The IRISH RUGBY thread

[seafoid]

Thought we have flattered to deceive a little during this campaign. Performance v Italy was turgid for a good while; narrow victory over a badly-managed and selected France team; better v England who were indisciplined. Today, we were one-dimensional, and I don't think our backs are as good as some may believe. We don't have great pace or imagination in our attack angles but international rugby is more and more about one big hit after another now anyway. Might have it all to do v Scotland who will be seeking to redeem something from a dismal campaign.

The Irish pack isn't the biggest and the team needs to be extremely disciplined to make up for the lack of size.

[Sidney]

Very good piece Sidney, and I totally agree with your assertion that it was mistakes that let Ireland down today. I still think Scmidt is a world class coach, but today has left a sense of doubt that we could be doing without.

That doubt for me is he had seemed to eradicate the old bad habits of Irish Rugby by instilling a confidence into the team that we recognised from his invincible Leinster teams - scrum, line-out, handling, but most of all, being able to take our chances.
Until Schmidt arrived, I had rarely seen an Ireland team being able to finish off a chance when they were 5 yards from the opposition try line.
Unfortunately today (apart from the scrum), all of the above came back to haunt us. When basic skills are not executed, in any sport, it is nigh on impossible to win. And for me, that is down to a lack of confidence in the individual or team.

That is what worries me - confidence low and invincibility gone. Something I did not expect from a Schmidt team at full strength.
The Welsh must be an awful team to follow as well - being able to play like that when it matters, and stumbling through other matches.

Also, I am sick of the sight of Gatland, from the Lions/O'Driscoll incident to today.

Best has a long history of being unreliable at the lineout and make no mistake, it was squarely down to him that Ireland lost so much lineout ball. It will always be an issue for him.

Sexton clearly wasn't right today and it didn't appear to me to be merely an issue with his hamstring. His hamstring doesn't explain his knock on of a simple pass reception with about ten minutes left. I wonder how much he has really been affected by all those bangs to the head.

Ireland's game plan is particularly physically punishing and perhaps more basic mistakes are happening given the cumulative physical toll of the matches. That doesn't augur well for the World Cup.

[T Fearon]

Good for the game that Ireland's Puke Rugby didn't deliver a grand slam

[lynchbhoy]

Good for the game that Ireland's Puke Rugby didn't deliver a grand slam

You can't blame Ireland for that

Where will I see you  tomorrow ?
Lounge in hampden?

[screenexile]

Good for the game that Ireland's Puke Rugby didn't deliver a grand slam

Pity for the GAA that 2002 happened... Its been downhill ever since!

[An Watcher]

I think todays game was decided by the referees interpretation of the rules. While he was poor for both sides I don't think I've ever seen poc questioning a referee in such a way during the game.  It does no harm losing before the wc and if we can work on try scoring between now and then while keeping everything else as is we'll be doing ok. Proud of the effort today but it just wasn't to be

[Main Street]

Wales won and they deserved to. They did everything better.  They kicked penalties better, they won most every garryowen, they were better at the lineouts, their out-half was better, they defended better, they attacked our line more efficiently. Ireland were second fiddle throughout.

[Syferus]

Wales won and they deserved to. They did everything better.  They kicked penalties better, they won most every garryowen, they were better at the lineouts, their out-half was better, they defended better, they attacked our line more efficiently. Ireland were second fiddle throughout.

Over the final 68 minutes Wales were outscored 16-11.

[gallsman]

England werent even the best team the year they won it, think they got my respect if they had actually beat new Zealand not Australia to win the world cup as they were the best team that year.

Ffs, that summer England went away to NZ on tour and best them. They were definitely the best team in the world that year.

Wales won and they deserved to. They did everything better.  They kicked penalties better, they won most every garryowen, they were better at the lineouts, their out-half was better, they defended better, they attacked our line more efficiently. Ireland were second fiddle throughout.

Over the final 68 minutes Wales were outscored 16-11.

Yeah but they won the first 12 12-0, didn't they?

What has been noticeable to me in this championship is how few clean line breaks Ireland are making. Today the two most memorable ones came from O'Connell for God's sake.

I disagree about Bowe being one of the best in the world. He's looked miles off the pace offensively for years and is a huge liability defensively.

[tiempo]

I think todays game was decided by the referees interpretation of the rules. While he was poor for both sides I don't think I've ever seen poc questioning a referee in such a way during the game.  It does no harm losing before the wc and if we can work on try scoring between now and then while keeping everything else as is we'll be doing ok. Proud of the effort today but it just wasn't to be

Yeah, while the referee was consistent his interpretation was baffling, forwards caught in the opposition 9 position mere seconds after making legitmate attempts to secure the ball, who then stopped challenging for the ball and were 100% physically incapable of moving out of the 9 position pinged for penalties, pedantic in the extreme.

[foxcommander]

Oh you beauty Wales...Cyrmu Abu!

I've not heard that version of the Irish national anthem ever played at Croke Park. Someone should have a word with the Artane Boys Band to get it right. Oireland, Oireland, together standing tall...LOL.

[Milltown Row2]

With Wales playing first it will at least let Ireland know what they have to do...Scotland played really well for good portions of the game yesterday and shit the times England opened them up..

[trileacman]

As a fair weather watcher of the game, I thought that Ireland had enough possession to win. The two key plays which let them down were clearly that prolonged period of pressure that ended after about 60 minutes with a penalty to Wales and the time with about eight or nine minutes left where they were camped on the line and failed to see the space out wide.

I've seen comments on various forums slating Jozef Schmidt over his "poor game plan". A couple of weeks ago he was the best coach in the world. When his game plan produces wins, he's eulogised. When it doesn't produce a win, he's "shown up for tactical naivety". The standard of debate amonsgt the general public on rugby is, in the words of Malcolm Tucker from The Thick Of It, low, soooo, soooo low (include sarcastic hand gesture to illustrate lowness).

Schmidt rightly recognises that Ireland can only win these type of matches in one way. Pretty much every other team apart from New Zealand can only win in the same way.

He rightly recognises that "top level" international rugby is now little more than a barbaric physical dirge, recognises that Ireland are limited in the backs (not that they'd be able to run the ball anyway even if they weren't limited) and has built a game plan based on eliminating mistakes. But some of his players made basic mistakes anyway either because they are naturally uncoordinated oafs (Best and Healy) or because they are probably still concussed and not fit to play (Sexton).

Running rugby at international level is pretty much thing of the past (at least when you have two evenly matched teams) and this is the reality. Ireland are a limited team in terms of running ability but this is not necessarily a stumbling block to winning a match because that's not how teams win these days. The result of a match now hinges on who wins the physical battle and makes least mistakes - Ireland had the better of the physical battle overall but made more basic mistakes. Eliminate those and Ireland would probably have won.

That, with the Wales-England game, was the best match of this championship and I thought Ireland in many ways played better than in the matches against France and England. But even at that there was little running rugby and the game was yet again mainly a barbaric physical battle. Even today's match was not an attractive spectacle for those of us who used to enjoy the running rugby of O'Driscoll, Geoghegan, Ringland and MacNeill etc, and when it's bad, as it was against France and England, it's utterly putrid. There would appear to be no place now for somebody like Zebo who does have running ability but is too small and lightweight for this level and was absolutely swatted aside all day and the same would no doubt go for the likes of Keith Earls.

I thought Paul O'Connell was inspirational, played like a true leader, did the job of the backs at times by making line breaks and was easily the best player on either team.

The constant physical collisions, rucks and mauls are making the game almost impossible to referee accurately and again I found myself baffled at a number of decisions, as I do in pretty much every match these days, particularly the penalty to Wales at the end. Rugby rules (sorry, laws) are like a secret handshake or something. I don't know or understand the handshake and I'm not sure anybody, even the players or referees, do, and there's no point anybody pretending otherwise.

Brilliant post, this should be posted on the door of every media outlet in Ireland.

Firstly, rugby is a complex game different in many respects to GAA or soccer. This means there's a f**king load of uninformed opinion out  there at present who laud wins over poor and unimaginative French and England sides at home as major achievements. They weren't and this Irish side aren't as good as all the advertising executives want to shovel down your throat like Paul O'Connell obliterating a rhino. I mean fucks sake that's as self gratifying an ad that even I don't think the English soccer hype machine has ever surpassed.

Secondly, international rugby has become an awful dirge. Honestly I would consider it almost in a state of crisis. Where has attacking back play gone? Schmidt like Gatland and to a degree Lancaster have all figured the golden rule of competing at this level. Always, always, always kick in your own half and 2 fill the backs with men as big as your forwards and smash early and often. How people could consider this side a great Irish team is incredulous if you consider the fact that against Wales, France or England in the 6 nations we have not carried the ball over the try-line once. Not a single time. With the exception of a box-kick 22 yards out, for the past 3 matches all of Ireland's scores have been awarded at the whim of the referee. All of them. And when you get a guy like Barnes who makes up the rules when he feels like giving you a score you're fcuked.

[johnneycool]

Lets not kid ourselves but Ireland were poor on Saturday, as poor as they've been in a while and still the Welsh were the ones hanging on for the bigger part of the game.
For all the poor handling, missed passes, kicks and what not, I'd fancy Ireland to beat Wales if we meet them in the WC.
I wouldn't be throwing the baby out with the bath water, and it'll do a good bit to lower the expectation into a WC later on in the year.

One thing I was disappointed in though was the number of times during the 30 odd phases of play when Ireland were camped on the Welsh line that the Irish ball carrier received the ball in a static position and allowed the welsh defence to come out yard by yard. Surely someone should have been coming in full pelt a bit deeper rather than standing which made it easier on the welsh.

Wayne Barnes is a knob though, how in thunder of god that last scrum was a penalty to Wales (and another one early in the first half) when Ireland were dominating there is beyond me.

[screenexile]

Lets not kid ourselves but Ireland were poor on Saturday, as poor as they've been in a while and still the Welsh were the ones hanging on for the bigger part of the game.
For all the poor handling, missed passes, kicks and what not, I'd fancy Ireland to beat Wales if we meet them in the WC.
I wouldn't be throwing the baby out with the bath water, and it'll do a good bit to lower the expectation into a WC later on in the year.

One thing I was disappointed in though was the number of times during the 30 odd phases of play when Ireland were camped on the Welsh line that the Irish ball carrier received the ball in a static position and allowed the welsh defence to come out yard by yard. Surely someone should have been coming in full pelt a bit deeper rather than standing which made it easier on the welsh.

Wayne Barnes is a knob though, how in thunder of god that last scrum was a penalty to Wales (and another one early in the first half) when Ireland were dominating there is beyond me.

Sensible. . . all the hype about the 10 winning streak etc. was over the top and all the criticism from Saturday is the same. We had enough ball to win 3 games on Saturday and dominated the majority of the game. Hopefully it'll put the handbrake on expectation. We haven't become a bad team overnight and the weaknesses exploited by Wales I'm sure will be worked on.

I don't doubt we have the best coach around so I'll take Saturdays result with a pinch of salt and I still fancy us to win the 6N outright as I can't seen the French rolling over for the English and we can beat the Scots by 4 points more than the English will beat France if they even beat them at all!!