China Coronavirus

[Louther]

Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.

Same people make a similar decision each winter about the flu jab. The elderly get it. Those with underlying health conditions get it. People who are susceptible to heavy flus get it. Most of us don't bother as we either haven't had a proper flu, or have had a proper flu so rarely, that the benefits to accrued are minimal.

As a species we are innately good at measuring risk.

——

Before some gobshite rounds on me for comparing flu with Covid, I am not. I am comparing the thought processes of people who seek inoculations.

I can see the reasoning behind your point but the fact you've to add a disclaimer to the post about not comparing it to the flu says a lot about the thought process out there.

People do still think of it "as just a bad flu" - commonly mentioned from early on. That sentiment alone should resonate a lot to people. A bad flu isn't good at all and most people have never truly had it, myself included but have seen people with it and it's not easy. In a Flu season we rarely see it in scale we have with covid - January been a real eye opener for me as to how quickly it caught hold from what was a limited window to spread in December. The age profile of those admitted to ICU wasn't high.

Also worth looking at impact of long covid and the future impacts it will have. Re-infection as well another major unknown at this stage.

The argument of the vaccine affects are one thing but so too are the impact of the above regardless of now mild the virus impacted someone in the present time.

Lot of unknowns still in play.

[sid waddell]

To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...

Nobody has argued that you should be physically forced to take a vaccine

What they are arguing is that society is entitled to take measures that advantage people who do get vaccinated and disadvantage people who do not

This is an argument between two competing visions of freedom

The vision of freedom where people are entitled to not have an unreasonable degree of risk thrust upon them against their will versus the vision of freedom where people are entitled to inflict an unreasonable degree of risk on others

It is essentially similar to the argument between climate crisis realists and climate crisis deniers

[GetOverTheBar]

To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...

Nobody has argued that you should be physically forced to take a vaccine

What they are arguing is that society is entitled to take measures that advantage people who do get vaccinated and disadvantage people who do not

This is an argument between two competing visions of freedom

The vision of freedom where people are entitled to not have an unreasonable degree of risk thrust upon them against their will versus the vision of freedom where people are entitled to inflict an unreasonable degree of risk on others

It is essentially similar to the argument between climate crisis realists and climate crisis deniers

No argument with you Sid on this really, but I will ask, is this not akin to the argument at the start of this thread (how long ago that feels now...) why didn't we "lock up" (protect) the elderly and the vulnerable vs letting the healthy younger population go ahead?

I do think certain members of the board however refer to this as full on no choice, physical vaccination BTW.

[sid waddell]

No argument with you Sid on this really, but I will ask, is this not akin to the argument at the start of this thread (how long ago that feels now...) why didn't we "lock up" (protect) the elderly and the vulnerable vs letting the healthy younger population go ahead?

I do think certain members of the board however refer to this as full on no choice, physical vaccination BTW.

There was a clear winner of the lockdown/stringent public health measures v let it rip/laissez-faire argument

That argument was settled once and for all at Christmas

Younger people do not exist on a private island - they exist in society

We all have to share a planet - the American "libertarian" version of freedom, which is what the ideology that says there should be no consequences for refusing to be vaccinated is - is the road to destruction, to a Lord of The Flies version of humanity

[armaghniac]

Nobody has argued that you should be physically forced to take a vaccine

What they are arguing is that society is entitled to take measures that advantage people who do get vaccinated and disadvantage people who do not

And for the avoidance of doubt, I am not proposing that people who do not take the vaccine be disadvantaged for the craic, I am proposing that they continue to subject to the type of restrictions that we are all subject to at the present time. We free ourselves from the restrictions by getting vaccinated.

And in relation to travel, requirements for vaccination have existed for years. Smallpox vaccinations were universally required for travel back in the day and currently there are various requirements for Yellow Fever etc.

[screenexile]

I'd be 100% alright with people who haven't had the vaccine living under restriction... no travel/work from home/click and collect with no entry into shops.

That would soon increase uptake and it's what the Govt should do!

Similar to smoking... yeah you can smoke but you do it out there where it can't negatively affect the rest of us!

[armaghniac]

I'd be 100% alright with people who haven't had the vaccine living under restriction... no travel/work from home/click and collect with no entry into shops.

That would soon increase uptake and it's what the Govt should do!

Similar to smoking... yeah you can smoke but you do it out there where it can't negatively affect the rest of us!

There were people arguing that that they had a God given right to smoke over other people's food and drink. 

[trailer]

I agree there should be limits put on people who refuse to get vaccinated. But an Education programme is a better first step. If people can understand that A) we all need to be vaccinated in order for it to be effective and not just the vulnerable and B) that it is safe then hopefully that should win over a lot of people.

At this moment in time you can only travel to lots of countries if you have had a negative test in the 72 hours previous including Ireland. So there is no real jump from that to saying you can only come if you have had your vaccination. And anyways that's the case for lots of countries around the world already you need certain vaccinations so it isn't new.
But initially I'd be up for education as a first step and try to encourage as many people to get it voluntarily.

[Taylor]

To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...

You are a reasonable poster GOTB - perhaps you will answer.

Knowing that the uptake of the vaccination is key in getting lockdowns removed - if you give people the option (and support their right) to refuse the vaccine with no repercussions what is your alternative for us to get out of this shit show?

[trailer]

To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...

You are a reasonable poster GOTB - perhaps you will answer.

Knowing that the uptake of the vaccination is key in getting lockdowns removed - if you give people the option (and support their right) to refuse the vaccine with no repercussions what is your alternative for us to get out of this shit show?

Fundamental question for me as well. No one has an alternative.

[Rudi]

To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...

You are a reasonable poster GOTB - perhaps you will answer.

Knowing that the uptake of the vaccination is key in getting lockdowns removed - if you give people the option (and support their right) to refuse the vaccine with no repercussions what is your alternative for us to get out of this shit show?

Fundamental question for me as well. No one has an alternative.

The vaccine looks like the best option. The benefits of Vitamin D, something mentioned much earlier in the debate appear to help in the fight against Covid. Doesn't seem to be pushed by the WHO or Governments as of yet.

One of the key issues is the number of strains & mutations of the virus & if the current vaccines can account for all these variations. Getting an annual Covid Jab would be a difficult task for the developed world to under take let alone the undeveloped.

[Angelo]

Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.

Same people make a similar decision each winter about the flu jab. The elderly get it. Those with underlying health conditions get it. People who are susceptible to heavy flus get it. Most of us don't bother as we either haven't had a proper flu, or have had a proper flu so rarely, that the benefits to accrued are minimal.

As a species we are innately good at measuring risk.

——

Before some gobshite rounds on me for comparing flu with Covid, I am not. I am comparing the thought processes of people who seek inoculations.

Yeah but there's definitely a higher level of risk with covid. You only need to look at the numbers that have been in hospitals in recent months (a lot of whom are u60) - it might not kill a younger person but it could take a lot out of them. Also given this particular strain of virus is new and more infectious than flu there is also a much greater chance of getting it.

I would say there is a good chance flu is every bit as dangerous if not more dangerous to u40s than Covid is. We have had 6 deaths in that age bracket in around 60k positive cases in the past 12 months.

For the elderly and vulnerable it probably is more dangerous than flu at present but when you look at a bad winter flu season in 17/18 then that is not clear either.

[Angelo]

Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.

Same people make a similar decision each winter about the flu jab. The elderly get it. Those with underlying health conditions get it. People who are susceptible to heavy flus get it. Most of us don't bother as we either haven't had a proper flu, or have had a proper flu so rarely, that the benefits to accrued are minimal.

As a species we are innately good at measuring risk.

——

Before some gobshite rounds on me for comparing flu with Covid, I am not. I am comparing the thought processes of people who seek inoculations.

I can see the reasoning behind your point but the fact you've to add a disclaimer to the post about not comparing it to the flu says a lot about the thought process out there.

People do still think of it "as just a bad flu" - commonly mentioned from early on. That sentiment alone should resonate a lot to people. A bad flu isn't good at all and most people have never truly had it, myself included but have seen people with it and it's not easy. In a Flu season we rarely see it in scale we have with covid - January been a real eye opener for me as to how quickly it caught hold from what was a limited window to spread in December. The age profile of those admitted to ICU wasn't high.

Also worth looking at impact of long covid and the future impacts it will have. Re-infection as well another major unknown at this stage.

The argument of the vaccine affects are one thing but so too are the impact of the above regardless of now mild the virus impacted someone in the present time.

Lot of unknowns still in play.

A "bad flu" season in 17/18 saw more deaths in the month of January 2018 than we have had in any month since Covid came on this island.

I think you play down the seriousness of a bad flu.

[Angelo]

Some people making decision that they fit and healthy, which is what they are now, today.

In real time, that could change tomorrow for any number of reasons and they could land in a vulnerable person category. I'd like to give myself a chance if that were to happen and already have a vaccine in place for myself.

You can't force people to take one but you'd like to think they make informed decisions rather than working off hearsay.

Same people make a similar decision each winter about the flu jab. The elderly get it. Those with underlying health conditions get it. People who are susceptible to heavy flus get it. Most of us don't bother as we either haven't had a proper flu, or have had a proper flu so rarely, that the benefits to accrued are minimal.

As a species we are innately good at measuring risk.

——

Before some gobshite rounds on me for comparing flu with Covid, I am not. I am comparing the thought processes of people who seek inoculations.

Not only are you protecting yourself by getting the covid vaccine, you are protecting all your family, close friends, work colleagues and everyone you come into contact with. Also, if you're young, fit and healthy you might have an extremely low risk of death from covid but you still have a not insignificant risk of serious long term damage to your health or of getting long covid which is extremely debilitating. The vaccine will stop you having to worry about that happening to yourself or family.

This is just sheer nonsense, ignorance and misinformation.

What data have you to support that vaccines stop you contracting and transmitting the virus.

[GetOverTheBar]

To the people who are having doubts about the vaccine - or just downright refusing it.

You do know that if not enough people get it then the chances of it mutating into something else (and causing many many more lockdowns and deaths) is much higher - thats the way virus' work.

So if we just settle for some of the population getting vaccinated what is your solution to eradicate or reduce this virus?

Will you be content with more lockdowns when the time comes and it mutates?

I am just trying to see some logical rationale here and what your alternatives are.

Your fundamental point is incorrect.

The only verifiable upside of a vaccine is that it reduces severity of the virus. It does not reduce people cathcing it or transmitting it that has been proven yet. It does not stop the vaccine from mutating that been proven yet.

The whole premise of your argument is flawed.

For the likes of me, someone fit and healthy in the u40 category, there is no upside to the vaccine for me that would encourage me to take it? It's not going to save my life, all it might do is give me a rather milder dose of something that is not going to cause problems anyway. But yet there are a number of zealots here who demand people should not have free will to decide whether they want to get an injection or not and there are a lot of genuine grounds for people having reservations that people are ignoring. It's basically fascism that people are trying to force this vaccine on the general population.

I don't know if anyone will take that argument on with you Angelo. It's fair enough.

Look this is just going to be a life choice - You can't force people to have a vaccine, it's just immoral to suggest anyone take something they don't want to. That is the world, thankfully we live in.

I think we ran a poll here again recently and it was heavily in favour of those who would take the vaccine, but if you choose to not take the vaccine I would have no problem with you either. I'm 28, do I want to take the vaccine? Not particularly, will I take it if it gets me back to a decent life? Absolutely.

I do not agree with the forcing of the vaccine onto people via vaccine passports and this type of thing that is flying around. Surely there is a trade off to be made, if we have vaccinated the most vulnerable third of the population in Northern Ireland....isn't that what the aim was all along?

Will you wait till your children are old enough to make up their own decisions on the vaccines they should take at an early age?

You know that is not the same thing MTR2. It's an emotional viewpoint (and theoretical at this stage....!) so I can't give you an answer.

I'm not anti vaccination, I will take it surely. But I do not believe we should be allowed to force it onto others. It's not something I'll go to the grave arguing, but I don't feel we need to do this for something that statistically....you'll be be grand (if not 50+).

I realise that will upset those in the 50+ age bracket, but it's kind of a similar thing to hear if you are under and you know you'll be fine without a vaccination. We have locked down and put our lives on hold for whatever time it's been now to protect the vulnerable (and the NHS)....so now they are largely all sorted. Can we not go through the rest of the population who wants it....those that don't ?

You can't send them to the Gulags like Armaghniac proposes, that type of thinking can not and will not thankfully be taken seriously but are we suggesting we treat people who don't get vaccinated (for whatever reason) as outcasts? I mean that is ridiculous thinking, they might never get it in their lives anyway...

You are a reasonable poster GOTB - perhaps you will answer.

Knowing that the uptake of the vaccination is key in getting lockdowns removed - if you give people the option (and support their right) to refuse the vaccine with no repercussions what is your alternative for us to get out of this shit show?

I think we are looking at something akin to Matt Hancocks recent quip about it being something similar to the winter flu we'll have to deal with going forward.

Obviously I don't have all the answers, I don't think anyone does but it's an ever changing picture I suppose too.

I am going to take the vaccine, I would encourage others to take the vaccine, I would hope others in time will ease their fears on the vaccine and join in. It would be great. But right now, people are angry, they want to bite back against the Govt, maybe this type of thing is their way of doing so?

But we can't make people take it lads. You know that yourself. It's like the talk at the start of this thread about closing the airports....should it be done? Probably....Will it be done, no. As trailer said, education should be a big factor here - maybe in time to come things will ease their thoughts but you simply cannot make people take something they don't want to. It's not even a go. We do not live in that type of world, especially when people know they (majorly) will be ok from Covid (again, under 50 ish).

Addressing what the alternative point is, in the North we are not far off 500k of a 1.8mil population vaccinated and that is the 500k of the most needing and vulnerable. I don't think we need an alternative? Is this not really good news? We are going the right way. What is herd immunity, 70%? Shouldn't we get that without the need for "force"? Let the people come round in time, people are afraid - forcing the vaccine on them will not help that, nor will exiling them from life - the argument could be made legally, well we aren't going to be effected by Covid (statistically), why should we take the vaccine? Who wants to preside over that mess?

Personally I am as upbeat as I've been in a number of months regarding the situation, again, I'm thinking locally here really, foreign holidays I've accepted are out for this next year or so....maybe towards the end of the year possibly if all goes well. I think we are well on the way lads, some people just need more time to get used to the reality of the situation.