Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

[stibhan]

So, it's been 24 hours? Any word?

You'd expect something by now all right.

They arrested him at about half eight yesterday according to the twitter account. In these cases if you hold someone without the due process of an extension the law is fairly clear...

[Tubberman]

Can be held for 48 hours according to RTE

[muppet]

So, it's been 24 hours? Any word?

You'd expect something by now all right.

This is from Peter Robinson:

"I cannot say whether Mr Adams will be charged or released, whether he will be held for a further period, whether even if charged he might be convicted .

"But what I can say is that it strengthens our political process in Northern Ireland for people to know that no-one is above the law - everyone is equal under the law and everyone is equally subject to the law."

I prefer Gárdaí speak.

'A man is helping Gárdaí with their enquiries."

[Tony Baloney]

Can be held for 48 hours according to RTE

Yes was on local news at 10.30 there that he can be held in Antrim custody suite until 8ish tomorrow evening.

[Nally Stand]

Nally Stand. Lets be clear.

Gerry McCabe died protecting people from terrorist scumbags and Jean McConville was murdered by terrorist scumbags.

These are indisputable facts.

Who, exactly, the scumbags were is a matter for investigation. However, whoever they were, somebody did murder these people. Nothing you say will change that fact.

And this is your justification for their elevation above all other victims (which has been my issue all along)? You do realise they were not the only two victims of the conflict?

[trileacman]

Nally Stand. Lets be clear.

Gerry McCabe died protecting people from terrorist scumbags and Jean McConville was murdered by terrorist scumbags.

These are indisputable facts.

Who, exactly, the scumbags were is a matter for investigation. However, whoever they were, somebody did murder these people. Nothing you say will change that fact.

And this is your justification for their elevation above all other victims (which has been my issue all along)? You do realise they were not the only two victims of the conflict?

So unless we punish everyone involved we should punish none? That what you're saying.

[Nally Stand]

Nally Stand. Lets be clear.

Gerry McCabe died protecting people from terrorist scumbags and Jean McConville was murdered by terrorist scumbags.

These are indisputable facts.

Who, exactly, the scumbags were is a matter for investigation. However, whoever they were, somebody did murder these people. Nothing you say will change that fact.

And this is your justification for their elevation above all other victims (which has been my issue all along)? You do realise they were not the only two victims of the conflict?

So unless we punish everyone involved we should punish none? That what you're saying.

Jaysus between you, muppet and mike do any of ye actually read my posts at all or so you just insist on putting words in my mouth and then try to have an argument based on them?

For the umpteenth time, my issue is not with the victims or investigations into victims but is with the hierarchy of victims and the fact that, in the 26 counties there are two names elevated waayyy above any others by people who would struggle to name one other victim, so my argument has nothing to do with "punishment" as you misleadingly suggest. Jerry McCabe's killers for instance, have been punished. They have been caught, tried and served sentences. However, it his his name along with Jean McConville's which continues to be dragged up for political gain (see Enda Kenny's response to a question from Gerry Adams on welfare reform in a recent Dáil debate, for instance). I follow enough political forums and follow enough media to see that in the 26 counties, when discussion turns to the six counties and the conflict, that despite over 3,500 deaths, the same two names are most commonly dragged up before any others. Now before you start slabbering and putting words in my mouth, let me again make it clear: I have no problem with McCabe/McConville cases being discussed, but I do have a problem with the countless others being ignored or forgotten or sadly, being seen as less "useful", because that's what happens in a hierarchy. A few months ago on Prime Time, for instance, we were treated to the spectacle of the chairman of FG dragging up the usual two names and going on to tell us that the IRA murdered over 3,000 people during the conflict. So the Chairman of the largest government partner in the state, speaking on the national broadcaster, presented as fact the claim that all the victims of the conflict were killed by the IRA, and yet presenter didn't even feel it important enough to clarify that the IRA in fact didn't carry out all the killings of the conflict. It was a narrative that was permitted to go unchallenged. At the time of the SPAD bill, Joe Byrne typified the mindset which is so prevalent in the 26 counties when he stated: "the innocent victims need to be addressed, in particular the innocent victims of the Provisional IRA". What does that day to the families of state/loyalist murders? That their lost family members aren't as important as others. How often do you read the name of Jerry McCabe (a case solved long ago) compared to the name of Joan Connolly for instance, who's family have as recently as this week, been denied access to an investigation into her death?



Another article from Jude Collins, echoing my points from above:
http://www.judecollins.com/2014/03/jean-mcconvilles-death-one-horror-among-many/
"Why, I wonder, of all the horrors that the Troubles visited on us, is the death of  Jean McConville  receiving such attention? Perhaps because she was a woman and a mother of ten children. Perhaps because her body was not discovered for decades after her death. Perhaps because it seems so horrible that a person would be killed for helping a dying soldier. There was an investigation into claims that she had been passing information secretly to the authorities – that is, spying – but an investigation found no evidence of this. She was killed, as were many others, by the IRA. Whether it was because she comforted a dying soldier, or because the IRA thought she was passing information to the authorities, seems to matter little now.

Her death certainly was a cruel and brutal one. As were so many other deaths during the Troubles. From the many hundreds, here are a few.

 

"When they killed my darling, they killed me too. Despite my outward appearance I am dead, so this seemed a sensible solution. Let me also tell you, Mum and Dad, how very much I love you and how very sorry I am for the pain I've caused."

- Note left by girl who took her own life after loyalists killed her boyfriend

 

"As I bury my son, both of you bury your pride. I don't want any mother or father going through what my wife and I went through today. Please stop this. Bury your pride with my boy. To those who've done this, I and my family forgive you."

- Father of Catholic man shot by loyalists

 

"I took hold of the other Catholic and set myself up as judge, jury and executioner. I beat him to death with a breeze block in an alleyway off the Shankill."

 

"Nobody, nobody, has ever, ever, ever said to me, 'I'm sorry about your eldest son, your first-born son, I am sorry that I killed your son'."

- Mother of Derry youth knocked down by an Army vehicle

 

 "The despair would hurt you now and again. I'll never get rid of her name – she wrote it anywhere, inside the airing cupboard and on books. I was changing a pillowcase and she had written her name on the inside of it."

- Mother of 14-year-old schoolgirl killed by a plastic bullet.

 

And then there are the dozens of deaths catalogued by Anne Cadwallader in her bookLethal Allies, where innocent people were killed by loyalist gangs working in conjunction with British military authorities.

None of this is to take away an iota from the suffering caused by Jean McConville's death or the suffering passed onto her ten children. But so harrowing are  even the few cases I've instanced above, I can't rid myself of the suspicion that Mrs McConville's death has been plucked out from the hundreds of other heart—crushing stories because it can be used as a political weapon. Do those who shout loudest about the pity of her lonely death secretly rejoice in the political club it provides?

Perhaps I'm wrong – I don't know enough about the case. But if I am, the question remains: why her?"

[trileacman]

You're making stuff up again there Nally, you were the man responsible for bringing up McCabe (on page 138), there was no mention of him on the previous 5 pages of discussion until you brought it up. We were discussing the McConville case as we're entitled to do given the recent events and had made no mention of him until you dragged it up. So therefore you can't blame us for dragging up McCabe to cost the Shinners precious votes in the Dail, that's completely false.

If a discussion broke on here about Joan Connolly, the hunger strikers or bloody Sunday you can be damn sure that you wouldn't wade in with the line "lets not have a hierarchy of victims, lets give a mention to McCabe, McConville, etc". You'd be there Brit-bashing for your dead worth. So to come into a discussion on McConville and to straight off the bat start crying about a hierarchy is hypocritical. You're main objection to the discussion is that it portrays the IRA in a bad light and the "hierarchy" claim is just a convenient excuse to hide it behind.

I wonder at all those hunger striker marches and IRA commemorations do they stick to your principles of preventing a vicitim hierarchy? If I every wander close enough to one I might find out, but I'd be fairly sure they don't, just like all the paratrooper memorials or Orange Order marches. Insulated in your own wee worlds we're it's all "we were right and they were wrong" and that's my I have nothing but contempt for both schools of thought.

[AQMP]

So, it's been 24 hours? Any word?

You'd expect something by now all right.

As I posted earlier (keep up everyone!) Adams can be held for a second 24 hours on the say so of a police superintendent, so effectively he can be held for up to 48 hours.

However I have to say (with my paranoid Nordie head) that the longer he is held it does make me wonder, do they have something on him other than the Boston Tapes that we don't know about?  Maybe they have or maybe they just want to make him stew for a while.  My gut feeling initially was that he would have been released sometime last night.  If they go to a judge today to extend his detention then Adams might be in s-h-1-t.

[orangeman]

Choreography lads.

[muppet]

You're making stuff up again there Nally, you were the man responsible for bringing up McCabe (on page 138), there was no mention of him on the previous 5 pages of discussion until you brought it up. We were discussing the McConville case as we're entitled to do given the recent events and had made no mention of him until you dragged it up. So therefore you can't blame us for dragging up McCabe to cost the Shinners precious votes in the Dail, that's completely false.

If a discussion broke on here about Joan Connolly, the hunger strikers or bloody Sunday you can be damn sure that you wouldn't wade in with the line "lets not have a hierarchy of victims, lets give a mention to McCabe, McConville, etc". You'd be there Brit-bashing for your dead worth. So to come into a discussion on McConville and to straight off the bat start crying about a hierarchy is hypocritical. You're main objection to the discussion is that it portrays the IRA in a bad light and the "hierarchy" claim is just a convenient excuse to hide it behind.

I wonder at all those hunger striker marches and IRA commemorations do they stick to your principles of preventing a vicitim hierarchy? If I every wander close enough to one I might find out, but I'd be fairly sure they don't, just like all the paratrooper memorials or Orange Order marches. Insulated in your own wee worlds we're it's all "we were right and they were wrong" and that's my I have nothing but contempt for both schools of thought.

Very good post.

Talk of a hierarchy of victims is merely obfuscation and diversion tactics. It certainly isn't a credible argument to anyone on the outside looking in at SF.

[Nally Stand]

Take your head our of your ass would you Trileac. I've spoken numerous times about Jean McConville and the disappeared in general and registered my total disgust at what happened to them. You are attempting to refute my argument that there is a hierarchy of victims in the 26 counties with McConville/McCabe at the top and the only evidence you provide is what I posted to this thread yesterday and another instance of you putting words in my mouth by suggesting I accused you of something. I did not. You are narrowing your entire argument down to this thread. Read a book, read a newspaper, watch the news, watch the chat shows...when discussion arises about the conflict you can bet your house and your life savings that there are two specific names that will crop up more than any others. My issue is not with the mentioning of these two names, but with the fact that the continued focus on two "useful" victims, means the total ignoring of others. If you travelled around the 26 counties and asked everyone you saw to name two victims of the conflict, I'd happily put my life savings on it that of over 3,000 victims, most people would rehash the same two names. On another thread about the disappeared, I was the first poster to respond to the opening post, where I expressed sympathy for the families and a hope that they find their loved ones (and was roundly abused for doing so). I have repeatedly spoken of my disgust as the disappearing of victims bodies. So your attempts at pigeon holing me are simply wrong. Gerry Adams arrest on Wednesday was a political move. That much is clear. It was timed to coincide with two elections and as such, I was well within my rights to speak about the overuse for political purposes of two victims names above other victims. Tell me, what would your excuse be for Joe Byrne's speak?

What a coincidence...over 3,000 victims and look at the two names you managed to pull out:
http://gaaboard.com/board/index.php?topic=23586.msg1265601#msg1265601

[muppet]

Take your had our of your ass would you Trileac. I've spoken numerous times about Jean McConville and the disappeared in general and registered my total disgust at what happened to them. You are attempting to refute my argument that there is a hierarchy of victims in the 26 counties with McConville/McCabe at the top and the only evidence you provide is what I posted to this thread yesterday and another instance of you putting words in my mouth by suggesting I accused you of something. I did not. You are narrowing your entire argument down to this thread. Read a book, read a newspaper, watch the news, watch the chat shows...when discussion arises about the conflict you can bet your house and your life savings that there are two specific names that will crop up more than any others. My issue is not with the mentioning of these two names, but with the fact that the continued focus on two "useful" victims, means the total ignoring of others. If you travelled around the 26 counties and asked everyone you saw to name two victims of the conflict, I'd happily put my life savings on it that of over 3,000 victims, most people would rehash the same two names. On another thread about the disappeared, I was the first poster to respond to the opening post, where I expressed sympathy for the families and a hope that they find their loved ones (and was roundly abused for doing so). I have repeatedly spoken of my disgust as the disappearing of victims bodies. So your attempts at pigeon holing me are simply wrong. Gerry Adams arrest on Wednesday was a political move. That much is clear. It was timed to coincide with two elections and as such, I was well within my rights to speak about the overuse for political purposes of two victims names above other victims. Tell me, what would your excuse be for Joe Byrne's speak?

If you come from where I come from, the first name would probably be - John Morley. Your life savings would be gone.

Jerry McCabe would certainly be high on the list, Jean McConville's name means very little in the context of the 3000 other victims. Pat Finucane would also be a name people would recall. Most people remember the Warrington bombing for the hideous death of the 2 children. They probably wouldn't remember the names but if I said Jonathon Ball and Tim Parry it might ring a bell.

People of a certain age might say the Miami Showband victims while those of a rugby bent might mention what happened Nigel Carr. Others will remember Loughlinisland because iirc that was the one where the victims were watching the ROI soccer team in the World Cup.

All hideous. A left families grieving.

[AZOffaly]

True muppet, and God knows I am fairly far apart from Nally on most things related to the situation up the north, but I do think he has a point here. Not to denigrate or demean the Jean McConville case, but why is her case by far the most notorious out of all the 'unsolved' murders committed by both sides. You could ask the same question about Pat Finnucane. And maybe the answer is obvious. Pat Finnucane's murder has the pawprints of the British State all over it, and Jean McConville's may have the taint of the Sinn Fein leadership. But the reason why they are made more public, and more famous in my opinion is because of the political gain that can be realised from hammering the other person/people on it. I think Nally is spot on there.

[muppet]

True muppet, and God knows I am fairly far apart from Nally on most things related to the situation up the north, but I do think he has a point here. Not to denigrate or demean the Jean McConville case, but why is her case by far the most notorious out of all the 'unsolved' murders committed by both sides. You could ask the same question about Pat Finnucane. And maybe the answer is obvious. Pat Finnucane's murder has the pawprints of the British State all over it, and Jean McConville's may have the taint of the Sinn Fein leadership. But the reason why they are made more public, and more famous in my opinion is because of the political gain that can be realised from hammering the other person/people on it. I think Nally is spot on there.

Tell me, if somehow Enda Kenny's name was connected to an atrocity in the troubles, do you think the Shinners would ever mention it?