Tyrone game done and dusted, on to the next challenge.
While there were plenty on positives from that game, its also true that there's room for improvement. With that in mind, and Charlie Vernon's expected return, what is your preferred lineout for this game? I'm stuck in two minds between what I think our best team is, and the team from the last game that did alright and maybe only needs a bit of minor surgery. I'll go for this for now:
McEvoy
Mallon Toner Shannon
Donaghy McKeever A Kernan
Lavery Vernon
MOR T Kernan
McDonnell S Kernan
B Mallon Clarke
McEvoy is a better keeper than Hearty, full stop.
Want Donaghy out the field where he seems to have more influence (V Tyrone last week, V Donegal in 07). Toner has all the attributes to be a top FB in my eyes, best tackler on the team, very strong, decent in the air. Question is though, is it wise to be changing these guys around at this stage of the summer?
Lavery has earned a place in the team for now, and the returning Vernon has to play in his best position - midfield. There's been talk about slotting him in at CHF when he returns, that would be a mistake in my eyes. While its true that CHF is a problem area for us, there's no point taking some of our best players out of their best positions to solve the problem.
MOR and T Kernan are two great workers and will help clean up around the middle. Tony is a very good passer, an attribute lacking in the HF line the last day.
I'd like to see S Kernan start in a playmaking partnership with Stevie. Stevie's playmaker role has worked at times this year, but failed largely the last day due to his isolation. He ended up as the only link man between defence and the FF line too often against Tyrone, leading to him being frequently out numbered and either muscled off the ball or forced wide and away from goal. S Kernan is another terrific passer, who is capable of providing great service to the FF line.
That brings us to Clarke's partner inside. While there are numerous young contenders for this position - Forker, Henderson, Kevin O'Rourke - perhaps we are ignoring the best corner forward (apart from McDonnell obviously) that we have in our ranks: Brian Mallon.
Another big question is the opposition. Apparently, we don't find out their identity until the 21st. Possibles include:
1. Fermanagh
2. Down
3. Leitrim
4. Tipperary
5. Waterford
6. Longford
7. Carlow
8. Offaly
9. London
10. Monaghan
11. Dublin/Meath
12. Donegal/Antrim
13. Kildare/Wexford
14. Louth/Laois
15. Westmeath/Wicklow
For me, out of these teams the only ones I'd be anyway worried about meeting are Monaghan, Fermanagh and Dublin/Meath. That said, I'd prefer to avoid Ulster opposition altogether as part of the appeal of taking the qualifier route is avoiding these claustrophobic, gritty provincial battles. Wouldn't mind a pop at Wexford, it would be a good opportunity to well and truly banish the demons of last year.
Jesus when you see some of the possible opposition here, its not a disaster being beat in the first round of your provincial c;ship ! For teams like Armagh, Fermanagh, Monaghan and possibly Dublin. Kildare or Laois, there isnt much to fear if you can avoid each other.
The only difference I would make to the team you lined out is to exclude MOR, yes, I know he's a hard worker and he puts his head in some dangerous places all for the love of the jersey, I feel his lack of pace showed last week, he got roasted by both his marker and Quinn. In his place I would have Duffy. Duffy worked his arse off against Tyrone and in my mind deserves the place more than MOR.
I also agree that we want to avoid Monaghan, Fermanagh and Dublin/Meath, the rest I would be comfortable about beating. Scalping a couple of teams would do the guys making their Championship debuts some experience and some needed confidence.
I think a lot has been made of that one run by Justin McMahon when he left MOR for dead. McMahon is a fantastic athlete, who is capable of doing that to manys an intercounty footballer. Can't think of any other occasions in that game, or others this year, when MOR was particularly caught for pace. While he didn't have his best game against Tyrone, I think his very good form in the last 3 or 4 league games keeps him in the team for the time being for me.
Quinn came from about 20 yards behind MOR at one point, dispossessed him, hammered him in a sprint while he was soloing up the pitch and as far as I remember he scored on that occasion too.
I have been a MOR fan myself for a number of years,, last Sunday confirmed it for me though. The Armagh team don't need him at this point in time, not when the likes of Charlie Vernon are in and around the middle to pick up breaking ball. I have often said that MOR is the best at what he does and he is, he just hasn't got the pace any more that's needed, as much as I hate to say that about the man. I have no umbrage against him or any of his brothers, in fact I recognise that the ORourkes have done a lot for Armagh football. I wouldn't get rid of him from the panel altogether, he could still have a part to play though I wouldn't give him the full 70 minutes.
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
I have thought long and hard about this and honestly, that would be the only change I would make to AFS's team. I wouldn't have started him against Tyrone either, I think I said that somewhere here as well but anyway I have always recognised the work the man has done for Armagh
I have a feeling that Armagh will be drawn against either Monaghan or Down. I`d love to see Down v Armagh in Newry.
Quote from: Trevor Hill on June 06, 2009, 10:02:17 PM
I have a feeling that Armagh will be drawn against either Monaghan or Down. I`d love to see Down v Armagh in Newry.
I've heard a few Armagh people say they'd love to get Down, but I definitely wouldn't. Would be a great atmosphere in Newry but I could see Down taking us. If they can beat Tyrone is the Marshes they can beat anyone there.
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on June 06, 2009, 09:57:55 PM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
I have thought long and hard about this and honestly, that would be the only change I would make to AFS's team. I wouldn't have started him against Tyrone either, I think I said that somewhere here as well but anyway I have always recognised the work the man has done for Armagh
Don't agree with you, but at least you've offered a few considered reasons why your not picking him. This is in stark contrast to some of the eejits that I heard last Sunday and that I've read on this forum and others, who have the brilliant 'get him off the team, he's not worth a shite' argument.
If we were to get the dream draw it would be the team with a poor defence, an unproven midfield and a vastly over rated forward line against the unpredictable Down ;)
I honestly couldn't see Down beating Armagh at the minute, but as I said on another thread it is the only result that will save Ross Carr's job.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on June 06, 2009, 09:00:26 PM
Jesus when you see some of the possible opposition here, its not a disaster being beat in the first round of your provincial c;ship ! For teams like Armagh, Fermanagh, Monaghan and possibly Dublin. Kildare or Laois, there isnt much to fear if you can avoid each other.
Still always best to win your provincial match. Tyrone have to win 2 games to make the quarter finals, Armagh have to win 4. I'd prefer not to play Down though I'd certainly fancy us to beat them. Would most likely be a tight game though.
Would be nice to see a championship match at the Athletic Grounds. Would be our first home game in the championship since 95 or 96?
some people on here are clueless. MOR was not marking Quinn for a start. Quinn was marking Kevin O Rourke. It was McMahon who picked up MOR. Also the point of Tony Kernan picking up ball around the middle is mad. There was one stage Hearty was about to take a quick kick out to him but he put a hand up to refuse the pass. He is a scoring forward and not a break ball winner.
Dropping MOR may also be harsh, Im not a massive fan but he brings much needed break ball winning qualities. I think the problem is playing O Rourke, Mallon and Duffy all at once. Mallon used to be a great impact sub and I think coming from the bench is where he can offer most to Armagh. Agree about McEvoy, Hearty was a disaster the last day. McDonnell did get a lot of ball against Tyrone but could not get back close enough to the goals to score when collecting ball 50 or 60 yards away from goal. I thought Kevin O Rourke showed well for the ball and scored a great point even though it was not given. He has a good vision also. Armagh lacked a real playmaker and I dont have anyone else in mind other than S Kernan. I was sceptical of Shannon and Lavery going into the Tyrone game but they played well and deserve another go.
I would be inclined to start this 15, with mcdonnell and clarke as a pair close to goal backed up by K O Rourke and T Kernan, with MOR helping around midfield and S Kernan linking the play. Shannon and Donaghy could be switched, defensive positions go out the window in Peter's teams usually with defenders lined up to mark specific players regardless of where they line up.
McEvoy
Mallon Toner Donaghy
A Kernan McKeever Shannon
Vernon Lavery
M O Rourke S Kernan
T Kernan K O Rourke
McDonnell Clarke
Quote from: qub la la la on June 06, 2009, 10:33:18 PM
some people on here are clueless. MOR was not marking Quinn for a start. Quinn was marking Kevin O Rourke. It was McMahon who picked up MOR.
Just to nail this on the head, I didn't say MOR was marking Quinn. I said Quinn roasted him in dispossessing him and taking a score from there and that's a fact. I don't like admitting Tyrone ones are better than any Armagh man but I am not going to close my eyes to any man's performance on the day.
I'm pretty sure Cork/Kerry has to go into the qualifers too
Quote from: illdecide on June 07, 2009, 12:22:35 AM
I'm pretty sure Cork/Kerry has to go into the qualifers too
Aye, round 2
Really don't see a starting place for Tony Kernan. With Stevie's free taking improving the sole reason for him starting is nullified. I would play David McKenna alongside Vernon and Lavery in the middle with Vernon and himself given licence to carry the ball forward. I know he's unproven at county level but for one reason or another he hasn't been given a chance to prove or disprove his inclusion and I would give him a chance as he has potential.
Agree with the posters who don't want an Ulster team with Monaghan being the nightmare draw.
Keep Stevie out of the HF forward area it's a woeful idea, surely it may work - on ocassion, but have we got another forward of Stevie's class to play alongside Clarke? Defintely not, but we certainly have players who can play the playmaker role as equally ineffectively has Stevie has done. The Clarke/MCDonnell partnership has worked for the best part of a decade, why change it now.
Draw against Waterford or the like would be nice as we shouldn't have to even consider risking Vernon for another while.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 07, 2009, 11:07:01 AM
Draw against Waterford or the like would be nice as we shouldn't have to even consider risking Vernon for another while.
dont think Vernon would be risked at all. If he's not fit to play, he wont. there's another month to go, would be expecting him back unless he hasnt healed right at all.
I dunno lads i think Stevie might be alright in the half foward line, as people have said he doesn't take anyone on anymore and roaming around the 40 might be better for Armagh with Clarke, Forker and an other. The only think about this is either O Rourke or Mallon would have to be sacrafised for this to happen as our 3rd midfielder will prob line out in the other half forward position
Stevie needs to be in the full forward line as he only seems to be effective when close to goal with defenders hanging off him. Give him the ball in space and he slows everything down. Brian Mallon won't be dropped. He's started every game this year. Come to think of it can't see MOR getting dropped either for reasons outlined by everyone else. Agree about switching the goalie and Donaghy in half back. Do you ever wonder why Paul Courtney never gets a chance?
Quote from: BroJolly on June 07, 2009, 07:51:21 PM
Stevie needs to be in the full forward line as he only seems to be effective when close to goal with defenders hanging off him. Give him the ball in space and he slows everything down. Brian Mallon won't be dropped. He's started every game this year. Come to think of it can't see MOR getting dropped either for reasons outlined by everyone else. Agree about switching the goalie and Donaghy in half back. Do you ever wonder why Paul Courtney never gets a chance?
agree stevie needs to be close to goal. mallon could best serve armagh's cause coming off the bench but prob will stay on the first 15. MOR is a certain starter barring injury. Dont know what the craic is with Courtney but his lack of game time for armagh will rule him out in championship I would imagine. He would be the same mould as MOR or Duffy, not going to kick many scores if playing at half forward and is not going to get into the middle of the field at this stage.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 07, 2009, 11:07:01 AM
Keep Stevie out of the HF forward area it's a woeful idea, surely it may work - on ocassion, but have we got another forward of Stevie's class to play alongside Clarke? Defintely not, but we certainly have players who can play the playmaker role as equally ineffectively has Stevie has done. The Clarke/MCDonnell partnership has worked for the best part of a decade, why change it now.
Draw against Waterford or the like would be nice as we shouldn't have to even consider risking Vernon for another while.
Benny don't think it's a case of the partnership not working, it was born out of Croker last year. There's no point in your two best players standing at one end of the ground scratching their holes with an ineffective HF line struggling to get the ball into them. Stevie plays a lot of his club football out the field and in some of the League games the experiment worked quite well. Yes , in an ideal world the two boys would still be in the FF line but with our dearth of creative HF play over the past number of seasons something had to give.
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
Stew,
He cant score, he cant pass, he cant run. Id sooner see his older brother (aidan or cathal) in that half forward line, at least they have some ability.
No use being as brave as a lion winning the dirty ball and then either dropping it or giving it away. Sorry not an option at 11 not today or tomorrow or ever.
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
Stew,
He cant score, he cant pass, he cant run. Id sooner see his older brother (aidan or cathal) in that half forward line, at least they have some ability.
No use being as brave as a lion winning the dirty ball and then either dropping it or giving it away. Sorry not an option at 11 not today or tomorrow or ever.
Very harsh there, infact I would say it is bullsh1t
Few of his passes went awol last day out, but he can work on this. I would be more worried if he wasnt winning any ball.
IMHO, SK would compliment him in the HF line
Quote from: illdecide on June 07, 2009, 12:22:35 AM
I'm pretty sure Cork/Kerry has to go into the qualifers too
They get a bye to the second round.
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
Stew,
He cant score, he cant pass, he cant run. Id sooner see his older brother (aidan or cathal) in that half forward line, at least they have some ability.
No use being as brave as a lion winning the dirty ball and then either dropping it or giving it away. Sorry not an option at 11 not today or tomorrow or ever.
Can't score, i'll give you that, but anyone who thinks he can;t pass hasn't actually watched him play and is just falling in line with common misconception. You may point to last week, which is fair enough, but why base him on one league game? Last year when we whipped Dublin in the league I don't think he wasted ONE ball. He is a very good passer of the ball.
As for the can't run, nobody seems to take into account that he was down minutes before McMahon roasted him with an injury and considering the achilles problems he has had all season, I would say that played a part.
By all means argue that he shouldn't be included, but don;t come out with bullshit.
Quote from: corn02 on June 08, 2009, 09:54:06 AM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
Stew,
He cant score, he cant pass, he cant run. Id sooner see his older brother (aidan or cathal) in that half forward line, at least they have some ability.
No use being as brave as a lion winning the dirty ball and then either dropping it or giving it away. Sorry not an option at 11 not today or tomorrow or ever.
Can't score, i'll give you that, but anyone who thinks he can;t pass hasn't actually watched him play and is just falling in line with common misconception. You may point to last week, which is fair enough, but why base him on one league game? Last year when we whipped Dublin in the league I don't think he wasted ONE ball. He is a very good passer of the ball.
As for the can't run, nobody seems to take into account that he was down minutes before McMahon roasted him with an injury and considering the achilles problems he has had all season, I would say that played a part.
By all means argue that he shouldn't be included, but don;t come out with bullshit.
Ah save me the dromintee tears, a good league game against a shite Dublin team, is that the criteria for a county starting place. Jesus we have slipped. The guy is not good enough (and i dont take any joy in saying it given his efforts over the years) How many points has he scored in his career in an Armagh jersey. How many teams win all Irelands with a CHF that cant pass or score ? None is the answer.
Case dismissed.
Quote from: full back on June 08, 2009, 08:40:06 AM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
Stew,
He cant score, he cant pass, he cant run. Id sooner see his older brother (aidan or cathal) in that half forward line, at least they have some ability.
No use being as brave as a lion winning the dirty ball and then either dropping it or giving it away. Sorry not an option at 11 not today or tomorrow or ever.
Very harsh there, infact I would say it is bullsh1t
Few of his passes went awol last day out, but he can work on this. I would be more worried if he wasnt winning any ball.
IMHO, SK would compliment him in the HF line
SK would compliment him on the bench
Your last two posts show you have no knowledge of the game and ae a bit of a clown.
Case dismissed.
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 10:20:32 AM
Ah save me the dromintee tears, a good league game against a shite Dublin team, is that the criteria for a county starting place. Jesus we have slipped. The guy is not good enough (and i dont take any joy in saying it given his efforts over the years) How many points has he scored in his career in an Armagh jersey. How many teams win all Irelands with a CHF that cant pass or score ? None is the answer.
Case dismissed.
Wouldn't consider dropping Martin O'Rourke. I would have taken him off earlier against Tyrone right enough but he's had more good games for Armagh than bad and deserves another chance. We'd be far too lightweight in the half forward line without him and given the importance of winning breaking ball in the modern game without Marty O'Rourke we'd be at a huge disadvantage. Basically his role in the team should be to win breaking ball and lay the ball off simply and to a man in space if possible.
Quote from: mackers on June 07, 2009, 09:07:02 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on June 07, 2009, 11:07:01 AM
Keep Stevie out of the HF forward area it's a woeful idea, surely it may work - on ocassion, but have we got another forward of Stevie's class to play alongside Clarke? Defintely not, but we certainly have players who can play the playmaker role as equally ineffectively has Stevie has done. The Clarke/MCDonnell partnership has worked for the best part of a decade, why change it now.
Draw against Waterford or the like would be nice as we shouldn't have to even consider risking Vernon for another while.
Benny don't think it's a case of the partnership not working, it was born out of Croker last year. There's no point in your two best players standing at one end of the ground scratching their holes with an ineffective HF line struggling to get the ball into them. Stevie plays a lot of his club football out the field and in some of the League games the experiment worked quite well. Yes , in an ideal world the two boys would still be in the FF line but with our dearth of creative HF play over the past number of seasons something had to give.
Have to say I agree with mackers on this one. Think Stevie gives a creativity at half forward which we lack otherwise. Also he maybe isn't offering the same threat closer to goals that he was 4 or 5 year ago. No reason why he can't be switched in an out though, he's the man you'd want in the goal scoring positions late in any game.
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
Stew,
He cant score, he cant pass, he cant run. Id sooner see his older brother (aidan or cathal) in that half forward line, at least they have some ability.
No use being as brave as a lion winning the dirty ball and then either dropping it or giving it away. Sorry not an option at 11 not today or tomorrow or ever.
Setting up 1-2 against the All Ireland champions is a pretty good going for a guy who apparently can't pass ::)
Quote from: AFS on June 08, 2009, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
Stew,
He cant score, he cant pass, he cant run. Id sooner see his older brother (aidan or cathal) in that half forward line, at least they have some ability.
No use being as brave as a lion winning the dirty ball and then either dropping it or giving it away. Sorry not an option at 11 not today or tomorrow or ever.
Setting up 1-2 against the All Ireland champions is a pretty good going for a guy who apparently can't pass ::)
Oh jesus, is this where we are at, setting up 1-2?
No harm to the guy but he's a poor mans Brian Dooher. In fact thats an insult to Dooher.
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 03:04:03 PM
Quote from: AFS on June 08, 2009, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
Stew,
He cant score, he cant pass, he cant run. Id sooner see his older brother (aidan or cathal) in that half forward line, at least they have some ability.
No use being as brave as a lion winning the dirty ball and then either dropping it or giving it away. Sorry not an option at 11 not today or tomorrow or ever.
Setting up 1-2 against the All Ireland champions is a pretty good going for a guy who apparently can't pass ::)
Oh jesus, is this where we are at, setting up 1-2?
No harm to the guy but he's a poor mans Brian Dooher. In fact thats an insult to Dooher.
You claimed he can't pass. He provided the final pass for 3 of our 6 scores from play against Tyrone. The stat would suggest he was the most effective passer on the team the last day out.
No harm to ya, but you come across as a bullshitter. You have a crap, baseless, blanket argument.
Quote from: AFS on June 08, 2009, 03:36:28 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 03:04:03 PM
Quote from: AFS on June 08, 2009, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
Stew,
He cant score, he cant pass, he cant run. Id sooner see his older brother (aidan or cathal) in that half forward line, at least they have some ability.
No use being as brave as a lion winning the dirty ball and then either dropping it or giving it away. Sorry not an option at 11 not today or tomorrow or ever.
Setting up 1-2 against the All Ireland champions is a pretty good going for a guy who apparently can't pass ::)
Oh jesus, is this where we are at, setting up 1-2?
No harm to the guy but he's a poor mans Brian Dooher. In fact thats an insult to Dooher.
You claimed he can't pass. He provided the final pass for 3 of our 6 scores from play against Tyrone. The stat would suggest he was the most effective passer on the team the last day out.
No harm to ya, but you come across as a bullshitter. You have a crap, baseless, blanket argument.
Maybe but my eyes didnt decieve me. I never seen more fumbling, dropped balls etc. He's shite. Call a spade a spade. We will not win anything with MOR at CHF or even in that team.
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 03:44:06 PM
Quote from: AFS on June 08, 2009, 03:36:28 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 03:04:03 PM
Quote from: AFS on June 08, 2009, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
Stew,
He cant score, he cant pass, he cant run. Id sooner see his older brother (aidan or cathal) in that half forward line, at least they have some ability.
No use being as brave as a lion winning the dirty ball and then either dropping it or giving it away. Sorry not an option at 11 not today or tomorrow or ever.
Setting up 1-2 against the All Ireland champions is a pretty good going for a guy who apparently can't pass ::)
Oh jesus, is this where we are at, setting up 1-2?
No harm to the guy but he's a poor mans Brian Dooher. In fact thats an insult to Dooher.
You claimed he can't pass. He provided the final pass for 3 of our 6 scores from play against Tyrone. The stat would suggest he was the most effective passer on the team the last day out.
No harm to ya, but you come across as a bullshitter. You have a crap, baseless, blanket argument.
Maybe but my eyes didnt decieve me. I never seen more fumbling, dropped balls etc. He's shite. Call a spade a spade. We will not win anything with MOR at CHF or even in that team.
Look sometimes Marty shoulders a bit hard on the field and as a Dromintee man I apologise if he left you hurting.
The only thing that hurts me is when i see players not capable of representing Armagh being left to embarrass themselves.
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 04:02:49 PM
The only thing that hurts me is when i see players not capable of representing Armagh being left to embarrass themselves.
Speaking of embarrasing themselves....
This is getting tiresome..........
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 04:02:49 PM
The only thing that hurts me is when i see players not capable of representing Armagh being left to embarrass themselves.
name your ideal selection for armagh's first round qualifier then haveaharp. you sound like a clones beer garden specialist.
Would go along with AFS's line up, though would like to see McKenna tried at half forward/midfield, and a few positional switches with McDonnell closer to goals.
McEvoy
Mallon Toner Shannon
Donaghy McKeever Kernan
Vernon Lavery
MOR S Kernan McKenna
McDonnell Clarke Mallon
Toner would bring a lot of physicality to the back line and would free Donaghy up to play wing back. He has the defensive and attacking balance to his game to make a great wing back.
I honestly don't know how McKenna would fare, but i'd like to see him given a bit of game time to try him out - bring him on as a sub and let's see. Not sure about S Kernan either but i would tell him to hold the CHF position and hit McDonnell and Clarke with the right balls (i.e not the hit and hope efforts they've been getting from others). Stephen's simply not going to win too much of his own ball, so we would be relying on others like MOR to get their possession and offload to the likes of him who can pick out the runs of Clarke and McDonnell. All this would imply certain players being given specific roles in the team - something that doesn't come across as being the case at the minute imo. Mallon could drop a bit deeper but has to get in to support McDonnell and Clarke at the right times. The same applies to the likes of S Kernan and McKenna and Vernon who are well able to get forward to help create space and open up defences. The likes of MOR and Lavery could hold the middle. I'd instruct the two wing backs, Kernan and Donaghy, to make the runs to give an option for the likes of Vernon and MOR who can win the breaks round midfield - we need that type of movement from the halfback line. Both those players have the mobility to get forward, run at people, take them on and create space for others. When this happens, other players need to know to drop back a little to cover for them.
The likes of Forker, K O'Rourke and Henderson are other options in the half forwards or full forward lines.
Quote from: qub la la la on June 08, 2009, 11:00:18 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 04:02:49 PM
The only thing that hurts me is when i see players not capable of representing Armagh being left to embarrass themselves.
name your ideal selection for armagh's first round qualifier then haveaharp. you sound like a clones beer garden specialist.
In my many visits to Clones ive never had a drink. So ive no idea what you are on about. Typical though, my view is that MOR is not good enough and im getting shit left right and centre. I thought this was a discussion board.
Problem area is still the half forward line and its lack of scoring threat.....I would still play MOR simply because he will win ball and is a tireless worker for the team.
SK far too inconsistent, and Clarke and McDonnell need to pull together and realise it's a team game.......Stevie Wonder could see that they were not pulling together in Tyrone game.
Have the management the respect of the senior players on team/squad?.......I very much doubt it.
Anyway onwards and upwards.....Meath in the Qualifiers
Quote from: haveaharp on June 09, 2009, 08:56:09 AM
Quote from: qub la la la on June 08, 2009, 11:00:18 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 04:02:49 PM
The only thing that hurts me is when i see players not capable of representing Armagh being left to embarrass themselves.
name your ideal selection for armagh's first round qualifier then haveaharp. you sound like a clones beer garden specialist.
In my many visits to Clones ive never had a drink. So ive no idea what you are on about. Typical though, my view is that MOR is not good enough and im getting shit left right and centre. I thought this was a discussion board.
That wasn't your view though was it? You said he was shite, an embarrasement etc, etc, which automatically negates any reasonable discussion.
My team for what it's worth:
McEvoy
Mallon Toner Shannon
Aaron Donaghy McKeever
Lavery Vernon
Marty SK Mallon
McDonnell Clarke TK 9slips in for frees)
Quote from: corn02 on June 09, 2009, 09:13:38 AM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 09, 2009, 08:56:09 AM
Quote from: qub la la la on June 08, 2009, 11:00:18 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 04:02:49 PM
The only thing that hurts me is when i see players not capable of representing Armagh being left to embarrass themselves.
name your ideal selection for armagh's first round qualifier then haveaharp. you sound like a clones beer garden specialist.
In my many visits to Clones ive never had a drink. So ive no idea what you are on about. Typical though, my view is that MOR is not good enough and im getting shit left right and centre. I thought this was a discussion board.
That wasn't your view though was it? You said he was shite, an embarrasement etc, etc, which automatically negates any reasonable discussion.
My team for what it's worth:
McEvoy
Mallon Toner Shannon
Aaron Donaghy McKeever
Lavery Vernon
Marty SK Mallon
McDonnell Clarke TK 9slips in for frees)
And that view hasnt changed, he isnt good enough, he is shite, and it was embarrasing that he was left on so long against Tyrone. If he is our best option in the half forward line then we are well and truly fooked.
Why change Donaghy from full back?
It's the first time we've had a pacey full back in years! Toner is a great worker, wins a lot of break ball & is a fine tackler... midfield is his position!
Hearty (Last chance saloon, only because I think McEvoy would be done on a high ball!)
Mallon Donaghy Shannon / Finn Mo
AK McKeever Duffy
Toner Lavery
Vernon
Mallon SK MOR
Stevie Ronan
I think the emphasis has to be on wee Brian, SK, Vernon to get forward! Duffy & AK too...
With Toner fit to hold the line when they do.
Big McKenna on for Lavery with 20 till go to freshen 'er up.
Then Forker / Henderson to be thrown into the full forward line if / when MOR tires...
Job's a gud'n & Sam is on his way! ;) 8)
Quote from: haveaharp on June 09, 2009, 09:19:22 AM
Quote from: corn02 on June 09, 2009, 09:13:38 AM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 09, 2009, 08:56:09 AM
Quote from: qub la la la on June 08, 2009, 11:00:18 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 04:02:49 PM
The only thing that hurts me is when i see players not capable of representing Armagh being left to embarrass themselves.
name your ideal selection for armagh's first round qualifier then haveaharp. you sound like a clones beer garden specialist.
In my many visits to Clones ive never had a drink. So ive no idea what you are on about. Typical though, my view is that MOR is not good enough and im getting shit left right and centre. I thought this was a discussion board.
That wasn't your view though was it? You said he was shite, an embarrasement etc, etc, which automatically negates any reasonable discussion.
My team for what it's worth:
McEvoy
Mallon Toner Shannon
Aaron Donaghy McKeever
Lavery Vernon
Marty SK Mallon
McDonnell Clarke TK 9slips in for frees)
And that view hasnt changed, he isnt good enough, he is shite, and it was embarrasing that he was left on so long against Tyrone. If he is our best option in the half forward line then we are well and truly fooked.
You still havent named the team you think should line on in the next game? or do you just have a personal issue with O Rourke.
For all the argument on the last couple of pages over marty orourkes credentials he starts for his club alot of people on here have s kernan down in the team they would start for armagh, hes not even a cert to start for cross week in week out when they are lining out your strongest team.
The replies will probably be about how good cross are and the strength and depth they have but in my opinion its simple you dont start for your clubs biggest games you dont start for your county. Marty in an instrumental player for dromintee in championship. S kernan is a dispensible one.
Quote from: the scenic route on June 11, 2009, 11:27:22 AM
For all the argument on the last couple of pages over marty orourkes credentials he starts for his club alot of people on here have s kernan down in the team they would start for armagh, hes not even a cert to start for cross week in week out when they are lining out your strongest team.
The replies will probably be about how good cross are and the strength and depth they have but in my opinion its simple you dont start for your clubs biggest games you dont start for your county. Marty in an instrumental player for dromintee in championship. S kernan is a dispensible one.
If John McEntee was available for the county... he's be in!
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 03:44:06 PM
Quote from: AFS on June 08, 2009, 03:36:28 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 03:04:03 PM
Quote from: AFS on June 08, 2009, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
Stew,
He cant score, he cant pass, he cant run. Id sooner see his older brother (aidan or cathal) in that half forward line, at least they have some ability.
No use being as brave as a lion winning the dirty ball and then either dropping it or giving it away. Sorry not an option at 11 not today or tomorrow or ever.
Setting up 1-2 against the All Ireland champions is a pretty good going for a guy who apparently can't pass ::)
Oh jesus, is this where we are at, setting up 1-2?
No harm to the guy but he's a poor mans Brian Dooher. In fact thats an insult to Dooher.
You claimed he can't pass. He provided the final pass for 3 of our 6 scores from play against Tyrone. The stat would suggest he was the most effective passer on the team the last day out.
No harm to ya, but you come across as a bullshitter. You have a crap, baseless, blanket argument.
Maybe but my eyes didnt decieve me. I never seen more fumbling, dropped balls etc. He's shite. Call a spade a spade. We will not win anything with MOR at CHF or even in that team.
quotes like this are what are annoying other posters. yes, this is a discussion board and if you dont think that mor is up to the standard fair enough you should state this e.g. "i dont rate mor i dont think he is good enough". calling someone who has dedicated so much time and effort to armagh over the last number of years an embarrassment and "shite" doesnt reflect very well on you asa poster/supporter. granted mor didnt have a great game against tyrone though he brings something to the half forward line that we dont have. someone with the ability to win breaking ball. kerry= galvin, tyrone=dooher for this role. haveaharp who would you suggest for the role?
qualifiers
mc evoy
mallon toner shannon
donaghey mckeever ak
lavery charlie
mor sk duffy
mallon
stevy clarke
would like to see mallon playing close to goal like he did originally when he originally started playing for armagh. mor and dufy to do the donkey work and sk to provide the bullets.
Hear Armagh walloped Leitrim in a behind closed doors game in the Athletic Grounds on Thursday night, score ended up something like 1-16 to 0-7, played 2 halfs of 40 mins ew, with any amount of subs used.
A couple of random suggestions;
>McEvoy instead of Hearty who I felt lost a lot of credibility V Tyrone. McEvoy suspect under high ball? Possibly, but so is Hearty; think Donegal in Ballybofey.
>Donaghy has proved himself at FB; leave him there.
>MOR must start.
>Surely TK is the most reliable left wing free kicker we have; free takers are essential in the modern game and this should buy him his place.
>I liked the look of S Forker when he came on V Tyrone; he caught, turned and pointed and that's good enough for starters.
>I always had faith in James Lavery and after the last game I'm convinced he must start.
>Brian Mallon should be freed of the shackles of having to defend and be allowed to do what he does best,ie create and take scores
>R Henderson/K O'Rourke have supporting roles to fill.
>Kieran Toner @ MF.
>Our HF line is our biggest problem area and I'm not sure what the solution is!
Benny, what's the update on Vernon? Heard last night that he has no chance of making the first round and will do very well to play in July at all should we progress.
He was up training with Harps last night. He's due back in full contact training v soon, 4th July weekend could be early for him. I'd guess the draw might play a part in his/management's decision. Would be on the bench at least i'd imagine anyway.
Run down on match from good observor, team was -
McEvoy
Mallon Donaghy P Kernan
O'Rourke McKeever A Kernan
O'Neill O'Neill
Duffy Forker T Kernan
McDonnell Clarke Feeney
3 or 4 changes from armagh for last 15 mins apparently - b mallon, henderson, mcclelland and moriarty but wholesale changes throughout by leitrim
Observor says superb showing from gareth o'neill at midfield. good performances from Mallon, O'Rourke, Mckeever, clarke and Feeney.
poor performances from paul kernan and forker.
Strong enough looking team. good to see McEvoy in goals - hopefully that points to a change in selection there
Quote from: bennydorano on June 13, 2009, 12:18:09 PM
He was up training with Harps last night. He's due back in full contact training v soon, 4th July weekend could be early for him. I'd guess the draw might play a part in his/management's decision. Would be on the bench at least i'd imagine anyway.
he was doing some training the other night in the athelic grounds!
How the F**K did that Wexford team beat us last year...Never seen worse tonight against Kildare :'(
Quote from: illdecide on June 13, 2009, 09:40:58 PM
How the F**K did that Wexford team beat us last year...Never seen worse tonight against Kildare :'(
Maybe if you had given Grimley the job as manager you would have beaten them.
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on June 09, 2009, 09:38:45 AM
Why change Donaghy from full back?
It's the first time we've had a pacey full back in years! Toner is a great worker, wins a lot of break ball & is a fine tackler... midfield is his position!
Hearty (Last chance saloon, only because I think McEvoy would be done on a high ball!)
Mallon Donaghy Shannon / Finn Mo
AK McKeever Duffy
Toner Lavery
Vernon
Mallon SK MOR
Stevie Ronan
I think the emphasis has to be on wee Brian, SK, Vernon to get forward! Duffy & AK too...
With Toner fit to hold the line when they do.
Big McKenna on for Lavery with 20 till go to freshen 'er up.
Then Forker / Henderson to be thrown into the full forward line if / when MOR tires...
Job's a gud'n & Sam is on his way! ;) 8)
yea coz hearty is safe under the high ball!
Quote from: Carbery on June 13, 2009, 10:10:36 PM
Quote from: illdecide on June 13, 2009, 09:40:58 PM
How the F**K did that Wexford team beat us last year...Never seen worse tonight against Kildare :'(
Maybe if you had given Grimley the job as manager you would have beaten them.
Well maybe if i was in charge he would have got the job ;)
Quote from: illdecide on June 13, 2009, 09:40:58 PM
How the F**K did that Wexford team beat us last year...Never seen worse tonight against Kildare :'(
Very true, but the Cork Kerry result also puts things in perspective too, seemed to be an over reaction among Armagh supporters after Cork beat us in the League, they're a hell of a team.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 13, 2009, 12:18:09 PM
He was up training with Harps last night. He's due back in full contact training v soon, 4th July weekend could be early for him. I'd guess the draw might play a part in his/management's decision. Would be on the bench at least i'd imagine anyway.
Good to hear, hopefully he'll get a chance to shine in late July/August...........
Quote from: pearseog on June 14, 2009, 01:28:58 AM
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on June 09, 2009, 09:38:45 AM
Why change Donaghy from full back?
It's the first time we've had a pacey full back in years! Toner is a great worker, wins a lot of break ball & is a fine tackler... midfield is his position!
Hearty (Last chance saloon, only because I think McEvoy would be done on a high ball!)
Mallon Donaghy Shannon / Finn Mo
AK McKeever Duffy
Toner Lavery
Vernon
Mallon SK MOR
Stevie Ronan
I think the emphasis has to be on wee Brian, SK, Vernon to get forward! Duffy & AK too...
With Toner fit to hold the line when they do.
Big McKenna on for Lavery with 20 till go to freshen 'er up.
Then Forker / Henderson to be thrown into the full forward line if / when MOR tires...
Job's a gud'n & Sam is on his way! ;) 8)
yea coz hearty is safe under the high ball!
Fermanagh and Donegal spring to mind. ::)
Hearty dealt with several high balls versus Tyrone... I don't think McEvoy would have reached.
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on June 15, 2009, 07:53:00 AM
Hearty dealt with several high balls versus Tyrone... I don't think McEvoy would have reached.
And looked as shakey as hell under each, he also gifted Tyrone a point by fumbling about with the ball instead of just clearing it.
Quote from: jimbo on June 15, 2009, 08:30:36 AM
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on June 15, 2009, 07:53:00 AM
Hearty dealt with several high balls versus Tyrone... I don't think McEvoy would have reached.
And looked as shakey as hell under each, he also gifted Tyrone a point by fumbling about with the ball instead of just clearing it.
The fact of the matter is - hearty makes mistakes, good enough goalkeeper but when you have a player who keeps getting his jersey after making needless mistakes then something is seriously wrong as he needs to get the message that there are plenty of other good goalkeepers in the county
Quote from: charlie stubbs on June 11, 2009, 07:36:34 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 03:44:06 PM
Quote from: AFS on June 08, 2009, 03:36:28 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 03:04:03 PM
Quote from: AFS on June 08, 2009, 02:26:22 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 08, 2009, 08:33:00 AM
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2009, 09:48:16 PM
Youse cant be serious about dropping MOR, I saw the game and that was as poorly as I have ever seen him play however he is very important to Armagh and one poor game should not have him dropped, he is too important from several perspectives.
1. The man is inspirational, as brave a player as you will ever find anywhere.
2. he does a lot of the dirty work and is a hard man to beat.
3. He is a workhorse whose distribution is usually very good.
4. he has a ton of experience on a very inexperienced side.
Stew,
He cant score, he cant pass, he cant run. Id sooner see his older brother (aidan or cathal) in that half forward line, at least they have some ability.
No use being as brave as a lion winning the dirty ball and then either dropping it or giving it away. Sorry not an option at 11 not today or tomorrow or ever.
Setting up 1-2 against the All Ireland champions is a pretty good going for a guy who apparently can't pass ::)
Oh jesus, is this where we are at, setting up 1-2?
No harm to the guy but he's a poor mans Brian Dooher. In fact thats an insult to Dooher.
You claimed he can't pass. He provided the final pass for 3 of our 6 scores from play against Tyrone. The stat would suggest he was the most effective passer on the team the last day out.
No harm to ya, but you come across as a bullshitter. You have a crap, baseless, blanket argument.
Maybe but my eyes didnt decieve me. I never seen more fumbling, dropped balls etc. He's shite. Call a spade a spade. We will not win anything with MOR at CHF or even in that team.
quotes like this are what are annoying other posters. yes, this is a discussion board and if you dont think that mor is up to the standard fair enough you should state this e.g. "i dont rate mor i dont think he is good enough". calling someone who has dedicated so much time and effort to armagh over the last number of years an embarrassment and "shite" doesnt reflect very well on you asa poster/supporter. granted mor didnt have a great game against tyrone though he brings something to the half forward line that we dont have. someone with the ability to win breaking ball. kerry= galvin, tyrone=dooher for this role. haveaharp who would you suggest for the role?
Well if it annoys ye dont read it. I already said that i hated to be so hard on the guy because he has given more time and effort to the cause than we could ever know but to what end ? He aint good enough.
And all this shite about the Dooher role or the galvin role ? Did these guys write the template for Gaelic football ? Armagh need to stop worrying about what other counties do or have and start playing with 3 half forwards that know where the posts are located. Until we do that we will win nothing.
Name your team Haveaharp.
my worry about this team is that our system is flawed,we are playing too deep and cant seem to get forward quick enough to assist the attack,
in defence my 7 would have one change with duffy playing instead of finnian,
midfield would be three, vernon, toner lavery spread across the field with vernon in the middle of the three, half forwardswould see,MOR, BM and MC KENNA WITH STEVIE AND CLARKE FRONT 2
any indepth reports on fridays game
Quote from: corn02 on June 15, 2009, 10:37:22 AM
Name your team Haveaharp.
Id upset you because there would be no MORon the team
id like to see the next day
mc Evoy
Mallon Donaghy Moriarity
Duffy Toner McKeever
Lavery Vernon
Ak Mallon PK
McDonnell Clarke Forker
Quote from: haveaharp on June 15, 2009, 04:20:23 PM
id like to see the next day
mc Evoy
Mallon Donaghy Moriarity
Duffy Toner McKeever
Lavery Vernon
Ak Mallon PK
McDonnell Clarke Forker
Thanks for proving your lack of knowledge or do you want to justify PK in the half-forward line?
Quote from: corn02 on June 15, 2009, 04:22:07 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 15, 2009, 04:20:23 PM
id like to see the next day
mc Evoy
Mallon Donaghy Moriarity
Duffy Toner McKeever
Lavery Vernon
Ak Mallon PK
McDonnell Clarke Forker
Thanks for proving your lack of knowledge or do you want to justify PK in the half-forward line?
In case you havent noticed there is a dearth of half forwards available to us. MOR is not a half forward. PK is as good an option as any. Apart from MOR who would you have in there ?
Quote from: corn02 on June 15, 2009, 10:37:22 AM
Name your team Haveaharp.
Name yours (imagine a world where the name O Rourke doesnt exist) if you will.
Quote from: haveaharp on June 15, 2009, 04:29:12 PM
Quote from: corn02 on June 15, 2009, 10:37:22 AM
Name your team Haveaharp.
Name yours (imagine a world where the name O Rourke doesnt exist) if you will.
Here sure if Mallon struggle in corner back we can always throw big Clarke in there. You don;t like Marty playing so stick a boy who probably has never played forwards for club or county in there for a Championship match - so no actually, he is not as good as option as anyone.
Why would I name a team without Marty if I think Marty should start? What would be the point.
I'll name my team no problem, open to ridicule but I doubt anyone other than yourself will label any of the players I select as "shite" and an "embarresment".
McEvoy
Mallon Toner Shannon
AK Donaghy McKeever
Lavery Vernon
Mallon SK Marty
McDonnell Clarke TK
Quote from: corn02 on June 15, 2009, 04:37:43 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 15, 2009, 04:29:12 PM
Quote from: corn02 on June 15, 2009, 10:37:22 AM
Name your team Haveaharp.
Name yours (imagine a world where the name O Rourke doesnt exist) if you will.
Here sure if Mallon struggle in corner back we can always throw big Clarke in there. You don;t like Marty playing so stick a boy who probably has never played forwards for club or county in there for a Championship match - so no actually, he is not as good as option as anyone.
Why would I name a team without Marty if I think Marty should start? What would be the point.
I'll name my team no problem, open to ridicule but I doubt anyone other than yourself will label any of the players I select as "shite" and an "embarresment".
McEvoy
Mallon Toner Shannon
AK Donaghy McKeever
Lavery Vernon
Mallon SK Marty
McDonnell Clarke TK
You must be either MOR or related to him :D
I think people are exaggerating the goalkeeper arguement a bit - everyone seems convinced McEvoy is a right bit better than Hearty but my take is that despite occasional errors, Hearty's has more goal game for us than bad. The kick outs do bother me though, particularly his inability to vary them at all. Seen McEvoy make a couple of strange errors in a club game recently. Think its fairly 50 / 50 between them at the minute. Would definitely have McKinney in goals if he was available. Would maybe go for McEvoy for the 1st round on the theory that it'd be good to give him some championship experience.
McEvoy
Mallon Toner Shannon
Duffy McKeever Donaghy
Vernon Lavery
A Kernan McDonnell M O'Rourke
Mallon Clarke K O'Rourke
Worth trying Toner at full back if Charlie's fit given that James Lavery seems a viable option at midfield since the Tyrone match. Few tight calls in the forwards - think Kevin O'Rourke did enough to justify another start. Forker isn't far away. Think Tony & Stephen Kernan might do a better job coming on. I personally haven't seen enough of Paul Kernan to give any sort of verdict on him at intercounty level so have gone for Shannon.
Quote from: haveaharp on June 15, 2009, 05:02:01 PM
Quote from: corn02 on June 15, 2009, 04:37:43 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 15, 2009, 04:29:12 PM
Quote from: corn02 on June 15, 2009, 10:37:22 AM
Name your team Haveaharp.
Name yours (imagine a world where the name O Rourke doesnt exist) if you will.
Here sure if Mallon struggle in corner back we can always throw big Clarke in there. You don;t like Marty playing so stick a boy who probably has never played forwards for club or county in there for a Championship match - so no actually, he is not as good as option as anyone.
Why would I name a team without Marty if I think Marty should start? What would be the point.
I'll name my team no problem, open to ridicule but I doubt anyone other than yourself will label any of the players I select as "shite" and an "embarresment".
McEvoy
Mallon Toner Shannon
AK Donaghy McKeever
Lavery Vernon
Mallon SK Marty
McDonnell Clarke TK
You must be either MOR or related to him :D
Because I included him in my team?
Quote from: haveaharp on June 15, 2009, 04:26:56 PM
Quote from: corn02 on June 15, 2009, 04:22:07 PM
Quote from: haveaharp on June 15, 2009, 04:20:23 PM
id like to see the next day
mc Evoy
Mallon Donaghy Moriarity
Duffy Toner McKeever
Lavery Vernon
Ak Mallon PK
McDonnell Clarke Forker
Thanks for proving your lack of knowledge or do you want to justify PK in the half-forward line?
In case you havent noticed there is a dearth of half forwards available to us. MOR is not a half forward. PK is as good an option as any. Apart from MOR who would you have in there ?
havea harp you must have had 20 harp when your making these posts. where would you consider mor position to be. pk in the half forward line, do me a favour would you. how is he as good an opion as any in that position. not a bad player though untested at this level and you suggest to play him at half forward.
MOR is all heart but I think he is just too slow for championship football. Its certainly debatable which of the other lads could come in a replace him. I felt tony and stephen kernan appearances in the second half helped give armagh more shape in the forward line.
Quote from: ArmaghGAAforum on June 15, 2009, 08:39:53 PM
MOR is all heart but I think he is just too slow for championship football. Its certainly debatable which of the other lads could come in a replace him. I felt tony and stephen kernan appearances in the second half helped give armagh more shape in the forward line.
The old 'too slow' myth based on one run by Justin McMahon when Marty was favouring his ankle.
Anyways, noone is saying it can;t be debated, by all means it is a discussion board. Just when someone starts calling a player shite etc, it goes too far.
Quote from: corn02 on June 15, 2009, 08:56:49 PM
Quote from: ArmaghGAAforum on June 15, 2009, 08:39:53 PM
MOR is all heart but I think he is just too slow for championship football. Its certainly debatable which of the other lads could come in a replace him. I felt tony and stephen kernan appearances in the second half helped give armagh more shape in the forward line.
The old 'too slow' myth based on one run by Justin McMahon when Marty was favouring his ankle.
Anyways, noone is saying it can;t be debated, by all means it is a discussion board. Just when someone starts calling a player shite etc, it goes too far.
That happens too often. I dunno, I think sometimes folk on here forget that the likelihood of the particular player they are criticising, actually reading the post is quite high. What I try to live by is that I would say the same thing to their face as I would type here.
Quote from: corn02 on June 15, 2009, 08:56:49 PM
Quote from: ArmaghGAAforum on June 15, 2009, 08:39:53 PM
MOR is all heart but I think he is just too slow for championship football. Its certainly debatable which of the other lads could come in a replace him. I felt tony and stephen kernan appearances in the second half helped give armagh more shape in the forward line.
The old 'too slow' myth based on one run by Justin McMahon when Marty was favouring his ankle.
Anyways, noone is saying it can;t be debated, by all means it is a discussion board. Just when someone starts calling a player shite etc, it goes too far.
I'm certainly not calling him shite, I think he can read a game quite well and is capable of picking up the breaking balls but he is slow and i'm not basing it purely on that one moment. We have all watched Martin in many matches recently and its his lack of speed that lets him down. I'm a huge fan of Martin's. He pulls on that jersey and you just know he'll bust his balls for his county but in the heat of championship football and the talent within the squad I believe we could be stronger without him in the team. Possibly Martin is the type of player to bring on in the second half.
Quote from: ArmaghGAAforum on June 15, 2009, 09:05:03 PM
Quote from: corn02 on June 15, 2009, 08:56:49 PM
Quote from: ArmaghGAAforum on June 15, 2009, 08:39:53 PM
MOR is all heart but I think he is just too slow for championship football. Its certainly debatable which of the other lads could come in a replace him. I felt tony and stephen kernan appearances in the second half helped give armagh more shape in the forward line.
The old 'too slow' myth based on one run by Justin McMahon when Marty was favouring his ankle.
Anyways, noone is saying it can;t be debated, by all means it is a discussion board. Just when someone starts calling a player shite etc, it goes too far.
I'm certainly not calling him shite, I think he can read a game quite well and is capable of picking up the breaking balls but he is slow and i'm not basing it purely on that one moment. We have all watched Martin in many matches recently and its his lack of speed that lets him down. I'm a huge fan of Martin's. He pulls on that jersey and you just know he'll bust his balls for his county but in the heat of championship football and the talent within the squad I believe we could be stronger without him in the team. Possibly Martin is the type of player to bring on in the second half.
Was referring to Haveaharp lad.
I have posted on here before about how people can have so big a difference on players and how the played in a match. My question to you is why most have you prefer Duffy in the half back line, i have seen the guy play several times and infact i have played against him several times and i do not rate him at all. Sure he has a bit of pace and fitness but i would have Finn Mo in ahead of him...
Maybe you guys have seen a lot more of him than i have and have seen things that i can't see but the lad didn't even stand out at club level for me never mind intercounty ???
Quote from: illdecide on June 17, 2009, 05:23:14 PM
I have posted on here before about how people can have so big a difference on players and how the played in a match. My question to you is why most have you prefer Duffy in the half back line, i have seen the guy play several times and infact i have played against him several times and i do not rate him at all. Sure he has a bit of pace and fitness but i would have Finn Mo in ahead of him...
Maybe you guys have seen a lot more of him than i have and have seen things that i can't see but the lad didn't even stand out at club level for me never mind intercounty ???
Erm, reread that post again. Paul Duffy mightn't exactly get much confidence from reading your comments on him!
Quote from: illdecide on June 17, 2009, 05:23:14 PM
I have posted on here before about how people can have so big a difference on players and how the played in a match. My question to you is why most have you prefer Duffy in the half back line, i have seen the guy play several times and infact i have played against him several times and i do not rate him at all. Sure he has a bit of pace and fitness but i would have Finn Mo in ahead of him...
Maybe you guys have seen a lot more of him than i have and have seen things that i can't see but the lad didn't even stand out at club level for me never mind intercounty ???
When did you last see him play?
any time i have seen duffy i have been impressed, i remember a game at clones a few years ago in the championship when he was the stand out player, i believe he is comfortable on the ball and can pick a pass,
Duffy has been pretty decent in my eyes, just needs to take the next step. Seems a good ball carrier, will be interesting to see if he plays the next day.
Fair enough lads when i re-read it myself there i didn't come accross the way i meant too. I meant to say i've only seen the lad a few times for the Og's and going by his performance on those particular days i wouldn't have selected him to play for Armagh...
I seriously don't wanna knock anyone back as i was never the best of 1st div footballers myself, i was just trying to give my opinion on the lad and i should have done it a bit better...I've prob dug a deeper hole :-[
Duffy was playing half forward for ogs against dromintee at he weekend and aidan o'rourke completely destroyed him. i've always thought him defensively too much of a liability for a half back but now i'm not sure he's a half forward either.
Feck off orangeman, we already have a thread >:( :P
Worst draw possible, we seem cursed never to get away from f**king Ulster. Even if we win we'll probably end up with Derry next, in Clones, again >:(
If both teams decide to play football, it should be a good game. Don't think there is as much bad blood between these 2 teams as there was between Derry and Monaghan so should be clean enough.
Armagh to win by 3, based on the fact that they have better players than Monaghan.
Quote from: AFS on June 21, 2009, 07:07:40 PM
Worst draw possible, we seem cursed never to get away from f**king Ulster. Even if we win we'll probably end up with Derry next, in Clones, again >:(
Just what I was thinking about Monaghan!
There was always a danger that we could have a 2007 style season. In 2007 the game against Donegal wasn't too discouraging, we should have won. We could have beaten Derry then too, but put in a flat performance and ended up out of the championship after the minimum 2 games. The game against Tyrone wasn't a disaster, but we really need to show some form, workrate and simple enthusiasm for Monaghan.
Quote from: armaghniac on June 21, 2009, 07:13:10 PM
There was always a danger that we could have a 2007 style season. In 2007 the game against Donegal wasn't too discouraging, we should have won. We could have beaten Derry then too, but put in a flat performance and ended up out of the championship after the minimum 2 games. The game against Tyrone wasn't a disaster, but we really need to show some form, workrate and simple enthusiasm for Monaghan.
Agree we missed Ronan Clarke that year - if Charlie Vernon is back think Armagh should progress. On the MOR thing are the rumours true that his training attendance is somewhat less than 100%?
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0622/1224249263380.html
Monaghan have home advantage and could even have leading marksman Tommy Freeman back after his eight-week suspension was sent back to the Central Hearings Committee because of technical irregularities. The CHC are expected to re-hear the case this week.
Quote from: PatDaly on June 22, 2009, 04:59:19 PM
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2009/0622/1224249263380.html
Monaghan have home advantage and could even have leading marksman Tommy Freeman back after his eight-week suspension was sent back to the Central Hearings Committee because of technical irregularities. The CHC are expected to re-hear the case this week.
I don't think too many people are expecting Tommy to be available for this one.
Quote from: jimbo on June 21, 2009, 09:41:04 PM
On the MOR thing are the rumours true that his training attendance is somewhat less than 100%?
It is true, but only because he is still in that dressing room in Cork trying to start a mutiny. ::)
Anyways, opposition now known, do our line-outs change a bit?
QuoteThe Farney meet Armagh on 4 July with McEnaney telling the Examiner newspaper: 'I must have killed a lot of black cats in a past life. I wasn't expecting an easy draw but this is toughest possible draw we could have got.'
:D
Quote from: corn02 on June 22, 2009, 05:43:50 PM
Quote from: jimbo on June 21, 2009, 09:41:04 PM
On the MOR thing are the rumours true that his training attendance is somewhat less than 100%?
It is true, but only because he is still in that dressing room in Cork trying to start a mutiny. ::)
Anyways, opposition now known, do our line-outs change a bit?
Mutiny? If McDonnell can't win this he'll be under pressure.
A lot will depend on if freeman is available. i would think he wont be. monaghan midfield will be a bit more physical than tyrone to say the least. ball winning in their will be fierce.
Beo
RTE2 7-00pm.
Quote from: corn02 on June 22, 2009, 05:43:50 PM
Quote from: jimbo on June 21, 2009, 09:41:04 PM
On the MOR thing are the rumours true that his training attendance is somewhat less than 100%?
It is true, but only because he is still in that dressing room in Cork trying to start a mutiny. ::)
Anyways, opposition now known, do our line-outs change a bit?
Ours do but the team's probably won't now. One of the unfortunate consequences of this draw is that there's little or no room for experimentation. A handier draw might've made it easier to give Forker, Henderson or Paul Kernan some game time; it could also have allowed for Toner to be tried in at FB with Donaghy further out the field. But now I don't think there'll be much will to change from the tried and (sort of) trusted. So the only changes I envisage are maybe Vernon in for Duffy, and Kevin O'Rourke could lose his place to Forker or either of the Kernans.
Why is everyone suggesting replacing Kevin O Rourke? everyone (Or nearly everyone) agreed he was unlucky to be replaced at the tyrone match, i thought he played well and should be def be worth another shot in the corner
Quote from: AFS on June 23, 2009, 01:06:51 AM
Quote from: corn02 on June 22, 2009, 05:43:50 PM
Quote from: jimbo on June 21, 2009, 09:41:04 PM
On the MOR thing are the rumours true that his training attendance is somewhat less than 100%?
It is true, but only because he is still in that dressing room in Cork trying to start a mutiny. ::)
Anyways, opposition now known, do our line-outs change a bit?
Ours do but the team's probably won't now. One of the unfortunate consequences of this draw is that there's little or no room for experimentation. A handier draw might've made it easier to give Forker, Henderson or Paul Kernan some game time; it could also have allowed for Toner to be tried in at FB with Donaghy further out the field. But now I don't think there'll be much will to change from the tried and (sort of) trusted. So the only changes I envisage are maybe Vernon in for Duffy, and Kevin O'Rourke could lose his place to Forker or either of the Kernans.
none of this would be tried had we got Carlow or London either. These are still championship matches, not friendlies. Armagh are playing quite a few practise matches where "experimentation" can take place, not in the championship - whatever the opposition.
also, S Kernan out of next weeks clash in any case after cartilage op on the knee.
Lads try and keep this thread as a football thread this back and forth about such and such a one being "shite" really isn't the point. Everyone on the board has their club loyalties, friends, favourites etc which reflect in the team they would like to be selected. Also everyone has the players that they don't like and would prefer to not see in the team, all of this makes for great discussion which is why this board exists in the first place.
Any player at any level who plays football puts commitment into the game; at county level that commitment is effectively putting the rest of your life on hold. If you succeed there are some benefits, however many of the 35 man training panel will never kick a ball in championship and will be seen as "not having made it at county level" despite the fact that they put 35-50 hours a week into the cause. For posters to jump on a players back and say they are an embarrassment says a lot more about the poster as a supporter than it does about the player.
Here Here Heganboy, well said,
however this is a discussion board and Criticism is enevitable, but it is the way some guys go about it,
Have Paul McGuigan and JP Mone been playing much for Clontibret since the Derry "match"?? If JP was any way fit I'd start Vinny in the forwards wit JP at full-back.
Think Vinny will be FF! Need a massive game from Jap Finley!
I feel this is a massive game for the Armagh management in more ways thatn one.
Besides the knock-out nature of the game, I feel the management have their backs against the wall.
Beat Monaghan & a bit of momentum should be carried on and we could get a decent run in the Championship.
Defeat to Monaghan & his credentials as Armagh manager will be questioned (mainly due to the talk of many people, mostly the media that this team is in transition)
Quote from: timmyot501 on June 23, 2009, 04:51:18 PM
Have Paul McGuigan and JP Mone been playing much for Clontibret since the Derry "match"?? If JP was any way fit I'd start Vinny in the forwards wit JP at full-back.
Both have been playing away and JP Mone was fit for the Derry match, he wasn't selected as missed a few training sessions.
Maybe stick Vinny in at FF, (with Mone - Mone - McArdle along the back line) then if there are problems in defence, bring him back and put Ronaghan on at FF.
Vinny is an option up front alright if JP is selected, though I'd still rather see him play wing-back. We need something new up front now Tommy is out, so Vinny could start at FF. I'd like to see McGuigan given a go but that seems unlikely given the lack of gametime he's been given by Banty this year, and it seems were he to be given a run it'd be at wing-back where he seems to be down the pecking order a good bit now.
Can't see anything else but an Armagh win, the form would suggest that too.
Quote from: DennistheMenace on June 23, 2009, 06:25:22 PM
Can't see anything else but an Armagh win, the form would suggest that too.
What form? One match? Or the league (where Monaghan beat Armagh and topped the division)?
Quote from: heganboy on June 23, 2009, 12:00:57 PM
Lads try and keep this thread as a football thread this back and forth about such and such a one being "shite" really isn't the point. Everyone on the board has their club loyalties, friends, favourites etc which reflect in the team they would like to be selected. Also everyone has the players that they don't like and would prefer to not see in the team, all of this makes for great discussion which is why this board exists in the first place.
Any player at any level who plays football puts commitment into the game; at county level that commitment is effectively putting the rest of your life on hold. If you succeed there are some benefits, however many of the 35 man training panel will never kick a ball in championship and will be seen as "not having made it at county level" despite the fact that they put 35-50 hours a week into the cause. For posters to jump on a players back and say they are an embarrassment says a lot more about the poster as a supporter than it does about the player.
100% agree.
Try to see beyond the hedge at the edge of the Parish!!
If you dont rate someone keep it to yourself.
I suspect that there are very few posters on here with a drawer full of Ulster Medals/All Ireland medals.
I hate everyone born in Tyrone or Down living or dead....but would never make it personal.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 23, 2009, 06:29:26 PM
Quote from: DennistheMenace on June 23, 2009, 06:25:22 PM
Can't see anything else but an Armagh win, the form would suggest that too.
What form? One match? Or the league (where Monaghan beat Armagh and topped the division)?
I strongly adhere to the thought of the league is the league and the Championship is the Championship.
Yes after watching Derry v Monaghan and Armagh v Tyrone, I strongly fancy Armagh to win especially considering Freeman looks likely to miss out.
Quote from: DennistheMenace on June 23, 2009, 09:10:11 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 23, 2009, 06:29:26 PM
Quote from: DennistheMenace on June 23, 2009, 06:25:22 PM
Can't see anything else but an Armagh win, the form would suggest that too.
What form? One match? Or the league (where Monaghan beat Armagh and topped the division)?
I strongly adhere to the thought of the league is the league and the Championship is the Championship.
Yes after watching Derry v Monaghan and Armagh v Tyrone, I strongly fancy Armagh to win especially considering Freeman looks likely to miss out.
Fair enough - I think that it's quite possible it could go Armagh's way. But i think it takes more that one single game 3 weeks ago and one single game 4 weeks ago to constitute 'form'.
Aye in fairness looking at both first round games Armagh looked more impressive, and with Tommy missing out Armagh are rightly favourites. But as you say Maguire, that was one game weeks ago and I'd be confident the team have regrouped well and are ready for a crack at Armagh. Last year we got a good response to beat Derry after getting a bad beat from Fermanagh, hopefully we can get a similar response this time too.
I believe it is a 50/50 game and i think it'll be down to whoever the ball breaks for on the night will win it. There is no doubt Monaghan will miss Freeman but they're not a one man team...Heads or tails ;)
Quote from: Onion Bag on June 23, 2009, 08:27:46 AM
Why is everyone suggesting replacing Kevin O Rourke? everyone (Or nearly everyone) agreed he was unlucky to be replaced at the tyrone match, i thought he played well and should be def be worth another shot in the corner
Def thought he looked lively the last day and was very unlucky to be hauled ashore. Would he be an option maybe in half forward line where we are probably at our weakest with maybe Forker in the corner.
Double header next Saturday night folks
Minor Game at 5.15pm, Senior Game at 7.00pm
Common sense for once. Armagh might be favourites for the minors, but the main event is very much 50/50.
Paddy Power go
5/4 Monaghan
7/1 Draw
4/5 Armagh
Continue to hear conflicting stories about Vernon's availability for the match, if there is any doubt I wouldn't take a chance as it will be tough and physical. For what it is worth my team would be:
McEvoy
A Mallon K Toner B Shannon
B Donaghy C McKeever A Kernan
J Lavery C Vernon
MOR D McKenna
S McDonnell K O'Rourke
R Clarke B Mallon
We HAVE to get men up to support Clarke with any one of the HB line, Vernon, McKenna, McDonnell, and K O'Rourke well capable of doing so. Lavery and MOR could anchor the midfield with one of the others rotating to help them. Our game plan is well known at this stage and easily negated by a well organised defence like Monaghan's. If we continue to persist with plan A then it would have to go down as a huge black mark against the management.
Monaghan's midfield is very strong and a big performance from Lavery is needed again.
Our defence looks strong on paper and I would be confident of keeping the scores down against Monaghan, especially as Freeman isn't playing. Kieran Toner has the physical attributes if Corey was on the edge of the square. Our HB line is very mobile and must go forward to support our attack when they get the chance.
TK, Henderson, and Forker would be handy men to bring on with 20/25 mins to go.
Quote from: mackers on June 24, 2009, 11:00:54 AM
Continue to hear conflicting stories about Vernon's availability for the match, if there is any doubt I wouldn't take a chance as it will be tough and physical. For what it is worth my team would be:
McEvoy
A Mallon K Toner B Shannon
B Donaghy C McKeever A Kernan
J Lavery C Vernon
MOR D McKenna
S McDonnell K O'Rourke
R Clarke B Mallon
We HAVE to get men up to support Clarke with any one of the HB line, Vernon, McKenna, McDonnell, and K O'Rourke well capable of doing so. Lavery and MOR could anchor the midfield with one of the others rotating to help them. Our game plan is well known at this stage and easily negated by a well organised defence like Monaghan's. If we continue to persist with plan A then it would have to go down as a huge black mark against the management.
Monaghan's midfield is very strong and a big performance from Lavery is needed again.
Our defence looks strong on paper and I would be confident of keeping the scores down against Monaghan, especially as Freeman isn't playing. Kieran Toner has the physical attributes if Corey was on the edge of the square. Our HB line is very mobile and must go forward to support our attack when they get the chance.
TK, Henderson, and Forker would be handy men to bring on with 20/25 mins to go.
Monaghan's midfield "very strong"? That's probably the weakest line, especially with Lennon being out of form recently.
Well who are they going to play there instead?
What about that Barney McKenna guy or that James Conlon lad from Carrick - any sign of the Banty looking at his subs this year?
Banty has been doing alright this year with the subs, but there's still room for improvement. (Saying you're using 25-30 men during the league means little if some of those are getting one or two appearances 68 minutes into the game.)
Finlay seems to be the best option for midfield when Clerkin or Lennon are subbed, rather than someone coming off the bench straight into midfield.
I'm not sure I could agree regarding the subs thing ... over the past few years he's not introduced that many new faces at all that you would count as worth their place.
Like you said he's played alot in the league - but only a few of them are serious county players.
Yes, moving Finlay to MF is one option, but sometimes it robs Peter to pay Paul from a Monaghan perspective and often allows the opposition to move the centre of play away from their goals more to the MF area. One other option is to keep McQuaid at CHB and move Darren Hughes into MF and this would free Finlay to stay attacking.
It would be a big move for Hughes, but it's his second Championship year and he'd be well able to move into it after 20 minutes or so once the game had settled a little and you saw if Lennon was going to do anything or not.
The biggest issue for Monaghan in my opinion is of they can be a little more positive ... not a criticism for the sake of it ... but just like Cassidy last week, the McElkennon/Banty focus is always on the negative/tackling aspect - which is fine - but at the expense of the positive attacking play they need to beat teams - and score more.
You need a balance and I'm not sure Monaghan have that.
Quote from: JMohan on June 24, 2009, 11:12:23 AM
Well who are they going to play there instead?
What about that Barney McKenna guy or that James Conlon lad from Carrick - any sign of the Banty looking at his subs this year?
Conlon left panel before the league was over, as he never got a chance in MF and was even played Corner back in one game.
Benny McKenna is nowhere near an intercounty MF, not mobile enough or aggressive (not in that way!!) enough. Banty played him at FF for some league matches I'd imagine this is where he'd get a run if at all.
I'd still consider JP mone for MF. Very mobile, played there in the past and can play ball.
Conlon could have doe a job there for Lennon I'd have thought - especially with his mobility.
JP Moen could do something at midfield but he'd be too defensive orientated to make a winning difference - you have that already in the Dick, you need someone with a little bit of a threat about them.
Any time I've seen Eoin Lennon (although I only saw highlights of the Derry game) he's impressed me and Dick Clerkin would be way too cute for the young fellas we have about the midfield. You have to remember that for the majority of the last couple of years Armagh have struggled badly in midfield.
Lennon was terrible the last day and the management seem to have lost faith in him too - even publicly.
Lennons set up, flying in from Liverpool at the weekend, was far from ideal. Diet and lack of physical training with intercounty players would be a big disadvantage. McElkennon should have kept his mouth shut that last time. Also Lennon played with injuries last year and was carrying his ankle all year. I don't think this helped him and his form suffered as a result.
But he's a good footballer and I'd hope he'll get the form back if Monaghan get a run. It could be the difference. His midfielder partner at Latton, Aidan Farmer, had an excellent year last year and has carried Latton when I've seen then this year. Surprised he never got a run in McKenna cup.
JP not overly defensively, he has played MF in past for county and alot for the club. It was only really since Kerry in 2007 that he played FB for county. He's a good ball player and I'd like to see him with an inform Lennon in MF.
Is anyone aware of a quicker way from Donegal Gaeltacht to Clones other than Letterkenny, Strabane, Omagh, Lisnaskea. Supposed to be going to Donegal for the weekend next weekend but Google tells me its going to take near 3 hours to get to the match!
What part of the Gaeltacht TAM?
Quote from: Joxer on June 24, 2009, 01:03:04 PM
What part of the Gaeltacht TAM?
Gortahork Joxer. Looks like a nightmare journey. Might just go up on the Friday now and go home after the match. Typical Armagh ruining a Summer!
That journey is nothing man FFS :o
Suck it in and get on with it lol.
Its only 2 hours from Letterkenny, Whats Gortahork? Another half an hour? Its a pain in the hole but its the only way
Quote from: Joxer on June 24, 2009, 01:11:40 PM
That journey is nothing man FFS :o
2 3/4 hours driving is a fair bit to take on at near 9 o'clock on a Saturday evening when you're looking to get back for a night out and would be going home on the Sunday anyway!
I know you probably are best leaving it to Sunday morning to go back up the road but there is no quicker alternative
Quote from: bingobus on June 24, 2009, 12:26:23 PM
Lennons set up, flying in from Liverpool at the weekend, was far from ideal. Diet and lack of physical training with intercounty players would be a big disadvantage. McElkennon should have kept his mouth shut that last time. Also Lennon played with injuries last year and was carrying his ankle all year. I don't think this helped him and his form suffered as a result.
But he's a good footballer and I'd hope he'll get the form back if Monaghan get a run. It could be the difference. His midfielder partner at Latton, Aidan Farmer, had an excellent year last year and has carried Latton when I've seen then this year. Surprised he never got a run in McKenna cup.
JP not overly defensively, he has played MF in past for county and alot for the club. It was only really since Kerry in 2007 that he played FB for county. He's a good ball player and I'd like to see him with an inform Lennon in MF.
Lennon's a good footballer, but played better with the ankle injury than this year without. (Of course all the flights to Liverpool for McElkennon must be tiring him too.)
But all that just makes you wonder why Banty never looked to try someone else for the MF spot - even just as cover.
I disgree on JPM though ... not a MF player for my book... but we can disagree - it's allowed!
Quote from: JMohan on June 24, 2009, 01:24:18 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 24, 2009, 12:26:23 PM
Lennons set up, flying in from Liverpool at the weekend, was far from ideal. Diet and lack of physical training with intercounty players would be a big disadvantage. McElkennon should have kept his mouth shut that last time. Also Lennon played with injuries last year and was carrying his ankle all year. I don't think this helped him and his form suffered as a result.
But he's a good footballer and I'd hope he'll get the form back if Monaghan get a run. It could be the difference. His midfielder partner at Latton, Aidan Farmer, had an excellent year last year and has carried Latton when I've seen then this year. Surprised he never got a run in McKenna cup.
JP not overly defensively, he has played MF in past for county and alot for the club. It was only really since Kerry in 2007 that he played FB for county. He's a good ball player and I'd like to see him with an inform Lennon in MF.
Lennon's a good footballer, but played better with the ankle injury than this year without. (Of course all the flights to Liverpool for McElkennon must be tiring him too.)
But all that just makes you wonder why Banty never looked to try someone else for the MF spot - even just as cover.
I disgree on JPM though ... not a MF player for my book... but we can disagree - it's allowed!
Have always seen Bantys major problem been that he hasn't tried players in MF (and in several other positions). This has been ongoing for a number of years. Every game with him is a muct win and he plays his strongest team. Conlon should defo had a run in MF in league, he's a very modern midfielder and gets round the pitch. Scored 2 goals against us recently in league match!
I think the toil of last year has taken alot out of Lennon. He took his club to a county title but still didn't reach the heights he did in previous years. He is prob mentally drained and burnout to a certain extent.
I'll agree to disagree.
Either way ... end of one manager's reign on Sunday I'd say - McEnenany or McDonnell
I can't see Banty staying beyond this year anyway.
I'd have thought McDonnell would get another year at least reagrdless. He has a massive task in Armagh, taking on a succesful team and losing some high profile players in his initial couple of years can't have been easy. He got a cheap Ulster last year but he needs time...no easy job he has with expectations very high.
The biggest challenge Monaghan have is who will replace (a) the Banty and (b) McElkennon ....
They need someone to continue on their work - but also to bring them to the next level.
I think the Banty has done very well, but you need a better quality of manager to bring the team to AI standard - I think they're just below that, but it'll be a smart man to do that.
Banty goes on about "trust" between his bunch of players and the management. Well maybe this trust has cost him to a certain extent. By my reckoning he only trusts half his panel (first 15) and has very little faith in any subs (bar the same one or two). If he trusted his panel then he would have given Eoin Lennon a break during the league and "trusted" someone else in midfield for at least one or 2 halves of matches. He doesn't know if there is a better midfielder in the county other than Lennon as he never tried one (there may not be any). I'm hopin the break of 6 weeks will help Eoin re-discover some form because we all know on his day he can be a class act. Surely with him being in Liverpool, this year was the time to throw in a new face for a continued run and see what happens. One good performance could turn Lennons season around and I assume he is home for the summer so maybe he will be in good enough shape next week.
Good point about the 'trust' issue Timmy
Quote from: bingobus on June 24, 2009, 02:53:32 PM
I can't see Banty staying beyond this year anyway.
I'd have thought McDonnell would get another year at least reagrdless. He has a massive task in Armagh, taking on a succesful team and losing some high profile players in his initial couple of years can't have been easy. He got a cheap Ulster last year but he needs time...no easy job he has with expectations very high.
I don't like boys shouting for the manager's head after every defeat and an Armagh defeat to Monaghan shouldn't automatically mean McDonnell gets the road. It's not that we are looking trophies in the short term. However, we have to see some sort of development in the way we are playing the game, we have to move on from lumping it into Clarke and McDonnell and let them fight for it. A "Plan B" has only been shown in glimpses under McDonnell and if it's not evident on Saturday week he may be facing down the barrel. A repeat performance of the Wexford debacle just can't be tolerated. There's a young talented team there to be developed.
Quote from: mackers on June 24, 2009, 03:32:50 PM
Quote from: bingobus on June 24, 2009, 02:53:32 PM
I can't see Banty staying beyond this year anyway.
I'd have thought McDonnell would get another year at least reagrdless. He has a massive task in Armagh, taking on a succesful team and losing some high profile players in his initial couple of years can't have been easy. He got a cheap Ulster last year but he needs time...no easy job he has with expectations very high.
I don't like boys shouting for the manager's head after every defeat and an Armagh defeat to Monaghan shouldn't automatically mean McDonnell gets the road. It's not that we are looking trophies in the short term. However, we have to see some sort of development in the way we are playing the game, we have to move on from lumping it into Clarke and McDonnell and let them fight for it. A "Plan B" has only been shown in glimpses under McDonnell and if it's not evident on Saturday week he may be facing down the barrel. A repeat performance of the Wexford debacle just can't be tolerated. There's a young talented team there to be developed.
I'm calling for his head - I just can't see Armagh looking at what has gone on the past 2 years and leaving him in charge ... 'progress' is very debatable.
Quote from: JMohan on June 24, 2009, 03:00:44 PM
The biggest challenge Monaghan have is who will replace (a) the Banty and (b) McElkennon ....
They need someone to continue on their work - but also to bring them to the next level.
I think the Banty has done very well, but you need a better quality of manager to bring the team to AI standard - I think they're just below that, but it'll be a smart man to do that.
I think the problem is that maybe they have hit the ceiling in as far as they can go, it would be an awful pity for the Banty to go without at least an Ulster title, but I cant see him staying on.
Quote from: timmyot501 on June 24, 2009, 03:06:57 PM
Banty goes on about "trust" between his bunch of players and the management. Well maybe this trust has cost him to a certain extent. By my reckoning he only trusts half his panel (first 15) and has very little faith in any subs (bar the same one or two). If he trusted his panel then he would have given Eoin Lennon a break during the league and "trusted" someone else in midfield for at least one or 2 halves of matches. He doesn't know if there is a better midfielder in the county other than Lennon as he never tried one (there may not be any). I'm hopin the break of 6 weeks will help Eoin re-discover some form because we all know on his day he can be a class act. Surely with him being in Liverpool, this year was the time to throw in a new face for a continued run and see what happens. One good performance could turn Lennons season around and I assume he is home for the summer so maybe he will be in good enough shape next week.
Spot on.
Regarding the midfield issue, as has been said we simply haven't tried anybody new in there. And what seemed like the best alternative in James Conlon, he was played way out of position and eventually got fed up and left. As far as JP goes, it's a bit hard to know. I'd love to see him playing at midfield for a bit to see how he goes, but now isn't the time to do that I don't think, that would be something for during the league, but of course he wasn't available for most of it this year. He's been superb when playing for us at midfield in the club, in particular in 2007 when we won the championship last, some of his fielding was a joy to watch. But he's even been playing full-back for us recently. But if Banty is going to keep playing Vinny at full-back then JP is as good an option we have to try out at midfield, I'd be confident of him doing a good job if he was picked there. I still think Banty will persist with Lennon and Dick in the middle though.
A good omen for Armagh? Derek Fahy from Longford is the match referee. He was the ref when Armagh beat Monaghan (1-13 to 0-10) in the Ulster championship replay back in May 2006. He was also the ref when Armagh hammered Dublin (Armagh 3-13 Dublin 1-10) in Crossmaglen back in April 2008
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2008/0413/armagh_dublin.html
http://www.rte.ie/sport/2006/0520/armagh.html
That performance against Dublin was the best of the McDonnell era, if we can manage that again then we are in round 2.
Quote from: eireogatron on June 23, 2009, 11:44:23 AM
also, S Kernan out of next weeks clash in any case after cartilage op on the knee.
hard to know at this stage how many weeks it will take to recover and is likely to miss several matches.....if we win of course.
http://armaghgaa.info/forum/f5/stephen-kernan-ruled-out-weeks-174/
armagh playing meath tonite in a challenge, players have been told not to give out venue, has anyone any clues where it is cos wouldnt mind slipping up to it
Any work on Tommy Freeman's appeal to the DRA?
Quotearmagh playing meath tonite in a challenge, players have been told not to give out venue, has anyone any clues where it is cos wouldnt mind slipping up to it
Post it up here, so that Banty can take a spin up to it. ::)
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2009, 10:46:07 AM
Quotearmagh playing meath tonite in a challenge, players have been told not to give out venue, has anyone any clues where it is cos wouldnt mind slipping up to it
Post it up here, so that Banty can take a spin up to it. ::)
The result of that would be interesting as Meath need to up a gear too
Quote from: JMohan on June 26, 2009, 12:55:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2009, 10:46:07 AM
Quotearmagh playing meath tonite in a challenge, players have been told not to give out venue, has anyone any clues where it is cos wouldnt mind slipping up to it
Post it up here, so that Banty can take a spin up to it. ::)
The result of that would be interesting as Meath need to up a gear too
The result of that would tell you little or nothing about what's likely to happen next Saturday. It's a glorified training session.
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2009, 01:10:06 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 26, 2009, 12:55:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2009, 10:46:07 AM
Quotearmagh playing meath tonite in a challenge, players have been told not to give out venue, has anyone any clues where it is cos wouldnt mind slipping up to it
Post it up here, so that Banty can take a spin up to it. ::)
The result of that would be interesting as Meath need to up a gear too
The result of that would tell you little or nothing about what's likely to happen next Saturday. It's a glorified training session.
Usually, yes, but this close to the game you'll learn a bit. Otherwise it wouldn't be secret!
If Vernons back I would fancy Armaghs chance against Monaghan. I would play him in the half forwards and play to his strenghts i.e running at pace with the ball. That would move Stevie back in the FF line with clarke. I would also bring young mc kenna into the side. Backs would remain unchanged. Last chance saloon for hearty though...
Will be a very interesting game, Monaghan a battle hardened experienced team (unlucky this past few seasons) against a younger lighter Armagh team in transition. I took a lot of positives out of the Tyrone game, while i know Tyrone had another gear, we still scored 1-10 or so against them, which is no mean feat...
Armagh by 2 points....
Then pints after ;)
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2009, 10:37:32 AM
Any work on Tommy Freeman's appeal to the DRA?
Says in Gaelic Life today that the appeal is being heard on Tuesday.
it'll be a better contest if freeman plays, though i'd be confident of andy mallon marking him.
Quote from: Schkite on June 26, 2009, 02:06:36 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2009, 10:37:32 AM
Any work on Tommy Freeman's appeal to the DRA?
Says in Gaelic Life today that the appeal is being heard on Tuesday.
The length of time it takes to process these cases is ridiculous - that will be more than 5 weeks after the game.
Quote from: BerfArmagh on June 26, 2009, 02:03:00 PM
If Vernons back I would fancy Armaghs chance against Monaghan. I would play him in the half forwards and play to his strenghts i.e running at pace with the ball. That would move Stevie back in the FF line with clarke. I would also bring young mc kenna into the side. Backs would remain unchanged. Last chance saloon for hearty though...
Will be a very interesting game, Monaghan a battle hardened experienced team (unlucky this past few seasons) against a younger lighter Armagh team in transition. I took a lot of positives out of the Tyrone game, while i know Tyrone had another gear, we still scored 1-10 or so against them, which is no mean feat...
Armagh by 2 points....
Then pints after ;)
A feed of pints ...
I think the Armagh half forward line is the place for Vernon and the key line for Armagh as Monaghan will drop men back and they need ball winners and carriers there to carry the ball through to scoring ranges.
The other line Armagh need to correct is the half back line, if it doesn't have enough pace then they will be run at all day and Monaghan pulling men back will create the space for that.
Weather will be a factor too. Wet day might suit Armagh a little more.
half forward wasn't the place for vernon last year.
where in particular is the pace problem in armagh's half back line?
Quote from: Maguire01 on June 26, 2009, 01:10:06 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 26, 2009, 12:55:47 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 26, 2009, 10:46:07 AM
Quotearmagh playing meath tonite in a challenge, players have been told not to give out venue, has anyone any clues where it is cos wouldnt mind slipping up to it
Post it up here, so that Banty can take a spin up to it. ::)
The result of that would be interesting as Meath need to up a gear too
The result of that would tell you little or nothing about what's likely to happen next Saturday. It's a glorified training session.
Could be interesting though, if Meath decide to go back to basics.
Quote from: Aghdavoyle on June 26, 2009, 03:21:23 PM
half forward wasn't the place for vernon last year.
Correcto, he also detested playing the position.
The option I'd like to see is Vernon in MF, Toner to FB, Donaghy to WHB, and it is obviously what they were thinking before Charlie got the jaw broke.
There's no way they were thinking about playing lavery before Vernon got his jaw broke.
fair play to lavery he did a decent job aerially against a poor tyrone midfield in that respect but i wouldn't be playing him against monaghan.
a month out from the tyrone game we'd all have choked on the thought of lavery playing against tyrone. he played because he was the only fit midfielder left.
We were concerned about Lavery, but he made a case for himself in the Tyrone game. The arrangement proposed by Bennydorano means that Lavery keeps a place at the expense of Moriarty, which may well reflect their current form.
I believe Benny is correct that they were considering Toner FB. Not sure they had decided totally on Lavery but they were cerationly considering him. McKenna didn't fair too well in All Ireland club final and Gareth O'neill was injured all year. Mind you I hear Gareth is fit and playing well now. Also, having watched a fair few of the legue games this year, I would like to see Charlie in midfield, not HF.
Did anyone hear the piece this morning about one of the guys who's making the lions team tomorrow giving a lot of the credit to Enda mcNulty for his role as a sports psychologist. Wonder does he do anything with the Armagh boys or is he just part o fthe squad?
Quote from: bennydorano on June 26, 2009, 05:50:15 PM
Quote from: Aghdavoyle on June 26, 2009, 03:21:23 PM
half forward wasn't the place for vernon last year.
Correcto, he also detested playing the position.
The option I'd like to see is Vernon in MF, Toner to FB, Donaghy to WHB, and it is obviously what they were thinking before Charlie got the jaw broke.
Not sure how obvious that is benny (though I'd like to see it personally). McDonnell's had 18 months in charge but hasn't used any opportunity to play Toner at full back. Think its worth a go though - the form of Lavery against Tyrone was a huge bonus.
Also agree that Chrlie in the HF line is a non-starter after last year, only one place for Charlie in that Armagh team - midfield.
There's no way they were looking at toner for fb either in my opinion
Any word on how the challenge game went lads?
Lads?
I'm not aware of the exact score but we won by 7 points.
Injuries?
Quote from: JMohan on June 27, 2009, 09:41:29 PM
Injuries?
this is the only news I've heard so far, i'm likely to hear more tomorrow.
Well you know were to post it ... it'll go no further.
Don't see where you're coming from lads with the Toner in full-back scenario.In the first instance,Brendan Donaghy is a full-back that every other county would give their right arm for(if Kerry had a player of his capability at full-back last year they would probably be All-Ireland champions at the minute).In the second instance,Kieran Toner is a midfielder that every other county would give their right arm for,a 21 year old who has been able to hold his own against every midfield that he has been pitted against in this past three championships! In the third instance I think that Kieran Toner would have been given the no.3 jersey if he had been about 20+ years ago and never got a chance to play in any other position,however, I think he just isn't suited to playing full-back in the game as it is played today.
Quote from: bigpaul on June 27, 2009, 09:50:32 PM
Don't see where you're coming from lads with the Toner in full-back scenario.In the first instance,Brendan Donaghy is a full-back that every other county would give their right arm for(if Kerry had a player of his capability at full-back last year they would probably be All-Ireland champions at the minute).In the second instance,Kieran Toner is a midfielder that every other county would give their right arm for,a 21 year old who has been able to hold his own against every midfield that he has been pitted against in this past three championships! In the third instance I think that Kieran Toner would have been given the no.3 jersey if he had been about 20+ years ago and never got a chance to play in any other position,however, I think he just isn't suited to playing full-back in the game as it is played today.
On the contrary, his height and the fact he can hold his own in a tackle shows he's ideally suited to wearing the #3 jersey and do a very fine job of it. In fact, any time I have seen him play in that position, the opposition had problems n getting scores. I believe he played in same position at U-21 level too.
Quote from: ArmaghGAAforum on June 27, 2009, 09:26:07 PM
I'm not aware of the exact score but we won by 7 points.
Thanks.
Sounds like we were well bet.
If you get wind of who played well, scorers etc. lemme know. ;)
Quote from: bigpaul on June 27, 2009, 09:50:32 PM
Don't see where you're coming from lads with the Toner in full-back scenario.In the first instance,Brendan Donaghy is a full-back that every other county would give their right arm for(if Kerry had a player of his capability at full-back last year they would probably be All-Ireland champions at the minute).In the second instance,Kieran Toner is a midfielder that every other county would give their right arm for,a 21 year old who has been able to hold his own against every midfield that he has been pitted against in this past three championships! In the third instance I think that Kieran Toner would have been given the no.3 jersey if he had been about 20+ years ago and never got a chance to play in any other position,however, I think he just isn't suited to playing full-back in the game as it is played today.
Think you're completely exagerating the strengths of Toner and DOnaghy there. They are both very good players but definitely aren't yet the superstars you are pretending they are. Kieran Toner's done alright in the past 3 years, he'd a good 2007 but was outshone by Lavery against Tyrone and doesn't really impose himself on games and dominate the centre area, even at u21 level this year where you'd have been expecting more of a fella with 3 years senior intercounty experience.
The question is, could you seriously say that he would make a better full-back than Brendan Donaghy? He doesn't have the pace to play full-back in the modern game.Brendan Donaghy hasn't had a bad game at full-back this last two years! You take a proven midfielder ,unproven at full-back at senior level, to replace a player who has answered all the questions asked of him at full-back, it just doesn't make sense.
Tac, your point about Toner not imposing himself on games is not relevant when you consider that he is always given a 'holding midfield' role, which makes perfect sense given his defensive abilities. Given his displays over this past three years, which counties have a better 21yo at their disposal?
Quote from: bigpaul on June 28, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
The question is, could you seriously say that he would make a better full-back than Brendan Donaghy? He doesn't have the pace to play full-back in the modern game.Brendan Donaghy hasn't had a bad game at full-back this last two years! You take a proven midfielder ,unproven at full-back at senior level, to replace a player who has answered all the questions asked of him at full-back, it just doesn't make sense.
Tac, your point about Toner not imposing himself on games is not relevant when you consider that he is always given a 'holding midfield' role, which makes perfect sense given his defensive abilities. Given his displays over this past three years, which counties have a better 21yo at their disposal?
When you put it like that... :)
Don't tell any body else though ;)
Quote from: bigpaul on June 28, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
Given his displays over this past three years, which counties have a better 21yo at their disposal?
What age is Niall McKeever?
Niall McCkeever wouldn't lace Toner's boots
Quote from: The GAA on June 28, 2009, 09:34:41 AM
Niall McCkeever wouldn't lace Toner's boots
So why are the Aussies paying big bucks for Niall?
Quote from: ArmaghGAAforum on June 27, 2009, 09:48:26 PM
Quote from: JMohan on June 27, 2009, 09:41:29 PM
Injuries?
this is the only news I've heard so far, i'm likely to hear more tomorrow.
Someone on Orchardcounty said that Charlie started and played well, scoring 1-1. Good news.
I think Toner would be best employed on the subs bench :)
I don't quite understand why some of ye would want to take him away from midfield.
Quote from: The GAA on June 26, 2009, 06:14:28 PM
There's no way they were thinking about playing lavery before Vernon got his jaw broke.
fair play to lavery he did a decent job aerially against a poor tyrone midfield in that respect but i wouldn't be playing him against monaghan.
a month out from the tyrone game we'd all have choked on the thought of lavery playing against tyrone. he played because he was the only fit midfielder left.
Wasn't thinking about Lavery in particular. I was reffering to the Dublin challenge game, McKenna was in MF along with Vernon and Toner played FB (excellently) on Davoren or maybe it was Ross MCConnell - cant mind.
I still think the Toner/Vernon is the preferred partnership, they are both tremendous grafters and I dont think Toner gets the credit he deserves sometimes, but how could you drop Lavery after the Tyrone? It's not going to happen. McDonnell is going to have to disappoint someone.
Its looking more and more like Tommy Freeman will play.....
so what, i'd prefer him to play. ANdy mallon well fit for him
Quote from: PatDaly on June 30, 2009, 02:23:21 PM
Its looking more and more like Tommy Freeman will play.....
Why? Because the Press keep reminding us that his hearing is tonight? Or has something else been unearthed?
Quote from: Main Street on June 28, 2009, 02:43:14 PM
I think Toner would be best employed on the subs bench :)
I don't quite understand why some of ye would want to take him away from midfield.
He's a class act, there are any number of positions he could play very well.
Quote from: bennydorano on June 28, 2009, 07:02:24 PM
Quote from: The GAA on June 26, 2009, 06:14:28 PM
There's no way they were thinking about playing lavery before Vernon got his jaw broke.
fair play to lavery he did a decent job aerially against a poor tyrone midfield in that respect but i wouldn't be playing him against monaghan.
a month out from the tyrone game we'd all have choked on the thought of lavery playing against tyrone. he played because he was the only fit midfielder left.
Wasn't thinking about Lavery in particular. I was reffering to the Dublin challenge game, McKenna was in MF along with Vernon and Toner played FB (excellently) on Davoren or maybe it was Ross MCConnell - cant mind.
I still think the Toner/Vernon is the preferred partnership, they are both tremendous grafters and I dont think Toner gets the credit he deserves sometimes, but how could you drop Lavery after the Tyrone? It's not going to happen. McDonnell is going to have to disappoint someone.
It was Davoren whom Toner marked in the challenge game.
I agree Toner/Vernon is the preferred partnership, I think in the Tyrone game that Toner wasn't 'clicking' as well with Lavery as he does with Vernon for whatever reason(s). Lavery played well in the Tyrone game though and scored 2 points.
I wouldn't like to be Peter McDonnell - then again he could surprise a lot of people including myself by doing something completely different. Just an off the cuff one here, he could play Toner as a half forward linking in with MOR and introduce the likes of Forker and Henderson for scoring opportunities, say Forker as a half forward and Henderson as a corner forward
Did anyone hear what tactics were used against Meath or is that a closely guarded secret for a reason?
Quote from: Smokin Joe on June 28, 2009, 07:13:14 AM
Quote from: bigpaul on June 28, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
Given his displays over this past three years, which counties have a better 21yo at their disposal?
Peter Fitzpatrick
Quote from: The Worker on June 30, 2009, 06:35:30 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on June 28, 2009, 07:13:14 AM
Quote from: bigpaul on June 28, 2009, 12:00:59 AM
Given his displays over this past three years, which counties have a better 21yo at their disposal?
Peter Fitzpatrick
yea he showed well against fermanagh
You have to wonder if the Tommy Freeman saga is now becoming a serious distraction for the other Monaghan players. Even if he wins his appeal with the DRA this entire episode is working in Armagh's favour
Quote from: PatDaly on July 01, 2009, 01:17:01 AM
You have to wonder if the Tommy Freeman saga is now becoming a serious distraction for the other Monaghan players. Even if he wins his appeal with the DRA this entire episode is working in Armagh's favour
How?
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 01, 2009, 08:11:42 AM
Quote from: PatDaly on July 01, 2009, 01:17:01 AM
You have to wonder if the Tommy Freeman saga is now becoming a serious distraction for the other Monaghan players. Even if he wins his appeal with the DRA this entire episode is working in Armagh's favour
How?
Freeman must have been knocked back - was on the rte news late last night - said they where going to the DRA.
Was right
BBC Website
Monaghan's Thomas Freeman will make a last-ditch appeal to the DRA after his latest plea to have his eight-week ban failed on Tuesday evening.
The Central Appeals Committee ruled Freeman's appeal to be "out of order".
Freeman is hoping to be cleared to play against Armagh on Saturday in the qualifiers and his DRA hearing will take place on Wednesday.
Monaghan have no other worries while Armagh will be without Stephen Kernan but Charlie Vernon is available again.
Midfielder Vernon has recovered from a broken jaw which caused him to miss the Ulster SFC defeat by Tyrone.
However, Kernan will miss the game as he requires knee surgery.
Freeman was handed his two-month ban after he was adjudged to have attempted to "strike with the head" in the Ulster SFC defeat by Derry on 24 May.
Tommy Freeman's hopes of playing for Monaghan in this Saturday's All-Ireland Senior Football qualifier against Armagh at Clones have been dealt a major blow, after the GAA's Central Appeals Committee (CAC) turned down the Maghracloone clubman's appeal to his suspension.
At a meeting of the GAA's CAC last night, the committee rejected Freeman's appeal to an eight-week ban, which had been dished out following an incident in the Ulster Senior Football Championship defeat to Derry last month.
The committee refused to hear the case, as he was appealing the decision to commence disciplinary action.
An official GAA statement read: "At a meeting of the Central Appeal's Committee held in Croke Park last night (30.06.09), an appeal from Tommy Freeman (Monaghan) could not be heard, as it is not possible to appeal against the decision to commence disciplinary action, in accordance with Rule 155 (c) (iii) T.O. 2008."
However this saga is set to run for another while at least, with Monaghan County Board officials hoping to pursue the matter through the Disputes Resolution Authority before Saturday's crunch local derby in St Tiernach's Park.
Did Freeman attempt to headbutt? If he did, under no circumstances should the Monaghan Co Board be seeking to get him off!
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 01, 2009, 07:11:06 PM
Did Freeman attempt to headbutt? If he did, under no circumstances should the Monaghan Co Board be seeking to get him off!
Yes - and by that rationale the Derry County Board should not have appealed the Mullan and Doherty sanctions, Tyrone with McMenamin's, Kerry last year with Galvin's...... we all know what happened in these cases... the list goes on. The problem is that if some counties do it (and especially when they are successful), other counties will do likewise - if not they're only disadvantaging themselves.
At the end of the day, the system needs to be sorted and until it is, county boards will play the system.
The county boards are the GAA too, there is no used saying that the system should be fixed. If they weren't trying to defend people breaking the rules there would be no need to change anything.
Philip McEvoy,
Andy Mallon,
Brendan Donaghy,
Barry Shannon,
Aaron Kernan,
Aidan O'Rourke,
Ciaran McKeever,
James Lavery,
Kieran Toner,
Paul Duffy,
Charles Veron,
Brian Mallon,
Martin O'Rourke,
Ronan Clarke,
Super Stevie
Is that your team or Peter's team for Sat. Rufus?
Peter's team, Mike.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 01, 2009, 10:49:52 PM
The county boards are the GAA too, there is no used saying that the system should be fixed. If they weren't trying to defend people breaking the rules there would be no need to change anything.
I agree 100%. But either everybody does it or nobody does it.
Imagine if Monaghan were to beat Armagh and draw Derry in the second round, and Derry had appealed and had both Doherty and Mullan available again, but Monaghan hadn't appealed Freeman - hardly a level playing field.
Well i'm glad at least that McEvoy's being given his chance. Aidan O'Rourke coming back in is a bit of a surprise as is Vernon starting after a bit of a lay off, and named at CHF - it's a tough test for him in light of that injury. Will be interesting to see how Lavery, Toner and Vernon are accomodated together around midfield. It would seem to give Vernon the license to get forward. Lavery deserved another outing after his last performance. Kevin O'Rourke loses out. Hard to know how that line up will do. Bit of strength around the middle, but we need to see more from Kernan and McKeever going forward from half back and the likes of Mallon and Vernon getting forward to support the front 2 and create openings for themselves. I would imagine Martin O'Rourke, Lavery and Toner would keep fort around midfield.
That half back line is the line I'd target if I were Banty ...
I don't think banty could target a dart board with a dart.
Any word on Tommy Freeman's appeal earlier tonight (Wednesday) with the DRA?
Quote from: The GAA on July 02, 2009, 01:19:44 AM
I don't think banty could target a dart board with a dart.
Well me neither ... but that's another story ... it's supposed to be McElkenons team anyway ....
Shud be a good game tho!
According to the BBC Tommy Freeman's final appeal attempt with the DRA was last night (Wednesday)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/northern_ireland/gaelic_games/8128002.stm
but according to the Independent it won't be until Friday night
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/freeman-hopes-rest-on-lastgasp-dra-appeal-1801686.html
Freeman hopes rest on last-gasp DRA appeal
By Donnchadh Boyle
Thursday July 02 2009
IT WILL take a last-gasp reprieve from the DRA tomorrow night for Tommy Freeman to play any part in Monaghan's qualifier clash with Armagh in Clones on Saturday.
After a drawn-out process, Croke Park yesterday confirmed that Freeman's hearing with the CAC (Central Appeals Committee) was unsuccessful and Monaghan will now meet the DRA in Navan in a bid to clear the former All Star.
Farney county top brass have already expressed their dismay at the length of time the process has taken. Freeman was hit with an eight-week ban shortly after their Ulster championship clash with Derry on May 24 and will only know his fate less than 24 hours before they resume their campaign against the Orchard county. As it stands, the Magheracloone man will miss the first three rounds of the qualifiers, should Seamus McEnaney's men make it that far.
Meanwhile, the GAA have released details of ticket packages aimed at enticing the crowds back to the closing stages of the hurling and football campaigns.
After the lowest attendance at a Dublin football match in years, six packages are on offer allowing followers of football and hurling to combine quarter-final and semi-final games in either or both codes. The deals range from €65 to €175 per person with Juvenile packages also on offer. For more information see www.tickets.gaa.ie.
- Donnchadh Boyle
Interesting to note the DRA have their own website http://sportsdra.ie/index.htm
Quote from: JMohan on July 02, 2009, 12:15:27 AM
That half back line is the line I'd target if I were Banty ...
Drive up through the middle I would think..... Surprised that Tony Kernan doesnt start
Quote from: thebandit on July 02, 2009, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: JMohan on July 02, 2009, 12:15:27 AM
That half back line is the line I'd target if I were Banty ...
Drive up through the middle I would think...
Clarke, Vernon, Lavery, Toner, O'Rourke, Donaghy - looks like a strong spine to me.
Happy enough with that lineup. it'll be interesting to see how the forward formation sets up - its not immediately obvious to me unless mallon will be pushed into a more offensive role?
looking at our midfield and defence i'd say driving through the middle will be the last thing on monaghan's mind bandit.
not to question rufus but whre has this team come from? there's nothing with bbc and i understood they didn't train til tonight?
Train on a Wedenssday now I believe GAA.
But still no official team?
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 01, 2009, 11:12:20 PM
Philip McEvoy,
Andy Mallon,
Brendan Donaghy,
Barry Shannon,
Aaron Kernan,
Aidan O'Rourke,
Ciaran McKeever,
James Lavery,
Kieran Toner,
Paul Duffy,
Charles Veron,
Brian Mallon,
Martin O'Rourke,
Ronan Clarke,
Super Stevie
I thought this was the official team ???
Fair enough anyway
MOR will drop out to the middle to pick up the breaking ball
Normally our HF's dont give the front two enough support, but with Vernon's hard running it shouldnt leave Clarke & Stevie isolated
Defence is solid enough. Monaghan would rely on their strength rather than their speed & AOR's physicality would have ensured he got the nod here
While the Tyrone game wasn't the place for AOR this game is, he will match up against Woods I'd imagine so a lack of mobility wouldn't be a major issue. Woods would tend to drop in the midfield area to pick up ball and spray passes about and that would suit Aidan's game. The standard of ball into the forward line which was so poor against Tyrone should improve with Aidan on the field. Glad to see McEvoy get the call up, I hope he goes well, still would rather see David mcKenna on in the HF line instead of P Duffy. Other than that I'd be happy enough with the team but it's the style of play that is the big question. Vernon, McKeever, Kernan, B Mallon all well capable of getting up the field to support Stevie and Clarkie. Remember Vernon's goal against the Dubs last year in the league? We'll have more of that please.................
Big, big pressure on McEvoy now that he has dislodged Hearty.
Quote from: thebandit on July 02, 2009, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: JMohan on July 02, 2009, 12:15:27 AM
That half back line is the line I'd target if I were Banty ...
Drive up through the middle I would think..... Surprised that Tony Kernan doesnt start
No - Monaghan aren't strong enough to drive anywhere against Armagh
You're best bet is to run straight at Kernan, and run and turn the legs of McKeever and O'Rourke and hope for a warm evening too.
Quote from: thebandit on July 02, 2009, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: JMohan on July 02, 2009, 12:15:27 AM
That half back line is the line I'd target if I were Banty ...
Drive up through the middle I would think..... Surprised that Tony Kernan doesnt start
Me too, if only for his free taking! Who will take our frees from the left wing?
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 02, 2009, 11:26:37 AM
Quote from: thebandit on July 02, 2009, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: JMohan on July 02, 2009, 12:15:27 AM
That half back line is the line I'd target if I were Banty ...
Drive up through the middle I would think..... Surprised that Tony Kernan doesnt start
Me too, if only for his free taking! Who will take our frees from the left wing?
Was asking the same on Orchardcounty. I would imagine Stevie or Aidan.
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 01, 2009, 11:12:20 PM
Philip McEvoy,
Andy Mallon,
Brendan Donaghy,
Barry Shannon,
Aaron Kernan,
Aidan O'Rourke,
Ciaran McKeever,
James Lavery,
Kieran Toner,
Paul Duffy,
Charles Veron,
Brian Mallon,
Martin O'Rourke,
Ronan Clarke,
Super Stevie
Just
One Crossmaglen player on this team.
Surely this couldn't be right.
Quote from: Carbery on July 02, 2009, 11:33:16 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 01, 2009, 11:12:20 PM
Philip McEvoy,
Andy Mallon,
Brendan Donaghy,
Barry Shannon,
Aaron Kernan,
Aidan O'Rourke,
Ciaran McKeever,
James Lavery,
Kieran Toner,
Paul Duffy,
Charles Veron,
Brian Mallon,
Martin O'Rourke,
Ronan Clarke,
Super Stevie
Just One Crossmaglen player on this team.
Surely this couldn't be right.
It's fair enough to be honest.
Hearty hasn't been convincing.
Tony must be close while Stephen would have been pushing.
Nobody else really, of course if John Mac was there he'd start.
Quote from: corn02 on July 02, 2009, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: Carbery on July 02, 2009, 11:33:16 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 01, 2009, 11:12:20 PM
Philip McEvoy,
Andy Mallon,
Brendan Donaghy,
Barry Shannon,
Aaron Kernan,
Aidan O'Rourke,
Ciaran McKeever,
James Lavery,
Kieran Toner,
Paul Duffy,
Charles Veron,
Brian Mallon,
Martin O'Rourke,
Ronan Clarke,
Super Stevie
Just One Crossmaglen player on this team.
Surely this couldn't be right.
It's fair enough to be honest.
Hearty hasn't been convincing.
Tony must be close while Stephen would have been pushing.
Nobody else really, of course if John Mac was there he'd start.
C'mon corn, you can be talking about John Mac, that ended a long time ago
Quote from: full back on July 02, 2009, 11:49:11 AM
Quote from: corn02 on July 02, 2009, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: Carbery on July 02, 2009, 11:33:16 AM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 01, 2009, 11:12:20 PM
Philip McEvoy,
Andy Mallon,
Brendan Donaghy,
Barry Shannon,
Aaron Kernan,
Aidan O'Rourke,
Ciaran McKeever,
James Lavery,
Kieran Toner,
Paul Duffy,
Charles Veron,
Brian Mallon,
Martin O'Rourke,
Ronan Clarke,
Super Stevie
Just One Crossmaglen player on this team.
Surely this couldn't be right.
It's fair enough to be honest.
Hearty hasn't been convincing.
Tony must be close while Stephen would have been pushing.
Nobody else really, of course if John Mac was there he'd start.
C'mon corn, you can be talking about John Mac, that ended a long time ago
Yip, if he was still there, I think i'd still find a spot for him.
I know, I would find a spot for him as well, but we are using what-ifs
No point in mentioning a player that hasnt been on the panel this while though
Quote from: corn02 on July 02, 2009, 09:43:52 AM
Quote from: thebandit on July 02, 2009, 09:41:21 AM
Quote from: JMohan on July 02, 2009, 12:15:27 AM
That half back line is the line I'd target if I were Banty ...
Drive up through the middle I would think...
Clarke, Vernon, Lavery, Toner, O'Rourke, Donaghy - looks like a strong spine to me.
I was referring specifically to CHB ;)
Quote from: full back on July 02, 2009, 12:01:44 PM
I know, I would find a spot for him as well, but we are using what-ifs
No point in mentioning a player that hasnt been on the panel this while though
O......k.
It was in reference to a Cross question, and I was answering it, don;t read too much into it.
Quote from: corn02 on July 02, 2009, 12:14:23 PM
Quote from: full back on July 02, 2009, 12:01:44 PM
I know, I would find a spot for him as well, but we are using what-ifs
No point in mentioning a player that hasnt been on the panel this while though
O......k.
It was in reference to a Cross question, and I was answering it, don;t read too much into it.
Get you now :-[
mc evoy
mallon, donaghy, shannon
aor
kernan, MC KEEVER. duffy
toner, vernon, lavery
Mor
mallon, clarke, Stevie
this strikes me as a very conservative team with AOR being picked to play high passes into the full forward line, we seem to be worrying more about monaghan rather than concentrating on our own strengths
McEvoy
Mallon Donaghy Shannon
Aaron O RourkeMcKeever
Lavery Toner Vernon
Duffy O Rourke
Mallon
McDonnell Clarke
i think Naka is probably closer to the truth in the way the team will line up. If woods does go out round the middle and Freeman is passedto play, AOR will sit in the hole between the FB and HB line to pick up the balls being played cross field to Freeman in particular.
Vernon will play in an advanced role but still be effectively a midfielder and Duffy will have licence to roam.
i am worried from an Armagh perspective as I think Banty will create a siege attitude, "they don't want o see us do well, they think we're thiugs, didn't want Tommy to play yadda, yadda," and Monaghan are a dangerous wounded animal. I think there is a serious lack of scoring threat in the forward line with only Clarke and McDonnell being regular score takers and McDonnell is not at full throttle yet.
corn will be glad to see me wishing Philip McEvoy the best ;D. Big game to make your championship debut in and a lot will depend on how reliable his kick outs are.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 02, 2009, 01:04:00 PM
corn will be glad to see me wishing Philip McEvoy the best ;D. Big game to make your championship debut in and a lot will depend on how reliable his kick outs are.
Very decent old chap!
Pressure will be on him big time.
My prference for Monaghan
McBennett
D Mone Corey McArdle
D Freeman McQuaid D Hughes
Lennon Clerkin
McManus Finlay Gollogly
Woods
Hanratty Downey
Substitute options if required - Ronaghan for Hanratty; JP Mone for Lennon; McGuigan for Gollogly;
Also the option for Corey to go up front for Hanratty or Downey and JP Mone to fill in at FB.
Can't see Banty changing anyone bar Tommy (with either Downey or Hanratty) to be honest. But I'd like to see a team along the following lines
. McBennett
D Mone JP Mone McArdle
C McManus McQuaid D Hughes
. Lennon Clerkin
MCGuigan Finlay Gollogly
Woods Corey Downey
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 01, 2009, 11:12:20 PM
Philip McEvoy,
Andy Mallon,
Brendan Donaghy,
Barry Shannon,
Aaron Kernan,
Aidan O'Rourke,
Ciaran McKeever,
James Lavery,
Kieran Toner,
Paul Duffy,
Charles Veron,
Brian Mallon,
Martin O'Rourke,
Ronan Clarke,
Super Stevie
You sure about this Rufus, i asked a few people round the camp and they told me team wasnt announced yet and wouldn't be until 9pm this evening. Your source??
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 02, 2009, 01:37:50 PM
My prference for Monaghan
McBennett
D Mone Corey McArdle
D Freeman McQuaid D Hughes
Lennon Clerkin
McManus Finlay Gollogly
Woods
Hanratty Downey
Substitute options if required - Ronaghan for Hanratty; JP Mone for Lennon; McGuigan for Gollogly;
Also the option for Corey to go up front for Hanratty or Downey and JP Mone to fill in at FB.
You're a Monaghan man and you'd actually prefer to see Hanratty starting on Saturday?
Ronaghan done well against Armagh in the league and I'd imagine Banty will use him there from the start against a quite inexperienced full-back line (bar Mallon). That formation looks a little lightweight up front without him. Really hope Downey is given his chance from the start, we've heard all this crap about Monaghan now having a stronger panel and having faith in the squad. To be honest I don't believe Banty believes that himself, but Downey deserves his chance after his league showings
Quote from: judas1 on July 02, 2009, 04:36:42 PM
You sure about this Rufus, i asked a few people round the camp and they told me team wasnt announced yet and wouldn't be until 9pm this evening. Your source??
Only passing on what I was told, and it came from what I thought would be a reliable source!
Do messengers still get shot around here? :o
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 02, 2009, 06:37:39 PM
Quote from: judas1 on July 02, 2009, 04:36:42 PM
You sure about this Rufus, i asked a few people round the camp and they told me team wasnt announced yet and wouldn't be until 9pm this evening. Your source??
Only passing on what I was told, and it came from what I thought would be a reliable source!
Do messengers still get shot around here? :o
At dawn, withou a condemned man's final meal ;D Ye see that's what ye get for faffing about with the boys on "other" websites :P If you're not careful, I'll get Jimminy Cricket for ye ;D
I think you might not be too far off the mark though. It is interesting how a team which is agreed as being the most consistently successful team in Ireland over the last 10 can on,y produce 1 starter on the county team. I know there are many factors etc, but you would find in most counties the champions have at least 2-3 starters. BTW, I am not suggesting that the players who are down to start do not deserve their places, it is simply an observation.
Quote from: ExiledGael on July 02, 2009, 06:02:48 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 02, 2009, 01:37:50 PM
My prference for Monaghan
McBennett
D Mone Corey McArdle
D Freeman McQuaid D Hughes
Lennon Clerkin
McManus Finlay Gollogly
Woods
Hanratty Downey
Substitute options if required - Ronaghan for Hanratty; JP Mone for Lennon; McGuigan for Gollogly;
Also the option for Corey to go up front for Hanratty or Downey and JP Mone to fill in at FB.
You're a Monaghan man and you'd actually prefer to see Hanratty starting on Saturday?
Ronaghan done well against Armagh in the league and I'd imagine Banty will use him there from the start against a quite inexperienced full-back line (bar Mallon). That formation looks a little lightweight up front without him. Really hope Downey is given his chance from the start, we've heard all this crap about Monaghan now having a stronger panel and having faith in the squad. To be honest I don't believe Banty believes that himself, but Downey deserves his chance after his league showings
Ronaghan plays best coming on as a sub. He came on as a sub against Armagh in the league and made a difference, whereas in games where he has started, he has been less effective. In Tommy's absense, Hanratty should at least win a few frees off Armagh's defence for Finlay to pop over. I also expect Hanratty to prove his doubters wrong one of these days - he hasn't been playing particularly well this year, and a lot of it is probably down to confidence at this stage, but I think his form will return.
I agree that Downey should have a starting place, and expect he will - I think it was a bad move to drop him from the starting 15 against Derry.
If we're having problems winning ball in the forward line, we have the options of pushing Corey up or bringing Ronaghan, or even Benny McKenna on.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 02, 2009, 06:45:53 PM
Ye see that's what ye get for faffing about with the boys on "other" websites :P
But I like orchardcounty!! ;D
Rufus
I was tlaking to one of the Armagh players today and he told me he didn't know the team as it hadn't been announced. Are you Peter McD?
Great to see McEvoy get a chance.
Hopefully that will be the end of Hearty
Quote from: john mcgill on July 02, 2009, 09:20:49 PM
Rufus
I was tlaking to one of the Armagh players today and he told me he didn't know the team as it hadn't been announced. Are you Peter McD?
Rufus is a good reflection of PMcD (using one of those circus mirrors)
i'll go a bit against ya Rufus and hazzaed a guess on:
Hearty
A Mallon Donaghy Shannon
A Kernan K McKeever Finn Mo
Toner
Lavery
M O'Rourke B Mallon (An other) i'd love to say Vernon but i heard earlier he's not ready. ???
S McDonnell R Clarke K O'Roruke
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 02, 2009, 06:37:39 PM
Quote from: judas1 on July 02, 2009, 04:36:42 PM
You sure about this Rufus, i asked a few people round the camp and they told me team wasnt announced yet and wouldn't be until 9pm this evening. Your source??
Only passing on what I was told, and it came from what I thought would be a reliable source!
Do messengers still get shot around here? :o
Any predictions for the game outcome Rufus?
McEvoy
A Mallon Donaghy Shannon
A O'Rourke
A Kernan K McKeever Duffy
Toner
Lavery
M O'Rourke B Mallon
S McDonnell R Clarke K O'Rourke
Quote from: john mcgill on July 02, 2009, 09:20:49 PM
Rufus
I was tlaking to one of the Armagh players today and he told me he didn't know the team as it hadn't been announced. Are you Peter McD?
Yes, I was expecting the team to be announced officially today myself so now I'm not so sure!! :-\
Quote from: Main Street on July 02, 2009, 10:34:08 PM
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 02, 2009, 06:37:39 PM
Quote from: judas1 on July 02, 2009, 04:36:42 PM
You sure about this Rufus, i asked a few people round the camp and they told me team wasnt announced yet and wouldn't be until 9pm this evening. Your source??
Only passing on what I was told, and it came from what I thought would be a reliable source!
Do messengers still get shot around here? :o
Any predictions for the game outcome Rufus?
Before the start of the Ulster Championship I would not have fancied our chances against Monaghan. I would now be more confident of a victory and that would increase if Tommy Freeman doesn't play, as I don't believe Monaghan have very much strength in depth, i.e. not much beyond their first fifteen.
Monaghan to my mind are a good team (top ten) but they are by no means world beaters. In recent league games I felt that we played them whilst missing a few, and with a bit of luck could have come out on top. Monaghan won both gmes narrowly. It's not great logic, but the respective performances of Derry and Armagh against Tyrone makes me feel that we are maybe better than I had previously thought (although we're definitely no world beaters), and with Clarke and Stevie hopefully both playing in the full forward line, I would hope we just have the edge in terms of scoring ability.
Armagh by two (I hope).
Ciaran Hanratty has been handed a starting role in the Monaghan attack in place of the suspended Thomas Freeman for the qualifier against Armagh.
Hanratty, who was a substitute in the defeat by Derry, comes in after Freeman failed in an attempt to get an eight-week suspension overturned.
Armagh's Charlie Vernon has to make do with a place on the subs' bench after recovering from a broken jaw.
However, Stephen Kernan misses the game as he requires knee surgery.
Freeman was handed his two-month ban after he was adjudged to have attempted to "strike with the head" in the Ulster SFC defeat by Derry on 24 May.
Armagh boss Peter McDonnell had sportingly said that hoped Freeman would be cleared to play in Saturday's crunch clash.
"If he is not available for Monaghan, he obviously would be a huge loss because he is a tremendous player."
It's certainly going to be a huge, huge challenge for us but we need that challenge
Armagh manager Peter McDonnell
McDonnell insists that he was delighted when the draw pitted his side against Monaghan, in the tie of the round.
"As a group, we were sitting down and all hoping for the most difficult opponents, the most experienced team in the hat and we got that in Monaghan.
"It's certainly going to be a huge, huge challenge for us but we need that challenge.
"We need to know where we're at. We need to answer that question."
McDonnell added there is a "tremendous spirit" in his squad going into Saturday's game.
"They are a tremendous bunch of men to work with. We'll be keen to get stuck into this game."
The Armagh manager has also paid tribute to Antrim's achievement in reaching the Ulster final.
"Antrim have really ignited this championship campaign for Gaels all over the country. It has been wonderful and magnificent.
"I'd have to qualify that by saying that I have a lot of good friends in Tyrone but I would say to Antrim, 'Go for it. There's nothing to be afraid of. Embrace the challenge and you never know what might happen'."
Monaghan: P Bennett; D Mone, V Corey, D McArdle; D Freeman, G McQuaid, D Hughes; JP Mone, D Clerkin; S Gollogly, P Finlay, C McManus; C Hanratty, R Ronaghan, R Woods.
Armagh: P Mc Evoy; A Mallon, B Donaghy, B Shannon; A O'Rourke, C McKeever, A Kernan; K Toner, J Lavery; P Duffy, M O'Rourke, B Mallon; S McDonnell, R Clarke, K O'Rourke.
official team announced for saturday
http://armaghgaa.info/forum/f5/armagh-v-monaghan-round-1-qualifier-4-july-167/index2.html#post1023
JP on ahead of Lennon! :o Much bigger news than Hanratty starting imo, and that in itself is a good call I think as he'll win frees at the very worst, and surely to god he's due a big game soon! As good a time as ever to step up when Tommy is out. Downey again a bit hard done by but he'll come on no doubt and is a good option off the bench along with McGuigan. If it lines out that way it will be very interesting indeed, and it will answer the questions some of us were asking before as to whether or not JP would be a viable option at midfield for the county. But as we all know it's very possible there'll be a change or two.
Only one Crossmaglen player on the whole team
Not even one forward from the leagues highest scorers and table toppers
Quote from: armaghniac on July 02, 2009, 10:54:31 PM
Monaghan: P Bennett; D Mone, V Corey, D McArdle; D Freeman, G McQuaid, D Hughes; JP Mone, D Clerkin; S Gollogly, P Finlay, C McManus; C Hanratty, R Ronaghan, R Woods.
JP at midfield is an interesting move - will be good to see how that works. I wonder is there anywhere else for Lennon if JP was doing well? Has he been played anywhere else for the county?
Downey is very unlucky again not to get a start, but he's a good option to bring on.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 02, 2009, 06:45:53 PM
. It is interesting how a team which is agreed as being the most consistently successful team in Ireland over the last 10 can on,y produce 1 starter on the county team. I know there are many factors etc, but you would find in most counties the champions have at least 2-3 starters. BTW, I am not suggesting that the players who are down to start do not deserve their places, it is simply an observation.
Very weird indeed, but with TK, SK and Hearty very close I suppose it's not too bad. On a side note, I see Skinny is with the panel, I didn't realise he was still there. Why is junior McKeown not on it?
Quote from: Shortso79 on July 02, 2009, 11:14:45 PM
Only one Crossmaglen player on the whole team
Not even one forward from the leagues highest scorers and table toppers
aye sure root the ball into mcdonnell and clarke. you dont need anyone else to score, they can all come and stand in the half back line and let kevin o rourke run the legs of himself tryin to link up the play.....
Would it be fair to say that thats a pretty poor Armagh half forward line? Think this is one Armagh still need to improve on. Looking forward to the game, first good knockout game of the summer. Would make Armagh slight favourites but really could go either way.
I thought martin o'rourke was absolutly brutal against Tyrone... kicked a lot of possession away with very poor passes to mcDonnell. Couldnt believe he wasnt taken off much earlier. Jess they really miss Oisin and those boys tho they were still fairly good
Quote from: Shortso79 on July 02, 2009, 11:14:45 PM
Only one Crossmaglen player on the whole team
Not even one forward from the leagues highest scorers and table toppers
What would your six forards be, something like...
McNamee Tony Mac SK
Tk Hanratty Oisin
Could be welll off there, but that's two retired, one injured and probably would havve started, one very, very close and two who aren't on the squad, I don't understand your gripe.
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 02, 2009, 11:16:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 02, 2009, 10:54:31 PM
Monaghan: P Bennett; D Mone, V Corey, D McArdle; D Freeman, G McQuaid, D Hughes; JP Mone, D Clerkin; S Gollogly, P Finlay, C McManus; C Hanratty, R Ronaghan, R Woods.
JP at midfield is an interesting move - will be good to see how that works. I wonder is there anywhere else for Lennon if JP was doing well? Has he been played anywhere else for the county?
Unless Dick played at wing-forward as he has done before, or JP playing wing-back so the three of them would be in the middle in some way, I couldn't imagine Lennon playing anywhere else other than midfield whereas the other two have. Didn't they play like that in 2007 up until Vinny moved up front and Jp was moved back to full-back and stayed there? It was a move that was coming with Lennon being off form, and if it had to be made I'm glad it's JP going there rather than someone like Benny. Even if Conlon was still on the panel I don't think he'd have been considered by Banty.
I repeat my concern which I indicated earlier, who have we that can be relied on to successfully take frees from the left? Stevie McD, yes, but I'd prefer someone of greater consistency!
I can't understand why Stefan Forker is not part of the Armagh starting 15. Armagh need players who can consistently score and Forker with only a 5 minute opportunity against Tyrone showed what he's capable of.
Is Eoin Lennon carrying a knock or is he dropped based on recent form??
Quote from: Shortso79 on July 02, 2009, 11:14:45 PM
Only one Crossmaglen player on the whole team
Not even one forward from the leagues highest scorers and table toppers
the boys who score the most for Cross have opted out of the panel, SK is injured, TK hasnt cut the mustard yet, McKeown didnt want to be in the panel.
Fecking get over it, this is ARMAGH not CROSS AND OTHERS
my understanding is that CV will play but I don`t know who he will replace
Quote from: naka on July 03, 2009, 11:10:35 AM
my understanding is that CV will play but I don`t know who he will replace
Kevin O'Rourke wont start from what I hear.
maybe duffy will loose out
Quote from: illdecide on July 03, 2009, 11:33:22 AM
maybe duffy will loose out
No, he's playing wing back, with Aidan O'Rourke playing as spare man.
Quote from: Shortso79 on July 02, 2009, 11:14:45 PM
Only one Crossmaglen player on the whole team
Not even one forward from the leagues highest scorers and table toppers
Give over would ya? No other Cross player should start. Armagh are bigger than Crossmaglen.
Funny I'd heard the same team as Rufus had yesterday. Wondering what thebandit means by his comment above? Is Charlie likely to start ahead of Kevin? Wasn't overly enthused by the team I'd heard yesterday as Rufus had - seemed like Peter McDonnell was repeating a lot of the mistakes of 2008 - Aidan O'R at CHB, Charlie in the half forwards and only 2 scoring forwards. Bit happier with Kevin O'Rourke starting (if he does). If Charlie's fit, I'd taken him on for Aidan O'Rourke rather than Kevin O'Rourke.
Would worry a bit about Aidan at this level though the points about Woods' lack of pace and Aidan excellent distribution are well made. Still think starting Aidan leaves us committed to 7 men in defence which is something I'd like to see us get away from.
Tac that is the way it will line out, with AOR playing the sweeper role. Maybe negative but at this stage, until all are fit and available results are all that matter so you can see Peter's point of view. He can't lose this game because the vultures will circle(incorrectly) over his head given the success in Kildare.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 03, 2009, 12:26:30 PM
Tac that is the way it will line out, with AOR playing the sweeper role. Maybe negative but at this stage, until all are fit and available results are all that matter so you can see Peter's point of view. He can't lose this game because the vultures will circle(incorrectly) over his head given the success in Kildare.
who apart from sk are we waiting on
even with this team i still feel armagh by 4
Quote from: naka on July 03, 2009, 12:37:34 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 03, 2009, 12:26:30 PM
Tac that is the way it will line out, with AOR playing the sweeper role. Maybe negative but at this stage, until all are fit and available results are all that matter so you can see Peter's point of view. He can't lose this game because the vultures will circle(incorrectly) over his head given the success in Kildare.
who apart from sk are we waiting on
even with this team i still feel armagh by 4
Well Marty and Vernon are reportedly not at the top of their fitness levels, which is a set back. McDonnell has had a lot of misfortune too I feel.
corn noted about mor and cv but i still feel we should be more positive with our team selection, we are only playing with 3 recognised scorers in stevie, clarke and brian mallon,
at present we have 7 defenders playing, and probably 3 midfielders leaving mor and the keeper,
I would have liked to play forker or henderson and am dissappointed that mc kenna hasnt stepped up to the plate
Wouldn't be my preferred lineout, if they play as selected and it goes wrong then Mcdonnell will have few, if any excuses. He has chosen to play AOR which does near automatically committ us to a sweeper system, could be the right call for this game, but then again...
Of the new breed of forwards, Forker is by far and the away the most impressive I've seen (although not blessed with great speed), I'd like to see him in at some stage.
I fully expect Charlie to start.
How much is it in tomorrow? Any child prices/places available?
Quote from: bennydorano on July 03, 2009, 01:18:17 PM
Wouldn't be my preferred lineout, if they play as selected and it goes wrong then Mcdonnell will have few, if any excuses. He has chosen to play AOR which does near automatically committ us to a sweeper system, could be the right call for this game, but then again...
Of the new breed of forwards, Forker is by far and the away the most impressive I've seen (although not blessed with great speed), I'd like to see him in at some stage.
I fully expect Charlie to start.
How much is it in tomorrow? Any child prices/places available?
15 euro terrace, 20 for stand I believe Benny.
Quote from: corn02 on July 03, 2009, 01:23:34 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 03, 2009, 01:18:17 PM
Wouldn't be my preferred lineout, if they play as selected and it goes wrong then Mcdonnell will have few, if any excuses. He has chosen to play AOR which does near automatically committ us to a sweeper system, could be the right call for this game, but then again...
Of the new breed of forwards, Forker is by far and the away the most impressive I've seen (although not blessed with great speed), I'd like to see him in at some stage.
I fully expect Charlie to start.
How much is it in tomorrow? Any child prices/places available?
15 euro terrace, 20 for stand I believe Benny.
Heard (or read) somewhere it was €10 into the terrace.
From HS main page about ticket packages
"The GAA has also finalised admission prices for this weekend's GAA All-Ireland Football Championship qualifier games. Entry to stands will cost Eu20 and admission to terraces has been reduced by Eu5 to 10."
I bow to TAC's greater knowledge.
Heard that Charlie won't be starting but will definitely come on. This thing about the lack of Cross players is a crock of sh1t, Cross's best players have retired from inter county football and some of the younger breed didn't get the opportunity to play their way onto the county team during the league. For me, David McKenna and Paul McKeown COULD be big additions to the team with Paul McKeown opting not to take up a place in the panel, nothing McDonnell can do about that.
Quote from: PatDaly on July 03, 2009, 04:35:44 AM
I can't understand why Stefan Forker is not part of the Armagh starting 15. Armagh need players who can consistently score and Forker with only a 5 minute opportunity against Tyrone showed what he's capable of.
I agree 100%. The team for tomorrow smacks too much of a "fear of losing" mentality and I think more firepower up front is needed and someone like Forker can provide it. I'd have a concern that Vernon, if he plays and bearing in mind his recent injury, might just be less than totally committed in going for 50/50 ball.
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 03, 2009, 01:46:10 PM
Quote from: PatDaly on July 03, 2009, 04:35:44 AM
I can't understand why Stefan Forker is not part of the Armagh starting 15. Armagh need players who can consistently score and Forker with only a 5 minute opportunity against Tyrone showed what he's capable of.
I agree 100%. The team for tomorrow smacks too much of a "fear of losing" mentality and I think more firepower up front is needed and someone like Forker can provide it. I'd have a concern that Vernon, if he plays and bearing in mind his recent injury, might just be less than totally committed in going for 50/50 ball.
Not Charlie, the man will give 100% as usual (I know you weren't implying he wouldn't), I would have no fears about this.
Forker will be on at some stage, he will have plenty of time to live up to the hype.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 03, 2009, 11:38:57 AM
Quote from: Shortso79 on July 02, 2009, 11:14:45 PM
Only one Crossmaglen player on the whole team
Not even one forward from the leagues highest scorers and table toppers
Give over would ya? No other Cross player should start. Armagh are bigger than Crossmaglen.
Funny I'd heard the same team as Rufus had yesterday. Wondering what thebandit means by his comment above? Is Charlie likely to start ahead of Kevin? Wasn't overly enthused by the team I'd heard yesterday as Rufus had - seemed like Peter McDonnell was repeating a lot of the mistakes of 2008 - Aidan O'R at CHB, Charlie in the half forwards and only 2 scoring forwards. Bit happier with Kevin O'Rourke starting (if he does). If Charlie's fit, I'd taken him on for Aidan O'Rourke rather than Kevin O'Rourke.
Would worry a bit about Aidan at this level though the points about Woods' lack of pace and Aidan excellent distribution are well made. Still think starting Aidan leaves us committed to 7 men in defence which is something I'd like to see us get away from.
The team I head has 7 defenders, with Duffy dropping back, and Vernon on the 40, with Kevin O'Rourke losing out.
I think it is
Mc Evoy
A Mallon
Donaghy
Moriarty
A O'Rourke
A Kernan
C McKeever
P Duffy
Toner
Lavery
M O'Rourke
Vernon
Mallon
Clarke
McDonnell
Quote from: corn02 on July 03, 2009, 01:32:37 PM
I bow to TAC's greater knowledge.
quite happily i'd bet, with an extra fiver yo-yos in your back pocket!
Quote from: eireogatron on July 03, 2009, 03:00:42 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 03, 2009, 01:32:37 PM
I bow to TAC's greater knowledge.
quite happily i'd bet, with an extra fiver yo-yos in your back pocket!
;)
QuoteMonaghan v Armagh
Friday, 3 July 2009 11:45
By Séamus Leonard
Monaghan face their biggest game this decade when they face up to neighbours Armagh in what promises to be the clash of the round on Saturday evening in Clones.
Armagh are still in a transitional process and while victory would be preferable, Peter McDonnell's side have a distance to travel no matter what the result.
For the Farney and manager Seamus McEnaney in particular, however, defeat would mean the end of the road. While they have been one of the best teams in the country in recent years, they have neither an Ulster title nor even an All-Ireland final appearance to show for it.
For one reason or another they have always fallen short, though tough draws in the qualifier system have played a part.
There has been much focus on whether Monaghan corner-forward Tommy Freeman will be available for the game. The Magheracloone clubman was banned for eight weeks following the feisty Ulster quarter-final against Derry.
The fact that his case will now not be settled until 24 hours before Saturday's game is an indictment of the inefficiency of the current disciplinary system. Monaghan's clash with Derry took place way back on 24 May.
There were signs that the negative press that followed that game had helped galvanise McEnaney and his players. However, there is little doubt that the Freeman affair will have had a destabilising effect on preparations, no matter what the DRA eventually decide.
Should Freeman miss out, it will fall to the likes of Paul Finlay and Rory Woods to assume more responsibility in the forward line. The former is normally quite reliable, but Woods will need to be more hot than cold if his side are to progress.
Armagh, for their part, have been going along virtually unnoticed, buoyed by their performance against Tyrone, if not by the result.
The Orchard County will be without Stephen Kernan after he underwent knee surgery, but they have Charlie Vernon back in the mix after his recovery from a broken jaw.
The key for the 2002 All-Ireland champions will be the quality of service they provide to Ronan Clarke and Steven McDonnell. The pair made hay with the few early, direct balls they received against Tyrone.
Monaghan won the league clash between the sides back in March by two points, but that will have no bearing on this game whatsoever.
If McEnaney can get his men feeling angry, rather than sorry for themselves, they might just live to fight another day.
Verdict: Monaghan
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2009/0703/footballqualifiersr1_monaghan_v_armagh.html
Im really mystified by the team selection, we went out last year against Wexford to not loose the game, we still managed to loose and the manager promised a different approach for this year, yes we got a different approach than last year, we are more negative than ever, we have seven out and out defenders starting the game and the only source of scores available will be from Stevie nad Clarkie. Maybe im wrong, but are players not picked on form, we see from the team selection that Dromintee who have won a league title a couple of years ago an d have never won a single senior county championship in their history have four statrers in the team for Saturday yet Crossmaglen who will win the league this weekend if they win on Sunday night and have 13 consecutive County Championships will have only one starter on the team and even then he will be played out of his normal starting position to accomodate Aidan O'Rourke. Does the Armagh manager have a bias against Crossmaglen players or does their past form and current league standing count for nothing, im totally miffed on this one. Come on manager have some belief in your players, take the reins off and lets give the qualifiers a dam good lash, if the manager doesnt show belief in his team with his selection and tactics how does this transalate to the players on the pitch, time to cast off the negativity, LETS GO FOR IT.
Quote from: friend on July 03, 2009, 03:44:35 PM
Im really mystified by the team selection, we went out last year against Wexford to not loose the game, we still managed to loose and the manager promised a different approach for this year, yes we got a different approach than last year, we are more negative than ever, we have seven out and out defenders starting the game and the only source of scores available will be from Stevie nad Clarkie. Maybe im wrong, but are players not picked on form, we see from the team selection that Dromintee who have won a league title a couple of years ago an d have never won a single senior county championship in their history have four statrers in the team for Saturday yet Crossmaglen who will win the league this weekend if they win on Sunday night and have 13 consecutive County Championships will have only one starter on the team and even then he will be played out of his normal starting position to accomodate Aidan O'Rourke. Does the Armagh manager have a bias against Crossmaglen players or does their past form and current league standing count for nothing, im totally miffed on this one. Come on manager have some belief in your players, take the reins off and lets give the qualifiers a dam good lash, if the manager doesnt show belief in his team with his selection and tactics how does this transalate to the players on the pitch, time to cast off the negativity, LETS GO FOR IT.
And the worst first post of all time goes to.....
This isn't Dromintee or Crossmaglen, this is Armagh.
Might not be Dromintee or Crossmaglen but its fast becoming Dromintee.
Quote from: friend on July 03, 2009, 04:00:55 PM
Might not be Dromintee or Crossmaglen but its fast becoming Dromintee.
And what's your point? Shannon and McEvoy there on merit. Shannon marked Penrose out of it and he showed against Derry how handy he is.
Marty had a poor one against Tyrone but is a very valuable asset. Aidan starting is certainly open to debate but, as has been stated, jis passing and strenght would appear to suit this game.
Again i'll say it, this isn't Dromintee, this isn;t Crossmaglen, it is Armagh.
Donaghy play with Clonmore in the lower leagues, should he be dropped? Vernon , Toner, Lavery and Kevin O'Rourke play in division two, should they be dropped?
So you can cut that crap out.
Just noticed on my point there, a third of our starting 15 play outside the top league while our best club team provides one player, it is strange alright, but fair enough.
Am i right in thinking that Tyrone co champions don't have one member on Tyrone panel ?
Cant and wont criticise Aidan O'Rourke, will always hold him as a GOD for the inch perfect passs he gave Stevie to score the winner in the All Ireland final in 2002, I just think that we are not being positive enough and I find it hard to believe that Cross have only one player good enough to play on the county team and to back my argument I was using past and present form. Armagh played Meath in a challenge game the other night and racked up a score of 2-18, Tony kernan and Stephan Forker scored four points each in the half game that they were given, I would like to see them included somewhere from the start, I know it was only a challenge match but I feel that we should approach this game with a more positive attitude and out of the starting forwards on Saturday I can only see Stevie and Clarkie being the only constant threat, maybe Charlie will net us a goal but I think that perhaps Duffy and Marty O'Rourke should make way for TK and SF. Stephan Forker showed us in five minutes against Tyrone what he is capable of and Tony Kernan showed in the league what he is capable of. I know that Peter probably wants to go with experience but players will only get experience by being given games, do you not agree that when Armagh went for Tyrone in the last 20 minutes of the game on 31st may that we were the much better team, let other teams worry about Armagh instead of Armagh worrying about the opposition. By the way I support neither Dromintee or Cross and have no bias either way.
Quote from: friend on July 03, 2009, 04:20:30 PM
Cant and wont criticise Aidan O'Rourke, will always hold him as a GOD for the inch perfect passs he gave Stevie to score the winner in the All Ireland final in 2002, I just think that we are not being positive enough and I find it hard to believe that Cross have only one player good enough to play on the county team and to back my argument I was using past and present form. Armagh played Meath in a challenge game the other night and racked up a score of 2-18, Tony kernan and Stephan Forker scored four points each in the half game that they were given, I would like to see them included somewhere from the start, I know it was only a challenge match but I feel that we should approach this game with a more positive attitude and out of the starting forwards on Saturday I can only see Stevie and Clarkie being the only constant threat, maybe Charlie will net us a goal but I think that perhaps Duffy and Marty O'Rourke should make way for TK and SF. Stephan Forker showed us in five minutes against Tyrone what he is capable of and Tony Kernan showed in the league what he is capable of. I know that Peter probably wants to go with experience but players will only get experience by being given games, do you not agree that when Armagh went for Tyrone in the last 20 minutes of the game on 31st may that we were the much better team, let other teams worry about Armagh instead of Armagh worrying about the opposition. By the way I support neither Dromintee or Cross and have no bias either way.
Totally agree about the last 20 minutes against Tyrone, and Marty set up 1-1 in that time.
I just don't understand what Dromintee has got to do with it. The four boys are there and deserve to be there. You talk about Tony proving in the league, well Shannon and McEvoy proved in the league that they are good enough too so I don;t see the issue.
And for the record I have SK and TK in my first 15. It's opinion and there are 20 boys who could start, there club is irrelevant.
Yes Madddog, Clonoe have noone on it, weird one too.
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 03, 2009, 01:46:10 PM
Quote from: PatDaly on July 03, 2009, 04:35:44 AM
I can't understand why Stefan Forker is not part of the Armagh starting 15. Armagh need players who can consistently score and Forker with only a 5 minute opportunity against Tyrone showed what he's capable of.
I agree 100%. The team for tomorrow smacks too much of a "fear of losing" mentality and I think more firepower up front is needed and someone like Forker can provide it. I'd have a concern that Vernon, if he plays and bearing in mind his recent injury, might just be less than totally committed in going for 50/50 ball.
Speaking to someone who was at Meath challenge game who said Vernon was deadly and Meath didn't know what to do with him, 'men were hanging off him' as he ran at them; doesn't smack off someone afraid of a dig.
Thats was a pretty stupid post BTW those 4 or 5 Dromintee lads are quality players and are on the Armagh squad on ability, as for your comment about Cross yes it is a bit shocking to see they only have one player on the starting team but could and will have a whole lot more when the time is right for one reason or another.
Well I hope this puts a final end to the idea often found on forums that Cross runs the County Board, the county team, the Diocese and everything else. It is great to see Armagh using all of the talent at their disposal and several Cross lads are not far away and keeping the pressure for places on the team. The Cross players will suffer least from lack of big game exposure with the county, as they will have other tough games with big crowds etc. MOR wasn't the best against Tyrone, but someone suggested that he had an injury. He has played very effectively in several league games this year and deserves a chance to recover that form. Not playing Vernon from the start, if in fact this is the case, might be a sign of confidence that he will have several other games to play in. If (big If) we can beat Monaghan then the only better teams in the next round are Kerry and Derry, there is a 50/50 chance that Monaghan could be the best team you'd meet until the QFs.
If we were to be be very harsh we could argue that the sole cross representative is actually very lucky ti be playing.
Although he is obviously a quality footballer, he has contributed virtually nothing this year in the league or championship outside of free kicks.
the club thing is irrelevent. anyone arguing that x or y should be playing based on what club they're from or even on club performances are deluding themselves.
The simple fact is that Cross as a whole are the sum of the parts and the difference is as a club team have no weak links, whereas other club teams have one or two who you always feel you could exploit. I will lose no sleep over the team selection and think that the best team is moreorless picked given the available players.
Agree with a lot of the sentiment here about worries on the lack of scoring forwards, but if they scored 2-18 last week then they must be doing something right. Hopefully we're still in it in 4 weeks and have seen the best team by then!!
In an earlier post Bandit said Moriarity to start instead of Shannon? Any truth in that
Quote from: BroJolly on July 03, 2009, 07:47:29 PM
Agree with a lot of the sentiment here about worries on the lack of scoring forwards, but if they scored 2-18 last week then they must be doing something right. Hopefully we're still in it in 4 weeks and have seen the best team by then!!
In an earlier post Bandit said Moriarity to start instead of Shannon? Any truth in that
Correct me if I'm wrong but of the 2-18 scored against Meath I believe 1-9 was scored by 3 lads that likely won't play tomorrow night against Monaghan. Tony Kernan got 0-04, Stefan Forker got 0-04 and Charlie Vernon got 1-01. As far as I know Jamie Clarke is a big part of why Cross have already sewn up the league just after the half way point yet he's not even part of the Armagh set-up. A very very sad indictment of the Armagh management indeed! Quite obviously not a thing has been learnt from the pitiful experience against Wexford last August in Croke Park.
Jamie Clark will have many big days for Armagh in his career. I can't see how his absence says anything about the lessons learned from the Wexford game. Armagh lacked a sense of urgency last year. This year they at least managed to come back against Tyrone. I hope they will go at Monaghan like men with a mission.
Anyone got a direct line to the DRA decision? What time is it expected?
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 03, 2009, 09:38:24 PM
Anyone got a direct line to the DRA decision? What time is it expected?
Call, send a text or e-mail the DRA and see if you get a response
Contact Details
The Secretary, DRA, 1, Chapterhouse, Friar's Mill Road, Mullingar, Co. Westmeath
044 9348412 and 087 6631111
044 9343619
secretary@sportsdra.ie
http://sportsdra.ie/dracontact.htm
QuoteClones: Monaghan v Armagh, 7.00pm
Without a doubt, this is the pick of the Round One Qualifier ties. One of these two Ulster heavyweights will be out of the Championship on Saturday night, something neither will have envisaged at the start of the year.
Monaghan have the edge in that they have enjoyed successful campaigns in the back door in each of the last two season. Armagh, however, have a habit of winning the Ulster title, with their solitary campaign in the Qualifiers over the last number of years coming in 2007, when they were dumped out at the first hurdle by Derry.
It promises to be a tough, physical battle in Clones, with Monaghan likely to stick with the style of football they employed in the narrow Ulster defeat to Derry at Celtic Park. Armagh are no shrinking violets either and it could be a real heavyweight slugfest.
"I suppose if you play football in Ulster, the physical nature of the game is something you expect from every side. It's not something we have been focusing too much on – it's just part and parcel of it," Armagh defender Aaron Kernan said in an interview with GAA.ie.
"It's a physical game and I suppose that's the part everyone loves to come and see in Championship football – and the intensity.
"That's what we have prepared for all year long, from the first training session and there are so many drills there to try and replicate that intensity.
"It's something that every team will have coached into them and hopefully it won't come as a shock to the system.
"The Tyrone match was an intense match, but I have a notion that this might be a step up from that. It's two big teams and it could be the end of the season very early for either of us."
Armagh boss Peter McDonnell is without Stephen Kernan, who has a knee injury, while Charlie Vernon is held in reserve despite recovering from a broken jaw.
For Monaghan, Ciaran Hanratty is named in the side at corner forward in place of the suspended Tommy Freeman. John Paul Mone gets the nod ahead of Eoin Lennon in midfield.
If Armagh can reproduce the form they showed in patches during the three-point defeat to Tyrone, they should be too good for a somewhat one-dimensional Monaghan side.
Monaghan: P Bennett; D Mone, V Corey, D McArdle; D Freeman, G McQuaid, D Hughes; JP Mone, D Clerkin; S Gollogly, P Finlay, C McManus; C Hanratty, R Ronaghan, R Woods.
Armagh: P Mc Evoy; A Mallon, B Donaghy, B Shannon; A O'Rourke, C McKeever, A Kernan; K Toner, J Lavery; P Duffy, M O'Rourke, B Mallon; S McDonnell, R Clarke, K O'Rourke.
http://www.gaa.ie/plugins/newsfeed.cgi?rm=content&plugin_data_id=27113
1 all.
Another big game for Peter McDonnell with the pressure on i think if Armagh go out with a whimper.
Without being too smart about it, i think we're going to need Aidan O'Rourke back sweeping up - neither Duffy (if he does drop back) or Kernan are the greatest of defenders. The flipside is that they have the ability to keep Monaghan on the backfoot by pressing forward at the right time. I'd like to see the likes of Forker or Henderson get a bit of game time tomorrow, coming off the bench for at least 15/20 mins - we've got to blood these guys sooner or later.
QuoteAnother big game for Peter McDonnell with the pressure on i think if Armagh go out with a whimper.
The pressure is on if Armagh go out, no matter what the manner of the defeat.
This game could be a potential banana-skin for Managhan if they're not careful
QuoteThis game could be a potential banana-skin for Managhan if they're not careful
You don't say.
Quote from: under the bar on July 03, 2009, 11:26:45 PM
This game could be a potential banana-skin for Managhan if they're not careful
What a load of crap. That's what you say when you're playing a division 4 team and underestimating them, not a team that you're pretty much on the same level as.
Quote from: balladmaker on July 03, 2009, 11:35:03 PM
QuoteThis game could be a potential banana-skin for Managhan if they're not careful
You don't say.
He's a WUM. Best ignoring, he has delusions of grandeur too so really better not to feed his ego
Quote from: drici on July 04, 2009, 12:04:47 AM
Tomás Freeman will not be playing in tonight's Qualifier.
No joy for him with the DRA.
Pity.
It's called "comeuppance"! I wonder if Freeman had connected with his attempted headbutt, would the Monaghan Co Board have appealed?
Quote from: drici on July 04, 2009, 12:04:47 AM
Tomás Freeman will not be playing in tonight's Qualifier.
No joy for him with the DRA.
And if Monaghan were to win tonight, he won't be available for rounds 2 or 3 either.
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 04, 2009, 10:40:36 AM
It's called "comeuppance"! I wonder if Freeman had connected with his attempted headbutt, would the Monaghan Co Board have appealed?
Well look at other counties - Derry appealed the sanctions of both Doherty and Mullan from the same game and they both connected. Anyway, i don't see how that's relevant at this stage.
Although just thinking about it, I don't think Monaghan appealed McQuaid's 8-week ban for his strike in the game against Fermanagh last year - that might give you some indication.
I think its fair it didn't get overturned but when you compare it to other counties and situtions where they got overturned it just makes it clear the system just doesn't work.
I think the 8 weeks was harsh in this case .... however I've no sympathy for the man in question at all. He's had that coming a long time.
Wet day today in Clones - should suit Armagh slightly in my opinion.
Quote from: JMohan on July 04, 2009, 11:46:12 AM
I think the 8 weeks was harsh in this case .... however I've no sympathy for the man in question at all. He's had that coming a long time.
::)
Got a text saying the game may be in doubt due to the weather, anyone hear anything?>
Is the weather bad down there?
Just thinking - they can't really pull it if round 2 is next Saturday!
Raining here at the minute, looks like heavy showers for most of the afternoon.
The weather forecast suggests that the rain will move off, to be replaced by showers. Unless there happens to be a local deluge in Clones this won't be problem. Let battle commence!
Rain has cleared. Anyone else hear that Heart chinned A O R at trainin during the week?
Quote from: Yes I Would on July 04, 2009, 01:33:38 PM
Rain has cleared. Anyone else hear that Heart chinned A O R at trainin during the week?
Well they do say that a good Heart these days is hard to find.
Quote from: ArmaghGAAforum on July 04, 2009, 11:30:50 AM
I think its fair it didn't get overturned but when you compare it to other counties and situtions where they got overturned it just makes it clear the system just doesn't work.
Don't know about that. Derry played it smart. They got professional-level advice from the start and challenged the category of the charges and the penalties, but accepted some guilt. This was at the "proposed sanction" stage so there was nothing to "appeal" or "overturn".
Monaghan, according to Banty's own admission, went in initially with no advice or professional-level representation demanding to get the charge dismissed. This was always doomed to failure as there was clear evidence to support a charge of some wrong-doing (attempted, failed, or otherwise!) on Freeman's part. After this challenge failed they were into "appeals" looking to overturn a "conviction". A much stickier process now that procedures have been tightened up.
So actually, I think the system is working to some (imperfect) degree. Derry were punished for their indiscretions with sanctions. Monaghan were punished for (some of) their indiscretions and have now paid for their arrogant and machismo approach to the disciplinary process to the tune of €30K or more. They will be a bit more circumspect (and practical) in their appeals in the future.
Doherty, Mullan and Freeman let themselves down on the field. Monaghan CB and their manager let Freeman down off the field.
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on July 04, 2009, 01:40:27 PM
Quote from: ArmaghGAAforum on July 04, 2009, 11:30:50 AM
I think its fair it didn't get overturned but when you compare it to other counties and situtions where they got overturned it just makes it clear the system just doesn't work.
Don't know about that. Derry played it smart. They got professional-level advice from the start and challenged the category of the charges and the penalties, but accepted some guilt. This was at the "proposed sanction" stage so there was nothing to "appeal" or "overturn".
Monaghan, according to Banty's own admission, went in initially with no advice or professional-level representation demanding to get the charge dismissed. This was always doomed to failure as there was clear evidence to support a charge of some wrong-doing (attempted, failed, or otherwise!) on Freeman's part. After this challenge failed they were into "appeals" looking to overturn a "conviction". A much stickier process now that procedures have been tightened up.
So actually, I think the system is working to some (imperfect) degree. Derry were punished for their indiscretions with sanctions. Monaghan were punished for (some of) their indiscretions and have now paid for their arrogant and machismo approach to the disciplinary process to the tune of €30K or more. They will be a bit more circumspect (and practical) in their appeals in the future.
Doherty, Mullan and Freeman let themselves down on the field. Monaghan CB and their manager let Freeman down off the field.
And the Derry CB let the association down by supporting thugs!
Quote from: OverThePostsAWide on July 04, 2009, 01:40:27 PM
Quote from: ArmaghGAAforum on July 04, 2009, 11:30:50 AM
I think its fair it didn't get overturned but when you compare it to other counties and situtions where they got overturned it just makes it clear the system just doesn't work.
Don't know about that. Derry played it smart. They got professional-level advice from the start and challenged the category of the charges and the penalties, but accepted some guilt. This was at the "proposed sanction" stage so there was nothing to "appeal" or "overturn".
Monaghan, according to Banty's own admission, went in initially with no advice or professional-level representation demanding to get the charge dismissed. This was always doomed to failure as there was clear evidence to support a charge of some wrong-doing (attempted, failed, or otherwise!) on Freeman's part. After this challenge failed they were into "appeals" looking to overturn a "conviction". A much stickier process now that procedures have been tightened up.
So actually, I think the system is working to some (imperfect) degree. Derry were punished for their indiscretions with sanctions. Monaghan were punished for (some of) their indiscretions and have now paid for their arrogant and machismo approach to the disciplinary process to the tune of €30K or more. They will be a bit more circumspect (and practical) in their appeals in the future.
Doherty, Mullan and Freeman let themselves down on the field. Monaghan CB and their manager let Freeman down off the field.
I don't know that it was about Monaghan being 'arrogant' or 'machismo' - probably more naive or ill advised. Amateur even. ::)
But is it right that this whole process is effectively being turned into a legal battlefield? In the long run, this could end up with those counties with the resources (i.e. best legal expertise and most money) at their disposal being better equipped to appeal each and every sanction handed out. That's hardly a level playing field, or within the spirit of the games.
I think this is new territory for some county boards and it is clear that some, including Monaghan's, aren't as savvy as others.
Monaghan still not over that one!
Derry playing today are they?
Quote from: JMohan on July 04, 2009, 02:01:32 PM
Monaghan still not over that one!
Derry playing today are they?
Wise up. If you can't figure out why Freeman's ban and appeal is relevant to today's match...
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 04, 2009, 01:57:28 PM
I don't know that it was about Monaghan being 'arrogant' or 'machismo' - probably more naive or ill advised. Amateur even. ::)
Agreed. I was thinking more of Banty's "manliness" and "all in the game" quotes in the press. he can make Pieter de Villiers look like wallflower sometimes :D
Lots of heavy showers about. Bring a coat, do not bring a Brolly.
Is this game on BBC NI? or just RTE. If not are they showing any Ulster team games.
It's just on RTE
mms://live2.wm.rte.servecast.net/rte_wmlz_rte2-450.wmv
watch it here on RTE
or
http://www2.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=42864&part=sports
The best team won the minor, Armagh should have put it beyond doubt earlier.
Quote from: theoriginalmup on July 04, 2009, 05:02:23 PM
mms://live2.wm.rte.servecast.net/rte_wmlz_rte2-450.wmv
watch it here on RTE
[/quote
thanks
Martin Carney:
''Again this....again we see.....again whats happening is.....again thats a poor effort.....again for the first time.....again and again and again and again''
Ref seems to have something against Clarke.
Woods would need a yellow soon!
Seeing it again Red would be better!!
Quote from: Carmen Stateside on July 04, 2009, 07:26:47 PM
Woods would need a yellow soon!
Yeah, he should have walked.
Monaghan fans have a Brolly is a tool banner behind the goals :D
If I were an Armagh fan I'd not be too happy with that ref...
Woods should have walked and Clarke getting a yellow was a joke.
On top of that Clarke was clearly fouled in a few of the early attacks and got no free.
An absolutely shocking game of football where the skill level is so bad its disturbing that these teams are supposedly top 8 teams..
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 04, 2009, 07:43:49 PM
An absolutely shocking game of football where the skill level is so bad its disturbing that these teams are supposedly top 8 teams..
Turn it off then.
Armagh just need to keep the heads cool and play their football. Monaghan acting the c***ts and I expect them to be worse in the second half.
The way some of them Monaghan boys go down holding their faces when they were hit nowhere near it is disgusting.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 07:49:57 PM
The way some of them Monaghan boys go down holding their faces when they were hit nowhere near it is disgusting.
Aye, and they're doing plenty of hitting themselves!
Clarke and Kernan need to be careful
Dreadful advertisment for Gaelic Football. Monaghan are the most horrible team to play against
They're a blight. Dessie Mone goes out from start to finish of a game to get his man sent off. He never won one ball all day and got McDonnell wound up enough to get him sent off. Job done.
well if McDonell fell for it he's the bigger clown.why did he throw the elbow back for
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 08:28:08 PM
They're a blight. Dessie Mone goes out from start to finish of a game to get his man sent off. He never won one ball all day and got McDonnell wound up enough to get him sent off. Job done.
Agree totally!
Dodgy free at end :)
Armagh back to fifteen now.
They should just throw both sides out. Two shocking sides.
Has been very poor!
Can someone explain what these guys do in training???
Dire rubbish.
Armagh might improve. Monaghan are a blight on the game.
Derek Fahy is an absolute disgrace. From the first ball that went in to Ronan Clarke he has been riding Armagh. What is it with Longford referees and the Orchard men.
Even Lyons and Flynn in the studio are better than the football - that says it all!
Really looking forward to extra time ,
Still dont want to meet either next week in their back yard
It's like watching two rugby teams.
There are only 3 lads in each side that are allowed kick the ball.
Armagh were horrible against Tyrone. They're worse today.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 04, 2009, 08:38:28 PM
It's like watching two rugby teams.
There are only 3 lads in each side that are allowed kick the ball.
Never seen rubbish like it.
Forker doing well since he has come in. Whats this fella Henderson like did he recently score 4 goals in a friendly?
Brutal game.
There's very little pace in either side.
Tyrone physically are on a different planet to every other team in Ulster.
How the hell is Martin ORourke still on. Brutal. Hes so dam slow. Bound to be a better CHF in Armagh.
70 frees in 80 odd minutes of football!!!
Are Monaghan the anti-football of the GAA?
Quote from: longball on July 04, 2009, 08:48:12 PM
How the hell is Martin ORourke still on. Brutal. Hes so dam slow. Bound to be a better CHF in Armagh.
I agree .How many times him and Vernon given the ball away ?
This is caveman stuff.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 04, 2009, 08:51:34 PM
70 frees in 80 odd minutes of football!!!
Are Monaghan the anti-football of the GAA?
Armagh gave away more frees though...
Neither team wants to win this both seem like there afraid of losing. Both teams have a ball of players back. Dire stuff. Stevy McDonald finished as a corner forward IMO. May give u something at CHF but hasnt the pace for the corner anymore. In fairness you couldnt get much worse of a CHF than the one thats on at the min.
This is where the "systems" mentality gets you.
a match has broken out!
shows you how bad this game is when the commentator says something like that, its dire
Quote from: longball on July 04, 2009, 08:56:08 PM
Neither team wants to win this both seem like there afraid of losing. Both teams have a ball of players back. Dire stuff. Stevy McDonald finished as a corner forward IMO. May give u something at CHF but hasnt the pace for the corner anymore. In fairness you couldnt get much worse of a CHF than the one thats on at the min.
Do you not think if you actually kicked the ball into him and Clarke quickly you might get success - just like you did against Tyrone for a period of time...
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 04, 2009, 09:00:05 PM
Quote from: longball on July 04, 2009, 08:56:08 PM
Neither team wants to win this both seem like there afraid of losing. Both teams have a ball of players back. Dire stuff. Stevy McDonald finished as a corner forward IMO. May give u something at CHF but hasnt the pace for the corner anymore. In fairness you couldnt get much worse of a CHF than the one thats on at the min.
Do you not think if you actually kicked the ball into him and Clarke quickly you might get success - just like you did against Tyrone for a period of time...
I am from Tyrone. Naw think McDonald is finished as a CF any decent corner back will be too sharp for him
Looks like its Monaghans now.
Wanta be the first to say ONL dry the eyes.
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 04, 2009, 08:55:06 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on July 04, 2009, 08:51:34 PM
70 frees in 80 odd minutes of football!!!
Are Monaghan the anti-football of the GAA?
Armagh gave away more frees though...
Aware of that but singled out Monaghan because they were also involved in the other foul fest against Derry.
Up there with worst games I've ever seen. Armagh are on a road to nowhere.
Christ that was bad.
Why would you saunter through the centre of the field hopping and soloing the ball when you know time is almost up?
KICK IT IN!
If Armagh had kicked the ball in the ref would have waited for the ball to go dead.
Why were they so averse to kicking it in all game?
I don't know what to say but I'm not sure Ulster teams are playing football anymore, take Tyrone out of the province and it is woeful stuff. At this stage you'd have to say Ulster football is over defensive, over cynical, over tactical and over rated.
Thank the lord Armagh are out. Ugly headless football.
Quote from: Jinxy on July 04, 2009, 09:11:50 PM
Why would you saunter through the centre of the field hopping and soloing the ball when you know time is almost up?
KICK IT IN!
If Armagh had kicked the ball in the ref would have waited for the ball to go dead.
Why were they so averse to kicking it in all game?
In fairness Jinxy monaghan have 12 men behind the ball. What Armagh didn't do was draw them out and then kick it in.
No they won't they are finished as a serious team for the foreseeable future.
Quote from: Lazer on July 04, 2009, 09:16:21 PM
Long Live Armagh! They will come back again!
Afraid not. Armagh are back where they belong a la 82-99. Those Cross boys were a special bunch.
McDonnell will be under big pressure to hang onto his job now. They don't seem to be going anywhere and if people were critical of Derry in the manner they played against Tyrone then the same criticism should be directed at Armagh. Didn't appear to be any leadership, fight or game plan. That is surely the end of the 2 O'Rourkes in an Armagh team. Clarke was fighting a lone battle up front all day long. Very very poor showing from Armagh.
Quote from: longball on July 04, 2009, 09:01:47 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 04, 2009, 09:00:05 PM
Quote from: longball on July 04, 2009, 08:56:08 PM
Neither team wants to win this both seem like there afraid of losing. Both teams have a ball of players back. Dire stuff. Stevy McDonald finished as a corner forward IMO. May give u something at CHF but hasnt the pace for the corner anymore. In fairness you couldnt get much worse of a CHF than the one thats on at the min.
Do you not think if you actually kicked the ball into him and Clarke quickly you might get success - just like you did against Tyrone for a period of time...
I am from Tyrone. Naw think McDonald is finished as a CF any decent corner back will be too sharp for him
Looks like its Monaghans now.
Wanta be the first to say ONL dry the eyes.
Sure he's a Down man. Armagh lost him a big bet though!
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2009, 09:19:43 PM
Quote from: Lazer on July 04, 2009, 09:16:21 PM
Long Live Armagh! They will come back again!
Afraid not. Armagh are back where they belong a la 82-99. Those Cross boys were a special bunch.
That was an eejit using my login! Up Down!
:D
Hard to notice any quality there but that was a lovely match winning strike from Finlay at the end.
I wouldn't like to have lost (thrown away) a game like that.
very competitive stuff, a lot of intensity and altogether a fine way to spend a Saturday evening.
I think some of you boys would be better off watching soaps or something, clearly little interest in the games beyond knocking them.
a lot of players in the armagh team look very out of shape
even mcdonnell has an extra few pounds on
Shocking crap. For me Monaghan are bring negative defensive tactics to a new level. I've always resisted saying this in the past but something needs to be done with the rules to stop this muck. It is impossible to enjoy an ulster match anymore and I hate to see teams that take this tactic on win matches. Armagh were also terrible, some of their shooting was abysmal - an awaful pity as they were one of my favorite teams to watch over previous years.
Armagh fouls 46
Monaghan fouls 35
Just like in the Tyrone game Armagh should have easily been beaten by double scores. Stevie McDonnell's outward showing of frustration resulting in his sending off is understandable given he realises that apart from himself and Ronan Clarke, armagh are one of the worst starting 15 in Irleand.
Quotevery competitive stuff, a lot of intensity and altogether a fine way to spend a Saturday evening.
I think some of you boys would be better off watching soaps or something, clearly little interest in the games beyond knocking them.
Will you give over, there was no inensity in that match, it was played at snail's pace, devoid of any good football and was riddled with cynical play acting. Though I'd have to say the ref blew for every little thing and some of the 'frees' were no such thing but even taking that into account there was nothing to recommend this game.
Quote from: An Laoch on July 04, 2009, 09:29:26 PM
very competitive stuff, a lot of intensity and altogether a fine way to spend a Saturday evening.
I think some of you boys would be better off watching soaps or something, clearly little interest in the games beyond knocking them.
A lot of lads trying to look intense and failing miserably more like.
Seems like a few posters with axes to grind about Armagh come in to childlessly gloat.
Tyrone were pressed hard enough to go clear at the end against Armagh.
I don't know what happened to Armagh in the second half, they were cleaned out in midfield, a few too many slowcoaches but regardless of the quality absent from both teams, all the fouls, Monaghan still had to work hard to beat Armagh.
This was a typical first round qualifier, I didn't expect anything more. There is always the remote control if the standard on offer is beneath you.
Yeoooooow!
Great result. Not too bothered whether or not neutrals enjoyed the game - it was an exciting place to be this evening for both sets of supporters and was in the balance for 90 minutes.
I thought Monaghan could have wrapped it up in normal time, with some bad misses from frees. Yes, there were a lot of mistakes and some poor play, but it was a very intense game. Good to see Monaghan not falling apart without Tommy Freeman - there's no doubt he was sorely missed this evening, but it's nice to get the result without him.
Has their been a good game of football since Kerry v Galway in the Croke Park floods? Because everybody on the forums and on the media payroll seems to think every game is terrible. Tag Rugby the way forward gents? Maybe we should just turn the GAA pro and play Aussie Rules instead?
Quote from: Main Street on July 04, 2009, 09:52:11 PM
Seems like a few posters with axes to grind about Armagh come in to childlessly gloat.
Tyrone were pressed hard enough to go clear at the end against Armagh.
I don't know what happened to Armagh in the second half, they were cleaned out in midfield, a few too many slowcoaches but regardless of the quality absent from both teams, all the fouls, Monaghan still had to work hard to beat Armagh.
This was a typical first round qualifier, I didn't expect anything more. There is always the remote control if the standard on offer is beneath you.
Think Mc Enaeney has brought football to a new low. I know that offends Monaghan people. But the likes of dessie mone do nothing else but try to get heir man sent off. Sad way to play football.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 04, 2009, 10:00:29 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 04, 2009, 09:52:11 PM
Seems like a few posters with axes to grind about Armagh come in to childlessly gloat.
Tyrone were pressed hard enough to go clear at the end against Armagh.
I don't know what happened to Armagh in the second half, they were cleaned out in midfield, a few too many slowcoaches but regardless of the quality absent from both teams, all the fouls, Monaghan still had to work hard to beat Armagh.
This was a typical first round qualifier, I didn't expect anything more. There is always the remote control if the standard on offer is beneath you.
Think Mc Enaeney has brought football to a new low. I know that offends Monaghan people. But the likes of dessie mone do nothing else but try to get heir man sent off. Sad way to play football.
It's called "Keep the score down".
After Ros' awful night against Mayo I'm loath to criticise other Counties but ....Jasus that was awful stuff altogether especially from 2 teams that were potential Quarter finalists in many peoples' views .
If that's the end result of 7/8/9 months training then it's time to effin well abolish training.
If only Central Council could throw both of them out of the Championship for 2 years till they cop on.
I suspect Geezer wont be answering his phone to any calls from Co Armagh for a while. ;)
A number of observations.
1. The lack of a defined tackle is leading to games like this.
2. Fielding as a skill has been destroyed and unless a mark is introduced, there will be no advantage to cathching a ball
3. Reduce the number of players to 11 as there appears to be far too much bunching
4. Allow only 3 consecutive hand passes.
IMO gaelic football in its current guise is on a par with cricket as a viewing spectacle.
Dreadful stuff indeed
QuoteThis was a typical first round qualifier, I didn't expect anything more. There is always the remote control if the standard on offer is beneath you.
Typical head in the sand response from some Ulster posters, we all deserve better than what was served up today.
QuoteHas their been a good game of football since Kerry v Galway in the Croke Park floods? Because everybody on the forums and on the media payroll seems to think every game is terrible. Tag Rugby the way forward gents? Maybe we should just turn the GAA pro and play Aussie Rules instead?
And yet more BS, there was some great games last year and there will be this year but Ulster football men seem to be more interested in the tactics the coach employs than the football played. Flood players back, hold the face after any contact, go down with an 'injury' if the opposition are on top, don't kick unless it's 90:10 blah blah blah. I'm a fan of football innovation but Ulster football is turning into the football equivalent of Jack Charlton soccer.
3. Reduce the number of players to 11 as there appears to be far too much bunching
Feckit lets to the whole hog and introduce a handball and offside rule
There must have been a new world record of face holding set tonight.
Maybe a charge to both Counties of bringing the game into disrepute and ban them for 2010 from Senior competitions.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 04, 2009, 09:09:20 PM
Up there with worst games I've ever seen. Armagh are on a road to nowhere.
Just like the Dubs :D :D :D
Quote from: goh4205 on July 04, 2009, 10:28:57 PM
Quote from: INDIANA on July 04, 2009, 09:09:20 PM
Up there with worst games I've ever seen. Armagh are on a road to nowhere.
Just like the Dubs :D :D :D
Since 2002 :D :D :D
Now, perhaps, you will appreciate the efforts of Kerry to save football from these heathens....
Glad to see Monaghan win but why did they persist in "hoofing" the high ball into their ff line when every hoof came straight back out. Mind you it would be foolish to write them off just yet.
Is this the end of the line for Peter McD and Co?
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 04, 2009, 09:58:00 PM
Yeoooooow!
Great result. Not too bothered whether or not neutrals enjoyed the game - it was an exciting place to be this evening for both sets of supporters and was in the balance for 90 minutes.
I thought Monaghan could have wrapped it up in normal time, with some bad misses from frees. Yes, there were a lot of mistakes and some poor play, but it was a very intense game. Good to see Monaghan not falling apart without Tommy Freeman - there's no doubt he was sorely missed this evening, but it's nice to get the result without him.
In what way?
Quote from: DCR on July 04, 2009, 10:31:19 PM
Glad to see Monaghan win but why did they persist in "hoofing" the high ball into their ff line when every hoof came straight back out. Mind you it would be foolish to write them off just yet.
Is this the end of the line for Peter McD and Co?
This was very stupid alright. One moment that stands out was when it was booted in to Meegan, one of the smallest men on the pitch, who was the only Monaghan man up there surrounded by 4 big Armagh men!
Delighted to get the win. Finlay and McManus stood up for us up front(while still having much room for improvement), while the defence were generally solid. Midfield brutal in first half but big Benny coming on was a help and Lennon improved considerably aswell. Should have wrapped it up much earlier though.
Awful game of course, in case this hasn't been mentioned already. Of course the most important thing for now was to get the win, but we'll need a big improvement.
Can't believe some of this bullshit calling Monaghan the "evil of football" and all the rest, we seem to get the blame for every little incident! Armagh fouled more for a start, yet we get the sole blame (in some parts) for the high free count! Baffling.
Here's hoping for a kind draw tomorrow but I won't be holding my breath!
I thought Finlay took the bull by the horns when it mattered. Was actually surprised by his engine. Woods gave O'Rourke some time of it. Feel sorry for Clarke. A good footballer totally underused.
QuoteCan't believe some of this bullshit calling Monaghan the "evil of football" and all the rest, we seem to get the blame for every little incident! Armagh fouled more for a start, yet we get the sole blame (in some parts) for the high free count! Baffling
Well the fact that too many Monaghan players hold their faces for no reason, too many players get behind the ball and too many of their games descend into games like tonight might explain why people are turning against them. I wouldn't mind but ye don't need to be so defensive and cynical as Monaghan are a decent team.
Finlay did take the bull by the horns when it mattered at the end, but he still missed a few very scorable frees earlier which could have been costly. Good to see McManus step up too, he is still played a bit deep for my liking though. Interesting that he was on of the ones motivating the team in extra time! Good leadership from a young lad.
Haven't read all of the posts. Did anybody mention Woods nipping Stevie Mc Donnell yet? Whilst I dont share half of the hysteria being spouted last couple of pages, there can be no denying he's a dirty kn@cker. I hope he gets pulled for that sh!t!! He's a class talent and if he spent half as much time playin football as actin the bollix, Monaghan would be the better for it!
The RTE cameras actually magnified the incident in the replay to illustrate it better, but them two Feckin amadans Lyons and Flynn never even mentioned it. Fcuk but they're hard to listen to
Quote from: Zulu on July 04, 2009, 10:52:54 PM
QuoteCan't believe some of this bullshit calling Monaghan the "evil of football" and all the rest, we seem to get the blame for every little incident! Armagh fouled more for a start, yet we get the sole blame (in some parts) for the high free count! Baffling
Well the fact that too many Monaghan players hold their faces for no reason, too many players get behind the ball and too many of their games descend into games like tonight might explain why people are turning against them. I wouldn't mind but ye don't need to be so defensive and cynical as Monaghan are a decent team.
You have a point but all I'm saying is that alot of people lay all the blame with Monaghan, while there's clearly two sides whenever there's a game like that. Monaghan have gained somewhat of a reputation over the last while, which is very exaggerated.
I also appreciate what you mean about Monaghan not having to be that defensive, and it's true that Monaghan have playing with an edge, or whatever you want to call it, under Banty. But we've made great strides under him the last few years, and you have to remember we are playing with very limited resources. We're hardly the first team to get men behind the ball, and the rest, but I can't remember another team that got as much criticism.
Sure we're in the next round anyway! Remember, it's not about entertainment! ;)
Just home - worse match that was or will be played this year - glad Armagh out at this stage - it could of gotten embarrassing.
Brutal match though spare me the pious false outrage earlier in the thread.
Very very disappointed tonight. That was pathetic from Armagh. No other word for it. By my reckoning we must have went near an hour of CHampionship football without registering a point from play. All the second half - 35 minutes +, most of the 20 minutes of injury time and probably a few minutes at the end of the first half. To have a statistic like that and only lose by a point is an achievement in itself.
We were absolutely dire and Monaghan should be looking at themselves and wondering how they only beat us by a point after extra time. That said, they have the chance to improve, we don't. We were destroyed at midfield and the ball coming into the forwards in the second half was shcokingly poor. Most of us expected us to start with 7 defenders but we actually kept a traditional shape of most of the early pat of the match. But leaving 6 defenders on 6 Monaghan forwards meant that Aidan O'Rourke was cruelly exposed. When Monaghan drew level at 0-6 a piece early in the second half I think Aidan O'Rourke must have been responsible for at least 4 or 5 of them, either being roasted by his man or fouling. It was sad to see, been a great servant to Armagh but he's just not at the races at this level any more. Martin wasn't much better and to be honest, and it gives me no pleasure to say this, I thought both were lucky to last as long as they did, especially when you consider how ruthlessly Tony Kernan and James Lavery were hauled off (actually I thought Tony Kernan was doing alright).
I could go on about our failings but I'd be here all night. I'm not sure Stevie'll be back next year. Would be a sad way for such a great footballer to end his intercounty career. The one bright note in the match was Brendan Donaghy who I thought was superb, Brian Mallon also had a good game and Andy Mallon defended well overall though gave away a couple of stupid frees. Not sure there's too many others who could say they had a good game tonight.
Referring was poor I felt, fair enough there was a lot of fouling but there was also a lot of needless frees being blown. We certainly benefited from 2 or 3 very scoreable ones, particularly the one to equalise the match but Monaghan got some handy ones themselves.
Great second half performance from the minors though. All Ireland quarter final secured and I'd be hopeful they could go a long way this Summer.
QuoteYou have a point but all I'm saying is that alot of people lay all the blame with Monaghan, while there's clearly two sides whenever there's a game like that. Monaghan have gained somewhat of a reputation over the last while, which is very exaggerated.
I'm not sure it is exaggerated Schkite, from what I've seen in both league and championship it is well deserved. I would have loved to see Monaghan win something these past few years but I'm not sure ye are playing football anymore.
QuoteWe're hardly the first team to get men behind the ball, and the rest, but I can't remember another team that got as much criticism.
In fairness I think many teans have recieved a similar amount of criticizim but Monaghan are taking it to new heights IMO, now don't get me wrong Armagh were brutal as well and IMO but Ulster football is suffering from too much analysis and not enough of focus is on playing football which by the way ye are damn good at when ye want to. The view seemws to be that a coach is only good if he can set up a team defensively but most Ulster teams do quite poorly against southern opposition sand IMO this is because Ulster teams are too defensive.
QuoteBrutal match though spare me the pious false outrage earlier in the thread.
You say that and then go on to back up much of what has been said, it was shocking stuff and there is no doubt that Ulster football is entirely over rated.
armagh were brutal today with no game plan, to scor only 4 points from play in 90 mins football in inexcusable,
i believe peter should resign because i fear he is not the man for the job,
Can anyone confirm just how bad Finian Moriarty's injury is - I assume he must have an injury to be replaced by Aidan O'Rourke.
If their is any justice - Woods should get the same ban as Freeman. He was well caught in the act by the television cameras. Monaghan have brought football too a new low this year. This will be hopefully highlighted on the sunday game. Even a Monaghan player ( i think hughes) going down with the knees on Vernon, at the start of first half, hoping to clash the head. Dirty shower.
QuoteStevie McDonnell's outward showing of frustration resulting in his sending off is understandable given he realises that apart from himself and Ronan Clarke, armagh are one of the worst starting 15 in Irleand.
That's a ridiculous statement. Aaron Kernan is a great footballer. Andy Mallon usually is but I don't understand why he kept stupidly fouling tonight. The FB isn't bad either. They haven't become awful overnight but I would have to question tactics and motivation. Monaghan don't make it pretty but the way they play will trouble almost anyone.
They honestly need to analyse the behaviour of some of them Monaghan boys on video or something. Dessie Mone, your man Woods, Corey and Dick Clerkin are at a serious amount of badness in every game they play. Corey could be a great footballer too if it wasn't for that. Dessie Mone would be a half decent half back - he's poor at corner back and his behaviour is a disgrace. Woods could be really good too. Clerkin isn't great though.
Honestly you don't need to resort to that. Limited resources you keep saying. They're not that limited. Finlay, Corey, Woods, the freemans, mcquaid, lennon etc are all very good footballers. They'll never be remembered as that as current rate.
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on July 04, 2009, 11:24:56 PM
If their is any justice - Woods should get the same ban as Freeman. He was well caught in the act by the television cameras. Monaghan have brought football too a new low this year. This will be hopefully highlighted on the sunday game. Even a Monaghan player ( i think hughes) going down with the knees on Vernon, at the start of first half, hoping to clash the head. Dirty shower.
What did Woods do? Did Stevie deserve the red?
Couldn't get over Vinny Corey's blatant attempt to get Ronan sent off. Would have expected better.
I thought McManus was the best of the young lads. He has taken the step up well and will be a key player.
Clerkin looked to be out of puff after 10 minutes. Eoin Lennon did well to come into it more in the 2nd half.
Quote from: Zulu on July 04, 2009, 11:20:12 PM
QuoteYou have a point but all I'm saying is that alot of people lay all the blame with Monaghan, while there's clearly two sides whenever there's a game like that. Monaghan have gained somewhat of a reputation over the last while, which is very exaggerated.
I'm not sure it is exaggerated Schkite, from what I've seen in both league and championship it is well deserved. I would have loved to see Monaghan win something these past few years but I'm not sure ye are playing football anymore.
What have you seen in the league to suggest this? We played some brilliant stuff in the league this year. It's only in the last two games that it's got that bad, and again it's not just down to us.
Quote
In fairness I think many teans have recieved a similar amount of criticizim but Monaghan are taking it to new heights IMO, now don't get me wrong Armagh were brutal as well and IMO but Ulster football is suffering from too much analysis and not enough of focus is on playing football which by the way ye are damn good at when ye want to. The view seemws to be that a coach is only good if he can set up a team defensively but most Ulster teams do quite poorly against southern opposition sand IMO this is because Ulster teams are too defensive.
You've a good point there about how Ulster football has gone, too much analysis and not enough football. But that's the way it's been going for a while, and we were whipping boys in this way of playing as it's hard to combat with little resources and a small pool of players. So we adapted and we're now in a position of actually competing. I'm sorry if we can't play like Tyrone or Kerry but we have to make do with what we have.
I still don't think we've took it to new heights at all though.
Quote from: Carbery on July 04, 2009, 11:24:48 PM
Can anyone confirm just how bad Finian Moriarty's injury is - I assume he must have an injury to be replaced by Aidan O'Rourke.
How did this man stay on the field - brutal!
The rte cameras showed him and another monaghan player holding a Armagh player ( ithink McDonnell or Clarke) and he is seen punching him off the ball.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 04, 2009, 11:26:32 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on July 04, 2009, 11:24:56 PM
If their is any justice - Woods should get the same ban as Freeman. He was well caught in the act by the television cameras. Monaghan have brought football too a new low this year. This will be hopefully highlighted on the sunday game. Even a Monaghan player ( i think hughes) going down with the knees on Vernon, at the start of first half, hoping to clash the head. Dirty shower.
What did Woods do? Did Stevie deserve the red?
Couldn't get over Vinny Corey's blatant attempt to get Ronan sent off. Would have expected better.
I think Woods did the same as Steven McDonnell, strike to the face.
I'd keep an open mind on Vinny Corey, he looked to have got a whack on his collar bone.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 04, 2009, 11:26:32 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on July 04, 2009, 11:24:56 PM
If their is any justice - Woods should get the same ban as Freeman. He was well caught in the act by the television cameras. Monaghan have brought football too a new low this year. This will be hopefully highlighted on the sunday game. Even a Monaghan player ( i think hughes) going down with the knees on Vernon, at the start of first half, hoping to clash the head. Dirty shower.
What did Woods do? Did Stevie deserve the red?
Couldn't get over Vinny Corey's blatant attempt to get Ronan sent off. Would have expected better.
Mone held on to him after the ball had gone and he threw the elbow back. Understandable, but stupid.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 11:25:48 PM
QuoteStevie McDonnell's outward showing of frustration resulting in his sending off is understandable given he realises that apart from himself and Ronan Clarke, armagh are one of the worst starting 15 in Irleand.
They honestly need to analyse the behaviour of some of them Monaghan boys on video or something. Dessie Mone, your man Woods, Corey and Dick Clerkin are at a serious amount of badness in every game they play. Corey could be a great footballer too if it wasn't for that. Dessie Mone would be a half decent half back - he's poor at corner back and his behaviour is a disgrace. Woods could be really good too. Clerkin isn't great though.
Sorry but this is complete bullshit. First of all Corey is very rarely involved in any "badness", I don't know where you got that from. Very lazy statement. I was disappointed to see him go down holding his face for no reason, but apart from that what did he do? Have known him for years and he's not that type of player at all, very honest. He was one of the few players to not get involved in any bullshit in the Derry game and was one of our best players.
Dessie is a very good corner-back, look at how much he concedes from his men! None from play again tonight. Poor corner-back? He's had 2 all-star nominations in the last 2 years, he's hardly poor.
Wish Woods could focus more on the football though, the game mostly passed him by tonight while he was messing with the Armagh boys. He's a fantastic player though, our best against Kerry the last 2 years, MOTM in 07.
Just in myself and there's not much more to be said, awaful.
Must have been where I was sittinhg but I thought Marty had a grand game, won plenty of break and was an effective link man, also made a number of strong tackles. Bit harsh I thought.
Aidan was not at the races, no surprise to see him come off.
McEvoy steady and dealt well with what he had too.
Mallon is just a class act, his anticpation is superb.
I said Donaghy is the best of our young bunch and, again, he was brilliant. Our best player on the field.
Shannon had another good outing. Two matches, both times men taken off. One bad wide.
Aaron was excellent for me. One of our best.
McKeever had possibly his worst outing in an Armagh shirt. A bad day at the office.
Aidan, as stated, was very poor.
Toner. Non exsistent. Has a midfield ever been cleaned out like that before?
Lavery 0- was doing well , must have been injured.
Vernon - In and out. How the ref did not stop the game when he took that big hit was beypond me.
Duffy - didn't want a piece of it. A number of times McEvoy wanted to give him a short kickout and he turned his back.
Marty- In an out but I thought he done well, looks like I'll be on my own.
Mallon - some good play, hosital pass to vernon.
McDonnell - Poor, poor showing. I think he may retire.
Clarke - a gem of a player. Poor man has had every ref sinning against him all year. How he doesn't lose the rag.
Subs
TK - Will never play a worse matc hin his life. People will probably write him off afater this, but the lad has talent. Just a poor day.
Barnsey - very impressive, very direct.
Forker - Looks a good prospect.
PK - One ballk and was skint by Woods for it. Hopefully he devlops and gives us an option.
Henserson - Not much to say.
O'Neill - nice point.
Titch - not much time to make an impact.
Noticed a few of the Armagh team cramping up mid way through the 2nd half of normal time.
I would think their fitness levels should be a lot better than that at this time of the year
Also meant to add, a woprd on the ref - disgrace.
But his performance did not lose it for us, we shoulkd have been well beaten in normal time.
While Armagh fans are the bigges louts, Monaghan fans are the most ignorant bunch I have met.
One positive that hopefully will come out of this - it is if it becomes the end of the PMcD/JK era
Note to Corn on his ratings pretty spot on execpt on McKeever the jb he was given by the clowns management he done it - pity they didnt realise it was a bad tactic
Just reading OrchardCounty and Marty is getting a pasting there too so I could be wrong on that one. I thought he done well, he was in the full back line and in the full forward line, covered some ground. But, as I said, it looks like I am on my own. So willing to be proved wrong.
Schitke Mone is not a great corner back.
McDonnell set up scores and won every ball of him. He's lost a yard of pace and appeared afraid to shoot tonight for some reason. Against Derry Paddy Bradley did likewise and scored two from play. The only reason he only scored two was because every time be beat Mone he'd about two or three others to beat. Not Mone's play I would have said, more that he has people to cover him.
Maybe I'm being harsh on Corey but what he did tonight he did against Derry. He went down holding his face, no-one batted an eyelid, and he kept sneaking a look up to see if the ref or linesman had seen "it". Then when he got no attention he just got up because there was nothing wrong with him. Your goalie did the same... I hate that kind of behaviour.
Quote from: Schkite on July 04, 2009, 11:35:51 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 11:25:48 PM
QuoteStevie McDonnell's outward showing of frustration resulting in his sending off is understandable given he realises that apart from himself and Ronan Clarke, armagh are one of the worst starting 15 in Irleand.
They honestly need to analyse the behaviour of some of them Monaghan boys on video or something. Dessie Mone, your man Woods, Corey and Dick Clerkin are at a serious amount of badness in every game they play. Corey could be a great footballer too if it wasn't for that. Dessie Mone would be a half decent half back - he's poor at corner back and his behaviour is a disgrace. Woods could be really good too. Clerkin isn't great though.
Sorry but this is complete bullshit. First of all Corey is very rarely involved in any "badness", I don't know where you got that from. Very lazy statement. I was disappointed to see him go down holding his face for no reason, but apart from that what did he do? Have known him for years and he's not that type of player at all, very honest. He was one of the few players to not get involved in any bullshit in the Derry game and was one of our best players.
Dessie is a very good corner-back, look at how much he concedes from his men! None from play again tonight. Poor corner-back? He's had 2 all-star nominations in the last 2 years, he's hardly poor.
Wish Woods could focus more on the football though, the game mostly passed him by tonight while he was messing with the Armagh boys. He's a fantastic player though, our best against Kerry the last 2 years, MOTM in 07.
I agree with you on Corey - rarely involved in off the ball stuff
Moen is a t***p though - you have to admit it, and when he comes out with the ball he's the least comfortable of the players on the ball. All Star my eye.
Quote from: Main Street on July 04, 2009, 11:33:04 PM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 04, 2009, 11:26:32 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on July 04, 2009, 11:24:56 PM
If their is any justice - Woods should get the same ban as Freeman. He was well caught in the act by the television cameras. Monaghan have brought football too a new low this year. This will be hopefully highlighted on the sunday game. Even a Monaghan player ( i think hughes) going down with the knees on Vernon, at the start of first half, hoping to clash the head. Dirty shower.
What did Woods do? Did Stevie deserve the red?
Couldn't get over Vinny Corey's blatant attempt to get Ronan sent off. Would have expected better.
I think Woods did the same as Steven McDonnell, strike to the face.
I'd keep an open mind on Vinny Corey, he looked to have got a whack on his collar bone.
Yeah, and he was treated for that but why did he go down clutching his face until he seen the ref wasn't buying it?
As a complete neutral, I thought the ref gave alot of 50 50s to Monaghan.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 11:45:23 PM
Schitke Mone is not a great corner back.
McDonnell set up scores and won every ball of him. He's lost a yard of pace and appeared afraid to shoot tonight for some reason. Against Derry Paddy Bradley did likewise and scored two from play. The only reason he only scored two was because every time be beat Mone he'd about two or three others to beat. Not Mone's play I would have said, more that he has people to cover him.
Agreed.
He's completely overrated and I love to see great players playing good football and getting on with it - but his off the ball stuff is sickening to watch.
Guys like Dermot McArdle and Darren Hughes just go out and play hard football - he goes out acting like a low life and there's no need for it - why? He'd have some chance at an All Star if he did!
Quote from: DoYerJob Linesman on July 04, 2009, 11:54:04 PM
As a complete neutral, I thought the ref gave alot of 50 50s to Monaghan.
Yes - I thought at the start of the 2nd half he favoured them completely and overall they got much more than Armagh
That said the 'free' to draw normal time was disgraceful - nothing like a free
Just home.
Disgusting is the only way to describe that.
I thought the back 6 and goalie, (bar AOR) were excellent. Donaghy was awesome, vcery commanding.
Clarke was the only man from the other 8 who was decent imo.
Mallon was shocking, unreal.
Horrible tactics from Armagh, nice of the manager to drop a forward from an already defensive lineup for another defensive player in Vernon
I thought that was absolutely shambolic today, Armagh as poor as I can ever remember but for me it can all be put down to one thing, poor management. The team that started the game was far too negative I felt and PMcD was far too slow to make the tactical changes. Midfield in the second half was killing us yet every kick went there and went there poorly, making Toner sprint a long distance before even trying to compete for the ball.
The worst thing about it all for me though is we have the making of a very good team which is 2-3 years from its peak, we now need a manager who can bring them on.
Ref was brutal today for both sides. The worst incident was when vernon went down after a fair hit but was unable to move. 3 Monaghan players immediately called for the doctor because it looked so serious, the ref on the other hand waited 5 seconds then blew him for over carry as he lay motionless on the ground. TBH the ref was lucky there Charlie wasnt more seriously hurt.
Quote from: JMohan on July 04, 2009, 11:56:27 PM
Quote from: DoYerJob Linesman on July 04, 2009, 11:54:04 PM
As a complete neutral, I thought the ref gave alot of 50 50s to Monaghan.
Yes - I thought at the start of the 2nd half he favoured them completely and overall they got much more than Armagh
That said the 'free' to draw normal time was disgraceful - nothing like a free
Clarke was pushed in the back by Corry, but the free out that led to that attack was dodgy alright.
Without dwelling on it too much ref had a huge bearing on the result. Atrocious is not the word, picky c*nt, blind, how he failed to punish Monaghan for their dirty tactics I'll never know.
Armagh looked lost at times, they did well in the first half and thought we could win it having come back from 4-1 down but the second half was disastrous.
Midfield we got cleaned out, ball going into the forwards was slow and was constantly played out to the wings, this style of football needs knocked on the head, not only sh*te to watch but its not even effective anymore. Need to be more attacking minded, simple as that.
Best for Armagh for me was either Andy Mallon or Brendy Donaghy
Quote from: Benny Barnaveld on July 04, 2009, 11:56:37 PM
Just home.
Disgusting is the only way to describe that.
I thought the back 6 and goalie, (bar AOR) were excellent. Donaghy was awesome, vcery commanding.
Clarke was the only man from the other 8 who was decent imo.
Mallon was shocking, unreal.
Horrible tactics from Armagh, nice of the manager to drop a forward from an already defensive lineup for another defensive player in Vernon
Not a bad summary at all.
Manager let Armagh down - they O'Rourkes - great servants to Armagh that they are - should never have been let near that field.
Way out of their depth.
Donaghy was outstanding. Best display I've seen this year yet.
Warm-Up of the Year Award - Enda McNulty
Quote from: DoYerJob Linesman on July 04, 2009, 11:59:11 PM
Quote from: JMohan on July 04, 2009, 11:56:27 PM
Quote from: DoYerJob Linesman on July 04, 2009, 11:54:04 PM
As a complete neutral, I thought the ref gave alot of 50 50s to Monaghan.
Yes - I thought at the start of the 2nd half he favoured them completely and overall they got much more than Armagh
That said the 'free' to draw normal time was disgraceful - nothing like a free
Clarke was pushed in the back by Corry, but the free out that led to that attack was dodgy alright.
I didn't think he was to be honest - but happy to be proven wrong
Quote from: fitzroyalty on July 05, 2009, 12:00:34 AM
Without dwelling on it too much ref had a huge bearing on the result. Atrocious is not the word, picky c*nt, blind, how he failed to punish Monaghan for their dirty tactics I'll never know.
Armagh looked lost at times, they did well in the first half and thought we could win it having come back from 4-1 down but the second half was disastrous.
Midfield we got cleaned out, ball going into the forwards was slow and was constantly played out to the wings, this style of football needs knocked on the head, not only sh*te to watch but its not even effective anymore. Need to be more attacking minded, simple as that.
Best for Armagh for me was either Andy Mallon or Brendy Donaghy
Kernan is the biggest culprit at this - the game slows down every time he touches it. Veyr one paced.
But then that's the Cross style of play.
Midfield got cleaned out - BUT only in the 2nd half - before that Armagh were on top and went in 2 up at half time.
Armagh need to take fast action to halt the decline IMO
I can't understand the AOR thing.
Everyone I have spoken too this week have said (as had I) that AOR was going to be a liability today.
To my count 5 scores came off him.
Why could the manager not forsee this?
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 04, 2009, 11:52:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 04, 2009, 11:33:04 PM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 04, 2009, 11:26:32 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on July 04, 2009, 11:24:56 PM
If their is any justice - Woods should get the same ban as Freeman. He was well caught in the act by the television cameras. Monaghan have brought football too a new low this year. This will be hopefully highlighted on the sunday game. Even a Monaghan player ( i think hughes) going down with the knees on Vernon, at the start of first half, hoping to clash the head. Dirty shower.
What did Woods do? Did Stevie deserve the red?
Couldn't get over Vinny Corey's blatant attempt to get Ronan sent off. Would have expected better.
I think Woods did the same as Steven McDonnell, strike to the face.
I'd keep an open mind on Vinny Corey, he looked to have got a whack on his collar bone.
Yeah, and he was treated for that but why did he go down clutching his face until he seen the ref wasn't buying it?
I have not seen Corey go down making a meal out of nothing before, never mind trying to get a player booked for nothing.
That's why I'd keep an open mind.
Armagh need to get the car load of delegates down to Kildare tonight ....
Quote from: Main Street on July 05, 2009, 12:07:20 AM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 04, 2009, 11:52:13 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 04, 2009, 11:33:04 PM
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 04, 2009, 11:26:32 PM
Quote from: Oakleafer1993 on July 04, 2009, 11:24:56 PM
If their is any justice - Woods should get the same ban as Freeman. He was well caught in the act by the television cameras. Monaghan have brought football too a new low this year. This will be hopefully highlighted on the sunday game. Even a Monaghan player ( i think hughes) going down with the knees on Vernon, at the start of first half, hoping to clash the head. Dirty shower.
What did Woods do? Did Stevie deserve the red?
Couldn't get over Vinny Corey's blatant attempt to get Ronan sent off. Would have expected better.
I think Woods did the same as Steven McDonnell, strike to the face.
I'd keep an open mind on Vinny Corey, he looked to have got a whack on his collar bone.
Yeah, and he was treated for that but why did he go down clutching his face until he seen the ref wasn't buying it?
I have not seen Corey go down making a meal out of nothing before, never mind trying to get a player booked for nothing.
That's why I'd keep an open mind.
It's not really his form in fairness.
Moen on the other hand ....
BTW - was JP injured? Why didn't he appear at all?
Would need to see the tv for the play-acting if any.
If Corey has tried to con (which I am not saying he has), then that is on his/Monaghan's concience.
But the referee did not pick Armagh's team or tactics, we have nobody but ourselves for that.
Quote from: David McKeown on July 04, 2009, 11:57:10 PM
I thought that was absolutely shambolic today, Armagh as poor as I can ever remember but for me it can all be put down to one thing, poor management. The team that started the game was far too negative I felt and PMcD was far too slow to make the tactical changes. Midfield in the second half was killing us yet every kick went there and went there poorly, making Toner sprint a long distance before even trying to compete for the ball.
The worst thing about it all for me though is we have the making of a very good team which is 2-3 years from its peak, we now need a manager who can bring them on.
Ref was brutal today for both sides. The worst incident was when vernon went down after a fair hit but was unable to move. 3 Monaghan players immediately called for the doctor because it looked so serious, the ref on the other hand waited 5 seconds then blew him for over carry as he lay motionless on the ground. TBH the ref was lucky there Charlie wasnt more seriously hurt.
Armagh don't have the makings of a good side in my view. Toothless up front. And none of the replacements are within an asses roar of SMCD in his pomp. No midfield either. Good defence- no argument there. But thats it for me. Tactics were poor but don't kid yourself thinking Mc Geeney could ressurrect the remants of that.
It was the worst Armagh performance I can remember for a long, long time. Is up there with the showing against Derry in the Athletic Grounds in the 90's. Being beaten is one thing, but a team not showing any hunger in championship football is a shame. Yes, Armagh were never going to win an All Ireland this year, but they could have at least looked motivated in Clones this evening.
Congrats to Monaghan, you're in the bowl tomorrow night and that's all that matters.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 05, 2009, 12:17:27 AM
Quote from: David McKeown on July 04, 2009, 11:57:10 PM
I thought that was absolutely shambolic today, Armagh as poor as I can ever remember but for me it can all be put down to one thing, poor management. The team that started the game was far too negative I felt and PMcD was far too slow to make the tactical changes. Midfield in the second half was killing us yet every kick went there and went there poorly, making Toner sprint a long distance before even trying to compete for the ball.
The worst thing about it all for me though is we have the making of a very good team which is 2-3 years from its peak, we now need a manager who can bring them on.
Ref was brutal today for both sides. The worst incident was when vernon went down after a fair hit but was unable to move. 3 Monaghan players immediately called for the doctor because it looked so serious, the ref on the other hand waited 5 seconds then blew him for over carry as he lay motionless on the ground. TBH the ref was lucky there Charlie wasnt more seriously hurt.
Armagh don't have the makings of a good side in my view. Toothless up front. And none of the replacements are within an asses roar of SMCD in his pomp. No midfield either. Good defence- no argument there. But thats it for me. Tactics were poor but don't kid yourself thinking Mc Geeney could ressurrect the remants of that.
Agree and disagree ...
Well I thought Monaghan were in big trouble in the first half at midfield - weren't they? Then they took Lavery off.
But yes - apart from Clarke they were dead - the movement was excellent though - the running was outstanding.
McGeeney would do ok .... I think there is more potential there than in Monaghan - the Armagh kick passing was superb, their strength on the ball was good. But they had no game plan and no tactics worth a damn - that's where they lost it.
I counted 4 or 5 kicked wides from play in the 2nd half of extra time ... no excuse for that.
The standard of tackling and shooting in the game was simply dreadful. And it can't be blamed on the intensity or speed of the game. Armagh were over reliant on the handpass even when it was not the best option. It was like they were playing one of those "keep possession" training games at times? And what was up with Stevie? He seemed to be uncharacteristically throwing his weight about from early on - the cameras caught him "meddling" a couple of times when he didn't need to - I expect it from the likes of Woods but not from him. Surely he has had to deal with "close attention" all of his county career? Did frustration just get the better of him? Reminded me of Zidane in the world cup... Armagh have gone backwards. :(
Monaghan were cynical (what was with all the face holding? - nothing "manly" about that Banty!) but not as physical or dirty today I thought. Just poor and and very limited without Freeman. They are like Fermanagh's older brother... slower and less skillful but if you mess with him he will drag you down and beat you with his brutal strength and street experience.
I hope they draw Derry next ;)
Quote
While Armagh fans are the bigges louts, Monaghan fans are the most ignorant bunch I have met.
I thought yiz got on pretty well. Both fine sets of supporters.
Quote from: StGallsGAA on July 05, 2009, 12:41:34 AM
Quote
While Armagh fans are the bigges louts, Monaghan fans are the most ignorant bunch I have met.
I thought yiz got on pretty well. Both fine sets of supporters.
Not round me. The most biased fans I have ever encountered.
And the ywere at the British shoit in the hill too, I'd near take our louts over them.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on July 05, 2009, 12:00:34 AM
Without dwelling on it too much ref had a huge bearing on the result. Atrocious is not the word, picky c*nt, blind, how he failed to punish Monaghan for their dirty tactics I'll never know.
Armagh looked lost at times, they did well in the first half and thought we could win it having come back from 4-1 down but the second half was disastrous.
Midfield we got cleaned out, ball going into the forwards was slow and was constantly played out to the wings, this style of football needs knocked on the head, not only sh*te to watch but its not even effective anymore. Need to be more attacking minded, simple as that.
Best for Armagh for me was either Andy Mallon or Brendy Donaghy
Funny I thought Andy Mallon had a good game myself, apart from a couple of needless frees whereas I was up at the club there tonight and the few people I was talked to rubished my suggestion that he'd had a good game. They did the same for Brian Mallon who I thought was involved in everything goood we did in the first half. Though I see someone on this thread thought he was the worst player on the pitch! Amazing how differently people can analyse the same match.
Quote from: Zulu on July 04, 2009, 10:20:10 PM
QuoteThis was a typical first round qualifier, I didn't expect anything more. There is always the remote control if the standard on offer is beneath you.
Typical head in the sand response from some Ulster posters, we all deserve better than what was served up today.
"We deserve better" :D
Monaghan and Armagh went out to win, not to entertain the neutrals.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 05, 2009, 12:47:47 AM
Quote from: fitzroyalty on July 05, 2009, 12:00:34 AM
Without dwelling on it too much ref had a huge bearing on the result. Atrocious is not the word, picky c*nt, blind, how he failed to punish Monaghan for their dirty tactics I'll never know.
Armagh looked lost at times, they did well in the first half and thought we could win it having come back from 4-1 down but the second half was disastrous.
Midfield we got cleaned out, ball going into the forwards was slow and was constantly played out to the wings, this style of football needs knocked on the head, not only sh*te to watch but its not even effective anymore. Need to be more attacking minded, simple as that.
Best for Armagh for me was either Andy Mallon or Brendy Donaghy
Funny I thought Andy Mallon had a good game myself, apart from a couple of needless frees whereas I was up at the club there tonight and the few people I was talked to rubished my suggestion that he'd had a good game. They did the same for Brian Mallon who I thought was involved in everything goood we did in the first half. Though I see someone on this thread thought he was the worst player on the pitch! Amazing how differently people can analyse the same match.
Exactly.
I thought Brian had one of his better games of recent years and Andy was second only behind that fabulosu performance from Donaghy.
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 12:48:48 AM
Quote from: Zulu on July 04, 2009, 10:20:10 PM
QuoteThis was a typical first round qualifier, I didn't expect anything more. There is always the remote control if the standard on offer is beneath you.
Typical head in the sand response from some Ulster posters, we all deserve better than what was served up today.
"We deserve better"
:D
Monaghan and Armagh went out to win, not to entertain the neutrals.
Zulu, all due respect saan but if we didn't have that
free state tube refereeing maybe the game would have flowed a bit better!! ;) Watched the first ten mins of game there, he was handing out yellow cards like sweets ffs!
Donaghy was actually outstanding today, my MOTM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 11:25:48 PM
Dessie Mone would be a half decent half back - he's poor at corner back and his behaviour is a disgrace.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 11:45:23 PM
Schitke Mone is not a great corner back.
McDonnell set up scores and won every ball of him. He's lost a yard of pace and appeared afraid to shoot tonight for some reason. Against Derry Paddy Bradley did likewise and scored two from play. The only reason he only scored two was because every time be beat Mone he'd about two or three others to beat. Not Mone's play I would have said, more that he has people to cover him.
Quote from: JMohan on July 04, 2009, 11:50:55 PM
Moen is a t***p though - you have to admit it, and when he comes out with the ball he's the least comfortable of the players on the ball. All Star my eye.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 08:28:08 PM
They're a blight. Dessie Mone goes out from start to finish of a game to get his man sent off. He never won one ball all day and got McDonnell wound up enough to get him sent off. Job done.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 04, 2009, 10:00:29 PM
Think Mc Enaeney has brought football to a new low. I know that offends Monaghan people. But the likes of dessie mone do nothing else but try to get heir man sent off. Sad way to play football.
Looks like Dick gets a week off - Dessie is this week's villain!
A different take on Dessie's game here though:
QuoteDessie Mone was awesome at the back for Monaghan, who were also well served by Paul Finlay and Conor McManus, who between them kicked the two clinching points in the second period of added time.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=114249
Quote from: ONeill on July 04, 2009, 08:34:38 PM
They should just throw both sides out. Two shocking sides.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 04, 2009, 10:09:13 PM
If only Central Council could throw both of them out of the Championship for 2 years till they cop on.
Quote from: Rossfan on July 04, 2009, 10:25:31 PM
Maybe a charge to both Counties of bringing the game into disrepute and ban them for 2010 from Senior competitions.
What a load of crap!
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 01:00:56 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 11:25:48 PM
Dessie Mone would be a half decent half back - he's poor at corner back and his behaviour is a disgrace.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 11:45:23 PM
Schitke Mone is not a great corner back.
McDonnell set up scores and won every ball of him. He's lost a yard of pace and appeared afraid to shoot tonight for some reason. Against Derry Paddy Bradley did likewise and scored two from play. The only reason he only scored two was because every time be beat Mone he'd about two or three others to beat. Not Mone's play I would have said, more that he has people to cover him.
Quote from: JMohan on July 04, 2009, 11:50:55 PM
Moen is a t***p though - you have to admit it, and when he comes out with the ball he's the least comfortable of the players on the ball. All Star my eye.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 08:28:08 PM
They're a blight. Dessie Mone goes out from start to finish of a game to get his man sent off. He never won one ball all day and got McDonnell wound up enough to get him sent off. Job done.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 04, 2009, 10:00:29 PM
Think Mc Enaeney has brought football to a new low. I know that offends Monaghan people. But the likes of dessie mone do nothing else but try to get heir man sent off. Sad way to play football.
Looks like Dick gets a week off - Dessie is this week's villain!
A different take on Dessie's game here though:
QuoteDessie Mone was awesome at the back for Monaghan, who were also well served by Paul Finlay and Conor McManus, who between them kicked the two clinching points in the second period of added time.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=114249
Hoganstand also called it a thriller.
Quote from: fitzroyalty on July 05, 2009, 12:59:12 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 12:48:48 AM
Quote from: Zulu on July 04, 2009, 10:20:10 PM
QuoteThis was a typical first round qualifier, I didn't expect anything more. There is always the remote control if the standard on offer is beneath you.
Typical head in the sand response from some Ulster posters, we all deserve better than what was served up today.
"We deserve better"
:D
Monaghan and Armagh went out to win, not to entertain the neutrals.
Zulu, all due respect saan but if we didn't have that free state tube refereeing maybe the game would have flowed a bit better!! ;) Watched the first ten mins of game there, he was handing out yellow cards like sweets ffs!
Donaghy was actually outstanding today, my MOTM
Donaghy was MOTM by quite some distance. The best player on the park by miles. An excellent player.
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 01:03:17 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 01:00:56 AM
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 11:25:48 PM
Dessie Mone would be a half decent half back - he's poor at corner back and his behaviour is a disgrace.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 11:45:23 PM
Schitke Mone is not a great corner back.
McDonnell set up scores and won every ball of him. He's lost a yard of pace and appeared afraid to shoot tonight for some reason. Against Derry Paddy Bradley did likewise and scored two from play. The only reason he only scored two was because every time be beat Mone he'd about two or three others to beat. Not Mone's play I would have said, more that he has people to cover him.
Quote from: JMohan on July 04, 2009, 11:50:55 PM
Moen is a t***p though - you have to admit it, and when he comes out with the ball he's the least comfortable of the players on the ball. All Star my eye.
Quote from: imtommygunn on July 04, 2009, 08:28:08 PM
They're a blight. Dessie Mone goes out from start to finish of a game to get his man sent off. He never won one ball all day and got McDonnell wound up enough to get him sent off. Job done.
Quote from: INDIANA on July 04, 2009, 10:00:29 PM
Think Mc Enaeney has brought football to a new low. I know that offends Monaghan people. But the likes of dessie mone do nothing else but try to get heir man sent off. Sad way to play football.
Looks like Dick gets a week off - Dessie is this week's villain!
A different take on Dessie's game here though:
QuoteDessie Mone was awesome at the back for Monaghan, who were also well served by Paul Finlay and Conor McManus, who between them kicked the two clinching points in the second period of added time.
http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=114249
Hoganstand also called it a thriller.
Some of the standard may have been poor, but it was an exciting enough game to be at, as a fan of one of the teams playing. Calling it a thriller might be pushing it a bit though.
Was there a MOTM award?
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 12:48:48 AM
Quote from: Zulu on July 04, 2009, 10:20:10 PM
QuoteThis was a typical first round qualifier, I didn't expect anything more. There is always the remote control if the standard on offer is beneath you.
Typical head in the sand response from some Ulster posters, we all deserve better than what was served up today.
"We deserve better"
:D
Monaghan and Armagh went out to win, not to entertain the neutrals.
Quote
Horseshit, this excuse that we are there to win, not to enterrtain is nonsense. Yes you want to win but you should want to win playing football not anti-football as well. I'm sick of hearing people defend shit football by saying 'we aren't here to entertain', we don't want you to entertain but we don't expect you to take all the joy out of football either.
QuoteZulu, all due respect saan but if we didn't have that free state tube refereeing maybe the game would have flowed a bit better!!
Agree 100% but he can't be blamed for everything, there was some shocking football played today.
Maguire, Damien was MOTM!
Quote from: Zulu on July 05, 2009, 01:07:58 AM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 12:48:48 AM
Quote from: Zulu on July 04, 2009, 10:20:10 PM
QuoteThis was a typical first round qualifier, I didn't expect anything more. There is always the remote control if the standard on offer is beneath you.
Typical head in the sand response from some Ulster posters, we all deserve better than what was served up today.
"We deserve better"
:D
Monaghan and Armagh went out to win, not to entertain the neutrals.
Horseshit, this excuse that we are there to win, not to enterrtain is nonsense. Yes you want to win but you should want to win playing football not anti-football as well. I'm sick of hearing people defend shit football by saying 'we aren't here to entertain', we don't want you to entertain but we don't expect you to take all the joy out of football either.
If you win a game playing pretty football, then that's great. But i'd rather win playing poor football that play a great game and lose.
And it's not an excuse that the teams are "there to win" - that's the purpose of the game!
Quote from: Schkite on July 05, 2009, 01:12:17 AM
Maguire, Damien was MOTM!
Cheers. Would have been difficult enough to pick a stand out player.
Lads tonight was a complete shambles. I am well aware that Monaghan went into the game to stop Armagh from playing football but the tactics employed were totally disgraceful. As well as this we have a referee that was willing to turn a blind eye to the antics. Mc Donell and clarke got absolutely no protection at all from the officials and this is a complete disgrace. These lad shouldn't be going onto a pitch to be booted all over it sure there isn't a player in Ireland that would be able to play football if subject to the abuse they were getting. If the ref would have given Clarke half the frees he should have got Armagh would have won the match by 4 or 5 points (even though they were shite)
on the subject of Armagh, I said it at the start of the year AOR is done and it was proved tonight when a player who is at least 3 stone over weight turned him inside out. AOR is too slow and i know i will get lads coming on here saying he can pass and the rest of the blah blah blah blah talk. Fact is that AOR should have hung the county boots up long ago. He has been a fine servant but the time has come to hang the nail in the garage in terms of county football. Watching the game and seeing Enda Mc Nulty warm up was a complete farce, Enda is another lad that should have hung them up at least a year ago. Whilst i am not the greatest fan of young morriarty i would say tha lad is completely devastated at what has went on tonight. What went on tonight is a complete insult to every club player in Armagh with county aspirations. Having played club football over the years i know for a fact that there are better, younger, hungrier and fitter players within the county than that on display tonight. How are these players meant to grow if the management and the old guard won't make way for them. The time has come in Armagh football for the management team to select players on performance and not on name or past glories. To be successful a team must be kept on it's toes and the only way to do this is by healthy competition for places. Tyrone are the masters at it, i guarantee if a player has 3 or 4 consecutive bad games for Tyrone Harte wouldn't be long wielding the axe.
On the subject of the management, i thought tonight that Armagh were just throwing sub on in a panic, something that they have never done(but also got criticised for) There didn't seem to be a pattern to the play and the idea of a team unit was replaced by 12 or 13 individuals and 2 or 3 team players. The most frustrating thing is that the players are there in Armagh but the system for selection is totally based on name or past glories. Mc Donnell has the had the opportunity this year to provide Armagh with a new beginning. The supporters were willing to give him a year or two to build a squad but i have to say he has got off on the wrong foot in his first year. If i have came across as slating Mc Nulty and O'Rourke this was not my intention i was merely using them as an example based on age (there was worse on the pitch tonight)
QuoteIf you win a game playing pretty football, then that's great. But I'd rather win playing poor football that play a great game and lose.
And it's not an excuse that the teams are "there to win" - that's the purpose of the game!
Yes, but there are ways to win, and Monaghan are using the lowest common denominator to do so. If Monaghan were a bunch of shit kickers I'd understand but ye have outstanding footballers but ye are sending them out to play anti-football as are Armagh and so too are most other Ulster football teams. The problem with Ulster football is ye are worshipping at the alter of the defensive coach, if he knows how to set up a team he is a genius and if he doesn't he hasn't a clue.
I would have given MOTM to Darren Hughes
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 01:16:50 AM
Quote from: Schkite on July 05, 2009, 01:12:17 AM
Maguire, Damien was MOTM!
Cheers. Would have been difficult enough to pick a stand out player.
Aye - but you couldn't say he was near it in fairness ... I thought even Donaghy would have been up there as a canditate
Quote from: winsamsoon on July 05, 2009, 01:44:00 AM
Lads tonight was a complete shambles. I am well aware that Monaghan went into the game to stop Armagh from playing football but the tactics employed were totally disgraceful. As well as this we have a referee that was willing to turn a blind eye to the antics. Mc Donell and clarke got absolutely no protection at all from the officials and this is a complete disgrace. These lad shouldn't be going onto a pitch to be booted all over it sure there isn't a player in Ireland that would be able to play football if subject to the abuse they were getting. If the ref would have given Clarke half the frees he should have got Armagh would have won the match by 4 or 5 points (even though they were shite)
on the subject of Armagh, I said it at the start of the year AOR is done and it was proved tonight when a player who is at least 3 stone over weight turned him inside out. AOR is too slow and i know i will get lads coming on here saying he can pass and the rest of the blah blah blah blah talk. Fact is that AOR should have hung the county boots up long ago. He has been a fine servant but the time has come to hang the nail in the garage in terms of county football. Watching the game and seeing Enda Mc Nulty warm up was a complete farce, Enda is another lad that should have hung them up at least a year ago. Whilst i am not the greatest fan of young morriarty i would say tha lad is completely devastated at what has went on tonight. What went on tonight is a complete insult to every club player in Armagh with county aspirations. Having played club football over the years i know for a fact that there are better, younger, hungrier and fitter players within the county than that on display tonight. How are these players meant to grow if the management and the old guard won't make way for them. The time has come in Armagh football for the management team to select players on performance and not on name or past glories. To be successful a team must be kept on it's toes and the only way to do this is by healthy competition for places. Tyrone are the masters at it, i guarantee if a player has 3 or 4 consecutive bad games for Tyrone Harte wouldn't be long wielding the axe.
On the subject of the management, i thought tonight that Armagh were just throwing sub on in a panic, something that they have never done(but also got criticised for) There didn't seem to be a pattern to the play and the idea of a team unit was replaced by 12 or 13 individuals and 2 or 3 team players. The most frustrating thing is that the players are there in Armagh but the system for selection is totally based on name or past glories. Mc Donnell has the had the opportunity this year to provide Armagh with a new beginning. The supporters were willing to give him a year or two to build a squad but i have to say he has got off on the wrong foot in his first year. If i have came across as slating Mc Nulty and O'Rourke this was not my intention i was merely using them as an example based on age (there was worse on the pitch tonight)
He covered a fair amount of ground too tonight along the line
Quote from: winsamsoon on July 05, 2009, 01:44:00 AM
on the subject of Armagh, I said it at the start of the year AOR is done and it was proved tonight when a player who is at least 3 stone over weight turned him inside out. AOR is too slow and i know i will get lads coming on here saying he can pass and the rest of the blah blah blah blah talk. Fact is that AOR should have hung the county boots up long ago. He has been a fine servant but the time has come to hang the nail in the garage in terms of county football. Watching the game and seeing Enda Mc Nulty warm up was a complete farce, Enda is another lad that should have hung them up at least a year ago. Whilst i am not the greatest fan of young morriarty i would say tha lad is completely devastated at what has went on tonight. What went on tonight is a complete insult to every club player in Armagh with county aspirations. Having played club football over the years i know for a fact that there are better, younger, hungrier and fitter players within the county than that on display tonight. How are these players meant to grow if the management and the old guard won't make way for them. The time has come in Armagh football for the management team to select players on performance and not on name or past glories. To be successful a team must be kept on it's toes and the only way to do this is by healthy competition for places. Tyrone are the masters at it, i guarantee if a player has 3 or 4 consecutive bad games for Tyrone Harte wouldn't be long wielding the axe.
On the subject of the management, i thought tonight that Armagh were just throwing sub on in a panic, something that they have never done(but also got criticised for) There didn't seem to be a pattern to the play and the idea of a team unit was replaced by 12 or 13 individuals and 2 or 3 team players. The most frustrating thing is that the players are there in Armagh but the system for selection is totally based on name or past glories. Mc Donnell has the had the opportunity this year to provide Armagh with a new beginning. The supporters were willing to give him a year or two to build a squad but i have to say he has got off on the wrong foot in his first year. If i have came across as slating Mc Nulty and O'Rourke this was not my intention i was merely using them as an example based on age (there was worse on the pitch tonight)
Isn't this McDonnell's second year?
Anyway, he's in the process of building a new team, but it's not necessarily the best option to clear out all of the old brigade - a team needs some experience as well as youth, to help the young players settle in. It's hard to see Armagh reaching the heights of recent years in the near future, and due to this recent success, some people might have unrealistic expectations.
So many things yesterday that I would have changed and that should have been changed. Seeing the lineup before the match I was apprehensive and thought we'd be well beat, half time I changed my opinion and actually thought we'd be in with a shout of putting Monaghan away. After Wexford last year there was all this talk of attacking football and how things would be changing. Yesterday we were treated to the same old defensive crap. Is it really hard to play defenders in defence and attackers in attack? Our half forward line is piss poor, what is the point in playing a defender like Duffy in the half forwards? Is it so hard to find actual natural forwards who can win break ball? Who are able to run at teams? As well as taking a score? At times our forwards were running round in circles, afraid to shoot from the edge of the D ??? If you can't score from 30 yards you should be on the pitch, simple as. If we get this problem sorted we should be serious contenders, but aslong it is left untouched we will continue to be an average team.
bredan donaghy was superb. great player.
a o'rourke cleaned out in the full back line.
armagh half back line contributed nothing going forward.
monaghan definitely try to get players lined as a tactic.
tony kernan is way way off the pace of county football.
supply into clarke and mcdonnell woeful as usual.
Baffling management decisions that cost armagh -
Dropping McKeever off finlay to sweep in the second half - turned the game in monaghan's favour and finlay set everything up.
playing aidan o'rourke as a corner back for 45 minutes. wtf? whatever he can bring to the team it ain't there.
nothing done to break monaghan's complete domination of the midfield sector in the second half of normal time.
Quote from: The GAA on July 05, 2009, 08:32:54 AM
bredan donaghy was superb. great player.
a o'rourke cleaned out in the full back line.
armagh half back line contributed nothing going forward.
monaghan definitely try to get players lined as a tactic.
tony kernan is way way off the pace of county football.
supply into clarke and mcdonnell woeful as usual.
Baffling management decisions that cost armagh -
Dropping McKeever off finlay to sweep in the second half - turned the game in monaghan's favour and finlay set everything up.
playing aidan o'rourke as a corner back for 45 minutes. wtf? whatever he can bring to the team it ain't there.
nothing done to break monaghan's complete domination of the midfield sector in the second half of normal time.
Totally Agree.
Again we had some many men back crowding the half back line and into midfield that the players were in eachothers way, a short obvious handpass was always on and usually taken.
I think I remember MOR gettting a ball in midfield, and turning round and hand passing it back 30 yards towards his own goal!
A mate watching on TV sent me a text saying - both those teams should be fucked out of the championship (because they were shite, not dirt related), and that about sums up the night for me. Brutal.
There isn't a mission of McGeeney coming in the next year or two and I cannot see any other suitable candidates so I would give Mcdonnell another year on the proviso that he completely roots the f**k out of the squad. AOR, MCNulty, MCDonnell and possibly MOR should save him the bother and retire, more worringly I reckon Clarke will probably give serious consideration to his future after that. I thought the amount of times he was fouled and got nothing was a joke, why should he put up with that shite continually?
Was in for the whole of the minor game and we look like we have a serious team there. Could be in Croker in September yet.
I'm surprised that there hasn't been more made of the Lavery substitution. Given the lad's face when he was running from the field I think it is fair to say that he wasn't injured.
We were doing OK at midfield for the first hallf, but we were totally destroyed second half - a coincidence or not?
Also why is Paul Duffy always the first forward to be substituted? MOR had an absolute stinker of a game yet he would probably have played the entire 90 minutes only for cramp near the end of the match.
Peter McDonnell has to go, based on his calls yesterday (AOR) but just as much for the real negative football we are playing. 10 points will never win a championship game.
Stevie is a former shadow of his self, and was probably only starting on reputation - he no longer tries to take the defender on and looks devoid of confidence when shooting.
When we are light in the attacking stakes then surely there is an onus on the brains trust on the line to ensure that we have other forward options during a game.
It was telling that right at the very end of the match when we were 2 points down we still had 7 or 8 defenders ::)
And on a positive note, Brendy Donaghy had probably the best performance that we will see all year from a number 3. He is continually putting in tremedous performances.
Finally a word of congratulations on the minor team. I haven't seen such an exhibition of fielding for a long time and Robbie Tasker looks a real handy footballer as well.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 05, 2009, 10:29:54 AM
I'm surprised that there hasn't been more made of the Lavery substitution. Given the lad's face when he was running from the field I think it is fair to say that he wasn't injured.
We were doing OK at midfield for the first hallf, but we were totally destroyed second half - a coincidence or not?
Also why is Paul Duffy always the first forward to be substituted? MOR had an absolute stinker of a game yet he would probably have played the entire 90 minutes only for cramp near the end of the match.
Peter McDonnell has to go, based on his calls yesterday (AOR) but just as much for the real negative football we are playing. 10 points will never win a championship game.
Stevie is a former shadow of his self, and was probably only starting on reputation - he no longer tries to take the defender on and looks devoid of confidence when shooting.
When we are light in the attacking stakes then surely there is an onus on the brains trust on the line to ensure that we have other forward options during a game.
It was telling that right at the very end of the match when we were 2 points down we still had 7 or 8 defenders ::)
And on a positive note, Brendy Donaghy had probably the best performance that we will see all year from a number 3. He is continually putting in tremedous performances.
Finally a word of congratulations on the minor team. I haven't seen such an exhibition of fielding for a long time and Robbie Tasker looks a real handy footballer as well.
Regardless of how babd people thought Marty was yesterday, he was significantly better than Duffy who, in my opinion, gave a horrible performance. Summed up by his unwillingness to take short kick outs which killed us.
I think starting Vernon was a massive mistake. Midfield too conjested and too light upfront. Like him as player but the balance was wrong
The manager realised this and took off Lavery to save face, bringing Kernan on. Despite Lavery doing well.
Before kickoff he brought in a midfielder for a forward, then 20 mins in brought in a forward for a midfielder!
Quote from: Benny Barnaveld on July 05, 2009, 10:49:29 AM
I think starting Vernon was a massive mistake. Midfield too conjested and too light upfront. Like him as player but the balance was wrong
The manager realised this and took off Lavery to save face, bringing Kernan on. Despite Lavery doing well.
Before kickoff he brought in a midfielder for a forward, then 20 mins in brought in a forward for a midfielder!
But Vernon ran the show against Meath apparently, I can see why he started him. So Lavery wasn;t injured, can;t believe that, I thought he was doing well.
I dont doubt that he did. I like Vernon as I said.
But either he should in midfield or not at all. We needed another scoring threat
I have been watching Armagh for over 30 years and yesterday for the first time I wanted to leave before the match was over. In fact after about ten minutes of the 2nd half I said to my brother I wanted to leave as I could not watch this crap any more. Some posters won't remember the bad old days when Armagh did not have a great team but yesterday was worse than any of that. We have good players but no system and to see so many players cramping up while Monaghan were still going strong was very worrying. Last night I said I was not going to another Armagh senior match as long as the current set up was in place and I have not changed my mind (yet). We will have posters from other counties coming on and saying that we just do not have the players anymore. To me that is total crap. The team that won the All Ireland did not contain 1 player who had won an underage All Ireland. Last night we had players who won an under 21 All Ireland. Prior to 1998 we had not won an Ulster U21 we have now won three and were unlucky to not win another this year. We have also an Ulster minor title not too long ago and are in the final this year. The players are there. Maybe not to win an All Ireland in the short term but definitely to at least reach quarter finals.
Many people would have been happy if we had have shown progression this year but all we did was show what is bad with football. We have footballers why play the crap we did yesterday. We need to play to win not play because we do not want to lose.
As for the team I was cursing McAvoy in the second half. If Hearty had have been in goals Monaghan would have got a goal and we would not have had to suffer extra time! He played quite well. Mallon and Donaghy were the pick of the defenders. I thought Toner played quite well and up front Mallon was the pick. As for the substitutes I could not understand why Lavery was taken off. To me, and I am a great fan of his, I thought Vernon lacked match sharpness and should have been taken off much sooner.
I could go on about Monaghan tactics and the ref etc. but much has already been said. Suffice to say that before the match I thought that if the match was played as a football match I thought Armagh would win but if it became niggly then Armagh had no chance. Sadly I was right.
Finally I share other peoples fear that Clarke may quit. The abuse he gets in matches is unreal and some of the decisions given against him today were shocking. The new rules were forwarded to help the skilful player yet refs let Clarke take so much abuse and Tommy Freeman gets banned for eight weeks. Something is wrong!
I thought both teams were equally negative/defensive/cynical. Unfair for anyone to single out Monaghan IMO.
Having an incompetent petty ref made it worse. Though I don't think he favoured one team over the other. Still I enjoyed it more than I would Wigan v Everton or similar.
With Monaghan being so dominant in midfield in the 2nd half they should really have wrapped it up comfortably. Their half backs made some great runs forward, which Armagh struggled to deal with. To me, Monaghan seemed to have the better footballers and the more room for improvement. But the amount of times a Monaghan man with the ball in the Armagh half took the wrong option was incredible. Really stupid braindead stuff, which nearly cost them. But at the end of the day the best team won IMO.
I think big Joe took those kinda tactics/players as far as he could.
McGrane, Bellew, McKeever, McConville are to be credited for knowing when to call it a day.
We now have players with different talents to what we had years ago, so it is time for the tactics, management and team selection to reflect that.
Quote from: Benny Barnaveld on July 05, 2009, 10:49:29 AM
I think starting Vernon was a massive mistake. Midfield too conjested and too light upfront. Like him as player but the balance was wrong
The manager realised this and took off Lavery to save face, bringing Kernan on. Despite Lavery doing well.
Before kickoff he brought in a midfielder for a forward, then 20 mins in brought in a forward for a midfielder!
Was Vernon not injured? Remember he was down for a bit injured before that?
If Lavery wasn't injured then it's time for a management change
The difference were the two half back lines -
Monaghan attacked at pace
Armagh slowed up the ball and went side ways - AK was the worst culprit
Quote from: JMohan on July 05, 2009, 12:03:00 PM
Quote from: Benny Barnaveld on July 05, 2009, 10:49:29 AM
I think starting Vernon was a massive mistake. Midfield too conjested and too light upfront. Like him as player but the balance was wrong
The manager realised this and took off Lavery to save face, bringing Kernan on. Despite Lavery doing well.
Before kickoff he brought in a midfielder for a forward, then 20 mins in brought in a forward for a midfielder!
Was Vernon not injured? Remember he was down for a bit injured before that?
Do you mean Lavery?
I cant be 100% certain, but I did not see a problem nor see him signalling or any medical staff. Plus he looked disappointed to be coming off.
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 01:03:17 AM
[
Hoganstand also called it a thriller.
Where did you read that?
Hoganstand´s very good report did not call it a thriller.
"Though closely-contested throughout, the match was generally of a poor quality but this one was always going to be a dogfight" RTE.ie report
Monaghan edged out Armagh in an extra-time thriller at Clones to advance to the second round of the qualifiers".The extra time was a "thriller" of sorts, had my heart thumping :) with 2 superb knock out scores from play, first from McManus and then Finlay with one of the best strikes this year.
Extremely disillusioned by the whole thing yesterday...... First of all Monaghan were the better team on the day. we lacked direction and penetration, our forward unit as a whole were extremely poor on the day and midfield could be described as nothin else but brutal..., Monaghhan are an extremely negative team both tactical and cynically.....
From watchin yesterdays game i feel than there has to be some type of rules brought in to clean up our game, its turnin in2 a poor spectacle ......hav 2 agree wit a previous poster than some rules have to be brought in 2 limit the number of consecutive hand passes, to define the tackle and also the introduction of the mark
Thought Donaghy was excellent, two mallons, AK and Clarke tried hard...From watchin both our under 21 team, minor team (Who were excellent today, McVerry and Tasker are exciting prospects) this year i am confident that we have the talent in the county, although its time to say thanks and goodbye to the remaining of our old guard i feel..
I know there is an element of every counties support that go to far on oocasions, my own county included but i feel that i have to comment on a minority of Monaghans supporters yesterday who were nothing short of biggots......I certainly did not pay into yesterdays game to be abused and told to shove my British passport of my ass, or be called a British ****...I know a number of elderly supporters around me from both teams felt extremely uncomfortable with this sort of abuse and i congratulate the guards who acted and removed these thugs from the ground....There was also alot of abuse thrown from low lifes hanging out of the pubs towards the armagh supporters after the game on the main st....I bet some of these BIG MEN / COWARDS wouldn come down to Crossmaglen or Lurgan and say some of the things they were saying.....
Due to having to wait on a mate coming from airport missed the minor match yesterday. Who played well and did the scoring? Someone sent off? what for?
The FB, Finnegan from Cross was sent off for a second yellow. He was acting the maggot a bit throughout the game to be fair. Hard to pick out a weaklink yesterday, when they lost a man they looked equally as good. Big Silverbridge lad in MF caught a serious amount of ball, and Deccie McKenna at CHB (moved to FB when man sent off) was a rock. Really strong all over.
Quote from: Hound on July 05, 2009, 11:16:34 AM
I thought both teams were equally negative/defensive/cynical. Unfair for anyone to single out Monaghan IMO.
Having an incompetent petty ref made it worse. Though I don't think he favoured one team over the other. Still I enjoyed it more than I would Wigan v Everton or similar.
With Monaghan being so dominant in midfield in the 2nd half they should really have wrapped it up comfortably. Their half backs made some great runs forward, which Armagh struggled to deal with. To me, Monaghan seemed to have the better footballers and the more room for improvement. But the amount of times a Monaghan man with the ball in the Armagh half took the wrong option was incredible. Really stupid braindead stuff, which nearly cost them. But at the end of the day the best team won IMO.
Pretty fair report.
Regards the ref, a few of the yellows looked soft for the Armagh players but I thought that was the ref trying to keep the lid on possible rougher stuff.
In that I'd say the ref succeeded, the physicals did not descend into a spectacle.
On the amount of frees, I don´t know what the ref can do when players from both side were going down winning a free as soon as a hand touched their back.
Players were looking to win free kicks.
On the braindead stuff, it is frustrating when quite capable experienced players like Woods, Finlay and Lennon were culpable. In a dogged game like that, you'd want to be seeing the better players do the basics right, in front of goal.
Thanks Benny
I know the two teams didn't help but I thought the ref was poor - at one stage the commentator said he'll need a new whistle for the next match. Brolly described him as a nervous ref - probably fair enough.
Jimmy White would have done a good enough job there yesterday IMO.
Quote from: orangeman on July 05, 2009, 01:10:26 PM
Jimmy White would have done a good enough job there yesterday IMO.
Are you having a laugh? Wasn't Jimmy White the ref for the Monaghan/Derry game?!
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 01:19:16 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 05, 2009, 01:10:26 PM
Jimmy White would have done a good enough job there yesterday IMO.
Are you having a laugh? Wasn't Jimmy White the ref for the Monaghan/Derry game?!
True - but the feee count was mad yesterday - Jimmy is normally a good ref. But again the two teams that day decided to go to war and Jimmy was caught in the middle.
I thought the ref was ok given the poor standard of the game. Most of the decisions he got right, apart from booking Ronan Clarke which I don't know what it is for. It wasn't his fault that the players didn't play to the rules. I lost count of how many fouls were a result of over carrying, pickup of the ground, throw ball etc, all the basic skills of the game which you would think an inter county team should be capable of doing right.
I thought Monaghan were the better team on the day and deserved to win, should have won by more but they wern't helped by the Armagh defense giving away stupid frees which were converted.
Quote from: orangeman on July 05, 2009, 01:24:40 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 01:19:16 PM
Quote from: orangeman on July 05, 2009, 01:10:26 PM
Jimmy White would have done a good enough job there yesterday IMO.
Are you having a laugh? Wasn't Jimmy White the ref for the Monaghan/Derry game?!
True - but the feee count was mad yesterday - Jimmy is normally a good ref. But again the two teams that day decided to go to war and Jimmy was caught in the middle.
Yes, but the best refs maintain at least some control on the game. Jimmy White didn't have a clue what he was doing in Derry. He should have laid down a marker early on.
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on July 05, 2009, 01:28:36 PM
I thought the ref was ok given the poor standard of the game. Most of the decisions he got right, apart from booking Ronan Clarke which I don't know what it is for. It wasn't his fault that the players didn't play to the rules. I lost count of how many fouls were a result of over carrying, pickup of the ground, throw ball etc, all the basic skills of the game which you would think an inter county team should be capable of doing right.
Yes, i've seen much worse refereeing performances. And yes, it's a fair point that whilst the free count was high, there were a lot of frees given away for fouling the ball rather than another player - a lot of basic mistakes that you can't blame the ref for blowing up. (Personally I think too many refs allow players to over-carry the ball - i'm generally happy to see that blown up.)
It wasn't the best refereeing performance, but it wasn't the worst either, and whilst he was 'whistle-happy' and had some influence on the flow of the game, I don't think he influenced the result.
Quote from: longball on July 04, 2009, 09:01:47 PM
Quote from: DUBSFORSAM1 on July 04, 2009, 09:00:05 PM
Quote from: longball on July 04, 2009, 08:56:08 PM
Neither team wants to win this both seem like there afraid of losing. Both teams have a ball of players back. Dire stuff. Stevy McDonald finished as a corner forward IMO. May give u something at CHF but hasnt the pace for the corner anymore. In fairness you couldnt get much worse of a CHF than the one thats on at the min.
Do you not think if you actually kicked the ball into him and Clarke quickly you might get success - just like you did against Tyrone for a period of time...
I am from Tyrone. Naw think McDonald is finished as a CF any decent corner back will be too sharp for him
Looks like its Monaghans now.
Wanta be the first to say ONL dry the eyes.
This for me?? Whats that about
Quote from: Archie Mitchell on July 05, 2009, 01:28:36 PM
I thought the ref was ok given the poor standard of the game. Most of the decisions he got right, apart from booking Ronan Clarke which I don't know what it is for. It wasn't his fault that the players didn't play to the rules. I lost count of how many fouls were a result of over carrying, pickup of the ground, throw ball etc, all the basic skills of the game which you would think an inter county team should be capable of doing right.
I thought Monaghan were the better team on the day and deserved to win, should have won by more but they wern't helped by the Armagh defense giving away stupid frees which were converted.
Aye - then look at all the wides Armagh missed at the end
I think we can safely say neither team set the world on light
You don't set the world "on light" - you set it "on fire" or "alight". :P
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 03:02:07 PM
You don't set the world "on light" - you set it "on fire" or "alight". :P
You're right ... didn't any of them either ....
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 05, 2009, 10:29:54 AM
I'm surprised that there hasn't been more made of the Lavery substitution. Given the lad's face when he was running from the field I think it is fair to say that he wasn't injured.
We were doing OK at midfield for the first hallf, but we were totally destroyed second half - a coincidence or not?
Also why is Paul Duffy always the first forward to be substituted? MOR had an absolute stinker of a game yet he would probably have played the entire 90 minutes only for cramp near the end of the match.
Peter McDonnell has to go, based on his calls yesterday (AOR) but just as much for the real negative football we are playing. 10 points will never win a championship game.
Stevie is a former shadow of his self, and was probably only starting on reputation - he no longer tries to take the defender on and looks devoid of confidence when shooting.
When we are light in the attacking stakes then surely there is an onus on the brains trust on the line to ensure that we have other forward options during a game.
It was telling that right at the very end of the match when we were 2 points down we still had 7 or 8 defenders ::)
And on a positive note, Brendy Donaghy had probably the best performance that we will see all year from a number 3. He is continually putting in tremedous performances.
Finally a word of congratulations on the minor team. I haven't seen such an exhibition of fielding for a long time and Robbie Tasker looks a real handy footballer as well.
Regardless of how babd people thought Marty was yesterday, he was significantly better than Duffy who, in my opinion, gave a horrible performance. Summed up by his unwillingness to take short kick outs which killed us.
Corn or you still wearing your dromintee rosed tinted glasses
Quote from: umgolaarmagh on July 05, 2009, 05:19:46 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 10:35:38 AM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on July 05, 2009, 10:29:54 AM
I'm surprised that there hasn't been more made of the Lavery substitution. Given the lad's face when he was running from the field I think it is fair to say that he wasn't injured.
We were doing OK at midfield for the first hallf, but we were totally destroyed second half - a coincidence or not?
Also why is Paul Duffy always the first forward to be substituted? MOR had an absolute stinker of a game yet he would probably have played the entire 90 minutes only for cramp near the end of the match.
Peter McDonnell has to go, based on his calls yesterday (AOR) but just as much for the real negative football we are playing. 10 points will never win a championship game.
Stevie is a former shadow of his self, and was probably only starting on reputation - he no longer tries to take the defender on and looks devoid of confidence when shooting.
When we are light in the attacking stakes then surely there is an onus on the brains trust on the line to ensure that we have other forward options during a game.
It was telling that right at the very end of the match when we were 2 points down we still had 7 or 8 defenders ::)
And on a positive note, Brendy Donaghy had probably the best performance that we will see all year from a number 3. He is continually putting in tremedous performances.
Finally a word of congratulations on the minor team. I haven't seen such an exhibition of fielding for a long time and Robbie Tasker looks a real handy footballer as well.
Regardless of how babd people thought Marty was yesterday, he was significantly better than Duffy who, in my opinion, gave a horrible performance. Summed up by his unwillingness to take short kick outs which killed us.
Corn or you still wearing your dromintee rosed tinted glasses
Not really, no. I said that I thought Marty was ok but was open to correction.
Duffy was horrendous though. Didn't want the ball.
Pathetic, Disgusting, Woeful, Worst 35 minutes of football ever seen, This is what I was hearing leaving Clones last night and I have to say it all pretty much sums it up.
McDonnells tactics, or lack of tactics stink!
Couldnt wait to either get Lavery off or get Tony Kernan on (You choose) and it was horrible.. They were pure clueless on the line, Was horrible to look down and look at them standing there looking at each other.
Anyone who thinks McGeeney will be there next year is in Cuckoo land. why would he leave Kildare.
Hindsight could show for a number of reasons this could be the best thing to happen to Armagh
Quote from: Joxer on July 05, 2009, 05:53:25 PM
Pathetic, Disgusting, Woeful, Worst 35 minutes of football ever seen, This is what I was hearing leaving Clones last night and I have to say it all pretty much sums it up.
McDonnells tactics, or lack of tactics stink!
Couldnt wait to either get Lavery off or get Tony Kernan on (You choose) and it was horrible.. They were pure clueless on the line, Was horrible to look down and look at them standing there looking at each other.
Anyone who thinks McGeeney will be there next year is in Cuckoo land. why would he leave Kildare.
Hindsight could show for a number of reasons this could be the best thing to happen to Armagh
Exactly.
Had to take time out after that brutal spectacle of nonsense from Armagh yesterday evening.
Personally speaking, it's time for AOR and Enda to retire. They are both way past their peak and have nothing to offer the squad as players. Certainly I would see a role for Enda in the backroom staff but not for being in the championship squad.
Some of the decisions made on the line were too late or just utterly baffling, like taking Lavery off - what the hell was that about? AOR was taken off but too late. Henderson had one pop and missed in extra time, had he scored we would have drawn.
Some of that Monaghan team ought to be in a boxing ring and not a football field. I hope the CCCC take action accordingly and give Woods a lengthy ban
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 05, 2009, 06:36:42 PM
Had to take time out after that brutal spectacle of nonsense from Armagh yesterday evening.
Personally speaking, it's time for AOR and Enda to retire. They are both way past their peak and have nothing to offer the squad as players. Certainly I would see a role for Enda in the backroom staff but not for being in the championship squad.
Some of the decisions made on the line were too late or just utterly baffling, like taking Lavery off - what the hell was that about? AOR was taken off but too late. Henderson had one pop and missed in extra time, had he scored we would have drawn.
Some of that Monaghan team ought to be in a boxing ring and not a football field. I hope the CCCC take action accordingly and give Woods a lengthy ban
If my memory serves me correctly, Armagh have dished out there fair share of physical stuff over the years, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Maybe it's a wee touch of sour grapes on your part & I think it's fair to say that that's the end of Armagh for the forseeable future.
Quote from: mournerambler on July 05, 2009, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 05, 2009, 06:36:42 PM
Had to take time out after that brutal spectacle of nonsense from Armagh yesterday evening.
Personally speaking, it's time for AOR and Enda to retire. They are both way past their peak and have nothing to offer the squad as players. Certainly I would see a role for Enda in the backroom staff but not for being in the championship squad.
Some of the decisions made on the line were too late or just utterly baffling, like taking Lavery off - what the hell was that about? AOR was taken off but too late. Henderson had one pop and missed in extra time, had he scored we would have drawn.
Some of that Monaghan team ought to be in a boxing ring and not a football field. I hope the CCCC take action accordingly and give Woods a lengthy ban
If my memory serves me correctly, Armagh have dished out there fair share of physical stuff over the years, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Maybe it's a wee touch of sour grapes on your part & I think it's fair to say that that's the end of Armagh for the forseeable future.
That has been bantered about for years especially after 2007 - take it you didnt see the minors!!!!
Quote from: SouthDerryGael on July 05, 2009, 06:38:09 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 05, 2009, 06:36:42 PM
Some of that Monaghan team ought to be in a boxing ring and not a football field. I hope the CCCC take action accordingly and give Woods a lengthy ban
Woods is a nasty piece of work, he is involved in every thing that has nothing to do with him. Hopefully he gets a ban for striking in the face as he has it coming to him.
That's being nice to the man in fairness
mournerambler, I am talking about yesterdays game, nothing else. When will Down folk ever get over Mickey Linden losing his teeth? All due respect to the man himself, he has said that it was a hospital pass and that it was a fair challenge from Francie so will the rest of youse just get over it?
Quote from: jimbo on July 05, 2009, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: mournerambler on July 05, 2009, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 05, 2009, 06:36:42 PM
Had to take time out after that brutal spectacle of nonsense from Armagh yesterday evening.
Personally speaking, it's time for AOR and Enda to retire. They are both way past their peak and have nothing to offer the squad as players. Certainly I would see a role for Enda in the backroom staff but not for being in the championship squad.
Some of the decisions made on the line were too late or just utterly baffling, like taking Lavery off - what the hell was that about? AOR was taken off but too late. Henderson had one pop and missed in extra time, had he scored we would have drawn.
Some of that Monaghan team ought to be in a boxing ring and not a football field. I hope the CCCC take action accordingly and give Woods a lengthy ban
If my memory serves me correctly, Armagh have dished out there fair share of physical stuff over the years, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Maybe it's a wee touch of sour grapes on your part & I think it's fair to say that that's the end of Armagh for the forseeable future.
That has been bantered about for years especially after 2007 - take it you didnt see the minors!!!!
Armagh's minors are impressive, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Armagh seniors are sorted in a few years.
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 07:11:44 PM
Quote from: jimbo on July 05, 2009, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: mournerambler on July 05, 2009, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 05, 2009, 06:36:42 PM
Had to take time out after that brutal spectacle of nonsense from Armagh yesterday evening.
Personally speaking, it's time for AOR and Enda to retire. They are both way past their peak and have nothing to offer the squad as players. Certainly I would see a role for Enda in the backroom staff but not for being in the championship squad.
Some of the decisions made on the line were too late or just utterly baffling, like taking Lavery off - what the hell was that about? AOR was taken off but too late. Henderson had one pop and missed in extra time, had he scored we would have drawn.
Some of that Monaghan team ought to be in a boxing ring and not a football field. I hope the CCCC take action accordingly and give Woods a lengthy ban
If my memory serves me correctly, Armagh have dished out there fair share of physical stuff over the years, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Maybe it's a wee touch of sour grapes on your part & I think it's fair to say that that's the end of Armagh for the forseeable future.
That has been bantered about for years especially after 2007 - take it you didnt see the minors!!!!
Armagh's minors are impressive, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Armagh seniors are sorted in a few years.
Exactly, as Down have proven.
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 07:11:44 PM
Quote from: jimbo on July 05, 2009, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: mournerambler on July 05, 2009, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 05, 2009, 06:36:42 PM
Had to take time out after that brutal spectacle of nonsense from Armagh yesterday evening.
Personally speaking, it's time for AOR and Enda to retire. They are both way past their peak and have nothing to offer the squad as players. Certainly I would see a role for Enda in the backroom staff but not for being in the championship squad.
Some of the decisions made on the line were too late or just utterly baffling, like taking Lavery off - what the hell was that about? AOR was taken off but too late. Henderson had one pop and missed in extra time, had he scored we would have drawn.
Some of that Monaghan team ought to be in a boxing ring and not a football field. I hope the CCCC take action accordingly and give Woods a lengthy ban
If my memory serves me correctly, Armagh have dished out there fair share of physical stuff over the years, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Maybe it's a wee touch of sour grapes on your part & I think it's fair to say that that's the end of Armagh for the forseeable future.
That has been bantered about for years especially after 2007 - take it you didnt see the minors!!!!
Armagh's minors are impressive, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Armagh seniors are sorted in a few years.
Exactly, as Down have proven.
At least Down will be playing next Saturday night.
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 05, 2009, 07:17:04 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 07:11:44 PM
Quote from: jimbo on July 05, 2009, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: mournerambler on July 05, 2009, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 05, 2009, 06:36:42 PM
Had to take time out after that brutal spectacle of nonsense from Armagh yesterday evening.
Personally speaking, it's time for AOR and Enda to retire. They are both way past their peak and have nothing to offer the squad as players. Certainly I would see a role for Enda in the backroom staff but not for being in the championship squad.
Some of the decisions made on the line were too late or just utterly baffling, like taking Lavery off - what the hell was that about? AOR was taken off but too late. Henderson had one pop and missed in extra time, had he scored we would have drawn.
Some of that Monaghan team ought to be in a boxing ring and not a football field. I hope the CCCC take action accordingly and give Woods a lengthy ban
If my memory serves me correctly, Armagh have dished out there fair share of physical stuff over the years, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Maybe it's a wee touch of sour grapes on your part & I think it's fair to say that that's the end of Armagh for the forseeable future.
That has been bantered about for years especially after 2007 - take it you didnt see the minors!!!!
Armagh's minors are impressive, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Armagh seniors are sorted in a few years.
Exactly, as Down have proven.
At least Down will be playing next Saturday night.
Touch aren't you.?
Whether yous go out next Saturday or the week after you will be nowhere near Sam so you will be in the also-rans with ourselves. Well done on eventually seeing off London though.
For the original point I was saying Down have enjoyed success at minor at U21 in recent years and nothing has come of it.
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 05, 2009, 07:17:04 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 07:11:44 PM
Quote from: jimbo on July 05, 2009, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: mournerambler on July 05, 2009, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 05, 2009, 06:36:42 PM
Had to take time out after that brutal spectacle of nonsense from Armagh yesterday evening.
Personally speaking, it's time for AOR and Enda to retire. They are both way past their peak and have nothing to offer the squad as players. Certainly I would see a role for Enda in the backroom staff but not for being in the championship squad.
Some of the decisions made on the line were too late or just utterly baffling, like taking Lavery off - what the hell was that about? AOR was taken off but too late. Henderson had one pop and missed in extra time, had he scored we would have drawn.
Some of that Monaghan team ought to be in a boxing ring and not a football field. I hope the CCCC take action accordingly and give Woods a lengthy ban
If my memory serves me correctly, Armagh have dished out there fair share of physical stuff over the years, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Maybe it's a wee touch of sour grapes on your part & I think it's fair to say that that's the end of Armagh for the forseeable future.
That has been bantered about for years especially after 2007 - take it you didnt see the minors!!!!
Armagh's minors are impressive, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Armagh seniors are sorted in a few years.
Exactly, as Down have proven.
At least Down will be playing next Saturday night.
Touch aren't you.?
Whether yous go out next Saturday or the week after you will be nowhere near Sam so you will be in the also-rans with ourselves. Well done on eventually seeing off London though.
For the original point I was saying Down have enjoyed success at minor at U21 in recent years and nothing has come of it.
Yeah I got your point but thanks for clearing it up for me...
So whats your views on the management then corn? McDonnell out?
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 05, 2009, 07:22:04 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 05, 2009, 07:17:04 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 07:11:44 PM
Quote from: jimbo on July 05, 2009, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: mournerambler on July 05, 2009, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 05, 2009, 06:36:42 PM
Had to take time out after that brutal spectacle of nonsense from Armagh yesterday evening.
Personally speaking, it's time for AOR and Enda to retire. They are both way past their peak and have nothing to offer the squad as players. Certainly I would see a role for Enda in the backroom staff but not for being in the championship squad.
Some of the decisions made on the line were too late or just utterly baffling, like taking Lavery off - what the hell was that about? AOR was taken off but too late. Henderson had one pop and missed in extra time, had he scored we would have drawn.
Some of that Monaghan team ought to be in a boxing ring and not a football field. I hope the CCCC take action accordingly and give Woods a lengthy ban
If my memory serves me correctly, Armagh have dished out there fair share of physical stuff over the years, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Maybe it's a wee touch of sour grapes on your part & I think it's fair to say that that's the end of Armagh for the forseeable future.
That has been bantered about for years especially after 2007 - take it you didnt see the minors!!!!
Armagh's minors are impressive, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Armagh seniors are sorted in a few years.
Exactly, as Down have proven.
At least Down will be playing next Saturday night.
Touch aren't you.?
Whether yous go out next Saturday or the week after you will be nowhere near Sam so you will be in the also-rans with ourselves. Well done on eventually seeing off London though.
For the original point I was saying Down have enjoyed success at minor at U21 in recent years and nothing has come of it.
Yeah I got your point but thanks for clearing it up for me...
So whats your views on the management then corn? McDonnell out?
The thing is that he has been very unfortunate and that can't be forgotten. I'm sitting on the fence.
The end of an era for this Armagh team. This team has seriously underachieved on the biggest stage - yes they dominated Ulster for a number of years but given the squad of players available over a number of years they should have had more than one All-Ireland. IMO there was too much work done on the weights and body building and not enough speed and endurance training. A wholesale clearout is now required and it will be a number of years until Armagh is a force again - yes they might get a few players from the minors but by the looks of it they need more than a few. Stevie McDonnell seems to have lost a lot of the pace he once possessed and I wouldn't be surprised if he considers hanging up the county boots. Yes he can still take a point when given the time - the only problem is that apart from frees you just don't get that much tim at county level any more. Perhaps he could be better employed in the half forward line.
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:33:43 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 05, 2009, 07:22:04 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 05, 2009, 07:17:04 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 07:11:44 PM
Quote from: jimbo on July 05, 2009, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: mournerambler on July 05, 2009, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 05, 2009, 06:36:42 PM
Had to take time out after that brutal spectacle of nonsense from Armagh yesterday evening.
Personally speaking, it's time for AOR and Enda to retire. They are both way past their peak and have nothing to offer the squad as players. Certainly I would see a role for Enda in the backroom staff but not for being in the championship squad.
Some of the decisions made on the line were too late or just utterly baffling, like taking Lavery off - what the hell was that about? AOR was taken off but too late. Henderson had one pop and missed in extra time, had he scored we would have drawn.
Some of that Monaghan team ought to be in a boxing ring and not a football field. I hope the CCCC take action accordingly and give Woods a lengthy ban
If my memory serves me correctly, Armagh have dished out there fair share of physical stuff over the years, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Maybe it's a wee touch of sour grapes on your part & I think it's fair to say that that's the end of Armagh for the forseeable future.
That has been bantered about for years especially after 2007 - take it you didnt see the minors!!!!
Armagh's minors are impressive, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Armagh seniors are sorted in a few years.
Exactly, as Down have proven.
At least Down will be playing next Saturday night.
Touch aren't you.?
Whether yous go out next Saturday or the week after you will be nowhere near Sam so you will be in the also-rans with ourselves. Well done on eventually seeing off London though.
For the original point I was saying Down have enjoyed success at minor at U21 in recent years and nothing has come of it.
Yeah I got your point but thanks for clearing it up for me...
So whats your views on the management then corn? McDonnell out?
The thing is that he has been very unfortunate and that can't be forgotten. I'm sitting on the fence.
Leaving for example AOR on as long as he did isn't unfortunate, it's bad management.
Armagh county board has to take a lot of the blame as well. After all they went with the cheaper option when picking the new management. Maybe the clubs will stand up for once and appoint people who will do right by the county instead of themselves ???
Quote from: sitdown on July 05, 2009, 07:58:30 PM
Armagh county board has to take a lot of the blame as well. After all they went with the cheaper option when picking the new management. Maybe the clubs will stand up for once and appoint people who will do right by the county instead of themselves ???
Yes, they should have filled a few brown envelopes...
Quote from: jimbo on July 05, 2009, 07:46:41 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:33:43 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 05, 2009, 07:22:04 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 05, 2009, 07:17:04 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 07:11:44 PM
Quote from: jimbo on July 05, 2009, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: mournerambler on July 05, 2009, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 05, 2009, 06:36:42 PM
Had to take time out after that brutal spectacle of nonsense from Armagh yesterday evening.
Personally speaking, it's time for AOR and Enda to retire. They are both way past their peak and have nothing to offer the squad as players. Certainly I would see a role for Enda in the backroom staff but not for being in the championship squad.
Some of the decisions made on the line were too late or just utterly baffling, like taking Lavery off - what the hell was that about? AOR was taken off but too late. Henderson had one pop and missed in extra time, had he scored we would have drawn.
Some of that Monaghan team ought to be in a boxing ring and not a football field. I hope the CCCC take action accordingly and give Woods a lengthy ban
If my memory serves me correctly, Armagh have dished out there fair share of physical stuff over the years, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Maybe it's a wee touch of sour grapes on your part & I think it's fair to say that that's the end of Armagh for the forseeable future.
That has been bantered about for years especially after 2007 - take it you didnt see the minors!!!!
Armagh's minors are impressive, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Armagh seniors are sorted in a few years.
Exactly, as Down have proven.
At least Down will be playing next Saturday night.
Touch aren't you.?
Whether yous go out next Saturday or the week after you will be nowhere near Sam so you will be in the also-rans with ourselves. Well done on eventually seeing off London though.
For the original point I was saying Down have enjoyed success at minor at U21 in recent years and nothing has come of it.
Yeah I got your point but thanks for clearing it up for me...
So whats your views on the management then corn? McDonnell out?
The thing is that he has been very unfortunate and that can't be forgotten. I'm sitting on the fence.
Leaving for example AOR on as long as he did isn't unfortunate, it's bad management.
Agreed, but I was refering to injuries and retirements , not yesterday.
Quote from: sitdown on July 05, 2009, 07:58:30 PM
Armagh county board has to take a lot of the blame as well. After all they went with the cheaper option when picking the new management. Maybe the clubs will stand up for once and appoint people who will do right by the county instead of themselves ???
As far as im led to believe the clubs stood up last time, but the decision was overruled by the county board who appointed their own man .
Quote from: Bensars on July 05, 2009, 08:15:03 PM
Quote from: sitdown on July 05, 2009, 07:58:30 PM
Armagh county board has to take a lot of the blame as well. After all they went with the cheaper option when picking the new management. Maybe the clubs will stand up for once and appoint people who will do right by the county instead of themselves ???
As far as im led to believe the clubs stood up last time, but the decision was overruled by the county board who appointed their own man .
Wasn't Rafferty lined up though?
I thought Andy Mallon was one of the better Armagh players over their two games this year. Yesterday, he suffered a bit due to the picky ref but was first out on most occasions.
Outside of Mallon, Clarke, McDonnell and at a push Kernan, there's nothing really left in that county squad to suggest they'll regain any foothold in the top 6 bracket in the country. I've never been convinced with Ciaran McKeever. He was a big and strong U21 but lacks the talent needed for the level Armagh want to be at. He won possession after the start of the first half and proceded to kick the ball out of touch, attempting a foot pass.
Stevie McDonnell hasn't really been the same since the league of two years ago when he complained to the press about Armagh fans abusing him. Even his soundbite this year - that he wouldn't tog out for the county unless he thought they could win the AI - indicated his patience was wearing thin with this current set-up. Yesterday he spent the game playing as an individual, getting involved with Mone and then yapping to the ref off the ball about what was happening. I don't think it did him any favours with the ref.
I liked the look of young Forker. Brian Mallon and Marty Penrose were similar players a couple of years ago. Whereas Penrose can now pull matchwinning performances out of the hat, Mallon seems lost.
Not convinced at all that the manager McDonnell knows what he's trying to achieve. Although Bellew, Oisin etc are gone he hasn't really set about defining his style. Calling on the O'Rourke and almost McNulty spoke volumes.
I actually miss the Armagh rivallry of 01-05.
Quote from: JMohan on July 05, 2009, 08:28:34 PM
Quote from: Bensars on July 05, 2009, 08:15:03 PM
Quote from: sitdown on July 05, 2009, 07:58:30 PM
Armagh county board has to take a lot of the blame as well. After all they went with the cheaper option when picking the new management. Maybe the clubs will stand up for once and appoint people who will do right by the county instead of themselves ???
As far as im led to believe the clubs stood up last time, but the decision was overruled by the county board who appointed their own man .
Wasn't Rafferty lined up though?
It was between Grimley and McDonnell. Forget why Rafferty didn't put his name forward. Was it ill-health?
Quote from: ONeill on July 05, 2009, 08:41:34 PM
I thought Andy Mallon was one of the better Armagh players over their two games this year. Yesterday, he suffered a bit due to the picky ref but was first out on most occasions.
Outside of Mallon, Clarke, McDonnell and at a push Kernan, there's nothing really left in that county squad to suggest they'll regain any foothold in the top 6 bracket in the country. I've never been convinced with Ciaran McKeever. He was a big and strong U21 but lacks the talent needed for the level Armagh want to be at. He won possession after the start of the first half and proceded to kick the ball out of touch, attempting a foot pass.
I thought Kernan slowed up the attack too much from the HB line
McKeever had a great 1st half on Finlay - after that MIA
Quote from: ONeill on July 05, 2009, 08:41:34 PM
Stevie McDonnell hasn't really been the same since the league of two years ago when he complained to the press about Armagh fans abusing him. Even his soundbite this year - that he wouldn't tog out for the county unless he thought they could win the AI - indicated his patience was wearing thin with this current set-up. Yesterday he spent the game playing as an individual, getting involved with Mone and then yapping to the ref off the ball about what was happening. I don't think it did him any favours with the ref.
Hard to disagree ... sadly
Quote from: ONeill on July 05, 2009, 08:41:34 PM
I liked the look of young Forker. Brian Mallon and Marty Penrose were similar players a couple of years ago. Whereas Penrose can now pull matchwinning performances out of the hat, Mallon seems lost.
Not convinced at all that the manager McDonnell knows what he's trying to achieve. Although Bellew, Oisin etc are gone he hasn't really set about defining his style. Calling on the O'Rourke and almost McNulty spoke volumes.
I actually miss the Armagh rivallry of 01-05.
Quote from: TacadoirArdMhacha on July 05, 2009, 08:43:16 PM
Quote from: JMohan on July 05, 2009, 08:28:34 PM
Quote from: Bensars on July 05, 2009, 08:15:03 PM
Quote from: sitdown on July 05, 2009, 07:58:30 PM
Armagh county board has to take a lot of the blame as well. After all they went with the cheaper option when picking the new management. Maybe the clubs will stand up for once and appoint people who will do right by the county instead of themselves ???
As far as im led to believe the clubs stood up last time, but the decision was overruled by the county board who appointed their own man .
Wasn't Rafferty lined up though?
It was between Grimley and McDonnell. Forget why Rafferty didn't put his name forward. Was it ill-health?
No idea
Its the day after & I am still fuming. Possibly the most chaotic & inept Armagh performance I have ever witnessed. The minor team were better prepared and fitter than yesterdays senior team. Both the O Rourkes were so far off the pace it was'nt funny. Stevie Mc Donnell is about a stone over weight, indeed 30-40% of the team seems to be breathing very heavily during the game & were blown away in extra time. There seems to be major problems in the camp, no one stepped up and gave any leadership.
The game plan was a joke, non existent. What must a fine young player like Finian Morriarity be thinking, sitting on the bench watching O Rourke get roasted.
Questions I'd like to ask the management
1. Why was the team not physically fit?
2. Why are we flogging dead horses (With respect great players in their day) buy to see E Mc Nulty warming up WTF!!
3. WHy was duffy in the half forwards
4. WHy take off lavery?
5. WHat the feck is this new short hand passing game?
6. WHy dhave we learned nothing from last years defeat to wexkford. This was worse.
To be honest, yesterday was an embarrassment for everyone concerned or involved in armagh football. A dark dark day and hopefully a turning point.
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 05, 2009, 10:13:17 PM
Its the day after & I am still fuming. Possibly the most chaotic & inept Armagh performance I have ever witnessed. The minor team were better prepared and fitter than yesterdays senior team. Both the O Rourkes were so far off the pace it was'nt funny. Stevie Mc Donnell is about a stone over weight, indeed 30-40% of the team seems to be breathing very heavily during the game & were blown away in extra time. There seems to be major problems in the camp, no one stepped up and gave any leadership.
The game plan was a joke, non existent. What must a fine young player like Finian Morriarity be thinking, sitting on the bench watching O Rourke get roasted.
Questions I'd like to ask the management
1. Why was the team not physically fit?
2. Why are we flogging dead horses (With respect great players in their day) buy to see E Mc Nulty warming up WTF!!
3. WHy was duffy in the half forwards
4. WHy take off lavery?
5. WHat the feck is this new short hand passing game?
6. WHy dhave we learned nothing from last years defeat to wexkford. This was worse.
To be honest, yesterday was an embarrassment for everyone concerned or involved in armagh football. A dark dark day and hopefully a turning point.
Berf, to be honest, I thought I had seen the worst of Armagh in the 80's and early 90's. Yesterday was the worst performance put forward by any Armagh team I have ever watched. If it is possible for Armagh to be any worse than yesterday I would be amazed
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 05, 2009, 10:13:17 PM
Its the day after & I am still fuming. Possibly the most chaotic & inept Armagh performance I have ever witnessed. The minor team were better prepared and fitter than yesterdays senior team. Both the O Rourkes were so far off the pace it was'nt funny. Stevie Mc Donnell is about a stone over weight, indeed 30-40% of the team seems to be breathing very heavily during the game & were blown away in extra time. There seems to be major problems in the camp, no one stepped up and gave any leadership.
The game plan was a joke, non existent. What must a fine young player like Finian Morriarity be thinking, sitting on the bench watching O Rourke get roasted.
Questions I'd like to ask the management
1. Why was the team not physically fit?
2. Why are we flogging dead horses (With respect great players in their day) buy to see E Mc Nulty warming up WTF!!
3. WHy was duffy in the half forwards
4. WHy take off lavery?
5. WHat the feck is this new short hand passing game?
6. WHy dhave we learned nothing from last years defeat to wexkford. This was worse.
To be honest, yesterday was an embarrassment for everyone concerned or involved in armagh football. A dark dark day and hopefully a turning point.
Good post.
Peter looks to have made up his mind to go based on that RTE interview
It wasn't pretty, But its over and Monaghan are through!
First of all I cant understand why Lavery was taken off - swung the midfield battle in Monaghan's favour.
Butsy played well, good strong and commanding. Full back line was secure, D Freeman did well in a linking up role, McQuaid was so-so, turned over a bit of ball. Darren Hughes was Monaghan's best player imo. Midfield was poor to start with, funnily enough Lennon performed better with Big Benny beside him - there was a collective groan when Big Benny went on, but he 'did rightly'.
Jinxy wasn't his usual self yesterday, but he'll be better the next day. Finlay mightn't have been brilliant from frees, but I thought he did well in open play, got on the ball and took the game to Armagh. Manzie did well, again he was so-so from the placed ball, but when the chips were down, he produced - continues to improve, and will mature into a top class footballer. The FF line was a mixed bag, because so many players were used in there, but overall - job done, and most importantly, they can win without Tommy.
For Armagh, I thought Donaghy was outstanding - particularly as O'Rourke wasn't great. Half back line was OK, but no more. I was disappointed in Toner, and cant understand why Lavery was taken off - its not that he was brilliant, but Armagh definitely suffered when he wnt off. Particularly strange given that MOR and Duffy didn't set the world alight. Clarke and Stevie weren't as big a threat as would have been thought, but the ball going in was seriously slow, and that hindered them.
The minor finished up a bit of a mismatch, didn't think there'd be 7 in it (thought Monaghan would shade it). Finnegan (just about) deserved to go, but that seemed to spur Armagh on. Rowland and Morgan were neat and tidy at the back, Carragher was immense in the middle of the field, Tasker was a constant threat, and McVerry was much improved from the last day. I'd fancy them to win the final. Monaghan were poor on the day - a great pity because a lot of good work had gone into that team. A lot of them are underage next year though.
The writing was on the wall before Tyrone, and even Wexford.
Bear in mind we won an Ulster title, by beating Cavan, Down and needed a replay to beat a mediocre Fermanagh team, who in fairness should have beaten us.
Even as recent as the Tyrone match the lack of a scoring threat was highlighted, yet we persisted with the same tactics, and in fact the personnel took a step backwards.
B.Mallon is good for 2 points a game, MAX
Duffy is a half back, MOR is a half back and Vernon is a Midfielder.
That leaves 2 from 6 forwards who could chip in significant scores.
This was obvious seeing the chances missed by Mallon, MOR and Vernon
The referee was an absolute "THUNDERING" disgrace for the Armagh/Monaghan match . He should never be allowed to ref another game the longest days he's alive .
He destroyed the game . Absolutely f**king destroyed it . A total clown of a man with his shiny whistle .
Armagh looked to have gone 10 steps backwards since the Tyrone game. I don´t understand how their fitness levels could have dropped so far in comparison to Monaghans. If I was an Armagh fan, I wouldn´t have had any hair left after that second half, extra time would have killed me off altogether. That's why I wouldn´t get too far ahead with where Monaghan are at right now.
It is still just a hope that next week they can raise their game to what it took to beat Donegal last year.
We can do without Freeman for a game, but a second and possibly a third, when the players coming in for him are struggling?
Possibly Derry will have gone off whatever bit of boil they had going for them and the crowd might be more up for it.
Quote from: Benny Barnaveld on July 06, 2009, 12:22:21 AM
B.Mallon is good for 2 points a game, MAX
Duffy is a half back, MOR is a half back and Vernon is a Midfielder.
That leaves 2 from 6 forwards who could chip in significant scores.
This was obvious seeing the chances missed by Mallon, MOR and Vernon
Lets face reality. We currently have only 1 scoring forward (i.e.) Ronan Clarke of the 6 that started yesterday. Stevie Mc has been a great servant for Armagh football but his best days are well and truly in the past. I wouldn't consider the remaining 4 forwards that started yesterday to be of any significant scoring threat (and that is being being very kind about it). The likes of Jamie Clarke and Stefan Forker need to now be given a real opportunity.
I felt that the Wexford last year would see the end of the overly defensive style of play we had slipped into but this match brought it to a new low. Virtually everything that there is to say has been covered, McDonnell looked dejected there on RTE and I'd imagine he will stand down.
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 08:12:08 PM
Quote from: jimbo on July 05, 2009, 07:46:41 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:33:43 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 05, 2009, 07:22:04 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:20:38 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 05, 2009, 07:17:04 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 05, 2009, 07:15:03 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 05, 2009, 07:11:44 PM
Quote from: jimbo on July 05, 2009, 06:58:12 PM
Quote from: mournerambler on July 05, 2009, 06:51:35 PM
Quote from: ardmhachaabu on July 05, 2009, 06:36:42 PM
Had to take time out after that brutal spectacle of nonsense from Armagh yesterday evening.
Personally speaking, it's time for AOR and Enda to retire. They are both way past their peak and have nothing to offer the squad as players. Certainly I would see a role for Enda in the backroom staff but not for being in the championship squad.
Some of the decisions made on the line were too late or just utterly baffling, like taking Lavery off - what the hell was that about? AOR was taken off but too late. Henderson had one pop and missed in extra time, had he scored we would have drawn.
Some of that Monaghan team ought to be in a boxing ring and not a football field. I hope the CCCC take action accordingly and give Woods a lengthy ban
If my memory serves me correctly, Armagh have dished out there fair share of physical stuff over the years, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
Maybe it's a wee touch of sour grapes on your part & I think it's fair to say that that's the end of Armagh for the forseeable future.
That has been bantered about for years especially after 2007 - take it you didnt see the minors!!!!
Armagh's minors are impressive, but that doesn't necessarily mean that Armagh seniors are sorted in a few years.
Exactly, as Down have proven.
At least Down will be playing next Saturday night.
Touch aren't you.?
Whether yous go out next Saturday or the week after you will be nowhere near Sam so you will be in the also-rans with ourselves. Well done on eventually seeing off London though.
For the original point I was saying Down have enjoyed success at minor at U21 in recent years and nothing has come of it.
Yeah I got your point but thanks for clearing it up for me...
So whats your views on the management then corn? McDonnell out?
The thing is that he has been very unfortunate and that can't be forgotten. I'm sitting on the fence.
Leaving for example AOR on as long as he did isn't unfortunate, it's bad management.
Agreed, but I was refering to injuries and retirements , not yesterday.
Sorry I was talking about the knock out stages of the all-ireland - management was inept!!!
Very poor display on Saturday night
Was more disappointed with the way we played & lack of direction rather than the result.
We had no plan B at all
Teams know what Armagh will go out & try and do & know if you stop it we are fcuked
Its time to knock the weights on the head & get back to high intense training with the ball IMHO
Forget this sh1te of building your body up to the point we are fcuked in the latter quarter of games
Too many of the Armagh players look top heavy
Donaghy & Mallon played well
AK performed ok & had to attack as the HF line went AWOL on occasions
Why was Lavery taken off? The Armagh midfield had been winning up until this point. A fatal mistake
Nothing else to say >:(
Edit
The referee was terrible. Granted the Armagh tackling was poor on occasions, but he had a brutal game.
Mc Donnell deserved to go, but WTF is the referee going over to tap the Monaghan player on the shoulder & wink at him FFS
Listen that ref was crap, but Ive been banging on about this for a long time. When are referees going to realise that footballers like Stevie Mc Donnell are getting the lining kicked out of them before they strike, they are getting no protection whatsoever and why the hell should they continue to take it. How many times do we see the forward sent off because he has lost the bap after geetting no protection from the officials. Also thon Woods lad need busted.
I don't think Stevie is finished at all. His best position has changed just. He no longer has the pace for the full forward line. He has played his best football this year dropping deeper, winning & supplying ball into Clarke & co. He should be named (& PLAYED!) at 11. He is our Padraig Joyce!
Quote from: Joxer on July 05, 2009, 05:53:25 PM
Hindsight could show for a number of reasons this could be the best thing to happen to Armagh
Thats what we said after Wexford.
Glad to see the Irish News got the MOTM spot on. Donaghy gpt it comfortably, right decision, he was outstanding - again.
They've given Fahy a bit of a roasting!
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 09:49:28 AM
They've given Fahy a bit of a roasting!
Deserves it Maguire.
The way Armagh played thay can't use him as anxcuse but , imho, it was one of the most one-sided performances I ever saw.
Given the distinct possibility that McDonnell and his team will step down now (and i believe they should), who would be in the running for the job. McGeeney presumably wouldnt be interested at the moment because he is doing well with Kildare and likely getting rewarded as such. Paul Grimley could be seen as taking a step back to the JK era, somewhere we dont want to go either.
We need a breath of fresh air, a manager that will pick 6 forwards for a start. Big name outsiders dont come cheap and therefore would not expect Armagh to get one.
Any thoughts ?
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 05, 2009, 10:13:17 PM
Its the day after & I am still fuming. Possibly the most chaotic & inept Armagh performance I have ever witnessed. The minor team were better prepared and fitter than yesterdays senior team. Both the O Rourkes were so far off the pace it was'nt funny. Stevie Mc Donnell is about a stone over weight, indeed 30-40% of the team seems to be breathing very heavily during the game & were blown away in extra time. There seems to be major problems in the camp, no one stepped up and gave any leadership.
The game plan was a joke, non existent. What must a fine young player like Finian Morriarity be thinking, sitting on the bench watching O Rourke get roasted.
Questions I'd like to ask the management
1. Why was the team not physically fit?
2. Why are we flogging dead horses (With respect great players in their day) buy to see E Mc Nulty warming up WTF!!
3. WHy was duffy in the half forwards
4. WHy take off lavery?
5. WHat the feck is this new short hand passing game?
6. WHy dhave we learned nothing from last years defeat to wexkford. This was worse.
To be honest, yesterday was an embarrassment for everyone concerned or involved in armagh football. A dark dark day and hopefully a turning point.
????????
Dont think he is quite the accomplished player you make him out to be just yet
I think theres only one manageemnt team in Armagh that have the pedigree to build a team, they built the greatest team in Armaghs history and thats the 2 brians. I would suggest a 2/3 year term with Mc Geeney a realistic option afterwards.
Quote from: maddog on July 06, 2009, 10:17:30 AM
Given the distinct possibility that McDonnell and his team will step down now (and i believe they should), who would be in the running for the job. McGeeney presumably wouldnt be interested at the moment because he is doing well with Kildare and likely getting rewarded as such. Paul Grimley could be seen as taking a step back to the JK era, somewhere we dont want to go either.
We need a breath of fresh air, a manager that will pick 6 forwards for a start. Big name outsiders dont come cheap and therefore would not expect Armagh to get one.
Any thoughts ?
Have to disagree with you there maddog, Paul Grimley was and still is the best man for the Armagh job BUT he was shafted by the county board when McDonnell was appointed and is doing well with Kildare and is highly unlikely to walk out on them with things progressing as they are down there. Personally, I don't think it's right to speculate as to who McDonnell's successor is until he resigns.
If PMD was to resign McGeeney & Grimley would be mad to touch the Armagh job.
When you compare the 2 counties (Kildare/Armagh) there seems to be a lot more potential & drive in the Kildare team with more potential for the future (i.e 5 years)
Quote from: mackers on July 06, 2009, 10:34:47 AM
Quote from: maddog on July 06, 2009, 10:17:30 AM
Given the distinct possibility that McDonnell and his team will step down now (and i believe they should), who would be in the running for the job. McGeeney presumably wouldnt be interested at the moment because he is doing well with Kildare and likely getting rewarded as such. Paul Grimley could be seen as taking a step back to the JK era, somewhere we dont want to go either.
We need a breath of fresh air, a manager that will pick 6 forwards for a start. Big name outsiders dont come cheap and therefore would not expect Armagh to get one.
Any thoughts ?
Have to disagree with you there maddog, Paul Grimley was and still is the best man for the Armagh job BUT he was shafted by the county board when McDonnell was appointed and is doing well with Kildare and is highly unlikely to walk out on them with things progressing as they are down there. Personally, I don't think it's right to speculate as to who McDonnell's successor is until he resigns.
I would have liked to have seen PG get the job but what i meant was "could be seen" i.e by some people, not my own view. Personally i think given the standard/the lack of heart / game plan etc served up on Saturday that speculation isnt far enough. The wheels should be in motion.
I was lucky enough not to have seen the match at the weekend but after reading the past ten pages it seems that a new direction is needed...
a full clear out of management and a full clear out of the county board is also required, too many w&$kers in the county board who have big decisions to make and just dont have the balls or the intellect to make them
Quote from: umgolaarmagh on July 06, 2009, 10:50:40 AM
I was lucky enough not to have seen the match at the weekend
Yet you still saw fit to accuse me of Dromintee bias without seeing it? FFS. ::)
Quote from: maddog on July 06, 2009, 10:17:30 AM
Given the distinct possibility that McDonnell and his team will step down now (and i believe they should), who would be in the running for the job. McGeeney presumably wouldnt be interested at the moment because he is doing well with Kildare and likely getting rewarded as such. Paul Grimley could be seen as taking a step back to the JK era, somewhere we dont want to go either.
We need a breath of fresh air, a manager that will pick 6 forwards for a start. Big name outsiders dont come cheap and therefore would not expect Armagh to get one.
Any thoughts ?
Seannie Agnew!
Quote from: corn02 on July 06, 2009, 10:53:25 AM
Quote from: umgolaarmagh on July 06, 2009, 10:50:40 AM
I was lucky enough not to have seen the match at the weekend
Yet you still saw fit to accuse me of Dromintee bias without seeing it? FFS. ::)
Corn; by reading your quotes was enough to show your bias, and of course sticking up for my own club man like your doing as well
from his interview on rte i believe mc donnell will step down, i also believe that geezer will stay with Kildare but paul grimley may feel ha has unfinished business with armagh, i would like a duo of grimley and mc alinden to take the county forward, the one difficulty we have is that the funds are no longer in place to bring in the professionalism that was in place when Joe was there.
for me mc alinden has a doggedness about him that we need, whilst paul would be a link man with the team, they have both also tasted success with armagh so they know what we need,
our defence is fine as is our midfield options altho i am still not convinced about CV being a midfielder, what we need is a forward line that works, in the two championship games this year we only scored 11 scores in each and against monaghan the scores from open play only amounted to 4 clearly there was no system in place nor were there any forwards confident enough to shoot, it was painful watching shannon , mor and mc keever shooting at various stages in the match,
i also believe we have too many small men in the forward line, clarke is the only one i am confident will win at least 60% of 50/50 balls coming into him
Quote from: umgolaarmagh on July 06, 2009, 11:11:40 AM
Quote from: corn02 on July 06, 2009, 10:53:25 AM
Quote from: umgolaarmagh on July 06, 2009, 10:50:40 AM
I was lucky enough not to have seen the match at the weekend
Yet you still saw fit to accuse me of Dromintee bias without seeing it? FFS. ::)
Corn; by reading your quotes was enough to show your bias, and of course sticking up for my own club man like your doing as well
Ah so we're both showing our biasm then? ;)
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on July 06, 2009, 11:01:17 AM
Quote from: maddog on July 06, 2009, 10:17:30 AM
Given the distinct possibility that McDonnell and his team will step down now (and i believe they should), who would be in the running for the job. McGeeney presumably wouldnt be interested at the moment because he is doing well with Kildare and likely getting rewarded as such. Paul Grimley could be seen as taking a step back to the JK era, somewhere we dont want to go either.
We need a breath of fresh air, a manager that will pick 6 forwards for a start. Big name outsiders dont come cheap and therefore would not expect Armagh to get one.
Any thoughts ?
Seannie Agnew!
Is he the boy that wears the shorts?
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on July 06, 2009, 11:01:17 AM
Quote from: maddog on July 06, 2009, 10:17:30 AM
Given the distinct possibility that McDonnell and his team will step down now (and i believe they should), who would be in the running for the job. McGeeney presumably wouldnt be interested at the moment because he is doing well with Kildare and likely getting rewarded as such. Paul Grimley could be seen as taking a step back to the JK era, somewhere we dont want to go either.
We need a breath of fresh air, a manager that will pick 6 forwards for a start. Big name outsiders dont come cheap and therefore would not expect Armagh to get one.
Any thoughts ?
Seannie Agnew!
And what would be on his CV ?
I just had a quick look at the first half last night.
I would not have much issue with the ref being mostly right but he could have let an awful lot of it go.
He actually made an average enough game, stutter and stumble into unwatchable for the neutral.
I didn't see Vinny Corey go down clutching his face, simply because he did not go down clutching his face.
He went down after some contact was made and he received treatment aound his collarbone.
You can make your own mind up about it.
I predicted before the game on another discussion board that this would be a dour match and that the team with the more passion and hunger would win it. I predicted Monaghn would win by the minimun and this they did. I have no gripe with Monaghan, had we won by a point we would not be worrying to much about how we did it . This for Monaghan would have been the end of Banty's four or five years . And a few players would go with him. There was alot riding on the game for him and yes Armagh had that to but I felt that Armagh hadn't the same balls for it as Monaghan . It's a general feeling I had while watching the game. Physically Monaghan were bigger in every sector of the field. I noticed that not one Armagh player was Taller than his immediate opponent with possibly the exception of Mc Donnell and clarke.
For me the game was lost five minutes either side of half time . Whatever football Armagh played they did it in the 15 to twenty minutes before half time . We went in 6-4 up and in the final five minutes of that half we missed a goal through inept fumbling on the edge of the square and Clarke hit the outsiide of the post. Monaghn in my opinion were reeling and half time was a welcome relief for them. Within two mi nutes of the restart Aidan O Rourke gave a way two soft frees and Monaghan were back in the game. It mystified me and everyone else as to why Lavery was taken of. He was on the ball quite a bit . His confidence wa good and I know personally that he really wanted to make amends for the horror show he put on against Monaghan in the national league. This was his chance and he wanted to make it count but of he went and so to the midfield battle.
We can talk all night about Monaghan's tactics but did we really expect any different. It wasn't pretty. It rarely is, but that's it we had to expect that and deal with it. We didn't. Brendan Donaghy was our best player by a mile and it was so frustrating watching him give a ball to a team mate , make a furious run down field to recieve the return at some stage only to find that the ball had been played back to were he literally gave the pass. No wonder he looked to the heavens.
The ref yes was terrible and in my opinion did little to protect the mauling of Clarke and Mc Donnell. His biggest mistake for me was that he blew the whistle tweny seconds to early( some may argue he didn't blow it early enough). Armagh had the ball on the Monaghan 45 mtre line and about to launch a last minute attack and he blew the whistle. Strange one that.
The fallout from this could be big. Not so much the defeat but the manner of it. Against Wexford last year we ,while digusted with tactics, in general thought , well first year etc etc give him the chance benifit of the doubt. This year it ain't so simple. He may well have lost the dressing room battle. Only 9 players went back to the hotel Hillgrove for the meal. The dressing room spats at half time and before extra time won't help either. Armagh scored four points from play in allmost a hundred minutes football. Not good enough nor near it.
Where to from here? We need to look for a settled panel next year .
The loss of Cross players at a vital team building phase every year takes it's toll . No fault of the Cross I may add. Much as I hate to admit Aidan and Martin along with enda should look at the inevitable and make way. We have a reasonable defence . Midfiled needs to be sorted and scoring forwards nutured ie Forker, O'Rorke etc. We do not have enough quality at that end of the field where it counts. The journey back will be long and hard and more days like sataurday may have to be endured before the tide turns in our favour again. Paul Grimley and McGeeney will not be near Armagh, once bitten twice shy. The in house politics that flourishes so well in Armagh , much to our detriment will leave it very difficult for a new manager to come in and in particular big paul and geezer. Is Brian Mac alinden the answer? My abiding memory of Brian is him climbing over the barrier in 2001 to fight with an Armagh fan in Croke park on that day against Galway. Funny but true. He won't want to go back to that again. Brian Mc Ivor , now there's an idea. Something however tells me that this time next year the dulcet tones of Peter Mcd will still be reverberating in the dressing room . however lets look on with hope . It's always better to light a candle that curse the dark. Good luck Monaghan My Da was born near cremartin.
Quote from: rionach 4 on July 06, 2009, 12:40:14 PM
It's a general feeling I had while watching the game. Physically Monaghan were bigger in every sector of the field. I noticed that not one Armagh player was Taller than his immediate opponent with possibly the exception of Mc Donnell and clarke.
If that were true it would make Armagh one of the smallest teams in the country.
QuoteWe can talk all night about Monaghan's tactics but did we really expect any different. It wasn't pretty. It rarely is, but that's it we had to expect that and deal with it. We didn't.
Armagh foul count was much higher. With regularity they lazily pulled/dragged, with no attempt to tackle, the Monaghan player on the ball racing out of defense, generally Monaghan just tried to close down Armagh playing the ball out of their defense.
I cannot remember such an inept performance from an Armagh side. Where are the leaders on the pitch ? The more experienced heads on the team should be driving the others not be a cumbersome burden. Id imagine there will be another batch of retirements the Enda McNulty the O' Rourkes (thanks enda and Aidan for massive efforts over the years, they owe armagh nothing)
The only positives for me was the performance of Brendan Donaghy at full back. Should be first name on the team sheet every time but ive a suspicion he might be worth a run at centre half back. Aaron kernan needs to get some urgency into his game, sauntering down the field holding up the ball is frustrating to our only two forwards. Happy enough with the defenders available to us, they can once again be a cohesive unit under the right system. A full forward line of Clarke McDonnell and either Brian Mallon/Forker/Kevin O Rourke could work well. Midfield we have options. The big question is where do we find 3 half forwards. Answers on a postcard.
On Saturdays performance its not as manager we should be calling Kildare but telling him to bring his boots!!
on another note. I have always liked Monaghan and felt the 2 counties had a natural affintiy. However,the shit i had to take on the way back up the hill on saturday was a joke. "Say hello to the Queen" "Remember your passport on the way back" etc being shouted by louts who didnt even go to the game IN THEIR OWN COUNTY!!!
I must say its a bit rich when Monaghan have won nothing of note in 20 odd years, and rode on our backs as "supporters" during our glory years. The county never takes a crowd to matches - even when they are played in Clones and rely on the Orchard to fund the Clones pubs during the summer. I realise this may be a generalisation but I will find it hard to cheer for Monaghan (as I would normally do) in the next round after this abuse.
after the fall out in the changing rooms after the match i would hopethat peter would realise that a new manager is needed to harness the spirit that once was there.
what happened in the changing rooms?
heard a few players werent too happy with managerial decisions etc
Sorry Mian street but I looked at every pairing and bar one or two Monaghn were physicaly bigger . A few people around me made the same comment. Armagh do have players that lack height. paul Duffy Andy Mallon Keiran Mc Keever Brian Mallon . Tony Kernan. Martin Orourke. Charlie Vernon is smalll for a midfielder. McKenna who came on for Monaghan was huge .Finlay . Ronaghan Clerkin etc. It was noticeable.
Rionach, you are right, this match was only going to turn out one way, a dour struggle, and a lot of outsiders would say that that would suit Armagh but I felt it was the last thing we needed. In years gone by, Geezer, McGrane and the twins would've given as much as they took but we are now an inexperienced team in a lot of sectors, most importantly, midfield. Toner, Vernon and McKenna all are too young to start "mixing" it. Monaghan were clearly the more physical team and it's fairly lazy analysis to say Armagh are physical, we aren't the big team we were.
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
on another note. I have always liked Monaghan and felt the 2 counties had a natural affintiy. However,the shit i had to take on the way back up the hill on saturday was a joke. "Say hello to the Queen" "Remember your passport on the way back" etc being shouted by louts who didnt even go to the game IN THEIR OWN COUNTY!!!
Every county has louts and unfortunately it reflects badly on the rest of us. The fact that these ones weren't even at the game says a lot.
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
I must say its a bit rich when Monaghan have won nothing of note in 20 odd years, and rode on our backs as "supporters" during our glory years. The county never takes a crowd to matches - even when they are played in Clones and rely on the Orchard to fund the Clones pubs during the summer. I realise this may be a generalisation but I will find it hard to cheer for Monaghan (as I would normally do) in the next round after this abuse.
Yes, Monaghan people were happy to support Armagh, as a neighbour who came through dark years and landed the big one. But to say Monaghan never take a crowd to matches is total crap - they're one of the best supported teams in the country, despite having one of the smallest populations.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-devotion-to-boys-in-blue-confirmed-by-loyalty-trends-1710085.html
Too much negativity on this thread. If you want a really crap Armagh performance in the Championship just look at our last Championship game on home soil to Derry in 1995. Armagh football was at its lowest ebb then yet within 4 years we were undisputed kings of ulster, within 5 years we were taking Kerry to replays in AI semi finals and losing unluckily in extra time, and within 7 years we were All Ireland Champions.
Fact is that with an inexperienced team we took Monaghan to the wire (a team vastly more experienced than this Armagh side and that has run Kerry very close in the last two seasons) and could easily have won the game with a bit more composure and accuracy in front of goals.
A team of savages like Monaghan was the last team this Armagh side needed in the first round of the qualifiers, but thats the way it goes. This season is no worse than two years ago when we exited at the same stage to arguably an inferior team to Monaghan (in those days at any rate) Derry.
By the way is there room in next year's Armagh team for young Tasker and Mc Verry from the Minors? They're as good a Minor players as I've seen and that includes Martin Clark etc.
There are yaps in every county. The Monaghan boys who were shouting the British stuff were out of order (I told one clown that at the game, and reminded him that his mother was from Keady) and the Armagh fans shouting abuse at Peter McDonnell were every bit as bad.
Exactly. I never have nor never will slag off any Armagh player or manager, but a lot of so called Armagh supporters on this thread are reminiscent of Tyrone fans, whose opinion of their manager is conditioned by the latest result/performance.
Remember how Mickey was the devil incarnate after the defeat to Down last year yet a few months later he was a superhuman tactical genius etc etc.
I realy thought Armagh supporters weren't as fickle as that
Quote from: thebandit on July 06, 2009, 03:57:18 PM
There are yaps in every county. The Monaghan boys who were shouting the British stuff were out of order (I told one clown that at the game, and reminded him that his mother was from Keady) and the Armagh fans shouting abuse at Peter McDonnell were every bit as bad.
He sounds like that gobshite protesting outside croker about soccer being played there and him with a celtic top on.
It's ok to be disappointed but screaming at the manager after he has gut had his guts ripped out is patently unfair.
That said he should resign, not because of the loss but because he has not kept his promise of change and we are getting worse and morale is at an all time low. In short he has lost the players and the fans and is untenable at this point.
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
on another note. I have always liked Monaghan and felt the 2 counties had a natural affintiy. However,the shit i had to take on the way back up the hill on saturday was a joke. "Say hello to the Queen" "Remember your passport on the way back" etc being shouted by louts who didnt even go to the game IN THEIR OWN COUNTY!!!
Every county has louts and unfortunately it reflects badly on the rest of us. The fact that these ones weren't even at the game says a lot.
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
I must say its a bit rich when Monaghan have won nothing of note in 20 odd years, and rode on our backs as "supporters" during our glory years. The county never takes a crowd to matches - even when they are played in Clones and rely on the Orchard to fund the Clones pubs during the summer. I realise this may be a generalisation but I will find it hard to cheer for Monaghan (as I would normally do) in the next round after this abuse.
Yes, Monaghan people were happy to support Armagh, as a neighbour who came through dark years and landed the big one. But to say Monaghan never take a crowd to matches is total crap - they're one of the best supported teams in the country, despite having one of the smallest populations.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-devotion-to-boys-in-blue-confirmed-by-loyalty-trends-1710085.html
sorry, but thats just not true. Financial figures in league games are what your quoting here. This could be down to more people paying extra for seating rather than terracing than the actual crowd. Every time we play Monaghan its pretty much the same with Armagh. We bring the majority of the fans, Monaghan dont - in Clones.
Point taken about the louts as we have ours in Armagh too, but it irks me that total shits sit in the pub all day when the match is round the corner and wait for us (who have travelled an hour and more to go to the game) to start shouting that we're British and all that guff. 1 win and their county's on the road to Croker?Ha!
I would say to them, try going through the shit we've had to endure for God knows how long and we still represent our clubs and follow our county up and down the country, and say we're British. Fcuk off.
Rant over.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 06, 2009, 04:12:39 PM
Remember how Mickey was the devil incarnate after the defeat to Down last year yet a few months later he was a superhuman tactical genius etc etc.
Yes i do, however Mickey Harte wasnt out of the championship. We are.
Mickey would have been out of last year's Championship as well in July had Westmeath not had two players sent off in quick succession when they were lording it over Tyrone in the qualifiers at Omagh.
How many years have you been watching Armagh sonny?
Quote from: corn02 on July 04, 2009, 11:44:52 PM
Just reading OrchardCounty and Marty is getting a pasting there too so I could be wrong on that one. I thought he done well, he was in the full back line and in the full forward line, covered some ground. But, as I said, it looks like I am on my own. So willing to be proved wrong.
Corn02, i know you are only sticking up for your own, but come on call a spade a spade. Marty O Rourke would not have been impressed by himself on Saturday or this season. He wasnt alone unfortunately. If the lad is injured then maybe there is an excuse but surely they shouldnt be starting or persisting with an injured man. Either way something is wrong.
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 04:23:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
I must say its a bit rich when Monaghan have won nothing of note in 20 odd years, and rode on our backs as "supporters" during our glory years. The county never takes a crowd to matches - even when they are played in Clones and rely on the Orchard to fund the Clones pubs during the summer. I realise this may be a generalisation but I will find it hard to cheer for Monaghan (as I would normally do) in the next round after this abuse.
Yes, Monaghan people were happy to support Armagh, as a neighbour who came through dark years and landed the big one. But to say Monaghan never take a crowd to matches is total crap - they're one of the best supported teams in the country, despite having one of the smallest populations.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-devotion-to-boys-in-blue-confirmed-by-loyalty-trends-1710085.html
sorry, but thats just not true. Financial figures in league games are what your quoting here. This could be down to more people paying extra for seating rather than terracing than the actual crowd. Every time we play Monaghan its pretty much the same with Armagh. We bring the majority of the fans, Monaghan dont - in Clones.
Armagh have a bigger population, so i'd expect them to have a bigger crowd. And I wasn't comparing Monaghan support to Armagh's - I fully acknowledge that Armagh are well supported, I was just countering your statement that "Monaghan never takes a crowd to matches" which is clearly bull. In the league final for example, Monaghan had more support than Cork, Kerry and Derry combined (not that that's a massive achievement in itself!). Monaghan are known as one of the best supported counties in the country.
And yes, well done to the Armagh supporters for travelling "an hour and more to the game". Although it's worth noting that some Armagh fans would actually be closer to Clones than some Monaghan fans.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 06, 2009, 04:31:41 PM
Mickey would have been out of last year's Championship as well in July had Westmeath not had two players sent off in quick succession when they were lording it over Tyrone in the qualifiers at Omagh.
How many years have you been watching Armagh sonny?
If, could have, should have etc etc. Means nothing. History tells us Westmeath lost that match and Tyrone went on to win the all-Ireland. Lets not deal in ifs and buts.
And how long have i been watching Armagh, well put it like this, not as long as you ;)
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 04:23:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
I must say its a bit rich when Monaghan have won nothing of note in 20 odd years, and rode on our backs as "supporters" during our glory years. The county never takes a crowd to matches - even when they are played in Clones and rely on the Orchard to fund the Clones pubs during the summer. I realise this may be a generalisation but I will find it hard to cheer for Monaghan (as I would normally do) in the next round after this abuse.
Yes, Monaghan people were happy to support Armagh, as a neighbour who came through dark years and landed the big one. But to say Monaghan never take a crowd to matches is total crap - they're one of the best supported teams in the country, despite having one of the smallest populations.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-devotion-to-boys-in-blue-confirmed-by-loyalty-trends-1710085.html
sorry, but thats just not true. Financial figures in league games are what your quoting here. This could be down to more people paying extra for seating rather than terracing than the actual crowd. Every time we play Monaghan its pretty much the same with Armagh. We bring the majority of the fans, Monaghan dont - in Clones.
Armagh have a bigger population, so i'd expect them to have a bigger crowd. And I wasn't comparing Monaghan support to Armagh's - I fully acknowledge that Armagh are well supported, I was just countering your statement that "Monaghan never takes a crowd to matches" which is clearly bull. In the league final for example, Monaghan had more support than Cork, Kerry and Derry combined (not that that's a massive achievement in itself!). Monaghan are known as one of the best supported counties in the country.
And yes, well done to the Armagh supporters for travelling "an hour and more to the game". Although it's worth noting that some Armagh fans would actually be closer to Clones than some Monaghan fans.
if you hadnt had a bigger crowd than derry, cork and Kerry you would been worried lol!
to be honest the Monaghan crowd is a tangent i went off on because of the way we were treated walking through the town on Saturday from boys in numerous pubs. I dont have a problem with the majority of the monaghan fans but some boys need to remember they were only a signature away from spending sterling themselves once upon a time.
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 04:42:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 04:23:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
I must say its a bit rich when Monaghan have won nothing of note in 20 odd years, and rode on our backs as "supporters" during our glory years. The county never takes a crowd to matches - even when they are played in Clones and rely on the Orchard to fund the Clones pubs during the summer. I realise this may be a generalisation but I will find it hard to cheer for Monaghan (as I would normally do) in the next round after this abuse.
Yes, Monaghan people were happy to support Armagh, as a neighbour who came through dark years and landed the big one. But to say Monaghan never take a crowd to matches is total crap - they're one of the best supported teams in the country, despite having one of the smallest populations.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-devotion-to-boys-in-blue-confirmed-by-loyalty-trends-1710085.html
sorry, but thats just not true. Financial figures in league games are what your quoting here. This could be down to more people paying extra for seating rather than terracing than the actual crowd. Every time we play Monaghan its pretty much the same with Armagh. We bring the majority of the fans, Monaghan dont - in Clones.
Armagh have a bigger population, so i'd expect them to have a bigger crowd. And I wasn't comparing Monaghan support to Armagh's - I fully acknowledge that Armagh are well supported, I was just countering your statement that "Monaghan never takes a crowd to matches" which is clearly bull. In the league final for example, Monaghan had more support than Cork, Kerry and Derry combined (not that that's a massive achievement in itself!). Monaghan are known as one of the best supported counties in the country.
And yes, well done to the Armagh supporters for travelling "an hour and more to the game". Although it's worth noting that some Armagh fans would actually be closer to Clones than some Monaghan fans.
if you hadnt had a bigger crowd than derry, cork and Kerry you would been worried lol!
to be honest the Monaghan crowd is a tangent i went off on because of the way we were treated walking through the town on Saturday from boys in numerous pubs. I dont have a problem with the majority of the monaghan fans but some boys need to remember they were only a signature away from spending sterling themselves once upon a time.
Id say a few of them at the minute secretly wish they were earning and spending the sterling rather than getting raped by their own.
When was the last time Stevie McDonnell took a man on, either rounded them or won a free? I can't remember it.
Has the man lost the ability to take a defender on? Anytime he gets the ball and is confronted by a defender, he immediately back tracks and looks for another option.
Shocking performance from Armagh, worst in a long, long time.
Anyone else see the altercation between the Guard and driver who he had pulled in after the game for being DIC? Didn't know whether to laugh or cry? Don't think the guy was even at the game, might even have been a foreign national but he was obviously drunk (turning right down the hill just in front of Creightons which takes you out eventually to the Monaghan Road) and was pulled in by a Guard, and then he proceeded to fight tooth and nail with the Guard when he got out of his vehicle, until a few civilians came to the Guard's rescue and were followed by every male and female guard in Clones (would say the bloke got a hot reception in Clones station later). Surreal.
Did you get good seats in the stand Tony?
Quote from: haveaharp on July 06, 2009, 04:32:04 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 04, 2009, 11:44:52 PM
Just reading OrchardCounty and Marty is getting a pasting there too so I could be wrong on that one. I thought he done well, he was in the full back line and in the full forward line, covered some ground. But, as I said, it looks like I am on my own. So willing to be proved wrong.
Corn02, i know you are only sticking up for your own, but come on call a spade a spade. Marty O Rourke would not have been impressed by himself on Saturday or this season. He wasnt alone unfortunately. If the lad is injured then maybe there is an excuse but surely they shouldnt be starting or persisting with an injured man. Either way something is wrong.
Yip, I stand corrected. Certainly wasn;t the worst player on show, but judging by everyone else's reaction, I called it wrong.
I have to laugh at some of the Armagh posters here who suffer from serious short term memory loss. It wasn't that long ago after the 1 point defeat by Galway in 2001 that supporters were calling for the 2 Brian's to be axed as Armagh managers. Statements like "they can't bring us over the finishing line" were being thrown about at that time. Now the same "supporters" are asking for the 2 Brian's or at least one of them to come back again. Under Brian McAlinden this years Armagh U21 team displayed exactly the same self destruct capability as was the case when he was in charge of the Armagh seniors back in 2000 against Kerry. For those of you who can't remember the Armagh seniors had Kerry beat in the 2000 All-Ireland semi but lost and again in this years Ulster U21 final against Down the Armagh U21 team had Down beat but lost.
Quote from: PatDaly on July 06, 2009, 05:17:27 PM
I have to laugh at some of the Armagh posters here who suffer from serious short term memory loss. It wasn't that long ago after the 1 point defeat by Galway in 2001 that supporters were calling for the 2 Brian's to be axed as Armagh managers. Statements like "they can't bring us over the finishing line" were being thrown about at that time. Now the same "supporters" are asking for the 2 Brian's or at least one of them to come back again. Under Brian McAlinden this years Armagh U21 team displayed exactly the same self destruct capability as was the case when he was in charge of the Armagh seniors back in 2000 against Kerry. For those of you who can't remember the Armagh seniors had Kerry beat in the 2000 All-Ireland semi but lost and again in this years Ulster U21 final against Down the Armagh U21 team had Down beat but lost.
couldn't agree more, been there done that with Brian. however, we were vindicated in our collective opinion circa 2001 the next year. I cant see us being quite as happy at the end of the 2010 series.
So what are the options then IF McDonnell goes?
Quote from: Trevor Hill on July 06, 2009, 04:57:45 PM
Did you get good seats in the stand Tony?
I got in at half time in the minor game and at that stage all of the covered seats were taken. Thankfully the rain stayed off.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 06, 2009, 04:12:39 PM
Exactly. I never have nor never will slag off any Armagh player or manager, but a lot of so called Armagh supporters on this thread are reminiscent of Tyrone fans, whose opinion of their manager is conditioned by the latest result/performance.
Remember how Mickey was the devil incarnate after the defeat to Down last year yet a few months later he was a superhuman tactical genius etc etc.
I realy thought Armagh supporters weren't as fickle as that
I try to do the same TF. I think that we have come to a crossroads with Peter though and that it has to be admitted he has not brought the necessary changes to the squad. By that I mean that the hard decisions weren't taken. Certain players are past their prime, without knocking any of them, is it not fair enough to say so?
Supporters are calling for change because it's badly needed. We simply don't have the men to carry the sort of football they are being told to play - the physicality is more or less gone out of the Armagh team when you look at it. I would never say anybody was sh!te or anything like that
Quote from: Joxer on July 06, 2009, 05:52:58 PM
So what are the options then IF McDonnell goes?
What about the original successor - Rafferty?
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
on another note. I have always liked Monaghan and felt the 2 counties had a natural affintiy. However,the shit i had to take on the way back up the hill on saturday was a joke. "Say hello to the Queen" "Remember your passport on the way back" etc being shouted by louts who didnt even go to the game IN THEIR OWN COUNTY!!!
Every county has louts and unfortunately it reflects badly on the rest of us. The fact that these ones weren't even at the game says a lot.
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
I must say its a bit rich when Monaghan have won nothing of note in 20 odd years, and rode on our backs as "supporters" during our glory years. The county never takes a crowd to matches - even when they are played in Clones and rely on the Orchard to fund the Clones pubs during the summer. I realise this may be a generalisation but I will find it hard to cheer for Monaghan (as I would normally do) in the next round after this abuse.
Yes, Monaghan people were happy to support Armagh, as a neighbour who came through dark years and landed the big one. But to say Monaghan never take a crowd to matches is total crap - they're one of the best supported teams in the country, despite having one of the smallest populations.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-devotion-to-boys-in-blue-confirmed-by-loyalty-trends-1710085.html
The attendance yesterday was 12,500. I'm going to be generous and say 7,000 of that were Monaghan supporters. Some support alright in your backyard! Maybe it was the admission fees, a reduced €10, that put your droves of fans off?
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 04:23:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
I must say its a bit rich when Monaghan have won nothing of note in 20 odd years, and rode on our backs as "supporters" during our glory years. The county never takes a crowd to matches - even when they are played in Clones and rely on the Orchard to fund the Clones pubs during the summer. I realise this may be a generalisation but I will find it hard to cheer for Monaghan (as I would normally do) in the next round after this abuse.
Yes, Monaghan people were happy to support Armagh, as a neighbour who came through dark years and landed the big one. But to say Monaghan never take a crowd to matches is total crap - they're one of the best supported teams in the country, despite having one of the smallest populations.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-devotion-to-boys-in-blue-confirmed-by-loyalty-trends-1710085.html
sorry, but thats just not true. Financial figures in league games are what your quoting here. This could be down to more people paying extra for seating rather than terracing than the actual crowd. Every time we play Monaghan its pretty much the same with Armagh. We bring the majority of the fans, Monaghan dont - in Clones.
Armagh have a bigger population, so i'd expect them to have a bigger crowd. And I wasn't comparing Monaghan support to Armagh's - I fully acknowledge that Armagh are well supported, I was just countering your statement that "Monaghan never takes a crowd to matches" which is clearly bull. In the league final for example, Monaghan had more support than Cork, Kerry and Derry combined (not that that's a massive achievement in itself!). Monaghan are known as one of the best supported counties in the country.
And yes, well done to the Armagh supporters for travelling "an hour and more to the game". Although it's worth noting that some Armagh fans would actually be closer to Clones than some Monaghan fans.
That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read on this Board. Complaining about the proximity of your own home ground! Sure maybe you should have used Omagh or somewhere like that for your home advantage?
Furthermore, Clones is the furthest possible town in Monaghan from Armagh!
Quote from: slievegullion on July 06, 2009, 06:45:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
on another note. I have always liked Monaghan and felt the 2 counties had a natural affintiy. However,the shit i had to take on the way back up the hill on saturday was a joke. "Say hello to the Queen" "Remember your passport on the way back" etc being shouted by louts who didnt even go to the game IN THEIR OWN COUNTY!!!
Every county has louts and unfortunately it reflects badly on the rest of us. The fact that these ones weren't even at the game says a lot.
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
I must say its a bit rich when Monaghan have won nothing of note in 20 odd years, and rode on our backs as "supporters" during our glory years. The county never takes a crowd to matches - even when they are played in Clones and rely on the Orchard to fund the Clones pubs during the summer. I realise this may be a generalisation but I will find it hard to cheer for Monaghan (as I would normally do) in the next round after this abuse.
Yes, Monaghan people were happy to support Armagh, as a neighbour who came through dark years and landed the big one. But to say Monaghan never take a crowd to matches is total crap - they're one of the best supported teams in the country, despite having one of the smallest populations.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-devotion-to-boys-in-blue-confirmed-by-loyalty-trends-1710085.html
The attendance yesterday was 12,500. I'm going to be generous and say 7,000 of that were Monaghan supporters. Some support alright in your backyard! Maybe it was the admission fees, a reduced €10, that put your droves of fans off?
And what was the attendance at the other qualifiers?
Quote from: slievegullion on July 06, 2009, 06:45:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 04:23:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
I must say its a bit rich when Monaghan have won nothing of note in 20 odd years, and rode on our backs as "supporters" during our glory years. The county never takes a crowd to matches - even when they are played in Clones and rely on the Orchard to fund the Clones pubs during the summer. I realise this may be a generalisation but I will find it hard to cheer for Monaghan (as I would normally do) in the next round after this abuse.
Yes, Monaghan people were happy to support Armagh, as a neighbour who came through dark years and landed the big one. But to say Monaghan never take a crowd to matches is total crap - they're one of the best supported teams in the country, despite having one of the smallest populations.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-devotion-to-boys-in-blue-confirmed-by-loyalty-trends-1710085.html
sorry, but thats just not true. Financial figures in league games are what your quoting here. This could be down to more people paying extra for seating rather than terracing than the actual crowd. Every time we play Monaghan its pretty much the same with Armagh. We bring the majority of the fans, Monaghan dont - in Clones.
Armagh have a bigger population, so i'd expect them to have a bigger crowd. And I wasn't comparing Monaghan support to Armagh's - I fully acknowledge that Armagh are well supported, I was just countering your statement that "Monaghan never takes a crowd to matches" which is clearly bull. In the league final for example, Monaghan had more support than Cork, Kerry and Derry combined (not that that's a massive achievement in itself!). Monaghan are known as one of the best supported counties in the country.
And yes, well done to the Armagh supporters for travelling "an hour and more to the game". Although it's worth noting that some Armagh fans would actually be closer to Clones than some Monaghan fans.
That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read on this Board. Complaining about the proximity of your own home ground! Sure maybe you should have used Omagh or somewhere like that for your home advantage?
Furthermore, Clones is the furthest possible town in Monaghan from Armagh!
I wasn't. Maybe you should read it again. An Armagh poster made a big deal about some Armagh people having to travel "an hour or more to the game". My point was that some Armagh fans are actually closer to Clones than the likes of people coming from Carrickmacross. But I wasn't complaining about anything.
Quote from: JMohan on July 06, 2009, 06:11:06 PM
Quote from: Joxer on July 06, 2009, 05:52:58 PM
So what are the options then IF McDonnell goes?
What about the original successor - Rafferty?
He ruled himself out due to wanting to win a Junior Armagh Championship with Tullysaran ;D
What Armagh poster were you quoting who was complaining about ahving to travel 'an hour and a half'?
Quote from: slievegullion on July 06, 2009, 07:31:57 PM
What Armagh poster were you quoting who was complaining about ahving to travel 'an hour and a half'?
See eireogatron - reply #597
And there's no mention of "an hour and a half". You really don't read these posts.
Just going on the situation of the Armagh manager. The worst thing that happened Armagh last year was winning the Ulster Championship. Armagh County board made the mistakes two years ago when they appointed PMD. It's gonna sound bias coming from an Ogs man but the was only one man who should have got the job, Paul Grimley. The way the appointment was made was underhand and clearly bowing to the sponsor. There was no progress, in fact, we took backward steps. Someone asked me on another thread after the Tyrone match would I sack the manager mid season and I said no, that I'd wait til the end of the seaon. It only took one more match for that to happen. Also, some questions have to be asked about some of those running around with the Armagh team. To tell the truth it's a bit of a joke. Don't know if there's any truth in the rumour that there was an argument in the changing rooms after the game but it wouldn't surpise me. I'm not having a personal attack on PMD, it's the muppets on the county board who are to blame for the whole fiasco
I have found it very hard to put together the words that would best describe how a I feel after the game at the weekend and not just the performance but the general attitude of the whole thing. In the build up to it I said I feared for Armagh as I felt that they were on a hiding to nothing as this team is nowhere near where it should be nor where PMD wants it to be. Looking at it with a fairly dispassionate eye now that I am away from the direct scene I feel that there are issues the whole way through, from the Board down to the players and some of the stories that have been relayed to me now make lots of sense.
From a Board point of view I sensed that there was a disorganisation in the way things have been run. I was informed by one player that things are not well organised in the background and as a result there is not the same desire to go that extra yard. Maybe the funds are not there or maybe they are but the strings have been tightened on the purse but there is definitely not the same available to players as there was previously.
Secondly, I would question some of the selection decisions and substitutions. To play a HF line with only one HF actually playing there is ludicrous. I felt sorry for Brian Mallon at times as he was a single player against 2-3 defenders at times as rightly the Monaghan half backs simply marked the space and left the likes of Vernon and MOR to go back. Certain players that started are not county standard at the minute, fitness, age, form, meant that they should not have been in an asses roar of playing. If Lavery was to be taken off why was David McKenna at 6'5 not put on to contest midfield? The general fitness of the players needs to be addressed. they were very sluggish and easily put off the ball.
There may have been a row in the camp after the game but I think it is merely a manifestation of issues that have been running under the surface for some time now. I think that the players need to look at themselves and ask the question was this good enough? Did each individual put in the maximum effort to bring Armagh into the next round?
Positives from the season, McEvoy, Donaghy, Lavery(room to improve), Barnsey, Paul Duffy coming back into the reckoning(he may not have played well the other day but he is a fine player on his game and will be stronger next year after a full year playing). A lot of negatives on the playing side in regards to style of play(or lack of), general ability to perform the basics correctly and also the lack of belief that there is among the players in the management. it is not a time for rushed decisions on PMD's behalf but he needs to look at the whole package(players, management back up, fitness and facilities) and if he feels that they are correct I think the raw material is there, with some additions, that there can be a serious challenge in 3-4 years but it will not be before then.
It takes about 36 apples to create one gallon of apple cider.
I take what people are saying about not wanting to rubbish players and managers on a forum and getting into personal attacks, however, I do feel that if someone is putting on a county jersey and someone else is a managing representative of that county then I do think they have to be open to constructive analysis as there are many more people willing to take on those roles if they don't want them.
Firstly I have to say that I was not expecting alot from Armagh this year. At the start of the year I think many Armagh fans were realistic enough to concede that this was a team that needed blooded. Perhaps a year or two of Championship experience and then make a realistic push for silverware. This was the year that a good management set up was vital for Armagh. What should have been instilled was the sense of what it means to be a team, bonding, pride and good instruction as to what it will take to define a new team with new ideas. What I was not expecting and I think this is where alot of Armagh fans feel so agrieved about was a new team brought on to fill an old regimes shoes. I saw a team on Saturday, that looked segregated in every department, there was no connection between them and the thing was completely disjointed. It looked as if the players knew this also. It is a myth that Armagh has no good footballers, I would just expect that a good management side would at least have a look for them, and to be honest, if I was a young footballer and had an All-Ireland under 21 medal in my pocket and I was on the bench for Aidan and Martin O Rourke, I would just say to myself what is the point? Thats no disrespect to the O Rourkes as its not their fault that their played but please I couldn't watch MOR at club football never mind on a county panel.
Secondly, its about time that not only the County management side was looked at, but there should also be serious consideration as to who is on the Armagh County board. I feel that county politics has for too long been allowed to have a bearing on what happens to our County football. People aren't going to like this said, but you would think that South Armagh was Armagh in its enirety, and thats been too long the case. From club football right up to the refereeing system the whole setup stinks and it hasn't gone unnoticed. Our clubs need to take a long hard look at the representatives their sending to board level, I know for sure that there are far too many businessmen and not enough Gaels taking responsibility and its time we all had a say on this. As a GAA member, I have never been so disheartened in my life and I'll be only too surprised if anything changes.
QuotePeople aren't going to like this said, but you would think that South Armagh was Armagh in its enirety, and thats been too long the case. From club football right up to the refereeing system the whole setup stinks and it hasn't gone unnoticed.
Can you give me reasons or examples of why you believe this to be the case?
Oisin letting rip into the Armagh management big time to-day in the Newry Democrat to-day and the County Board for appointing them.
Its funny how Big Joe escaped any form of criticism for disasters like the hammering by Monaghan in 2003 and one of the worst results in Armagh's history, the quarter final defeat to Fermanagh in 2004, both of which were far worse imo than last Saturday night.
Pints, who won between Silverbridge and Tir Na Nog last week? ;D
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 09:08:13 AM
Its funny how Big Joe escaped any form of criticism for disasters like the hammering by Monaghan in 2003 and one of the worst results in Armagh's history, the quarter final defeat to Fermanagh in 2004, both of which were far worse imo than last Saturday night.
Do you honestly think so?
I thought Saturday night was worse, especially the lack of direction & sense of purpose in almost every attack
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 09:08:13 AM
Oisin letting rip into the Armagh management big time to-day in the Newry Democrat to-day and the County Board for appointing them.
Its funny how Big Joe escaped any form of criticism for disasters like the hammering by Monaghan in 2003 and one of the worst results in Armagh's history, the quarter final defeat to Fermanagh in 2004, both of which were far worse imo than last Saturday night.
Pints, who won between Silverbridge and Tir Na Nog last week? ;D
You could put the hammering by Monaghan down to complacency and the 1/4 defeat to fermanagh down to complacency and the 5hr weights session the team did 2 days before. Complacency and tiredness/dead legs can be addressed and fixed, lessons learned for the future, remember after the 2003 hammering we went onto the AIF.
What would you put Saturday down to ? Can it be fixed as readily ? Is the structures/management/personnel in place to achieve anything (and im not talking about players)?
I say its not.
Time will tell, perhaps if he stays on and is allowed to stay on Mc Donnell will lead us to the AI next year.
The defeats to Monaghan in 2003 and Fermanagh in 2004 were at least equally as bad as last Saturday night, and the management of the time were equally culpable. Any manager worth his salt will have his team on their guard against complacency. If there was no desire or fight last Saturday night, how the hell did we push the game into extra time and lose only by a point to arguably the most aggressive and driven team in Ireland currently?
Some people would be better off engaging their brains before posting crap here
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 09:37:44 AM
Time will tell, perhaps if he stays on and is allowed to stay on Mc Donnell will lead us to the AI next year.
The defeats to Monaghan in 2003 and Fermanagh in 2004 were at least equally as bad as last Saturday night, and the management of the time were equally culpable. Any manager worth his salt will have his team on their guard against complacency. If there was no desire or fight last Saturday night, how the hell did we push the game into extra time and lose only by a point to arguably the most aggressive and driven team in Ireland currently?
Some people would be better off engaging their brains before posting crap here
Dont talk sh1te Tony
Are buying into this media bullsh1t as well about Monaghan?
The most driven team in Ireland - you must be having a f**king laugh. More driven than Tyrone? Dublin? Cork?
No disrespect to Monaghan, but any true Monaghna supporter will tell you they werent good on Saturday night.
They amount of wides they had was unreal & they were missing their top scorer, a man who usually scores a high percentage of their entire total
Catch a grip of yourself man?
... Monaghan were woefull on Saturday night Tony! That's how it went to extra time! (That and a dodgy free - although Clarke was owed a few!)
Both teams were technically poor, due to the predominance of defences which is sadly the way of Gaelic Football to-day, but ffs do not tell me that Monaghan were not highly aggressive or driven throughout. A blind man on a galloping horse could see this. Therefore if Monaghan were driven, then Armagh were equally so, to take the game to extra time where Monaghan's overall superior strength told. This rubbishes the arguments that Armagh were not motivated.
I still say the defeat to Fermanagh (and effectively throwing away that year's All Ireland) in 2004 was far worse than Saturday night given, the calibre of the players Armagh had in 2004 in comparison, the quality of the opposition (who did nothing before this and precious little since), yet the then Armagh manager encountered not one word of criticism. He also escaped relatively lightly following the defeats to both Donegal and Derry in 2007 and both these teams were beaten by Monaghan last year.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 10:01:26 AM
Both teams were technically poor, due to the predominance of defences which is sadly the way of Gaelic Football to-day, but ffs do not tell me that Monaghan were not highly aggressive or driven throughout. A blind man on a galloping horse could see this. Therefore if Monaghan were driven, then Armagh were equally so, to take the game to extra time where Monaghan's overall superior strength told. This rubbishes the arguments that Armagh were not motivated.
Driven my bollox, it was like a league game in February with a bit of dirt thrown in
Nothing good about Saturday nights game & I would say the Monaghan one's would say something similar except that they got the result
It wouldnt have taken much to win that game on Saturday night
I have read many comments on this thread about Armagh's so called lack of motivation. Now the game on Saturday night was poor and many other things besides, but neither side was lacking in motivation, and certainly not Monaghan, therefore for Armagh to take this game to extra time and only lose by a point rubbishes the argument that they were not properly motivated.
Anyone going to Clones last Saturday night expecting anything other than the dogfight that was thrown up really hasn't a clue.
You said Monaghan were the most driven team in Ireland on Saturday night
Bullsh1t
Quote from: full back on July 07, 2009, 10:12:40 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 10:01:26 AM
Both teams were technically poor, due to the predominance of defences which is sadly the way of Gaelic Football to-day, but ffs do not tell me that Monaghan were not highly aggressive or driven throughout. A blind man on a galloping horse could see this. Therefore if Monaghan were driven, then Armagh were equally so, to take the game to extra time where Monaghan's overall superior strength told. This rubbishes the arguments that Armagh were not motivated.
Driven my bollox, it was like a league game in February with a bit of dirt thrown in
Nothing good about Saturday nights game & I would say the Monaghan one's would say something similar except that they got the result
It wouldnt have taken much to win that game on Saturday night
I concur, a technically inept performance by both teams. Some good football in places though it has to be said, e.g. the first 15 mins of both halves for Monaghan. Armagh owned the ball for the majority of the first half and had that of been the Armagh team of a few years ago the game would have been over, perhaps not on the scoreboard but mentally they'd have pulled away. It's right though, by the end of normal time it was like no team wanted it. Jaysus you'd think there was nothing at stake and we were both gonna get another bite of the cherry/apple! Not too many folk in Monaghan would be happy with the performance but as Damien Cassidy says, who cares, we're not in the business of entertaining! ::)
I certainly got my value for money out of it and I'm delighted I didn't watch it on TV as the atmosphere would most definitely have been lost.. I watched it again last night and it was poor technically. There's was a few raised fists/elbows from both parties and an atroicous free count but i have to say, it wasn't the worst I've seen!
My contention is that regardless of shortcomings in practically all other departments both teams were highly motivated and wanted to win on Saturday night, despite what some gobshites here are saying.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 10:01:26 AM
I still say the defeat to Fermanagh (and effectively throwing away that year's All Ireland) in 2004 was far worse than Saturday night given, the calibre of the players Armagh had in 2004 in comparison, the quality of the opposition (who did nothing before this and precious little since), yet the then Armagh manager encountered not one word of criticism. He also escaped relatively lightly following the defeats to both Donegal and Derry in 2007 and both these teams were beaten by Monaghan last year.
That might be because JK had an all-ireland behind him and therefore could walk on water for a few years at least. Peter McDonnell will not be and should not be granted that same leverage with the total ineptitude shown on Saturday.
Can you seriously defend throwing on Enda McNulty when you are chasing a game ?
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 10:38:20 AM
My contention is that regardless of shortcomings in practically all other departments both teams were highly motivated and wanted to win on Saturday night, despite what some gobshites here are saying.
Id hate to see them demotivated then.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 10:38:20 AM
My contention is that regardless of shortcomings in practically all other departments both teams were highly motivated and wanted to win on Saturday night, despite what some gobshites here are saying.
Everyone is gobsh1tes apart from you ::)
The most driven team in Ireland :D
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 06:57:11 PM
Quote from: slievegullion on July 06, 2009, 06:45:55 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 04:35:38 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 04:23:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 06, 2009, 03:24:32 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 06, 2009, 01:13:43 PM
I must say its a bit rich when Monaghan have won nothing of note in 20 odd years, and rode on our backs as "supporters" during our glory years. The county never takes a crowd to matches - even when they are played in Clones and rely on the Orchard to fund the Clones pubs during the summer. I realise this may be a generalisation but I will find it hard to cheer for Monaghan (as I would normally do) in the next round after this abuse.
Yes, Monaghan people were happy to support Armagh, as a neighbour who came through dark years and landed the big one. But to say Monaghan never take a crowd to matches is total crap - they're one of the best supported teams in the country, despite having one of the smallest populations.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-football/fans-devotion-to-boys-in-blue-confirmed-by-loyalty-trends-1710085.html
sorry, but thats just not true. Financial figures in league games are what your quoting here. This could be down to more people paying extra for seating rather than terracing than the actual crowd. Every time we play Monaghan its pretty much the same with Armagh. We bring the majority of the fans, Monaghan dont - in Clones.
Armagh have a bigger population, so i'd expect them to have a bigger crowd. And I wasn't comparing Monaghan support to Armagh's - I fully acknowledge that Armagh are well supported, I was just countering your statement that "Monaghan never takes a crowd to matches" which is clearly bull. In the league final for example, Monaghan had more support than Cork, Kerry and Derry combined (not that that's a massive achievement in itself!). Monaghan are known as one of the best supported counties in the country.
And yes, well done to the Armagh supporters for travelling "an hour and more to the game". Although it's worth noting that some Armagh fans would actually be closer to Clones than some Monaghan fans.
That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have ever read on this Board. Complaining about the proximity of your own home ground! Sure maybe you should have used Omagh or somewhere like that for your home advantage?
Furthermore, Clones is the furthest possible town in Monaghan from Armagh!
I wasn't. Maybe you should read it again. An Armagh poster made a big deal about some Armagh people having to travel "an hour or more to the game". My point was that some Armagh fans are actually closer to Clones than the likes of people coming from Carrickmacross. But I wasn't complaining about anything.
hold on a wee tick here!! I didnt make a "big deal" about travelling an hour or more. The "big deal" I was making was that the mouths from Monaghan who were giving out watched the match in a pub beside their home ground!!
7000 Moanaghan fans my hole by the way.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 09:37:44 AM
Time will tell, perhaps if he stays on and is allowed to stay on Mc Donnell will lead us to the AI next year.
The defeats to Monaghan in 2003 and Fermanagh in 2004 were at least equally as bad as last Saturday night, and the management of the time were equally culpable. Any manager worth his salt will have his team on their guard against complacency. If there was no desire or fight last Saturday night, how the hell did we push the game into extra time and lose only by a point to arguably the most aggressive and driven team in Ireland currently?
Some people would be better off engaging their brains before posting crap here
the most aggressive and driven team in Ireland?? Are you having a giraffe??? Monaghan are not a good side and you're fooling yourself if you believe otherwise. As for the "drive" displayed on Saturday, catch a grip!! Both teams were brutal, Armagh sidling about the defence with the ball handpassing backwards etc with NO drive or purpose. Even the tackling was substandard and Monaghan were as bad. Drive, PAH!
I think you would be best heeding the advice you dished out in the last sentence of your post.
Quote from: eireogatron on July 07, 2009, 11:27:33 AM
hold on a wee tick here!! I didnt make a "big deal" about travelling an hour or more. The "big deal" I was making was that the mouths from Monaghan who were giving out watched the match in a pub beside their home ground!!
Okay, you didn't make a big deal - but you felt the need to mention it. I was pointing this out for the other poster who started posting crap without having read the earlier posts on the thread.
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 07, 2009, 11:35:08 AM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 07, 2009, 11:27:33 AM
hold on a wee tick here!! I didnt make a "big deal" about travelling an hour or more. The "big deal" I was making was that the mouths from Monaghan who were giving out watched the match in a pub beside their home ground!!
Okay, you didn't make a big deal - but you felt the need to mention it. I was pointing this out for the other poster who started posting crap without having read the earlier posts on the thread.
sound.
PS theres more drive and aggression on this forum than there was in the entire 90 odd minutes at Clones on Saturday T Fearon.
I think it is fair to say that Monaghan are tenacious battlers, whatever else you might say about them. Despite their midfield domination in the second half Armagh resisted them, bringing things to extra time. Armagh weren't so much lacking motivation as imagination, their work was ineffective because of poor passing, bad tacking and the like.
Will Armagh Enter the Tommy Murphy Cup?
Neither Armagh nor Monaghan currently are great teams, as a spectacle Saturday was brutal, but both teams whatever else they were lacking were not lacking in motivation or hunger. This is the simple point I have been trying to make along with the fact that Mc Donell's predecessor received no criticism whatsover for presiding over worse defeats as Armagh manager (with far better players at his disposal) than last Saturday's.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 12:49:52 PM
Neither Armagh nor Monaghan currently are great teams, as a spectacle Saturday was brutal, but both teams whatever else they were lacking were not lacking in motivation or hunger. This is the simple point I have been trying to make along with the fact that Mc Donell's predecessor received no criticism whatsover for presiding over worse defeats as Armagh manager (with far better players at his disposal) than last Saturday's.
It absolute nonsense to suggest that Joe received no criticism for the defeats he suffered. Have a look back through some of the thread on here. The difference is that there were a lot more good days than bad under Kernan. That just hasn't been the case for Peter McDonnell.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 12:49:52 PM
Neither Armagh nor Monaghan currently are great teams, as a spectacle Saturday was brutal, but both teams whatever else they were lacking were not lacking in motivation or hunger. This is the simple point I have been trying to make along with the fact that Mc Donell's predecessor received no criticism whatsover for presiding over worse defeats as Armagh manager (with far better players at his disposal) than last Saturday's.
The simple point you were making is that Monaghan were the
most driven team in IrelandJK got a lot af criticism following his defeats, perhaps your head was in the sand.
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 07, 2009, 12:20:52 AM
QuotePeople aren't going to like this said, but you would think that South Armagh was Armagh in its enirety, and thats been too long the case. From club football right up to the refereeing system the whole setup stinks and it hasn't gone unnoticed.
Can you give me reasons or examples of why you believe this to be the case?
This is not a personal vendetta against South Armagh Pints as I believe some of the best Gaels in the county are there. However I will say and I've been involved in Armagh football a long time that there is political dominance or whatever we'll call it, in the county board for South Armagh. I said it so I'll stick by it and I'm not the only one saying it. You've asked for examples and I'll give them to you...
I have watched Club football over the years producing many talented footballers from throughout the county. I have seen individual performances warranting at least trials atcounty level and being baffled when those players from mid and North Armagh were overlooked time and again. This applies right from underage level up and I'm not mentioning any names but there are many examples of this happening. Standing watching county matches with certain players played time and again when their not at the game and never taken off, with other young fellas dying for the opportunity to put on their county jersey and never given a chance. It truly sickens me and Saturday was just the icing on the cake.
Also, look at Tyrone's progress since they won the All-Ireland, it is well documented that there is county selectors at nearly all club games, and look at Omagh, its a great ground. they have built on their progress by not concentrating on inner politics although I know there are some in every county. Look at Armagh. We are a laughing stock for so many reasons. We never built on our success either at senior level and under 21 level by using it to galvanise all clubs participation. Instead of seriously looking at a formidable county ground in Armagh at the Athletic Grounds, the county board was just happy enough to place all matches in Crossmaglen. Again I will say, I'm not blaming ordinary Gaels or clubs from South Armagh, but I am saying that if the county board thinks that people are blind to the bias then they can think again. The selection of Peter McDonnell over Paul Grimley was baffling at the time and is even more so now - or maybe not!!!
There is no doubt that Fermanagh 2004 was the worst shortfall in Armagh performance in recent years. But the following year we won the League, the Ulster Championship and matched the AI champions. In 2007 we played reasonably well against Donegal but got caught by a sucker punch goal, and the Derry performance was unacceptable. However Joe did receive a lot of criticism and he ceased to be manager after that. You cannot reasonbly say that he received no criticism whatsoever.
The only good thing about the present situation is that I don't think that either the management or the team are happy with it, perhaps a determination to improve can come from that.
Quote from: Aoise on July 07, 2009, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 07, 2009, 12:20:52 AM
QuotePeople aren't going to like this said, but you would think that South Armagh was Armagh in its enirety, and thats been too long the case. From club football right up to the refereeing system the whole setup stinks and it hasn't gone unnoticed.
Can you give me reasons or examples of why you believe this to be the case?
The selection of Peter McDonnell over Paul Grimley was baffling at the time and is even more so now - or maybe not!!!
It was purely a business decision. ;)
I don't find the decision to select Mc Donnell ahead of Grimley particularly baffling at all. M Donnell had success with the U21s and surely it was anticipated that he was largely going to work with the same players at senior level. Also what was the story between Joe and Grimley and the fallout,and did this have an impact on the final decision?
There was a falling out between Grimley and Kernan towards the end of their rein together (because Grimley's opinions were being ignored by Kernan). When it came down to McDonnell's appointment the story I heard was that Joe was on the committee to appoint the new manager and after the clubs voted for Grimley to get the job Joe blackballed the decision. County board got cold feet and bowed to Joe and McDonnell got the job.
Grimley had a hell of a back room team lined up with Geezer, Tony Scullion and James McCartan on board and had got his financial backing independently as the existing sponsor was pulling the sponsorship deal if Grimley got the job.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 03:18:43 PM
I don't find the decision to select Mc Donnell ahead of Grimley particularly baffling at all. M Donnell had success with the U21s and surely it was anticipated that he was largely going to work with the same players at senior level. Also what was the story between Joe and Grimley and the fallout,and did this have an impact on the final decision?
Apparently it had a major impact; an example of the wishes of a few taking preference over the general good!
Well if thats the way the decision was reached is it any wonder its going pear shaped.
Manager should be appointed at the end of a fair process in which all applicants are tested on their abilities, experiences etc without bowing to the demands of sponsors etc. And given Joe's history with Grimley he certainly should have had no say in the appointment.
Take it as a fact Paul Grimley was a responsible for, (if not more) than Joe K for ARmagh winning the All Ireland. Look at his influence already with Kildare, who let me remind you were a bit of a laughing stock before the lads took them over. Look at them now... in with a shout for Leinster
I rest my case
Joe had his strengths as organiser, PR man and motivator but it was Paul Grimley who was the chief tactician and was the man the players turned to. I know a man who was speaking to one of our main players in the 99-05 era and asked him if he had a free choice of men to lead a team who would that be and he said without doubt it would be Paul Grimley. This player had played under a lot of the foremost coaches in Ulster throughout his playing career. He isn't from Mid Armagh so he hadn't that bias (which I don't believe was a major factor in the appointment of McDonnell).
Was Grimley helping JK in Cross as well?
Maguire 1, to back to an earlier point, yes Armagh does have a bigger population but half of them were out practising how to walk up a road last weekend and couldnt make it, despite the fact that they wont actually get to walk up the road after all lol!
Quote from: eireogatron on July 07, 2009, 05:01:37 PM
Maguire 1, to back to an earlier point, yes Armagh does have a bigger population but half of them were out practising how to walk up a road last weekend and couldnt make it, despite the fact that they wont actually get to ewalk up the road after all lol!
There was about 150 of them out practising - hardly a major dent in your support!
I get your point though. But with a population of approximately 160,000 and a Catholic majority (according to the 2001 census), Armagh has at least 80,000 Catholics. Monaghan has a population of approximately 55,000 (according to 2006 census) about 10% of whom are Protestant.
Quote from: Maguire01 on July 07, 2009, 05:15:59 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 07, 2009, 05:01:37 PM
Maguire 1, to back to an earlier point, yes Armagh does have a bigger population but half of them were out practising how to walk up a road last weekend and couldnt make it, despite the fact that they wont actually get to ewalk up the road after all lol!
There was about 150 of them out practising - hardly a major dent in your support!
I get your point though. But with a population of approximately 160,000 and a Catholic majority (according to the 2001 census), Armagh has at least 80,000 Catholics. Monaghan has a population of approximately 55,000 (according to 2006 census) about 10% of whom are Protestant.
i know i know i know!! judging by the way the summers gone so far in Armagh we probably will see them dandering past the Tir Na nOg club next week!
eirogatron, do you know my old mate, Con C?
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 05:23:10 PM
eirogatron, do you know my old mate, Con C?
monsieur Campbell? Indeed I do chief! He would know my da, Fergy Flem more though.
Quote from: Aoise on July 07, 2009, 01:11:41 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on July 07, 2009, 12:20:52 AM
QuotePeople aren't going to like this said, but you would think that South Armagh was Armagh in its enirety, and thats been too long the case. From club football right up to the refereeing system the whole setup stinks and it hasn't gone unnoticed.
Can you give me reasons or examples of why you believe this to be the case?
This is not a personal vendetta against South Armagh Pints as I believe some of the best Gaels in the county are there. However I will say and I've been involved in Armagh football a long time that there is political dominance or whatever we'll call it, in the county board for South Armagh. I said it so I'll stick by it and I'm not the only one saying it. You've asked for examples and I'll give them to you...
I have watched Club football over the years producing many talented footballers from throughout the county. I have seen individual performances warranting at least trials atcounty level and being baffled when those players from mid and North Armagh were overlooked time and again. This applies right from underage level up and I'm not mentioning any names but there are many examples of this happening. Standing watching county matches with certain players played time and again when their not at the game and never taken off, with other young fellas dying for the opportunity to put on their county jersey and never given a chance. It truly sickens me and Saturday was just the icing on the cake.
Also, look at Tyrone's progress since they won the All-Ireland, it is well documented that there is county selectors at nearly all club games, and look at Omagh, its a great ground. they have built on their progress by not concentrating on inner politics although I know there are some in every county. Look at Armagh. We are a laughing stock for so many reasons. We never built on our success either at senior level and under 21 level by using it to galvanise all clubs participation. Instead of seriously looking at a formidable county ground in Armagh at the Athletic Grounds, the county board was just happy enough to place all matches in Crossmaglen. Again I will say, I'm not blaming ordinary Gaels or clubs from South Armagh, but I am saying that if the county board thinks that people are blind to the bias then they can think again. The selection of Peter McDonnell over Paul Grimley was baffling at the time and is even more so now - or maybe not!!!
I agree with you on those critcisms Aoise but I don't believe there's a south armagh bias. Every club has their complaints about the county board, south armagh people feel there is a bias towards Cross, clubs without county players feel there's a bias towards clubs who have county players. Small clubs feel there's a bias towards big clubs etc.
As I say, I'd agree with you on those criticisms but I've never seen any evidence of bias towards south armagh.
Quote from: T Fearon on July 07, 2009, 09:08:13 AM
Oisin letting rip into the Armagh management big time to-day in the Newry Democrat to-day and the County Board for appointing them.
Its funny how Big Joe escaped any form of criticism for disasters like the hammering by Monaghan in 2003 and one of the worst results in Armagh's history, the quarter final defeat to Fermanagh in 2004, both of which were far worse imo than last Saturday night.
Pints, who won between Silverbridge and Tir Na Nog last week? ;D
I thought you'd know?
btw, where were you if you think JK escaped criticism?
QuoteMaguire 1, to back to an earlier point, yes Armagh does have a bigger population but half of them were out practising how to walk up a road last weekend and couldnt make it, despite the fact that they wont actually get to walk up the road after all lol
I know Paedar Toal left the panel but was there that many at the bullets?
eireogatron! I know your da and your uncles Finbarr (many's a goal I stuck past him) and Eamonn very well!
Benny Tierney in the Irish News to-day says all Armagh fans need a reality check, which is more or less what I've been saying myself this last few days ;)
Quote from: T Fearon on July 08, 2009, 09:10:35 AM
Benny Tierney in the Irish News to-day says all Armagh fans need a reality check, which is more or less what I've been saying myself this last few days ;)
???
No you didnt say that at all
can anyone post up bennys article
Quote from: T Fearon on July 08, 2009, 09:10:35 AM
eireogatron! I know your da and your uncles Finbarr (many's a goal I stuck past him) and Eamonn very well!
Benny Tierney in the Irish News to-day says all Armagh fans need a reality check, which is more or less what I've been saying myself this last few days ;)
nice one! Finbar a quare character alright. I still think Saturday was worse than Fermanagh lol! We are now officially the equal worst championship county in Ireland.
As fans of the county we have to realise the although the management has been inept this year, we arent good enough for the top table. I do think we are still at least top 8 material if we go back to basics though, and if we dont repeat the mistakes of Down and Derry with upcoming talent (some of which displayed in the minors on Saturday), we might yet see more days in the sun over the next decade.
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 08, 2009, 09:44:39 AM
can anyone post up bennys article
Disappointed Armagh fans need to take reality check
The Last Line
By Benny Tierney
08/07/2009
Two years ago, in Joe Kernan's last year at the helm, Armagh were narrowly beaten by Donegal in the first round of the Ulster Senior Football Championship, and then suffered a one-point defeat in the first round of the Qualifiers at the hands of Derry.
There wasn't really any outcry, as such, because people generally accepted that this was an ageing team in need of an overhaul and requiring rebuilding work in major positions.
Fast forward two years and a similar outcome against strong opposition in the Championship and there is an outpouring of scorn and delusion amongst the general Armagh fanbase to an incredible degree.
I, like everyone involved with Armagh, was utterly disenchanted with what was, at times, a dismal and disjointed performance from the Orchard county – and I am in no way trying to dilute the abject disappointment by offering feeble excuses.
However, after thinking about the scenario for the last two days, I think that, as Armagh supporters, we really do need to take a reality check.
I firmly believe that mistakes were made in team selection, however, it is in our forward department that we need to accept that we just do not possess the quality that we did five years ago. We went a full 70 minutes without scoring from play, and that initial score came from our half-back Aaron Kernan.
Aside from Ronan and Stevie, players of the calibre of McConville, Marsden, John Mac, Paddy McKeever and Barry O'Hagan have all retired, leaving a massive hole in the front six division, mainly because this was the best forward unit Armagh ever possessed.
The men who have replaced them are equally loyal and committed to their team – but let's face facts. Martin O'Rourke is a defensive forward, a ball winner, a tackler, but not really an out-and-out scorer.
Paul Duffy is essentially a wing-back and Charlie Vernon is a midfielder, which only leaves Brian Mallon, who incidentally had a good game against Monaghan, as the only other natural forward to assist Clarke and McDonnell.
Three natural forwards, in my opinion, is not enough to win county matches at this level and, ultimately, it was in this area when Armagh were dominating possession that a lack of creativity and ingenuity was sadly lacking.
I believe that Stefan Forker, Tony Kernan and Kevin O'Rourke, who are all forwards, should either start or be introduced earlier in order to have an impact on the game.
The game itself, as a spectacle, was dire to say the least, with neither team aspiring to any great levels, but probably the best team won on the night.
There seemed to be an absolute fear of losing amongst both teams, with the over-defensive tactics choking and draining any bit of life out of the game.
Neither team took risks and were more concerned with prevention rather than invention.
And whilst teams will study the Tyrone method of play and will try to mimic them, they are falling very short in their efforts.
Apart from Aaron Kernan, who is the exception to the rule, how many Monaghan or Armagh defenders did we see breaking through the middle to produce that moment of inspiration a la Davy Harte or Ryan McMenamin?
Regrettably, both teams possess the quality of player capable of achieving this – if only they would try.
So, congratulations goes to Monaghan, and to Banty, who must now wonder what he did in a previous life after his team received the toughest possible draw two weeks-in-a-row after being pulled out of the hat to face Derry again.
The draw for the Qualifiers has been particularly cruel on the Farneymen in the last four years as they are continually paired with stiff opposition. That said, they will once again get to duel with the Oak Leafers and possibly get the chance – metaphorically at least – to give the two-fingered salute to some RTE pundits who have been particularly harsh on them in the last few weeks.
As to who will referee the game this weekend, well, I sincerely hope he puts in a better performance than Longford's Derek Fahy.
This is by no means a slur on referees, whom I have enormous respect for, or sour grapes regarding last weekend's result, as he was equally poor for both sides, but when are the GAA men who make these high-powered decisions going to realise that big games should only be refereed by refs who can apply commonsense?
Eighty-seven frees, of which at least 30 were questionable, is a statistic which turned an already poor game, quality-wise, into a nightmare for anyone who made the journey to Clones last Saturday night. This referee also had three red cards overturned in last year's Championship which, for me, would signal some major warning signals. So what do we, as an Association do? We give him the biggest game of the Qualifiers, so far, in the hope that he will have improved. A case of logic out the window.
Off to Marbella for sun, sea and showboatingOn a lighter note, yours truly, along with numerous other has-beens from a bygone era, will be running our international gaelic football camp in Marbella next week, from July 13 to July 17.
If anybody holidaying in the area would like to pop along and sample a whole new experience called 'Gaelic in the Sun', feel free to come along.
All ages are catered for and for those budding starlets of the GAA who want to learn about the artistry and athleticism involved with goalkeeping, I shall be there to impart my significant wisdom.
Likewise, those of you who want to learn about defensive and midfield play, well, who better to learn from than Sean Og De Paor from Galway and Tyrone's Enda Kilpatrick?
And finally, those of you who want to learn about that fine attribute of fooling linesmen and referees and winning easy frees, Peter Canavan will also be in attendance.
If you are interested, contact 00353868250826 for further information.
Good article as ever from Benny and right on the money with the central point being that we had three natural forwards in the front six with natural forwards sitting on the bench, although out of the three he listed I would swap Henderson for TK. However, I feel that the majority of Armagh supporters have taken the reality check he suggests, we know that we don't have the talent that we had, but that doesn't mean that we don't try to get the best out of what we have and build towards the future.
he is right that a "reality check" of sorts is required in relation to expectation. However, as he says we are more concerned with the constant use of defenders in the forward line when we have forwards - young forwards - on the bench. How can we win games with 3 forwards? how do we blood the future if we wont use them? We may not have the big dawgs of a few years ago but that doesnt mean this eras forwards should be ignored.
Benny's sentiments echo my own.
However why has this lack of threat not been addressed either last year, and again this year?
Also on the issue of expectation
With McConville, Marsden etc we won a deserved all Ireland, without players of this quality does not mean that we should be happy with a four 4 point defeat to a Tyron team that never got started, and a defeat to Monaghan consecutively.
So lads, in terms of addressing our scoring problems, are there any suggestions out there (from your own club) that you feel should be on the panel? As a Harps man, I believe Peadar Toal & definetly Gareth Swift have the talent to contribute something in the forwards
the ghost of Peader Toal returns for the 7th year in a row......
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 08, 2009, 12:22:42 PM
So lads, in terms of addressing our scoring problems, are there any suggestions out there (from your own club) that you feel should be on the panel? As a Harps man, I believe Peadar Toal & definetly Gareth Swift have the talent to contribute something in the forwards
They are young yet but Frannie Hanratty and Jamie Clarke have the quality to step up from Cross. I think that they should be blended in with the squad from next year on.
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 08, 2009, 12:22:42 PM
So lads, in terms of addressing our scoring problems, are there any suggestions out there (from your own club) that you feel should be on the panel? As a Harps man, I believe Peadar Toal & definetly Gareth Swift have the talent to contribute something in the forwards
the clans have recently been struggling for a scoring threat so not from us IMO
should lads in cross like micky mcnamee and john murtagh not be given a chance. they come up with some big scores for cross...
i agree we need to move away from only having 3 scoring forwards out of six. I dont mind one ball winner/third midfielder but three is too much.
also the players need to recognise their strengths and weaknesses in my opinion. Its clear that some people can shoot and some obviously cant. If you know you are a weak shooter dont be trying to slice a shot off the outside of your boot from forty yards ffs. Maurice Fitsgerald would have struggled with it ::)
i think we all know who the weak shooters are...
Now i'm not saying if there is a perfect oportunity on dont take it but use some common sense.
Toal is a case of bringing a horse to water, while Jamie Clarke's exploits with the U-21s is bound to interest whoever the Armagh manager is.
In the Monaghan game we had two scores from play in the latter part of the first half that showed the way forward, the pass to AK from Stevie and the quickly taken free kick from Brian Mallon to Clark. Unfortunately we had none of this in the second half.
If Paul McGaughey, Sarsfields stays injury free he would be there or thereabouts next year. Natural half forward, not a defender in the half forward line.
Again, Carville from Portadown would do a job.
I have to say, the one bright light this season is the performance of the minor team. They seem to be a serious outfit. Out of a very strong Harps county winning minor side last year (of which they are virtually all still available) there is only one on the panel!
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 01:13:16 PM
If Paul McGaughey, Sarsfields stays injury free he would be there or thereabouts next year. Natural half forward, not a defender in the half forward line.
Again, Carville from Portadown would do a job.
Barnesy is the same type of player, only better, so he wouldnt be any better than we have
john murtagh not be given a chance.
Is that the same Johnny Murtagh who scored 1-10 for Tyrone v Kerry on Sunday in Gaelic Park, NYC?
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on July 08, 2009, 01:22:07 PM
john murtagh not be given a chance.
Is that the same Johnny Murtagh who scored 1-10 for Tyrone v Kerry on Sunday in Gaelic Park, NYC?
the same lad
Good player. Was he on the Armagh panel before? Definately worth another chance.
Quote from: 020304 Tir Eoghain on July 08, 2009, 01:22:07 PM
john murtagh not be given a chance.
Is that the same Johnny Murtagh who scored 1-10 for Tyrone v Kerry on Sunday in Gaelic Park, NYC?
He is flying fit coming off a season with cross - I would imagine the majority of lads in NYC aren't?
Great performance but surely can't be a measuring stick for a county call up?
I would much rather Jamie Clarke gets a chance.
Quote from: full back on July 08, 2009, 01:19:34 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 01:13:16 PM
If Paul McGaughey, Sarsfields stays injury free he would be there or thereabouts next year. Natural half forward, not a defender in the half forward line.
Again, Carville from Portadown would do a job.
Barnesy is the same type of player, only better, so he wouldnt be any better than we have
hes not better. and carville is the best free taker in the county as well.
In fairness none of the lads mentioned, individually or collectively, are hardly going to propel Armagh to another All Ireland win and none of the New Crossmaglen Kids on the block impressed me against Kilmacud in the AI Club Final.
We might have to wait a few years and hope that young Tasker and Mc Verry develop.
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: full back on July 08, 2009, 01:19:34 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 01:13:16 PM
If Paul McGaughey, Sarsfields stays injury free he would be there or thereabouts next year. Natural half forward, not a defender in the half forward line.
Again, Carville from Portadown would do a job.
Barnesy is the same type of player, only better, so he wouldnt be any better than we have
hes not better. and carville is the best free taker in the county as well.
I sincerely doubt that :-\
Quote from: T Fearon on July 08, 2009, 04:03:11 PM
In fairness none of the lads mentioned, individually or collectively, are hardly going to propel Armagh to another All Ireland win and none of the New Crossmaglen Kids on the block impressed me against Kilmacud in the AI Club Final.
We might have to wait a few years and hope that young Tasker and Mc Verry develop.
Jamie Clarke is a better prospect than those two in my opinion anyway.
We can't write boys off on one final now.
Murtagh and McNamee have many good days, but also some not so good ones. Cross do so well because usually when one player has an off day another takes up the baton, and they have several players able to do that, this years final being the exception. Jamie Clarke still has time to be great.
Tasker and McVerry may well come on, but by then we will have lost Ronan Clark, so no real net gain. We need to get the ball in to him while he is still playing.
That was probably the worst performance i've seen from an Armagh side since the Morrison/McCorry years. I've never seen such a level of apathy and lack of interest in the Armagh support at this game - people were so fed up with what they were seeing in front of them. The whole manner of the play was very depressing. No pattern of play, no teamwork, no leadership, no guile, little skill and minimum effort. It's really hard to see how the present management can stay on, or would want to, after that. There's very little for them to build on or to take out of that. They got very little right. Errors were made in the team selection and there was a lack of cohesion and organisation. By the end of the game it had reached the point where the management seemed to be throwing on subs in desperation and hope rather than in any calculated way to change things.
Peter McDonnell comes across as a decent man but i'm really disappointed in his inability to learn the lessons of last year. Okay we don't have the likes of McConville and Marsden any more in the forwards but that's no excuse for basically playing 2 men up front on their own and not blooding NATURAL forwards like Forker and Henderson and try to play the game the right way, rather than the dirge that has been served up over the past year. The negativity has spread through the team like cancer, e.g. midfielders getting on the ball and their first instinct is turn back towards their own goals rather than attack the opposition. Backs moving the ball sideways on backwards even. Men in attacking positions like Vernon and Tony Kernan, not knowing whether to pass or shoot. The players need to take a long hard look at themselves as well. How many of them can say they gave 100%? Their level of intensity had the look of fellas going through the motions and playing within themselves.
It's back to the drawing board. Whoever's in charge next year needs to have a clear template for how they want the team to play, and get those players back playing for the team again, and playing the game in the right spirit - i.e. going out to win, rather than avoid defeat. That at least would give the team and its management something to work towards. With the present set up the management and players are going nowhere.
Quote from: full back on July 08, 2009, 04:07:06 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: full back on July 08, 2009, 01:19:34 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 01:13:16 PM
If Paul McGaughey, Sarsfields stays injury free he would be there or thereabouts next year. Natural half forward, not a defender in the half forward line.
Again, Carville from Portadown would do a job.
Barnesy is the same type of player, only better, so he wouldnt be any better than we have
hes not better. and carville is the best free taker in the county as well.
I sincerely doubt that :-\
well thats up to you. the guy just doesnt miss, and his display in the bog of Davitt against Armagh with frees off the ground and out of the hand in a gale a while back was superb.
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 05:01:35 PM
Quote from: full back on July 08, 2009, 04:07:06 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: full back on July 08, 2009, 01:19:34 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 01:13:16 PM
If Paul McGaughey, Sarsfields stays injury free he would be there or thereabouts next year. Natural half forward, not a defender in the half forward line.
Again, Carville from Portadown would do a job.
Barnesy is the same type of player, only better, so he wouldnt be any better than we have
hes not better. and carville is the best free taker in the county as well.
I sincerely doubt that :-\
well thats up to you. the guy just doesnt miss, and his display in the bog of Davitt against Armagh with frees off the ground and out of the hand in a gale a while back was superb.
Im not doubting he is a decent player, but I dont think he is the best free-taker in the county
This is my first post on the game and Peter McDonnell. I def was expecting a more attacking line up and afterall we were promised this after last years defeat to Wexford and we got worse again (which i didn't think was possible). I believe that it could have been managed a whole lot better but at the same time i realise that we don't have the quality players we had a few years ago. The system we were good at was players dropping deep especially our half forward line and picking up breaking ball around the middle and then getting it in diagonally to Clarke and McDonnell then our half forward line supported these two, but our half forward line then would have been McKeever (in his prime), Marsden etc who could all score as well as put the work rate in. Now the quality is not there so that type of game should be scrapped and develop a way to suit the players that we have and play to their strengths.
It was noted that someone posted that there was only 9 guys went to the Hotel afterwards and that there was a row in the changing room at half time...if this was the case how could Peter McDonnell have the respect of the team for next season???
Quote from: illdecide on July 08, 2009, 05:15:15 PM
It was noted that someone posted that there was only 9 guys went to the Hotel afterwards and that there was a row in the changing room at half time
Can anybody shed any light on this?
Quote from: full back on July 08, 2009, 05:11:16 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 05:01:35 PM
Quote from: full back on July 08, 2009, 04:07:06 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: full back on July 08, 2009, 01:19:34 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 01:13:16 PM
If Paul McGaughey, Sarsfields stays injury free he would be there or thereabouts next year. Natural half forward, not a defender in the half forward line.
Again, Carville from Portadown would do a job.
Barnesy is the same type of player, only better, so he wouldnt be any better than we have
hes not better. and carville is the best free taker in the county as well.
I sincerely doubt that :-\
well thats up to you. the guy just doesnt miss, and his display in the bog of Davitt against Armagh with frees off the ground and out of the hand in a gale a while back was superb.
Im not doubting he is a decent player, but I dont think he is the best free-taker in the county
thats fair enough, thats why i said its up to you. everyone will have a different opinion on this mate. He wouldnt weaken the squad thats for sure.
Quote from: SidelineKick on July 08, 2009, 05:18:21 PM
Quote from: illdecide on July 08, 2009, 05:15:15 PM
It was noted that someone posted that there was only 9 guys went to the Hotel afterwards and that there was a row in the changing room at half time
Can anybody shed any light on this?
I was told from a fairly reliable source that only 8/9 went to the meal afterwards but heard nothing about a half-time row.
The wheels hadn't fallen off the wagon at half time, after a regrettably slow start Armagh were playing rightly in the second part of the first half and looked to be capable of winning. Perhaps there was a row at the interval between full time and extra time.
Paul Carville is certainly a good footballer and a fine free taker from the ground for a small lad. am i right in saying he goes missing from the tir na nOg team when training starts thus he prefers his soccer... i could well be wrong on that though.
Quote from: lurganblue on July 09, 2009, 09:57:36 AM
Paul Carville is certainly a good footballer and a fine free taker from the ground for a small lad. am i right in saying he goes missing from the tir na nOg team when training starts thus he prefers his soccer... i could well be wrong on that though.
Does he play for Linfield possibly?
Quote from: corn02 on July 09, 2009, 09:58:07 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on July 09, 2009, 09:57:36 AM
Paul Carville is certainly a good footballer and a fine free taker from the ground for a small lad. am i right in saying he goes missing from the tir na nOg team when training starts thus he prefers his soccer... i could well be wrong on that though.
Does he play for Linfield possibly?
glenavon i think
Quote from: lurganblue on July 09, 2009, 10:21:34 AM
Quote from: corn02 on July 09, 2009, 09:58:07 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on July 09, 2009, 09:57:36 AM
Paul Carville is certainly a good footballer and a fine free taker from the ground for a small lad. am i right in saying he goes missing from the tir na nOg team when training starts thus he prefers his soccer... i could well be wrong on that though.
Does he play for Linfield possibly?
glenavon i think
Paul Carvill plays for glenavon, would love to see him get a run out for the county. McAllister plays for linfield, if he wanted it he could make county team.
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on July 09, 2009, 10:39:56 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on July 09, 2009, 10:21:34 AM
Quote from: corn02 on July 09, 2009, 09:58:07 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on July 09, 2009, 09:57:36 AM
Paul Carville is certainly a good footballer and a fine free taker from the ground for a small lad. am i right in saying he goes missing from the tir na nOg team when training starts thus he prefers his soccer... i could well be wrong on that though.
Does he play for Linfield possibly?
glenavon i think
Paul Carvill plays for glenavon, would love to see him get a run out for the county. McAllister plays for linfield, if he wanted it he could make county team.
Got them mixed up alright.
Quote from: corn02 on July 09, 2009, 10:44:57 AM
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on July 09, 2009, 10:39:56 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on July 09, 2009, 10:21:34 AM
Quote from: corn02 on July 09, 2009, 09:58:07 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on July 09, 2009, 09:57:36 AM
Paul Carville is certainly a good footballer and a fine free taker from the ground for a small lad. am i right in saying he goes missing from the tir na nOg team when training starts thus he prefers his soccer... i could well be wrong on that though.
Does he play for Linfield possibly?
glenavon i think
Paul Carvill plays for glenavon, would love to see him get a run out for the county. McAllister plays for linfield, if he wanted it he could make county team.
Got them mixed up alright.
again mcAllister is a good footballer and would be worth a try if committed but does he not (like Paul) go missing for his club when the soccer season starts?
Both are contracted to their clubs & are sometimes not available. I don't think Mark has played for us this season or last, I maybe wrong on that though. PC plays when he can.
Quote from: Armamike on July 08, 2009, 04:28:20 PM
That was probably the worst performance i've seen from an Armagh side since the Morrison/McCorry years. I've never seen such a level of apathy and lack of interest in the Armagh support at this game - people were so fed up with what they were seeing in front of them. The whole manner of the play was very depressing. No pattern of play, no teamwork, no leadership, no guile, little skill and minimum effort. It's really hard to see how the present management can stay on, or would want to, after that. There's very little for them to build on or to take out of that. They got very little right. Errors were made in the team selection and there was a lack of cohesion and organisation. By the end of the game it had reached the point where the management seemed to be throwing on subs in desperation and hope rather than in any calculated way to change things.
Peter McDonnell comes across as a decent man but i'm really disappointed in his inability to learn the lessons of last year. Okay we don't have the likes of McConville and Marsden any more in the forwards but that's no excuse for basically playing 2 men up front on their own and not blooding NATURAL forwards like Forker and Henderson and try to play the game the right way, rather than the dirge that has been served up over the past year. The negativity has spread through the team like cancer, e.g. midfielders getting on the ball and their first instinct is turn back towards their own goals rather than attack the opposition. Backs moving the ball sideways on backwards even. Men in attacking positions like Vernon and Tony Kernan, not knowing whether to pass or shoot. The players need to take a long hard look at themselves as well. How many of them can say they gave 100%? Their level of intensity had the look of fellas going through the motions and playing within themselves.
It's back to the drawing board. Whoever's in charge next year needs to have a clear template for how they want the team to play, and get those players back playing for the team again, and playing the game in the right spirit - i.e. going out to win, rather than avoid defeat. That at least would give the team and its management something to work towards. With the present set up the management and players are going nowhere.
A case in point was the last "free" we got to take it to extra time. Charlie Vernon had the ball at the 45, Ronan Clarke made a run towards the Gerry Arthurs stand with two men trailing him (there are prostitutes who get less male attention than Ronan). Now in any other team that would be considered a dummy run as it opened a serious bit of grass for Charlie to run into but instead he kicked a pass to Clarke who was being tightly marked by two men running to the sideline. WTF!!!
The point is not to pick on Charlie but really that I get the impression that players aren't allowed to think on their feet, the ball must go into Clarke under ALL circumstances. Yes he's our main man, and the ball should be given to him whenever possible but some of the passing is untrue. If I were Clarke I would be having a long hard think about whether to come back between referees not giving him protection and the standard of service he gets he must be very frustrated.
Re The O Rourkes running the show, I was only relaying what was said to me (& let me stress this was from a v reliable source)
One thing I will say, is that the camp was definetly fragmented, to say that only 7/8 of the players turned up for the aftermatch meal would suggest so. We need strong management next year, to try and at least get a semblance of professionalism back. Personally i'd like to see someone like Peter Rafferty come in, someone who has a gr8 knowledge of up and coming talent.
Lastly, I don't think I have seen such anger from Armagh fans over saturdays performance, everyone I talk to his seething. I was prepared to give mc donnell a chance & i wanted to see him do well, I don't think he will survive this....
Short & long was last saturday was an embarassment :-\
I heard from a very reliable source (let me stress that) that there was a voodoo spell on the team and they couldn't break free from this strange magic.
I agree with the point about professionalism though. Whatever about peter McD in the management stakes, his back room team are very very poor. If he surrounded himself with more capable people then he'd have given himself a better chance imo.
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 09, 2009, 11:49:38 AM
Re The O Rourkes running the show, I was only relaying what was said to me (& let me stress this was from a v reliable source)
Perhaps the O Rourkes could have tried running the show ON THE PITCH.
there is an awful lot of talk on this about the O'Rourkes. there are 13 other player on the armagh team why debate about two players, who has over the last couple of years shown great dedication and commitment to armagh. catch a grip
Quote from: fan01 on July 09, 2009, 01:50:39 PM
there is an awful lot of talk on this about the O'Rourkes. there are 13 other player on the armagh team why debate about two players, who has over the last couple of years shown great dedication and commitment to armagh. catch a grip
There is only so much talk about the O Rourkes because the county in its entirety was baffled by their inclusion on the team in the first place never mind the last one not getting taken off till there was only five bloody minutes left. Everyones talking about it because most people could point to ordinary club players playing better football than they produced last Saturday. It creates anger and a load of confusion which ultimately leads to people guessing and saying something about it. I've held my tongue on this issue for a few years now thinking that someone at county management level would catch themselves on regarding team selection. I'm glad people have now finally said how they feel. I don't think its the people on this board that should "catch a grip" as you say, but the Armagh county board and management squad and if they can't do it collectively then time for a wipe down with a clean slate being implemented at all quarters!
Quote from: Harold Disgracey on July 09, 2009, 10:39:56 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on July 09, 2009, 10:21:34 AM
Quote from: corn02 on July 09, 2009, 09:58:07 AM
Quote from: lurganblue on July 09, 2009, 09:57:36 AM
Paul Carville is certainly a good footballer and a fine free taker from the ground for a small lad. am i right in saying he goes missing from the tir na nOg team when training starts thus he prefers his soccer... i could well be wrong on that though.
Does he play for Linfield possibly?
glenavon i think
Paul Carvill plays for glenavon, would love to see him get a run out for the county. McAllister plays for linfield, if he wanted it he could make county team.
I watched Tir na nog against the Clans a couple of years ago and this young lad (Carvill) gave one of the best individual performaces I've seen in a long time. I'd love to see him at county level as the natural skill is hanging out of him!
Quote from: Aoise on July 09, 2009, 03:33:32 PM
There is only so much talk about the O Rourkes because the county in its entirety was baffled by their inclusion on the team in the first place
::) ::)
FFS
Martin was well entitled to his place in the starting 15
Aidan picked up Woods, which in theory should have worked but it was just one of those days for him
You are on saying how someone had a good game a
few years ago & should be on the county panel, yet you are spouting about players who have proven the worth to the county in the past & they shouldnt be there....................
Quote from: Aoise on July 09, 2009, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: fan01 on July 09, 2009, 01:50:39 PM
there is an awful lot of talk on this about the O'Rourkes. there are 13 other player on the armagh team why debate about two players, who has over the last couple of years shown great dedication and commitment to armagh. catch a grip
There is only so much talk about the O Rourkes because the county in its entirety was baffled by their inclusion on the team in the first place never mind the last one not getting taken off till there was only five bloody minutes left. Everyones talking about it because most people could point to ordinary club players playing better football than they produced last Saturday. It creates anger and a load of confusion which ultimately leads to people guessing and saying something about it. I've held my tongue on this issue for a few years now thinking that someone at county management level would catch themselves on regarding team selection. I'm glad people have now finally said how they feel. I don't think its the people on this board that should "catch a grip" as you say, but the Armagh county board and management squad and if they can't do it collectively then time for a wipe down with a clean slate being implemented at all quarters!
What a load of bollocks. Get off your high horse there sonny.
So the whole county were "baffled" by Martin's inclusion were they?
Quote from: Aoise on July 09, 2009, 03:33:32 PM
There is only so much talk about the O Rourkes because the county in its entirety was baffled by their inclusion on the team in the first place never mind the last one not getting taken off till there was only five bloody minutes left. Everyones talking about it because most people could point to ordinary club players playing better football than they produced last Saturday. It creates anger and a load of confusion which ultimately leads to people guessing and saying something about it. I've held my tongue on this issue for a few years now thinking that someone at county management level would catch themselves on regarding team selection. I'm glad people have now finally said how they feel. I don't think its the people on this board that should "catch a grip" as you say, but the Armagh county board and management squad and if they can't do it collectively then time for a wipe down with a clean slate being implemented at all quarters!
Well said there Aoise. I was one of the few that actually called a spade a spade on the Orchard County site throughout the year and club mates like Corn02 standing up for them. I got slated regularly on that site and now there is only the Dromintee posters left (like Corn02) to try and defend the indefensible. The two O'Rourkes are cat. Full stop. AOR was so bad it was embarrassing. A joke. And to stay on for (what was it) 45 minutes? was even worse. First bad decision was playing Aidan; the second was leaving him on for 45 minutes.
In terms of Martin - apparently he was badly injured (according to Corn02). So WTF was he picked? and then to pick him and leave him in the corner for 15 minutes scratching is hole. Did you ever see the effort of a point in the first half - :o :o :o. And then to run out the field laughing - some commitment to the jersey that!
Quote from: DooReg on July 09, 2009, 04:19:01 PM
Quote from: Aoise on July 09, 2009, 03:33:32 PM
There is only so much talk about the O Rourkes because the county in its entirety was baffled by their inclusion on the team in the first place never mind the last one not getting taken off till there was only five bloody minutes left. Everyones talking about it because most people could point to ordinary club players playing better football than they produced last Saturday. It creates anger and a load of confusion which ultimately leads to people guessing and saying something about it. I've held my tongue on this issue for a few years now thinking that someone at county management level would catch themselves on regarding team selection. I'm glad people have now finally said how they feel. I don't think its the people on this board that should "catch a grip" as you say, but the Armagh county board and management squad and if they can't do it collectively then time for a wipe down with a clean slate being implemented at all quarters!
Well said there Aoise. I was one of the few that actually called a spade a spade on the Orchard County site throughout the year and club mates like Corn02 standing up for them. I got slated regularly on that site and now there is only the Dromintee posters left (like Corn02) to try and defend the indefensible. The two O'Rourkes are cat. Full stop. AOR was so bad it was embarrassing. A joke. And to stay on for (what was it) 45 minutes? was even worse. First bad decision was playing Aidan; the second was leaving him on for 45 minutes.
In terms of Martin - apparently he was badly injured (according to Corn02). So WTF was he picked? and then to pick him and leave him in the corner for 15 minutes scratching is hole. Did you ever see the effort of a point in the first half - :o :o :o. And then to run out the field laughing - some commitment to the jersey that!
I have a stalker, I feel somewhat proud. You going to log on as Dee08 soon?
Quote from: BerfArmagh on July 08, 2009, 12:22:42 PM
So lads, in terms of addressing our scoring problems, are there any suggestions out there (from your own club) that you feel should be on the panel? As a Harps man, I believe Peadar Toal & definetly Gareth Swift have the talent to contribute something in the forwards
toal doesnt seem to have the commitment for it unfortunately. swift always impresses me when i see him play for harps def worth a squad place ahead of players like shane o neill imo
Quote from: corn02 on July 09, 2009, 03:42:19 PM
Quote from: Aoise on July 09, 2009, 03:33:32 PM
Quote from: fan01 on July 09, 2009, 01:50:39 PM
there is an awful lot of talk on this about the O'Rourkes. there are 13 other player on the armagh team why debate about two players, who has over the last couple of years shown great dedication and commitment to armagh. catch a grip
There is only so much talk about the O Rourkes because the county in its entirety was baffled by their inclusion on the team in the first place never mind the last one not getting taken off till there was only five bloody minutes left. Everyones talking about it because most people could point to ordinary club players playing better football than they produced last Saturday. It creates anger and a load of confusion which ultimately leads to people guessing and saying something about it. I've held my tongue on this issue for a few years now thinking that someone at county management level would catch themselves on regarding team selection. I'm glad people have now finally said how they feel. I don't think its the people on this board that should "catch a grip" as you say, but the Armagh county board and management squad and if they can't do it collectively then time for a wipe down with a clean slate being implemented at all quarters!
What a load of bollocks. Get off your high horse there sonny.
So the whole county were "baffled" by Martin's inclusion were they?
To put this into perspective and not sound like I'm ranting, the two O Rourkes should not have been played on Saturday full stop. I don't blame those two lads by the way Corn so I don't want to sound like I'm getting too personal - it wasn't their fault that they were on the field and yes were only doing what they were sent out for. But thats my point, they're way too below par for county standard and I don't know how you can't see that. It has been obvious for a few years now. If you would take the fact they are Dromintee men out of it would you be so quick to defend them?- honestly and I can understand your loyalty. As I said, those two fellas have been slated and I think its a disgrace that the manager of any team would put out two players with such limited capabilities and allow that to happen. Whatever is happening inside the camp is irrelevent to me, what is relevent however is the composition of the Armagh team and how the county is represented at senior level. I know you may think I'm exaggerating but yes, anyone I've been speaking to regarding the match have been baffled at their inclusion at all based on the Tyrone performance. You may not be hearing it Corn, but everyone else certainly is!
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 01:13:16 PM
If Paul McGaughey, Sarsfields stays injury free he would be there or thereabouts next year. Natural half forward, not a defender in the half forward line.
Again, Carville from Portadown would do a job.
carville good club player wont make it due to size, mcgaughey not good enough
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 04:00:08 PM
Quote from: full back on July 08, 2009, 01:19:34 PM
Quote from: eireogatron on July 08, 2009, 01:13:16 PM
If Paul McGaughey, Sarsfields stays injury free he would be there or thereabouts next year. Natural half forward, not a defender in the half forward line.
Again, Carville from Portadown would do a job.
Barnesy is the same type of player, only better, so he wouldnt be any better than we have
hes not better. and carville is the best free taker in the county as well.
some north armagh biasism i expect saw carville the otherweek miss 3 very scoreable frees. barnsey has made an impact for armagh seniors imo when given a chance would rate him as a better player though carville hasnt been given the same opportunity
Quote from: full back on July 09, 2009, 03:42:13 PM
Quote from: Aoise on July 09, 2009, 03:33:32 PM
There is only so much talk about the O Rourkes because the county in its entirety was baffled by their inclusion on the team in the first place
::) ::)
FFS
Martin was well entitled to his place in the starting 15
Aidan picked up Woods, which in theory should have worked but it was just one of those days for him
You are on saying how someone had a good game a few years ago & should be on the county panel, yet you are spouting about players who have proven the worth to the county in the past & they shouldnt be there....................
Thats just the point there FB - "In the past" and in my opinion the way too distant past. I remember sitting watching Armagh and Derry in Casement park a few years ago and tearing my hair out at MOR's performance then. IMO and this is where the problem lies in Armagh football no-one is "entitled" as you say to their place on the starting 15 on any team until a good management team has assessed their worth the day before a match based on many things but certainly not a performance from three years ago. Armagh have been too quick to hold on to players just because too many people feel entitled - don't make me laugh. The successful teams over the years have not adopted this approach, Tyrone and Kerry would think nothing of hauling one of their big names off if they were having a stinker - you've just summed up why I am so bloody frustrated in the first place. In your opinion FB, what disentitles you a place - retirement and nothing else? come on!
A couple of points. Other people here on the board had included MOR on their team, not just Corn, he had some good games in the League. I don't think his general inclusion in the panel or team is in question, his shooting isn't the best but I cannot think of anther Armagh player that gets stuck in like he does in getting dirty ball. That said he didn't look fully fit on Saturday, there may be question about taking players off or starting those that are carrying an injury.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 09, 2009, 08:12:29 PM
A couple of points. Other people here on the board had included MOR on their team, not just Corn, he had some good games in the League. I don't think his general inclusion in the panel or team is in question, his shooting isn't the best but I cannot think of anther Armagh player that gets stuck in like he does in getting dirty ball. That said he didn't look fully fit on Saturday, there may be question about taking players off or starting those that are carrying an injury.
I have no problem people saying he is good enough, but when people start questioning his commitment and saying he was laughing after kicking a wide, that's when I realise the posters are nothing but c***ts. Especially when playing through an injury.
Quote from: armaghniac on July 09, 2009, 08:12:29 PM
A couple of points. Other people here on the board had included MOR on their team, not just Corn, he had some good games in the League. I don't think his general inclusion in the panel or team is in question, his shooting isn't the best but I cannot think of anther Armagh player that gets stuck in like he does in getting dirty ball. That said he didn't look fully fit on Saturday, there may be question about taking players off or starting those that are carrying an injury.
OK I'll give him that he does get stuck in no doubt but God if we can't get a player in the whole of the county that has some skill and will also get stuck in, we're in a deep amount of s**t! Look, I'm not comfortable talking about any player like this but for me its just got to the stage where everyone has held their tongue for a long time and look whats happening. I'm not saying our entire performance was down to the two O'Rourke's it most certainly wasn't, but how anyone can make an argument that those two lads are county standard any more is beyond me. No doubt, that in their day they were good stalwarts for Armagh and I don't mean to disrespect that, but come on even the best should know when its time to hang up the boots and these two lads certainly were not the best, good - OK, but not the best. Thats where the manager comes in!
Quote from: corn02 on July 09, 2009, 08:19:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 09, 2009, 08:12:29 PM
A couple of points. Other people here on the board had included MOR on their team, not just Corn, he had some good games in the League. I don't think his general inclusion in the panel or team is in question, his shooting isn't the best but I cannot think of anther Armagh player that gets stuck in like he does in getting dirty ball. That said he didn't look fully fit on Saturday, there may be question about taking players off or starting those that are carrying an injury.
I have no problem people saying he is good enough, but when people start questioning his commitment and saying he was laughing after kicking a wide, that's when I realise the posters are nothing but c***ts. Especially when playing through an injury.
Well I wouldn't sink to any level Corn that would question a players committment and I agree I don't think anyone could ever judge that when their giving their all. My point is that I don't doubt the lads committment but he's just not good enough. Thats all I'm saying - its not a personal attack on the lad!
Flip, Ryan Henderson has aged rightly this year
http://www.psni.police.uk/index/h-district/larne.htm (http://www.psni.police.uk/index/h-district/larne.htm)
Quote from: Aoise on July 09, 2009, 08:25:34 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 09, 2009, 08:19:04 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 09, 2009, 08:12:29 PM
A couple of points. Other people here on the board had included MOR on their team, not just Corn, he had some good games in the League. I don't think his general inclusion in the panel or team is in question, his shooting isn't the best but I cannot think of anther Armagh player that gets stuck in like he does in getting dirty ball. That said he didn't look fully fit on Saturday, there may be question about taking players off or starting those that are carrying an injury.
I have no problem people saying he is good enough, but when people start questioning his commitment and saying he was laughing after kicking a wide, that's when I realise the posters are nothing but c***ts. Especially when playing through an injury.
Well I wouldn't sink to any level Corn that would question a players committment and I agree I don't think anyone could ever judge that when their giving their all. My point is that I don't doubt the lads committment but he's just not good enough. Thats all I'm saying - its not a personal attack on the lad!
No probs lad. That post was directed at DooReg anyway, not yourself.
Focusing on the performance of one or 2 individuals kinda misses the point imo. Armagh's lack of progress at the moment is down to bigger issues than this. The selection of Aidan O'Rourke to start the game was a surprise, and asking him to play as an orthodox back rather than a sweeper was a bigger surprise again. It was a gamble that didn't pay off. I would guess that Aidan would recognise that himself. It was up to the manager to make a switch or take him off early on when the writing was on the wall. Aidan has been a fantastic footballer for Armagh, a really good defender - he doesn't deserve to be singled out. Not too many players performed with distinction last saturday night. Personally i find Martin O'Rourke a very frustrating type of player - he mixes the very good with the very bad. But there's clear reasons (i.e. his ballwinning and tracking back) why he's in the team. Maybe that says something about the deficiencies in other sectors of the team - again, that's a bigger issue that the management had to address this year but it didn't happen.
Joe Kernan had MOR on his panel and so did PMcDonnell, those 2 guys certainly know a thing or two about Gaelic football. I reckon the 2 of them can't be wrong, having said all that when Armagh won Sam in 02 MOR couldn't get in the first 21 and he was in his prime but that was down to Armagh having exceptional footballers at that time. To me MOR is the type of player to come on for the last 15 mins and cause havoc when the opposition is tiring, so for me he is def worth having around and i don't think it's right for people to come on forums and slate guys who give their all to Armagh and their clubs. They should be shown more respect.
I suspect if Armagh had of won and MOR played well the same people slating him would have been the first to slap his back and said "Well done Martin" ::)
In my humble opinion, I feel that despite not having forwards of the calibre of marsden, oisin, John mac etc. we have better forwards in the county than played on Saturday. The system of play under p mc donnell has been very negative and designed at making Armagh hard to beat. This system is can only be defended when the players are not there, we have just been through the most successful period at club and county level (Senior and underage) and the talent in the county is simply not being managed correctly. It is inevitable that after any successful period most counties experience a lull but whats happening at the moment is wrong.
P McDonnell has not played his best team and despite winning an Ulster title in 2008, it merely papered over the cracks, as Benny Tierney pointed out in this weeks Irish News, playing with two forwards and expecting to win games is crazy and for that reason alone I feel P McDonnell will struggle to keep his job.
What is needed is a manager with a knowledge of football in Armagh and the courage to develop a system of play which will get Armagh back into the top 5 or 6 teams in Ireland and in with a chance of second All- Ireland. This could take 1, 2, 3, 4 years but if the system is correct and the players are responding the manger should be given time. Players were not happy with the system under P McDonnell.Peter Rafferty, John Rafferty, Jim McConville, Dairmuid Marsden, Geezer, Paul Grimley all should be considered both individually or collectively in a backroom team. Armagh would have beaten Monaghan with the following team; C McKinney A Mallon, B Donaghy, Paul kernan, Aaron Kernan, Finn Mo, C McKeever, D McKenna, KToner, T Kernan, Micheal O'Rourke B Mallon, S forker, RR Clarke, S McDonnell. There are players listed who with better man management would not have left the panel Conor Clarke and Peadar Toal would also have helped. Conor Clarke in particular has been the best wing forward in Armagh club league and championship for the past two seasons and has been given a fair crack!
Quote from: curvey on July 10, 2009, 12:34:42 AM
Joe Kernan had MOR on his panel and so did PMcDonnell, those 2 guys certainly know a thing or two about Gaelic football. I reckon the 2 of them can't be wrong, having said all that when Armagh won Sam in 02 MOR couldn't get in the first 21 and he was in his prime but that was down to Armagh having exceptional footballers at that time. To me MOR is the type of player to come on for the last 15 mins and cause havoc when the opposition is tiring, so for me he is def worth having around and i don't think it's right for people to come on forums and slate guys who give their all to Armagh and their clubs. They should be shown more respect.
I suspect if Armagh had of won and MOR played well the same people slating him would have been the first to slap his back and said "Well done Martin" ::)
Was the difference not that Joe had him on the panel and Peter had him on the team?
Quote from: full back on July 09, 2009, 03:42:13 PM
Quote from: Aoise on July 09, 2009, 03:33:32 PM
There is only so much talk about the O Rourkes because the county in its entirety was baffled by their inclusion on the team in the first place
::) ::)
FFS
Martin was well entitled to his place in the starting 15
Aidan picked up Woods, which in theory should have worked but it was just one of those days for him
You are on saying how someone had a good game a few years ago & should be on the county panel, yet you are spouting about players who have proven the worth to the county in the past & they shouldnt be there....................
This isn't anything personal against the O'Rourkes ... but when you pick an unfit man to mark another unfit man - O'Rourke on Woods - what does that say?
If he couldn't have marked Woods who was he going to mark? Freeman, Hanratty, Gillogly?
Could you have imagined that turkey shoot?
As someone said - they've given great service to Armagh over the years but they've lost a yard and gained a stone and just aren't at the races - along with a few others too.
Quote from: JMohan on July 10, 2009, 09:10:23 AM
Quote from: curvey on July 10, 2009, 12:34:42 AM
Joe Kernan had MOR on his panel and so did PMcDonnell, those 2 guys certainly know a thing or two about Gaelic football. I reckon the 2 of them can't be wrong, having said all that when Armagh won Sam in 02 MOR couldn't get in the first 21 and he was in his prime but that was down to Armagh having exceptional footballers at that time. To me MOR is the type of player to come on for the last 15 mins and cause havoc when the opposition is tiring, so for me he is def worth having around and i don't think it's right for people to come on forums and slate guys who give their all to Armagh and their clubs. They should be shown more respect.
I suspect if Armagh had of won and MOR played well the same people slating him would have been the first to slap his back and said "Well done Martin" ::)
Was the difference not that Joe had him on the panel and Peter had him on the team?
Not really, Marty played both games in 07, not sure about the resut but from about 05 I think he was a fairly regular starter.
Actually very much open to correction on this one because I couldn't be bothered checking.
To be fair I've no problem with either of them starting, AOR was obviously selected for his strength on Rory Woods - however, it was plain to see after the first ball went in, Aidan was going to get a roasting. He should then have been switched out the field, were he would be less likely to be exposed & could use his passing abilities (which again went missing on the night!), or replaced for a forward, moving Duffy back (Instead of replacing Lavery).
Marty should be started, along with 5 forwards! - He needs to be played in and around the middle. His best attribute his winning back the ball. He can't do that from further up the field. However, he had 2 bad games this year, & seemed to be struggling for fitness (Corn mentioned the injury) - so he could have been replaced a bit earlier also.
I find it amazing that Finn Mo, who basically started every game under Peter, was not used against Monaghan!?
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on July 10, 2009, 09:28:32 AM
I find it amazing that Finn Mo, who basically started every game under Peter, was not used against Monaghan!?
Thta has seemed to escape the radar GDS.
Apparently he wasn't on the panel? So either late injury or he threw the head up I would think.
Another point, night games don't seem to suit us either. We just about beat Fermanagh - but i can't think of too many other times we've won in the evening throw ins!
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on July 10, 2009, 09:47:29 AM
Another point, night games don't seem to suit us either. We just about beat Fermanagh - but i can't think of too many other times we've won in the evening throw ins!
Indeed, Saturdays in general don't help.
Galway 01, Fermanagh 04, Kerry 06, Derry 07, Wexford 08, Monghan 09.
As for winning evening games? ???
I remember beating Monaghan one evening, possibly 03 when Mallon goaled in the first couple of minutes, struggling after that.
People are missing the point about aor here. he was not, even in his prime, a corner back. to pick him to play in the full back line marking one of the quickest men on the field was complete lunacy. o'rourke has always been a fine defender and his positional play in the half back line in recent years enables him to nullify the pace of an opponent as well as contributing to armagh's attack. i'd imagine he'd have handled gallogly, finlay or clerkin well in the half back line and majorly improved our attacking platform.
Just one of the bewildering management approaches last saturday night that cost us greatly.
Quote from: The GAA on July 10, 2009, 10:43:35 AM
People are missing the point about aor here. he was not, even in his prime, a corner back. to pick him to play in the full back line marking one of the quickest men on the field was complete lunacy. o'rourke has always been a fine defender and his positional play in the half back line in recent years enables him to nullify the pace of an opponent as well as contributing to armagh's attack. i'd imagine he'd have handled gallogly, finlay or clerkin well in the half back line and majorly improved our attacking platform.
Just one of the bewildering management approaches last saturday night that cost us greatly.
Good point
And in his day he might have.
I just think even the last day he looked a stone off being able to handle any of them
Quote from: armaghniac on July 09, 2009, 08:12:29 PM
His shooting isn't the best but I cannot think of anther Armagh player that gets stuck in like he does in getting dirty ball.
Is that reason enough to keep him in the panel ? I'm more aggrieved at the management for picking and persisting with an injured player than i am at MOR. I think we have to say now that we will have a clear out of all the old guard and try and get as many of the new talent bedded in during the league and accept that its going to take a few years to make a team again. I'm surprised there has been no announcement yet from the management. (which worries me)
Quote from: haveaharp on July 10, 2009, 01:56:07 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on July 09, 2009, 08:12:29 PM
His shooting isn't the best but I cannot think of anther Armagh player that gets stuck in like he does in getting dirty ball.
Is that reason enough to keep him in the panel ? I'm more aggrieved at the management for picking and persisting with an injured player than i am at MOR. I think we have to say now that we will have a clear out of all the old guard and try and get as many of the new talent bedded in during the league and accept that its going to take a few years to make a team again. I'm surprised there has been no announcement yet from the management. (which worries me)
I thought is what Armagh did do in the league this year? Lol
McEvoy, Rogers,
McClelland, Rafferty, Martin, Shannon
O'Neill
O'Rourke, Henderson etc
Just seems when it came to the crunch McDonnell played safe (in his eyes), with the old hands.
Is McClelland injured? If he is good enough to play most of the league matches, then why was he dropped for Moriarty, then AOR?
Its possible McDonnell was looking at these players in extended runs in the league to give them a chance to show what they could do and decided they didn't show enough. personally i was confused at McClelland getting so much game time when he was playing poorly. didn't he get taken off v early against cork when things were going wrong?
Quote from: The GAA on July 10, 2009, 02:38:09 PM
Its possible McDonnell was looking at these players in extended runs in the league to give them a chance to show what they could do and decided they didn't show enough. personally i was confused at McClelland getting so much game time when he was playing poorly. didn't he get taken off v early against cork when things were going wrong?
I think you are right.
Actually looked back and that thread and ironically enough I was questioning why AOR was playing CHF against Cork! lol
Not saying McClelland was a cert, but just saying that in the league young/different players were tried.
For one reason or another most did not make an impact on the championship teams this year.
Quote from: corn02 on July 10, 2009, 09:41:50 AM
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on July 10, 2009, 09:28:32 AM
I find it amazing that Finn Mo, who basically started every game under Peter, was not used against Monaghan!?
Thta has seemed to escape the radar GDS.
Apparently he wasn't on the panel? So either late injury or he threw the head up I would think.
He was corn, he was warming up in front of the Gerry Arthurs for long periods of the game. I have seen MOR as an important part of the team for the last number of years as if you were an Armagh back in a number of matches I have watched he was the only man showing for the ball and played effectively as a link man along with his ball winning abilities. However, if he was injured as corn says that it's unfair on the lad to play him. He isn't done yet, if he can regain fitness he will be an integral part of the team again, but as GDS says he HAS to be the only defensive HF played. There's room for one and only one.
As regards AOR, he should've been taken off earlier, I did see the management's thinking in playing him, but unfortunately it didn't work out on the day but for posters to take the opportunity to have a pop at one of our AI winning heroes is a bit much. Remember his pass to Stevie in the 02 final for the winning point? We have had threads for best goal/point on the board, if there was a thread for the best pass ever it would get my vote. I'd say he will retire now but his career should be remembered for that type of moment not Saturday night.
in my opinion mcdonnell was afraid to drop any of the older more established players and the new ones on the panel were easy to drop. personally speaking i would have had Finn Mo and Chris Rafferty before aor and paul kernan in that backline as well. Finn mo has been there before and done well and rafferty has played well in his first year in the matches he played. both players are very mobile and would have brought an attacking element to the backline.
im still confused about why lavery was taken off so soon and why mor was playing whilst injured.
Quote from: mackers on July 10, 2009, 03:21:13 PM
Quote from: corn02 on July 10, 2009, 09:41:50 AM
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on July 10, 2009, 09:28:32 AM
I find it amazing that Finn Mo, who basically started every game under Peter, was not used against Monaghan!?
Thta has seemed to escape the radar GDS.
Apparently he wasn't on the panel? So either late injury or he threw the head up I would think.
He was corn, he was warming up in front of the Gerry Arthurs for long periods of the game. I have seen MOR as an important part of the team for the last number of years as if you were an Armagh back in a number of matches I have watched he was the only man showing for the ball and played effectively as a link man along with his ball winning abilities. However, if he was injured as corn says that it's unfair on the lad to play him. He isn't done yet, if he can regain fitness he will be an integral part of the team again, but as GDS says he HAS to be the only defensive HF played. There's room for one and only one.
As regards AOR, he should've been taken off earlier, I did see the management's thinking in playing him, but unfortunately it didn't work out on the day but for posters to take the opportunity to have a pop at one of our AI winning heroes is a bit much. Remember his pass to Stevie in the 02 final for the winning point? We have had threads for best goal/point on the board, if there was a thread for the best pass ever it would get my vote. I'd say he will retire now but his career should be remembered for that type of moment not Saturday night.
Ah right, cheers Mackers.
Quote from: mackers on July 10, 2009, 03:21:13 PM
He was corn, he was warming up in front of the Gerry Arthurs for long periods of the game. I have seen MOR as an important part of the team for the last number of years as if you were an Armagh back in a number of matches I have watched he was the only man showing for the ball and played effectively as a link man along with his ball winning abilities. However, if he was injured as corn says that it's unfair on the lad to play him. He isn't done yet, if he can regain fitness he will be an integral part of the team again, but as GDS says he HAS to be the only defensive HF played. There's room for one and only one.
As regards AOR, he should've been taken off earlier, I did see the management's thinking in playing him, but unfortunately it didn't work out on the day but for posters to take the opportunity to have a pop at one of our AI winning heroes is a bit much. Remember his pass to Stevie in the 02 final for the winning point? We have had threads for best goal/point on the board, if there was a thread for the best pass ever it would get my vote. I'd say he will retire now but his career should be remembered for that type of moment not Saturday night.
Yeah, i've been very uncomfortable reading some of the personal criticism directed at o'rourke this week. i suppose most of it has been from our "younger" brethren. he owes armagh feck all
I have the hieght of respect for the two O'Rourkes for their service to Armagh and as good hard honest footballers.... however ...
I think in fairness quite a bit of it has been impersonal and reserved to comments on performance and the game.
I don't think that just because you have an All Ireland medal your last performance is beyond comment?
If that was the case no Kerry man would ever have won and second All Ireland.
Quote from: JMohan on July 10, 2009, 04:54:45 PM
I have the hieght of respect for the two O'Rourkes for their service to Armagh and as good hard honest footballers.... however ...
I think in fairness quite a bit of it has been impersonal and reserved to comments on performance and the game.
I don't think that just because you have an All Ireland medal your last performance is beyond comment?
If that was the case no Kerry man would ever have won and second All Ireland.
Nothing wrong with commenting on a performance, but some of the tripe, DooReg in particular, was a joke.
Quote from: corn02 on July 10, 2009, 09:56:42 AM
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on July 10, 2009, 09:47:29 AM
Another point, night games don't seem to suit us either. We just about beat Fermanagh - but i can't think of too many other times we've won in the evening throw ins!
Indeed, Saturdays in general don't help.
Galway 01, Fermanagh 04, Kerry 06, Derry 07, Wexford 08, Monghan 09.
As for winning evening games? ???
I remember beating Monaghan one evening, possibly 03 when Mallon goaled in the first couple of minutes, struggling after that.
2006 I think.
Is Peadar Toal likely to ever return to the Armagh senior panel? He would be a great man to have in the half forward line.
Quote from: PatDaly on July 10, 2009, 09:54:14 PM
Is Peadar Toal likely to ever return to the Armagh senior panel? He would be a great man to have in the half forward line.
Unless Peadar gets a spurt of commitment in his mid to late 20's then he is consigned to the scrap heap, as talented a forward as there is the county, but it's not enough.......................
Quote from: PatDaly on July 10, 2009, 09:54:14 PM
Is Peadar Toal likely to ever return to the Armagh senior panel? He would be a great man to have in the half forward line.
Can we please stop flogging that one!
From last Sunday's Tribune; reminds me of what the Armagh Co Board let go!
Grimley's golden touch
Although he doesn't get all the plaudits, Kildare's second-in-command has been crucial in breathing life back into the Lilywhites
The setting might be a little different these days but you'll note it's the same old Paul Grimley. Still the big lump of a man that found himself doing his bit to chisel away at Armagh-Tyrone relations in Omagh in 1989 when the home dressing room was locked, when a pile-up ensued and when he clocked John Lynch without giving it a second thought. Still the soft voice that so easily and often deceives those that have never crossed his path. Still the inner steel that never bent to Joe Kernan and allowed one giant to always provide the other with an honest and invaluable opinion. Still under-appreciated by the masses. Still a number two.
He's sitting in a Newbridge hotel talking at length about the feats of his latest boss Kieran McGeeney. More precisely, when Kernan took over in Armagh he already had a long list of honours streaming behind him but Geezer was a rookie coming to Kildare. However the similarity is the man lurking in the shadows. Armagh players testified to what Grimley brought as an assistant, mentally in terms of his famed speaking and physically in terms of his ruthless training. Kildare players now are not humming the same tune yet strangely many people would fail to pick him from an identity parade and a google search won't get you past page eight.
"That I'm not the manager has been mentioned to me a number of times," he says, "and it has never been a problem for me. A lot of guys who were number twos went on to be managers but I've no great desire for that. I'm happy working with Kieran, I'm happy in Kildare. The most important thing for me is we work as a team. I only ever wanted one management job. I didn't get it. So I'm happy here."
The job he refers to is Armagh. By the end of 2006, himself and Kernan are said to have fallen out over what former players describe as the use of Stephen Kernan. The player's father felt he should start the Ulster semi-final with Fermanagh. Grimley thought it was too much pressure for the youngster and maintained he'd be better used as a substitute. It saw the disintegration of a management team that had conquered all before them but by 2008 Joe Kernan was gone and Grimley fancied his chances of being Armagh manager.
After spending a year coaching Cavan, he'd gotten word of the massive swell of support for his appointment from the clubs back home, quit the Cavan role because he thought it would be unfair on them to continue and then found out it was all for nothing. Peter McDonnell was given the nod and although he's keen to point out he has a lot of time for McDonnell and doesn't want in any way to play with an already fiery situation, it's impossible to tell his present without delving into his past.
"It hurt me immensely. Still to this day. I'm very sensitive about it. I'm not the most emotional person but if that was on a one-to-10 scale, it's 10. Without pointing fingers here it left a taste that might never go away. But I never turned around and gave the impression I had the right to get the job in front of any other man. I had to go through the proper procedures but the way certain individuals behaved towards me was the most upsetting. After years with them I deserved better.
"People came to me after and gave me each side of the story but I have to take that with a pinch of salt too because the main antagonists in this whole thing were once very close to me. One of the things that really put the nail in the coffin was that my brother rang me at 8.40 to tell me the announcement was on teletext. I hadn't been told at that stage. When something is very close to you and you've soldiered with people for so long and then you find the way they go about their business, it's very difficult. But I suppose this Kildare experience has helped the healing."
When McGeeney threatened to quit playing the game over what had gone on, Grimley asked for a quiet word and told him he'd be a long time retired and that he should go on. But minds had already been made up. And when McGeeney got wind of a job in Kildare, Grimley was the first person he contacted. The two came together to meet their new squad late in 2007 and Grimley noticed similarities with his first night meeting the Armagh panel way back in 2001.
"When I got together with Joe we met the fellas in Newry and I saw a bunch of players that were fed up coming second because they were winners. With Kildare, it was like that too. I was looking at a team that had been through a lot and maybe underachieved even more so than Armagh back then. It was packed with household names in a national sense and maybe I was looking at players who could have had medals but never got them. They'd a good way with them, well-mannered, good attitude, prepared to listen and prepared to work.
"But for myself and Kieran and Niall [Carew, selector] the first year was as much a learning curve for us as it was for them adapting to our way of thinking. When we got relegated in the league, we realised it was going to take two or three years to get where we wanted to go. When we lost to Wicklow in the championship we realised we were trying to make an Ulster team out of them and that model doesn't work everywhere. These guys had their own identity and qualities that the Armagh team hadn't. We had to get the common denominator, weld it all together and create a team that was capable of going to the top and staying there. We're probably on the second leg of that journey."
Oisín McConville is convinced Grimley's two favourite words in the English language are tackle and grid, the latter referring to the three-on-three games he set up in small squares that gave Armagh their granite edge. Grimley began to see that same intensity in training this year with Kildare and is convinced they now have the honesty to succeed and no longer have the hiding places to hold them back. His only surprise is how quickly it's all happened.
Then again, he shouldn't be. While the northern attitude may have failed on the pitch for Kildare, it's helped them endlessly off it. Grimley and McGeeney introduced a fine of €20 for any player not in the dressing room a half an hour prior to start time; they brought in former rugby international Willie Anderson to talk to the players, just as Armagh had done in the late 1990s, and were forced to admit their faults, strengths and opinions on teammates openly; they went out more often; they had a Christmas party this year in Time, Naas; they even began a charity white-collar boxing tournament.
"With me and Kieran, he'd ask me about certain things and I'd give him an opinion straight up. We mightn't like what we say to each other but it's always straight and the one thing about McGeeney is there's no behind backs, he doesn't talk with both sides of his mouth. All that makes the friendship extremely strong and a management team really strong. And all these things we did, it was to help the players bond, get their friendship really strong. It has helped us along, that togetherness and the players now socialise together which is fine. It's led to harder training, honesty from guys on the field, they are honest with each other. Everything is going really well."
In fact just about the only thing Kildare have been troubled by is referees. After the 27-8 free-count against Wexford, they invited that day's official Cormac Reilly to a training session. "The best thing that should be happening is giving referees a wider role. They should be coming to training sessions. The likes of this big game on Sunday, why couldn't he come into us on a Tuesday and them on a Thursday, give all the players a rundown of what he expects? And I do believe referees on the back of that should be semi-professional."
Perhaps one for the future, but as for today? "I think these boys have started something off, have turned a corner no matter what happens on Sunday. I feel within the next five years these guys have All Ireland potential. My job is to support Kieran and Kieran will stay on here as long as they want him. We got three years, it's up next year and we'll see from there but this is no stepping stone for some other job. This is a side we want to take to the top."
Belief, passion, success and a surge towards the top. It's still the same old Paul Grimley alright.
emackenna@tribune.ie
July 12, 2009
This is what we could have had............... ::)
I've noticed from postings here and on OC that a lot of people seem to want to give Grimley credit for all that was good about Armagh in the JK era but he's clear of blame for the defensiveness and the shit tactics. You cant have it both ways lads.
He's hurting pretty bad over Armagh, and that's sad to see. Would it be fair to assume that the unnamed person Grimley is referring to in that article is Joe Kernan?! Things should not have turned out like that.
It was like a Holy Trinity at one stage - Kernan Grimley and McCuslkey
Have they all fallen out?
Quote from: bennydorano on July 16, 2009, 05:24:55 PM
I've noticed from postings here and on OC that a lot of people seem to want to give Grimley credit for all that was good about Armagh in the JK era but he's clear of blame for the defensiveness and the shit tactics. You cant have it both ways lads.
Benny, there's no doubt that Paul Grimley's contribution to Armagh success was enormous and less doubt that he'd have done a better job this year and last than the present incumbent. However I don't think anyone is suggesting that he never made any mistakes; of course he did as did JK!
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 16, 2009, 06:42:32 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 16, 2009, 05:24:55 PM
I've noticed from postings here and on OC that a lot of people seem to want to give Grimley credit for all that was good about Armagh in the JK era but he's clear of blame for the defensiveness and the shit tactics. You cant have it both ways lads.
Benny, there's no doubt that Paul Grimley's contribution to Armagh success was enormous and less doubt that he'd have done a better job this year and last than the present incumbent. However I don't think anyone is suggesting that he never made any mistakes; of course he did as did JK!
Firstly, lets not forget the one overriding difference between the JK era and the past 2 years of McDonnell - the players at their disposal. I doubt Grimley would have achieved anything more tangible than McDonnell has - 1 USFC. Secondly, I cant ever recall one post holding Grimley accountable for anything negative during the JK era.
By the time that the Armagh managers job becomes available again, Aidan O'Rourke might be in the reckoning?
Quote from: JMohan on July 16, 2009, 05:50:38 PM
It was like a Holy Trinity at one stage - Kernan Grimley and McCuslkey
Have they all fallen out?
No, I saw Grimley and McCluskey in the Armagh City Hotel last Friday afternoon.
Not a chance. based on what?
Benny - Grimley is widely blamed for the 11th hour change of tactics before the 2003 final is he not?
Quote from: JMohan on July 16, 2009, 05:50:38 PM
It was like a Holy Trinity at one stage - Kernan Grimley and McCuslkey
Have they all fallen out?
McCloskey would still be fairly tight with Joe also, in the row behind me in Clones in the Monaghan match.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 16, 2009, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 16, 2009, 06:42:32 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 16, 2009, 05:24:55 PM
I've noticed from postings here and on OC that a lot of people seem to want to give Grimley credit for all that was good about Armagh in the JK era but he's clear of blame for the defensiveness and the shit tactics. You cant have it both ways lads.
Benny, there's no doubt that Paul Grimley's contribution to Armagh success was enormous and less doubt that he'd have done a better job this year and last than the present incumbent. However I don't think anyone is suggesting that he never made any mistakes; of course he did as did JK!
Firstly, lets not forget the one overriding difference between the JK era and the past 2 years of McDonnell - the players at their disposal. I doubt Grimley would have achieved anything more tangible than McDonnell has - 1 USFC. Secondly, I cant ever recall one post holding Grimley accountable for anything negative during the JK era.
Dunno about that Benny, Paul Grimley has been successful no matter where he has coached both on the club and county stage. People only thought we were negative under Kernan but I don't remember us playing HBs in the HFs on a consistent basis as we have under Peter McDonnell. Last year's USFC can't be held up as a defence of McDonnell's management, it has to be the softest Ulster title in the history of the USFC. Look at the teams we beat and how they have performed since.
Quote from: stpauls on July 16, 2009, 10:12:07 PM
Quote from: JMohan on July 16, 2009, 05:50:38 PM
It was like a Holy Trinity at one stage - Kernan Grimley and McCuslkey
Have they all fallen out?
No, I saw Grimley and McCluskey in the Armagh City Hotel last Friday afternoon.
Must be taking him down to help Kildare next!
Quote from: mackers on July 16, 2009, 10:33:32 PM
Quote from: JMohan on July 16, 2009, 05:50:38 PM
It was like a Holy Trinity at one stage - Kernan Grimley and McCuslkey
Have they all fallen out?
McCloskey would still be fairly tight with Joe also, in the row behind me in Clones in the Monaghan match.
I think there is talk he was interested in either the Armagh or Monaghan job
Quote from: mackers on July 16, 2009, 10:33:32 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 16, 2009, 08:23:09 PM
Quote from: Sandy Hill on July 16, 2009, 06:42:32 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 16, 2009, 05:24:55 PM
I've noticed from postings here and on OC that a lot of people seem to want to give Grimley credit for all that was good about Armagh in the JK era but he's clear of blame for the defensiveness and the shit tactics. You cant have it both ways lads.
Benny, there's no doubt that Paul Grimley's contribution to Armagh success was enormous and less doubt that he'd have done a better job this year and last than the present incumbent. However I don't think anyone is suggesting that he never made any mistakes; of course he did as did JK!
Firstly, lets not forget the one overriding difference between the JK era and the past 2 years of McDonnell - the players at their disposal. I doubt Grimley would have achieved anything more tangible than McDonnell has - 1 USFC. Secondly, I cant ever recall one post holding Grimley accountable for anything negative during the JK era.
Dunno about that Benny, Paul Grimley has been successful no matter where he has coached both on the club and county stage. People only thought we were negative under Kernan but I don't remember us playing HBs in the HFs on a consistent basis as we have under Peter McDonnell. Last year's USFC can't be held up as a defence of McDonnell's management, it has to be the softest Ulster title in the history of the USFC. Look at the teams we beat and how they have performed since.
It's hard to know how any one else would have handled the problem ... someone else might have done better ....
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 16, 2009, 10:12:52 PM
Not a chance. based on what?
Aidan O'Rourke has done well enough as Queens manager?
completely different ball game
Quote from: Orior on July 17, 2009, 08:44:50 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 16, 2009, 10:12:52 PM
Not a chance. based on what?
Aidan O'Rourke has done well enough as Queens manager?
are you Aidan O'Rourke?
mutterings from some corners are that aidan was running the show this year anyway.. and look how that panned out.
Quote from: qub la la la on July 17, 2009, 05:58:22 PM
mutterings from some corners are that aidan was running the show this year anyway.. and look how that panned out.
Mutterings from some corners are that the Judge was running the show this year anyway...and look how that panned out (although we did get more dodgy line balls in our favour though).
Of course, like your post, I am simply basing this on unsubstansiated rumour, but it seems that is ok to do on here.
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 16, 2009, 10:12:52 PM
Benny - Grimley is widely blamed for the 11th hour change of tactics before the 2003 final is he not?
Couldn't be that widely blamed, it's the first time I've heard that it was his doing.
Quote from: bennydorano on July 18, 2009, 07:33:52 PM
Quote from: DuffleKing on July 16, 2009, 10:12:52 PM
Benny - Grimley is widely blamed for the 11th hour change of tactics before the 2003 final is he not?
Couldn't be that widely blamed, it's the first time I've heard that it was his doing.
Dito.
Noticed again today that in the promotion shots for the Ulster Council this year C McKeever is wearing an Armagh strip with a number 12 on it, after seeing our tactics this year I am starting to wonder if McDonnell was always going to be planning on playing a half back in the forward line
Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 02, 2009, 06:37:39 PM
Quote from: judas1 on July 02, 2009, 04:36:42 PM
You sure about this Rufus, i asked a few people round the camp and they told me team wasnt announced yet and wouldn't be until 9pm this evening. Your source??
Only passing on what I was told, and it came from what I thought would be a reliable source!
Do messengers still get shot around here? :o
C'mon Rufus. Spill the beans.