Water Charges. How much?

Started by Denn Forever, May 14, 2014, 02:14:17 PM

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Rossfan

How do I go about getting a refund of my motor tax seeing as I have to pay for water?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Tubberman

Quote from: magpie seanie on November 16, 2017, 03:05:03 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 15, 2017, 06:19:28 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 15, 2017, 04:13:11 PM
Enjoy your refunds lads, any of ye that were stupid enough to pay. There's no need to thank the thousands of us that stood up for what is right, just get up off your arses the next time yourselves.

You're some arsehole  ;D

You'd prefer not to pay and instead just pump raw sewerage out into the sea

You're abusive post doesn't deserve a reply but I'll indulge you.

What you've said there is called a false equivalence. A bit like Rossfan - using a fact and jumping to a completely irrational, unrelated and false conclusion. Like, say, that Mayo won't win Sam until those two ould lads left from their last win pass away. Pure bullshit. No one advocated pumping raw sewage into the sea at any stage. You made that up.

For the record - I pay my all my taxes including Motor Tax which is the funding vehicle set up to fund water services in this country since the 1997 FA. There is more than enough money collected in taxation under its various guises to ensure all facets of water services are catered for. The mismanagement, lack of planning and waste of money is not a reason to add another charge on people for what they're already paying for. You're obviously under some illusion that IW was going to make everything better - clearly that won't happen and couldn't happen as it's full of the same people who managed water services for the local authorities. Mr Kearns who was the county manager who left Sligo county council over €10M in debt being a prime example.

Well that's obviously untrue. The taxes go into one big pot and we've been running a budget deficit since the crash, so there isn't enough money to cover everything that's draining from the same pot.
And even if it was true and we had enough money to cover all our spending commitments, you can be sure once times got tight, the water budget would be one of the first to be cut.
Which is why if there was a dedicated income stream for IW it couldn't be touched - there would be a guaranteed income so future investment could be planned with certainty.
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall."

macdanger2

Quote from: magpie seanie on November 16, 2017, 03:05:03 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 15, 2017, 06:19:28 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 15, 2017, 04:13:11 PM
Enjoy your refunds lads, any of ye that were stupid enough to pay. There's no need to thank the thousands of us that stood up for what is right, just get up off your arses the next time yourselves.

You're some arsehole  ;D

You'd prefer not to pay and instead just pump raw sewerage out into the sea

You're abusive post doesn't deserve a reply but I'll indulge you.

What you've said there is called a false equivalence. A bit like Rossfan - using a fact and jumping to a completely irrational, unrelated and false conclusion. Like, say, that Mayo won't win Sam until those two ould lads left from their last win pass away. Pure bullshit. No one advocated pumping raw sewage into the sea at any stage. You made that up.

For the record - I pay my all my taxes including Motor Tax which is the funding vehicle set up to fund water services in this country since the 1997 FA. There is more than enough money collected in taxation under its various guises to ensure all facets of water services are catered for. The mismanagement, lack of planning and waste of money is not a reason to add another charge on people for what they're already paying for. You're obviously under some illusion that IW was going to make everything better - clearly that won't happen and couldn't happen as it's full of the same people who managed water services for the local authorities. Mr Kearns who was the county manager who left Sligo county council over €10M in debt being a prime example.

It's a bit rich feeling persecuted after opening your own post by calling people stupid.

Tubberman has already replied with most of what I would have said.

It's worth noting also that of all the reasons protestors gave for not paying their bills, only one of them has been resolved i.e. having to pay the actual money, but the protests have stopped. Unless you've been out protesting about general inefficiency in govt spending (which I don't disagree with) which you claim is the reason you didn't pay Seanie?


OgraAnDun

Quote from: Tubberman on November 16, 2017, 04:22:20 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 16, 2017, 03:05:03 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 15, 2017, 06:19:28 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 15, 2017, 04:13:11 PM
Enjoy your refunds lads, any of ye that were stupid enough to pay. There's no need to thank the thousands of us that stood up for what is right, just get up off your arses the next time yourselves.

You're some arsehole  ;D

You'd prefer not to pay and instead just pump raw sewerage out into the sea

You're abusive post doesn't deserve a reply but I'll indulge you.

What you've said there is called a false equivalence. A bit like Rossfan - using a fact and jumping to a completely irrational, unrelated and false conclusion. Like, say, that Mayo won't win Sam until those two ould lads left from their last win pass away. Pure bullshit. No one advocated pumping raw sewage into the sea at any stage. You made that up.

For the record - I pay my all my taxes including Motor Tax which is the funding vehicle set up to fund water services in this country since the 1997 FA. There is more than enough money collected in taxation under its various guises to ensure all facets of water services are catered for. The mismanagement, lack of planning and waste of money is not a reason to add another charge on people for what they're already paying for. You're obviously under some illusion that IW was going to make everything better - clearly that won't happen and couldn't happen as it's full of the same people who managed water services for the local authorities. Mr Kearns who was the county manager who left Sligo county council over €10M in debt being a prime example.

Well that's obviously untrue. The taxes go into one big pot and we've been running a budget deficit since the crash, so there isn't enough money to cover everything that's draining from the same pot.
And even if it was true and we had enough money to cover all our spending commitments, you can be sure once times got tight, the water budget would be one of the first to be cut.
Which is why if there was a dedicated income stream for IW it couldn't be touched - there would be a guaranteed income so future investment could be planned with certainty.

Serious question here - how much of that deficit is used to service our debt that was incurred when bailing out private organisations (the banks)?

Rossfan

Hazard a guess 4% of €65bn = €2.65bn? ???

I believe the books will balance this year.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

magpie seanie

Quote from: Tubberman on November 16, 2017, 04:22:20 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 16, 2017, 03:05:03 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 15, 2017, 06:19:28 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 15, 2017, 04:13:11 PM
Enjoy your refunds lads, any of ye that were stupid enough to pay. There's no need to thank the thousands of us that stood up for what is right, just get up off your arses the next time yourselves.

You're some arsehole  ;D

You'd prefer not to pay and instead just pump raw sewerage out into the sea

You're abusive post doesn't deserve a reply but I'll indulge you.

What you've said there is called a false equivalence. A bit like Rossfan - using a fact and jumping to a completely irrational, unrelated and false conclusion. Like, say, that Mayo won't win Sam until those two ould lads left from their last win pass away. Pure bullshit. No one advocated pumping raw sewage into the sea at any stage. You made that up.

For the record - I pay my all my taxes including Motor Tax which is the funding vehicle set up to fund water services in this country since the 1997 FA. There is more than enough money collected in taxation under its various guises to ensure all facets of water services are catered for. The mismanagement, lack of planning and waste of money is not a reason to add another charge on people for what they're already paying for. You're obviously under some illusion that IW was going to make everything better - clearly that won't happen and couldn't happen as it's full of the same people who managed water services for the local authorities. Mr Kearns who was the county manager who left Sligo county council over €10M in debt being a prime example.

Well that's obviously untrue. The taxes go into one big pot and we've been running a budget deficit since the crash, so there isn't enough money to cover everything that's draining from the same pot.
And even if it was true and we had enough money to cover all our spending commitments, you can be sure once times got tight, the water budget would be one of the first to be cut.
Which is why if there was a dedicated income stream for IW it couldn't be touched - there would be a guaranteed income so future investment could be planned with certainty.

Quite the opposite in fact. There's oceans of money available to the exchequer but waste, unwillingness to properly chase tax evaders among other things have meant our current position hasn't been great. That and the ridiculous acceptance of 43% of Europe's bank debt and the interest thereon.

As for the guaranteed future investment - how can you say this? There's absolutely no guarantees with IW, especially if/when Dobby takes it over. This organisation have handed out meaty bonuses to themselves on the basis of what exactly. Your faith in them is blindingly naïve to put it mildly especially with the track records of some involved. Perhaps a national utility company is the best approach but it must be funded from central taxation - taxes people pay on the basis of ability to pay. Well that's the theory anyway. In practice tax avoidance/evasion is the biggest spanner in the works of how our democracy is supposed to work. And IW must be answerable to the government/Oireachtas. If they're not doing their job then the politicians must sort it out or face the consequences.

magpie seanie

Quote from: macdanger2 on November 16, 2017, 07:53:43 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 16, 2017, 03:05:03 PM
Quote from: macdanger2 on November 15, 2017, 06:19:28 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on November 15, 2017, 04:13:11 PM
Enjoy your refunds lads, any of ye that were stupid enough to pay. There's no need to thank the thousands of us that stood up for what is right, just get up off your arses the next time yourselves.

You're some arsehole  ;D

You'd prefer not to pay and instead just pump raw sewerage out into the sea

You're abusive post doesn't deserve a reply but I'll indulge you.

What you've said there is called a false equivalence. A bit like Rossfan - using a fact and jumping to a completely irrational, unrelated and false conclusion. Like, say, that Mayo won't win Sam until those two ould lads left from their last win pass away. Pure bullshit. No one advocated pumping raw sewage into the sea at any stage. You made that up.

For the record - I pay my all my taxes including Motor Tax which is the funding vehicle set up to fund water services in this country since the 1997 FA. There is more than enough money collected in taxation under its various guises to ensure all facets of water services are catered for. The mismanagement, lack of planning and waste of money is not a reason to add another charge on people for what they're already paying for. You're obviously under some illusion that IW was going to make everything better - clearly that won't happen and couldn't happen as it's full of the same people who managed water services for the local authorities. Mr Kearns who was the county manager who left Sligo county council over €10M in debt being a prime example.

It's a bit rich feeling persecuted after opening your own post by calling people stupid.

Tubberman has already replied with most of what I would have said.

It's worth noting also that of all the reasons protestors gave for not paying their bills, only one of them has been resolved i.e. having to pay the actual money, but the protests have stopped. Unless you've been out protesting about general inefficiency in govt spending (which I don't disagree with) which you claim is the reason you didn't pay Seanie?

I outlined my reasons quite clearly several times. I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion. A contributory factor but the main one was having to pay a 2nd or 3rd time for a service. Secondly, the fear of IW being privatised once they had established an income stream....I genuinely believe it was only a matter of time before FG handed IW over to their buddy Dobby. No income stream has basically neutralised that. So my main reasons are dealt with. It's still not an ideal situation but a victory nonetheless.

Rossfan

Meanwhile I'm still paying for water and paying tax to subsidise the townies.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

trileacman

Arguing against water taxes is the typical "me first f**k the rest" attitude. It will be viewed in 30 years time as a major mistake and the populist rush that moved to counter them will someday swell to support their introduction.

Typical fucktard attitude of the educated masses.
Fantasy Rugby World Cup Champion 2011,
Fantasy 6 Nations Champion 2014

Rossfan

#234
The €200m which the taxpayer (including those of us who have to pay for water) has to stump up in lieu of public water and sewerage charges would build around 800 social houses annually.
Less people struggling to rent privately = lower rents and lower house prices for the kids of middle class townies.
But NO! Let us keep our €3 a week and to hell with the future.....
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

magpie seanie


Mayo4Sam

You do know that part of the reason to tax water specifically is to tackle usage. If people have to pay for something you're less likely to waste it. Water is a very expensive commodity, getting people to use it sensibly and sparingly
Excuse me for talking while you're trying to interrupt me

magpie seanie

Quote from: Mayo4Sam on November 25, 2017, 10:39:33 PM
You do know that part of the reason to tax water specifically is to tackle usage. If people have to pay for something you're less likely to waste it. Water is a very expensive commodity, getting people to use it sensibly and sparingly

Fixing the water network would achieve a lot more than an elimination of water wasting by the general public. I wouldn't encourage wasting of water but we're not a country that's short of water - it's just a problem with a creaking network after years of underinvestment that we're only getting a fraction of it to the tap.

Rossfan

Fixing the water network costs  €€€€€s which will have to come from that "General Taxation" so beloved of the loonielefties.
So are we going to pay the extra taxes needed?
Yet all I'm hearing from the Government is tax cuts.
If you want Scandinavian public services.......
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

magpie seanie

Quote from: Rossfan on December 07, 2017, 09:47:03 AM
Fixing the water network costs  €€€€€s which will have to come from that "General Taxation" so beloved of the loonielefties.
So are we going to pay the extra taxes needed?
Yet all I'm hearing from the Government is tax cuts.
If you want Scandinavian public services.......

We pay more than enough through direct indirect taxes if FF/FG/Lab hadn't squandered so much money over the years. Hell - we even came up with 43% of Europe's banking debt one time when we were asked to. Where here's a will there's a way. Nationalise our oil and gas, or increase the royalties significantly) - that would pay for a lot.