The Sunday Game

[Syferus]

To me it's relatively simple to my eyes and has almost nothing to do with format changes - split overall revenue between the counties and work out a good formula that allows the biggest counties more money to cover their larger playing populations. Finding the right balance would be hard but not impossible.

Once you do that you can introduce a minimum and maximum cap on senior team spending. You'll force counties to either get serious about running their county team or risk losing funding and you'd allow counties with plenty of passion and talent to compete on as level a playing field as we're likely to get. You'd prevent ridiculous situations like one county barely being able to afford to train their team for an extra week while their opponents jet off to Portugal for a camp. We need to use revenue in smarter ways to foster a healthier championship.

Basically an altered version of the American NFL model that accounts for the fact different-sized counties need different-sized allowances outside the senior set-up.

The obvious roadblock is county board and provincial councils who may fear losing their power but the majority of counties would benefit at the end of it. Ah, an ideal world.

[PAULD123]

Not on TSG, but Mc Hugh's analysis on BBC rubbishing the provincial championships was the most significant on TV today. It's a 2 horse race in all four provincial championships. Kildare might give the Dubs a scare, but will be beaten; Donegal are going to cruise through Ulster, Kerry and Cork are playing friendlies until they meet and Mayo have taken care of their best rivals in the west.

It's high time we moved to an open draw for the AI.

It seems to me that there are teams who don't believe they can win their province and are happy for a "good run in the qualifiers". I am opposed to scrapping the wonderful provincial crowns, in Ulster it still means a lot. But I think a semi-open draw is a good idea. When Cork will meet Kerry in the Munster final the winner goes to quarter final and the punishment for loser is merely to go back one step to last 16. There is not a big enough prize for winning. So I think the provincial winner should be rewarded with a quarter final place, but every other team, no mater where they finished in the province, should go into an open draw. Then getting to and winning a provincial crown would really mean something.

[Fuzzman]

I was persuaded to go to the Westmead match on Sat night as I don't think I'd ever been to a Leinster first round match before.
I had expected Dublin to win handy enough but I at least though Westmead would put up some sort of "fight"
You could just tell from the first 5 mins and lack of bite in the tackle that Westmead had already accepted their fate with Dessie Dolan not starting. I was telling the lad I was with that in Ulster, if Tyrone were playing Antrim, Fermanagh and especially Monaghan you'd be seeing all sorts of off the ball stuff and a lot harder hits. A bit of fight and not this lying down and rolling over attitude that most teams show v Dublin in Croke Park.
The level of intensity wasn't there from the start and so Dublin knew they would get time & space to play their attractive passing game.

The last Leinster match I was at was the 2004 final between these two teams which Westmead won.
I can see now why Dublin get so uneasy before going into 1/4 final matches against the bigger guns as they know they've had such a cake walk up until then.
I read that in the 24 Leinster matches since that 2004 final, Dublin have only lost once, that freakish 11 point lose to Meath in 2010. I was joking to my mate that they should request to play in Ulster for a year or two to see how they'd fare, like Galway in the hurling. IN Ulster in the last 20 years there has been 6 different winners. Surprisingly Down haven't won it since 1996

[johnneycool]

When it comes to finances and resources available every county should be comparable. Thats the crux of the issue.

It has never been that way before so why should it be now?

What if every county got the same amount of money and some squandered it on magic beans (Kildare & Waterford two cases in point) - should they get the same again the next year off the back of a county that has been prudent?

Depends on your definition of squandered, GAA has never been bigger probably in either county, the GAA facilities outside the county grounds in Kildare are fantastic, you should check out Hawkfield, Naas, Sarsfields, Celbridge even junior clubs like Rathcoffey and Ardclough, it's the biggest sport in the county by a mile. Look at Dublin, for all their millions their not particularly prudent, their county ground is not much better than Newbridge with worse parking. How many new clubs and players in Dublin over the last decade?

Too much money in Dublin club GAA is spent on outside players, that is money squandered.

three new clubs founded within a few miles where I live in the past few years. catering for a massive number of players.
I know of at least one more over around swords.

To create parity, i think there needs to be a timetable of training, challenge matches as well as ordinary fixtures that should be adhered to. Also a set amount of players and money spent on designated things.
We need to keep the spend down and to deliver parity to all senior intercounty teams.
I still feel Dublin are on the up and will start to dominate more from now on. The bigger playing populations will (and should).
My other suggestion would be to impose an intercounty/club football/hurling set fixtures list for each season so people (players, mentors, parents, etc etc) know what days they have free (For work and holidays etc) - this is imperitive imo.

It is not as easy as bigger populations. for some counties such as Leitrim, population is an issue but Kilkenny don't have a big population.  Kerry don't either. 

Dublin kids have a lot of options sportswise and other sports like rugby and soccer are trawling for kids with promise. The GAA has a hard job bringing players up through the ranks. I bet it is easier in Tyrone. 

I was in a sports shop in Liffey valley the other day. There was only one GAA jersey variety on sale (Dub) and GAA display space was at most 5% of the soccer equivalent.   Rugby gear had way more space as well.

i think it helps massively. Generalisation yes, but imo its half the battle.
the other half is coaching underage to quality levels, then up to county mgt.

kerry and kilkenny really only play one sport - so their population is all accessible generally only to that one game.

dunno about the sports shops- poss seasonal with the recent rugby finals and the lions tour on. also its only the start of the GAA championship season. Liffey valley will be awash with dubs jerseys on sale and worn in a week or two.

Do Derry only play one sport?

[Syferus]

I mean sponsorships, gate receipts, everything, even a percentage of donations. Again it's only in an ideal world you'd get all that through but a move towards a system where we don't have a few intercounty teams flooded with cash and others not even able to afford to train their teams is only going to bring things closer.

Even a system where we just ring fence enough money for counties to fund preparation of their senior teams would make a big difference in the long run, and capping spending will prevent teams from having huge advantages in terms what they can do to prepare. I don't think a system where counties are spending hand over fist on senior preparation is sustainable and it has already started to become a drain on other areas of the sport. We've got a lovely flower but we're rotting the roots.

Obviously smaller populations will always have a disadvantage over the bigger ones but if teams are funded to a relatively similar level you are going to see a lot of levelling off of the extremes of the system and it will allow more counties to have viable hopes of success and even All-Irelands.

[Mike Sheehy]

When it comes to finances and resources available every county should be comparable. Thats the crux of the issue.

It has never been that way before so why should it be now?

What if every county got the same amount of money and some squandered it on magic beans (Kildare & Waterford two cases in point) - should they get the same again the next year off the back of a county that has been prudent?

Depends on your definition of squandered, GAA has never been bigger probably in either county, the GAA facilities outside the county grounds in Kildare are fantastic, you should check out Hawkfield, Naas, Sarsfields, Celbridge even junior clubs like Rathcoffey and Ardclough, it's the biggest sport in the county by a mile. Look at Dublin, for all their millions their not particularly prudent, their county ground is not much better than Newbridge with worse parking. How many new clubs and players in Dublin over the last decade?

Too much money in Dublin club GAA is spent on outside players, that is money squandered.

three new clubs founded within a few miles where I live in the past few years. catering for a massive number of players.
I know of at least one more over around swords.

To create parity, i think there needs to be a timetable of training, challenge matches as well as ordinary fixtures that should be adhered to. Also a set amount of players and money spent on designated things.
We need to keep the spend down and to deliver parity to all senior intercounty teams.
I still feel Dublin are on the up and will start to dominate more from now on. The bigger playing populations will (and should).
My other suggestion would be to impose an intercounty/club football/hurling set fixtures list for each season so people (players, mentors, parents, etc etc) know what days they have free (For work and holidays etc) - this is imperitive imo.

It is not as easy as bigger populations. for some counties such as Leitrim, population is an issue but Kilkenny don't have a big population.  Kerry don't either. 

Dublin kids have a lot of options sportswise and other sports like rugby and soccer are trawling for kids with promise. The GAA has a hard job bringing players up through the ranks. I bet it is easier in Tyrone. 

I was in a sports shop in Liffey valley the other day. There was only one GAA jersey variety on sale (Dub) and GAA display space was at most 5% of the soccer equivalent.   Rugby gear had way more space as well.

i think it helps massively. Generalisation yes, but imo its half the battle.
the other half is coaching underage to quality levels, then up to county mgt.

kerry and kilkenny really only play one sport - so their population is all accessible generally only to that one game.

dunno about the sports shops- poss seasonal with the recent rugby finals and the lions tour on. also its only the start of the GAA championship season. Liffey valley will be awash with dubs jerseys on sale and worn in a week or two.

I suppose I'd better get onto the Kerryman about those "fantasy football" soccer leagues they have been trying to pass off as real all along. This could rival the moon landing in the lengths they have gone to...pictures in the paper every week for decades. I always suspected something when you had "Kerrymen" call "Galwey" playing rugby at Landsdowne road. Just sounds suspicious.

[Jinxy]

I was persuaded to go to the Westmead match on Sat night as I don't think I'd ever been to a Leinster first round match before.
I had expected Dublin to win handy enough but I at least though Westmead would put up some sort of "fight"
You could just tell from the first 5 mins and lack of bite in the tackle that Westmead had already accepted their fate with Dessie Dolan not starting. I was telling the lad I was with that in Ulster, if Tyrone were playing Antrim, Fermanagh and especially Monaghan you'd be seeing all sorts of off the ball stuff and a lot harder hits. A bit of fight and not this lying down and rolling over attitude that most teams show v Dublin in Croke Park.
The level of intensity wasn't there from the start and so Dublin knew they would get time & space to play their attractive passing game.

The last Leinster match I was at was the 2004 final between these two teams which Westmead won.
I can see now why Dublin get so uneasy before going into 1/4 final matches against the bigger guns as they know they've had such a cake walk up until then.
I read that in the 24 Leinster matches since that 2004 final, Dublin have only lost once, that freakish 11 point lose to Meath in 2010. I was joking to my mate that they should request to play in Ulster for a year or two to see how they'd fare, like Galway in the hurling. IN Ulster in the last 20 years there has been 6 different winners. Surprisingly Down haven't won it since 1996

How many different winners have there been in the last 20 years in Leinster?

[seafoid]

I was persuaded to go to the Westmead match on Sat night as I don't think I'd ever been to a Leinster first round match before.
I had expected Dublin to win handy enough but I at least though Westmead would put up some sort of "fight"
You could just tell from the first 5 mins and lack of bite in the tackle that Westmead had already accepted their fate with Dessie Dolan not starting. I was telling the lad I was with that in Ulster, if Tyrone were playing Antrim, Fermanagh and especially Monaghan you'd be seeing all sorts of off the ball stuff and a lot harder hits. A bit of fight and not this lying down and rolling over attitude that most teams show v Dublin in Croke Park.
The level of intensity wasn't there from the start and so Dublin knew they would get time & space to play their attractive passing game.

The last Leinster match I was at was the 2004 final between these two teams which Westmead won.
I can see now why Dublin get so uneasy before going into 1/4 final matches against the bigger guns as they know they've had such a cake walk up until then.
I read that in the 24 Leinster matches since that 2004 final, Dublin have only lost once, that freakish 11 point lose to Meath in 2010. I was joking to my mate that they should request to play in Ulster for a year or two to see how they'd fare, like Galway in the hurling. IN Ulster in the last 20 years there has been 6 different winners. Surprisingly Down haven't won it since 1996

How many different winners have there been in the last 20 years in Leinster?

2 Leinster AI winners vs 5 Ulster in the last 20 years. Kildare can win Leinster but nothing beyond that .

[Lar Naparka]

When it comes to finances and resources available every county should be comparable. Thats the crux of the issue.

It has never been that way before so why should it be now?

What if every county got the same amount of money and some squandered it on magic beans (Kildare & Waterford two cases in point) - should they get the same again the next year off the back of a county that has been prudent?

Depends on your definition of squandered, GAA has never been bigger probably in either county, the GAA facilities outside the county grounds in Kildare are fantastic, you should check out Hawkfield, Naas, Sarsfields, Celbridge even junior clubs like Rathcoffey and Ardclough, it's the biggest sport in the county by a mile. Look at Dublin, for all their millions their not particularly prudent, their county ground is not much better than Newbridge with worse parking. How many new clubs and players in Dublin over the last decade?

Too much money in Dublin club GAA is spent on outside players, that is money squandered.

three new clubs founded within a few miles where I live in the past few years. catering for a massive number of players.
I know of at least one more over around swords.

To create parity, i think there needs to be a timetable of training, challenge matches as well as ordinary fixtures that should be adhered to. Also a set amount of players and money spent on designated things.
We need to keep the spend down and to deliver parity to all senior intercounty teams.
I still feel Dublin are on the up and will start to dominate more from now on. The bigger playing populations will (and should).
My other suggestion would be to impose an intercounty/club football/hurling set fixtures list for each season so people (players, mentors, parents, etc etc) know what days they have free (For work and holidays etc) - this is imperitive imo.

It is not as easy as bigger populations. for some counties such as Leitrim, population is an issue but Kilkenny don't have a big population.  Kerry don't either. 

Dublin kids have a lot of options sportswise and other sports like rugby and soccer are trawling for kids with promise. The GAA has a hard job bringing players up through the ranks. I bet it is easier in Tyrone. 

I was in a sports shop in Liffey valley the other day. There was only one GAA jersey variety on sale (Dub) and GAA display space was at most 5% of the soccer equivalent.   Rugby gear had way more space as well.

All your points are valid but there are other issues to take into account as well.
Do you remember the report of the committee headed by Peter Quinn that looked at the structures of the GAA and came up with recommendations for change?
(Can't recall the time but it was about 10-12 years ago.)
One such recommendation was that Dublin be split in three for GAA purposes with each region acting as a separate entity.
The howls from the true blue Dubs knocked that on the head but the basis of the proposal was valid.
Quinn and his team looked at the number of kids playing at weekends in each county and found that each of the five largest Dublin clubs could field more youngsters than any of five named counties. I know Leitrim and Fermanagh were mentioned and I think Sligo, Monaghan and Cavan were the others.
The emphasis on the suggestion was the huge drop of in participation as the age limits increased as ultimately there is only one county panel at the top of the pyramid.
That's the case in every other county as well but if Dublin was split up, the drop out rate as kids get older would decrease dramatically.
I thought the proposal deserved serious consideration. For starters, Dublin is now effectively three different counties for local government purposes.

Selective enough in  your stats there Larnaparka.

Most of the "superclubs" would have an A, B and C team only at underage level. Maybe according to the census they "could" field more than other counties but they don't and never will.

When you tot them up there aren't too many of such superclubs but they are always trotted out as the norm.

DLRCC area for example  has c210,000 people and I reckon only 8 or so GAA clubs.

Not saying that Dublin has its advantages but not to the extent widely portrayed.

I didn't mean to come across as selective; after all, those are not my stats but those of Peter Quinn's committee.
This group had a wide-ranging remit to look at the structures in all counties and to back with suggestions on how to improve those they found in need of overhaul or change. The high drop out rate of Dublin underage players was one of the items they reviewed.
The proposal they came up with was to split Dublin in three for GAA affairs with each region sporting its own county team.

[PAULD123]

Okay, Here is a comment that actually about The Sunday Game, not about how the GAA spends its money.

I watched the full Derry vs Down match again on RTE Player. I was furious that they simply do not edit the program so that we see all the action. At least three quarters of all kick outs are completely missed due to irrelevant replays (often third showing from a different angle), moody shots of the managers, or (and this has to be the best) a long lingering view of the flags fluttering. I was watching it, hear a roar from crowd, then when they finally stop showing someone rolling around in slow motion and return to the action the ball is one team's 21 yard zone and I have no idea how it got there.

Or, on return to live action, someone is lying flat on the ground and the best the commentator can say is - "Someone is lying flat on the ground, something must have happened while we were watching the replay". Which is great that they are getting paid to make these comments because if they weren't there then I personally would have been stupid enough to think that Someone is lying flat on the ground, something must have happened while we were watching the replay. AAAArgh.

Stupid editing spoiling the game, you can have no idea how the kick-outs were won.

[imtommygunn]

I had to turn it to BBC on sunday. The replays on RTE made it nigh on impossible to watch the game. They'd replay incidents 3 times, sometimes 4, and all the while the play was going on. They didn't miss goals but I think they missed the one where Madine could have had a goal.

It really was farcical.

[RMDrive]

How hard can it be to go to a split screen for the replay when the action has restarted. You see this in other sports all the time. If their interview with the coach at HT is still running when the game has restarted, they'll put the interview into a smaller box in the corner with the live action shown in a larger box. Surely that is bread and butter for a modern production team?

[Hardy]

It's simple. They don't care because they don't have to care.

[ross matt]

All the above posts aside lads... did anyone notice how dignified, generous, unselfish and classy Dermot Early junior was in his punditry on TSG the other night?  The apple don't fall far from the tree....

[Rossfan]

All the above posts aside lads... did anyone notice how dignified, generous, unselfish and classy Dermot Early junior was in his punditry on TSG the other night?  The apple don't fall far from the tree....

+1.
You wouldn't expect any different from that family.