The SDLP

Started by ardmhachaabu, April 23, 2010, 09:32:25 PM

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marty34

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 11:48:08 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2020, 11:43:39 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 11:26:13 PM
Quote from: marty34 on November 20, 2020, 08:43:43 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 20, 2020, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: Armamike on November 20, 2020, 12:02:23 PM
How would you propose that a united Ireland will be sold to unionists? Because if there's no buy in to a degree from one side we know from history what is likely to happen.  I aspire to a united Ireland but I want to see a vision clearly articulated and sold to the people.  I don't see that from SF or the SDLP at the minute. In fact, if you ask a politician to give a case for it, they tend to stumble.  I don't want to see SF lead or take control of a future looking united Ireland agenda.  The case needs to be built by and involve a much broader pool of stakeholders, opinion formers etc (call it civic nationalism or whatever).  There has to be some buy in from people from a unionist background or leaning. SF are toxic to that electorate and on their own won't deliver anything peaceful or lasting.

There will be no UNITED Ireland anytime soon. What I mean is even if we see it physically we will not have a happy or peaceful society. Unionists are not ready for it, SF are the wrong party to convince them. We need a different party to bridge the gap. I don't know how we get around that

And when will unionists be ready for it then?

Unionists will never be ready for it?

How you reckon we deal with that

Ceist mhaith -but you say SF are not the ones to move it forward.

It's your go - who, in your opinion, are?

I think a nationalist party with less baggage in Unionists eyes. In the end couid it be one of the parties in the Republic with a change of approach?

Unionists will never change - if you think that, you've very naive.

Look at what was happening in the shipyards 100 years ago and look at things nowadays....then ask yourself will they change overnight?  I think they are getting worse.

Unionists treat the Alliance party with distain but you think that some new nationalist party will suddenly change their mind re: the unification of Ireland?

As I say - completely out of touch.

Dougal Maguire

I haven't been following this discussion but as regards the last couple of comments the Alliance Party's support is growing and also there's a considerable number of people from a unionist persuasion who don't vote at all which would suggest they're disillusioned by the antics of their political leaders and could possibly be persuaded of the merits of a UI. 
Careful now

LCohen

Read that SF "economic" document.

I was accused of second guessing it's content. Wouldn't have been difficult. He a re-presentation of a greatest hits of earlier documents. An environmental twist thrown in.

I was correct about the pensions. This runs to the heart of the fraud in this document. It's is based upon selective quoting from earlier research. It's is concluded that Scottish citizens keep their accrued UK pension rights and Edinburgh foot the bill. The first bit of that suits the SF narrative but the second doesn't. So the first but finds it's way into the document but the second doesn't.

But there are other issues. No doubt the reduced economic activity in border areas but can we jump to the conclusion that that is because of the border. Were these areas poorer that other areas before the border? Are there historic issues in many of these areas due to land quality, distance from major/historic conurbations, road and infrastructure?

They reference benefits of local decision making. Doesn't specify how these play out but surely this is about the form of devolution rather than where power is devolved from?

Where is the analysis of how much of NI's historic economic woes are related to The Troubles and the inhibition it places on investment?

The troubles and impact on investment

The references to Hubner and Fitzgerald are again selective.

There are references to the impact of the various forms of Brexit on East-west trade between GB and NI but where is the analysis of the east-west trade between RoI and GB?

On the green agenda it's is completely unclear what the advantage of UI is on delivering a green agenda. What element of the competition for private sector investment is hampered by the border? There already is a single electricity market and NI gets additional financial support to that sector that are not included in the subvention stats.

It's not an honest document

Angelo

Quote from: LCohen on November 21, 2020, 09:06:30 AM
Read that SF "economic" document.

I was accused of second guessing it's content. Wouldn't have been difficult. He a re-presentation of a greatest hits of earlier documents. An environmental twist thrown in.

I was correct about the pensions. This runs to the heart of the fraud in this document. It's is based upon selective quoting from earlier research. It's is concluded that Scottish citizens keep their accrued UK pension rights and Edinburgh foot the bill. The first bit of that suits the SF narrative but the second doesn't. So the first but finds it's way into the document but the second doesn't.

But there are other issues. No doubt the reduced economic activity in border areas but can we jump to the conclusion that that is because of the border. Were these areas poorer that other areas before the border? Are there historic issues in many of these areas due to land quality, distance from major/historic conurbations, road and infrastructure?

They reference benefits of local decision making. Doesn't specify how these play out but surely this is about the form of devolution rather than where power is devolved from?

Where is the analysis of how much of NI's historic economic woes are related to The Troubles and the inhibition it places on investment?

The troubles and impact on investment

The references to Hubner and Fitzgerald are again selective.

There are references to the impact of the various forms of Brexit on East-west trade between GB and NI but where is the analysis of the east-west trade between RoI and GB?

On the green agenda it's is completely unclear what the advantage of UI is on delivering a green agenda. What element of the competition for private sector investment is hampered by the border? There already is a single electricity market and NI gets additional financial support to that sector that are not included in the subvention stats.

It's not an honest document

You're not an honest poster.

Are you still persisting with your "I'm not a stoop" facade?
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

marty34

Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 21, 2020, 08:40:33 AM
I haven't been following this discussion but as regards the last couple of comments the Alliance Party's support is growing and also there's a considerable number of people from a unionist persuasion who don't vote at all which would suggest they're disillusioned by the antics of their political leaders and could possibly be persuaded of the merits of a UI.

All well and good Dougal but how do we find out?

Test the water by having a border poll!

Unfortunately the main 'nationalist' parties i.e. SDLP, FF/FG are all stating that now is not the right time, 2021 will not be the right time and 2025 will be not the right time.

Once again, I ask these parties, when is the right time?

LCohen

Quote from: Angelo on November 21, 2020, 10:28:14 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 21, 2020, 09:06:30 AM
Read that SF "economic" document.

I was accused of second guessing it's content. Wouldn't have been difficult. He a re-presentation of a greatest hits of earlier documents. An environmental twist thrown in.

I was correct about the pensions. This runs to the heart of the fraud in this document. It's is based upon selective quoting from earlier research. It's is concluded that Scottish citizens keep their accrued UK pension rights and Edinburgh foot the bill. The first bit of that suits the SF narrative but the second doesn't. So the first but finds it's way into the document but the second doesn't.

But there are other issues. No doubt the reduced economic activity in border areas but can we jump to the conclusion that that is because of the border. Were these areas poorer that other areas before the border? Are there historic issues in many of these areas due to land quality, distance from major/historic conurbations, road and infrastructure?

They reference benefits of local decision making. Doesn't specify how these play out but surely this is about the form of devolution rather than where power is devolved from?

Where is the analysis of how much of NI's historic economic woes are related to The Troubles and the inhibition it places on investment?

The troubles and impact on investment

The references to Hubner and Fitzgerald are again selective.

There are references to the impact of the various forms of Brexit on East-west trade between GB and NI but where is the analysis of the east-west trade between RoI and GB?

On the green agenda it's is completely unclear what the advantage of UI is on delivering a green agenda. What element of the competition for private sector investment is hampered by the border? There already is a single electricity market and NI gets additional financial support to that sector that are not included in the subvention stats.

It's not an honest document

You're not an honest poster.

Are you still persisting with your "I'm not a stoop" facade?

I have shown you the lie on pensions. What are your thoughts? Do you think it was good of SF to spin that lie or bad to spin that lie?

Rossfan

Quote from: marty34 on November 21, 2020, 10:32:07 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 21, 2020, 08:40:33 AM
I haven't been following this discussion but as regards the last couple of comments the Alliance Party's support is growing and also there's a considerable number of people from a unionist persuasion who don't vote at all which would suggest they're disillusioned by the antics of their political leaders and could possibly be persuaded of the merits of a UI.

All well and good Dougal but how do we find out?

Test the water by having a border poll!

Unfortunately the main 'nationalist' parties i.e. SDLP, FF/FG are all stating that now is not the right time, 2021 will not be the right time and 2025 will be not the right time.

Once again, I ask these parties, when is the right time?
As you should know it's up to the Brit Secretary of State to call a "border poll" per the GFA.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

marty34

Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2020, 11:34:48 AM
Quote from: marty34 on November 21, 2020, 10:32:07 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on November 21, 2020, 08:40:33 AM
I haven't been following this discussion but as regards the last couple of comments the Alliance Party's support is growing and also there's a considerable number of people from a unionist persuasion who don't vote at all which would suggest they're disillusioned by the antics of their political leaders and could possibly be persuaded of the merits of a UI.

All well and good Dougal but how do we find out?

Test the water by having a border poll!

Unfortunately the main 'nationalist' parties i.e. SDLP, FF/FG are all stating that now is not the right time, 2021 will not be the right time and 2025 will be not the right time.

Once again, I ask these parties, when is the right time?
As you should know it's up to the Brit Secretary of State to call a "border poll" per the GFA.

OMG...and parties can't agitate for it?

So we just wait and let the Sos decide when it's going to be.

I think you should look at Scotland and see how they are agitating for Indy2.

Not sure what your parties, Fine Fail, are doing about it - ohh wait the dept. in the 26 that deals with the 6 counties is the Dept. of Foreign Affairs...ffs.

Should you and Flanagan and the west brits today not be looking to built a statue to the people who murdered the people in Croke Park?


Rossfan

Good man. Plenty of insults.
Lads like you will ensure the 26 Co electorate won't vote for a UI.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

smelmoth

Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2020, 03:10:37 PM
Good man. Plenty of insults.
Lads like you will ensure the 26 Co electorate won't vote for a UI.

A big question as to whether Sinn Fein have the discipline to run a referendum campaign.

Once you get to see "West Brit" or "quisling" in the southern debate you are kissing goodbye to any chance of convincing moderates north or south.

Also there will have to be a serious economic debate. The details of which will be poured over. Sinn Fein have already shown the that they will use flimsy data. That is going to get ripped apart in a proper debate. They would have to up their game massively

Angelo

Quote from: LCohen on November 21, 2020, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 21, 2020, 10:28:14 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 21, 2020, 09:06:30 AM
Read that SF "economic" document.

I was accused of second guessing it's content. Wouldn't have been difficult. He a re-presentation of a greatest hits of earlier documents. An environmental twist thrown in.

I was correct about the pensions. This runs to the heart of the fraud in this document. It's is based upon selective quoting from earlier research. It's is concluded that Scottish citizens keep their accrued UK pension rights and Edinburgh foot the bill. The first bit of that suits the SF narrative but the second doesn't. So the first but finds it's way into the document but the second doesn't.

But there are other issues. No doubt the reduced economic activity in border areas but can we jump to the conclusion that that is because of the border. Were these areas poorer that other areas before the border? Are there historic issues in many of these areas due to land quality, distance from major/historic conurbations, road and infrastructure?

They reference benefits of local decision making. Doesn't specify how these play out but surely this is about the form of devolution rather than where power is devolved from?

Where is the analysis of how much of NI's historic economic woes are related to The Troubles and the inhibition it places on investment?

The troubles and impact on investment

The references to Hubner and Fitzgerald are again selective.

There are references to the impact of the various forms of Brexit on East-west trade between GB and NI but where is the analysis of the east-west trade between RoI and GB?

On the green agenda it's is completely unclear what the advantage of UI is on delivering a green agenda. What element of the competition for private sector investment is hampered by the border? There already is a single electricity market and NI gets additional financial support to that sector that are not included in the subvention stats.

It's not an honest document

You're not an honest poster.

Are you still persisting with your "I'm not a stoop" facade?

I have shown you the lie on pensions. What are your thoughts? Do you think it was good of SF to spin that lie or bad to spin that lie?

I'm afraid you've done no such thing. The one lie you have showed us is your "I'm not a stoop" facade.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Angelo

Quote from: Rossfan on November 21, 2020, 03:10:37 PM
Good man. Plenty of insults.
Lads like you will ensure the 26 Co electorate won't vote for a UI.

It's actually lads like you will do your utmost to keep your rotten corrupt state in the same hands that have ravaged state services and resources to the private sector over the past 50 years.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Fear Bun Na Sceilpe

Quote from: Angelo on November 21, 2020, 04:17:54 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 21, 2020, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 21, 2020, 10:28:14 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 21, 2020, 09:06:30 AM
Read that SF "economic" document.

I was accused of second guessing it's content. Wouldn't have been difficult. He a re-presentation of a greatest hits of earlier documents. An environmental twist thrown in.

I was correct about the pensions. This runs to the heart of the fraud in this document. It's is based upon selective quoting from earlier research. It's is concluded that Scottish citizens keep their accrued UK pension rights and Edinburgh foot the bill. The first bit of that suits the SF narrative but the second doesn't. So the first but finds it's way into the document but the second doesn't.

But there are other issues. No doubt the reduced economic activity in border areas but can we jump to the conclusion that that is because of the border. Were these areas poorer that other areas before the border? Are there historic issues in many of these areas due to land quality, distance from major/historic conurbations, road and infrastructure?

They reference benefits of local decision making. Doesn't specify how these play out but surely this is about the form of devolution rather than where power is devolved from?

Where is the analysis of how much of NI's historic economic woes are related to The Troubles and the inhibition it places on investment?

The troubles and impact on investment

The references to Hubner and Fitzgerald are again selective.

There are references to the impact of the various forms of Brexit on East-west trade between GB and NI but where is the analysis of the east-west trade between RoI and GB?

On the green agenda it's is completely unclear what the advantage of UI is on delivering a green agenda. What element of the competition for private sector investment is hampered by the border? There already is a single electricity market and NI gets additional financial support to that sector that are not included in the subvention stats.

It's not an honest document

You're not an honest poster.

Are you still persisting with your "I'm not a stoop" facade?

I have shown you the lie on pensions. What are your thoughts? Do you think it was good of SF to spin that lie or bad to spin that lie?

I'm afraid you've done no such thing. The one lie you have showed us is your "I'm not a stoop" facade.

Out of interest. Where you from. What age are you

Angelo

Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 21, 2020, 05:15:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on November 21, 2020, 04:17:54 PM
Quote from: LCohen on November 21, 2020, 11:29:31 AM
Quote from: Angelo on November 21, 2020, 10:28:14 AM
Quote from: LCohen on November 21, 2020, 09:06:30 AM
Read that SF "economic" document.

I was accused of second guessing it's content. Wouldn't have been difficult. He a re-presentation of a greatest hits of earlier documents. An environmental twist thrown in.

I was correct about the pensions. This runs to the heart of the fraud in this document. It's is based upon selective quoting from earlier research. It's is concluded that Scottish citizens keep their accrued UK pension rights and Edinburgh foot the bill. The first bit of that suits the SF narrative but the second doesn't. So the first but finds it's way into the document but the second doesn't.

But there are other issues. No doubt the reduced economic activity in border areas but can we jump to the conclusion that that is because of the border. Were these areas poorer that other areas before the border? Are there historic issues in many of these areas due to land quality, distance from major/historic conurbations, road and infrastructure?

They reference benefits of local decision making. Doesn't specify how these play out but surely this is about the form of devolution rather than where power is devolved from?

Where is the analysis of how much of NI's historic economic woes are related to The Troubles and the inhibition it places on investment?

The troubles and impact on investment

The references to Hubner and Fitzgerald are again selective.

There are references to the impact of the various forms of Brexit on East-west trade between GB and NI but where is the analysis of the east-west trade between RoI and GB?

On the green agenda it's is completely unclear what the advantage of UI is on delivering a green agenda. What element of the competition for private sector investment is hampered by the border? There already is a single electricity market and NI gets additional financial support to that sector that are not included in the subvention stats.

It's not an honest document

You're not an honest poster.

Are you still persisting with your "I'm not a stoop" facade?

I have shown you the lie on pensions. What are your thoughts? Do you think it was good of SF to spin that lie or bad to spin that lie?

I'm afraid you've done no such thing. The one lie you have showed us is your "I'm not a stoop" facade.

Out of interest. Where you from. What age are you

Not really any of your business is it?
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

LCohen

Anybody share Angela's concern as to whether or not a supporter is the SDLP?

Or indeed does anybody share is absolute conviction that I am in fact an SDLP supporter?

Anybody think it is grown up thing to keep coming back to?


Again for absolute clarity I have voted first/only choice for SDLP in the past. A grand total of twice