Is the earlier Championship a success or failure?

[Redhand Santa]

It's certainly less than before but there is still advantages to winning your province. Looking at it from an ulster county point of view there's a good chance that Dublin/Kerry/Mayo (or Galway) will win their provinces and then go on to top their groups.

By winning your province you'll avoid being in their groups giving you a better chance of topping group and avoiding a play off to make the quarter finals. Also if you do that you won't meet any of them teams until the semi finals.

[seafoid]

If provincial championships were separate and the finals were played on st patricks day do you think they would get decent attendances.

The all ireland is build on the provinces because the GAA is controlled at provincial level.
In order to distance  the provincial championships from the all Ireland the GAA would have to be restructured.

This year will see the first major hit to the provincials - if you're already qualified for the all Ireland series, the provincials mean very little, not hard to see scenarios where teams are quite happy to play weakened teams in their province and get themselves right for the all Ireland group stages.

The provincials are still taking 4 weeks. And In Connacht D4 teams have a path to the final

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2023/0307/1360822-beirne-its-frustrating-were-still-in-division-4/
"For us, it's extremely exciting. It's 10 years ago that all the lower division teams ended up on the same side of the draw (in Connacht). But for us, it's a serious chance. It's an opportunity we have looked at.
"When you see that draw, it immediately sets you up to think 'oh my God, I could be playing in a Connacht final here.'
"As a county, that's one of our main goals - as well as the league - that we could possibly play in a Connacht final. We've massive games in that, against New York and then possibly London/ Sligo. It's a one in a lifetime opportunity.

[seafoid]

It's certainly less than before but there is still advantages to winning your province. Looking at it from an ulster county point of view there's a good chance that Dublin/Kerry/Mayo (or Galway) will win their provinces and then go on to top their groups.

By winning your province you'll avoid being in their groups giving you a better chance of topping group and avoiding a play off to make the quarter finals. Also if you do that you won't meet any of them teams until the semi finals.

In reality probably 30 teams plus Mayo haven't a hope of winning the All Ireland in any season. So winning a provincial title goes into the record books and is something. Once in a blue moon a D3 team or Monaghan might make an all Ireland semi.

The really memorable provincial titles for me would be Clare 92, Leitrim 94, Offaly 97, Laois 02, Westmeath 03, Sligo 07, Louth 10 , Tipp 20 and Cavan 20.
A Fermanagh Ulster title would be unforgettable.

[Rossfan]

You're a year out on Laois and Westmeath .
A lot of Counties have a reasonable chance of winning a Provincial, not many have a chance of Sam.
Last 20 years 2003 to 2022 Tyrone 4, Kerry 6 and Dublin 8 with Cork and Donegal 1 each.
Around 17 have won Provincials in those 20 years.

[AustinPowers]

It's certainly less than before but there is still advantages to winning your province. Looking at it from an ulster county point of view there's a good chance that Dublin/Kerry/Mayo (or Galway) will win their provinces and then go on to top their groups.

By winning your province you'll avoid being in their groups giving you a better chance of topping group and avoiding a play off to make the quarter finals. Also if you do that you won't meet any of them teams until the semi finals.

In reality probably 30 teams plus Mayo haven't a hope of winning the All Ireland in any season. So winning a provincial title goes into the record books and is something. Once in a blue moon a D3 team or Monaghan might make an all Ireland semi.

The really memorable provincial titles for me would be Clare 92, Leitrim 94, Offaly 97, Laois 02, Westmeath 03, Sligo 07, Louth 10 , Tipp 20 and Cavan 20.
A Fermanagh Ulster title would be unforgettable.

What about  Kildare in  98 and  Armagh in 99?

Longford won a Leinster in 1968  I think it was .  Surely that must have been  a big  deal at the time  in Longford ?

[seafoid]

It's certainly less than before but there is still advantages to winning your province. Looking at it from an ulster county point of view there's a good chance that Dublin/Kerry/Mayo (or Galway) will win their provinces and then go on to top their groups.

By winning your province you'll avoid being in their groups giving you a better chance of topping group and avoiding a play off to make the quarter finals. Also if you do that you won't meet any of them teams until the semi finals.

In reality probably 30 teams plus Mayo haven't a hope of winning the All Ireland in any season. So winning a provincial title goes into the record books and is something. Once in a blue moon a D3 team or Monaghan might make an all Ireland semi.

The really memorable provincial titles for me would be Clare 92, Leitrim 94, Offaly 97, Laois 02, Westmeath 03, Sligo 07, Louth 10 , Tipp 20 and Cavan 20.
A Fermanagh Ulster title would be unforgettable.

What about  Kildare in  98 and  Armagh in 99?

Longford won a Leinster in 1968  I think it was .  Surely that must have been  a big  deal at the time  in Longford ?

Kildare were very flaithiulach to us in the 98 final but both teams would have been D1 at the time I imagine.

[onefineday]

It's certainly less than before but there is still advantages to winning your province. Looking at it from an ulster county point of view there's a good chance that Dublin/Kerry/Mayo (or Galway) will win their provinces and then go on to top their groups.

By winning your province you'll avoid being in their groups giving you a better chance of topping group and avoiding a play off to make the quarter finals. Also if you do that you won't meet any of them teams until the semi finals.

In reality probably 30 teams plus Mayo haven't a hope of winning the All Ireland in any season. So winning a provincial title goes into the record books and is something. Once in a blue moon a D3 team or Monaghan might make an all Ireland semi.

The really memorable provincial titles for me would be Clare 92, Leitrim 94, Offaly 97, Laois 02, Westmeath 03, Sligo 07, Louth 10 , Tipp 20 and Cavan 20.
A Fermanagh Ulster title would be unforgettable.

And indeed, there's much more chance of Fermanagh winning a provincial title in this new era - as a d3 team they'll be gunning for it, whereas that may not be the case for the 5 Ulster teams who are guaranteed to be in the all Ireland series regardless.
Winning the province had prestige, but also offered a significant reward on the road to an all Ireland - to my mind that reward is now minimal, achieving a seeding is largely irrelevant when 3 teams out of 4 qualify and definitely not worth peaking for a month before the real games start. We'll see, but if this format were to be retained the worth of a provincial title or final appearance to top teams would very quickly diminish. It'll soon be that getting to the provincial final wil be the reward and much like a league final, neither team will want to play the game given the proximity of the next round of games.

[seafoid]

 John Fogarty last year

"The famous ESRI reports, which highlighted inter-county players were spending up to 31 hours a week towards their commitments in 2016, were interpreted in different ways by the GAA and the GPA. The GAA's decision to cut the length of the inter-county season may eventually lead to a better training to game ratio but the concentrated period is a challenge."

[seafoid]

Here is a selection of views

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/darragh-o-se-gaa-losing-out-as-other-sports-reach-their-endgames-1.4874956
If I'm honest about it, I'm not hearing the noise. The provincial football championships are racing through at breakneck speed and there is something not quite right about it. There's ducking and diving and dodging going on against a lot of other sports – the Champions League, Heineken Cup, the endgame to the English Premier League – that it is all so hectic just now and they're getting lost in the midst of it all.
It is like bumper cars; and I think the GAA are losing!
Unfortunately the GAA are like a boat turning in the water decision-wise, and you've still got this 60-40 majority you've to get at congress for anything to happen. That's archaic and you just can't progress. Every other sport we are competing with – be it soccer, or rugby or whatever – can make real-time decisions based on commerciality and for the good of their games.
The GAA has given away its best two months of the intercounty calendar – in August and September – when it had the stage to itself and was the only show in town.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2022/0411/1291647-bonnar-short-season-leaves-players-in-vicious-circle/
Tipperary manager Colm Bonnar feels that the new split-season format has left county players trapped in "a vicious circle" with no period of downtime
Bonnar said that the lack of preparation time between league and championship was hard to deal with.
"Looking at it now, if players aren't fully fit when they come into you – most of the [club] campaigns are finishing at the end of October – a lot of them are in to November if they're in to the final stages of their own hurling campaigns in the county.
"There's just no time off for players anymore. It's a vicious circle and we've found that if players weren't coming to us....we'd have a six-week period leading into the league where we're officially allowed to train the players and if you're not fit coming in there, you're straight away struggling and probably won't make the league. The league will be over before you get your fitness and before you know it the championship is on top of you.
"You have a five-month window really from January to May and it's your championship season. It's over before you know it. That's going to be very, very unusual if they keep that format.
"It just means players if they want to play for their county, they're going to have to keep that conditioning and that preparedness constantly as long as they want to play hurling at a high level
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40969997.html


"The famous ESRI reports, which highlighted inter-county players were spending up to 31 hours a week towards their commitments in 2016, were interpreted in different ways by the GAA and the GPA. The GAA's decision to cut the length of the inter-county season may eventually lead to a better training to game ratio but the concentrated period is a challenge."

Effectively cutting eight weeks from the GAA's highest profile products hasn't been the easiest sell as some of the reactions to the split season would demonstrate. The loss of profile argument is one both Duffy and Ryan have railed against, Duffy having previously argued against moving the All-Irelands out of September, but it is not going to go away.
Replays would never be budgeted for and are considered bonuses and without them that average gate receipt figure would have dipped below €30m. Now that they are all but gone from the championships – all games are winners on the day and All-Ireland finals first have to go to extra-time before they can be replayed.

smaller inter-county window may prove  less appealing commercially.
The tangible cost of the split season? Excluding the team preparations savings it will bring, a price tag of somewhere around €3m is within reason

https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2022/0912/1322014-sherlock-split-season-requires-period-of-reflection/
Sherlock said that the shortened inter-county season puts extra pressure on coaching teams between games, and he believes Derry's All-Ireland semi-final loss to Galway was a good example of this "The challenge with a shorter season is the preparation. It's very hard to prepare, particularly going from a semi-final into a final.
"Obviously, physically and mentally, it almost takes a week before the players recover from what they've done. Then, you have to focus your attention on another team. So you have to prepare for them. Then you obviously have to prepare for yourself."You take Derry as an example. Going into that Galway match, it's easy to say in hindsight that they should have had 'Plan B', and should have played attacking football, but when you have such a limited window, there's only so much you can work on.
"The reality is if guys are together three or four times a week, that's as much as you have. You don't have time like a professional where you can cover everything."From a coaching point of view, I'd prefer the longer season because you have more time to ensure that you have all your players, a full compliment, because you'll obviously have injuries."Then, tactically, you can prepare against what you're going to compete against but also then you can work out what's the best team for a given day."
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/

"Every player now, you can never relax fully. You need to be ticking over in the down season. I think that maintenance work is going to ramp up even more in the next couple of years because of the split-season."
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/


"I do think some counties do have to slim down to 12-team or 16-team championships to have them run off properly in a calendar season. I can understand the reasons why some counties have a Senior B championship but clear out all that rubbish, make it Senior, Intermediate and then Junior 1, Junior 2 etc
https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/

"The championship needs to be a bit longer, it's compressed a little bit too much"

"I think the split-season has been quite successful but I certainly wouldn't jump into it for the next 10 years without giving it really good thought about all the aspects," he says. "Particularly how you're going to grow the game and keep it at the forefront for young people.



https://www.rte.ie/sport/hurling/2023/0106/1345281-timing-is-everything-calendar-sharpens-january-focus/

"Every player now, you can never relax fully. You need to be ticking over in the down season. I think that maintenance work is going to ramp up even more in the next couple of years because of the split-season."

Even now, as we head into the second year of the divided county-club calendar, the All-Ireland club finals will spill over into January 2024, with the result that players from those clubs usually end up missing league fixtures.

"I would like to see some definite down-time for all players," says Cheddar. "Even those last couple of weeks of the year. Everyone needs a break, even mentally.

"Take TJ Reid for example, one of the best hurlers of any generation, over the last few seasons he is playing well into the year with inter-county and then into the following year with his club Ballyhale.

"You probably have to have a bit of flexibility in year one but I would expect the GAA authorities to tighten up with that.
"I do think some counties do have to slim down to 12-team or 16-team championships to have them run off properly in a calendar season. I can understand the reasons why some counties have a Senior B championship but clear out all that rubbish, make it Senior, Intermediate and then Junior 1, Junior 2 etc.

"I think if all counties had that it would be much easier then to schedule games to make sure that your All-Ireland club championship is going to be held on the second Sunday in December."

"The championship needs to be a bit longer, it's compressed a little bit too much"

Plunkett, who will take charge of Kilkenny intermediate club St Martin's next year, thinks the new calendar model is a move in the right direction but is far from the finished article.

"I think the split-season has been quite successful but I certainly wouldn't jump into it for the next 10 years without giving it really good thought about all the aspects," he says. "Particularly how you're going to grow the game and keep it at the forefront for young people.

"Having it last year was really good because it gave us a sense of what it looks like. But what are we comparing that against
? We would have to have, for example, a blended season or something to compare It with.

[Eire90]

provincials are now basically a seeding competition

[Rossfan]

As well as being competitions in their own right.
That's been the situation since 2001.

[seafoid]

I don't see why club can't overlap.
And hurling needs more summer exposure.

[Blowitupref]

One of biggest issues with the split and very congested season is that under age inter county championships get totally lost or ignored.  For example the U20 football championship started tonight and I bet that's news to most on here.

[screenexile]

I don't see why club can't overlap.
And hurling needs more summer exposure.

Hurling needs more competitive teams!!

[seafoid]

I don't see why club can't overlap.
And hurling needs more summer exposure.

Hurling needs more competitive teams!!

I agree