were knocked out by Monaghan (after extra time) despite them playing 3 weeks in a row and who were seen as underdogs prior to that match. There are a whole range of factors that could affect a result including momentum, injuries, suspensions, illness, match fitness, confidence, freshness etc.

It might well be an advantage depending on the circumstances but I just don't think its as cut and dried as some people try to make out. There will be players who would much prefer to be playing every week because if they aren't they are invariably spending a full day in a training camp on the weekend before the next match anyway.   

Because we shite the bed lol.

[yellowcard]

Wouldn't be comparing it professional sports. The proof will be in the pudding for the All Ireland Quarter finals this summer. I believe Mayo and Tyrone would have given a better account of themselves last year with more time to prepare for their Quarter final and it's worth taking into account Tyrone and Mayo would be among the best when it come to fitness and conditioning of their players.   

No point in pulling out hypothetical situations to fit your narrative. Both Kerry and Dublin would widely be seen as better sides with bigger squads than either Tyrone or Mayo. I could equally point to how a rested Armagh were knocked out by Monaghan (after extra time) despite them playing 3 weeks in a row and who were seen as underdogs prior to that match. There are a whole range of factors that could affect a result including momentum, injuries, suspensions, illness, match fitness, confidence, freshness etc.

It might well be an advantage depending on the circumstances but I just don't think its as cut and dried as some people try to make out. There will be players who would much prefer to be playing every week because if they aren't they are invariably spending a full day in a training camp on the weekend before the next match anyway.   

Because we shite the bed lol.

I definitely think that we are one of those teams that benefit from playing week on week. Too much time for analysis when we have a longer lead in period with long training weekends that can be mentally draining. Maybe its not the same for every county but we are much better when we don't focus too much on the opposition and concentrate on our own strengths.